0:00

Hey, you, and welcome.

0:03

My name is Mike. And in this year old potash,

0:06

friends, compatriots, sweethearts, have

0:09

two stories for you. How about

0:11

keeping it keeping it in the family?

0:14

Also, just just like in advanced

0:16

notice, there's like freaking construction going

0:18

on right inside my window, which just makes this

0:20

an awesome time to record a podcast. So

0:22

I do apologize if you hear Anida.

0:25

Now in this old podcast, well, it

0:27

is fun for all the family.

0:31

By fun, I mean murder.

0:34

So Yeah. The first story.

0:36

It's about one family versus one

0:38

person. And they would not take

0:40

no no SIRI. No.

0:43

They wouldn't take no. They wouldn't take a loss.

0:45

For an answer, no SIRI, Bob.

0:47

They even had the shittiest website

0:49

ever to slander their enemy, it

0:51

really gives us great credence to the issues

0:54

that have been foisted upon them. A grandmother's

0:57

impasse possible choice and a father's

0:59

willingness to risk everything in

1:01

order to rescue his three little

1:03

girls. Well, sounds

1:05

intense. But that's what they want you to

1:08

think. In story, Numero

1:10

two o, we have a murder

1:12

within the family and have one

1:14

member was given a

1:16

choice, the choice being

1:18

shape up or a shape

1:19

out. They had to choose

1:21

between mom and dad, which is

1:24

a pretty shitty freaking

1:26

choice to have a kid to make if you

1:28

ask me. Not that

1:30

anybody's asking me. That's just my two cents. Say

1:32

dollars and cents. Because it makes no sense.

1:35

Let me tell you. And if I

1:37

could ask you for anything, my friends

1:39

would be please rate Review,

1:42

follow, subscribe to the podcast. That

1:44

helps out tremendously to

1:46

give it maybe some stars, some five stars if

1:49

I could be cheeky. Thank you so so much.

1:51

And if you do that, I promise. Daddy's

1:54

gonna come and give you a nice little foot massage.

1:56

While he sleep of course, you'll wake up one day

1:58

and your feet will feel oh, so good.

2:01

You're welcome. Now, let's give it

2:03

a go. It's

2:15

that little old states we're heading

2:17

off to We Delaware. Delaware,

2:20

I was Delaware ignorant. ending

2:23

the podcast. The reason we're going to Delaware

2:26

is that's where the Matusiewicz family

2:28

lived. At the Tivity Top of

2:31

Delaware lies Newark City,

2:33

not far from Wilmington. There's

2:35

also, you know, the Newark close by in Jersey,

2:37

but that's a that's a different one. So this

2:39

is Newark, Eric.

2:41

The Imetuz wits were made up of Thomas,

2:44

his wife, Leonor, and their two children.

2:47

David and Amy, they they did have

2:49

a second son after David won

2:51

Michael, but he he tragically

2:53

passed away from complications of leukemia

2:56

in nineteen eighty six. And now,

2:58

Thomas, the daugherty, he was a

3:00

former cup. A crack shot. Apparently.

3:04

But he was forced to resign for only

3:06

four years on the force. Due

3:08

to some kind of policy violation, either

3:11

he was on the Shnekda, he was on the devil's

3:13

edas, or he was just beating up too many hippies,

3:15

But after that, she went to work at the

3:17

postal service. Leonor, she

3:19

worked with the physically disabled. Not

3:23

about them, though, because the central character

3:25

in this story is their son,

3:28

David Matusiewicz, a an optometrist

3:31

don't you know? Well, you do know. See,

3:33

David, he was very close with his parents,

3:35

Thomas and Leonor. And

3:37

when David was thirty one years

3:39

of age, in nineteen ninety eight, he

3:42

finally gathered the courage to introduce

3:44

his folks to his new girl,

3:47

Christine Belford. Now,

3:50

I can guarantee that David would

3:52

have been a hell of a lot more worried about

3:54

what his parents were gonna think than

3:56

what Christine was gonna think. Both

4:00

David and Christine had been married before,

4:02

and they met David's optometry practice

4:04

in in Newark, Delaware. Pristine,

4:06

she was she was the office manager. She

4:09

was seven years younger than David.

4:11

She was twenty four years of age when they

4:13

started a relationship in nineteen ninety eight.

4:16

And she also she had a daughter from her first

4:18

marriage. In two thousand and one,

4:20

David and Christine, they they

4:22

married and together they would they would

4:24

buy a house in Middletown, New Jersey.

4:27

Nice, you know, lovely, big old

4:29

house. Hey. And that's how much for salary,

4:32

Muegueno, they had a pool and all

4:34

that's all those sorts of shenanigans. And

4:37

over the next few years, the

4:39

family of tree. David, Christine,

4:41

and Christine's daughter. Who? By the way, so Christine,

4:43

as I said, she had a daughter from a previous marriage,

4:45

but David adored her,

4:47

she practically became his own daughter.

4:50

Well, those tree would become six.

4:52

As Christine, she would have tree more.

4:55

Girls. So you got David's, you got Christine,

4:58

Ford daughters, Sri, are David's

5:00

biological. However, now Christine

5:02

she had her own she had difficulties. She

5:04

she had a lot of she had a wicked bout

5:06

of postpartum depression. She

5:08

would be treated for that though. Now,

5:12

Things began to go awry, however,

5:14

for the family. Shortly after David

5:16

and Christine had their second daughter

5:18

together, child number 304.

5:21

See, this is where the fun begins

5:24

my friends, Thomas and Leonor

5:26

moved in with him. Yikes.

5:31

When the parents when the parents

5:33

move in, you are fucked. It's always

5:35

a recipe for disaster or nearly

5:38

always. And as I said, you know, David,

5:40

he was very close with his parents.

5:42

He

5:42

was like, come on, y'all. Room enough for

5:44

everybody while Christine has given him

5:46

the the shit eyes, the think,

5:48

guys. Christine,

5:51

you know, obviously, as you can imagine, wasn't

5:54

quite as sure shifts as

5:56

David would have been, especially because,

5:58

you know, at at the sector is only a short

6:00

stay. That turned into month

6:03

after month. After month. Christine,

6:05

you know, she had just given birth. She had

6:07

her own mental health issues. And

6:10

then she had her husband's parents

6:13

telling her, oh, this is how you do stuff,

6:15

and this is what you're doing wrong.

6:17

Just what a new mother needs to

6:19

hear. Yeah. See,

6:22

Thomas and Leonor, the grandparents, the

6:24

reason they had moved in with David and Christine,

6:26

was that they had sold their home and they were

6:28

looking for a new one. And so they they would stay, you

6:31

know, with them, they had nice big house for the time

6:33

being. It ended up being

6:35

a long time being and they

6:37

weren't in any huge mega rush

6:39

to go out and buy their own house. They

6:41

were happy out there, you know? Sure. Sure. Why

6:43

would they be going to live in their own place for?

6:46

But after about ten long

6:48

ass months, Christine, new

6:51

mother, you know, stay at home mother suffering

6:53

from postpartum depression, she she kicked

6:55

them out, essentially, saying, get the

6:57

fuck out. So then Thomas

7:00

Elandor, they bought their own bad

7:02

place, not too far away, so

7:04

they were still always around.

7:08

And it seemed like they had always wanted

7:10

the Miranda. For example, he

7:12

wouldn't let anyone other

7:14

than his parents babysit the

7:16

children. None of the Bellfords,

7:19

Christine's, her own family, Nope.

7:21

Nope. Christine's parents, nope. You're not good enough.

7:23

You can't watch the kids. Just

7:26

mommy and Daddy,

7:27

this this fucking guy. He's

7:29

still stuck in his molotitty.

7:31

By the way, I just got a note here, a

7:33

few people, including Christine's daughter,

7:35

you know, from her previous marriage, they

7:37

would say, wow, Leonor

7:40

and Tommy. They're kind of like, you

7:42

know, having lived with them for quite some time. They're kind

7:44

of like, assholes

7:46

would be the word. They were a nightmare

7:49

to live with. They were they were just head bangers.

7:51

Yeah. They would out, they would

7:53

lie. They took over the entire house. They

7:56

were aggressive arrogant and bossy.

7:58

Thomas, he was a gun enthusiast,

8:00

but he didn't he didn't yield keep

8:03

it to himself as his own little

8:05

hobby. He used it to keep

8:07

you in your place. Got a problem

8:09

with Helenor and I do things. Talk

8:12

to my semiautomatic. I

8:14

guess now it's no surprise why he was

8:16

kicked out of the police. The

8:19

policy violation is you were addicted.

8:21

By the time baby girl number three arrived,

8:24

the marriage was, well,

8:26

it wasn't straight up just

8:28

it wasn't. It was dead, DOE. They

8:30

would divorce in two thousand and six.

8:33

And this, my dear friends,

8:36

is where the whole kick and

8:38

caboodle kicks off. So

8:40

listen up. So during

8:42

the custody hearings, a court ordered

8:44

psychological evaluation. And Christine,

8:47

Christine Belaford, to be, well,

8:50

grant. She wanted the family

8:52

to be together, but, you know, she was a great

8:54

mama. She was no danger to her

8:56

own children. David Matusiewicz,

8:59

on the other hand, though, was suffering from

9:01

on anxiety, stress, and depression

9:04

and was, quote,

9:06

at risk of losing touch

9:08

with reality, probably

9:11

not the best person to be a

9:13

sole caregiver to young children.

9:15

I mean, if he's losing touch reality,

9:17

don't think it's a good idea to have someone

9:19

who thinks a baby is a microwavable

9:22

dinner to be in charge. So

9:25

when that's what the psychological evaluations,

9:28

you know, their thesis was,

9:32

That led to the decision which made

9:34

total complete sense that they

9:36

be granted joint custody. David

9:38

and Christine joined custody of their

9:41

three children with David and

9:43

the mateuswits' during the week and

9:45

with Christine at weekends and weekday

9:47

visits. Now, the muthuitz is

9:49

when this, you know, was the

9:51

was the order they were freaking

9:54

pissed off. Their real pissed off.

9:57

They were shouting and warned. They were they were saying

9:59

Christine. Oh, you're

10:01

gonna regret it. She's about Ep6, joint

10:03

custody, joint Schimmicity. They

10:05

wanted their grandkids offer

10:08

themselves, and for Christine, that

10:10

they got hiked. And

10:13

this is when the Matusiewicz family,

10:15

all four of them, Thomas, Leonor,

10:18

David, and David's sister, Amy, They

10:20

decided on one goal,

10:22

one mission, one objective. They

10:25

were focused, they were dedicated, and

10:27

they were relentless. And their

10:29

goal was to destroy

10:32

Christine Belford forever.

10:35

Christine around this time she would constantly

10:37

feel like someone was burning a hole

10:39

into the back of her into the back of her head.

10:42

She would see shady cars across

10:44

the street. She felt like someone was on her

10:46

ass the entire time. That's

10:49

because there was someone

10:51

on her ass the entire time. Christine,

10:54

she came scared of David and his family who

10:56

would be gone stalking her.

11:01

The Matus witsies would upload videos

11:03

to YouTube. And it it's like they

11:06

well, they actually were stalking her,

11:08

and they were they were slandering her

11:10

to try and get soul custody

11:12

of the

11:12

children. They would try and just, you know,

11:14

follow her Ep6 everywhere hoping she would

11:16

do something that would make her look

11:18

bad. In two thousand

11:20

and seven, David, Hoover

11:23

like He sold his optometry business.

11:26

Now, obviously, Christine, they had met as

11:28

his office manager. She had long stuck since

11:30

CEO being his office manager. He

11:32

then forged Christine's signature

11:35

to get credit from the bank. With

11:38

that credit, David and his mother,

11:40

Leonor, he was such a and mommy's

11:42

boy, this guy, they bought a

11:44

Winnebago. They were gonna go

11:46

for a spin. David, his mama,

11:49

with the tree with the the girls, the

11:51

tree girls. A

11:53

nice little spin to

11:56

Central America. Aspen,

12:00

Christine, was very much unaware

12:02

of. On

12:04

the twenty sixth of August, two thousand

12:06

and seven, they drove by Christine

12:09

saying, hey, you know, we're we're we're taking

12:11

the kids to Disney World. Yay.

12:14

You know, we'll be back in two weeks. And Christine,

12:16

she said, hey, that's that's a okay with me pal.

12:18

You know, it'll be fun for the girls.

12:22

It would be a lot longer than two weeks before

12:24

Christine saw her kids again. A

12:27

couple of days later, while on the road,

12:30

David and Leonor, they came over

12:32

this really friggin' sick decision,

12:35

they told the girls that their mother

12:37

Christine had killed herself. Well,

12:40

we Your mother is dead and she's never

12:42

coming back, so you're stuck with us. Yeah,

12:44

lovely. It took eighteen

12:47

months until they were tracked down

12:49

by federal marshals in a small

12:51

village called Catarina, practically in

12:54

the jungles of Nicaragua. So

12:57

an old bitch owner, shitty son, take three

12:59

small children to the middle of

13:01

a tropical jungle. How and

13:03

why they chose that and what they were planning

13:06

do I give Ep6. They

13:08

were gonna start a little commune

13:10

or something. They were discovered

13:12

in March two thousand and nine. Collins

13:14

themselves the Blanca family. Wow,

13:17

really? Five white Americans have polished

13:19

descent in the middle of the jungle. And

13:22

they were there, you know, in the middle

13:24

of living at of Winnebago for a previous

13:26

year and a

13:27

half, which whoa.

13:30

I'm sure it's smell smelt

13:32

something spectacular. We got

13:34

approached and obviously he was

13:36

very surprised and shell shocked and

13:38

BUT, YOU KNOW, I WOULD ADD THAT EVERYTHING WAS DONE

13:40

VERY PEACEFUL. Reporter: THE TEAM ALSO NABLEN

13:43

LENORE Matusso IT'S IN THE

13:44

TRAILER. THE THREE GIRLS WERE FOUND

13:46

SAFE AND REUNITED WITH THEIR MOTHER. They

13:49

were returned to America, and

13:51

David Alanor were up

13:53

shit creek. The girls, they went

13:55

back to their mother g. And can you imagine

13:57

Christine hasn't seen her girls in eighteen

14:00

months? David, he plead guilty

14:02

to kidnapping and he would spend almost

14:04

three years in prison. Leonor,

14:07

she got eighteen months. Thomas,

14:10

even though he clearly had been a

14:12

part of it and had helped your planet.

14:15

He he always played innocent when he was

14:17

questioned about it. Where are they?

14:20

I don't know. And he

14:22

escaped charge. But I can imagine the

14:24

only reason Thomas didn't go with Leonor

14:26

and his son David was probably because he was an

14:28

old fart and the the nicaraguan

14:30

heat is no good for the old ticker.

14:33

When being sentenced, David said that Christine

14:35

had been sexually abusing the kids,

14:37

hence why they had to run away.

14:40

The judge said, well, yeah,

14:42

right, if that's true, how come you

14:44

never mentioned this before to the police?

14:46

But the record show, I call bullshit.

14:49

And so from prison, well, David,

14:51

he decided to do what, you

14:54

know, we we anybody would do.

14:57

And that was it made it so much worse for

14:59

Christine and the kids and to up

15:01

their game. When Leonor

15:04

got out, David still inside, her

15:06

and her husband Thomas, they upped Ep6

15:09

the up the abuse claims. They were writing.

15:11

They were sending out little letters, making

15:13

videos that you do everybody they could, to

15:15

family services, to reporters,

15:18

to all that trying to stir

15:20

shit, and literally just Christine

15:22

did this and this and this and everybody

15:25

just fucking ignored them because they're insane

15:28

people. Every claim they made, every letter

15:30

was shut down. Rightfully so because they just

15:32

made up everything. They were pure shy

15:34

talkers. So

15:36

guys, listen. Here, tell me this. Riddle me

15:38

this. What would you do? What would

15:40

you do? What we what would you do do

15:43

if this happened to you, you? That

15:46

is the question grandmother's impossible

15:49

choice asks It's a page

15:51

on a website, a website weirdly about

15:53

Joan Bonnet Ramsay, a

15:55

grandmother's impossible choice, and

15:57

a father's willingness to risk everything

15:59

in order to rescue his tree

16:01

a little girls. Wow,

16:04

what a hero? A lot of this

16:06

was written by Leonor in prison.

16:09

The website, it's it's it's there

16:11

on as I said, the the the majority

16:13

of the website is with Joe Benetramzi. The

16:16

reason Laureure's page

16:18

is on that website is because the entire

16:20

website about Germany. Ramsay is run by

16:22

by her sister-in-law. So I guess

16:24

she was like, oh, put it up for you.

16:27

And by the way, her sister-in-law who is

16:29

running the subs of a Joan Benayramzi seems

16:32

like a crazy person, just

16:34

so you know. But let's stay with the mateusu

16:36

with spot for now. And Christine Belford, don't

16:38

have to come go off a deep Ep6 here. So

16:41

in this, frankly, bizarre

16:43

as shit page, Leonor

16:46

lists all the reasons

16:48

why Christine sucks and why

16:50

she's abusing the kids. Let

16:52

me just read out a few that are listed like there's

16:54

about fifty on this page. I'll list

16:56

out some of the main ones. Okay.

16:59

And I quote, Christine Belford

17:02

searched for and found a convicted pedophile

17:04

and kept his rap sheet under her

17:06

mattress. Then she threatened

17:08

to sell David's Tree Beland

17:11

white American girls for fifty

17:13

thousand dollars each. Exclamation

17:15

marks. Christine ignored

17:18

Laura, one of the daughters, about one year

17:20

old, and the child played in a

17:22

storage garage filled with dangerous

17:24

equipment and the chemicals more

17:26

exclamation marks. Christine

17:28

trained Lee, another daughter,

17:30

to eat independently by throwing food

17:33

on a filthy rug and then having Lee

17:35

fight the dog for her food. I mean,

17:37

this is just such insane. This

17:40

is like learning crazy shit ever, but

17:42

this is what she was saying like Christine was

17:44

doing. Laura

17:46

knew all about the g spot and

17:48

how to play the game like the lollipop

17:51

at age five. She has a secret

17:53

with her mommy about what she has to do to

17:55

mommy to make mommy feel good. Laura

17:57

said that if she ever tells, mommy

17:59

will go to jail. Children

18:02

and people with mental retardation put

18:04

on extra layers of clothes to try

18:06

to thwart their rapists' molesters

18:09

Laura started wearing extra layers of clothes

18:11

when visiting mommy. This is

18:13

clearly all from a very sick

18:15

mind. This could be you

18:18

and your grandchildren more exclamation

18:20

marks. What would you

18:22

do? How far would you go protect

18:24

your grandchildren from this manipulative, deceitful,

18:28

unstable woman. Okay. There's literally

18:30

just one, unstable woman here

18:32

and She's the only who wrote this

18:34

shit. Like, it reads like a crazy person's

18:36

diary. No. It like, it's kinda

18:38

funny. And then it's kinda said

18:40

when you read when

18:42

you, you know, realize

18:44

this is literally what she believes.

18:46

Let

18:46

me read you some more. This Frail,

18:49

sixty five year old grandmother, hasn't

18:52

had been released from jail. Her

18:54

name is Leonor, Lee Matusowitz.

18:57

Her son, David Matusiewicz is

18:59

presently being held in a correctional institute

19:02

in Texas. This is a father

19:04

who is simply trying to protect his three

19:06

children from their mother because

19:08

he believes she is more than capable

19:10

of releasing them to a pedophile or

19:12

taking their lives.

19:15

It is fucking cuckoo. But

19:17

this is the kind of shit that

19:19

Christine had to put up with. Like this being

19:21

written a better online. And then

19:23

as you can imagine, Leonor was sending this to every

19:25

single person she possibly could. So

19:28

Christine, she would file suit against the

19:30

Massachusetts. She was seeking monetary

19:33

damages and it was against David, Leonor

19:35

and Thomas. After Christine

19:38

did that, file a civil suit,

19:40

Thomas Adler would send letters

19:42

to her lawyer filled

19:44

with the kind of information on the grandmother's

19:47

Impossible Choice website saying, you know, here doesn't

19:49

You should really know about who you're Ep6.

19:52

You can thank us later. This is who Christine

19:55

really is. Thomas

19:58

and Leonor's own attorney during

20:00

this time, fighting the civil suit,

20:03

he would quit representing

20:05

them, defending them, because Let

20:08

me just double check. Do do do do if I'm

20:10

reading if I'm reading between the lines here.

20:14

Their bad shape, crazy. By

20:16

the time Thomas and Leonor had moved away

20:18

to Texas, they had filed for bankruptcy.

20:21

That was, I guess, that was another reason their attorney

20:23

quit. They never fucking made them. But

20:26

they were not quitting at all. And

20:28

this is another quote from their website. If

20:31

there are any learned, honorable attorneys

20:33

who would be willing to represent this father

20:36

and his three children, pro

20:38

bono, please contact the grandparents,

20:41

Tom Eilih Muthuzwits. He'd

20:44

have to be pro bono and pro insane.

20:48

It's surprising by the way that Thomas and Leonor

20:51

moved so far away to Texas. Maybe

20:53

it was the heat. Maybe she had family

20:55

there. David, he was in prison there.

20:57

Anyway, Christine, she

20:59

would later drop the suit, the damages

21:02

suit. I mean, she may as well. I mean, on

21:04

one hand, you'd be like here, listen, they put you through so

21:06

much hell. Soothe them, but on the other hand,

21:08

they're not gonna pay you. Like, it's gonna

21:10

go nowhere. So her attorney

21:13

he essentially for the attorney for pursuing he

21:15

he came at and he said, hey. Listen. She just

21:17

wants to put all this behind her. Just

21:19

please leave her alone and let

21:21

her move on with her children. Do

21:24

you think that happened? David

21:27

was released from prison in twenty twelve and

21:29

he moved in with his parents in Edcatch.

21:31

Southern Tech us near the border. And

21:34

so then began the child support hearings

21:36

with them traveling back to Delaware.

21:39

One of these was due to take place on the

21:41

eleventh of February twenty thirteen

21:43

in Delaware, at the Family Court

21:46

in Wilmington, the Newcastle County

21:48

Court House. That morning

21:50

at around eight fifteen AM,

21:52

Christine arrived with her friend

21:54

Beth Mofford. Her friend was there

21:56

for Christine just for moral

21:58

support. David was due to

22:01

be arriving with his dad, Thomas.

22:03

Christine and Beth, they walked in

22:05

that morning. They

22:08

went through the glass revolving door

22:10

and then into the lobby, and they didn't

22:12

they didn't see David anywhere. David

22:15

was in the car park, but

22:17

Thomas was waiting for them.

22:20

As Christine and Beth walked

22:22

into the lobby full of people,

22:25

Thomas Poudera handgun, and

22:27

he shot Christine to death.

22:30

Before turning the gun also

22:32

on Beth

22:33

Mollford, murdering her

22:35

also.

22:36

Negative j five. I'm in the courthouse

22:38

and a woman the courthouse. We got shots of fire

22:40

here. Thomas, he then walked out of

22:42

the courthouse and exchanged fire with

22:44

the police outside. He

22:47

was shot twice. He got in a few

22:49

on the cuffs also before turning

22:51

the gun on himself, blowing

22:53

his brains there's. He

22:56

fell face first into a pool of

22:58

his own lud in front of

23:01

the Cortez. You

23:05

said one, and it's probably insane leap

23:08

tragic. Christine murdered her

23:10

friend. You know, also there

23:12

who had nothing to do with anything murdered

23:15

too and and

23:15

Thomas? Well,

23:18

let's not cry over spilt milk.

23:22

What I can tell you is I can confirm a shooting

23:24

that occurred in the lobby of the county courthouse

23:26

this morning at approximately eight o'clock? No

23:29

to it. One lone male

23:31

suspect entered that lobby and opened

23:33

fire. There was an exchange of

23:35

gunfire between the capital police officers

23:37

and this suspect.

23:39

As a result of that gunfire, the

23:41

suspect is dead. In

23:45

the aftermath, the remaining Matusiewicz has

23:47

claimed that they had no idea what what

23:49

he Thomas, what he was going to

23:51

do. David, he was arrested.

23:53

This was for violating his

23:55

probation. The children, they

23:57

were taken into protection. Shortly

24:00

after, a guess guess what? Because the mateusovitzes

24:03

are not done, by the way. Because

24:05

Amy Gonzalez, sister of David,

24:08

she filed four Custody of

24:10

the three girls. She she said,

24:12

oh boy. Oh, boy. Oh, dear. What's

24:14

going on? Custody about? Suits,

24:16

lawsuits between the mateusovitzes and

24:18

and Christine. Well, Leonor and David ran

24:21

away for a year and a half, kid, nothing of the kids.

24:23

I'd I never heard. I I'm just

24:25

a swallow lunch. There's nothing to do with me.

24:29

Give me give me give me give me the kids.

24:31

Give me the kids. This was swiftly

24:33

denied. About a month later,

24:35

Leonor then posted these.

24:39

These are videos on YouTube.

24:43

They're

24:43

kind

24:43

of funny. If you hit the tab,

24:45

a grandmother's impossible choice, you'll

24:48

be able to find a lot of what we

24:50

went through.

24:52

And

24:52

who wrote that report? I did.

24:55

There was a tragedy in Delaware last week.

24:58

People died, people

25:00

were wounded, and those that

25:02

of us that are left are trying to make sense of it

25:04

all. Is there anyone in Delaware now?

25:07

That I and my family can trust besides

25:11

my two friends, Linda and Carl, is

25:14

there? What

25:16

do you think? I didn't and

25:19

don't trust anyone in authority.

25:22

Not psychologists, or psychiatrists.

25:26

My nephew was treated with LSD

25:28

for attention deficit disorder when

25:31

he was very young. He's

25:33

dead. She offhanded and said,

25:35

when I sell Davis three bond white American

25:37

girls, I'm going to get fifty thousand dollars each

25:39

and they'll never be found because of

25:41

my comp up. Connection I'm

25:44

sorry. My connection is to the local

25:46

crime family. And then she said,

25:48

I have to do things to mommy. It's

25:52

a big secret. If if I ever

25:54

tell mommy's gonna be in trouble, I

25:56

don't want my mommy to go to jail. What

26:00

would you think she meant? I

26:03

didn't think it was anything good. No.

26:05

Nothing was planned. David

26:07

collected his papers, sipped his coffee, and

26:10

started to leave. And I said, break a leg.

26:13

Later, we heard about the shooting. I

26:16

was told that David shot his wife,

26:18

another woman, two officers,

26:21

and himself, and was dead. No.

26:26

It was my first thought. David

26:29

believes in god too much And

26:31

he wanted to talk to Christine about

26:33

their

26:33

children. He wouldn't have shot her.

26:37

She was blaming a brain tumor

26:39

on Thomas's actions and that she had

26:41

no idea he was going to do it because

26:44

and I quote, actually, you know what, I won't

26:46

even quote. I'll let her speak for

26:49

herself. Tom

26:51

wasn't behaving normally for the longest

26:54

time. He told

26:56

me he wouldn't bring his guns, but

27:00

Tom's meningioma. It's

27:03

that's a non

27:05

cancerous or non malignant tumor

27:08

in the covering of his brain. Tom

27:12

snapped. Tom didn't plan any of

27:15

this. First

27:17

of all, he

27:19

was planning a Ruben sandwich

27:22

party. We already have the

27:24

fresh corned beef and the sourdough.

27:26

And my husband loves to eat.

27:29

He knew he was not gonna walk out of that

27:31

courthouse, and it looked like his family

27:33

knew too. They also found

27:35

what looked to be a hit list of

27:37

of other people who were involved in the various

27:40

cases over the years.

27:42

Eventually, the authorities built up

27:44

enough of a case against Leonor, David,

27:46

and Amy. And Amy who filmed videos

27:49

and and Amy was always part of the harassment

27:51

and stalking, and they were charged with

27:54

conspiracy, interstate stalking,

27:56

and cyber stalking resulting

27:58

in death. They, the authorities,

28:01

they also learned of another woman named

28:03

Cindy Bender, who was

28:05

essentially a spy for the Matusiewicz.

28:08

She had begun a relationship with

28:11

David and was friends with

28:13

Christine. So so like as you can

28:15

imagine when Christine would private, all

28:17

her social media, so the Matusiewicz wouldn't

28:19

be able to stalk her, Cindy, her

28:21

friend, could still see everything Christine

28:23

didn't know. And so she

28:25

would she would relay conversations she had

28:28

with Christine to the family. She'd be asking,

28:30

okay, Christine, what's up to

28:31

that? You know, what's up to these days? She would then

28:33

promptly tell it to to those bastards. Not

28:36

only that, they also hired a woman named

28:38

Courtney Emerson to spy and Christine and

28:40

the the kids, they had this little like

28:42

guy all out there

28:44

to ruin Christine's life. And

28:47

they finally ended it. The trial

28:49

went ahead in twenty fifteen. The

28:52

Medusaitz has defended themselves the way they

28:54

always did. Christine,

28:56

She's a horrible mother, and they only wanted

28:58

to save the kids. They're the good guys. They're the heroes

29:01

here, really. They were all

29:03

fan guilty, and they all received the

29:05

exact same sentence, life

29:08

without her role, golf

29:10

club. And there you there you have

29:12

it. Quite a bizarre

29:15

plot that went on over it

29:17

it went on for almost a decade. Bad

29:19

shit stuff, to be honest. Three

29:22

months after she was sentenced, by the way, you'll

29:24

be glad to hear, the Norm and Tuzewitz

29:26

died in prison. She was

29:28

actually sentenced on what was essentially

29:31

her deathbed. So I think

29:33

that's some goddamn justice for an old bat.

29:36

David and Amy, they since appealed, of course,

29:39

That didn't look good for them. And the

29:41

three girls, I wish this whole plot

29:43

was was about they were placed

29:45

into into foster

29:46

care, which I mean, goddamn.

29:48

It's a and a happy ending for for everyone

29:51

involved,

29:52

but it's hard to see it ending any other way.

29:55

So so there you have it. Now

30:06

here I have for you another story

30:08

of a bad shit family. Only this one has

30:10

no outsiders. Thankfully,

30:13

this plus, they kept they kept it

30:15

kind of to themselves.

30:17

Maybe unfortunately for some of the members

30:19

anyway.

30:22

And it was about the choice one family member

30:24

was given. Pretty shitty

30:26

choice to be honest. In

30:29

twenty seventeen, upstate New York. There

30:31

was and I guess still is

30:34

the Nairair family. You got your

30:36

Lloyd. You got your Michelle and you got

30:38

your kids. Three of them. Get them. Of

30:41

course, that was in twenty seventeen.

30:43

Not so much today, especially

30:46

when there was a plot from within, the

30:48

family. So Ep6 two

30:50

central and parental figures in

30:53

this old case are Lloyd and Michelle

30:55

Nairada. They had been married for

30:57

for a quarter century by the time

30:59

this story really kicks off, which is in twenty

31:02

seventeen. But before we get there,

31:04

Let's get to what it led to.

31:08

Lloyd and Michelle met in high school in

31:11

upstate New York. Now they were

31:13

they were all over each other. From

31:15

the get go, they're marrying, like

31:17

pretty much right at a high school in nineteen

31:20

ninety one, hunt. They headed off headed

31:22

off together to college. Together,

31:24

they would have three daughters. The

31:26

middle one was named Carrie.

31:28

And Carrie She

31:30

is key to the story, key Carrie.

31:33

Carrie was very close with her

31:35

dad. He would he would drive her

31:37

to ballet classes every Saturday.

31:39

He would do he would do her hair in

31:41

front of all the other mothers, you know, just

31:44

Lloyd and Miguel's. Lloyd,

31:46

he was a little bit eccentric. We'll

31:50

get into just how much in a little bit,

31:52

but he was charismatic and he always

31:54

wanted to be the center of attention.

31:57

I mean no shit. I'm sure he just he did

31:59

all these things just he just was loving all the

32:01

attention from all the other mothers. Now

32:03

Michelle, the missus, She had a master's

32:05

degree in literature, but she she

32:07

chose to be a full time mother to

32:09

her children and she went home school. I'll

32:12

treat her daughters. However, Mielle,

32:14

as the kids grew, she would end up getting

32:16

a job as an English professor, and

32:18

then later at Corning Incorporated.

32:21

A material and technology company.

32:24

Do you know ever ever wonder about the

32:26

latest innovations in glass?

32:30

Me neither, but that's what they do. She

32:32

was also heavily involved in in charity

32:34

work, helping out the homeless, making them

32:36

full with food and super and all that

32:38

sort of stuff. Lloyd, he worked as a design

32:40

engineer. So they

32:43

were a happy little family living in

32:45

Corning, New York. Way

32:47

upstate New York south of the

32:49

Finger Lakes near the Pennsylvania border.

32:52

However, when two thousand and eight hit

32:55

hit. Well, everyone.

32:58

Everyone like a freight train, the nairners

33:01

were no different. As jobs and as

33:03

money, dissipated. Lloyd,

33:05

an engineer, but he applied for for countless

33:08

jobs, and he ended up

33:10

getting one butched his job you know,

33:12

it ended up taking him all the way down to Princeton,

33:14

New Jersey, which from

33:16

Corning, there's a bit of a hike.

33:19

And so, you know, him going down

33:21

there and working down there and staying down there

33:24

being so far apart. Michelle and Lloyd,

33:26

they eventually they eventually drifted

33:28

apart over time and they would

33:30

divorce. The oldest child went

33:33

to live with Lloyd in New Jersey, Carrie

33:35

and the youngest, they stayed with shelf

33:37

in upstate New York. But,

33:39

you know, as I said, Carrie, she was daddy's

33:41

little girl, his favorite. And so

33:43

Carrie and Michelle, they they didn't get along

33:46

so well. She would eventually leave

33:48

home though, and in twenty seventeen, she

33:50

was studying Rochester Institute

33:52

of Technology. It

33:54

would also be in twenty seventeen,

33:57

August the twenty eighth, that a friend

33:59

would arrive to Michelle's house to pick up

34:01

the youngest child. Fourteen years

34:03

old to take her to take her to swim

34:05

practice. And this

34:07

friend found Michelle in

34:09

a bad way. Motion

34:12

work, and I'm concerned. So

34:15

she's just staying on her not moving, cut

34:17

herself dark.

34:18

Michelle was found hanging from a

34:21

banister inside the house. It

34:23

appeared that she'd done it to

34:25

herself. Police, you know,

34:27

searching the house, they found no letter,

34:29

no notes as to why she would have done this.

34:31

She didn't seem depressed though. Then

34:34

again, he don't have to be. And

34:37

there was no sign of the youngest who still

34:39

lived with her. However,

34:42

after Carrie learned of what of what

34:44

tragically happened to her own mother,

34:46

she called the police to let them know the youngest

34:48

the youngest was with her open Rochester.

34:51

It turned out that Carrie had actually been

34:53

in the house the nights before her

34:55

mother was found.

34:57

This

34:57

is Luca Beverly, can I help you?

34:59

Hi. My name is Carrie.

35:01

My friend called me earlier today. Tell

35:04

me what my mom.

35:07

Is this cute? I'm

35:10

sorry. It's okay.

35:17

We are we are looking into a still

35:20

with you now. Yes. He's in my apartment.

35:29

And so she was able to tell she was

35:32

able to tell, you know, what

35:34

what Michelle's last moments were

35:36

like before she before

35:38

she killed herself. And they they weren't what you would

35:40

want them exactly where he would

35:43

want them to be. Carrie and Michelle,

35:45

they'd fought. They often fought, and they just had

35:47

another one. Carrie eventually,

35:49

she stormed out of the place taking

35:52

her the youngest child, you know, her her little

35:54

sister with her. After that, I guess,

35:56

alone in the house Michelle extremely

35:59

upsets. Did did

36:01

the unthinkable. And

36:04

it it became apparent that the fight storming

36:06

it, this kind of stuff was nothing new

36:08

to the nairada boat. See, the divorce

36:11

between between Lloyd and Michelle was

36:15

I would say. Nine number one calls from the

36:17

house, they were they were common enough.

36:20

Over the space of of two years, you're talking

36:22

about a dozen Like, that's

36:24

a lot of I don't think I've ever called nine eleven

36:27

once in my thirty two years of life.

36:29

That's a lot of calls. Lawrie, he could be violent.

36:31

He was a real bastard man, he'd lashing it with

36:33

his fist at times, and he was very controlling.

36:36

But not only physically the

36:38

abuse could be psychological, especially

36:41

to the three girls, you know, when they came

36:43

along. Lloyd would turn into

36:45

into what Michelle's mother would say about

36:47

Lloyd, that he became a cult

36:50

leader in the house. And, honestly,

36:52

he kinda looks like one. He's got a long

36:54

face, sweat long long black, swept

36:56

back hair down to his shoulders. It

36:58

doesn't have very kind face. I don't

37:01

know. Kinda looks like an asshole. This

37:04

made the impression that Michelle would

37:06

would would take her own life though seem

37:09

more explainable, you know, that he was

37:11

physically psychologically, emotionally abusing

37:13

her and she didn't see any way else.

37:16

Lloyd, after hearing the news, he also

37:18

rushed to be with his daughters. Now he

37:20

was actually in California when her body

37:22

was discovered for a job interview. And

37:25

he said he wasn't surprised that this happened.

37:27

That this happened, you know. It seemed like it

37:29

would eventually happen. But he was the

37:31

one causing it. So you think if

37:33

you're not surprised, this has happened. You

37:35

might blame yourself. You're kind of a fucking dick. But,

37:38

okay. The medical

37:40

examiner's report stated that the manner of

37:42

her death it was consistent with

37:44

suicide. I mean,

37:46

that's and that's that's the end of that chapter. You know,

37:48

a tragic story. But,

37:51

Shenay, if

37:53

you don't count the rest of the story. I

38:01

mean her friends thought something was off

38:03

here. She didn't leave a note. She

38:06

loved her kids on issues going to end

38:08

at all. She wouldn't do it where they could

38:10

finder knowing that would be extremely traumatic.

38:13

And also hanging, not

38:15

a common way for women to go.

38:17

They'll either use knives or pills. Hanging

38:20

is more of a male thing. The police

38:22

were still looking into it, to be sure, they

38:24

needed a little more info. And as

38:26

well, you know, hearing this, they were like, Let's

38:29

double check here everything is is hunky

38:31

dory. Lloyd, he was he

38:33

was in New York still living in New York

38:35

at's time sorting stuff out. Obviously, he was

38:37

dead spouse. Expose. So and

38:39

he would speak to the police. He told the police

38:41

that while the divorce had been done and dusted

38:43

for five years by this stage, there

38:46

were still issues, custody issues,

38:48

and there were twenty twenty twenty

38:51

six separate sets of filings. Lloyd,

38:53

he was trying to get out of child support for

38:55

the youngest daughter, Dick,

38:57

and they were fighting over who would get

39:00

the fourteen year old. The

39:02

lead investigator, like Michelle's fan

39:04

friends, he also had a good feeling

39:06

about this about what really what

39:09

really happened to Michelle. He noticed some

39:11

inconsistencies. For example,

39:14

scratch marks. And there

39:16

were photos that made the investigator think, Nail,

39:18

here, listen, lots. Hang on a second. Something's

39:20

not right here. Michelle's bed

39:23

was pushed out of place and there were masks

39:25

on the wall that looked a

39:27

little something like blood. A

39:30

struggle had occurred in the home.

39:33

And so the lead detective began to

39:35

to theorize that this. I

39:37

feel

39:37

like I'm in a play or something because we got a stage

39:39

scene over here, someone had killed

39:42

her. Now there were no signs,

39:44

no signs at all of forced entry, nothing

39:46

was stolen, and so it must

39:48

have been someone she knew. So someone

39:51

who might not be happy with her. The

39:53

person Michelle's friends were telling the police

39:55

to go to from the

39:57

get go. It was believed

39:59

that Michelle had died sometime very

40:02

early on Sunday the twenty seventh

40:04

of August, so the day before

40:06

she was found. Probably one

40:09

amish on that Sunday. So

40:12

where was Lloyd at the time then? The

40:14

person who may have motive to kill her?

40:16

Well, the son day before, he was

40:19

only down the road and Rochester would

40:21

carry helping his favorite daughter move

40:23

into her new digs at the institution. Of

40:26

technology. Now after that, he

40:28

said he crashed at a motel in Rochester

40:31

and then drove back on down to New

40:33

Jersey the next morning. Now police

40:35

they did double check his alibi about where

40:37

he would have been when Michelle died

40:40

or was killed. They checked

40:42

his alibi. And his phone, it

40:44

did never leave the motel in Rochester,

40:46

which is ninety minutes from Corning. So okay.

40:49

Well, his phone didn't leave so so

40:51

maybe. Now remember,

40:54

Carrie had told the police she was,

40:56

most likely, the last person to

40:58

see her mother alive. After she arrived

41:00

that night they had a fight, nudge nudge wink

41:02

wink, and then she stormed out of the gaffe.

41:04

It's believed Michelle passed or was killed

41:07

very shortly after.

41:09

So so while she had a fight and she has

41:11

storms out in a big hooft and then what

41:14

Michelle has turned in the house in a very shifty

41:16

way, that seems bo boohoo

41:18

boohoo And her phone also,

41:21

the Ep6 location said that she had been in

41:23

the house longer than she said

41:25

she had been. So she's lying.

41:28

The youngest also told the police

41:30

that now while she hadn't seen

41:33

anything, she had been sleeping downstairs in

41:35

the house. And she did

41:37

hear screams. She

41:39

even said it sounded like was

41:42

attacking her mother, but before she knew

41:44

what was going on, Kairi rushed

41:46

in and dragged her head of

41:48

the house to Rochester. So

41:52

was Kairi gone there, killed

41:54

her mother, and then taken

41:56

her her sister out of the house. You know

41:58

after They fought for years and years

42:00

and that she finally lost a plot when

42:02

bananas. Home? Her

42:04

mom? Well,

42:07

maybe maybe yes. But also

42:09

maybe probably not because Carrie was

42:11

pretty small. Her mother was a lot bigger,

42:14

so it's unlikely she would have overpowered

42:16

the forty six year old and then getting her

42:18

in a hanging position, it would take a bit

42:20

of strength to do that. So

42:23

who could have helped her? Well, probably

42:25

the guy who was already helping her move in, write

42:27

her dad, he certainly could have overpowered

42:30

her. But his cell

42:32

phone records showed he didn't leave the

42:34

hotel. His cell phone said he was nineteen

42:36

minutes away the entire time. Which

42:39

is correct. His cell phone

42:41

was nineteen minutes away the entire

42:43

time. But CCTV from

42:46

the motel showed that Lloyd

42:48

wasn't which his cell phone.

42:50

In fact, it showed that at about ten

42:53

Ep6, both Lloyd and Carrie

42:55

led left his motel in Rochester together

42:58

in his car. CCTV

43:00

would not show him again until

43:02

the following morning when he returned.

43:05

To the motel. So

43:08

the police's next step was to wire top the

43:10

dot on the daughter who seemed

43:13

to be in some sorta cahoots. Had

43:16

Carrie Anne Lloyd gone to to the

43:18

house in Corning, New York,

43:20

you know, the youngest daughter,

43:22

she never saw Lloyd, maybe Lloyd snuck

43:24

in another way and killed Michelle

43:26

while Carrie distracted the youngest daughter

43:29

by taking her

43:29

away. It's hard to say.

43:32

But while tapping them, it worked.

43:35

Hey. Can I have

43:37

the phone with us or whatever?

43:40

Appointing police

43:41

department. He called. He's like,

43:42

oh, you

43:43

know,

43:43

I just, like, see what people face to face.

43:45

Wow. You know what? I'd

43:47

like you to not do that if you can avoid

43:50

it. So I'm sorry. I got I

43:52

got a counseling appointment. Back

43:54

in New Jersey tonight. I got

43:56

to get to my counseling appointments.

43:59

So this has been really hard on it.

44:02

Yeah. Could

44:05

you cry? Cry.

44:09

Cry. That's I I have to go.

44:13

God, it would be nice, and and it was just over.

44:16

Now I was getting three.

44:18

Well, that's really all I got to suggest

44:21

right now. After

44:24

listening in on both of them for four

44:26

months, they decided the police they decided

44:28

to act and interviewed both Carrie and

44:30

Lloyd separately.

44:31

Separately, you know, before they got a chance

44:33

to to get their story straight. Hey. Yo.

44:36

Do you mind if we speak to you? Just gotta

44:38

follow-up on a few small things? You

44:40

know? Just just one more thing. By

44:43

this stage, the police felt confident that

44:45

Lloyd had been the organizer of

44:47

this staged suicide, and

44:49

that Carrie had had helped her

44:52

dad killed her mom because she

44:54

was a loving daughter in

44:56

opposite world. Carrie,

45:00

as you can imagine, she wasn't as kept together

45:02

as Lloyd, and she told the police

45:04

he was, was with her that

45:06

night. Now, so

45:08

what happened? What really really happened

45:10

was this? And it

45:12

shows you just why a

45:17

trying to think of the right words. A giant

45:19

piece of shit, Lloyd really

45:21

was. And again, it kinda comes back to

45:24

what Michelle's mother was saying that he was

45:26

a cult leader who had complete control

45:28

over his daughters. So Lloyd,

45:31

he was in the shit. Money troubles,

45:33

alimony, child custody bottles,

45:36

empty wallet syndrome for

45:38

Lloyd. So what Lloyd

45:40

if you can believe this. What Lloyd

45:42

did was he went to Carrie, his

45:44

own daughter, and he told her

45:46

he was going to kill himself because

45:49

of all these troubles he had. Listen,

45:52

Carrie. I'm at the woods end here. There's no way yet

45:54

for me. The trains come in and not tied to the line.

45:56

It turns for me. Don't cry for me because I'm already

45:58

dead. Save yourself. Or

46:02

Carrie, listen, just putting this out there,

46:05

spitballed. You know yourself? This

46:07

is just off of the dome.

46:11

I could kill myself or we

46:13

could kill your mother and most of my

46:15

troubles would disappear. And

46:17

is that for a suffered gold. He

46:21

gave Carrie the choice. I

46:23

kill myself or we kill your mother.

46:27

Carrie chose Lloyd. Lloyd

46:29

had complete control over his children. He would

46:32

snap his fingers and they would align up.

46:34

If they disobeyed, he would get them down

46:36

on their knees with their hands behind their

46:38

head, like execution style position.

46:40

He was able to convince his daughters what

46:43

a horrible mother Michelle was.

46:45

He was a master manipulator, especially to

46:47

carry his favorite. His his favorite daughter

46:49

who he used to take to ballet

46:52

and do her hair. Carrie

46:54

was there that night just to distract the

46:56

youngest child and get her out of the

46:58

house, so he could do

47:00

What he had gone there to do? I wanna

47:02

ask you and Gary

47:04

had something to do with your back. No.

47:09

I just don't think Carrie has an income

47:13

to kill another person. Can

47:15

you think of something where there was things

47:17

get out of hand? She gets

47:20

into fight. It's a self defense

47:22

thing. I mean, can you see that happening?

47:26

Carrie. It's hard to imagine.

47:29

But can I picture it? Sure.

47:32

Well, we appreciate you sitting down with us.

47:35

Interrupt in your day and everything like

47:37

so. Well, my goal is

47:39

now. After

47:41

Lloyd's interview that day with the police, they

47:43

they tailed him after he left work.

47:46

He drove to a nearby five story

47:48

parking lot, went to the deputy

47:50

top and sat down on

47:52

the ledge. It seems he

47:54

he knew the police were closing in,

47:57

and they were not gonna take him

47:59

alive. I mean, though they only

48:01

knew this because they were tailing

48:02

him. They hadn't been telling him they wouldn't have

48:04

seen him gone up

48:05

there. But then they began to talk with

48:07

him, you know, trying to trying to calm him down,

48:09

talk him literally off a ledge. Now,

48:12

this went down for ninety minutes.

48:14

Him threatening to throw himself off.

48:16

The police trying to talk him down until

48:20

boom. A cup football

48:22

tackled the shit out of him and placed

48:24

him under arrest. It was straight at a wrestling.

48:26

Again, I always say this you can find the

48:28

video on YouTube. It's it's it's pretty

48:30

funny. Lloyd and Carrie were

48:32

then both arrested for murder. They

48:35

both plead not guilty. However,

48:38

removed, you know, that she was removed

48:40

in cyber custody away from her father's

48:43

influence, Carrie changed, and she took

48:45

a plea deal, and she would testify against

48:47

her father.

48:51

At what point did she get her to approach you

48:53

with this plan? It

48:56

was him and I, who your home,

48:59

he was saying, like, that

49:01

he was gonna kill himself, like,

49:03

he brought up that he was that

49:05

there was this other option kind

49:07

of thing up where

49:09

he

49:10

would

49:12

he wanted to kill my mom. He

49:16

dragged her around the

49:18

corner, and he tied the rope

49:20

to the the one

49:22

prong with the vanister and

49:24

lifted her up and put her

49:26

onto her on this side. That's

49:31

okay.

49:33

She was then able to plead guilty to the

49:35

lesser charge of manslaughter. And

49:38

after his DNA was found well

49:41

just about everywhere, and the house

49:43

aloitte kind of looking, well,

49:45

this does not look good for me. He had a change

49:47

of heart, and he would plead guilty to

49:49

first degree murder, fully

49:52

confessing. On

49:54

December fourth, twenty eighteen, Lloyd

49:56

Nairiter was sentenced to life without the possibility

49:59

of parole for killing Michelle.

50:01

Days later, Carrie was sentenced

50:03

to one to three years.

50:06

She was released from prison on parole

50:08

on January sixteenth twenty

50:10

twenty. And there

50:12

you have it. A very twisted twisting

50:15

story of a man so obsessed with

50:17

his own ego and having complete

50:19

control of his

50:21

soul. By the way, let me just

50:24

go back there. He was he had such a big

50:26

ego. He was so loyal with so

50:28

opazoners that the police

50:30

learned The password to his

50:32

computer was all my

50:35

girls love me.

50:37

And I guess I mean, he was right

50:39

because he was able to convince his daughter

50:41

to help kill the mother. Bad

50:44

shit stuff. Bad shit. The and

50:46

mean, I I would honestly say Carrie was a victim

50:49

of this too at the end of the day.

50:51

But Shanae.

50:53

Thank you so much for listening to

50:55

this old podcast. The next episode

50:58

will be out in a couple of days. Two

51:00

new Vatch chapter podcasts out every

51:02

week. So you'll hear from

51:04

me if you want it real soon. Also,

51:07

if you guys wouldn't mind you following subscribing,

51:09

leaving some some ratings,

51:12

some reviews, please do

51:14

nice ones. It would be incredibly helpful

51:16

to me and the podcast as we grow.

51:18

But if you're looking for some videos, you

51:21

can find them on that chapter on

51:23

YouTube where it's me talking to you

51:25

with all the videos and the pictures and

51:27

all that sort of stuff. So

51:30

until the next one, please look after

51:32

each other. Look after yourself. Mike

51:36

out.