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4:00

I wanted to talk about. Okay. So

4:03

one of the things that was just charming was

4:06

we talked about how Louderburr

4:09

did not major

4:11

in engineering and his father wanted him

4:13

to and how he

4:15

wanted to go into science. And there's a

4:17

great quote that he wrote about it saying,

4:20

quote, my father had recommended it because as

4:22

he had observed, he didn't know what scientists

4:24

did for a living, but engineers could always

4:26

get a job. I

4:29

love how he was just being practical. He

4:32

just wanted to make sure his kid had

4:34

a way to support himself. But

4:36

then he turned out to be a Nobel prize

4:38

winner. So that worked out. I

4:42

had to chuckle a little bit about

4:45

Ray Damadian's discussion that he wanted to lower

4:47

the cost of MRIs because the numbers he

4:49

quoted, I think it was something like for

4:51

a hospital at that time, it was like

4:53

a hundred thousand dollars just to get a

4:55

machine and for a patient,

4:57

the billing was like a thousand dollars for

4:59

an MRI. Now this was in the eighties

5:01

or that was later. That was a little

5:03

bit later than that. But I had

5:06

to chuckle because as I mentioned, I had had one

5:08

recently and I did not pay for

5:10

it. Insurance covered it. But like

5:13

it was many thousands of dollars more than $1,000.

5:18

I don't remember how much mine was because I mean,

5:20

this was more than a decade ago at this point.

5:24

And it was at a point where our

5:26

employer was

5:29

discovery communications and their insurance

5:31

was generally really

5:34

good. Yeah. I

5:37

know everybody's experience with insurance

5:39

is different depending on their needs, but

5:41

they covered that MRI that I needed on

5:43

my knee at a hundred percent.

5:45

So I paid no dollars for that

5:48

MRI. And I was

5:50

so relieved at that fact

5:52

that the actual cost of it never.

5:55

Right. Yeah. Yeah,

5:58

but like that. I

6:02

had stepped in a hole and broken my

6:04

knee and I had an X-ray of

6:06

it, and they needed to

6:08

do an MRI to confirm whether there

6:10

was any compression in the fracture, which

6:13

I was very nervous about because I

6:15

did not know I had fractured

6:19

my leg and I walked

6:21

on that break like

6:23

a mile. It

6:25

was fine. And that does, like, at least as I

6:27

remember, my head was not all the way in the

6:29

thing. So I did not

6:31

have the claustrophobia that a lot of people

6:34

experience in there, but

6:36

the noise and the unpredictability

6:38

of the noise was

6:41

enough that, like, my body was

6:43

involuntarily tensing up and

6:46

you're supposed to hold still. And

6:50

the, like, I kept, like, the technician kept having

6:52

to be like, I need you

6:54

to breathe and I would have to, like, consciously

6:57

try to keep myself from doing that.

6:59

It was challenging. I did not find

7:01

it as uncomfortable

7:03

an experience as a lot of people do

7:05

partially because my head was not in

7:08

the machine. But I did, like,

7:10

have to really

7:12

focus on not involuntarily

7:16

tensing up my entire body. Yeah,

7:19

it's hard. I was in the whole thing. As I said

7:21

at the top, like, I had to evict my gallbladder. We

7:24

were trying to figure out what was going on

7:26

because I thought I had food poisoning at first

7:29

and that was not what it was. Right.

7:32

And then I had done a telemedicine.

7:35

I tell this story just for transparency so

7:38

you understand and there's nothing to worry about. I

7:40

had done a telemedicine appointment in

7:43

the middle of the night because it wasn't getting

7:45

any better. And I also wasn't nauseated.

7:47

I wasn't throwing up or any of the things

7:49

you would associate with food poisoning.

7:52

But I had that just, my torso felt

7:54

very sick and it was somewhere in my

7:56

digestive tract. And I did that

7:58

and I talked through. what I was

8:00

experiencing with a doctor. And

8:03

the concern was that like, I think there

8:05

might be something going on here. And

8:07

also, hey, you know, sometimes in women

8:10

of your age, things

8:12

like heart attacks can present as strange indigestion.

8:14

So maybe go to the ER, let's get

8:16

this checked. So I did.

8:18

And they EKG'd me super fast. I wasn't even done

8:20

filling out paperwork and they were, they had the little

8:22

mobile one on me. And that was fine. My heart

8:24

was great. And then they started to figure

8:26

out what the problem was, which is that my gallbladder

8:28

was sad baby and didn't want to,

8:31

didn't want to do his job anymore. So

8:34

I had to be fully in the MRI and

8:36

I was so panicked because

8:39

I am claustrophobic. I

8:43

felt really, really bad. I'm going to

8:45

try to tell the story without any

8:47

gory details. But my, my MRI tech,

8:49

this was all going on on a

8:51

weekend. And so like full staff was

8:53

not there. And there wasn't an

8:55

orderly to come and get me and take me down

8:57

to the MRI. So the MRI tech just came up

8:59

and said, I'm going to drive you down,

9:01

like get in the, get in the wheelchair. And he didn't,

9:03

he was an angel human. And he

9:06

was super patient with me because I explained that

9:08

I was claustrophobic. He let me

9:10

keep my wedding ring on cause he's like, it's

9:12

silver. It's going to be fine. Although I panicked

9:15

halfway through and hit the panic button cause I

9:17

could feel it vibrating. Oh no. My

9:19

wedding ring off very carefully and was so

9:21

nice and like, cause I have, I don't

9:23

take my wedding ring off ever. It's

9:25

just like a deal Brian and I made when we got married 27 years

9:28

ago that like, this is honest for good. It's

9:30

why I will never upgrade my wedding ring. I can't go back in

9:32

time and put a different ring on my hand. This is my wedding

9:34

ring for life. And

9:36

so he was super nice and very caring and kind

9:39

about that. And then I did the thing, I made

9:41

it through it sucked. He would

9:43

occasionally just pop on to the audio thing and

9:45

be like, you're doing great. We're almost there. Like

9:47

he was amazing. And then I got out and

9:50

he, I was getting back into the chair and

9:52

he said, Hey, I'm not going to

9:54

do the wedding ring. You look a little wobbly. Are you dizzy?

9:56

And I just said, I'm about to barf and bless that man

9:58

who was not a nurse and took. if

20:00

that was because he wanted to somehow

20:03

write Domedian out. I don't

20:05

get that vibe, but I didn't know him personally, so I

20:07

don't know. Or if he was

20:09

just trying to distance himself from mention of

20:11

Domedian because he knew it was contentious. And

20:15

it is a thing where I don't know where I

20:17

stand on all of that. I do sort of feel

20:19

like both of these people did some pretty important work.

20:23

And you have to do the messy

20:25

work up front that maybe doesn't work

20:27

exactly right before. I mean, in

20:29

any field, in any invention, usually it's very rare

20:31

that someone's like, I have an idea. I'm going

20:33

to invent a thing. Here's the thing. I made

20:35

it. It works perfectly. That doesn't really happen. We've

20:39

talked about many patent cases where like,

20:41

you know, I mean, even if we go back to

20:43

the first combination patent of the sewing machine, it was

20:46

like a lot of people were working on this concept,

20:48

and none of them could quite get it

20:50

altogether. They needed to come together

20:52

and make one big patent as a group to

20:55

make it all really a functional piece of

20:57

machinery that could be marketed to a consumer

20:59

market. And so this kind

21:01

of feels the same, but nobody was willing

21:03

to do like a combination patent on it. And

21:07

I have, you know, I read a number

21:09

of accounts that were written by

21:11

scientists or opinions that were given

21:13

by scientists in various news

21:15

articles, et cetera. And a lot of them kind

21:18

of come to the point of, I

21:20

think both of those dudes thought they were the

21:22

one, and that was the problem. It's

21:25

wild to me. Because this

21:27

is like, what's

21:29

wild to me is that this argument

21:32

continues over a thing that

21:34

is demonstrably a life-saving technology. That was

21:36

one of the things that really struck

21:38

me reading through this. Like

21:41

there are people who have had

21:44

things like cancers or other illnesses

21:46

detected early enough that it could

21:48

be treated because of the work of these

21:50

men. And I

21:52

say that collectively, that would

21:54

not have had that opportunity

21:57

otherwise. But we still can't

21:59

seem to work out. like how to give

22:01

both of them their due equally. It's

22:04

wild. Yeah. I

22:07

had a lot of just, I also

22:09

think this is a situation where, because

22:12

we don't necessarily know what was in

22:15

their inner world, it

22:18

is really easy to sort of come

22:20

up with a narrative that explains this

22:22

behavior. And just kind of

22:24

assume that's really what happened. I

22:28

am very curious about the Nobel

22:30

decisions. I know. I

22:32

wonder if in 2053, like, Yeah.

22:35

This argument's gonna get real real again. Yeah.

22:38

I'm like, If I'm still around,

22:40

I'll be so old at that point. Will I

22:42

still care? Right. Well, and both

22:44

of these men have living descendants. Yeah, sure. I

22:47

didn't get into like the personal lives of many

22:49

of them, except for that cute meeting on the

22:51

ship, because it was just so charming. But

22:54

like, there were certainly

22:56

a lot of these people

22:58

that, they have family

23:01

that will still be alive when that happens. I

23:04

don't know. We generally

23:06

try to never talk about people that are still living

23:08

on the show, unless it's

23:11

a really unique circumstance. Yeah. Like if it's

23:13

an event and there are people associated with

23:15

it still alive. Yeah. And

23:18

I certainly did not go digging to find out about their families

23:20

and their stances or where they have been in the midst of

23:22

all of this. So I

23:24

am curious, but also respectfully don't want to

23:26

get all up in their business. It's

23:30

fascinating. I'm glad there are MRIs. Yeah.

23:35

Even if I didn't enjoy mine. Yeah.

23:38

I'm glad that MRI revealed I did not need to

23:40

have knee surgery. Yeah. I'm

23:42

glad mine revealed I didn't have to have

23:45

a second one. So thank you MRI. Yeah.

23:47

I just had to be on crutches for

23:50

like seven weeks. I

23:52

remember that. We were not working together

23:55

yet when that happened, but I remember seeing you

23:57

at stuff because we had crossover social

23:59

people. Yeah, yeah. We also just that

24:01

came up on the show not that

24:03

long ago my time on crutches. I

24:06

don't know how I would do on crutches. I have

24:09

been having a hard enough time with the rule of

24:11

don't lift anything over 10 pounds. Yeah, yeah. For

24:14

a month. So I found

24:16

being on crutches very

24:18

exhausting. Also, you know, my body was

24:20

trying to make new bone. Right.

24:23

And that also was exhausting. And

24:26

at that point, I mean, this was so many

24:28

years ago at this point. We were in an

24:30

office that was next

24:32

to the Buckhead Marta station. Yeah.

24:35

So that's so like, this would have

24:37

been not 20 years ago, but you

24:40

know, 15 at least. And

24:45

I wound up negotiating to

24:47

work at home part of

24:49

the time because getting to

24:51

work and getting around our not

24:54

very accessible office on crutches was

24:56

really hard. That's something

24:59

that we also didn't talk about about MRI specifically,

25:01

like we talked about all the barriers to access

25:03

in terms of money and availability and all of

25:05

that stuff with an MRI machine. There

25:08

are people with various disabilities who'd

25:10

like getting positioned

25:13

into the machine is its own.

25:16

Yeah. Even

25:19

without, you know, some kind of medical device

25:21

that could cause an issue with the machine

25:23

itself. So yeah. Yeah,

25:25

there have been efforts. I

25:28

know Phonar worked on a lot of positional MRIs

25:30

to like try to address some of those problems.

25:32

And even now, if you go to their website,

25:34

they show one where you're kind

25:37

of sitting upright and it is not the tube

25:39

of the tube of fear. If you're me, I

25:42

am still having nightmares about the slightly

25:44

off-center stripe that runs through the machine.

25:46

Yeah. Again, because I'm claustrophobic.

25:48

I think when my mom had to

25:51

have one, I don't remember if they

25:53

put a washcloth on her face or

25:55

if they offered to put

25:57

a washcloth on her face just to like.

26:01

have something there so it's

26:03

not seeing the

26:05

inside of the machine so close and not

26:07

being able to move. Yeah. Yeah.

26:09

I have never wanted to

26:12

flat my arms so bad in my life. I'm a

26:14

very fidgety person, so that was a hard one for

26:16

me. Me too. Me

26:18

too. I do

26:20

know someone who has the opposite problem, which

26:22

tickles me, that they

26:24

have had to have a number of MRIs,

26:27

and they find it oddly soothing and fall asleep,

26:29

but that creates the problem of their head will

26:31

move to the side when they drop off and

26:33

they have to do the whole thing over. Yeah.

26:35

And I'm just like, I can't imagine what it would

26:37

be like to be in that machine and be

26:39

like, oh, nap time. This is

26:41

cozy. When I'm like, how

26:43

can I claw my way out? So

26:49

if you ever have to have an MRI, I

26:52

hope that you can get in the right mental

26:54

headspace to not have it be stressful and that

26:56

you have an amazing tech like I did and

26:58

that everything goes smooth as silk. I

27:01

also hope that if this is your weekend coming

27:04

up, that you get to relax a little bit

27:06

and not think about anything scary or stressful in

27:08

any way and that your health is wonderful. We

27:11

will be right back here tomorrow with a classic

27:13

episode and then on Monday we'll have something brand

27:15

new. Stuff

27:22

You Missed in History class is

27:24

a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts

27:26

from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple

27:28

Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

27:31

favorite shows. Sound

27:38

is personal, intimate, and emotive. Just

27:40

like this podcast. We

27:43

are Audios stack.ai. We

27:45

combine AI writing. We invest synthetic

27:48

voices like ours. With production like

27:50

music and mastering. And

27:52

deliver them to be heard, be it ads,

27:54

podcasts, or VOs for video. Just like

27:57

this ad you're listening to right now. We

28:00

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