0:00

Welcome to syntax. Today we've got our

0:03

state of JS 2023 reaction episode. We

0:06

do one of these every single year and

0:09

I realize it's quite a ways into

0:11

2024 already, but

0:13

state of JS, which is a

0:15

survey that goes out to sort

0:17

of the JavaScript community and ask

0:19

questions about JavaScript features, frameworks, libraries,

0:21

resources, all that type of stuff,

0:24

has just rolled out the latest results.

0:26

And I often I

0:28

really like these surveys because it sort

0:30

of gives you a peer into our

0:32

industry of what

0:34

are people using? What do people like? What's

0:36

sort of on the uptick? What's on the

0:39

downtick? What are what are people

0:41

actually using versus two

0:43

knuckleheads talking about on a podcast every

0:45

single week? So it's an exciting

0:48

one. And we're going to dive on into

0:50

it. My name is Wes. I'm a developer

0:52

from Canada with me as always is Scott.

0:54

How are you doing today, Scott? Hey, I'm

0:56

doing good. Back in back in action over

0:59

here. I had a

1:01

I had an ordeal getting getting

1:03

home from Italy, man.

1:05

I always like I had to sleep

1:07

on the floor in an airport for

1:09

an airport for what was in JFK

1:12

for like 24 hours with my kids, which

1:15

is your kids with kids. They're

1:17

five and seven. So they're not like little, little, but

1:20

like they're little and they slept on

1:22

the floor and the airport with me just because

1:24

Delta didn't want to cancel the flight because they

1:26

didn't want to give people like hotel reimbursement. So

1:28

they were just like, Oh, we'll tell you in

1:30

20 minutes. We'll tell you in 20 minutes. And

1:32

it's like two a.m. Whatever. And

1:34

they're like, All right, it's postponed until tomorrow. Tomorrow.

1:38

Tomorrow at eight, 15 a.m. We get to the gate.

1:40

Oh, the flight doesn't have a crew or

1:42

a pilot. It's postponed again. You're just like there

1:45

was an actual literal fight. The

1:48

police had to be called. It was.

1:51

Yeah. For you. There

1:53

was there was two airplanes that were like leaving

1:55

at the same time, us and another

1:57

one. And we both got on the. Knuckles.

2:01

No, no, no. And we both had to

2:03

deplane after being on the plane waiting for like an

2:05

hour. So we had

2:07

to deplane and then the other

2:10

flight was a bunch of people that were

2:12

going to go on a cruise. And

2:14

so they were going to miss their cruise. And

2:16

so the people across the way from

2:18

us that they were just like basically

2:21

losing their minds and it got

2:23

heated. I don't necessarily know what happened, but

2:26

it was a kerfuffle. Next

2:28

thing you know, there's police protecting the

2:30

Delta employees who were awful, by the way. I

2:33

never fly Delta and man, I'm a Delta

2:35

hater now. It's

2:38

so I felt kind of bad because I

2:40

had previously said one of my Twitter tips

2:42

was to mute the name of every airline.

2:45

And then I went into the chat and saw that you had this

2:48

massive ordeal. And I was like, oh, poor

2:50

guy. Especially with kids like

2:52

I do not wish that on anyone.

2:54

There's nothing more frustrating than being delayed,

2:56

let alone with kids. So

2:59

brutal. Yeah, it was brutal. But I'm back. There

3:01

you go. Feeling good. Feeling ready. And you know

3:03

what else is ready? Our code base because it

3:06

uses a century to track all of our errors

3:08

and exceptions. That's right. We make sure

3:10

that we can solve anything as it comes up.

3:12

But normally that we can fix our performance

3:15

problems before they even become problems.

3:18

Because we get a user misery score to say like, well,

3:20

this page is being hit by a lot of people and

3:22

it's very slow. Or this page has

3:25

a lot of user misery. Let's

3:27

tackle that. Let's find, let's dig in. Let's

3:29

look for our slow queries. Maybe something's missing

3:31

in index. Maybe something isn't being cached that

3:33

could be cached and century makes it easy

3:35

to solve and find all that stuff. So

3:37

if you want all of this and more

3:40

head on over to century.io/syntax sign up and

3:42

get two months for free. Awesome. All right.

3:44

Let's get into it. Oh, let's, let's real

3:46

quick plug. We just got new t-shirts for

3:48

syntax. Scott and I are wearing one

3:51

of them. I'm wearing the sick

3:54

pick t-shirt. Scott is wearing the

3:56

blazing fast. Oh, she

3:58

just spilled his water. blazing

4:00

fast, World Wide Web information superhighway.

4:03

We've got a whole bunch of other ones as

4:05

well. We got a prettier collab one and a

4:07

drizzle collab one. They're pretty cool. Look at this.

4:11

Yeah, we got here coming to

4:13

you. I just ordered the hats. It's going to be very

4:15

similar to this one, except what's

4:18

that called? Five panel where. It

4:22

goes like right here. Yeah, I'm sure it's called the

4:24

five panel. So it's it'll be a

4:26

little less clumpy right here, which this is. This is

4:29

a tester, so got some cool stuff coming down the

4:31

pipe. But a syntax out of them and click on

4:33

swag in the top. You'll get to

4:35

it. Yeah. All right. Let's

4:37

get into the 2023 state of J.S.

4:39

survey. Let's

4:42

kick it off with the front

4:45

end framework stuff, because I always find

4:47

this the most interesting. So

4:49

front end framework ratios over time. I

4:52

think this is always interesting to see

4:54

which front end frameworks are people using

4:57

by far. The

5:00

highest one is React, which has

5:02

gone up from 81 to 84. These

5:06

things are, we should say they're

5:08

obviously going to be biased based on

5:11

the type of audience that answers

5:13

them as well as like we tell

5:15

people to to go like a couple

5:17

of years ago, we told people to go and

5:20

take the survey. So obviously there's going to be

5:22

people that listen to this podcast that are answering

5:25

this. So it's going to be pretty

5:28

heavy in React's felt world. But that's

5:31

nothing is ever perfect. No data is

5:33

ever perfect. But React has gone up

5:35

3 percent and Vue has

5:37

gone up as well, which is

5:39

pretty interesting to see it

5:41

uptick. What's interesting here is that almost

5:44

all of them have gone up. So Angular went

5:46

down and has gone down year over year. Since

5:48

2018, it was at 56 and now it's at

5:50

45 percent. And

5:53

Lit is kind of like staying stagnant.

5:55

But the rest of them have all gone

5:57

up, which is all pretty interesting to

5:59

me. I don't know. Yeah, it's just more people trying

6:02

different things and that's it because there's a

6:04

lot of options. People are actually trying things

6:06

now, but like it's cool

6:08

and in HTMX showing up here at a 5%

6:11

man, it is really interesting to see how much some

6:14

of the like viewing up like 4% Svelte on

6:16

up 4% quick on up 3%. So

6:21

interesting that they most of them seem to go up.

6:24

Yeah. I wonder if that's because people

6:27

are trying other things, you

6:29

know, like probably I would

6:31

I would expect to react to go straight and

6:33

the rest to go up because people are saying,

6:35

ah, you know what? Maybe I

6:37

should try something else out, but

6:39

they almost all have gone up so much

6:41

that like they're not it's not

6:44

that data is not coming from anywhere else,

6:46

right? Maybe those are people that are coming

6:48

from Drupal or WordPress or something like that

6:50

because it goes all the way back to

6:52

2016 where at the time only 52% use

6:54

react. Angular

6:58

was 19 and view is 10. It's

7:02

very small percentage of people

7:05

who are even using a framework at that time

7:07

and now it's seems like almost

7:09

everybody is. Yeah. And

7:11

here's a little interesting tidbit because you

7:13

can view by usage, awareness, interest, retention

7:15

and positivity. And I wonder

7:18

if positivity is maybe a

7:20

potential precursor for usage in the future.

7:22

Yeah. Which is you focus

7:25

on positivity for react. It

7:27

has gone down from 2020 81% to 71%. So

7:31

positivity for react has gone down by a whole 10%. Meanwhile,

7:35

positivity for view is basically

7:38

kind of say the same the past couple

7:40

of years, but gone down overall positivity for

7:42

Svelte has gone up. Yeah. I

7:44

was gonna say that. The only one that has

7:46

gone up every single year. Yeah.

7:49

Svelte. It's wild. And

7:51

Hdmax and lit. Lit

7:53

has gone up too. Although usage solid's

7:55

gone up. You know, it seems like solid is becoming one

7:57

of those ones that's getting more and more In

8:00

general, I think people react folks who come

8:03

to solid or are going to find that

8:05

it's a nice experience compared to maybe what

8:07

they're dealing with react. But I always find

8:09

the positivity one to be one of the

8:11

most interesting aspects of this

8:13

just to gauge general sentiment around around

8:15

these things. Because if you look

8:17

at positivity around angular usage

8:20

goes down, but positivity is kind of remain

8:22

flat for quite a while and even has

8:24

like a small uptick. So I wonder

8:27

like how this eventually translates to usage.

8:30

Let's talk front end framework pain points

8:32

because these are the things that I

8:34

think people have issues with their front

8:36

end frameworks. It's funny because you know

8:38

how many of these are specifically to

8:40

react or any of these things. What

8:43

I like about this is that they've broken

8:45

them down. Let's say you have very react

8:48

specific issues. React specific

8:50

issues account for 17% of the respondents.

8:55

So those would be excessive dominance.

8:57

That's a wild pain point to

8:59

say react is too dominant. And

9:01

I mean, I agree. I don't love working react myself

9:03

and it's everywhere. So you can't avoid it, right? So

9:05

you fall into this trap of, well, I got to

9:08

use it even if I don't like it. Slow

9:10

progress, community concerns. Those

9:13

are all a lack of signals, which is an interesting

9:15

one. You can just use signals. I mean, you don't

9:17

have to use, you know, reacts

9:19

baked in signals to use signals there. Excessive

9:22

complexity choice overload. These are all things

9:24

that we've been hearing all the time.

9:27

This is, you know, what's really cool about

9:30

this is a lot of these questions this

9:32

year have been free form and I'm not

9:34

sure we should maybe have Sasha on again

9:36

who runs this and see if he's using

9:39

like AI or something like that

9:41

to sort of collect this data point. Oh yeah.

9:44

But instead of being like, what's your

9:46

favorite framework? First, first checkbox. Is

9:48

it react? You know, now it's just free

9:50

form input and you can click on the

9:53

issues. And

9:55

actually read the respondents that

9:57

people have, have said. And

10:00

it's it's really cool.

10:03

Excessive dominance. Let's see dominance of

10:05

react, predominance of react. React

10:07

is everywhere, but is used in a standardized

10:09

way. React touches

10:11

everything. Everything's really to react.

10:14

React sucks. Yeah. And

10:17

yeah, honestly, this is such good

10:20

data because. Like

10:23

people that are taking this thing care

10:25

about web development, right? And this is

10:27

not just like hot takes. This is

10:29

like actually people that are are

10:31

saying this type of thing. Yeah. Yeah.

10:34

It is a common sentiment. I think you

10:36

get that from that 10 percent decrease in

10:38

people liking using react. But also like we

10:41

talk all the time about choice overload. To

10:43

me, that the that being the number two

10:45

problem is kind of a react problem in

10:48

itself, because the react community more

10:50

so than view, more so than

10:52

Svelter, Angular makes less choices for

10:55

you. And therefore that right there

10:58

increases the choice overload. It also

11:00

increases the excessive complexity, because now

11:02

you're wiring all these things together

11:05

that might not be connected where with

11:07

view, you have a very clear options

11:09

of what you should be using for

11:11

state management for for basically everything, right?

11:14

And same with Svelter or Angular. They take

11:16

care of a little bit more for you.

11:18

And because of that, I would say

11:21

that you have less choice

11:23

overload and less excessive complexity there.

11:26

And maybe that that choice overload and

11:28

excessive complexity are symptoms of the react

11:30

ecosystem itself. But, you know, who knows?

11:32

JavaScript overall has got like a billion

11:35

different framework options. I think

11:37

so. If you if you click on over to state

11:39

management and you just kind of peruse the actual answers,

11:41

a lot of people are saying, obviously,

11:43

state management, a lot of people are

11:46

saying, dealing with forms in state. And

11:49

now now we have that right in

11:51

in react. So I'm curious what this will

11:53

look like once people start to

11:56

give form actions a shot

11:58

over the next year or so. Yeah,

12:00

yeah, interesting stuff. And it does, I mean, all

12:02

of these track with things that we've been hearing

12:04

for so long in terms of,

12:07

you know, people's fatigue about JavaScript frameworks and

12:09

how they feel about them. So,

12:11

you know, it's obvious that this stuff is a

12:13

real problem, but it's interesting to see it being

12:15

laid out like this. Let's

12:18

talk about meta frameworks. Unless you want

12:20

to see more there. That's exactly what

12:22

I was going to go to. So

12:24

a major jump in Next.js from

12:26

48% to 56% of respondents having

12:31

usage. Let's see. Let's

12:34

go to interest. Yeah. Or

12:36

the positivity for Next.js goes

12:38

from 75% to 64%, an

12:42

11% drop in positivity while they

12:44

jump in in increase

12:46

in usage and a decrease

12:48

in retention as well.

12:50

That's interesting. Wow. So Next.js usage

12:53

has gone up, but interest,

12:56

retention and positivity

12:58

all have gone down. So

13:01

it's very similar to the React

13:03

answers where everybody's using it, but

13:05

a lot of the complaints

13:07

are, I don't want to use it because

13:10

it just has such dominance. Yeah.

13:12

It feels like people are being, you know, led to

13:14

use it and then maybe not having a great time.

13:17

You know, maybe that's it. Yeah. What's

13:20

got the most positivity uptick

13:22

here? Svelk kit, man, Svelk kit

13:24

is killing it. Svelk kit

13:27

is killing it. Astro also though, Astro goes

13:29

from, oh, since 2021 it goes from 20% to 54%. And

13:34

I got to say that tracks with my experience with Astro.

13:37

I tend to really like it. I pick up Svelk

13:39

kit just cause it's like, it's the Svelte framework and

13:41

that's what I use. But if

13:44

I'm writing a React application today or view

13:46

app, maybe not a view, maybe view, I

13:48

don't know. If I'm writing

13:50

React application today, I'm picking Astro as

13:52

my framework for sure. You

13:54

know, what's interesting is that the

13:57

Gatsby usage has sort of remained.

14:00

standard and it still

14:02

has gone down over the years. Gatsby is

14:04

wild. We've talked about this a while times,

14:06

but just the the come up

14:08

and the slide down in the Gatsby world

14:10

has been been wild.

14:13

Jamstack, man. See,

14:15

Jamstack, Jamstack. Yeah. You know what's funny

14:17

about how that this this comments about

14:20

Jamstack relate is that like I've been

14:22

doing more what you could call Jamstack

14:24

now than I did even back when

14:26

Gatsby was at its peak. I'm like

14:29

it could be the hipster in me, but

14:31

I've moved fully into like, all right, SSR,

14:33

my my about pages and the SEO stuff,

14:36

but CSR, everything else keep

14:38

my data clients out like I'm going so

14:40

hard in that direction. It's very funny now.

14:43

It's just like whatever everybody's talking about. I can't be

14:45

doing it for some reason. Yeah. Yeah. So what in

14:47

two years from now, what are you what are you

14:50

going to be? Back in SSR.

14:53

Yeah, you're going to be talking

14:55

about PHP was right. Yeah,

14:57

I know. No kidding. Yeah. I'm

14:59

kind of bummed to look at the other meta

15:01

frameworks here to see some

15:03

some really good ones that really aren't

15:06

getting enough love here. Like quick. Only

15:08

34 people have written it

15:10

in. Like I'd expect quick to

15:13

have a bigger usage than that. Right.

15:15

And Redwood, only 14. OK,

15:19

Adonis, 12. You know, like

15:21

meteors higher than Adonis. Yeah. Those things

15:24

need a bit more love. So we

15:26

should maybe describe what they are. So

15:28

quick is a framework

15:30

for building websites where

15:32

it does resume ability

15:35

from the server to the client. And we

15:37

had me go on. You can go

15:40

listen to that episode. It's syntax out

15:42

of M4 slash 574. Just

15:45

sort of understand what

15:47

quick is all about. Quick is really, really neat.

15:49

And you can bring all of your react components

15:52

to it. And same with like Redwood. We had Tom

15:54

Preston Warner on from Redwood as well.

15:57

Yeah. And it's just a lot.

15:59

Sometimes we say like, hey, why

16:01

is there no rails for JavaScript

16:03

and Redwood is that?

16:07

Yeah, it is funny how these things it

16:11

is like it's weird because like, yeah, people are

16:13

saying there's there's too many choices that need to

16:15

be made. There's too

16:17

much fatigue in that direction.

16:19

But then the options that reduce

16:21

that fatigue are like not present

16:23

in the usage category. It's like,

16:25

hey, these things are here. If

16:28

you were to give them a look and

16:30

give them a try, especially with things like

16:32

Redwood or Adonis or some of these.

16:34

Yeah, even Meteor does a lot for you. And

16:37

I haven't kept up with Meteor that much,

16:39

but it's it's still chugging along for sure.

16:41

Yeah. Do you think that's

16:43

because people just want to be told what

16:46

to use? Like the reason why Next.js usage

16:49

went up, but the interest in

16:51

positivity went down is because

16:53

like, well, like I want to use

16:55

the thing that everybody's using the most

16:57

documentation, the most examples, the most integrations.

17:00

Right. Where like a lot of

17:02

people would argue that Redwood Adonis,

17:05

a lot of these quick, solid,

17:07

a lot of these things are better. They're

17:10

way better. But like if

17:12

that's why people are in like rails and

17:15

Laravel world are so happy because they're just

17:17

told what to use and everybody uses the

17:19

same thing. Yeah. It's so

17:21

funny because that that conversation has been

17:23

happening so frequently lately where JavaScript developers

17:25

are trying Laravel and they're like, wow,

17:27

this is actually great. And I

17:29

think the reason why it's actually great is is not

17:32

I mean, Laravel is great, but not because Laravel is

17:34

anything special. It just makes all the choices for you.

17:36

Yeah. Right. Like it

17:39

does so much for you that you don't have

17:41

to do all the all the pain point stuff

17:43

that was listed in the pain points. And if

17:45

we go to the meta frameworks, pain points, the

17:48

most respondents, number one is next JS

17:50

issues is number one for

17:52

pain points here, including the app

17:54

router being a big thing that caching next JS

17:56

13. I have heard a

17:59

ton of things about. the app router being

18:01

a pain. I don't know much about the app

18:03

router myself. I haven't. I don't know what's

18:05

different about it, but yeah, it seems like it

18:07

hasn't been, but yeah, the pains are because

18:09

people have written these massive applications on the pages

18:12

router and now they're like, Oh,

18:15

app router is the way to go. And

18:17

obviously they're still supporting the old way and

18:19

you can mix and match them, but it's

18:22

a big, um, it's a

18:24

big thing to switch over and it's like

18:27

just another mental overhead shift of changing from

18:29

one way to another. Yeah.

18:31

And so excessive complexity. Number two, number three

18:33

is deployment. This to me honestly feels like

18:35

an XJS issue as well, because I don't

18:37

find many of these frameworks to be difficult

18:39

to deploy. Um, and not that

18:42

next JS is difficult to deploy, but if you want

18:44

like the, the features you're going to use

18:46

it on for sell, right? Um, and

18:48

if you try to deploy elsewhere, yeah, then

18:50

it's difficult to deploy, but, uh, that's interesting.

18:53

So many, so many respondents said deployment, given

18:55

that anything that adopts the

18:57

adapter pattern is super easy to

18:59

deploy. Cause he just installed

19:01

a given adapter and let it rip.

19:04

But again, so

19:06

we decided rendering or just spit out a

19:08

note app. Yeah. I love that they published

19:10

the results, like what people wrote in here

19:13

because you can say like, if we looked at this

19:15

deployment, we can guess what people are thinking, but you

19:17

can literally just read the results

19:20

and probably every third one

19:22

does mention next JS and

19:24

for sale, not because it's bad, maybe

19:27

because it's too good, right? They're

19:29

so tightly coupled together and it

19:31

deployment of next JS. Many of

19:34

next features are locked behind vendor.

19:36

Yeah. Interesting.

19:38

Uh, and lock-in is number 13 on the

19:40

pain point. Uh, for cell is nine on

19:42

the pain point. And what's funny is that

19:44

like, for cell makes everything really easy. The

19:47

problem with that is that it makes everything really

19:49

easy in a way that could potentially cost

19:51

you a lot of money later on, or

19:54

you're locked in now to using it and,

19:56

and being on that as part of your

19:58

platform, right? You're, you're, you're locked. into that

20:00

being part of your platform. And not that

20:03

that's a bad thing if everything is good,

20:05

but it is something to be aware of.

20:08

You don't have that flexibility and freedom that

20:10

you get with just deploying a node app

20:12

anywhere. Because that used to be a really

20:14

nice thing about Next.js. You could just deploy a

20:16

node app anywhere, and that was just the way to

20:19

do it. Or do it on Vercel as just a straight-up node app. I'm

20:21

sure you can still do it as a straight-up node app.

20:23

But yeah, interesting. I

20:26

think the thing is people want... You

20:29

can still deploy Next.js as a node application,

20:31

and it runs really well, right? Yeah.

20:35

But everybody wants... They

20:37

want the CPM, they want the caching, they

20:39

want the instant deployment, the

20:41

Git previews without having to spin up

20:43

a server. So we want

20:45

our... I'll tell you where I've been hosting

20:47

everything now is basically just Cloudflare. I've

20:50

been hosting everything on Cloudflare. I find it

20:52

to be dead simple. It's so good. Works every

20:54

time. I built a whole

20:56

Next.js site, and I used

20:58

all of the caching features. I used React

21:00

server components. I used a good chunk of

21:02

the Next.js features, and I used... It's

21:06

called Next on Pages, which

21:08

is Cloudflare's adapter,

21:11

I guess you could call it, and it

21:13

worked really well. There was still some...

21:16

It's not Vercel level. It's not

21:18

as like, oh, wow, this just works, you

21:20

know, and all this nice integration. But it

21:23

worked pretty good. Enough where I was like, yeah, I like

21:25

this a lot, and I use the D3 SQLite database inside

21:27

of it. So

21:30

I think it's... If I

21:32

were to say, it's probably worth figuring out

21:34

how to get it to run

21:36

on Cloudflare as well, because once it

21:38

is working, it's really nice. Yeah,

21:43

I just got a bit into Cloudflare workers, and

21:46

it's so funny. We'll talk about this in another

21:48

episode, because I built a little font serving service to

21:53

host our licensed fonts in

21:55

a way that we didn't have to put them in the repo. And

21:58

I did a bit of a testing here. It's like,

22:00

where do we host these things? Do you throw them in a bucket? Do I

22:02

throw it in a function, a pages

22:04

function? Do I throw them in a worker? Like,

22:06

what's the fastest way to do all these things?

22:08

So we'll talk all about that. But hosting, man,

22:10

it's a wild world right now. And I tend

22:12

to just either throw it on Coolify or throw it

22:14

in Cloudflare and call it a day. Let's

22:17

talk about build tools. Still

22:19

coming in, the

22:22

highest usage is Webpack at 90%.

22:26

That, to me, is

22:28

wild. I would have

22:30

thought that everybody has moved over to

22:33

Devite at this point. But it's next.js

22:35

is really what it is. And if

22:37

you go to the positivity, Webpack

22:40

had a 89% positivity in 27, which is wild to

22:42

me in

22:44

the first place. But now it's like down in the 40%. So

22:47

it's nearly dropped 40 percentage points

22:49

in terms of positivity. I have not

22:51

touched Webpack almost my

22:54

entire career. It is such

22:56

a nice thing for me. Vete

23:00

up to 73% usage. And

23:04

then the positivity, 88%. It's

23:07

great. I have a prediction, Wes. My

23:10

prediction is in the 2024 respondents, we

23:13

will see roll down on

23:15

this list. Because I think people are

23:17

going to actually start to get to use

23:19

it in some regard at some point this year. Because

23:21

I even saw Evan just, Evan,

23:23

you posted today that he had

23:26

his first view app using roll

23:28

down actually working. I

23:30

don't think I've heard of this. What

23:32

is roll down? Obviously, a roll up

23:34

alternative. Roll down. So here's

23:37

the gist on roll down. Basically, Vete,

23:39

the thing everybody knows and loves,

23:41

Vete uses two different build tools

23:43

behind the scenes. It uses roll

23:45

up for production builds. Because roll

23:48

up is very good at all sorts of

23:50

things in production builds. And it uses ES

23:52

build for all kinds of things

23:54

as well. It's very fast, right? So it

23:57

uses a combination of these two. said

24:00

like, all right, well, what would a

24:02

next generation version of roll up look

24:04

like that had the speed of ES

24:06

build, but it was built from scratch

24:08

and rust. So roll

24:11

down is an attempt to essentially

24:13

have a next generation version of

24:15

roll up built in rust that's

24:17

super fast and will eventually

24:20

become the main build compiler

24:22

for Vite. It will replace

24:24

ES build and roll

24:26

up within Vite. Interesting. Roadmap

24:29

is super interesting if you want to

24:31

give the roadmap a check because it's

24:33

moving quite along. And

24:35

I think it's one of those projects that we're

24:37

going to hear a lot about over the next,

24:40

I don't know, next year or so. That's

24:42

my big, big, bold prediction. Not

24:45

all that interesting pain points

24:47

here. Configuration obviously being the biggest one

24:49

of all of them. With Webpack high

24:51

config is always going to be a

24:54

thing. Yeah. Performance,

24:56

also Webpack, man, because let

24:59

me tell you, there is no performance issues with Vite.

25:02

Excessive complexity,

25:04

no issues with Vite in there for me. Webpack

25:07

issues number four. Yeah. If you're looking at this list for

25:09

me, I'm trying not to be too much of a hater

25:11

here, but like the top four are all Webpack issues if

25:13

you're asking me. ESM and

25:15

CJS, definitely a big

25:17

pain point for a lot of people and

25:20

definitely something that I don't know how

25:22

it gets any better, to be honest. So I've

25:24

moved fully over to ESM a long time ago, but

25:27

you still have a one off situation

25:29

here and there and it still can be a pain

25:31

point, definitely. Oh yeah. I

25:35

think a lot of people also don't realize

25:37

that they are running CommonJS at the end

25:39

of the day because a lot of these

25:41

build tools will still put out CommonJS. And

25:44

the biggest pain point is for library

25:47

authors who still need to publish these

25:49

types of things so that

25:51

everyone can use it. It's such a, such a pain. Let's

25:55

move into JavaScript run times. This

25:57

is kind of interesting. Where does

25:59

the JavaScript. actually run 94% of

26:01

respondents are using node JS and

26:03

83% are using the browser. So

26:08

that's wild to me that more people

26:10

are running server JavaScript than browser.

26:13

That's a weird. I don't know. That

26:16

doesn't feel like why would that

26:18

information? Yeah, I know that's that's

26:20

crazy. But maybe people just aren't

26:22

thinking about. Oh yeah. Yeah. Like

26:25

the browser is a runtime. Yeah. I

26:29

mean, I think

26:31

like I don't know anybody

26:33

that's running bun in production. Have you

26:36

do you know anyone? That's

26:40

a great question. I don't several small apps

26:42

running in in Dino, which is at 15%.

26:46

But bun certainly has

26:49

lots and lots of hype in the last

26:51

year, which is probably has to

26:53

show for that. Yeah. There's

26:55

a lot of little things I like about bun, but

26:57

I ultimately can't find myself really

26:59

committing to the things that

27:01

make bun like the things that make bun

27:04

unique are all excellent. But I find myself

27:06

in a really hard time saying like going

27:08

all in on that. And I'm you

27:10

know, yeah, forgoing anything of

27:13

that, you know, being able to move back

27:15

to node or even to Dino 17000 people

27:17

said no JS 48 wrote in Cloudflare workers.

27:26

So that's a write in is obviously lower.

27:28

But do you think

27:30

people who write Cloudflare workers think

27:33

that they're writing Cloudflare code? Because

27:35

in my head, I just think that I'm running. I

27:39

don't know JavaScript code JavaScript. Yeah, I

27:41

wouldn't call it node. I

27:43

would assume a lot of people who might even

27:45

answer this might not even have like a firm

27:47

understanding of their run times and

27:49

what their yeah. Oh, we're using the

27:52

same same name cup. We got our big cups here.

27:54

Man, we are just like just

27:56

got it all right now. We showed up to this

27:59

recording wearing the same. and I had to change. So.

28:03

I had like a modal dialogue open, so

28:05

it like was covering Scott's face. And I

28:08

just saw the same t-shirt and we were

28:10

like pointed the same way. And I thought

28:12

something happened when my video were duplicated, but

28:14

it was just Scott. Great.

28:20

Edge and serverless run times, 33%

28:22

on Lambda, 24% on Vercel Edge. Oh,

28:27

here we go. 16% on Cloudflare

28:29

workers. So I guess

28:31

people think, yeah, maybe that's more of

28:33

a serverless runtime than a JavaScript runtime.

28:35

I don't know if that's, but

28:38

I'm actually surprised by this is

28:41

that Cloudflare workers is almost the

28:43

same as Netlify at

28:45

11% Azure functions, 9% digital ocean functions. That's

28:51

something I have not tried out yet is

28:53

digital oceans to any implementation of functions just

28:55

yet. Yeah. You know,

28:57

digital ocean is a platform I think about for VPS,

29:00

they're like whole app platform thing I have not

29:03

really dove into at all. Yeah, I tried

29:05

it once when I was trying

29:07

to deploy my server and I realized like,

29:10

oh, I gotta pay twice because I had

29:12

a backend and a front end. And

29:14

I was like, VPS is kind of better because

29:18

you can run as many apps as you want on that.

29:21

Yeah. Obviously it doesn't come with all the niceties,

29:23

like the auto build and cut

29:25

over and staging

29:27

URLs, all that nice stuff. Yeah.

29:31

Let's talk about backend frameworks, which

29:33

is interesting because Express is still

29:35

king, 73% response, which is wild

29:38

to me. I get there's a lot of people who

29:40

have built on Express. I'm still on

29:42

Express and I'll tell you what. Wow. I'll

29:45

tell you why I'm not

29:47

off of Express. First, the

29:49

server is often, everything

29:52

is built around that. I

29:55

think it's very hard to move that

29:57

type of thing away, especially

29:59

because for me at least a lot of

30:01

my middleware a lot

30:03

of my auth and all of that it's

30:05

all based on connect

30:09

which is the request the response you

30:12

have that next middle where and and

30:14

moving off of that is kind

30:16

of tricky especially because a lot

30:19

of the other features Hanoj ask is

30:21

probably the closest thing to it they

30:24

don't implement that as well however now

30:26

that we have the async

30:28

local storage API I've

30:30

been moving all of

30:32

my middleware of sticking data

30:34

on the request I've been

30:36

moving it to a single storage which allows you

30:39

to share data between function

30:41

calls so if you have a middleware

30:43

function that runs and then later on you have another

30:45

middleware function that runs you can put

30:47

everything in a store and just access it without

30:49

having to pass it in and that has been

30:52

really really nice so and so

30:55

that's my one reason the other reason is people

30:57

are not mad at

30:59

Express you know people don't have Express

31:01

pain I think that the only pain

31:03

I'm starting to feel is that is

31:05

it's not a standardized web

31:08

request it's not a request yeah it's

31:10

a it's an express request I

31:12

want to move everything it's not

31:15

though like I my website is fast as

31:17

hell you know like yeah you can look

31:19

at the the graphs and see that there's

31:21

20 million requests it's

31:23

you can do a thousand times more

31:25

and other ones but I don't think

31:27

people that have apps in

31:29

Express see that or

31:32

actually run into it right like my website

31:34

our websites are fast as hell you know

31:36

and I've got caching in place and things

31:38

like that the only reason why

31:40

I want to move off of it express now

31:42

is because a lot of the

31:44

new stuff using a fetch request send a

31:47

fetch request from the client to the server

31:49

oh now I got a like if

31:51

it was just a web request I would have

31:54

the request from the client would be the same

31:56

as the server and now I got to convert

31:58

it to the Express version, you

32:00

know, and that's a bit of a pain. Yeah,

32:02

it's interesting to see Nest at number two here.

32:04

I always figured Nest was a little bit more

32:06

niche, but it does a little bit more for

32:09

you. It's definitely one of those ones that the

32:11

Angular folks are all definitely on. So that tracks

32:13

because Angular has a lot of usage. Fastify

32:16

at number three. Nice to see. I've always

32:18

loved working in Fastify. Strapi, Koa,

32:20

Happy. These are none of the ones that I've

32:22

I feel like these got to be like a

32:24

little bit legacy because you

32:27

don't hear that much about them these days, but

32:29

they have been existing for a long time. Meteor.

32:31

Yeah, it's interesting to still

32:34

see things like we talked about maybe

32:36

perhaps like Redwood or Sales or some

32:38

of these being so much lower or

32:40

even, you know, the much

32:43

hyped up Eliza JS

32:45

is super low on this, which it goes

32:47

to show you that like Twitter

32:50

hype ain't everything. No, I would

32:52

expect Hano and Eliza to be

32:54

much higher. And I'm also surprised

32:57

to see I think Strapi. Directus

33:01

Redwood are the are the only three

33:04

keystones on here. The

33:07

only three like CMS is, you know, the

33:10

rest of them are just

33:12

like server frameworks. Oh, sales is on

33:14

there, too. Yep. Yep. Sales

33:17

cool. All right. Let's what

33:19

do we got next? Non JavaScript languages. OK, don't

33:21

did you don't look at this? I want to

33:23

I want you to guess. What

33:25

are the top five

33:28

non JavaScript languages used by people in

33:30

the survey? The

33:32

top five. Do I have to guess them in order? No,

33:35

just if you will try,

33:37

but I won't. I want to

33:39

have five non JavaScript

33:43

languages. So.

33:45

All right.

33:48

Python, a lot of AI. Number one,

33:51

44 percent. I'm

33:53

surprised that's that's very

33:56

high. Yeah, I mean, there's

33:58

a lot of stuff written in Python. Yeah.

34:01

You know, you'd probably have to say PHP,

34:03

obviously. Yeah. Number two, 31 percent. Feel

34:06

like Ruby has to be here still. Uh,

34:10

man, Ruby number 10. You've

34:13

got to be kidding me. Really? Number 10, 9 percent. But

34:16

I think that that shows more

34:18

of Ruby being its own ecosystem.

34:20

Yeah, I agree. Versus instead of

34:23

JavaScript. People not actually using Ruby

34:25

because I think Ruby is Ruby

34:27

is below Kotlin and

34:29

bash. Yeah. What? You know, there's no that's

34:31

not no. That's just usage

34:34

in the JavaScript world. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That

34:36

makes sense. OK, so I got three of

34:38

them or I got two of them. Um,

34:42

I have no idea. C sharp. We just talked about

34:45

C sharp. C sharp. Number four. Actually, I

34:47

had. I sat

34:49

next. I had dinner with Bruno from Century

34:51

and he does all the C sharp stuff

34:54

and he's like, C sharp is

34:57

way cooler than you think. And I

34:59

said, do I have to get a

35:01

Windows laptop to use it? And he

35:03

goes, no, you know, like, like that's

35:05

what people think of C sharp. Like,

35:07

you got to like use this light

35:09

theme, Windows XP, Dell

35:11

latitude to use it. Obviously,

35:14

it's not. So I think we should do

35:16

a show on that. I

35:18

have somebody on. I think it'd be kind of cool. I know you

35:20

and you and CJ were talking about it as well. Yeah.

35:23

Yeah. CJ was schooling me a bit.

35:25

All right. Let's let's. I

35:28

feel like you know these last

35:30

ones, but yeah. Yeah. Number three.

35:32

Java. What's the Java

35:35

law? Yeah. Yeah.

35:37

Yeah. That makes sense. Number five,

35:39

Bash. That doesn't make sense. And

35:41

Bash is higher than Go and Rust. Yeah.

35:44

Go and Rust are so little niche, but

35:46

I yeah. I am surprised to see that

35:49

at least Go isn't higher than Bash, although

35:51

I do write a fair amount of Bash.

35:53

I guess if you think of it as

35:55

like these are languages of people who write

35:58

JavaScript. Yeah. Probably who are very heavy. JavaScript,

36:01

what are the other languages that they

36:03

will reach for? And yeah, go bash,

36:05

Rust. Those are things that you reach

36:07

for when you need tooling in that

36:09

area. Yeah, interesting. Hosting

36:12

service. Number one hosting service. Forty

36:15

seven percent is AWS for sale.

36:17

Very close behind at forty five

36:19

percent. Get up pages. Number

36:22

three. Okay. I've

36:25

never hosted anything on GitHub pages, so

36:27

I don't understand. But I do, but

36:29

it has to be unless you're using

36:31

their like weird Ruby static site builder,

36:34

you have to have like a build

36:36

step that outputs HTML. Yeah,

36:39

I use it for all my conference

36:41

talks like the syntax live. Those run

36:43

on GitHub pages, but it's just HTML.

36:46

Right. Nellify number

36:48

four, Heroku still. Heroku

36:52

is still number 20, number five at

36:54

twenty five percent. Man, it just

36:56

goes to show you if you could get enough market share,

37:00

you'll be you'll be cruising forever

37:02

because I can't imagine deploying on

37:04

Heroku today. I see. That's why

37:06

all these companies

37:08

give you cheap and

37:10

free hosting. Yes. For a couple

37:12

of years. And then

37:15

like once you're there, same thing with like

37:17

GoDaddy, you know, I

37:19

have a Bluehost thing that I pay like one hundred and

37:22

twenty dollars a year for. And

37:24

I don't even have any of my

37:26

own websites on it. I've got my wife's site on

37:28

it and my dad has like eight different sites on

37:31

it. And I still pay for

37:33

it every single year. You know, like that's why Bluehost

37:35

had such a high. I remember they were giving people

37:37

a hundred bucks. If you sign somebody up for Bluehost,

37:39

they were giving me a hundred bucks. If I

37:41

sign people. Yeah, yes. Yeah, it's

37:44

wild. And the reason is, is because

37:46

once you got stuff on there, man, you're

37:49

just not worth moving it. Yeah,

37:51

for real. And you know, it is it's wild

37:53

to see that Heroku is ahead of Cloudflare and

37:55

Digital Ocean. Yeah, you know, it's not it's not

37:57

surprising to see it ahead of like some. of

38:00

the smaller smaller guys like,

38:02

you know, fly.io or render

38:04

or a railway or

38:07

one of those, but Het'sner is starting to

38:09

get up here. No Het'sner the big challenge

38:11

with Het'sner is even getting an account on

38:13

there. I was like, they,

38:15

their security is so intense. I had to like

38:17

send a DM and, um, give them the blood

38:19

of my first born child to get an account

38:21

on there. But I do have a server on

38:23

Het'sner now and it's, it's really nice. So I'm

38:26

a big fan of Het'sner because I have an

38:28

arm and arm based server on there and it

38:30

super slick for really cheap. Yeah, that's great. What

38:32

else is on here? Azure, Google cloud 1918. I

38:35

think those are a

38:37

little bit more like corporate. I think, you know,

38:39

I think a lot more people host on those

38:41

than we think, but generally

38:43

that's like the infrastructure team running

38:45

those and they're not taking JavaScript

38:48

surveys. Yeah. Uh,

38:50

usage, TypeScript, JavaScript balance, 32%

38:53

100% TypeScript, 80% TypeScript skewed way

38:59

more to TypeScript than I was expecting.

39:01

Yeah. Yeah. I

39:03

remember last year we were surprised at it every single year

39:06

it goes. And like, if you were to

39:08

look at like eight

39:10

and nine, the top two ones,

39:12

they're so much bigger than the

39:15

rest of the respondents here. So

39:17

it's, it's almost at a point where I

39:19

would say like most people are using TypeScript,

39:22

which is, it's wild to think, you know, I

39:24

mean, given that when we started this show, it

39:27

wasn't a thing. And then like a few years

39:29

into the show, we were like, which one's gonna,

39:31

what else? It's gonna be flow TypeScript or reason.

39:33

And at that point it wasn't even clear. And

39:35

now it's like TypeScript is so ubiquitous. I don't

39:37

even, I don't start a

39:40

project without TypeScript these days.

39:42

Yeah. And I haven't for a

39:44

while. And honestly, I don't necessarily get the grumbling

39:46

about it. To me, it's like TypeScript is a

39:49

fancy linter that helps me out when I need

39:51

it. That's pretty nice.

39:54

Nine percent of respondents don't use

39:57

TypeScript, like, like a hundred percent

39:59

JavaScript. So yeah, that's

40:02

that's good. That's very very

40:04

impressed JavaScript usage

40:06

98% doing front-end

40:08

dev that doesn't track with the JavaScript

40:10

runtime ones we had earlier 67%

40:14

back-end 27% mobile 20% desktop app That's

40:20

really cool. We're having the to be folks

40:22

on which they build a app

40:25

for all the TVs like

40:27

if you have a Samsung or LG or whatever If

40:30

you want an app to run on all these

40:32

TVs are all built in JavaScript And

40:35

I am very excited about that. Yeah, I

40:37

I met one of the Tory guys at

40:39

JS nation We should have him on the

40:42

show. Oh awesome. Yes. Yeah. Yeah We're

40:44

talking quite a bit about the challenges and some

40:46

of the cool stuff They're doing over there with

40:48

with desktop app. So, you know,

40:50

I I like building desktop apps

40:53

using JavaScript because you can lock into Specific features,

40:55

you know if you're shipping on a web view,

40:57

you know exactly which features are there Browser compatibility

40:59

goes out the the window. You don't have to

41:01

worry about it as much Did

41:04

you look at the missing features in

41:07

in JavaScript? What would you say the

41:09

number one missing feature in Java? Oh,

41:11

I didn't look at it. Okay number

41:13

one missing feature. I'm gonna say types Yes,

41:16

I was gonna say about the conversation. We just had

41:19

about TypeScript being okay, so I was gonna say it

41:21

But I was like, I don't know but yeah built-in

41:23

types to 57 percent

41:25

of respondents said types number two

41:28

Standard library three better date management. Hey,

41:30

that's coming that one's gonna be solved

41:32

folks I feel like percent of you

41:35

you can use the polyfill today. It's great I

41:37

feel like the standard lib and the date

41:39

management Have gotten so

41:42

much better in the last three or four years.

41:44

So I'd be curious to see this versus

41:47

previous years or or we'll take a

41:49

look at it next year to see

41:52

because Man standard lib the

41:54

low dash usage we didn't go over this

41:56

one But low dash usage is still date

41:58

functions and low dashes still a huge,

42:01

huge, huge. And not

42:04

that you shouldn't use those. They're great libraries, and

42:07

we use them as well on

42:09

things. But I find myself reaching for

42:12

them less and less, not because I

42:14

don't like them, because I don't need

42:16

them. Yeah. Yeah,

42:18

I don't need them is really what it

42:20

comes down to. What's wild to me about

42:22

this is that for all the hype around

42:24

signals, it's only 26 people

42:27

responded saying signals. Only

42:29

26 individuals responded saying signals when there

42:31

is serious talk about adding it to

42:34

the language. So that's crazy to me. I want

42:36

signals. Pattern matching is really high up in here

42:38

too. Pattern matching is great. We've seen pattern matching

42:40

being really nice and rust. A lot of people

42:43

have noticed that. So I think

42:45

pattern matching would be cool. Observables,

42:47

pipe operators are in here. Immutable

42:51

data structures, 26% want them.

42:54

The pipe operator I want all the time. I want

42:56

it all the time, yeah. Sometimes

42:58

you're doing a map filter reduce,

43:01

and you have this beautiful chain, and

43:03

then you want to stick that in a

43:05

variable. Or I do this a lot in the JavaScript

43:08

console, in the browser where I want to

43:10

copy the output. And there's a function in

43:13

the dev tool is called copy. And

43:15

you can just wrap it in a copy, and

43:17

it will throw it in your clipboard. But in

43:19

Bash, you can simply pipe to PB copy, and

43:24

it will throw it in your clipboard. And I often think, I don't

43:27

want to wrap this whole thing in a copy, I

43:29

want to pipe to copy. And

43:31

I would love to have the

43:34

pipe operator. I

43:36

wonder where that's at. Bro, I'm just

43:38

looking at this, and the proposal pipeline

43:40

operator feels like

43:42

pretty stagnant. I

43:45

don't have no idea what the conversations around

43:47

this are, but the

43:49

official changes thread was last

43:52

updated August 2022. Yeah,

43:56

what's up with this? I

43:59

think we should get somebody. Who knows exactly what's

44:01

going on? Yeah, you can often go through the

44:03

TC39 meeting notes to see. Yeah.

44:07

So it's at stage two, which is just

44:09

in draft mode. So maybe

44:12

sometimes these go

44:14

away for a while because they

44:17

say they go through the stages where

44:20

they say, okay, you know what? This

44:22

is a good idea to add to the

44:24

language. Now let's go off and draft the

44:26

spec. And that's what takes the

44:28

longest is what does this look like?

44:31

What happens in this case? What are all the test

44:33

cases? So maybe it's in a

44:35

spot right now where

44:37

it is being drafted up. Yeah. It

44:40

just feels like most of the comments or

44:42

anything on there are like from 2021, 2022. You

44:47

know, I know a lot of the stuff happens

44:49

offline or off of these GitHub

44:51

issues. So it'd be really interesting to see what

44:54

is actually going on. If you're someone out there and

44:56

you know the status of what's going on, leave it,

44:58

leave a comment or hit us up on Twitter or

45:01

whatever. I'm very interested to know what the status of

45:03

this is. Industry sector. I

45:06

find this interesting. Like what industries are people working

45:08

in? Right? 46%

45:10

in programming and technical tools. Does

45:13

that mean that half of the

45:15

people that take this thing are just building

45:17

more JavaScript for the JavaScript people? Oh,

45:20

yeah. That's kind of, that's kind of

45:22

interesting. And technical tools and

45:24

then 33% consulting and services. That

45:26

makes sense, right? You

45:29

build apps for clients, 27% e-commerce

45:31

and retail. That's something I think

45:34

we don't talk about enough is

45:36

like how big e-com

45:38

is in this industry, right? It's

45:41

giant. 17% finance, 16% education, 16%

45:43

marketing, sales and analytics tools. I

45:50

would have thought that would be

45:53

a bit higher. I think people

45:55

who work on apps put

45:57

themselves in that first one, you know? work

46:00

for a company that builds an app for

46:03

insurance, you know, quotes, you

46:05

know, where would you put

46:07

yourself in there? In

46:09

terms of probably technical tools. Oh,

46:12

is there insurance on here? No, I don't know. There

46:14

is. There is 49 percent. Okay. But

46:17

insurance is big. Remember we

46:20

met. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

46:23

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

46:26

Yeah. Yeah. So

46:28

they had something like 3000 developers

46:31

that were deploying serverless functions

46:33

every single day. Yeah.

46:35

It's a big world insurance. It's a big

46:37

world. I know. Yeah. For

46:40

real. Healthcare, media, government,

46:42

social media, cybersecurity, 4 percent.

46:45

So most people working on, I think

46:47

it's safe to say that most people

46:50

are either building apps for people or

46:52

working on applications for customers or

46:54

building an e-comm

46:57

website. Yeah. Yeah.

46:59

For sure. Cool.

47:01

Well, that's really interesting. I love this survey every single

47:03

year. Again, it gives us a good indicator. You know,

47:05

we can all get ourselves into little bubbles and it's

47:07

easy to like be in your Twitter

47:11

bubble where everybody is suggesting that this

47:13

thing is the second coming or something and

47:15

it's incredible and whatever. You look on here

47:18

and it has 10 respondents saying they use

47:20

it. So it's important definitely to get

47:23

your mind in a recalibrated way with these

47:25

kind of surveys and also be

47:27

cognizant of the fact that, hey, the survey

47:29

is a result of the people who responded

47:31

to the survey, not a result of every

47:34

single person in our industry overall.

47:37

Can we do the finish up with the awards real

47:39

quick? Oh, let's do that. Let's

47:42

do it. All right. We both get

47:44

to guess the most adopted technology, awarded

47:46

to the technology with the largest year

47:49

over year progression. Vite.

47:54

Oh, yeah. I think it was Vite last year too,

47:56

wasn't it? It's got to be Vite. Yeah. Most

47:59

adapted. I'm going to say bun. Veet,

48:02

you got it. Highest

48:06

retention awarded to the technology with the

48:08

highest percentage of returning users. Veet.

48:12

Just riding, riding Veet on those things. I'm

48:15

going to say next yes. Veet.

48:20

This is doing me good too for two. A

48:22

runner is up. So 98% of

48:25

developers are using Veet again. Number

48:28

two, 96% is V test. V

48:31

test? How do you say that? V

48:34

test. And number three, play right 95% are using it again.

48:37

That must feel good to have people

48:39

love your tech so much. Highest

48:42

interest awarded to technology developers are

48:44

most interested in learning once they

48:46

are aware of it. That's

48:49

a tough one for me. This

48:52

is a tough one. Because

48:54

so many of these little things, the

48:57

deal in small numbers even if it is. Yeah, and

48:59

it's like often small little feature. I'm

49:03

going to say bun. You're

49:10

going to say bun. I'm going to say solid.

49:16

V test. V test. Really?

49:19

V test. Most

49:22

write-ins awarded to the item with the most

49:24

write-in answers. Okay, so this one can't be

49:26

V. It's

49:30

going to be V. The

49:32

most write-in answers. Oof.

49:35

Oof, oof, oof. I

49:39

don't know. I couldn't tell you. Hanoh. I'm

49:42

going to say quick. Bun. Ah,

49:44

I think that's bun for all of

49:47

them. The one time you

49:49

didn't say bun. Okay, that's right. So

49:51

runner up and Ember 81. Ember.

49:54

Wow. Ember is still unexpected. Yeah, well

49:56

I think that's almost a bummer that it's. not

50:00

even an option to choose anymore.

50:04

Most commented library, awardees library,

50:06

which received the most comments,

50:08

Next.js for sure. Reactor Next.js,

50:10

yeah. React. Yeah.

50:12

Yes, I'm good at this. And most

50:14

loved library, awardees to technology with the

50:17

highest proportion of positive opinions, V is

50:19

V. It's

50:21

all V. Yes. Wow.

50:25

Just in React number

50:27

two and three. Okay,

50:29

cool. Okay. And oh,

50:31

that last one, Next.js was number

50:34

two and Storybook number three. Sick.

50:37

People loving it. Awesome. Well, that was super

50:39

fun. I really enjoyed that. Let's move into

50:42

some sick bits and shims. Oh wait, before

50:44

we do, number

50:47

one on the podcast, once again, guys. Oh,

50:49

yes. Syntax. Woo hoo. Yeah,

50:52

so shout out to everybody who wrote syntax

50:54

in here or this, yeah, thank

50:56

you so much for that. It's

50:58

incredible every single year to see us

51:01

be at the top here. So

51:03

it's shocking. So thank you so much. I

51:06

appreciate everybody who does that. Yeah,

51:09

there's so much more stuff on here. A lot that we

51:11

didn't even go into. So check

51:13

it out, 2023.stateofjs.com. They

51:17

run state of CSS, state of HTML.

51:19

The HTML one this year was super

51:21

interesting because you think like HTML, like

51:23

what, you got a new tag, you

51:25

know? But HTML has so

51:28

many new interesting features

51:30

coming up and big

51:33

fan, big fan. All right, what do you

51:35

got for a sick pic today? Oh,

51:37

sick pic. Hey, I feel like I

51:39

have a lot of sick pics because there's

51:41

some of them that I wanted to share

51:43

or wait until you were back because I

51:45

felt like you would specifically appreciate them. One

51:48

of the cool things that I got was

51:50

a digital, I don't know, digital is the

51:52

right word, a

51:54

rechargeable lighter. So

51:56

you know, you have those like gas lighters, you click and,

51:58

pfft, Yeah. To fireplace or

52:00

something like that. I got

52:02

one that is a USB C

52:05

chargeable lighter and it just

52:07

has a little electricity burst between, like a little

52:09

taser between two posts and they're like

52:12

15 bucks or something. They're super

52:14

cheap charges with the USB C.

52:17

Um, you can light your fire

52:19

pit or your, uh, fireplace. If

52:21

you got one, you can light

52:23

birthday candles, anything. And

52:25

you never have to worry about it running out

52:27

of gas or collecting those around or any of

52:30

that stuff. So there's a ton of them on

52:32

Amazon or whatever. I'll link to the one that

52:34

I got, but man, I've been using this thing

52:36

all the time. It's one of those like little

52:38

cheap, cheapo gadgets you can get that

52:40

you can just have around the house and never have

52:42

to worry about having a, an

52:44

actual like flame based lighter around

52:47

there again. Oh, that's awesome.

52:49

I, uh, many, many years ago,

52:51

I was just looking back at 20 episode

52:53

two, 14, I sick picked a

52:56

torch lighter, which is, I think it's

52:58

meant for lighting. Cigars. Um,

53:00

it doesn't run, it's not electrical, but it

53:03

runs on butane, which you got to refill

53:05

it every couple months. But my

53:07

wife loves it because she lights a lot of

53:09

candles and it's just like,

53:11

it feels really nice. It's like aluminum and

53:14

you don't have to like fuss around with the click,

53:16

click, click, click, click. Like it always works. It has

53:18

a really nice strong, um, to,

53:21

to light it up and even lighten the barbecue.

53:23

It's been such a nice thing. We've had it

53:26

for probably four or five years. And every time

53:28

we use it, we're like, this is so good.

53:31

You might like one of these things too. I,

53:33

when I said it was 10 bucks, I was

53:35

wrong. It's actually 599 and it's a little like

53:37

it's a long, so you don't have to be

53:39

near it when you're lighting it. And, and, oh,

53:41

okay. Oh

53:43

yeah. I see that it kind of rules. Yeah. So

53:45

you may be, maybe a nice little candle lighter for

53:47

you. And then you have to deal with flames when

53:50

you're starting your flame. Yeah.

53:53

So, well, you got flames anyways. I

53:56

don't, I think this would be

53:58

really nice at the cottage because. it like

54:00

will always work, right? Especially when it's windy,

54:03

you know, like you don't have to worry

54:05

about the wind blowing it out. That's always

54:07

super annoying with those crappy little barbecue lighters.

54:10

I'm going to sick pick a toy

54:12

that I stole from my kids. And

54:15

that is you might have seen me playing with it. It's

54:18

called a monkey noodle. And

54:20

if you fidget at your desk like

54:23

I do, it's nice

54:25

to have a quiet toy rather than

54:27

something. Sometimes I'm playing with stuff here

54:29

at my desk and I'm thinking, I'm

54:31

sorry, Randy, like you probably hear me

54:33

dropping something on my desk and it's

54:35

it hurts the audio, right? And my

54:37

kids have all these like

54:39

little, you know, those like pop it's

54:41

and what are those called? Like

54:44

sensory toys? Push them in. Yeah, yeah,

54:46

yeah. Yeah. And they have these like

54:48

monkey noodles, which is just a little

54:51

silicone booger. And

54:53

I love just playing with it and

54:55

just tying it and moving around. I've

54:57

been playing with it this whole episode.

55:00

So if you need some

55:02

sort of something to do with your hands

55:04

while you're while you're working, check out grab

55:06

a monkey noodle. Yeah, that

55:08

it's not surprising that you would like that. And

55:10

in fact, somebody left a comment on one of

55:12

our videos when I was with CJ here in

55:14

the past couple of episodes. And they're like, since

55:17

the move to video, it's become increasingly

55:20

obvious that Scott has ADHD. Because

55:22

I'm just like. Moved

55:25

around the whole episode. Yeah. Oh, yeah. The

55:27

video. Another thing is I had

55:30

a chipped tooth for I

55:32

had chipped tooth for like probably like eight years. And

55:34

I never really got it fixed. And

55:36

then I whenever I see a tick

55:39

tock, I'm like, oh, I should probably get my my

55:41

chipped tooth fixed and somebody

55:44

commented, Wes, did you chip your tooth? And

55:46

I was like, yeah, like eight

55:49

years ago. And I'm getting it

55:51

fixed next week and I got a fix this

55:53

morning. So what? Oh, yeah,

55:55

that's crazy. That's just so wild. Yeah,

55:58

they just had a whole bunch of. and two

56:00

stuff on. You got two.

56:03

I chip mine on a pita chip.

56:06

Oh, yeah. Which which one,

56:08

like a front one? Yeah, the front

56:10

two words I chipped out on this Stacey's

56:12

giant pita chip that was

56:14

apparently like a piece of concrete. Oh,

56:17

man. And so did they have to like build it

56:19

up? And yeah, yeah, that's right. And

56:21

the edge to yeah. I

56:24

know it sucks. It's wild. Cool.

56:27

Shameless plugs. Check us out

56:30

at the swag store. Go to century dot

56:32

shop or go to syntax out of FEM

56:34

and click on swag in the top corner.

56:37

We've got all kinds of really cool stuff.

56:39

We've got these new t-shirts. There's four new

56:41

t-shirts that are going to be up there.

56:44

We got a couple skate decks left. We

56:46

got a couple of basketballs. We got the

56:48

coups, the can koozies on

56:50

there. We are all out of yetis, which we

56:52

realize we were selling the yetis for cheaper than

56:54

you can buy a yeti in the store. So

56:58

they're all gone. But

57:00

we have some can koozies and whatnot.

57:02

And we've got some really

57:05

almost just said what we what we

57:07

ordered. But we have some really cool

57:09

stuff coming down the pipe as well. So check it

57:11

on out. Grab some stuff before it's

57:13

all gone. Sick. All

57:16

right. Thanks for tuning in. Peace.