0:07

Welcome to the Talks at Google Podcast,

0:09

where great minds meet. I'm

0:11

Kyle, bringing you this week's episode

0:13

with adventurer Andrew Skurka. Talks

0:16

at Google brings the world's most

0:18

influential thinkers, creators, makers, and doers

0:20

all to one place. Every

0:23

episode is taken from a video that

0:25

can be seen at youtube.com/talks at

0:27

Google. Renowned long

0:29

distance backpacker Andrew Skurka visits Google

0:32

to discuss the gear, supplies, and

0:34

skills necessary to make hiking fun

0:36

instead of a chore. Described by

0:38

National Geographic as one of the best

0:40

traveled and fastest hikers on the planet

0:42

and named Adventurer of the Year by

0:45

Outside and Person of the Year by

0:47

Backpacker magazine, Skurka recounts what he's learned

0:49

from more than 30,000 miles of

0:51

long distance adventures, most recently a 4,700

0:54

mile six month loop around Alaska

0:56

and Canada's Yukon. Whether

0:59

you're a first time backpacker, an occasional

1:01

weekend warrior, or a seasoned long distance

1:03

trekker, you'll love this guide. Learn

1:06

exactly what you need to carry, both on

1:08

your back and between your ears, for all

1:10

seasons and circumstances through a show and tell

1:12

of clothing, footwear, backpacks, shelter and

1:14

sleep systems, and more. As

1:16

well as through detailed articles on foot

1:18

care, campsite selection, and hiking efficiency.

1:22

Skurka's practical recommendations give you all

1:24

the tools and techniques you'll need to succeed on

1:26

the trail. Originally

1:29

published in April of 2012, here is

1:31

Andrew Skurka, the ultimate hiking

1:33

guide and skills clinic. Hi

1:40

everybody, thank you for showing up today. I

1:43

see we've got a full house, which is awesome. I

1:45

can see you guys are very excited about Andrew's

1:47

talk today as I am. Andrew

1:50

Skurka is kind enough to join us today. He

1:53

is a trekker, as many of you probably know,

1:55

described as Adventurer of the Year by

1:58

Outside a

2:00

Superman Among Trekkers by National Geographic.

2:03

He's gone on a number of long treks all

2:06

across the country. And

2:08

we're very happy to have him today to talk about his new book

2:11

and go over

2:13

the clinic. So thank you,

2:15

Andrew. And here you go. OK. Cool.

2:18

Thank you. So

2:25

I say I never expected to get a

2:27

standing room only turnout at Google. So thanks

2:29

very much for coming out, I guess. And

2:32

thank you, Andrew, for organizing it. I'm

2:34

not sure how it normally works if you want

2:36

to speak here at Google. But I'm thankful that

2:38

my sister and brother-in-law are friends with Andrew. And

2:40

Andrew was able to push it on through the

2:42

system and get this thing going today. So

2:45

today's clinic is going to be mostly about backpacking

2:47

gear supplies and skills. I give another presentation where

2:49

I tell a lot more stories, but today I

2:51

want to give you guys some how-to

2:53

information so that you guys can go out

2:55

there and enjoy your own backpacking trips a

2:57

little bit more. Let's

3:01

go ahead and just walk through what

3:03

we're going to do. So the first thing, just quickly,

3:05

a quick introduction. I want to understand

3:07

who you guys are and what sort of backpacking you

3:09

do and what sort of backpacking you

3:11

want to do. And I'll give you a

3:13

little bit of context for who I am, too. And

3:16

then I'll introduce three questions that I always ask

3:18

before I go on any backpacking trip. And those

3:20

three questions are really helpful in understanding

3:23

the gear supplies and skills that I'll need once

3:25

I get out there. And then the bulk of

3:27

the presentation will be on

3:29

the stuff that I have in front of me here,

3:31

where we'll come up with a hypothetical trip that everyone

3:33

can relate to. So for example, we'll say, we're

3:35

going to go for a four day trip in the high

3:37

Sierra in August. And we'll talk about the

3:39

conditions that we're going to experience on a trip like that. And

3:42

then we'll talk about the gear that I would take with me

3:45

on such a trip. So let me

3:48

start off with you guys. Why don't someone

3:50

be willing to raise their hand, tell me who they

3:52

are, what sort of backpacking you do, and what

3:55

you'd like to get out of the clinic today.

3:57

Yes, sir. My name's Justin. I'm

3:59

a former third hiker. Okay, I'll do my

4:01

best to address some of the families.

4:17

I have to say that without a wife or

4:19

children, it would be a little bit difficult, but

4:21

I can

4:23

wonder. Who else? One

4:28

more person? Yes? My

4:30

name is Tawqin. I'm interested in a lightweight backpacking. Okay. So

4:32

what's your minimum, what's the minimum gear? So, what was your name again? Spas. Spas

4:42

is interested in basically knowing what the minimum amount of gear

4:44

you need to take out there is. Maybe

4:46

one more person? Yes. Okay.

4:49

So, you saw the five-year

4:51

form and the ex-loser, the

4:53

ex-boy scout, and now I'll

4:55

take her backpacker and

4:57

run it and work there. All

5:00

right, EJ,

5:02

basically interested in figuring out how

5:04

to lighten up his load and probably still be safe and

5:06

comfortable at the same time. Just

5:09

to give you guys some context

5:11

about where I'm coming from, I'm

5:13

known for doing really long, really

5:15

light, really fast, long-distance backpacking trips.

5:17

This was my first mega long-distance trip I

5:19

did back in 2004, 2005. It

5:22

was the sea-to-sea route. It was 7,800 miles. It

5:24

took me 11 months. I started up in Gassbe,

5:27

Quebec in August and finished in Cape

5:30

Lava in Washington in July, which

5:32

means I spent winter on the trail and I

5:35

snowshoeed 1,400 miles that winter through Michigan, Wisconsin, and

5:37

Minnesota during the months of January, February, and

5:39

March. My second mega long-distance trip was

5:41

the Great Western Loop. It was 6,875 miles in seven months.

5:46

I averaged 33 miles per day for 208 days. Then

5:50

my last big trip was the Alaska

5:53

Yukon Expedition, which was 4,700 miles in

5:55

six months. Skis,

5:58

foot, and pack rafts. And

6:01

that was in 2010. I've

6:03

done a bunch of shorter trips in between all those, but that

6:05

gives you a pretty good feel for where I'm coming at. And

6:08

then I should point out that

6:10

even though I'm known for doing these crazy

6:12

trips that not many people can relate to, I also

6:14

do a lot of these clinics. I

6:16

also guide trips. I answer

6:18

a lot of questions via email from people

6:21

who are much less experienced and who

6:23

don't have the ability to go out for six months at

6:25

a time. So I hope that I

6:27

can relate to you and give you some information that

6:29

is valuable. So

6:31

let me go over the three questions that

6:33

I always ask myself before I

6:35

go on a trip. The first one

6:38

is, what are my objectives? I think that's a really

6:40

important question that not too many people ask themselves. I'll

6:42

go a little bit into each question a little bit more

6:45

in a second. The second question I

6:47

ask myself is, what are the environmental

6:49

and root conditions that I'm going to

6:51

be encountering? So temperatures, precipitation, water availability,

6:53

wildlife, insects. And then the final

6:55

question that I always ask is, what are the gear supplies

6:57

and skills that I need to help achieve

6:59

my objectives while keeping me safe and

7:01

comfortable in those environmental and root conditions?

7:04

And the way I think about it, gear supplies and

7:06

skills are just tools. They're just enablers.

7:08

They're just means. But the

7:10

whole reason I go out there is for that

7:12

objective and whatever that is. So

7:15

let's talk about objectives a little bit. When

7:18

you're on a backpacking trip, you can basically break it down

7:20

in two different types of

7:22

activities. There's hiking and then there's camping. Hiking

7:24

is literally just putting one foot in front

7:27

of the other. And camping is either camping

7:29

or any extracurricular

7:31

activity that doesn't involve hiking.

7:33

So birding, journaling, bird watching,

7:35

hunting, fishing, photography.

7:39

And when I look at all

7:42

the backpackers out there, I kind of put

7:44

them into three different categories. The

7:47

first category I call an ultimate camper,

7:49

which is someone whose objective is basically just to

7:51

walk between campsites in order to do something else.

7:55

And it's

7:57

not really relevant that they know what sort environmental

8:00

and root conditions they're going to be getting themselves into because

8:02

they can carry as much as they possibly want. They're

8:04

not sharing it for very far. And

8:07

they also tend to carry really heavy,

8:09

luxurious, extraneous items. These are the people you

8:11

see set up in camp at like two

8:13

o'clock in the afternoon having a steak lunch.

8:17

They're basically mobile car campers, I think, maybe

8:19

a better way to describe them. And

8:24

when they go for a backpacking trip, they're in the pursuit

8:26

of type one fun, which I say is fun to do

8:28

and fun to talk about later, which

8:30

is very different than the way that an ultimate

8:32

hiker approaches a backpacking trip. So an ultimate hiker

8:35

looks something a little bit more like this. And

8:37

when they go on a backpacking trip, their primary objective is

8:40

to walk. And they need to

8:42

know the exact environmental and root conditions that

8:44

they're going to be encountering, because that way

8:46

they can take the

8:48

gear supplies and have the skills that they

8:50

need to be safe and comfortable in those

8:52

conditions. They optimize

8:54

their pack for the entreo experience. So

8:57

they're packing light, but they're not packing

8:59

stupid light. And

9:01

then maybe more importantly, they rely on

9:03

the stuff between their ears to keep themselves safe

9:05

and comfortable. So a great example of this is

9:09

when an ultimate hiker versus an ultimate camper

9:11

chooses a campsite. So an ultimate camper plods

9:14

along the trail, and after a couple

9:16

miles finds himself a campsite

9:18

that's right next to a water source that's

9:21

been camped on by tens of thousands of

9:23

other people. So it's denuded of topsoil or leaves

9:26

or anything like that. And

9:28

they set themselves up, and they create

9:30

this big sprawl of stuff. And then

9:33

they get out their really thick sleeping

9:35

pad and their double wall big

9:38

tent. And they hang out there, and then

9:40

they go to bed. Whereas an ultimate hiker, they'll hike all

9:42

day. And they'll choose a

9:44

campsite that very few people

9:46

have slept at, if any. So it has

9:48

this nice, thick bed

9:51

of needles or moss or leaves.

9:55

And they won't camp near a water source, because that's

9:57

where the bugs are. And it's also the water source.

9:59

or the drainage is usually where the

10:02

cold wet air accumulates at night. So they'll

10:04

camp somewhere else where it's drier, less

10:06

buggy, and warmer, and that

10:09

allows them to take less gear than they would

10:11

need otherwise. And then there

10:14

are an ultimate hikers in the pursuit of type

10:16

2 fun. Not fun to do, but fun to

10:18

talk about later. So it's kind

10:21

of the way like an athlete or a

10:23

runner approaches a marathon. There's nothing fun about

10:25

running a marathon. It's type 2 fun. I

10:27

mean it's something that like afterwards

10:29

that like that night when you're in the bar you can

10:32

be like wow that was remember at mile you know 22

10:35

where I vomited all over myself. That was awesome

10:37

man. And then there's

10:44

the third category of backpacker. I call them

10:46

a camper by default. And this is a

10:49

this is a classic shot. This is a picture of

10:51

a Boy Scout that was sent to me actually

10:53

last night. I just had to include it in this.

10:57

So they're probably they actually don't really understand their

10:59

primary objective. They haven't figured out whether they want

11:01

to go hiking or whether they want to go

11:03

camping. And even if they did think about that

11:06

they don't understand how that objective translates into the

11:08

gear supplies and skills that they need. And then

11:11

they don't understand what they're getting themselves into. So

11:13

they don't understand how cold it is, how much

11:15

how likely it is that it might rain,

11:17

what the what the the insect situation is going

11:20

to be. So they end up saying

11:22

well I don't really know what I'm getting myself into

11:24

so I'll take a lot of things just in the

11:26

grounds of what if or just in case because I

11:28

can't rule out those scenarios. They

11:31

take a lot of heavy stuff, stuff that's

11:33

really easy to use and stuff and just

11:35

too much stuff. And unfortunately

11:37

they oftentimes get them they oftentimes experience type

11:39

3 fun which is not fun to do and

11:42

it's not fun to talk about later either.

11:46

Which you might say well then how can that

11:48

be fun? But this

11:52

is an outdoor educator thing. Everything is fun

11:54

when you're outdoors. Okay

11:57

so the presentation today or this

11:59

clinic. It's designed for any backpacker who

12:01

wants to at least sometimes be more like an

12:03

ultimate hiker. I'm here to help you enjoy

12:06

your hiking experience more. I don't want it

12:08

to be an arduous activity between campsites. I

12:10

don't want you to sacrifice your comfort or your

12:13

safety if you want to enjoy that hiking experience.

12:16

Okay, let's talk about gear and supplies for a little bit.

12:18

I need some, this is kind of where the interaction

12:21

starts a little bit more. So put

12:24

yourself in the shoes of an ultimate hiker

12:26

and think about the characteristics of gear and

12:28

supplies that you're looking for.

12:32

Please offer me some characteristics. What do you guys think are

12:34

the most important things? Lightweight,

12:37

durability, depends

12:41

not necessarily. Multiuse.

12:46

Come on a few others. Yeah,

12:50

sure. Oh, yeah sufficient. Okay, so let me

12:53

run the list down. So

12:55

functionality is important, comfort, efficiency,

12:57

durability, reliability, ease of use, value cost,

12:59

and then lightweight but not stupid light.

13:01

These characteristics aren't that different from what

13:04

every other backpacker looks for. You

13:07

still, I

13:09

think the ultimate hiker thing oftentimes gets caught up

13:11

in this lightweight backpacking thing, which I understand, but

13:13

it's not all, I'm not, don't be blinded by

13:16

the weight of an item. So a great example

13:18

of that would be I once

13:20

did a, I was attempting a speed record on

13:22

a Colorado Trail which runs from Denver to Durango

13:24

and I expected it to take me about 11

13:26

days or 12 days and to save

13:29

weight I didn't carry a sleeping bag. And

13:33

that's a great example of being, of going

13:35

stupid light because I didn't sleep

13:37

at all the first three or four nights and I

13:40

was just so sort of incapacitated by not

13:43

being recovered at night that it undermined my

13:45

entire effort. So that's

13:47

uh And

13:51

then the, so the skills are what you carry

13:53

between your ears and for the

13:55

ultimate hiker skills are really important because we're carrying a

13:57

minimal amount of stuff, a lot of the stuff that

13:59

we use. use requires skills.

14:02

So this, I need some

14:05

interaction here, but what are the skills

14:07

that you need? If you want to carry down insulation instead of, say,

14:10

synthetic insulation, either in your sleeping bag or a

14:12

parka, what's the skill that you need? You

14:16

need to keep it dry, that's right. All right, if you

14:18

if you're gonna carry just enough food and water instead of

14:20

extra, what's the skill that you need? Planning.

14:23

And what was the other one? You

14:26

need to know what water is, that's right. Okay, if

14:28

you're gonna use a modular tarp system instead of a

14:30

double wall tent, what's the skill? Campsite

14:34

selection, that's right. Right, and

14:36

how to pitch it, absolutely, because it's not just as

14:38

easy as putting one pole in, another pole in, then

14:40

pop, the whole thing goes. If you're

14:42

gonna carry a minimal first aid kit instead of ambulance-worthy

14:45

supplies, what are the skills?

14:49

You know,

14:53

everyone laughs like, that's the best one. I mean, I

14:55

try not to ever use my first aid kit. I

14:58

don't want to be in a situation where I have to use

15:00

my first aid kit. So yeah, so it's decision-making. And then certainly,

15:02

if there is a

15:04

first aid situation, it's being resourceful and trying

15:07

to make do with what you have. If

15:10

you're gonna take a map and compass instead of a

15:12

GPS, what's the skill? Yeah,

15:15

navigating, knowing how to find north, knowing what

15:17

a contour line means. I

15:19

think you guys get the idea, but we'll go to this one.

15:21

If you're gonna carry a closed cell phone pad instead of a,

15:23

like, a plush inflatable, what's

15:26

the skill? Can't

15:29

slide collection. Yeah. Right,

15:34

clothing would certainly help. And then the other

15:36

one I've always heard is how to take

15:38

a sleeping pill for that one too, which

15:41

I wouldn't recommend, but it works.

15:45

Alright, so let's talk about these environmental

15:47

and root conditions. Whenever

15:49

I go on a trip, I do, you

15:51

know, I, before

15:53

my Alaska Yukon trip, I, it took me, so it's

15:56

a six-month-long trip, and it took me six months to

15:58

plan, and for about five of... Five months

16:00

of that, it was basically, the

16:02

entire trip existed on my computer in an

16:04

Excel spreadsheet, a National Geographic Toppo mapping

16:09

file and basically

16:11

a Google Earth file. But

16:14

a lot of it was spent looking

16:17

at these conditions and understanding what I would need

16:19

while I was out there. And

16:22

so we'll go through this list again

16:24

very shortly. But these are all

16:26

the things that I look at that inform the decisions

16:28

about the gear supplies and the skills that I need.

16:32

So now we need to come up with a

16:34

hypothetical trip. So I'm

16:37

looking for suggestions about where we should go, what

16:40

time of year we should go and for how long you guys

16:42

wanna go. And make it a trip that everyone can relate to.

16:44

So don't say like, Baffin Island in

16:46

January. I

16:49

think most take me. All right, Mount

16:52

Whitney. Okay, and how long do we wanna go

16:54

for? Two days. Two

16:56

days? Let's make it three. How

16:59

much vacation time do they give you guys around here? All

17:05

right, so three days and what time of year would you like to go?

17:09

August. August, does that sound good

17:11

to everybody? Let's go in

17:13

July. The bugs are worse in July.

17:16

So that gives me a little bit more. August, the

17:18

conditions are so good in the Sierra in August. That's

17:21

almost too easy. I mean, you can go up there with

17:24

not much more than a pocket knife and some fire

17:26

starter and you'll be okay. Okay.

17:30

I might've just exaggerated that, sorry.

17:36

All right, so let me go back

17:38

to this slide. Okay, so now we're gonna go

17:40

climb Mount Whitney and maybe do a little bit

17:42

more of a trip around Whitney. Three days, July.

17:44

Let's go in the middle of July. So

17:47

let's talk about the conditions that we're going to

17:49

encounter on this trip. So let's start with temperatures.

17:52

What are we looking at? 70s,

17:57

80s, probably. How would you find that out? Exactly.

18:02

There are weather stations all over the

18:05

Sierra. Look up, find a

18:07

weather station that's near Mount Whitney, look at

18:09

the historical weather data. Sometimes

18:11

you can find some like

18:14

the range on it. That'll give you a pretty good

18:16

feel for what the temperatures will be like. What sort

18:19

of precipitation will we have in July around the, near

18:21

Mount Whitney? Almost,

18:24

well, maybe.

18:27

If we do get rain on, what kind of rain is it going to be? It's

18:30

going to be a thunderstorm. So we have to at

18:32

least plan for that scenario. How

18:34

much daylight do we have? Quite

18:38

a bit. And the reason that daylight affects the

18:40

things that I'll

18:43

take with me is because in

18:45

the summertime, for example, let's say I'm

18:47

in Alaska in June, I don't have

18:49

to carry a headlamp with me. But

18:52

then if I'm in Minnesota in January,

18:54

then the days are really short and

18:56

I'm going to have to carry probably a couple of different

18:59

lights, extra batteries. And I'll probably also take a

19:01

slightly heavier sleeping bag and clothing system because I'll

19:03

spend a lot more time in camp and I

19:05

won't be able to rely on my body heat

19:08

to keep me quite as warm. What

19:10

sort of ground cover will we encounter in terms of, if

19:12

there are going to be snow cover, what

19:15

sort of, is it like nice groomed

19:17

trails? Are they rocky? Are they like nice and

19:20

soft? What's the, what's it like up there?

19:25

What's that? They have nice trails. Nice trails,

19:27

but they're pretty rocky. And

19:29

what about snow coverage in the middle of July

19:31

around Mount Whitney? Some near

19:33

the top. Some near the top,

19:36

but enough where, are you going to need

19:38

skis or snowshoes? Okay. And again, you could find

19:40

that out. There's a, the government runs a

19:42

service called the National Snow Analysis and you can look

19:44

it up and you can see where

19:46

the snow coverage is at a given time of year.

19:49

What sort of vegetation is there? It

19:56

depends on the elevation, so you could have got some

19:58

pine a little bit higher up, what happens. happens. Yeah,

20:01

you're well the tree line. So what's the sun

20:03

exposure like up there? It's

20:05

intense. You're at 13,000, 14,000 feet. There's no shading, so you

20:08

better be prepared for

20:12

that. How much water is there in the

20:14

middle of July around Mount Whitney? Lots.

20:17

Yeah, so you probably, you

20:19

won't have to carry much water, if any, at all. And

20:22

wildlife? What's that?

20:29

I heard mosquitoes. Right, so you'll definitely have

20:31

mosquitoes. Has anybody been in like peak mosquito

20:33

season up in the Sierra? Raise

20:35

their hand. Well, we can all sympathize

20:37

for each other. Yeah, they get pretty bad.

20:40

So you'd want to be prepared for that. And then what

20:42

about the wildlife? That's

20:44

right, there are bears. Are the bears problematic in

20:47

the Sierra? They

20:49

are definitely problematic. So if you look

20:51

up, go to the Sierra

20:53

Kings Canyon National Park website, they'll tell you,

20:55

yes, bears are a problem here. We require

20:59

all people who are climbing or all backpackers who

21:01

are going up Mount Whitney to carry a bear

21:03

canister, etc., etc. All right, how remote is Mount

21:05

Whitney? It's

21:08

more remote than here, but are

21:11

you going to have cell reception if you get

21:13

hurt? Is someone going to come up on you

21:15

within like half an hour? What's

21:19

the... Yeah, I

21:21

think it's pretty, it's heavily

21:23

traveled area. You're not

21:25

going to need a satellite phone. Your cell phone actually

21:27

will work from the top of Mount Whitney because you're

21:29

looking right down on Lone Pine. And

21:32

then any natural hazards we need to be

21:34

worried about? Big river fords, lightning, avalanches,

21:39

anything like that? Lightning

21:41

is definitely a concern. I don't think they're,

21:44

depending on the route that you're picking, there

21:46

probably are not big river ford problems on

21:48

this trip. Okay, so let's talk about

21:52

everything that I would take with me on this trip. And I'm

21:54

going to step away from this. So we'll

21:56

start off with clothing.

21:59

Yeah. Okay, clothing system

22:01

typically has three different pieces to

22:03

it. And each piece has a specific purpose,

22:05

but there's always a little bit of overlap.

22:07

So you have active layers, you have insulation,

22:09

and you have shelves. Your

22:12

active layers are designed to

22:16

manage moisture, protect your skin against sun, brush, bugs,

22:18

and then also to give you a little bit

22:20

of modesty. And the clothing system I would take

22:22

with me on this trip, or

22:25

the active layer I'd take with me

22:27

on this trip, I'll start off with

22:30

the top part. Because I am going to be dealing with bugs,

22:33

I would take a woven polyester and

22:35

nylon shirt. The bugs have

22:37

a hard time biting through a woven fabric, which

22:39

is different than

22:42

say this knit shirt, like

22:45

this polyester knit shirt. The bugs will

22:47

bite right through this. So

22:49

you can oftentimes find these woven shirts. They look

22:51

like kind of safari shirts or travel shirts, but

22:53

they're great for bugs. And

22:56

I would also make sure it's long sleeve, not only for

22:58

the bug protection, but also to protect my arms against the

23:00

sun as well. And then

23:02

on my bottoms, I would probably

23:04

wear a pair of lightweight polyester

23:07

or merino wool underwear.

23:10

Just boxer briefs would be fine. They're really light.

23:12

And then a pair of nylon woven trekking pants

23:14

like this. Again, this would be great for the

23:16

bugs. It keeps the sun off of my legs.

23:19

And if I was going to be doing any

23:21

off-shell travel, the pants were really nice when you're

23:24

beating through the brush as well. Your

23:26

legs won't get all chopped up. If

23:29

it were a different time of year, say

23:31

if you were going later in the

23:33

fall, like say the end of August

23:35

or September, I might at that

23:37

point just go with a short sleeve merino wool

23:39

or a polyester shirt like this one here or

23:42

a long sleeve. This tends to

23:44

breathe a lot better, so it's not quite as stuffy because

23:46

the fabric isn't quite as tight. But

23:48

the bugs will bite right through this, so I

23:51

wouldn't take this out until the bugs are

23:54

pretty much gone. Any

23:56

questions about what I would wear during the day? keep

24:00

on moving then. So

24:03

the second layer that I take with me

24:07

are shells and there are two different

24:09

types of shells. There's what

24:11

the industry calls a water resistant shell like

24:14

this one here and then there's what the industry

24:16

calls a waterproof, freeable shell like this one here.

24:19

Let me give you a different interpretation for

24:21

these types of shells. Water resistant to me

24:23

means that it's fairly breathable which

24:26

means that moisture can move through the

24:28

fabric but it's not water resistant just

24:30

get over it. If you

24:32

get stuck in a rainstorm wearing just a wind

24:34

shirt you're going to get wet and

24:37

the reason that they say that it's water resistant is

24:39

because when they make it in

24:41

the factory there's a coating on

24:43

here called a durable water pellet finish but

24:45

it gets degraded very quickly due

24:48

to abrasion, body oils, sweat, dirt

24:51

so it quickly loses its effectiveness.

24:53

So this is nice for like

24:55

windy summits for very,

24:59

very light rain for dry snow. The

25:01

wind shell works pretty well and

25:04

then the waterproof, breathable shell, everyone

25:07

knows these by a brand named Gore-Tex.

25:10

This I would describe as barely breathable so it's

25:12

kind of like wearing a plastic bag and

25:15

it's water resistant for a while. It basically

25:17

will delay you getting wet but this is

25:19

a good time to point out that you're

25:22

outdoors, there's no

25:24

way to control the climate. You have

25:26

to have some realistic expectations about what

25:28

your gear can and cannot do and

25:30

my experience is that when it's wet

25:32

outside I'm going to get wet. There

25:34

are some things that I can do to minimize or prolong

25:38

getting wet and also try to be comfortable

25:40

when wet but I'm gonna get wet so

25:43

just kind of get over that. And

25:46

for this trip here I would probably, I

25:49

would take in

25:51

August I would probably just take the wind

25:53

shell or the the waterproof, breathable shell. If

25:56

I get caught in a storm that's going to be pretty

25:58

short-lived, I can put this on. And it'll keep me comfortable

26:00

for an hour. After an

26:02

hour, the storm is going to leave and I can take this off.

26:05

And I probably won't – I might be a little bit wet inside,

26:07

but no big deal. And that night I can start a fire and

26:10

dry out. Any

26:12

questions about waterproof, breathable shells or

26:15

shells in general? Yes? So,

26:23

you might have heard water-resistant shells described

26:25

as a soft shell and waterproof, breathable

26:27

shells described as hard shells. So

26:30

it's just a – yeah. It's synonymous.

26:34

Yes? I know they just said some

26:36

water-free umbrellas. I heard some people using

26:38

umbrellas in training, you know, that way.

26:40

Right. So umbrellas are definitely

26:42

another way to go. Umbrellas

26:45

work really well because – excellent ventilation,

26:47

right? I mean,

26:50

but imagine being caught on, say, at 13,000 feet

26:53

in a thunderstorm and you only have

26:56

an umbrella. I mean, remember Mary Poppins? Like,

26:59

you know. And then I also don't

27:01

like umbrellas because I like trekking poles. So

27:03

trekking poles aren't compatible with an umbrella. But umbrellas

27:06

are also great out in the desert just to

27:08

keep the sun off of you. Like,

27:11

you can find umbrellas with a – it's

27:14

a radiant heat reflector. It's that

27:16

silvery, like, space blanket material. What's

27:18

it called? Mylar. Mylar,

27:21

yeah. And so I know a lot of people

27:23

who are big fans from there, but I –

27:25

again, I don't like it because as I'm carrying

27:27

it, I can feel it holding me back kind

27:29

of like a race car at the end of

27:31

a drag strip where, like, the parachute goes out.

27:34

And so I don't want to lose – I don't want to have my

27:36

pace drop down from like 3.3 miles an hour

27:38

to 3.2. That'd be a tragedy. And

27:43

that makes a big difference when you're hiking 6,800 miles. So

27:46

– okay. And then the

27:48

last layer that I would take with me

27:50

is insulation. There

27:52

are a couple of different types of insulated layers. You

27:54

could take fleece like this here, or

27:56

you could take a category I call

27:58

– I refer to as puffy. which

28:01

are really thin or really lightweight

28:03

shell fabric, really lightweight interior

28:07

fabric, and then sandwich between is either a

28:09

synthetic insulation like prima loft or

28:11

climate shield or a goose down, which is

28:14

just a little filament of goose down. For

28:17

the west, because it's so dry I

28:19

highly recommend down as opposed to synthetic.

28:22

It's a lot lighter, it's much warmer

28:24

for its weight, it's longer lasting, it's

28:28

more compressible, it's also not

28:30

made of plastic. And then the

28:33

fleece layers don't really make that much sense here

28:35

in the American West either because they're pretty heavy

28:37

for the amount of weight that they, the amount

28:40

of warmth that they give you. The

28:42

one time I recommend fleece is in the shoulder seasons

28:44

around here where you could be up in the Sierra,

28:46

say in October, and you could get cold and wet,

28:49

in which case fleece will do a much better job

28:51

at retaining its warmth when it's wet than a puffy

28:53

jacket like this one here. Now

28:55

oftentimes you hear people talk about synthetic

28:57

insulations and they say, well, synthetic insulations

28:59

stay warm when they're wet. Nothing

29:03

stays warm when it's wet. And

29:05

my experience is that synthetic insulations don't, I'm

29:08

sorry, down doesn't get wet from me like dropping it

29:10

in a river or like, I don't

29:12

know, like you're not protecting my

29:15

items in my pack from rainstorms. Down

29:17

gets wet because it absorbs ambient humidity.

29:20

So in humid environments like the East Coast,

29:22

they don't work that well because they're always

29:25

absorbing that humidity. Whereas here in the West,

29:27

it's usually really low humidity, so down stays

29:29

pretty dry and it's really effective insulator. Any

29:34

questions on insulation? No? Alright,

29:39

let's jump to footwear. So the footwear I would use

29:42

on a trip like this, does anyone have a pair

29:44

of hiking shoes? Like

29:46

a pair of like merrells or... Probably

29:49

not. I see. Yeah, I'll take these. Okay. Alright,

29:58

so the pair of shoes... that I would

30:00

normally recommend is a pair of lightweight trail running shoes.

30:02

These are a little bit skimpy for a

30:05

backpacking trip, but the reason I

30:07

like trail running shoes is because they're

30:09

comfortable to put on, is right out of the

30:11

box, they breathe really well so they're not hot,

30:13

they don't trap all that all my foot perspiration,

30:16

they dry out really fast once they get wet,

30:19

and they're also much lighter weight. And the military has

30:22

done, I've seen the studies on this, military studies

30:24

where they figured out that one

30:27

extra pound on your foot is equivalent to carrying

30:29

an extra six pounds on your back in terms

30:31

of effort because you're always swinging your feet, so

30:34

your feet move a lot more, so there's

30:36

a lot more effort involved in moving them.

30:38

If you're not willing to go to a trail running

30:41

shoe, and again I wouldn't recommend something this skimpy, but

30:43

something just a little bit burlier, then you can go

30:45

with a, this is more of a hiking

30:48

boot, but something like a low

30:50

cut version of this works pretty well too. It's

30:53

fairly supportive, good protection, it's pretty

30:56

durable, but I still

30:58

much lighter weight than your

31:00

conventional backpacking boots, Italian made

31:02

leather waffle stoppers.

31:06

And I recommend going with a

31:08

non-waterproof shoe. My experience

31:10

is that when, again, when it's wet outside,

31:12

there's nothing I can do about keeping my,

31:15

keeping anything about me dry. So

31:18

for example, if I were to wear a waterproof shoe,

31:20

when it's not wet, my shoes, my foot is going

31:22

to be, a lot of the perspiration for my foot

31:24

is going to be trapped in that shoe, and then

31:26

when it does get wet, like if I have to pour to Creek, or

31:29

I'm in a rainstorm and water drips down my

31:31

legs, then it takes a long time for that

31:33

waterproof shoe or boot to get dry. So it's

31:35

much better just to go with a non-waterproof shoe

31:37

that dries fast and that squeegees the water out,

31:40

and then you have to deal with

31:42

the issue of just having wet feet. So

31:45

let me, let me skip a few

31:47

slides. So there are a few things

31:49

that I, I wasn't dealing

31:51

very well with wet feet that

31:53

day. There are a few things that I do as

31:56

far as foot care goes. First thing, I always

31:58

try to preemptively treat my feet. So

32:02

if I notice a hot spot coming

32:04

on, immediately I stop and I

32:06

take care of it before it goes

32:08

into a full-fledged blister. If you start

32:10

getting blistered, your trip is greatly

32:13

curtailed. It's just too painful to be walking

32:15

on blisters. So really be proactive about

32:18

your foot care. I also try to

32:20

keep my feet, the best of my

32:22

ability, clean, warm, and dry. So I wash my

32:24

socks. Usually in

32:27

the West here I carry two pairs of socks. I

32:31

won't show you these, I won't pass these around,

32:33

but it's just a pair of thin cycling socks.

32:37

I carry two pairs and I'll wear the

32:39

first pair through midday

32:41

and then I'll stop and I'll put on my other

32:43

pair and I'll take that pair that I was wearing the first

32:46

half of the day and I'll wash it and I'll put it

32:48

on the outside of my pack to dry. And by the time

32:50

I arrive in camp, it's dry, it's clean, and

32:52

I can wear it to bed. I also

32:55

try to make sure that my feet are warm at

32:57

night. So in this photo here, my feet, this was

32:59

in the Alaska range, my feet have been

33:01

wet for about 12-13 hours. I was wearing

33:03

a pair of leather ski boots and

33:06

my feet when I got up the next morning were

33:08

totally fine because I gave them nine hours where they

33:10

were dry, they were warm, and

33:12

I was able to pound on them all day long the

33:15

next day despite them looking like this when I pulled into

33:17

camp. And then because

33:19

my feet are oftentimes wet, I

33:22

have to figure out how to deal with moisture. And

33:24

the thing

33:26

that I recommend is there

33:28

are a couple of different things you can use.

33:30

What I've been using recently is it's a wax-based

33:32

balm. This is a company called

33:35

Bonnie's Balm and I put

33:37

this on my feet at night after they've

33:39

dried out and let

33:41

the wax or the oils absorb into my

33:44

skin. And the next day

33:46

what that does is it basically kind of keeps some

33:48

of the water out and it also keeps my foot

33:50

moisturized. And the problem with wet feet is that your

33:52

feet get macerated so they get pruny, they

33:54

get soft, they're prone to blistering, and a

33:57

wax like this will really help to

33:59

mince. minimize that. It won't eliminate

34:01

it, but it will allow you to deal

34:03

with wet feet like this. And

34:07

then the final thing about footwear, I always

34:09

try, I never try new footwear in a

34:12

high risk environment. So if I'm going to go on a

34:14

long trip, I'm going to have gone on a shorter trip

34:16

before then just to make sure that my footwear system, my

34:19

socks and my shoes are good. Yes?

34:24

When you're going on like a 5,000 mile hike, I'm

34:26

assuming that one pair of shoes doesn't hold up. Do

34:29

you have like one pair of

34:31

shoes? Yeah, one pair of shoes is not

34:33

enough for a 5,000 mile trip, correct.

34:35

So what I rely

34:37

on the US postal system to basically

34:40

before my trip, I figure out all

34:42

these resupply points and then before

34:45

I leave, I box up a bunch of

34:47

food and new supplies and shoes

34:51

and I mail it out to myself. So the pair of

34:53

shoes that I was using on my Alaska trip would last

34:56

me for about 450 miles, give

34:59

or take depending on the conditions. So I

35:01

would just approximately every 450 miles find a

35:03

place to ship myself a new pair of

35:05

shoes. And

35:08

right, so if you're going to do one of

35:10

these long distance trips, definitely find yourself a sympathetic

35:12

spouse or mother who

35:15

is willing to send you all of this stuff

35:17

and make sure that she's a good baker too

35:19

because receiving chocolate chip cookies in the

35:21

mail after

35:23

a long hard trip is

35:25

really wonderful. All

35:29

right, so I told

35:31

you a little bit about the socks, but

35:33

I generally prefer Merino wool socks as opposed

35:35

to polyester. They deal with the funk a

35:37

lot better than polyester does. Just

35:39

a lightweight pair of socks. That's

35:41

enough for me, but some people might need a little bit more, something

35:44

a little bit thicker to give themselves a little bit more cushioning.

35:46

And then I recommend using

35:49

a really small gator like this one

35:51

here. And some people

35:54

look at gators and they say, well, you're adding weight

35:56

to your footwear system. And this is a good example

35:58

of where I'm being more efficient by... using

36:00

a pair of gators because I'm having to stop far less

36:02

often to get stuff out of my shoes and Also,

36:05

case my feet cleaner. So that's better

36:07

for the long long-term health and long-term

36:09

success We're

36:13

gonna skip here any other

36:15

questions about footwear Right,

36:22

so if you're walking in snow It depends on

36:24

the consistency of the snow if it's really wet

36:27

snow like in the springtime If

36:29

you're wearing a pair of waterproof shoes, your shoes are still

36:31

gonna get wet So I would

36:33

just go with go with non waterproof

36:35

shoes your feet get wet. They get cold

36:37

for a while It's

36:40

tough, but you know, you

36:42

got to kind of deal with it I Guess

36:56

I'm so let me explain it this way So if

36:58

you have a pair of waterproof shoes, I

37:01

would argue that in prolonged wet conditions your

37:03

feet are going to get wet It's just

37:05

it's inevitable. So you will have to for

37:07

a creek You will be walking

37:09

on snow all day long or frequently

37:11

enough and that water those that waterproof

37:13

breathing material is not It's

37:16

not in definitely waterproof it

37:19

Water can water can and does move into the

37:21

fabric and you also have this big hole for

37:23

where your ankle is So your feet

37:25

are still gonna get wet and then at that point I

37:27

just assume have the waterproof shoes which

37:29

are the non waterproof shoes, which will dry

37:31

a lot faster. They're more They're

37:34

lighter weight. They're not as hot when Because

37:37

they don't trap all that all that heat moisture

37:39

inside my shoe So yeah,

37:41

I think the bottom line is it's bet you're

37:43

instead of trying to keep your feet dry It's

37:45

better off trying to figure out how to minimize

37:47

the effects of wet So

37:55

regarding the ankle support that's always the thing

37:57

with boots and the

37:59

way I look at boots, if you have a really stiff boot,

38:01

let's say you have like a if you're wearing a

38:03

ski boot, your body still

38:05

has to react to any abnormality on the

38:08

surface. So if you step on a rock and you're in

38:10

a ski boot, your whole knee is gonna go like this

38:13

because some part of your body has to absorb it. So

38:15

naturally or like biomechanically, our ankles are

38:17

designed to absorb that stuff and to

38:20

keep us balanced. If your ankles aren't

38:22

strong enough yet to support you and

38:24

walking on that trail with your backpack,

38:26

then you might want to go for

38:28

something that does have some ankle protection

38:30

but the ideal thing is definitely to let

38:32

your ankles do that work. How

38:34

do you know when your ankles are strong enough? How

38:37

do you know when your ankles are strong enough? That's

38:39

a personal decision. If you

38:41

go up there,

38:43

I don't know, give it a shot. Bring a pair

38:45

of trail running shoes and if you're carrying a lightweight

38:47

pack and you feel totally comfortable, then

38:49

you're apparently strong enough. Maybe go on a

38:51

day hike with just a pair of trail

38:53

running shoes and see what it's like and then

38:56

maybe go on a one-week trip or two-week trip

38:58

with a pair of trail running shoes after you've

39:00

proven them. Are

39:03

there any suggestions for sole material? So

39:08

recommendations for sole material. You

39:11

can't really choose your, it's not like tires where it's

39:13

like okay well I'd like a Toyota but I want

39:15

good year tires so you kind of take what you

39:17

get. I think there's

39:20

a lot of there are a lot of good rubbers

39:22

out there nowadays and they've definitely have, there are definitely

39:24

some rubbers that don't have the trade-offs that they used

39:26

to. It used to be that if you wanted a

39:28

sticky rubber, it wasn't durable

39:30

but if you wanted a hard rubber then it

39:32

wasn't sticky. So there's some

39:34

rubbers that do a better job. I tend to

39:36

wear, I have been wearing Las Fortiva shoes for

39:38

a while now and they do a pretty good

39:40

job in that combination but that's something you

39:43

kind of have to just find out the hard way. And

39:45

then once you do find a pair of shoes

39:47

that you really like, buy like 10 pairs of

39:49

them because you know that they're gonna change the

39:51

model like next year so and you'll be on

39:54

the search again. Yeah. How

40:00

heavy of a pack? Sure.

40:07

So, yes, I would still wear trail running shoes with

40:09

a 30-pound pack on an extended trip. I'm

40:12

not sure if you were around for that. That first slide was

40:14

a photo from my Alaska trip. So I was

40:16

a 24-day stretch, 657 miles without seeing any other human being without

40:18

crossing road

40:23

and I had it on a pair of trail running shoes that

40:25

weren't much more robust than this.

40:29

When I left, when I started that section, I

40:31

was carrying two weeks of food. My whole pack weighed about 45

40:33

pounds. So it's doable, but

40:36

hopefully one of the things I come across in

40:38

this presentation that this isn't my way or the

40:40

highway. You need to make your own decisions and

40:42

based on your own experience and your own strengths,

40:44

weaknesses, comforts. So if

40:47

you want to go or try a pair of trail runners for a

40:49

month on that sort of trip, go for it. But

40:51

if you're like really stuck on boots because you know they

40:53

work for you, I'd say just go with it. So

40:58

how do you default relation to the

41:00

shoes? We'll get there. Yeah,

41:02

let me, I'll keep, let

41:04

me, a few more slides. I'm going to keep on moving

41:06

on some of this stuff. So

41:09

after my, we've

41:11

done clothing, we've done footwear.

41:14

So we'll go to sleep systems. Unfortunately,

41:17

I, so the sleeping

41:19

bags that I would take with me on this

41:21

trip, we're here in August. It's

41:24

in the High Sierra. I would take with me

41:26

a down insulated sleeping quilt, which is a lot,

41:28

it's a lot different than your traditional mummy bag.

41:31

So it's got this open back. And the reason I like

41:34

these sleeping quilts as opposed to a mummy is because it's

41:36

a lot more versatile. It's also a little bit lighter because

41:38

you don't have any of this material in the back here.

41:41

But the nice thing about a mummy is that if it's, say if

41:43

it's a really warm night, I can just sort of loosely drape the

41:46

quilt on top of me. But if it's a really cold night,

41:51

then I can button this up and there's a

41:53

draw, then there's a draw cord I could, I

41:55

could cinch tight. And

41:58

that would also keep me comfortable. As far

42:00

as the temperature selection of this quilt, this

42:02

quilt, they say it's technically rated

42:04

as 20 degrees, but that's not quite true.

42:06

I would say if I were

42:08

to sleep, let's go back to my clothing system here.

42:14

So if I were to sleep, say,

42:16

in my underwear and my shirt, I'm

42:20

comfortable in this sleeping bag down to about,

42:22

say, 35 degrees. But

42:25

then if I also wear my pants and

42:28

I wear my insulated parka,

42:31

now I'm good down to about

42:33

20, 25 degrees. So

42:36

I look at my sleep system as part of the

42:39

system that keeps me warm at night,

42:41

but it's not the only thing I rely on. So I'm

42:43

trying to eliminate some redundancies between these

42:45

different gear systems. And

42:51

then for a sleeping pad, I'm

42:53

not sure where it went. Usually

42:56

I recommend a closed cell phone pad. The

42:58

limitation of a closed cell phone pad is that they're not

43:00

that comfortable if you sleep on a really hard surface, because

43:02

they're only, say, 5 eighths of an inch thick. So you

43:04

need to find a good soft campsite. And

43:07

if you don't want to do that, or if you

43:09

just insist on carrying a little bit of luxury, then

43:11

you can take an air pad like this one. This

43:14

weighs 9 ounces, about an inch

43:16

thick, and you probably would still want to

43:18

sleep on something soft, even

43:20

with this pad. And then

43:23

you'll notice it's only

43:25

torso length. So

43:29

at night what I do is I take my backpack and

43:31

I put that down at my feet. And

43:35

the padding of the backpack will keep my

43:37

lower half warm. And also, because I'm sleeping

43:39

on a soft surface, say,

43:42

pine needles, leaves, moss,

43:46

that's not a surface that's really thermally conductive.

43:48

So it's not like hard packed

43:50

wet ground that seems to really just suck the

43:52

warmth out of you. Any

43:55

questions on sleep systems? All

43:57

right, let's jump to shelters. I'm going to need a bathroom. We

44:00

need a few volunteers

44:04

here. Can I have one,

44:06

two, three, four, five, six? Or

44:09

maybe if you have any computer, can I get you

44:11

here? So there are a couple of different shelters I might use

44:13

for this sort of trip. Actually,

44:17

I'm going to bring you over here. Hold

44:22

this. This one

44:26

here. We can all raise it up. Okay,

44:31

so this was an A-frame tarp. It

44:34

only weighs about nine ounces. The

44:38

great thing about this shelter in addition to it being really

44:40

light, you have a tremendous amount of coverage area for one

44:43

person. And you also have great

44:45

ventilation, so you won't have many condensation problems with

44:47

this shelter. Unfortunately, there's no protection

44:49

against the ground. There's no protection against

44:51

bugs. And it has two open ends,

44:54

even if you pitch it down to the ground. So this

44:56

is a camp. If you do want to

44:58

use a shelter like this, you need to know where to camp. So

45:01

I usually try to pitch it right up against a big bush. I

45:03

try to camp away from the bugs, away from, you know,

45:08

and kind of in a more protected area where there's not going to be a whole

45:10

lot of wind. And then, well,

45:14

okay, that's probably fine. I think that'll

45:16

be good. But hang up here one more. I

45:19

have one more shelter to show, so you can let go of this one. So

45:25

normally what I'll do when I use an A-frame TARP

45:27

is I'll take a water-resistant bivy sack like this one

45:29

here. So this bivy sack has a waterproof floor and

45:32

then a very breathable nylon top. And this

45:34

gives me protection against the ground. It

45:37

provides bug protection and also provides a little bit

45:39

of extra warmth, like five degrees. But a bivy

45:41

sack like this is really helpful with that quilt,

45:43

because the quilt can be a little bit drafty.

45:48

And the combination of these two systems

45:51

is how I use it, or

45:53

why I describe it as a modular TARP system,

45:55

because it's designed to work together. All right, one

45:57

more shelter to show. another

46:00

shelter that I

46:02

might use. It's

46:04

definitely a more robust shelter. I need a

46:06

center fold. Can someone jump underneath? All

46:12

right, fold this one here. Okay, so this

46:14

is a 13-ounce shelter.

46:18

This is actually the shelter that I used with

46:20

me up in Alaska. So I started, when

46:23

I started the strip in March, okay, thanks

46:25

guys, I was 30 miles

46:28

north of the Arctic Circle and I had a 13-ounce

46:30

tarp with me. And then I

46:33

used the shelter for the remainder of the trip and

46:35

the only time I needed to change it up a

46:37

little bit was when the bugs came out.

46:40

And then at that time I added a bug

46:42

nest like this one here that fits right underneath

46:44

the shelter. So

46:46

that shelter has provided

46:49

a complete protection, really

46:51

robust 360 degrees, and

46:54

the whole system only weighed about 22 ounces.

47:00

I think I'm gonna skip it, yeah. Any

47:03

questions about shelters? Yes. More

47:06

insulation at

47:09

night would definitely

47:11

help if you're exhausted and can't produce your own

47:13

body heat. I'd say that the best way to

47:15

keep yourself insulated though is a heavier weight sleeping

47:17

bag as opposed to a shelter. So a lot

47:19

of people look at that, look at a tarp

47:22

and they're like, wow, well it looks so chilly,

47:24

which true it

47:26

is, but in order

47:28

to, so

47:31

the better way to look at it is, okay, like let's say I

47:33

need an extra 10 degrees of warmth. You

47:35

can get an extra 10 degrees of warmth

47:37

in a sleeping bag by adding,

47:40

say, three or four ounces of insulation. Whereas

47:42

to get 10 degrees of warmth in a

47:44

shelter, you need to add probably three, four

47:47

pounds of material. So it's much better to

47:49

go with a lighter weight shelter

47:52

that is more functional to protect you against

47:54

the wind and rain and bugs, and then

47:56

use your sleeping bag and your clothing system

47:59

to keep you at night. Why

48:10

would someone want to take a traditional tent

48:12

with them? I think

48:14

that's a wonderful question to ask. Yeah,

48:17

I don't know. I think most people walk in and

48:19

they see it's all set up and it's so easy

48:21

to just slide a pole in that sleeve and slide

48:23

a pole in that sleeve and pop. There

48:26

it goes. So you don't need to

48:28

think about where to set it up or how

48:30

to tie out some of the guidelines. You don't

48:32

need to think about any of that stuff. But

48:34

there's a cost to that. It's a piece of

48:37

foolproof gear, but unfortunately it weighs three, four times

48:39

as much as a system like this does. No,

48:41

not really. It

48:46

just doesn't have two poles. You have to

48:48

use your trekking poles and with the tarp,

48:51

you have to use these guidelines.

48:54

But there's a really simple way

48:56

to do the guidelines system. In

48:58

fact, can I just have an arm? Okay,

49:02

just hold that. So with the guidelines system,

49:04

let it slide a little bit. I

49:07

just have a bowline, a bowline knot here

49:09

and then I kind of use this trucker's hitch system and now I've

49:12

got a two to one pulley. And then to

49:14

tie this thing off, I just use a slippery half hitch

49:17

and that's that system. I did it instantly.

49:19

So it's really fast and easy, but

49:21

it's a little bit of a skill. A

49:24

lot of backpackers, for

49:26

some reason, don't want to learn the skills that allow them to

49:28

take pieces of gear like this. Let's

49:31

keep moving through here. Maps

49:35

to navigation. I highly recommend learning how to use a

49:37

map and a compass. With

49:39

a map and a compass, I can do everything that a GPS can

49:41

do. So I

49:43

can pinpoint my exact location, at least to

49:45

a relevant degree of accuracy, maybe not within

49:48

three meters. But

49:50

in a backpacking application, that sort

49:53

of accuracy doesn't matter. And also by tracking

49:56

my progress, I can figure out how fast I'm going.

50:00

you know, where I'm going. But maybe the more

50:02

important thing with mapping compass is that there's some

50:04

big advantages. So it's more reliable because it doesn't,

50:06

it's not electronic, it doesn't rely on batteries. It's

50:09

also a lighter weight system and then

50:12

with a map like, you

50:14

know, the maps that I print out are on, this is an 8.5 by

50:16

11, but the maps that

50:18

I print out normally 11 by 14 inches

50:20

and that amount of map provides me

50:23

way more information than a GPS with a high

50:25

resolution screen that's this big. I mean, what do

50:27

you want to be looking at if you're traveling

50:29

across a landscape? You want to be looking at

50:31

a hard piece of paper. And then

50:34

finally, with the big thing with the mapping

50:36

compass is that a GPS can only tell you, if

50:38

you're at point A and you want to get to point B,

50:40

it'll tell you the distance and then tell you the direction, but

50:43

it won't tell you how to get there. So it might take,

50:45

you might have you swim across the deepest part of the river

50:47

and it might, you know, you might have to go in and out

50:49

of a canyon and it might take you through the thickest brush. Whereas

50:52

if you understand when you look at a map what

50:54

all of that means and then you can pick a

50:56

path of least resistance, so

51:00

we asked a question earlier about trekking poles.

51:03

I always take trekking poles with me, especially

51:05

on backpacking trips. They help propel

51:07

me forward, they help propel me upward and

51:10

then on the descents they help to sort

51:13

of just take it easy on my

51:15

knees a little bit because you're always doing like

51:17

those one-legged squats down, especially on steeper terrain. So

51:20

the trekking poles are really helpful. I also use them

51:22

to set up my shelter at night. I've

51:24

used them to even to

51:26

fend off grizzly bears. No

51:29

joke. So I don't have, I

51:32

should get the video. You guys can

51:35

go to another slideshow sometime about my, on

51:37

my Alaska trip. I was up

51:39

in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and I'm hiking along,

51:41

it's like, you know, like midnight, but there's still plenty

51:43

of daylight. So I'm hiking along up this valley and

51:45

I just have this moment around, like, hi, you should

51:47

really just like turn around and see if you can

51:49

see a bear grazing in the hillside. So I

51:52

look up and I look this way and I see

51:54

a grizzly bear charging at me out of the brush.

51:56

So I squared up to it, yelled at

51:58

it and it, you know, it paused. and then realized

52:00

that I probably shouldn't be messed with and then

52:02

I ran away. Half

52:05

an hour later I have that same sense.

52:07

I turn this way and

52:09

there's a grizzly bear charging

52:12

at me across these

52:14

gravel graves where there's a creek and

52:16

I was a little bit above it. I was probably like

52:18

10 feet above it on the bank and

52:20

the grizzly bear was so close by the time I saw

52:23

it was at that pole. So I took my trekking pole

52:25

and I threw, I was walking like this and I threw

52:27

my trekking pole across my body because I

52:29

didn't have time to square up and throw it and

52:31

it landed right in front of

52:33

the bear and I was also yelling at the bear.

52:35

Between these throwing projectiles at it and yelling at it,

52:38

it made a 90 degree turn

52:40

and as I was running away

52:42

it crapped itself and there

52:46

was this 30 foot

52:48

long stream, streak of

52:50

red berry crap along

52:53

the gravel braid. So there's

52:55

a great video which I like, I'm like retelling the

52:57

story and like halfway through the video it just dawns

52:59

me that I scared the crap out of a grizzly

53:01

bear and I just, it's like, you know, you look

53:04

at it and you're like, wow that guy has been

53:06

out there for a while. All

53:10

right, food and nutrition.

53:13

So first food, one ounce

53:15

of carbohydrates or protein has a hundred calories, one

53:17

ounce of fat has 240 calories. So

53:20

if you wanted to go with two extreme types of

53:23

diets, every

53:25

day you need about 3,000 calories if you're gonna

53:27

be backpacking. So if you only want to

53:29

take protein or carbohydrates you could carry like

53:31

30 ounces of gummy bears. Alternatively

53:35

you could carry 12 and

53:37

a half ounces of butter. So

53:40

the better thing to do is find some balance

53:42

of fat versus protein and carbohydrate. Usually for most

53:44

people it's in the range of 125 to 150

53:46

calories an ounce. If you're going to be on

53:48

a really long distance

53:53

trip you probably will need a little

53:55

bit more if you are just out there for the

53:57

weekend and you're like a petite male or female or

53:59

a say a teenager, you probably will

54:01

need a little bit less. But that 3,000 calorie

54:04

per day is pretty

54:06

good starting point for most people. All

54:10

right, so as far as food types, I've

54:13

never ever ever taken enough chocolate

54:15

on a backpacking trip. During

54:19

the day, I probably, I'd say two-thirds of the

54:21

things that I eat have some sort of chocolate

54:23

in them. So it's chocolate-covered raisins,

54:25

it's chocolate bars, it's an

54:29

energy bar with chocolate in it, and

54:31

not like the fake soy chocolate, but

54:33

like chocolate chocolate. And

54:36

I've just found, I kind of have the incinerator theory

54:38

where basically if I put nutrients

54:40

into my body, my body will burn them. So

54:42

I just feed my body what it wants. And

54:44

typically it always wants chocolate. And

54:47

then for dinners, I make a hot meal

54:49

at night and I just, the

54:52

typical routine is that I boil water,

54:54

throw in something that cooks

54:56

really fast like potatoes, beans, rice, couscous,

55:01

ramen, and then I add

55:03

butter, oils, cheese, and spices.

55:06

And it basically every night looks like

55:09

glop in a bowl. But at

55:11

the end of a really long day, it still tastes really

55:13

good. And

55:16

I would also point out it's probably possible if you're

55:18

going up to the Sierra just for a short trip,

55:20

you might want to just run over to the cafeteria

55:23

and pick up yourself some, a couple of

55:25

dinners, and you can just pack them because it won't be that much

55:27

weight and it

55:29

probably would look a lot better than glop in a bowl. I

55:34

do bring meat with me, but it's always

55:36

not like uncooked meat. So it's jerky,

55:39

salami, that

55:41

sort of thing. And I usually eat it during

55:43

the day. Sometimes

55:46

I'll add, actually this meal, this is one of the

55:48

best meals I ever made, this one here. It

55:51

was a cheese filled linguine

55:53

with some sort of fancy

55:55

sausage and then like some like pesto sauce

55:57

and olive oil and Wait,

56:02

that doesn't sound awesome? Come on. Trust

56:05

me, it was. You

56:08

guys kind of are spoiling my Google. All right. It's

56:13

okay if I start a fire in here, right? All

56:18

right. So the first time, the stove that

56:20

I recommend I actually made out

56:22

of a fancy feast cat food can. This

56:26

is it. This was the stove I used

56:28

on my Alaska trip. It

56:30

weighs three cents of an ounce. It will never break. It

56:32

will never clog up. It only cost me $1.50, including the

56:34

hole punch that I had to buy in order to make

56:36

it. It burns denatured

56:38

alcohol, which you can get in the paint

56:40

department at the hardware store. And then I

56:42

made a windscreen from Reynolds Wrap.

56:46

And it just folds up nicely in the bottom of my

56:49

pot. And the

56:51

alcohol you can just keep in a water

56:54

bottle like this one here. And I generally

56:56

need about three-fourths of an ounce of

57:00

alcohol per meal for about a cup

57:02

and a half, two cups of

57:05

water. I like to start the stove

57:07

with matches because

57:10

a lighter, you kind of have to get your finger down

57:13

in there and it's a good way to burn your hand night

57:15

after night. So it takes

57:17

about seven to eight minutes

57:19

for the stove to boil

57:21

water. But basically, if I

57:24

don't have any water in here, but if I

57:26

had water, I would just put the pot

57:28

right on top and then I would cover

57:30

the whole thing with

57:33

the windscreen, let it sit there for eight

57:35

minutes or so, come to a boil, then

57:37

I'd add my meal. Now

57:40

the only problem with the stove is you can't put it

57:42

out. So that's why I didn't put very much alcohol in

57:45

it. And you can also see that the flame is not

57:47

very bright. So if you're going to use this in the

57:49

daytime, just be careful. When

57:51

you start it, you'll hear it pop when it lights

57:53

up. And then if you just kind of put your

57:55

hand over it, you'll feel the heat. But just make

57:57

sure that you don't... I

57:59

have had a friend... who started her stove, lit it

58:01

up, and then was like, oh, it hasn't started yet,

58:03

and then sort of her fuel bottle and went like

58:06

this. So it's

58:08

not a very explosive fuel, but it's easy enough

58:10

to start a fire with it. So

58:16

the first time I ever gave one of these lightweight

58:18

clinics, I was in Boulder at the Eastern Mountain Sports

58:20

Store. And I started this stove.

58:22

And it's kind of a neat thing. It's like

58:24

homemade. It costs you $1.50. So I put the

58:26

pot on top, and I didn't have any water in it. And

58:29

the pot got pretty hot just sitting there. And

58:31

after like 30 seconds, they're just saying how cool the stove

58:33

was. I took the pot and I put it down on

58:35

the carpet. And

58:37

I hear, pfft. And

58:40

it was like this black

58:42

smoke coming from the edges of the

58:44

pot. So I did the pot a

58:46

tug, and it won't move. So I

58:49

really tug it hard, and I pull it

58:51

up. And there's a bunch of carpet on

58:53

the bottom of the pot and this black

58:55

burn mark on the carpet. And I look up

58:57

the store manager, I'm like, ew, sorry. And

59:00

he's like, oh, no big deal, no big deal. So

59:02

after the presentation, I'm like, well, I'm really sorry about

59:04

your carpet. I'd be happy to replace it for you,

59:06

whatever you need. And he's like, dude, it's really no

59:08

big deal. And he just grabs a rolling rack and

59:10

puts it right over the burn mark. All

59:17

right, water purification. I have

59:20

one recommendation about the heat. Yeah?

59:22

You know, I was a long ago. It was like that

59:25

red adhesive tape around it, so

59:27

you know it's not water. Oh, right. So the

59:29

gentleman suggested if you're going to use a water,

59:31

if you're going to bring alcohol out with you,

59:33

somehow mark the water bottle. And that way, you

59:36

don't try to drink it. I

59:38

generally don't have that problem, because I use

59:40

these soft sided platypus bottles like this one.

59:43

So these platypus bottles are great. They weigh

59:45

1.6, the weight of an

59:47

algin bottle for the same amount of volume. They're collapsible, so

59:49

they don't take up any room in my pack if I'm

59:51

not using them. And then at night, they're soft, so I

59:53

blow them up with air or with water. I throw them

59:55

in a stuff sack, and I can use them as a

59:57

pillow. Pretty

59:59

slick. And for water treatment, I

1:00:01

use these aquamura drops. And

1:00:04

usually this would be, this is enough for like

1:00:07

30 gallons of water, so I usually put these

1:00:09

in separate smaller dropper bottles, so I don't have

1:00:11

to carry the whole thing out with me. But

1:00:16

you take the mixing cap right here, five

1:00:19

drops of A, seven drops of B, let it react for

1:00:23

five minutes, put it in one liter of water, and

1:00:25

within 15 minutes you have purified

1:00:27

water. And I was

1:00:29

just told this week that aquamura is now approved as

1:00:32

a water purifier here in the state of California, so

1:00:34

you'll be able to find it at

1:00:36

REI among other retail stores as in

1:00:38

the water purification section. Yes?

1:00:40

How do I do that? Right,

1:00:43

so another good option, especially if you're with a

1:00:45

group, is to use these UV lights. And

1:00:48

it doesn't rely on chemicals, and

1:00:51

it's also really fast. It's like 45 seconds.

1:00:54

So that's a great option if you're with

1:00:56

a group where you're doing a lot of purifying and you

1:00:59

just want to do it fast. The

1:01:01

problem with the lights is that you can't get them into

1:01:03

these platypus bottles, you need a wider mouth. And

1:01:06

it's also subject to failure, so you don't,

1:01:10

you still have to carry something as a

1:01:12

backup because you might, if the

1:01:15

batteries run out or if it malfunctions

1:01:17

for some reason, you'll move a little bit. Does

1:01:19

everybody have you on the A-series? Yeah,

1:01:22

like I said, there's some, you definitely need

1:01:25

a backup because they are prone to failure.

1:01:29

Okay, small essentials, I'm not

1:01:31

going to go through all this, but I kind

1:01:33

of have my foot care kit and my first

1:01:35

aid items up here if you want to take

1:01:37

a look. Inevitably you need a bunch of these

1:01:40

kind of tiny items, try to keep them to

1:01:42

a minimum. And

1:01:44

then as far as first aid, there are

1:01:48

four principles that I use. The first is that every

1:01:52

first aid item I take with me can't

1:01:54

be improvised in the field. So I

1:01:56

take with me, especially on group trips, I

1:01:58

take with me some medical... some latex gloves because

1:02:00

I can't improvise these in the field. I

1:02:03

also take things that are multifunctional. So

1:02:06

instead of taking like

1:02:10

those square pieces of gauze, I

1:02:13

take roll gauze because I can make square

1:02:15

pieces of gauze out of roll gauze but

1:02:17

I can't do the opposite. So square

1:02:19

gauze is a little bit more versatile. Also,

1:02:22

every first aid item is relevant

1:02:24

to the trip and to the environment so I'm not

1:02:27

going to carry altitude drugs for a hike in the

1:02:29

Appalachian Mountains, I'm not going to carry

1:02:31

a snake bite kit for the Arctic. It's just not

1:02:34

going to happen. And then finally, I have

1:02:36

to know how to use it. So you'll

1:02:38

see a lot of the campers by

1:02:40

default, you'll look at their first aid kit and they

1:02:42

will have things in there that they have no idea

1:02:45

how to use. Like they'll have like

1:02:47

a CPR

1:02:50

mask and you'll say, well, do you know how to

1:02:53

give CPR? And they're like, no, but maybe

1:02:56

someone else around will know how to

1:02:58

give CPR. So just don't, if you

1:03:00

don't know how to use it, just don't take it. It's the same reason I

1:03:02

don't take a suture kit. I don't know

1:03:05

how to give sutures so I'm not going to take

1:03:07

needle and thread for that. Now

1:03:10

generally there are two types of first aid

1:03:12

scenarios. One scenario is that

1:03:14

I can treat it in the field

1:03:16

so that's like small cuts, burns, scrapes,

1:03:19

maybe some minor infections. I can do all that in the

1:03:21

field and I have the equipment to take care of that.

1:03:24

But for those bigger medical emergencies,

1:03:26

like say someone, and this is kind

1:03:29

of, this is always far fetched. I even hate using

1:03:31

the scenario of like, someone breaks their femur while backpacking.

1:03:33

Like it'd be really hard to

1:03:35

do. You have to do something really dumb, but let's suppose

1:03:37

that someone does. There's nothing that I

1:03:39

can carry with me out there that

1:03:41

is going to help someone with a broken femur. So

1:03:45

my job at that point is to stabilize them,

1:03:47

to get them as comfortable as possible and then

1:03:49

to get help. I need to get them out.

1:03:51

So in that case, I usually

1:03:54

take with me some sort

1:03:56

of satellite communications device. What I've been using

1:03:58

recently is one Spot Communicators,

1:04:02

or Spot Connects, and it hooks

1:04:04

together with my phone

1:04:07

via Bluetooth. And I

1:04:09

can call for help. I can call

1:04:11

for help. I can also call 911, which goes to all

1:04:13

the search and rescue teams. I can

1:04:16

also send OK messages just to let the

1:04:18

folks back home, hey, I'm camped

1:04:20

here tonight. Everything is good. Don't

1:04:24

worry about me. And then with the Spot Connect,

1:04:26

I can actually send out messages. So

1:04:28

this was a four-day trip that I did up

1:04:30

in Alaska last summer. And the

1:04:32

last message that I, or when I arrived at the

1:04:34

trailhead, I said, out, safe and happy, excited

1:04:37

about dinner. And my mom,

1:04:39

she gets the message, and within five minutes, I

1:04:41

have a phone call from her and saying, hey,

1:04:43

really glad that you're out. Have a great dinner.

1:04:45

Talk to you later. So this is a, I

1:04:48

can't remember the Spot slogan, but it's something

1:04:51

about, it's

1:04:54

rescue when you need it, and for all

1:04:56

the other times, basically a peace of mind.

1:04:58

So it's pretty inexpensive investment, pretty lightweight, and

1:05:01

it works pretty well. Yes? Hold

1:05:03

on one second. Two questions. Yes? Do

1:05:06

you have to worry about batteries running at any size

1:05:08

that I'm working on? The

1:05:10

batteries last a really long time. And

1:05:12

with the newer units, there's also an

1:05:15

indicator about battery life. So

1:05:18

the first generation, or this was a second generation

1:05:20

unit, but the first generation unit I had, I

1:05:22

think I used it for two or three years

1:05:24

and never had replaced the battery. So

1:05:27

I wouldn't be too worried. You're using your cell phone on my head. You

1:05:29

just have to put it on briefly. Yeah, it's, yeah. So

1:05:32

I was doing, like last summer, I was guiding

1:05:34

a bunch of one-week trips, and my cell phone

1:05:36

had no problem for a week. And

1:05:39

in that case, just bring an extra battery too. That's

1:05:41

not necessarily a bad idea. It weighs half an ounce,

1:05:43

maybe an ounce. Easy

1:05:45

thing to do. Yes? What is

1:05:48

the money you spend in the industry? The Spot works

1:05:50

worldwide, but it's usually, or it's mostly

1:05:52

only on land masses. So

1:05:54

if you're going to be selling across the Pacific,

1:05:56

this isn't the system for you. But it will

1:05:58

work. pretty much anywhere

1:06:01

on the world's land masses. Okay,

1:06:05

maybe I think, fine,

1:06:07

all right, last subject is backpacks. A

1:06:12

couple of considerations with backpacks. The

1:06:15

first one is that, or, backpacks, let me rephrase that,

1:06:17

backpacks have to serve two functions. They have to carry

1:06:19

all of my stuff, they have to fit it all,

1:06:21

and they also have to support it all. So

1:06:24

I pick a backpack at the very last minute. It's

1:06:27

like, okay, here's all the stuff that I need to

1:06:29

bring with me. Here's how much it weighs. Therefore,

1:06:31

this is the backpack that I need. You don't

1:06:33

wanna work the other direction because you'll end up

1:06:35

getting a backpack that's either too big or that

1:06:38

won't support the load or that's just too excessive

1:06:40

for what you're using it for. So

1:06:46

there are two types of, generally two types of

1:06:48

backpacks that we use nowadays. Ignore

1:06:52

this, this is a little bit of a

1:06:54

funky backpack, but it works. This

1:06:57

backpack here is called a suspension backpack

1:06:59

or a frames backpack, and it's given a rigid

1:07:02

suspension system with these aluminum stays in here, and

1:07:04

there are two of them. But you also might

1:07:06

have a backpack that has a frame sheet, which

1:07:08

would be like a plastic sheet

1:07:10

inside of here, and they're also ones that have

1:07:12

these peripheral rods, so it would

1:07:14

be this metal rod around the perimeter of

1:07:17

the backpack. And the whole

1:07:19

point of that suspension system is

1:07:21

to transfer weight from your shoulders to your hips.

1:07:23

So if I put this backpack on and I

1:07:25

take all the weight off of my shoulders, this

1:07:27

backpack still sits right on my hips. And

1:07:30

if I'm carrying heavy load, I want it on

1:07:32

my hips because my hips are supported by my

1:07:34

glutes and by my abdomen muscles. In comparison, my

1:07:36

shoulders are really puny, so I don't want having

1:07:40

to support a lot of weight with

1:07:42

my shoulders. The other type

1:07:44

of backpack is a famous backpack, like this one

1:07:46

here. It doesn't have anything rigid in it at

1:07:48

all, and if I try to do that

1:07:50

same exact thing, the

1:07:54

backpack will just fall over. Now, not

1:07:58

all of the weight gets supported by my shoulders. shoulders, but

1:08:00

I'd say probably say three-quarters of it.

1:08:02

Well, we get supported by my shoulders.

1:08:04

But my shoulders are strong enough to

1:08:06

support 25-30 pounds, but

1:08:09

as soon as I kind of go over that threshold, I want something

1:08:11

with a little bit more with a more

1:08:13

rigid system. And

1:08:15

then to waterproof my

1:08:18

backpack, I just

1:08:20

take a plastic trash compactor

1:08:22

bag. So you can buy a whole bundle of

1:08:24

these. I think I like this was years ago

1:08:26

I bought like a 50 rolls

1:08:29

for like 15 bucks at Walmart. They

1:08:32

last about a month. They're very waterproof

1:08:34

and I just put it on the... I'll

1:08:38

take my sleeping pad and by

1:08:46

putting the sleeping pad in here and then putting

1:08:48

this inside the backpack, it gives

1:08:50

my... it gives

1:08:54

what is otherwise a rigid

1:08:58

or unrigid backpack some structure and some shape.

1:09:00

And it also protects my back against anything

1:09:03

that might be hard on the inside

1:09:05

of the pack. Natural

1:09:07

Geographic did a beautiful 16-page spread

1:09:10

on my Alaska Yukon expedition. There were

1:09:12

signed copies available. There any more left?

1:09:16

No? Okay, that's fine. You

1:09:18

can all... if you'd like, you can grab... there's... I still

1:09:20

have some for sale on my website. And

1:09:23

then finally... I do... I mentioned

1:09:28

a few times, but I do guided

1:09:30

trips. So this year I'll be offering

1:09:33

three seven-day trips up in the High Sierra

1:09:35

in Yosemite Valley and also be doing one

1:09:37

three-day trip that's much more of a beginner

1:09:40

intermediate trip out at Henry Coast

1:09:42

State Park. It'll... it's the middle of

1:09:44

May. I believe it's the 14th

1:09:46

through the 16th. So it's a Friday through a Sunday. And

1:09:48

the whole objective is

1:09:50

to basically learn about and apply the gear

1:09:52

supplies and skills that we've discussed today

1:09:55

plus a lot more. So if you're interested in one

1:09:57

of those trips on one of the

1:09:59

table or one of the... back there. There was some

1:10:01

pamphlets, but I'll leave some up here as

1:10:03

well, just sort of some information. And that's

1:10:06

all also up on my website. All right.

1:10:08

Thank you very much, guys. Appreciate it. Thanks

1:10:18

for listening. To discover more

1:10:20

amazing content, you can always

1:10:22

find us online at youtube.com/talks

1:10:24

at Google or via our

1:10:26

Twitter handle at talks at

1:10:28

Google. Talk soon.