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Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class,

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a production of I Heart Radio, Hello

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and Happy Friday. I'm Holly Fry

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and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. Tracy,

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we talked about eponymous foods this week.

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What a fun one to research. They're

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not always fun, so this one was like a breath

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of fresh air. Although

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I feel a little bit like I was playing

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a culinary version of two

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truths and a lie because

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I love two of these items, and I

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bet I think the third Smith

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Apple they I don't like tart and

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bitter things at all, so that's what it is.

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I also have um.

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I mentioned at the top of the episode this

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strange thing that my

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my relation to Grannie Smith Apple's was

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very confused for a long time because

1:03

I knew that that was the name of a food. And

1:05

at one point when we lived in the Pacific

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Northwest and I was still quite a small kid,

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we had this tree that

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grew over our driveway and

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my mom would

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just reach out and pick apples off of

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this apple tree as she drove down the driveway

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and just eat them while she drove. She kept

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a shaker of salt in the car. She

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liked to salt her apples. She would just

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eat these apples, and she called them

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Granny Smith apples. They were not Granny

1:33

Smith apples. They were crab apples, um,

1:36

which to me they were very bitter and gross.

1:39

Um. But she loved them, and so I

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remember when I first was actually exposed

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to a Granny Smith apple, I

1:46

was like, what is this kind of some kind of a radiated

1:48

magic version, like it's huge? What is this?

1:51

Um? No, that's a Granny Smith apple, you fool?

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And I was just I had been very confused by misinformation

1:56

in my child. We

2:00

had um, I think three apple

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trees that were situated

2:04

at the end of the plot where we grew all

2:06

of our vegetables. And I

2:09

have no idea what

2:12

variety of apples these were,

2:15

but I honestly don't remember any

2:17

of them ever producing what

2:20

seems like an edible apple. Um.

2:25

They were very hard and very small

2:27

and like it's I

2:29

have no I have no idea what the thought process

2:32

was in planting them, and whether

2:34

they were intended to be like eating

2:37

apples that just never produced well, or

2:39

if they were intended to be like crab

2:41

apples that we would use for some other purpose. Total

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mystery. My other big memory

2:46

is that as a child, I in my

2:48

memory there were exactly two

2:51

types of apples available at the grocery

2:53

store, and they were Red Delicious and Granny

2:55

Smith. And those were your apple choices. That

2:57

was it. You have red ones or green ones. And

3:00

so as I got

3:02

more into my adulthood and learned

3:05

there were all these other kinds of

3:07

apples also that

3:09

are now more widely available

3:12

in grocery stores and now at our farmer's

3:14

market in the fall, here'll be like here seventeen

3:16

different types of apples. It's it's

3:19

very exciting to me. Well, and some of

3:21

that is because the field of apples

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has expanded right as people have cultivated

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them and crossed some apples

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with other kinds. There are a lot

3:30

more apples, um, and apple varieties

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than they there were when we were kids.

3:35

There are certainly some more naturally occurring

3:37

ones that exist that are

3:39

just not mass produced, so we there's

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a whole wealth of them that we just haven't encountered yet.

3:43

Probably. But um, yeah,

3:46

I similarly was like red apples or

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green or yellow apples, those are the options,

3:51

um, And I just knew that the green ones

3:54

were always tart, and I didn't want

3:56

any pant um. I

3:58

am also not big a

4:00

fan of apple pie. Oh yeah, I

4:02

don't have anything against it. I'm not like that apple

4:05

pie, but like in the realm of pies,

4:07

it's one of the I'm not a big fruit pie

4:09

person in general. I

4:11

like something more custody, like a pie

4:14

or a sweet potato pie

4:16

or you know, any of those that have that kind of texture.

4:19

Like yes, um, fruit

4:21

pies less so, even though they're often so spectacularly

4:24

beautiful. How do you feel about like the

4:26

fruit tarts that have like

4:28

a custard base with the fruit on top. Those

4:31

are okay? And I did It was

4:33

through um, you know French

4:35

food that I started to like, like the

4:38

smaller little tarts and like a

4:40

pear tart forget it. I love those things. Um.

4:42

That often though has to do with like spectacularly

4:45

buttery crust. Oh yeah,

4:48

I'm here for the bread component, but I will

4:50

eat the fruit. That's fine. Um.

4:53

I can imagine listeners

4:55

who have a long familiarity

4:57

with our show wondering whether

4:59

they and expect Nellie

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Melba to be an upcoming Saturday

5:04

classic, because she is

5:06

the namesake of Melba Toast, which we talk

5:08

about in that episode she inspired

5:11

Augusta Scoffier to make a couple of different

5:14

things. Yeah. So if you're thinking, hey,

5:16

is that what's going to come out, the

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answer is sadly no, because

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there is a window of time back in the

5:23

history of our show where, for

5:26

unclear mysterious reasons, the

5:28

high quality sound file of

5:30

the recording never got in

5:33

the archive, and that's one of them. And

5:35

we have re released a few episodes

5:37

where we've only had a lower quality version,

5:40

but it's it's not something that we try

5:42

to do often because it's just sounds

5:45

a lot different from what the show

5:47

sounds like now. Yeah, and in

5:49

the case of Dame Nelly Melbour, that was two

5:51

episodes, so that would be committing to two

5:54

episodes that don't sound great on Saturday's. Um.

5:58

So yeah, I'm just not as ideal. Uh.

6:00

There are lots of foods named for people, So,

6:02

like I said, this could be an ongoing fun thing

6:05

that we do periodically. Um.

6:07

There was also another detail that I wanted

6:09

to mention. It was not really germane

6:12

enough to anything

6:15

for me to include it in

6:17

the episode, and

6:20

that is that one

6:23

of the accounts that

6:26

Ignacio gave of that

6:28

first creation of nachos.

6:31

He mentioned that the women that

6:34

came to hang out and

6:36

and eat and asked for a snack, we're

6:38

drinking Chicos. And I

6:40

was like, and I was reading this on like a newspaper

6:43

archive things, so I'm like, is does

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that really say Chico? Does it say something

6:48

else? What is a Chico? I

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did not know about this drink. I'm

6:53

certainly gonna make one. Um,

6:55

it's tequila and BlackBerry

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liqueur was simple syrup

7:00

and lemon juice in a little club soda on top,

7:03

and it sounds so delicious and refreshing

7:05

to me. Even though I'm not a big tequila

7:07

person, I'm right with you on all of the

7:09

things you just said. Yeah,

7:12

Um, I also think that would be great

7:14

if you subbed out another

7:16

spirit for tequila. If you don't like it, can

7:18

make that a vodka be great. Possibly

7:21

jin also great. It

7:24

that sounds like it would be good with gin in it, honestly,

7:26

especially some of the gin's that have some more

7:28

fruity notes in there. Yeah, that BlackBerry

7:30

liqueur is going to bring out some cool stuff. But

7:32

um, I just was like, what is a Chico?

7:35

How did I not know about this? So

7:37

now I'm all excited about that, and that's

7:39

a different thing. I don't know what that's named for

7:42

at all. I only found the recipe and

7:44

it's also called sometimes a couple of other things

7:46

that include the word chico in it, but that

7:49

one got my attention. In her

7:52

I also ate about probably

7:55

seven plates of nachos while researching this episode.

7:57

Yeah, you texted me a picture of not

8:00

chows week I

8:02

did. I was like, um, Brian,

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we're going to the store and we're getting nacho ingredients.

8:07

It's like, okay, that was a very hard

8:09

sell. Not um.

8:11

Yeah, and the night nacho several times this

8:13

weekend, uh

8:18

the summer before last, pre pandemic

8:21

times, we had some family

8:24

come and stay with us for a weekend. Not

8:27

it looks like a long weekend. And this included

8:29

eighteen niece. She

8:32

had gotten up in the morning and I was sort of telling

8:35

her what was available to eat, and

8:37

one of the things that I said was that we had the stuff

8:39

to make taco salad. The

8:41

next thing I saw on her Instagram

8:43

was this plate that's with the

8:46

caption that said nachos for breakfast,

8:48

And I was like, or that you can make

8:50

nachos instead of taco salad. Yes,

8:54

nachos almost make

8:56

nachos. Yeah. I got

8:58

into a discussion with a friend of mine about

9:01

the many, many things that get piled

9:04

on top of nachos something and

9:08

whether or not they still should be called nachos or

9:10

not. But I love them. I love them

9:12

in all the experimental phases. I had some very

9:15

spectacular lobster nachos recently

9:17

which were like you would sell a

9:19

beloved family member for them. They're so good,

9:21

they were so good. So

9:24

uh. The Cops salad is also my favorite

9:26

salad, So this was very self serving. Yeah,

9:29

who doesn't love it? I mean, you see them now, and they're

9:31

made in a lot of different ways. People like to switch out

9:34

those ingredients. You'll

9:36

often get blue cheese instead of roquefort. You'll

9:38

often get turkey instead of chicken. I

9:40

have seen in an Italian version with like

9:43

salami on it as the meat. Yeah,

9:46

so I like all the component parts

9:48

that go in there. I actually

9:50

could not tell you whether I have actually ordered

9:53

one at a restaurant, like in my various

9:55

salad ordering days, I don't know. I

9:57

couldn't tell you how many times I've ordered

9:59

those in a restaurant. I really it's my go to.

10:01

If you're at a restaurant and I'm like, I

10:04

don't know this restaurant. I don't know what's on the menu.

10:06

I don't it's I will get the Cops

10:08

salad if it's there. Well, we

10:12

can hope that one day it will be safe

10:14

for us to resume doing live

10:16

shows and you and I can go out for our pre

10:18

show dinner and we will get some Cops salads.

10:21

That is a deal. We're going to do it. One

10:32

of our episodes this week was about Grace

10:34

Humiston's also known as Mary Grace

10:37

Quack and boss depending god when in

10:39

the timeline we were talking about she

10:42

used both of those names during her

10:44

career. You will also sometimes

10:46

hear people say that quack in bush

10:49

um because in that family

10:51

tree, Uh, there

10:53

are folks whose spelling

10:56

has sort of evolved to be quack

10:58

and bush rather than quit can boss,

11:01

which is sort of an interesting thing to poke around

11:03

at while researching this. Yeah.

11:06

Yeah, I mean we we kind of see that all the

11:09

time, right looking at family trees in history.

11:11

And I know that makes it tricky

11:13

sometimes for people trying to trace

11:15

their own genealogy or their own family trees.

11:17

But like all other language,

11:20

names evolve and sometimes in ways that

11:22

um make it a little bit tricky to connect the

11:24

dots. But yeah, yeah,

11:27

um. Well, and since that first book about

11:29

her that came out in is the only

11:32

book that is dedicated just to her, there's

11:35

lots of the room to poke around looking at

11:38

stuff like old newspaper articles

11:40

and old magazine write ups and that kind of

11:42

stuff. And searching

11:45

all of the different permutations

11:47

of her name was

11:49

a process, um,

11:51

because she did professionally

11:54

use multiple different versions

11:56

of her name over time. UM.

11:58

And so I think guy had started out

12:00

with Grace Hummiston's and I struck out

12:03

in a bunch of the places where I normally would

12:05

find old coverage of somebody,

12:07

And it was because like a lot of that

12:09

that had been covered in newspapers was from

12:11

a little bit earlier. On the

12:14

Ruth Krueger case, though, was a

12:17

huge story the

12:19

same way it continues to be a

12:22

huge story when like a

12:25

young attractive white woman vanishes,

12:28

especially um, which

12:30

was one of the things that like was a

12:33

little frustrating to me about that arc in

12:35

the later part of her career that

12:37

was focused on the idea of white slavery

12:40

because some of the other stuff that she

12:42

had investigated really

12:45

was a much bigger issue, like the international

12:47

trafficking of laborers was

12:50

an enormous problem

12:53

that far overshadowed the supposed

12:56

threat to white women by

12:59

supposedly like emigrants

13:01

and black men and Jewish men who

13:03

were theoretically running these huge white slavery

13:06

rings in the United States. Right. That

13:08

all continues to be true today,

13:12

right in terms of what

13:14

people think of when you hear the word

13:16

trafficking and what is

13:19

way more likely to be happening when

13:21

people are trafficked. Yes, I mean we've

13:23

it comes up all the time that you know if

13:25

a uh and this isn't. Here's

13:27

the thing. It's tricky because you don't want to

13:30

act like anybody's disappearance

13:33

is not important because theoretically

13:35

they have an entire family of people who love

13:37

them and are are desperate for

13:40

information or to get their person back. But we

13:42

have watched this play out over and over where

13:44

if a young white girl

13:47

or white woman vanishes or

13:49

something happens, it's news everywhere. But in

13:51

the meantime, there are countless

13:53

black women and indigenous women and

13:56

people of color who vanish and never get

13:58

news coverage, right, and

14:01

it's kind of it's a little bit I

14:03

don't know about you. It gives me that kind of deflating

14:06

sigh of like, Yep, it's never

14:08

it's never changing. It's not it's not

14:11

it's not a new phenomenon at all.

14:14

Yeah, the impression. So there's

14:16

she doesn't how there's

14:18

like not a lot of personal writing by

14:20

her about her thought process behind

14:23

things. But it really does seem like, as

14:26

she faced so much criticism about

14:29

her allegations against the army that

14:31

she never really backed up with any kind

14:33

of support, that she slowly

14:36

withdrew from the public eye. And I think

14:38

that's probably one of the reasons that, um,

14:41

she did not become as

14:43

as widely known as various

14:46

other detectives and investigators

14:49

who were living at the same time as

14:51

she was, because she just kind of like

14:53

she kept going to court, she kept working at

14:55

her her law firm, but she

14:57

did not work on nearly the kind

15:00

of high profile cases after that as

15:02

she had before. Right,

15:05

Can we talk about how much I love Julius

15:07

Crone? Yeah,

15:11

I just I love him. I I feel

15:13

like there's a fun story there. There's probably

15:15

not a ton about him, but you know this idea

15:17

that that he was just so you

15:20

know, got assigned to her as a translator, and

15:22

then was obviously so good and

15:24

so committed to doing this work that they ended up

15:26

essentially in many ways like partners. And

15:30

I still love that he learned how to fix

15:32

bikes to keep his roots up because

15:35

he doesn't want anybody to go away with an unfixed

15:37

bike, just

15:40

because he's really there for Yeah,

15:44

yeah, it one of the

15:46

It was in the book actually, because

15:48

I did read the book um as

15:50

I was working on this described him

15:52

as kind of a like an unusual

15:55

persons who have been working as an investigator

15:57

when he was first assigned to work with Grace,

16:00

like he just had kind of a rougher personality

16:03

than a lot of the other people who were working

16:06

in his same department, and so it's

16:08

it's, I don't know, it seems like it turned out

16:10

to be a generally great partnership

16:12

between two of them. With all

16:14

of their investigations, I mean, many of

16:17

which really helps to either

16:19

exonerate people who have been wrongfully convicted

16:22

or people who have been sinced to death for

16:24

things that had the actual

16:26

facts been known at the time of their first trial, probably

16:28

would not have resulted to the death penalty that

16:31

last case, uh

16:33

where she suggested the exhumation and

16:35

then really felt like that that

16:37

he was kind of

16:39

railroaded after that point. Um,

16:42

I think she I think that weighed on

16:44

her afterward. Yeah,

16:48

I mean, of course, um, you know the exhumation

16:50

was more damaging than helpful, And yeah,

16:53

I can understand how that might. Uh.

16:56

You know, up to that point, it seems like every every

16:58

move she made would have bolstered her confidence,

17:00

but that one probably took it out by a significant

17:03

margin. Right. She's

17:05

an interesting and complicated

17:08

person. But I'm glad I finally

17:11

glad I finally did the episode. So a lot of times

17:13

when something happens and we get a ton

17:16

of requests for something, sometimes

17:19

that seems like that would be a weird time to do something,

17:21

like when another podcast has

17:23

literally just covered them,

17:26

I'm usually not inclined to immediately

17:28

also do it. Right, But

17:31

then we got that note from our colleague Christopher

17:33

who has I think he sent us one

17:35

more thing that I have saved in like,

17:38

maybe do this at some point, but it's one that I've had a harder

17:40

time finding information on. But I think

17:43

that would make it like three

17:45

for three of things that Christopher has said

17:47

you should do this piece of smart

17:49

cookie. He is uh

17:53

so happy, Happy Friday

17:55

again. Whatever's on your plate

17:57

over the weekend. We hope it goes well. It

17:59

will be back tomorrow with the classic episode

18:01

something brand New on Monday. You

18:04

want to send us a note or a history podcast

18:07

at i heart radio dot com and hey, subscribe

18:09

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18:19

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