0:07

Welcome to the Talks at Google

0:09

Podcast for great minds me, I'm

0:11

Rachel Pregame you This week's episode

0:14

with cognitive Neuroscientist Sarah Meddling Talks

0:16

at Google brings the world's most

0:18

influential thinkers, creators, makers, and doers

0:20

all to one place. Every episode

0:22

is taken. From a video that

0:24

can be seen a you tube.com/talks

0:27

at Google. Sarah

0:29

my next visit school to discuss her

0:31

book. Take a nap, change your life.

0:33

Imagine a product that increases alertness boost.

0:36

Creativity reduces stress, improves perception, stamina,

0:38

motor skills, and accuracy helps you

0:40

make better decisions. Keeps you looking

0:42

younger age and weight loss reduces

0:44

the risk of heart attack, elevate

0:46

your mood, and strengthens your memory.

0:49

Now imagine that this product is

0:51

non toxic, has no dangerous side

0:53

effects and best of all is

0:55

absolutely free. This miracle. Drug is in

0:57

fact nothing more than than app. The right

0:59

nap at the right time. Thera Men next

1:02

book Take a Nap Details are scientifically based

1:04

breakthrough program that shows how we can fight

1:06

the fatigue epidemic through a custom designed to

1:08

nap. Book explains the

1:11

five stages of the sleep cycle

1:13

particularly stage two or slow wave

1:15

sleep and Ram and the benefits

1:17

each one provides. How to. Assess your

1:19

tiredness and set up a personal sleep profile

1:21

and how to neutralize the voice in your

1:23

head that tells you napping as a sign

1:25

of laziness. Using the unique nap wheel on

1:28

the cover and interior graphs and charts, it

1:30

shows us exactly when are optimal mapping time

1:32

as and exactly how long we should try

1:34

to sleep. Even how it's possible

1:36

to design. A nap to inspire creativity one day

1:38

and the next day? design want to help us

1:41

with our memory. There are tips on how to

1:43

create the right nap environment. A sixteen

1:45

step technique for falling asleep, a

1:47

six week napping workbook, and more.

1:49

Originally. Published in November of two thousand

1:52

and seven here. Sarah Matic Take a

1:54

nap, change your life. Thank

2:03

you very much for having the at Google. It's a

2:05

real real pleasure to be here and I just want

2:07

to start with a disclaimer to say that I know

2:09

you guys are extremely overworked, so if any of you

2:12

take this opportunity, take a little nap. I.

2:14

Will not be offended. Go

2:16

right ahead of at hopefully your neighbor Will does

2:19

not. You have anything really exciting happens. So

2:23

first of all, why do we need a book about napping? Well,

2:26

one reason is the earth that comes

2:28

from the National Sleep Foundation which is

2:31

a nonprofit organization that studies are sleep

2:33

and has sleep deprived. We are and

2:35

find that about forty percent of Americans

2:37

are sleeping around six point seven hours

2:40

at night when we should be getting

2:42

around eight hours. So that doesn't just

2:44

happen to people like you who are

2:46

working really hard. but it happened so

2:48

kids and middle age and older adults

2:51

as well. So there's definitely children. Are

2:53

shown to be sleeping an hour less

2:55

than they should be in it spans

2:57

the ages is also spend the sexes

2:59

So men have always been researched salon

3:01

in science and now women are actually

3:03

becoming more of a subject to look

3:05

at in science and finding actually that

3:07

women are really reporting sleep troubles at

3:09

really high rate. Sixty seven percent of

3:11

women reported troubles a sleeping three nights

3:13

or more a week. And

3:16

of course everybody's is that had a child

3:18

knows that Others the whole issue of being

3:21

a parent and never sleeping in, being looking

3:23

like you're on a rotating shifts so that

3:25

it in and that can probably be the

3:27

worst thing for your cognition at all. So

3:30

what's the cost of sleep deprivation? Well

3:33

they suddenly health costs and sleep deprivation

3:35

has been shown to decrease at to

3:37

increase your risk for heart disease, increases

3:40

high blood pressure. And

3:42

actually about five nights of say only

3:44

sleeping six nights a week can actually

3:46

you raise your insulin levels of the

3:49

you look like you're at pre diabetic

3:51

levels. also increases your stress levels. and

3:53

but here is for depression. safety

3:56

of course there is a smaller things

3:58

like car accidents which fatal and

4:00

terrible but also really large global problems

4:03

to the environment such as the Exxon

4:05

Valdez and Bhopal and a

4:07

lot of these major accidents that in

4:09

some part have been due to somebody

4:11

really just falling asleep on the job.

4:13

There's also the Department of Labor has shown

4:15

that there's a 4% loss even just entering

4:19

every day that if you're sleep deprived

4:21

you're already bringing in a 4%

4:23

loss to your productivity. And

4:27

of course education, cognition in general decreases and

4:29

I'm going to show you a bunch of

4:31

evidence about this. So

4:34

now one question is, is

4:37

everyone a victim

4:39

of sleep deprivation or are some people more immune than

4:41

others? And I'm sure a lot of people here probably

4:43

think that they can get by on less sleep and

4:46

I know in grad school I definitely thought the same

4:48

thing. And of course the

4:51

probably the worst culprits of them all are the

4:54

doctors and nurses because they have a culture of

4:56

really not sleeping and learning how to get by

4:58

on very little sleep. But in

5:00

fact a recent study that came out of Harvard was showing

5:02

that comparing doctors who

5:04

work 30-hour shifts versus doctors who work

5:07

10-hour shifts and those 30-hour shift doctors

5:09

were making 700% more

5:11

errors. So that's like

5:13

kind of a chilling number especially if you think

5:15

about the errors that they could possibly be making.

5:18

Nurses as well have been shown to be extremely dangerous

5:20

once they get out of work

5:22

on the road, they get into more accidents.

5:25

Soldiers as well, one

5:28

pretty important quote that I heard from a

5:30

general was saying that sleep deprivation is one

5:32

of the major killers in Iraq right now

5:34

because there's just so many errors that are

5:37

occurring that could very well be

5:39

due to just people being very too tired to think

5:41

about what they're doing. And

5:43

politicians of course the people who are making the

5:46

laws happen. So the idea is

5:48

what are we supposed to do because what doctors are

5:51

saying is that we should just sleep more and as

5:53

all you Know it's really hard

5:55

to find an extra hour in the night

5:57

time to sleep because we're already basically maxed

5:59

out. And

6:01

a person a whole bunch of education about

6:03

increasing i Sleep house at that really is

6:06

very important right? We need to figure out

6:08

and say you shouldn't be sued with the

6:10

lights on that you shouldn't be sleeping and

6:12

with a T V on that all these

6:14

different and that you should turn off your

6:16

computer and does he know not do anything

6:18

else in bed said the pepper. Very important

6:20

things and and though there's things that were

6:23

will learn. But what really happens is that

6:25

instead of sleeping we actually go to sing.

6:27

And pretty bad a coping mechanism first has

6:29

caffeine. I mean everyone drink caffeine. About Ninety

6:31

Percent Publishing's. Caffeine but then you also athlete

6:33

The racing can lead to an increased risk

6:35

and use of stimulants. And

6:38

definitely. And people who are sleep deprived, shown

6:40

to reach for more high fat and sugary

6:42

foods because you know your body's probably in

6:45

a state of emergency and thinking, why meisel

6:47

sleep deprived something that's gonna happen? I better

6:49

get a lot of energy from really bad

6:51

food. So he does. He just kind of

6:53

is a nasty spiral. So

6:55

I'm just gonna move on from the horror

6:57

story and then sort of tell you my

6:59

own little story about how I actually got

7:01

to studying this kind of stuff. I

7:05

was in grad school wandering the halls

7:07

of Lame James totally sleep deprived as

7:09

everyone usually is and looking for a

7:11

thesis and I ran into at a

7:13

lecture by a Roberts the Cold and

7:15

he was doing stuff looking at memory

7:17

performance after a full night's sleep in

7:19

showing that will you need at least

7:21

six hours of sleep to show improvements

7:23

in memory and celebs? Really interesting. I

7:25

want to study something like that and

7:27

always are talking but it's I realize

7:29

that in fact all those people who

7:31

I knew who are never as I

7:33

wasn't. Really enough for myself, but other people

7:36

who were numbers really swear by there now

7:38

and it doesn't really jive with the nocturnal

7:40

sleep literature. How is it sets? A nap

7:42

of twenty minutes or an hour can make

7:44

you feel really, really good when you need

7:47

at least six hours to so any differences

7:49

and performance. So that was. Why

7:52

I started looking into nothing as a thing

7:54

to study. And.

7:56

While. I was actually a doing this research.

7:59

I decided that. I am I you know

8:01

much like he was saying so guilty of

8:03

this idea that idea I had it's really

8:05

bad thought that napping. as for the lazy

8:07

people and and one day when I was

8:09

falling with my desk I just as as

8:11

give it a try and it was. A

8:13

great experience. I went into my friend Jays

8:15

office and I slip down on the couch

8:17

as a crashed out and I woke up

8:19

an hour later and I was able to

8:21

work for the full ale to am without

8:23

falling asleep at all. I'm feeling really great

8:25

and that has data works. It's really cool.

8:27

So I started actually napping regularly in the

8:29

lab and and Loins Higher Lab actually started

8:31

rotating on the couch and we stole the

8:33

couch from Jay and moved into this kind

8:35

of com an area where we could turn

8:37

off the lights and. You

8:40

know not have any disturbance and then people

8:42

like all our started sleeping on the couch.

8:44

for it's just to let themselves get to

8:47

a place where they can actually continue working

8:49

in and and have much more stamina through

8:51

the day. That was pretty exciting to have.

8:53

Kind of the first will net positive workplace

8:55

to. M C go to and create.

8:59

So many go over the stages of sleep is

9:01

kind of just sleep one on one level. pointer

9:03

here. Let's

9:06

see so across the. Dc.

9:09

Would here on this. Whole

9:13

Uggla on the on the son of

9:15

a here the far one so across

9:18

the top over here you see the

9:20

this is night so eleven pm to

9:22

six am and what these colored bars

9:24

represent or the different stages of sleep.

9:28

And what happens is actually you go through

9:30

a normalized legal go through of four or

9:32

five was called sleep cycles. And a sleep

9:34

cycle means that you're going to pass through

9:37

all the different stages of sleep in and

9:39

I have them down here. with is waking

9:41

of course. And then there's also stage. one

9:43

stage two and slow wave sleep and

9:45

then once you rat backed up to

9:48

this stage one sleep it turns out

9:50

to be rem sleep actually rapid eye

9:52

movement sleep over here is the eg

9:54

output i'm which insists that electrical signaling

9:56

that's going on in your brain during

9:58

his different stages of sleep. And

10:01

as you can see during waking, things

10:04

are really busy. It's very hectic stuff up there

10:06

going on in your brain. Lots

10:08

of brain areas are speaking all at the same

10:10

time and you're basically multitasking. And then once

10:12

you fall into sleep, one of

10:14

the biggest metabolic changes that

10:17

you ever really experience happens

10:19

every time you get to sleep and everything really starts

10:21

to slow down and quiet down. And you can see

10:24

as you go from stage one into stage

10:26

two, things start to slow down all the

10:28

way into slow wave sleep and this is

10:30

what's called delta waves, which is basically your

10:32

whole brain is speaking in synchrony at a

10:34

very slow rate. And

10:37

once you get through slow wave sleep, then you

10:39

wrap back through stage two and you get up

10:42

to REM sleep again. And REM sleep actually looks

10:44

very similar to waking because

10:46

it's a very busy time in your brain. But

10:52

the only thing that's different about REM sleep from stage

10:54

one is that you're actually paralyzed and you have these

10:56

rapid eye movements. So

10:58

what you might notice going across the

11:01

evening up here on the top of the screen

11:03

here is that there's a lot

11:05

more slow wave sleep in the first part of

11:07

the night. And then slow wave sleep starts to

11:09

taper off and then you have

11:11

an increase in REM sleep. Now

11:13

this is actually a very important phenomenon that happens.

11:16

So the idea is what are we supposed to

11:18

do because what doctors are saying is that we

11:20

should just sleep more. And as all of you

11:22

know, it's really hard to find an extra hour

11:24

in the nighttime to sleep because we're already basically

11:26

maxed out. And

11:29

of course, there's a whole bunch of education about

11:31

increasing our sleep pulse that really is very important,

11:33

right? We need to figure out that

11:35

you shouldn't be sleeping with a light sound, that you shouldn't be

11:37

sleeping with a TV on, that all these

11:39

different – that you should turn off

11:41

your computer and just not do anything else in

11:44

bed, but just a couple very important things. And

11:47

those are things that we'll learn, but what

11:49

really happens is that instead of sleeping, we

11:51

actually go to some pretty

11:53

bad coping mechanisms. First is caffeine.

11:55

I mean, everyone drinks caffeine.

11:57

About 90 percent of the population drinks caffeine. And

12:00

you also, sleep deprivation can lead

12:02

to an increased risk and use of stimulants. And

12:06

definitely people who are sleep deprived

12:08

are shown to reach for more high fat and

12:10

sugary foods because, you know, your body is probably

12:12

in a state of emergency and thinking, why am

12:14

I so sleep deprived? Something bad is going to

12:16

happen. I better get a lot of energy from

12:18

really bad food. So, you know, you just kind

12:20

of, it's a nasty spiral. So

12:23

I'm just going to move on from the horror

12:25

story and then sort of tell you my own little

12:27

story about how I actually got

12:29

to studying this kind of stuff. I

12:32

was in grad school wandering the halls

12:34

of William James, totally sleep deprived as

12:36

everyone usually is, and looking for

12:38

a thesis. And I ran

12:40

into a lecture by Robert

12:42

Stickle, and he was doing stuff looking at memory

12:45

performance after a full night of

12:47

sleep and showing that, well, you need at least six hours of

12:49

sleep to show improvements in memory.

12:52

And I thought, well, that's really interesting. I want to

12:54

study something like that. And then when we started talking

12:56

about it, I realized that, in fact, all those people

12:59

who I knew who were nappers, I wasn't really a

13:01

napper myself, but all those people who were

13:04

nappers really swear by their naps. And it

13:06

doesn't really jive with the nocturnal sleep literature. How

13:09

is it that a nap of 20 minutes or

13:11

an hour can make you feel really, really good

13:13

when you need at least six hours to show

13:15

any differences in performance? So that

13:17

was why I started

13:19

looking into napping as a thing to study. And

13:24

while I was actually doing this research, I

13:26

decided that I am, much like

13:28

Kiki was saying, sort of

13:31

guilty of this idea that I had this

13:33

really bad thought that napping was for lazy

13:35

people. And one day when I

13:37

was falling asleep at my desk, I just decided to give it a try. And it was a

13:39

great experience. I

13:41

went into my friend Jay's office, and I slept down

13:43

on the couch, and just crashed out. And I woke

13:46

up an hour later, and I was able to work

13:48

for the full, you know, until 2 a.m. without falling

13:50

asleep at all. I'm feeling really great. And I was

13:52

like, this is data work. It's really

13:54

cool. So I started

13:56

actually napping regularly in the lab. And then the

13:58

entire lab actually started rolling. rotating on this couch

14:00

and we stole the couch from Jay and moved

14:02

it into this kind of common area where we

14:04

could turn off the lights and not

14:08

have any disturbance and then people like

14:10

all hours started sleeping on this couch

14:12

just to let themselves get to a

14:14

place where they could actually continue working

14:17

and have much more stamina through the day. So

14:19

that was pretty exciting to have kind of

14:21

the first real nap positive workplace to go

14:24

to and create. So

14:27

I'm going to go over the stages of sleep. This is kind of just

14:29

sleep 101 and I have a little pointer

14:31

here. Let's

14:33

see. So across the, can

14:36

you see here on this, I'll

14:41

be on this one over here, the far one.

14:44

So across the top

14:46

over here you see this is the nighttime, so 11 p.m. to

14:48

6 a.m. And

14:50

what these colored bars represent are the

14:53

different stages of sleep. And

14:55

what happens is actually you go through a

14:57

normalized sleep, you'll go through a four or

15:00

five what's called sleep cycles. And

15:02

a sleep cycle means that you're going

15:04

to pass through all the different stages of sleep.

15:07

And I have them down here. Well, there's waking

15:09

of course and then there's also stage one, stage

15:11

two and slow wave sleep. And then

15:13

once you wrap back up to stage

15:16

one sleep, it turns it to be REM

15:19

sleep actually, rapid eye movement sleep. Over

15:21

here is the EEG output, which

15:23

is just the electrical signaling that's going on in your

15:25

brain during these different stages of sleep. And

15:28

as you can see during waking, things

15:31

are really busy. The very hectic stuff up there going

15:33

on in your brain. Lots

15:36

of brain areas are speaking all at the same

15:38

time and you're basically multitasking. And then once you

15:40

fall into sleep, one of the biggest

15:43

metabolic changes that you ever really

15:45

experience happens every time you

15:47

get to sleep and everything really starts to slow down

15:49

and quiet down. And you can see as

15:52

you go from stage one into stage two, things

15:54

start to slow down all the way into slow

15:56

wave sleep. And this is what's called delta waves,

15:58

which is basically your whole life. whole brain

16:00

is speaking in synchrony at a very slow

16:02

rate. And

16:04

once you get through slow wave sleep, then you

16:07

wrap back through stage two, and you get

16:09

up to REM sleep again. And REM sleep actually

16:11

looks very similar to waking,

16:14

because it's a very busy time in your brain.

16:19

But the only thing that's different about REM sleep from

16:21

stage one is that you're actually paralyzed, and you have

16:23

these rapid eye movements. So

16:26

what you might notice going across the

16:28

evening up here on the top of the screen

16:30

here is that there's a lot more

16:32

slow wave sleep in the first part of the

16:35

night. And then slow wave sleep starts to taper

16:37

off, and then you have an increase

16:39

in REM sleep. So what happens is that you have a

16:41

lot of slow wave sleep in the first part of the

16:43

night, and then you have slow wave

16:45

sleep tapering off, and you have more and more REM. So

16:47

each epoch is actually really different

16:50

in terms of the distribution of the

16:53

different sleep cycles. And what's interesting is that this

16:55

doesn't really end when you wake up. It

16:58

actually continues throughout the 24-hour cycle. And

17:01

the nap wheel on the front of the book

17:03

actually helps you illustrate this, and I'll get back

17:05

to that a little bit later. But what this

17:07

means is that naps in the morning are gonna

17:10

have more REM sleep, and

17:12

naps in the afternoon are gonna have more slow

17:14

wave sleep. And then finally, the afternoon moves into

17:16

the evening, and then you have a lot of

17:18

slow wave sleep in the evening. All

17:21

right, so keep all that in mind, and we're gonna move on. So

17:24

let's get to the first study. What we

17:27

did is just take a really simple visual task

17:29

where people basically are just looking at a computer

17:31

screen. I'm sure probably some of you did this

17:33

in college, and you had some visual stimulus pop

17:36

up, and you're just supposed to say, what is

17:38

the orientation of the line, or what's the spatial

17:40

orientation of whatever it was? And this is just

17:43

oriented lines flashing up, and you just say left or

17:45

right. Now, we're

17:48

gonna go real simple and just test them four times in

17:50

one day, and just first see what happens when we test

17:52

them four times in one day. And

17:54

then we're gonna stick a nap in between the

17:57

second and the third testing

17:59

session. We have two naps, one is a half

18:01

an hour nap and one is a 60 minute nap.

18:04

But what we were really surprised to find was

18:08

this is actually the no nap condition. So

18:10

here is the sessions, four sessions in one

18:12

day. And here is

18:14

performance. And this is actually a different

18:16

score. So people's initial score was their

18:19

baseline. And we subtracted the scores from

18:21

there to see what was the change

18:23

in performance. What we find is actually

18:25

people's performance decreases across the

18:27

day. And that has actually spawned a whole

18:29

other area of research for me. But I'm not going

18:31

to really go into that. But just so you know,

18:34

the idea of being able to... Oops, I

18:37

hit this button by accident anyway. The idea of

18:39

being able to continue working on the same thing

18:41

all day long is just... You're just not going

18:43

to be able to actually do it. So it's

18:45

something to keep in mind. So now when we

18:47

give people a nap right in between the second

18:50

and third testing session, what we find is that

18:52

performance actually levels out. So

18:54

that you stay at whatever level of deterioration you are at and

18:56

you just don't get any worse. Which is definitely good. But

19:00

then when we actually add the 60-minute nap,

19:02

people of course deteriorate in the second session.

19:04

And then their performance actually returns to baseline.

19:06

And it stays at baseline for the next

19:09

two sessions. So we were

19:11

pretty surprised to find that. So what's special about

19:13

the 60-minute nap? Well, what you

19:15

saw in the different cycles of

19:17

sleep was that actually you go through slow-wave sleep first

19:20

and then you go through REM. So the first

19:22

60 minutes of sleep have a

19:24

lot of slow-wave sleep in them. And what we

19:26

found actually when we compared the 60-minute nap to

19:29

a baseline nap was that in fact they did

19:31

have more slow-wave sleep. So

19:33

something about this slow-wave

19:35

sleep nap was helping you not deteriorate

19:37

and stay at your optimal level of

19:39

performance throughout the day. All

19:42

right, well the next thing we thought was what

19:45

happens if we actually add REM sleep? Because REM

19:47

sleep has been getting a lot of attention as

19:49

being this really incredibly important stage

19:51

of sleep for learning. So let's just extend

19:53

the nap. We

19:57

actually cut out the two middlemen in here.

20:00

have one nap in the morning and one nap

20:02

in the evening, and we have three different nap

20:04

conditions this time. One is a

20:06

no nap control. The other one is

20:08

a slow-wave sleep-only nap, so we stop

20:10

the nap right around 60 minutes. And

20:13

we also have a slow-wave sleep plus REM, so we let

20:15

them sleep for the full 90 minutes, because that's how long

20:17

it takes to go through this whole sleep cycle. And

20:20

then we test them again in the afternoon. So

20:25

this is going to be a bar graph, but basically what

20:27

I'm showing you here is this is the control group with

20:30

no slow-wave sleep and no REM. Here is

20:32

going to be the slow-wave sleep and no

20:35

REM, and here is slow-wave sleep and REM. So

20:38

again, people, when they don't

20:40

get a nap at all, they deteriorate, even with

20:42

just one second test session. And

20:46

when you give people only slow-wave sleep, we had

20:48

two naps. We had a 60-minute nap and a

20:50

90-minute nap. Actually, it doesn't matter how

20:52

long you're napping for, but it's the fact that

20:54

you have slow-wave sleep in your nap, that

20:57

they don't show any deterioration. And

21:01

then when we add the nap with slow-wave sleep plus

21:03

REM, what we find is that people actually show learning,

21:06

and that's learning above baseline. So

21:09

one thing that was really exciting about that is

21:11

that this had been shown in

21:13

nocturnal sleep, and so we thought, well, that's amazing, right? 60

21:16

minutes or 90 minutes of

21:19

sleep is showing learning, and you

21:22

need at least six hours of sleep to show learning with nocturnal

21:24

sleep. What's the deal? So

21:26

we decided to compare this amount of learning to

21:29

people who have actually had a full night of

21:31

sleep and see how much, whether it's

21:33

the same amount. So this

21:35

is learning after a nap at

21:38

7 p.m., and this is learning

21:41

after a full night of sleep. So in

21:43

fact, yeah, that napping was delivering the same

21:45

amount of learning as a full night of

21:47

sleep. So then we brought this

21:50

nap group back the next day and tested them

21:52

one more time in the morning, and then we

21:54

went to see what would happen. Maybe that was,

21:56

you know, they would saturate at their level of

21:58

learning, or maybe also... sleep is additive

22:00

and the more you do, the better you get.

22:04

And that's actually what we found. So that this is the

22:06

group, this is the nappers after a nap and a night

22:08

of sleep and they're showing double the

22:10

amount of learning so that sleep

22:13

does seem to be additive. No matter when you're getting

22:15

it, you're going to get some benefits. So

22:19

just to summarize really quickly is

22:21

just we found that a nap with

22:23

slow-wave sleep can ameliorate this deterioration and

22:26

that the nap containing both slow-wave sleep and REM can

22:28

improve visual memory to the same extent as the night

22:30

of sleep. So one

22:33

question that you're probably asking is like how could that

22:35

possibly be, right? How can a nap of 60 minutes

22:37

or 90 minutes actually give you

22:39

that kind of performance changes? And one

22:41

important thing is the time of day. And

22:44

the way that I'm going to illustrate this is

22:46

through this nap wheel. And

22:49

just so I'm going to take

22:51

this off the screen really quickly so you don't

22:53

vomit, but oops, I keep pressing

22:55

their own button here. Let's go back there. I

22:58

just want to show you just

23:00

how to look at this. This is the hours of the

23:02

day. So this is midnight and this

23:04

is noon, right? And this is 6 a.m. and this

23:06

is 6 p.m. So that's the way

23:08

to just orient yourself on this. So

23:11

the interesting thing about sleep science is that we're

23:13

continuing to find out new stuff. And what we

23:15

keep finding is that different stages of sleep seem

23:17

to be leading to different kinds of learning. So

23:20

stage two, slow-wave sleep and REM, each

23:22

are offering you different improvements

23:24

in your behavior. So stage

23:26

two, we're just going to break this down. Stage two

23:29

has been shown to be

23:32

very good for alertness. So when

23:35

you take a power nap, what that is is the first

23:37

20 minutes of sleep

23:39

is a power nap. And

23:41

that's all stage two sleep. And

23:44

that's why it really makes you feel really perky

23:46

and feels like you're kind of, you know, back,

23:48

you've got the reset button on. What

23:51

it also does is it improves your motor memory. So

23:53

anybody who, does anybody here use a computer? Right.

23:56

Okay. So typing, anything that you're

23:59

learning, like guitar. anything where you're actually

24:01

using, you know, multiple kinds of motor

24:04

movements. That's what you're doing when you're doing,

24:06

when you're getting stage two sleep, enhancing in

24:08

that domain. So now let's

24:10

look at slow wave sleep. So

24:14

this circle basically represents how

24:17

slow wave sleep is distributed across the across

24:19

the day. And the

24:21

way you can read it is the radius from

24:23

the center will tell you basically like how much

24:26

slow wave sleep you're going to get. So and

24:28

it's very much determined by what time you wake

24:30

up in the morning. And so in the afternoon

24:32

you're seeing there's a lot more slow wave sleep

24:34

afternoon and late evening, a lot more slow wave

24:36

sleep than in the morning. So what

24:38

we know about slow wave sleep is that it's deeply

24:40

restorative. This is where you've kind of heard of cortisol

24:43

and growth hormone. Cortisol is what basically, you know, fight

24:45

or flight, but it also gives you a lot of,

24:47

it's a stress hormone, very good for you, but you

24:49

don't want to have too much of it. And what

24:51

happens when you get slow wave sleep is you have

24:53

a decrease in cortisol and an

24:55

increase in growth hormone, which is sort of the antidote

24:59

to cortisol. So it's very restorative. People

25:01

who do a lot of working out can

25:03

usually want to take a deep slow wave

25:06

sleep nap. Also

25:08

clears the mind. So that deterioration I was showing

25:10

you, right, that slow wave sleep nap is going

25:12

to help you not have that kind of ambush

25:15

of too much information in your mind. It kind of clears

25:17

the desktop. It

25:19

also helps with declarative and spatial memory. And what that

25:21

really means is say if you ever go to Google

25:23

Maps and you're traveling around, you're trying to remember where

25:25

different things are on the map, that's spatial memory. And

25:28

then when you leave and you go talk to somebody

25:30

and say, I just looked at this, this, and this,

25:32

this, that's declarative memory, like really specific bits of information.

25:34

So slow wave sleep is good for that. Then

25:37

there's REM sleep. Now REM sleep is

25:40

kind of the darling of sleep research. People get

25:42

very excited over it and, you know, it's probably

25:44

for good reason. And what

25:46

we find is that REM sleep doesn't

25:49

really vary very much. It

25:51

actually stays pretty, sticks with a

25:53

circadian cycle, which doesn't really vary

25:56

by your sleep habits. So you

25:58

have a lot of of REM

26:00

sleep in the morning, as I told you about, and

26:02

then it starts to taper off in

26:04

the afternoon. And REM sleep

26:06

has been shown to be very good for creativity,

26:08

for gaining new kinds of insights, for your perceptual

26:11

skills, so any kind of thing where you're using

26:13

your visual skills, your auditory skills, REM sleep is

26:15

very good for. And

26:17

also dreaming. This is when you have most of your dreams. So

26:20

in the morning when you have a lot of REM sleep, it's

26:22

when you wake up and you think, I was just dreaming all

26:24

night, it was actually just the morning area where you were kind

26:26

of having a lot of that dream. And nobody really knows what

26:28

dreams are for, so I'll just say that

26:30

I have no idea what dreams are for. And

26:33

it's a very interesting topic, but it's very difficult

26:35

to study, and so thus far we're just sticking

26:37

to learning and memory, and hopefully sooner or later

26:39

we'll figure it all out. So

26:43

just putting it all together now, what

26:47

we can find is actually that the

26:51

way that this works, basically, is that you set

26:53

your wake up time to be whatever it's going

26:55

to be, and then that is going

26:57

to actually determine how much slow-wave sleep you're going to

26:59

have in your nap. REM

27:02

sleep doesn't really change

27:04

very much, as I said. So the

27:06

important part is really, where is the

27:09

juncture between the REM and the slow-wave sleep, and that's

27:11

that little cross right there. So usually

27:13

for most of us who wake up between 6

27:15

and 8 a.m., it's going to be between 1

27:17

and 3 p.m. And that's usually where we put

27:19

most of our naps, that's where we feel that

27:22

kind of trough in our energy. But if you're

27:24

waking up, say, at 4 a.m., you'd

27:26

feel it more between probably 12 and 2, and then

27:28

if you're waking up at 10 a.m., you'd feel it

27:30

more between, say, 3 and 5 or something. And this

27:32

is this kind of stuff that you can start to

27:35

play with, because as I showed you, these different stages

27:37

of sleep can really affect the kind of

27:39

performance changes that you want to see in your life, and

27:42

so you can kind of tailor your nap to actually

27:44

suit your specific needs, and that's part of what we

27:46

talk about in Take a Nap, Change Your Life. Okay,

27:49

well, that's all kind of really fun and fancy

27:52

and cool, but the truth is that not a

27:54

lot of people actually do nap,

27:56

right? And what most people

27:58

do is, I guess I could Say, how

28:00

many people here nap? Raise your

28:02

hand. All right, and how many

28:04

people here drink caffeine? Right.

28:08

That's what most people do. So I decided

28:10

to do a study looking at comparing napping

28:12

to caffeine. And

28:15

what we found, well first of all, about 90% of

28:17

North Americans use caffeine and they drink

28:19

really high amounts because in, you

28:22

know, places like Starbucks right now, what

28:24

we used to know is that a cup of coffee was

28:27

like 100 milligrams and now a cup of coffee is about

28:29

250 milligrams. So

28:31

they're really bringing up the amount

28:33

of caffeine and that may have to do with

28:35

the fact that it's an addictive substance,

28:37

but anyway. So

28:42

it's cognitive benefits are mixed. That's the one thing that

28:44

we do know, is that we're not really sure. We

28:46

know it helps with alertness and it's really important if

28:48

you're sleep deprived, but what is it doing for your

28:50

brain in terms of thinking? So

28:52

we just want to ask this question, how naps and caffeine

28:54

compare on memory tests. So

28:56

again, here's the experimental timeline. I

29:00

have two lists of words and this is gonna be

29:02

a verbal memory, so basically anything that you just were

29:04

talking about with your friends, can you just repeat back

29:06

to me what it is that you just were talking

29:08

about. So we have a list

29:10

of words that they learn in the morning. One

29:13

group takes a nap and it's, I

29:15

think the mean minutes for the nap is like 65 minutes.

29:20

There's two other groups and they get a pill at

29:24

three o'clock and it's an unmarked pill, so

29:26

it could either be a placebo, it could

29:28

be 200 milligrams of caffeine. And

29:30

then in the afternoon, they get retested on that same

29:33

list of words. And then they

29:35

also just get tested on a new list of

29:37

words. So what we're looking at is long-term memory

29:39

and short-term memory, the ability

29:41

to acquire new information. Okay,

29:45

so what we found is kind of sad, is

29:47

that naps, well naps are

29:49

good, right? That they helped you

29:51

improve your verbal memory. And this

29:53

is after, this is in a seven-hour delay. So

29:55

the words that you remembered earlier this morning, you

29:57

were better than... you

30:00

were much better if you took a nap than

30:02

if you took some caffeine and this is a

30:05

pretty significant difference here. But

30:07

what we also found is that the things that you just

30:09

heard, if you just had a

30:11

dose of caffeine, you're probably also not as good

30:13

as holding on to that information either. So caffeine

30:16

was significantly worse than

30:18

napping in this immediate

30:21

recall which was just his ability to acquire new

30:23

information. So what does that mean in the real

30:25

world? That means

30:27

whatever morning phone call you had you probably

30:29

are not as good at remembering what it

30:31

was than you would have been if you

30:33

took a nap. And

30:37

also whatever you just happened to talk to

30:39

with somebody, maybe your boss or a client,

30:41

that is also where you may actually have

30:43

been getting a little bit of

30:45

a deficit if you had caffeine rather than a nap. So

30:50

to summarize just the caffeine part is that caffeine is

30:52

worse than napping for verbal and I didn't show you

30:54

this data but also for a motor task which is

30:56

we were talking about the motor learning earlier. And this

31:00

is an interesting idea right is that

31:02

evidence that perceived benefits from caffeine are

31:04

due to the elimination of withdrawal symptoms

31:08

but not actually cognitive enhancement. So it may

31:10

actually be that we're becoming more and more

31:12

addicted to caffeine and so if we don't

31:14

have it we're going to not do as

31:16

well on cognitive tasks and if we do

31:18

have it you know that's we're just going

31:20

to get to our good limit that and these

31:22

people were actually not really big caffeine drinkers that's

31:25

another caveat of this study. So

31:29

I'm going to end on yeah

31:38

yeah that's that's it wasn't

31:40

always significant but sometimes the

31:42

placebo was better sometimes the

31:44

caffeine was just

31:46

it look it is different but it's not significantly different

31:48

there's a lot of variance in the caffeine group and

31:50

I think that's another thing is that some people do

31:52

really well with caffeine and some people do really poorly.

31:57

So the corporate nap initiative is something that I recently started

32:00

in order to see how these laboratory results

32:03

actually work in the real world. And

32:05

what we're doing is basically trying to implement and

32:07

assess napping as a tool for productivity in the

32:09

corporate environment. So the first

32:11

pilot program was at a Manhattan publishing house. We

32:14

got 40 volunteers. And

32:16

over a two-month period, they basically just said that

32:18

they would do this. On

32:21

one month, they would nap every day, and on

32:23

another month, they wouldn't. Then we'd counterbalance that, so there wasn't

32:25

really an order effect of like, suddenly you're able to nap

32:27

and you felt much better. And

32:29

we did daily assessments. First, when they

32:32

got in the morning, they would just say,

32:34

well, how did they sleep that night? And

32:36

then when they left that day, they

32:38

just told me, how did they do that

32:40

day? Basically, were they more productive that day or less

32:42

productive? So

32:45

the first question that we really wanted to know is

32:47

whether the naps would actually decrease their nocturnal sleep. Because

32:49

I think a lot of people have that fear that

32:52

if they start napping, that they won't be able to

32:54

sleep at night. So the exciting thing is just one

32:56

thing is that we made sure that they kept the

32:58

same bedtime and wake time. So there was absolutely no

33:01

difference in their bedtime and wake time. It's more that

33:03

what was the quality of their sleep during that time

33:05

that they were in bed? And what

33:07

was... so these... the graphs are going to be all

33:09

looking like this. So

33:11

just get used to this, which is that this

33:13

is Monday through Friday, and then this is the average

33:15

difference. And this is the month...

33:17

in pink is the month where they were actually

33:19

napping, and in blue is the month that they

33:21

were not napping. So

33:24

this is within subject design, right? And what

33:26

we find here is that people,

33:29

when they are napping, they take less time

33:31

to fall asleep. And

33:34

when they are napping, they more often will sleep

33:36

through the night. And

33:39

that is a change in 14% and 12%. So

33:42

we were actually really surprised to find that because I

33:45

guess I was, you know, pessimistic and thinking, uh-oh,

33:47

we might actually mess up their sleep. But

33:50

in fact, if you think about it, if you know

33:52

any children who don't get their nap, they're actually more

33:54

hyperactive, and they have a hard time sleeping at night

33:56

when they're not napping regularly. And what this may actually

33:59

be talking... Speaking to is

34:01

that when you're actually answering this natural call

34:03

of your biological rhythm Which is a dip

34:05

in the afternoon You might actually be more

34:07

ready to sleep in the evening as well

34:09

because what we also found is that For

34:12

total sleep time at night people were actually

34:14

in the nap when they were napping that

34:17

month. They slept longer and They

34:21

were actually reporting that they were more refreshed when they

34:23

woke up in the morning and That's

34:26

about 20 minutes more sleep and also

34:29

about a 5% feeling of being more

34:31

refreshed So

34:33

now of course the question is how do they do

34:35

at work? And what we found is

34:37

that of course their daytime sleeping is

34:39

decreased what we see here but

34:42

what's really exciting is that They

34:45

actually reported that there was almost a 40% decrease

34:48

in the amount of interference

34:51

that sleeping is gave them at work and

34:53

what that means is that You

34:55

know, it's not necessarily when you're most alert that

34:57

we're really concerned It's more when you're really tired

34:59

at the areas that you're making so we can

35:01

find a 40% decrease on just

35:04

its objective measure That that really

35:06

probably means that there really was an

35:08

effect in enhancing their productivity and

35:11

Just the some some questions on mood and

35:14

quality of interactions people reported they were had a higher

35:17

mood during the month that they Were napping

35:19

the quality of interactions these

35:22

were also improved by 11 and

35:24

10 percent Alertness

35:26

was also increased during the month of

35:29

their napping and also stamina So

35:32

that basically means that that last half of

35:34

a day after you've napped You probably are

35:36

able to go for longer and be more

35:38

awake through that period and that's

35:41

also by 11 percent difference Mental abilities

35:43

of thinking physical health has also improved

35:47

Okay, so just to summarize So

35:49

does napping interfere with nighttime sleep? No on

35:51

the contrary people kept the same bedtime and

35:53

wake time But had more restorative sleep on

35:56

the month that they were napping regularly and

35:59

what people Leslie be at work when they net. Yes,

36:03

nothing also decreased interfere in some sleepiness

36:05

on the daytime activities by almost forty

36:07

percent. And

36:10

lastly, how his performance improve with a

36:12

nap well on average napping me to

36:14

ten percent improvement in this highly stressed

36:16

Manhattan workforce. So.

36:19

I'm just gonna close. Now we just

36:21

the last thoughts. And for people who

36:23

are necessarily who who may feel that

36:25

a napping is not for them, I

36:27

would just say that nothing is definitely

36:30

trainable skill. I'm a lot of the

36:32

reasons why we. Feel. Like we shouldn't

36:34

be. Nothing is because we may be so

36:36

guilty about it or we feel like it's

36:38

is not part of our schedule or that

36:40

were drinking like twenty ounces of coffee the

36:43

middle of the day and what we should

36:45

try to do is just decrease the amount

36:47

of coffee to eat, drink and really just

36:49

try to and you'll find a quiet place

36:51

and every day to give yourself like twenty

36:53

minutes just to lie down and give it

36:55

a try and not necessarily be to marry

36:58

to the idea that you actually have to

37:00

fall asleep but just the you're allowing your

37:02

body to answer this. Kind of call of

37:04

being a little bit in the low energy place.

37:08

Also, get to know your vastly schedule and and the nap

37:10

will definitely help with that. Just to figure out where when

37:12

did I wake up and then what's that? What's the perfect

37:14

time of day that I should actually be napping. And

37:17

of course, now probably. And

37:20

here's the acknowledgements of just people that I've

37:22

worked with in the passing the very in

37:25

in influential and help me very much with

37:27

all the research I've done. And thank you.

37:36

I'm a so hear you saying take a twenty

37:38

minute walk nerve or take a sixty minute nap

37:40

which is a ninety minute Not so which are

37:43

you saying right? Is it really depends on what

37:45

you can do and what you need to

37:47

do. So lot of the times when people

37:49

are working in on the corporate world I

37:51

don't actually think that use as a fairly

37:53

will need to take like a full hour

37:55

nap because you know for a long time

37:57

it's just just getting you through that period

37:59

of low energy. In for twenty minute nap

38:01

would be perfect and ideal and. I

38:04

actually think that that the long run out

38:06

for people who are doing a lot of

38:08

that like students probably have more time but

38:10

also are doing a lot of information processing.

38:12

were doing a lot of memorization who really

38:14

need their brains to be kind of working.

38:16

And it the people who need to work

38:18

until two am. That's another issue. So people

38:20

in the day to day I think twenty

38:22

minutes is perfect for Facebook. Actually, for this

38:24

environment, it might actually better for people to

38:26

be allowed to nap for say an hour

38:28

because I hear that you guys actually have

38:30

them late hours a full every now and

38:32

again. So. That would actually be more helpful.

38:38

Or the month. So ha ha ha

38:40

on I do summons only don't stood

38:42

him up and I just can't Where

38:44

did the middle the day and I'm

38:47

just. My. Brains is going

38:49

as or if you any advice for there's

38:51

you know that even if laying down return

38:53

to the sleep. Or helps.

38:55

Yes, so you know a lot attendant when

38:57

or when I actually bring people into this

38:59

and sleep lab they'll say that they don't

39:01

nap and the Dell claim that even after

39:04

I've done eg. with them and I can

39:06

see that they have enough of this that

39:08

they say I hadn't slept. So there are

39:10

some says asleep the stage one in some

39:12

instances to where you feel that you're actually

39:14

really awake on both said he really has

39:16

passed through some place as of cause is

39:18

shifted consciousness and you are actually in asleep

39:20

face and but you may be able to

39:22

hear things around you and you may feel

39:24

like you're tracking. Your thoughts on but.

39:27

That. The state of relaxation can be

39:29

actually very rejuvenated say I would go

39:31

for it anyway and not ability to

39:33

married to the idea of wanting to

39:35

billie pass out a can actually just

39:37

be as a place as just low

39:39

energy and quiet but very helpful. An

39:44

hour to. Hour. Awash

39:49

with this emphasis on of this is

39:51

like. I'm losing to present a

39:54

my day to nothing. But. Then it

39:56

has said present visit them uses a lot

39:58

of my work. That's right. yes. You

40:00

never really good. Question is yes the economics

40:02

of this doesn't really work in terms of

40:04

in all of the I would I would

40:06

say to your already we're entering into the

40:08

day with a four percent loss right Us

40:10

of Department of Labor's found they are walking

40:12

in there and so when you take a

40:14

nap you're not only taking getting rid of

40:16

the four percent loss for your also adding

40:18

and ten percent Southern Europe fourteen percent increase

40:20

site So yeah there's gonna be you know

40:22

some trade off but if you look at

40:24

all the other ways in which you probably

40:26

would have to redo all the work that

40:28

you're doing while you're really really tired. There's

40:30

also this other level of saving

40:32

time being more efficient getting it

40:34

then the first time as opposed

40:36

to. In was dragging through

40:39

and say like what was I doing yesterday

40:41

I can't believe I wrote that right. So

40:43

I think they're seventy three off in terms

40:45

of is not the most efficient thing You're

40:47

right, but maybe it actually is. In terms

40:49

of that, you're gonna get your job done

40:51

better. I.

40:54

Saw I was wondering. This is based off as

40:56

a full night's sleep and been enough in the

40:58

middle of the day. But you have any thoughts

41:00

on the Riemann sleep schedule? Yeah, very

41:02

very interesting as a.

41:05

Schedule basically is it as a whole with as

41:07

a whole group of people in the world the

41:09

only nap and they're called over man I'm But

41:11

actually it's very, very difficult to do over men

41:13

and what you'll do with called every Man and

41:15

that's that. You actually have a chunk of course

41:18

sleep of four hours in the last night in

41:20

the news. just nap for two or three times

41:22

the middle of a day and and. He

41:25

I, I, I. Think. If if

41:27

it's something that works for you I think

41:29

it's cool, experiment with but a lotta time.

41:31

What you read on the blog of people

41:33

who do it is that the they get

41:36

sick really often. They also very lonely. They

41:38

don't really have friends because nobody wants to

41:40

hang out with somebody who has default suddenly

41:42

fall asleep in the middle of a conversation

41:44

and and it's it's It's a it's a

41:47

hard life to up here to continually manage.

41:49

So I think that if we realising it

41:51

Google was the kind of environment where literally

41:53

people were only napping, it would work. I

41:55

think as. A lot of social constraints to the

41:57

way that we sleep and the way that were awake.

42:00

The waiting period social consensus could

42:02

really help am I over men

42:04

kind of society but with you

42:06

know of us other ways the

42:08

words. Oh

42:10

what a bolo! People with asleep

42:12

of news or wouldn't would nothing

42:14

of increase the risk of heart

42:16

attacks and whatever else. He

42:18

I say that I've since I don't really

42:20

do clinical work but I do. You are

42:22

obviously work of people who do clinical. Had

42:24

sleep apnea is a really hard thing to

42:26

talk about because you don't really know. should

42:28

they be napping more? should they be napping

42:30

less as clearly you know this sudden bouts

42:32

asleep that occur. It's I I I don't

42:34

really know what to say. Leslie Bethany Honestly

42:36

and and it says I think that no

42:38

matter what some people have sleep apnea need

42:40

to get treated, they need to get to

42:42

See Path because it'll improve their lives enormously

42:44

and that all enough that they take will

42:46

be much more rejuvenating naps rather. Than Nasa.

42:48

Make them more tired. Or

42:52

to related questions when his own.

42:55

Know. How do a. Hug. I make

42:58

myself less groggy when I would get

43:00

from enough because I have sleep apnea.

43:02

That I said I find that I'm

43:04

and also deserve such thing as as

43:07

too long have enough like so on.

43:09

If. I were to to sail they were

43:11

night on. And and were trying

43:14

has upon the rest would be. Counterproductive:

43:17

A some point to sleep for like two or three

43:19

hours in the afternoons. Yeah, because of the

43:21

first lesson. A lot of people actually have problems

43:23

with sleep inertia in. that's a really big reason.

43:25

why they don't nap is because it's a really

43:27

groggy when they wake up and so it's it's

43:30

It's a really simple solution. users don't sleep very

43:32

long, you sleep after twenty minutes and no longer

43:34

because what's with sleep inertia is is basically the

43:36

waking up in that heavy, heavy, slowly sleep and

43:38

so your brain is that that.the place and it's

43:40

not able to kind of suddenly be up and

43:43

multitasking and it takes you back half an hour

43:45

to an hour to really get out of there.

43:47

And so the best thing you can do is

43:49

just start. With like ten minutes of t

43:51

meant nap and as really lay down through

43:53

only that a my time and has some

43:55

the you gotta do so that you just

43:57

gotta get up and get other and you'll

43:59

find it exits would he would totally get

44:01

rid of the sleep inertia issue and the

44:03

second question is it's past that one full

44:05

cycle of sleep which is around ninety minutes.

44:07

you really are not gonna get any more

44:10

benefits in terms of napping. Because.

44:12

Of his I couldn't. When you to studies

44:14

show actually that sleeping two hours and three

44:16

hours doesn't really do anything more for you

44:19

that that that one ninety minutes cycle is

44:21

actually all you'll need because you pass through

44:23

all the sleep stages. I don't really recommend

44:25

setting test and ninety minutes and I also

44:27

don't recommend sleeping. Around three hours

44:29

closer to your bed time. So in that through the

44:31

window there that you that actually can interfere with a

44:33

nocturnal sleep The Hawthorne, Be careful that. Ah,

44:38

Have. The seen studies in which

44:40

saw rather than than know numbers

44:42

are continuing to worth the see

44:44

play volleyball set of napping. He.

44:47

Has an excellent study and I

44:49

definitely am looking into meditation as

44:51

one ultra is a break in

44:53

and of course the next thing

44:55

will be doubling to look at

44:57

exercise because and really interesting research

44:59

going on in animal research assuming

45:01

that exercise can really be boosting

45:03

of memory performance and and and.

45:05

Lots of different kinds of performers. Obviously Animal

45:08

research in Rats Very very different than humans.

45:10

I mean, Supposedly fights this is as

45:12

the we have to really test all these issues

45:14

and we haven't and is kind of a new

45:16

field but that's certainly on the list. Him.

45:20

And. I had a question regarding Ah Sue

45:22

I final when I try to fall asleep

45:25

it takes me longer to fall asleep in

45:27

at the same time I had a wake

45:29

up. It also takes the like half an

45:31

hour or an hour and actually wake up

45:33

as all and so for me and my

45:36

for nocturnal play free time, a date yet

45:38

nocturnal sleep. So then I find like for

45:40

now I don't know like. Know.

45:42

That our story don't really work for me is

45:44

like a half an hour. I'm supposed to be

45:47

napping. I'm trying to fall asleep, and I don't

45:49

end up falling asleep some just wondering what the

45:51

benefits of of nothing would. Be for somebody

45:53

who. May. Not be able to

45:56

falsely like right away yeah says for its

45:58

own other than answers And as. The gentleman.

46:00

But but I will say that there are probably

46:02

states of relaxation that you get to that

46:04

are that are very healthy and and just allow

46:07

yourself to take a break and to get to

46:09

play for. you're lying down and you buy your

46:11

eyes covered so in a life can very much

46:13

inhibit sleep the want to cover your eyes

46:15

and especially for you I'd even wear earplugs just

46:18

really korea situation where if you if you're having

46:20

trouble getting to sleep than make it so

46:22

that your sleep health you know that you're with

46:24

the you really healthy in terms of making sure

46:26

that you're getting a all the things that

46:28

you need basically called sleep hygiene. I'm

46:30

and so use the same thing for your nocturnal

46:33

sleep as he would for your daytime sleep. and

46:35

if you need to than wake up and you're

46:37

afraid you're on here your phone lot for run

46:39

by very improve your backer under your pillow or

46:41

something like that just as and and continue to

46:43

keep trying because I think actually your now if

46:46

you can successfully nap you actually might learn to

46:48

successful a sip it might as well. As

46:50

both. Related. Thera. Catches

46:52

out there that are says to wake you up

46:55

and the best sais of your sleep cycle so

46:57

that you. You. Wake Up Muskogee in

46:59

the morning hours of for my are those

47:01

and how much they are with respect to

47:03

that says well yeah I'm so none of

47:05

those of actually ever been really tested and

47:07

a lot of the claims of or mater

47:09

and. Without any scientific merit whatsoever.

47:11

So it's really important and to know that

47:13

there's nothing out there that actually can do

47:15

with those things. Say they can do. What

47:17

they can do is they can track your

47:19

activity levels, but it's not really doing P

47:22

A C Go A Police on the grass.

47:25

Or data collection so it's it's basic

47:27

sacking how active you are in when

47:29

you're and and different didn't You can

47:31

see some things during was collecting. a

47:33

feast for you can only do stages

47:36

asleep so I am very yeah I

47:38

think we should we do. He is

47:40

about. Lot of a claims that are made and

47:42

like the airline magazines were out on the internet.

47:44

A lot of the something that people say is

47:46

is if they give them to me and I

47:49

can test them than I might believe them. but

47:51

until now I'm a little I. I

47:53

think that the a lot of things are made of that they

47:55

can't buy support. I'm

47:57

I'm I'm super to really may be rude

47:59

or. One your diagram showing rem sleep

48:01

happening later of almost seems to say

48:04

that jobs are pro creativity like say

48:06

programming actually people sleeping in as a

48:08

good thing so standard programmers hours might

48:10

be a natural reaction and so related

48:12

question is how do I figure out

48:14

how much sleep I do need. And

48:17

look at. What's interesting about

48:19

the second? Less impressed with it as a

48:21

more easily surprised by how difficult it is

48:24

accessed by. Now I'm Lesley, did you need?

48:26

Because we'll will. If we're all really sleep

48:28

deprived and and we still great then we

48:30

don't really know what it feels like to

48:32

be not sleep deprived and so usually when

48:35

you actually as able to sleep longer. They.

48:37

Feel even better. but they didn't really know before

48:39

that period that they were going to fulfill even

48:42

better. So the very difficult thing to actually figure

48:44

out? how much did you actually need Some The

48:46

average is around eight is what they say. They

48:48

say he's also the fleet Science as eight hours

48:50

as the right amount of time in i used

48:53

to be ten hour as he pleases think ten

48:55

hours second. and and they had very different sleep

48:57

schedules and we have now so. It's

49:01

a it's a hard one to answer.

49:03

What was the first pilot was omitted.

49:06

Say. Oh about about say oh

49:08

yeah, but the ran exactly. Yes, Yeah,

49:10

I think it definitely does. People who

49:12

has found national sleep cycles for themselves

49:14

that really work with their own. Brains.

49:18

You know how their brains work and definitely

49:20

rem sleep. You know that The trouble with.

49:23

The trouble with societies that we have

49:26

school times and work times that really

49:28

go against what some of our you

49:30

know optimal sleep schedules are. And so

49:33

there's a There's especially when kids on

49:35

they have what's called a succeed in

49:37

phase advanced meaning that they actually need

49:39

an that. They're naturally needing to go

49:42

to sleep later and wake up later.

49:44

but. Sit. With but School

49:46

Time said to start earlier and earlier and

49:48

earlier. So easy to sleeping through most of

49:50

their early morning classes. and so this is

49:52

actually it's a real problem is trying to

49:54

figure out how to you know make a

49:57

society that axes is conscious of need and

49:59

so when you're. Programmer Luckily you know you're

50:01

probably a pretty eccentric person in general and

50:03

so you can kind of make your own

50:05

hours and I think that's usually a good

50:07

thing, but it's not You know is that

50:10

that's a special kind of a job and

50:12

I feel like you who probably need rem

50:14

sleep or not getting it. Wrong

50:17

answer. One. Zero

50:19

have about napping. Of.

50:21

Missing a regular know some I was at home

50:24

with or two boys and most days gets it

50:26

gets a nap in about an hour or so.

50:28

but when she doesn't get enough and she's like.

50:31

Get. Irritable and know which is that

50:33

just a sub better. better off for

50:35

it and so some. was gonna backfiring.

50:38

The nothing is right for the phone. Yeah

50:40

w you get used to napping and

50:42

so when you don't get to nap,

50:44

I. He I have the

50:46

same a serious myself that now that a nap

50:49

every day it's if I don't know I said

50:51

it's like ah in I I think it will

50:53

spin and it's an eel. It becomes part of

50:55

your life and the same way that if you

50:57

don't have coffee in the morning. He also cilic

50:59

you know you get a headache so so devil

51:01

and we are creatures of habit and we definitely

51:03

become use do whatever it is the were telling

51:05

ourselves to get used to I'm and sleep during

51:07

the day is one of those things. Know.

51:13

It's the most healthy thing to have a

51:16

routine routines. You know that like our bodies

51:18

if we we we have is circadian rhythm

51:20

that is indigenous that is part of our

51:22

natural. we can do anything about it if

51:24

we don't answer that them were you know

51:26

there's nothing worse than a job at the

51:29

keeps you on a rotating shifts schedule so

51:31

you cannot have a routine so that you

51:33

work some nice Newark. Some days of people

51:35

have get said terrible immune system they are

51:37

much more unhappy the get many more accidents

51:39

so definitely routine is dead and so answering

51:41

that retain you know what you might. Be

51:44

a little bit of a drive to sometimes have to

51:46

do without it. but I think overall at his. Another

51:50

experimental sleep life cycles it's popular on

51:52

the internet is the twenty eight hour

51:54

day. I. Wonder if you have any

51:56

opinions are knowledge about us. I'm. over

51:58

the twenty an hour a day i know that when p People are

52:00

allowed to sleep at

52:03

their own schedule, so that not

52:06

necessarily on schedule, but also outside of

52:09

the realm of light. And they don't know what time

52:11

it is. They're just told to, they're basically in a

52:13

bunker, and they're just told to eat and sleep when

52:15

they want. The day does turn into a 25-hour

52:17

day. But I wasn't aware

52:19

of the 28-hour day. I also know that

52:23

submarine, I think

52:25

it's an 18-hour day, where they,

52:27

I don't know why, but this is a really

52:29

horrible thing that they do. People in submarines, it

52:31

keeps them on an 18-hour day. And

52:34

so it's only like once every few weeks

52:36

that you're actually on your natural rhythm. And

52:38

most of the time, you feel completely out

52:41

of it. So it's a really, I

52:43

don't know about the 28, but it's very funny to

52:45

start mixing with these kind of

52:48

schedules, because you see how much

52:50

creatures have it we actually are. So

52:54

I have no problem falling asleep at night. I mean, I'm out

52:56

like a light around 11 o'clock or so.

52:59

But the problem I do have is night waking. So

53:01

how do you suggest we compensate for that? Do

53:03

we try to make up for those hours early in

53:05

the morning and wake up a little bit later than

53:07

I normally would? Or do I just

53:09

wake up at the same time I normally would and

53:11

take a longer nap in the afternoon? The second, actually,

53:13

yeah. So night

53:16

waking is a really interesting thing, because a lot

53:18

of people, because

53:21

sleep is now kind of moving

53:23

into this idea of we should treat sleep,

53:25

and there's a lot of pharmacology to treat

53:27

sleep. A lot of what

53:29

may be a natural rhythm for somebody actually

53:31

gets medicalized. And I'm not saying that there

53:33

aren't real problems, but I also think that

53:35

when you wake up in the middle of

53:37

the night, get

53:40

up and do something, and then go back to sleep when

53:42

you fall asleep naturally. And then know that if you nap

53:44

in the middle of the day, you're going to be making

53:46

up for it. I mean,

53:48

I don't think that we should just ignore the fact

53:51

that we may be staying up too long in the middle

53:54

of the night. But I do think that there's a really

53:56

interesting book that came out. I

53:59

think it's called What We Do It Now. but I can,

54:01

by Richard Eckhart or something

54:03

like that, that's why I'll get you the information later.

54:06

But he wrote a book, he's a historian, and

54:08

he wrote a book about the night and how

54:10

people throughout history have actually used the night. And

54:13

interestingly enough, people used to have what's called

54:16

first sleep and second sleep. And

54:18

in the middle of the night, they would get up for like an

54:20

hour or two hours and they would

54:22

write about this in diaries, what they did in their middle of

54:24

the night. And they would clean the house and they'd go and

54:26

hang out with the neighbors. And it was a social occasion. And

54:28

then they'd go back to sleep. And then they would definitely nap

54:30

in the middle of the day. So some

54:33

of these things where there's a night wakening, I often

54:35

think, well, maybe that's just you being

54:38

in your natural rhythm. So, and

54:40

then if you know, well, I'm gonna be napping in the

54:42

days I'll make up for it, then it

54:44

also might take the pressure off and the worry off.

54:50

Right over here, sorry. Sometimes on

54:52

like, especially Fridays and Saturday nights, I'm

54:54

up extremely late at night. And then

54:56

I'll find I'll sleep for like 10 hours and

54:59

then like at five o'clock, just crash again. Like, does

55:02

that kind of- Five o'clock in the evening? Yeah,

55:04

like it just seems like on the weekends, I

55:06

absolutely crash and I'm asleep more than I'm awake.

55:08

Is that kind of my body catching

55:10

up or? Yeah, yeah, definitely. So, and that's really

55:12

not the best way to do it. So because,

55:16

so one thing that people, and it's totally difficult

55:19

to do, is that we sleep on the weekends

55:21

and we try to make up for all the

55:23

sleep that we're lacking. But what's happening is when

55:25

you're depriving your sleep self of sleep across a

55:27

long period of time, it's not

55:29

only that you're increasing what's called your sleep debt,

55:31

but you also have increases in insulin levels

55:33

that are not healthy. That you

55:35

also have increases in cortisol levels that are not

55:37

healthy. And so you don't give your body a

55:39

natural rhythm to be active and

55:42

relaxed, active and relaxed, which is very

55:44

restorative. And that is, even

55:47

though you probably can make up a lot

55:49

of the sleep, you're not necessarily doing your

55:52

other parts of your body very good. So

55:54

I always try to get

55:56

people to sleep more on the week and

55:58

then you'll actually have more. kind of regular sleep

56:01

and not change your sleep schedule by that much.

56:03

So there should be like a one to two

56:05

hour window where you really stay

56:08

in that through the whole week. So

56:11

you're saying that you stay up only until two in the morning

56:13

on the weekend? Oh yeah, well then

56:15

you are sleep depriving yourself though then on the weekend

56:17

and so then you need to make up for that

56:19

sleep. So if you can, you know,

56:22

it's hard because then what are you going to do on Saturday

56:24

night? You obviously want to go out, right? But so it's a

56:27

really hard thing to decide. Maybe you

56:29

don't go out that much or maybe

56:31

you go home at, I

56:33

don't, I mean, that's, I can't tell

56:35

you what to do. I find it really hard but the

56:39

sort of sleep doctor in me says

56:42

you shouldn't have a very large window between

56:44

your nighttime sleep during the week and your

56:47

weekend sleep bedtime. So

56:52

these days I'm kind of on a schedule for all

56:54

intents and purposes. I have two jobs. I have a

56:56

job in the evening and so my days kind of

56:58

planned down to the hour and so in order for

57:00

me to try to work in a nap during the

57:02

day, it would mean getting less sleep at night. So

57:04

is there, but would that be more beneficial to me

57:06

and make me more productive in the evening or should

57:08

I really be focusing on getting, you know, seven to

57:10

eight hours at night and giving me a nap? You

57:13

know, I completely agree that it's really hard to find

57:15

time in the middle of the day but I bet

57:17

you if I was with you in the

57:20

middle of your day that I could find a time

57:22

where you could just get little

57:25

naps. Like, who was it?

57:28

Martha Stewart? Yeah. She

57:30

apparently, you know, I mean, this woman's a

57:33

busy lady, right? But she naps in these

57:35

little segments across the whole day. She'll look

57:37

like right in between meetings if she has

57:39

like 15 minutes, she'll just

57:41

say like, don't bother me and she'll take a

57:43

little nap. So what I do sometimes is I'll

57:45

go to my next meeting and if I have

57:47

to drive there or whatever, I'll just arrive like

57:49

10 minutes early and put the seat down and

57:51

just take a little nap in my car just

57:53

to kind of give me that extra edge and

57:55

that extra amount of energy that I need. So

57:57

I think that You're not going to probably find

57:59

it. Who our? But you might find little

58:01

chunks of fifteen minutes. And

58:04

I had a question about you know

58:06

how you said there's an optimal time

58:08

for announced his their optimal time for

58:10

nighttime flee to Like does slipping from

58:12

ten to six vs two to ten

58:14

make any difference on your sleep? Yeah

58:16

definitely. So if you don't get ah

58:18

yes you'll actually will probably have a

58:20

really hard time getting your slow wave

58:22

sleep if you don't get to sleep

58:24

by around eleven or midnight because usa

58:27

lose a lot of arbitrary cause what

58:29

happens is rentals and than and and

58:31

you kind of. And And and you

58:33

the see. You don't. You don't get enough

58:35

of your slow wave sleep is the same thing.

58:37

and if you're waking up around five am, you're

58:39

not getting enough rem sleep. So. And

58:41

that's not to say that there aren't people

58:44

who have different sleep schedules. I mean, there's

58:46

some people who really, literally didn't sleep for

58:48

five hours and they're called short sleepers and

58:50

this. And they do really well with having

58:52

kind of really much less sleep than the

58:54

rest of us. And. But. If you

58:56

are missing out on some of your sleep

58:58

at you give yourself ever see to try

59:01

to sleep a more regular cycle and and

59:03

see whether that is an improvement. I mean

59:05

all of this is all kind of self

59:07

analysis light so if you are questioning maybe

59:09

I shouldn't be sleeping. Gonna

59:11

submit to a and then circuit to see but

59:14

eleven and just see whether you actually feel more

59:16

refreshed. Plastic

59:18

Surgery on articles about as already

59:21

saw it as white audience. As

59:24

one of the ask her question again.

59:27

With the mother something, assume that you're not going.

59:30

We will optimize her day or anything like that.

59:32

Just the basic question of you have an hour

59:34

you can cut out of naptime? Are you an

59:36

hour of naptime? You can trade off for an

59:38

hour of nocturnal sleep. What? He did. I

59:42

waxing up in the day. Was.

59:44

Isn't cousins And. Some

59:50

this seems like any than a lump of

59:52

pick up with some visiting want to something

59:54

like I just don't have. Access

59:57

those to things do with. Yeah.

1:00:00

Yeah, we gather we're not the same person every

1:00:02

single day. You're right. Yeah, and sometimes as do

1:00:05

the weather, some as a has a do

1:00:07

with our energy levels as as do is just

1:00:09

the fact that we're just happy One day we

1:00:11

saw really sluggish the next day. So I think

1:00:13

that you know it's It's hard to say

1:00:15

that all comes down to whether you suck. Well

1:00:18

that my But I think it probably has some.

1:00:21

Kind. Of you know influence and and I

1:00:23

think it as many different things that that

1:00:25

kind of influence whether we've woken up and

1:00:27

we feel like we want to attack the

1:00:29

day of or whether we feel like we're

1:00:31

just gonna go back to bed. But since

1:00:33

is actually when I feel really like sluggish

1:00:35

are just sleep a little bit longer because

1:00:37

it may actually be that I've woken up

1:00:39

in a kind of a dip in my

1:00:41

sleep cycle where I'm actually influence sleep. Saw

1:00:44

try to stay in bed a little bit

1:00:46

longer and then try to catch a lighter

1:00:48

say to sleep like stays to around and

1:00:50

see whether you. Know whether that is

1:00:52

influencing my how I feel about the

1:00:54

day. On. Both sides

1:00:56

you have any recommendations for other. Books.

1:00:59

Upside recently been line on of I'm

1:01:01

Really Disappointed. Or terrorism is

1:01:03

inaccessible now. What

1:01:06

kind? What? What We mean by accessible enough? Or

1:01:08

or to finance and as lot of fun

1:01:10

splurge. Really? turn your papers

1:01:13

or? And. Isn't a fine with says

1:01:15

to tell me. Where do

1:01:17

to same time every night? Yeah, don't you

1:01:19

read before? Better sailors. Is the same old stuff

1:01:21

either Rihards? Yeah. I will say that sleep is

1:01:23

it for the young field in terms of science

1:01:25

and so there isn't. You know there is. It

1:01:29

almost gets a little boring and tedious when you keep seeing

1:01:31

the same list of sleep hygiene tips and stuff like that.

1:01:33

I'm and and I think that would time they'll be more

1:01:35

and more things but I have a great book for you.

1:01:42

As long as. I'm.

1:01:45

I'm an actress about the

1:01:47

different stages asleep and it

1:01:49

sounded like. There's.

1:01:52

A sort of variation from person to

1:01:55

person, whether. Like

1:01:57

how quickly you dance from one city to

1:01:59

another. And. Like the architecture

1:02:01

of your sleep cycle is I'm and some

1:02:04

seem to be. Better. Than others

1:02:06

are like Summer more for sort is if you

1:02:08

can get to your. Ram.

1:02:10

Faster rate, so on.

1:02:13

Is there anything that you can do that

1:02:15

consumes how to influence that? It's kind

1:02:17

of accessing. Same answer is is it is

1:02:19

that there is a list of tennis sleep

1:02:22

hygiene and like some other some of the

1:02:24

top things are that you want to like

1:02:26

something that actually helps people. Not

1:02:28

fleet say well, is sitting with a T

1:02:30

V on or six like with a T

1:02:32

V on and in the same room and

1:02:34

because it's a tiny keeps you up and

1:02:36

keep soon as kind of like half Fleet

1:02:38

say and it's not very. It's not really

1:02:40

restorative. the really: when you're when you're purposely

1:02:42

gonna go take a nap or or go

1:02:44

to sleep, really make that what you're going

1:02:47

to be doing and be kind of. you

1:02:49

know, dedicated to that. Also, if you have,

1:02:51

if you're light sensitive were an eye mask,

1:02:53

If you're sensitive to sound, wear earplugs. Unsettles

1:02:55

are some definite thing that will help you

1:02:57

kind of. Focus. On

1:02:59

getting out of consciousness is and but

1:03:01

then there's also just keeping a real

1:03:04

schedule because as I said, we were

1:03:06

creatures of habit right? So so. Becoming.

1:03:09

Really like. okay now I'm just going is right right?

1:03:11

The second he said you once again after the second

1:03:13

these are you really want to go to sleep. Just

1:03:15

go to sleep and wake up when you feel like

1:03:17

you're ready and and and I think about those are

1:03:20

the basic that I could recommend. Someone

1:03:22

asleep that you need own season on

1:03:24

this. It really means you need mostly

1:03:26

in the winter, many do in the

1:03:29

summer it seems like that. that's true

1:03:31

He i can really think of any

1:03:33

studies I've looked at it but I'm

1:03:35

sure there are some cities that look

1:03:37

game A Oh definitely when you go

1:03:39

to extreme situations like up in the

1:03:42

northern Scandinavian countries from Iceland in particular

1:03:44

that you really find a huge drop

1:03:46

off and sleep in the middle of

1:03:48

the summer I'm and that in there

1:03:50

is awfully know deficit that. Said that

1:03:52

is can common with that So of

1:03:54

so definitely is that there's you know

1:03:57

for some extreme cases it it may

1:03:59

actually be that as a genetic i'm

1:04:01

very isn't that allows people who are

1:04:03

who have for centuries been in that

1:04:05

area to actually be able to do

1:04:07

with Atlas to do with less sleep

1:04:09

omen that you know that up to

1:04:11

that in climates where it is a

1:04:13

more kind of temperate zone and people

1:04:15

are kind of in a more stable

1:04:17

environment they don't have such big swings

1:04:20

but definitely in the in those areas

1:04:22

you definitely see changes to sleep. I

1:04:24

don't really change. Constantly your your your

1:04:26

performance levels. And there

1:04:28

was a be the happiest people. so they've done

1:04:30

something right side of the. Ah,

1:04:34

you said about the television.

1:04:36

Ah, I'm wondering if it's

1:04:38

good or bad to. His

1:04:41

lip hearing news. Yeah,

1:04:44

I don't recommend it at all

1:04:46

or because it's in I I,

1:04:48

but I think that's a personal

1:04:50

preference because I feel that are

1:04:52

you know, if you keep yourself

1:04:55

at some kind of level of

1:04:57

awareness and it's very difficult to

1:04:59

really block. Concert. In a

1:05:01

get into a set of unconsciousness own and

1:05:03

that's the goal really when you're trying to

1:05:05

get to sleep south and. You. Know

1:05:08

it if you always have something as kind

1:05:10

of just just a little bit there is

1:05:12

actually becomes more of. A very

1:05:14

light form of just meditation. almost because you're

1:05:16

still able to kind of here with going

1:05:18

on. so I don't recommend it. But.

1:05:23

I don't recommend. Mint isn't. So.

1:05:25

If you could design. A

1:05:27

regular sleep schedule for office

1:05:29

workers. Or would be. A

1:05:33

default. Yeah, so what the deal is?

1:05:35

it's of the default we're doubling. Be there.

1:05:37

you go to sleep at eleven, you wake

1:05:39

up at like you know, seven and that

1:05:41

you take a right right around one or

1:05:43

two. you take like an hour nap. That.

1:05:46

Would be that that would be the best. He.

1:05:51

And we have these little sleeping pads just outside

1:05:53

here and they're called Metro. Apps are know he's

1:05:55

seen a movie on site. What? What's your opinion

1:05:57

of Those are the A such as well. And.

1:06:02

What? I Just want to see the sale by

1:06:04

the face of the you know, You.

1:06:06

Need a floor? In.

1:06:09

In a in your most primitive form

1:06:11

of napping, right? And then you could

1:06:14

also have your Rolls Royce right to

1:06:16

nap. And so of all the nap

1:06:18

kind of paraphernalia that is obviously the

1:06:21

Rolls Royce kind of napping facility. And

1:06:23

and but he and it's not necessary

1:06:25

for everybody and not necessary. The everybody

1:06:27

has a kind of have a. I'm.

1:06:33

A I'll on the floor. Oh I.

1:06:35

Hope it doesn't. Really for the mouth

1:06:37

of so he would be able to losing weight

1:06:39

would It's if it does fit and it's what

1:06:41

you want and that's great and it was is

1:06:43

amazing and wonderful that google provide some than I

1:06:45

would I would say use them and also. He

1:06:48

doesn't have a like to sleep on their

1:06:51

side or flat and so that is is

1:06:53

all these different ways in which you know

1:06:55

if that works for you, do it. When

1:06:59

you talk about them sleep wide coming

1:07:01

out can slowly and sleep over. Two

1:07:03

different experience was i wake up my

1:07:05

feel real veggie. Is

1:07:07

that related the same thing as. The same

1:07:10

thing as as a different manifestation. Yeah.

1:07:12

Yeah, so in that way I would

1:07:15

say either you know, sleep a little

1:07:17

bit longer or sleep much shorter. You

1:07:19

know you can. Basically, Time

1:07:21

your nap around the slowly sleep so they are

1:07:23

sleeping twenty minutes the making sure the your his

1:07:25

says to or sleep an hour because by an

1:07:28

hour you'll definitely be getting into like fleet. yeah

1:07:38

i mean in general yeah but for me

1:07:40

i like i sleep forty five minutes and

1:07:42

i so great so really depends on the

1:07:45

personal preference and where you are in the

1:07:47

time of the day because if you're sleeping

1:07:49

for sixty minutes in the afternoon you're definitely

1:07:51

going to hit slow wave sleep i'm forty

1:07:53

five minutes me up and you could doubling

1:07:55

a hit slowly sleep and and if you're

1:07:57

sensitive to slowly sleep then you have been

1:07:59

a pilgrim but

1:08:01

if you sleep 45 minutes in the morning, you're less likely

1:08:03

to hit slowly sleep because you don't have that much what's

1:08:05

called sleep pressure. Looks

1:08:10

like I get the honor of the last question. So on

1:08:12

the weekends when I know I'm not gonna be on my regular

1:08:15

sleep cycle, like I'm gonna go out with some friends and I'm

1:08:17

gonna be up until two o'clock in the morning, I do what

1:08:19

we always called in college the disco nap. So

1:08:21

I go home from work and I sleep for

1:08:23

an hour or so and then I get up

1:08:25

and get ready and go out. Do you think

1:08:27

preventative napping is better than trying to catch up

1:08:29

your sleep after you've deprived yourself of sleep? Definitely,

1:08:31

definitely. So

1:08:34

there's three official names. One

1:08:36

is preventative, is

1:08:38

it preventative? Yeah, I think it's preventative napping.

1:08:40

The other one is operational napping. Which

1:08:44

one is the prophylactic napping? That was the one

1:08:46

that I thought was funny. I don't remember, but

1:08:48

anyway. So there's basically

1:08:50

nap before you're gonna be tired, nap

1:08:52

during your work or nap after.

1:08:56

And what studies have shown, which is the best,

1:08:58

is either to nap before or nap in the middle. And the

1:09:01

worst thing you can do is nap after because by that time

1:09:03

you've already probably gotten to a car accident or whatever it is.

1:09:07

That's the long nap, yeah. Well,

1:09:09

thank you very much for joining us today. And if anybody

1:09:11

would like to have their book signed, please stay after and

1:09:13

do so. Thank you very,

1:09:16

very much. Really fun. Thanks

1:09:23

for listening. To discover more

1:09:25

amazing content, you can always

1:09:28

find us online at youtube.com/talks

1:09:30

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