0:00

Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. All

0:02

right, we are recording. Just check my

0:04

things. Oh, there we go. You all

0:06

right? Yeah, all set. Couldn't find

0:09

my notes. Winging it. All right.

0:12

All right, shall we begin? May as well, you know, suppose

0:14

we've let the folks at home dilly-dally

0:16

along with, hey you and welcome. My name is

0:18

Mike and welcome, I said

0:20

it again. I always do that. I'm like, hey you

0:22

and welcome is my catchphrase. Yeah, yeah. But

0:24

then I'm always like, oh, but also welcome. Yeah,

0:27

welcome, welcome. Yeah, welcome back to another

0:30

episode of the That Chapter podcast. I'm

0:32

joined as you probably guessed by my

0:34

frequent collaborator, Mr. Keith. Oh,

0:36

hi, hi. Dirty Keith, Big K, Special K,

0:38

whatever you wanna call him. He answers to them

0:40

all. I do, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, he's not

0:43

a picky man. He's sitting across from me. He's got

0:45

his glasses on, his long hair flowing. He's got the

0:47

twos showing. He's got his Misfits t-shirt on. What kind

0:49

of bands do you like? You know, folks at home

0:51

are curious. What kind of bands? Well, with the Misfits,

0:53

I like them. I think I

0:56

mentioned it before in the podcast. Definitely still like

0:58

all of my favorite bands probably Billy Talent. Billy

1:00

Talent. Mr. Billy Talent himself. Yeah, it's just one

1:02

guy. Yeah, yeah, low Billy Talent. It kinda goes

1:04

to what we were saying in the last episode

1:06

where I'm just going back to listening to all

1:08

the, like bands, my teenage years.

1:11

I've been listening to, I've been following Billy Talent since

1:13

14, 15, they

1:16

were one of my first gigs, but.

1:18

Very good, interesting. Yeah, going back to

1:20

your youth, revisiting your youth. Yeah, yeah,

1:22

trying to feel young again, mentally. Yeah,

1:25

while you aged your crap at length.

1:27

Yeah. All

1:29

right, folks, well here, listen, welcome back to

1:32

part two of the Beltway Snipers, the DC

1:34

Snipers, the two dickheads I think

1:36

I call them. That's what we're calling them. That's

1:38

what we're calling them. Oh, before we get into it, Keith, last

1:40

time on last episode of the podcast, you told

1:42

a very, dare I say,

1:44

frightening story. I peed myself. I

1:47

don't know if you noticed it, but I noticed it. I

1:49

don't wanna say that, but. Thankfully you didn't. So

1:52

your wife heard a mysterious person

1:55

with your voice calling for her. But

1:57

it was not you. No, it was someone else. The

2:00

ghost somebody called my wife and

2:02

she answered and they replied back come here

2:04

So she went out to investigate she told

2:06

me calling came up. It was not me

2:09

So it in the house something in the house

2:11

and call her so are you guys

2:14

like getting refreeked out here or like? I'm

2:17

loving it. Yeah the content. Yeah, I'm

2:19

a god But from the

2:21

start I've been saying like I'm there's some weird

2:23

things happening to go. Shut up. Yeah, it's grand

2:25

Like but now she's I think she's having three

2:27

points now. Yeah, cuz she's eating the thing with

2:29

the door That was weird. She's like can't explain

2:31

that and I would this thing where something's calling

2:33

her She's like I still can't

2:35

explain that don't I think she's she's

2:38

her. She's a believer as well She's she

2:40

was a day Nisqally to your Fox molar

2:42

and now she too is becoming it's two

2:44

Fox molars All

2:48

right, this is weird wacky stuff, you know,

2:50

I've never experienced the ghost or Google my

2:52

entire life I'm pretty jealous like I haven't

2:54

seen the ghost. I love to see ghosts.

2:56

That'd be great I never even experienced anything

2:58

unexplained not so I can remember anyway. Yeah.

3:01

Yeah, yeah Yeah, I've had a couple of

3:03

unexplained stuff now happen house switch. Yeah, maybe

3:05

when you come over man And we're doing

3:07

a deals part of in the open the

3:09

Arctic. Yes in February probably late February We'll

3:11

be recording a live episode. Well, not live

3:13

episode like a video episode I mean we

3:15

could do it like that like the Hasselaer.

3:18

No What

3:20

it takes yeah, yeah, we do need one

3:22

of those old editors I

3:27

don't want to get cancelled people do listen to this

3:29

after all So yeah,

3:31

but hey listen potty meth

3:33

keys over here and never say anything bad. Oh, yeah, all

3:35

right So yeah,

3:37

let's get into today's today's topic the DC

3:39

snipers part two in part one We talked

3:42

about Lee Malvo and John Muhammad not

3:44

related. But I mean, they're essentially

3:46

a father-son relationship John

3:49

was brainwashing poorly. I mean you won't

3:51

be saying poorly for long What do

3:53

you know and the pair of them

3:55

then long story short traveled around America

3:57

from Washington to Georgia to Louisiana to

3:59

New Jersey Was he just chewing people?

4:02

Almost completely at random. Most of them was random.

4:04

They robbed a few of them, but very few

4:06

of the murders were financially motivated. Most

4:09

of them were just popping up shots. And

4:11

at this point in the story, still, the police

4:13

haven't kind of put together that all those incidents

4:15

are related yet. Yeah, because they've been happening

4:17

just all across the country. There's no pattern

4:19

to it. It wasn't in any particular geographic area.

4:22

It was everywhere. Yeah, so it was these random

4:24

shootings that happened. And I guess because it's different

4:26

states and stuff. Mm-hmm. Different jurisdictions and the rich

4:28

sharing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they didn't

4:30

relieve much evidence behind. Most of the shots were

4:32

from long range, so it wasn't, you know, very

4:35

few witnesses. I think only one of the people

4:37

was able to give an accurate description, just one

4:39

semi-accurate description. Yeah, yeah. I felt like the people

4:41

that they were shooting as well were like... Did

4:43

you just interrupt me? Oh, I'm sorry. Continue.

4:46

I'll allow it this time. Don't do it

4:48

again. I

4:52

wasn't even good about the other day. Okay. I

4:55

was just going to say, even the people around them, there's

4:57

no rhyme or reason. Well, Keith, I hope you learned your

4:59

lesson. This is what happens when you interrupt me. All

5:03

right, well, here, listen, in part two, which is you're

5:05

listening to it, all the

5:07

attacks are geographically linked. And

5:09

this is when the shit hits the fan, my

5:12

friends. The absolute insanity

5:14

that was October 2002 began

5:16

in Montgomery County, Maryland, when on the second

5:18

of that month, which would be October 2nd,

5:20

2002, at around 5.20 p.m., someone

5:25

wink, wink, took a pot

5:27

shot at a Michael's craft store in

5:30

Aspen Hill, a small suburban town. Luckily,

5:32

no one was hit that time, but

5:35

the same can't be said for another

5:37

shooting just an hour later. The

5:40

second shooting took place just a nine minute

5:42

drive away in Wheaton, when 55-year-old James

5:45

D. Martin was shot as

5:47

he walked past a shopper's food

5:49

warehouse, another completely random victim in the

5:52

wrong place at the worst possible

5:54

time. James was a

5:56

program analyst at the National Oceanic

5:58

and Atmospheric Administration, basically. Agree A

6:00

Government scientists. He. Was at

6:03

the supermarket just buying groceries for a

6:05

search. A died in the parking lot

6:07

after being shot by Muhammad and Malvo.

6:09

at this time the to shootings so close

6:11

we should or in time and space some

6:14

police officials they did their to suspect something

6:16

was up but they just couldn't say for

6:18

sure didn't do like maybe to related but

6:20

we're not sure am But I also think

6:23

that it's worth noting that when. The.

6:25

Series of sniper attacks began. the machination

6:27

was very much on edge yes people

6:29

there were so grappling from the my

6:31

them the tax which happened only year

6:33

before so when people start has been

6:35

killed a random from an unknown sniper

6:37

in the nation's capital people from with

6:39

the Gamma pilar thinking that this was

6:41

a new case of terrorism. I'm

6:43

sure the fact that is also received

6:45

Twenty Four Seven news coverage for three

6:47

weeks didn't alleviate any panic either. Yeah,

6:49

drone like. Only one week after my

6:52

lavender with Anthrax, Tuck under was also

6:54

public concerns that said I'm saying has

6:56

weapons of mass destruction include bio weapon

6:58

So it's completely understandable people were on

7:00

the lookout for a not a terrorist

7:02

attack. Intentions are high. Yeah, undies, sniper

7:04

attacks began right? Absolutely. The.

7:06

Next day on October third, two thousand

7:09

and two that was the bloodiest a

7:11

of spree with five people be added

7:13

to be rapidly growing list of victims.

7:16

First. Was thirty nine year old

7:18

James L. Sunny be Canon Junior less

7:20

than seven miles from the previous day's

7:22

shooting of James See Merton. Buchanan.

7:25

Jr was a business law graduate of

7:27

the University of Maryland and as soon

7:29

have a retired Montgomery County Police officer.

7:32

He was extremely active in his volunteering at

7:34

the local Boys and Girls club where he

7:36

loved teaching Be Answers the Garden. All.

7:39

I knew and had to say about him was have big his

7:41

heart was and how kind he could be. He. Ran

7:43

a lawn care business and was mowing the

7:45

lawn of a customer's car dealership near

7:47

Rockville, Maryland when he was shot dead by

7:50

Muhammad and Malvo. Fifty. four

7:52

year old prem kumar while a car was

7:54

pumping gas into his taxi at a gas

7:56

station in aspen hill six miles from where

7:58

be canada was shot and not far

8:00

from where a gunshot had been fired at a Michael's

8:02

craft store a day earlier. It

8:04

was his 25th wedding anniversary, and he'd been rushing to

8:07

try and finish his shift early in order to get

8:09

home and enjoy the day, but of course he'd never

8:11

make it back. Eight

8:13

miles away in Silver Springs,

8:15

34-year-old nanny and housekeeper Sarah

8:17

Ramos was next. She

8:19

was shot as she sat on a bench

8:21

reading outside a post office not

8:23

far from a quiet retirement community. She

8:26

left behind her husband and her seven-year-old son. At

8:29

this point the police say started receiving reports as

8:31

well from witnesses who said that they'd seen a

8:33

white panel of trucks in the area of the

8:35

shooting. So the police were on high level of

8:37

a list. After when you say

8:39

like, some white panel of trucks. Yeah, it's when

8:42

you say, oh, there's a white truck. You start

8:44

seeing white trucks everywhere. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. I

8:46

mean, it's crazy. Like, this is how many victims

8:48

in just one morning. Here's random... Right. Right.

8:50

Right. Right. The

8:53

last victim of the morning, but not

8:55

the day, was a 25-year-old Idaho native

8:57

named Lori Ann Lewis Rivera. Just

8:59

like Prem Wallachar, Lori was shot at a

9:01

gas station while vacuuming her car, 20

9:04

minutes away from where Sarah Ramos was shot, and

9:06

around 15 minutes from the gas station where Prem

9:08

was killed. Another innocent and

9:10

completely random victim, leaving a small

9:13

daughter and devastated husband behind. Later

9:16

in the evening, the final victim

9:18

of the day, retired carpenter, 72-year-old

9:20

Haitian immigrant Paschal Charlotte. He

9:22

was shot and killed while he was walking

9:24

along the intersection of Georgia Avenue Northwest and

9:27

Columbia Road Northwest in the nation's capital. He

9:30

was walking to the bus station when he

9:32

was chosen at random. He was

9:34

married with five children and had immigrated to the US

9:36

from Haiti more than 30 years earlier. It

9:39

was pretty obvious to the police at this point that

9:41

the shooting and the two from yesterday, they

9:44

were all linked. They'd also start receiving new reports about

9:46

what the killer had been driving, which contradicted

9:48

the report about the white panel truck

9:51

they received earlier in the day. Witnesses

9:53

now said they'd seen a dark older

9:55

model Ford or Chevrolet Caprice. Unfortunately, this

9:57

new description of the truck was was

10:00

ignored by the police and they continued looking

10:02

for a white panel truck. Yeah,

10:04

I mean I just mentioned the pure confusion, they just didn't

10:06

know what to look for. Yeah, that's a good point. You

10:08

know, it could literally be anything. That's it, yeah. Less

10:10

than 24 hours later, on October 4th

10:12

2002, and almost 55 miles

10:15

away from the final shooting, on October

10:17

3rd, an unidentified 43-year-old

10:19

woman was shot outside a mall

10:22

in Fredericksburg, Virginia. Though

10:24

she was apparently in critical condition, she

10:26

ultimately survived her injuries and was later

10:28

released from hospital. There seemed to

10:30

be no barrier to being a victim

10:33

of the Beltway Snipers, with the assassins

10:35

willing to cross every line imaginable. Gender,

10:37

location, none, none of it mattered. All

10:40

of their victims were pretty much chosen at random. The

10:43

news started to spread here as well, that

10:45

there was an active spree killer on the

10:47

loose, so the Chief of Police, Montgomery County,

10:49

Charles Moose, he held a press conference and

10:51

gave a statement which informed parents

10:53

that schools were on a code blue alert,

10:56

which kept children indoors, but he also

10:58

said the schools were safe. Horrifically

11:00

though, what happens next nearly seems to

11:03

be a direct response to

11:05

the statement from the snipers, as a way to say,

11:07

no one's safe. Yeah, yeah, you're all

11:09

gonna get it. It was on

11:11

October 7th 2002, that

11:13

the gunmen crossed another line when

11:15

they shot 13-year-old Aaron Brown, just

11:18

after 8am, as his

11:20

aunt was in the process of dropping him

11:22

off in the parking lot of Benjamin Pasker

11:24

Middle School in Bowie, Maryland. His

11:26

aunt, who was a hero, rushed Brown

11:28

straight to the nearest emergency room, where

11:31

he was airlifted to another hospital and

11:33

underwent emergency surgery to remove part of

11:35

his spleen and repair damage to his

11:38

internal organs. In total,

11:40

he was hospitalised for several weeks, with

11:42

severe injuries, but in the end, with

11:44

youth on his side, he made a

11:46

full recovery. Brown went on

11:48

to testify against Muhammad during his October 2003 trial.

11:52

Not far from where Iran was

11:54

shot, police made another discovery. A

11:57

death tarot card. On

12:00

the front of it was scrawled, Call me

12:02

God, and on the reverse

12:04

was a message to the police reading,

12:06

For your Mr Police, code, Call me

12:09

God, do not release to

12:11

the press. This was

12:13

a huge turning point in the investigation for

12:15

the police. It was a message directly from

12:17

the sniper suggesting that they wanted to contact

12:19

them in the future. So it

12:21

was incredibly important to the police that this information

12:24

was not shared with the press. Once

12:26

everyone knew the code, Call me God, its value

12:28

as a communication tool would be completely ruined. And

12:31

the police did an amazing job at keeping

12:34

this information secret. For about a day.

12:38

The information with the card was leaked to

12:40

the press the very next day and it

12:42

was reported on multiple TV stations and Washington

12:44

Post newspaper. It was pretty clear also that

12:46

the leak came from inside by someone on

12:48

the task force. But the Chief

12:50

of Police, Charles Moose, he was furious about

12:53

his leak and at another press conference he

12:55

tore into the media for sharing this information

12:57

with the public. He got a real passive

12:59

aggressive with it as well. He

13:01

was like, look if anyone from the media wants to solve

13:03

this case, just let me know and we will turn the

13:05

case over to you. We have lots of other police work to do so.

13:10

This was a pretty tactical response to be fair. It

13:13

was clear the sniper was watching the news after

13:15

he took what Chief Moose said at the last

13:17

press conference about school children being safe. It was

13:19

nearly like a challenge. So by

13:21

having it out with the media like this, he

13:23

was making it pretty clear he did not want

13:26

this leak to happen and he still wants to

13:28

open up Atlantic communication, have some sort of dialogue

13:30

with the killer. So pretty smart move on Chief

13:32

Moose's part. Yeah, the Moose doing good.

13:35

The next two victims were split across the 9th

13:37

and 10th of October 2002 and both took place

13:41

at Mohammed and Malbo's favourite stomping

13:43

ground, the gas station. It's

13:46

no understatement at all to say that people

13:48

were genuinely scared shitless to do just a

13:50

perfectly normal thing like pump gas. I

14:00

need to come make pump gas for you. Do you know the guys with

14:02

the rep raised? They're like I've no

14:04

idea you're talking about bread braids. I'll show you photo No,

14:09

I never seen them before in my life the

14:11

Guardian Angels, that's what I thought it's like a

14:13

like a biker gang No, it's like

14:15

it's like a it's like an organization, but

14:17

they're like non-computational organization Oh, they don't carry

14:19

weapons or anything. So what do you do

14:21

discovering helping people? Yeah. All right. Yeah, never

14:23

okay Hey, listen, I learned something new which

14:25

means we all learned something new today folks

14:31

I 53 year old Vietnam veteran on

14:34

Purple Heart award winner Dean Harold Myers

14:36

was killed at a Seneca service station

14:38

in Prince William County, Virginia After

14:41

being left permanently disabled due to enemy

14:43

action in the war Myers graduated from

14:45

Penn State with a degree in civil

14:47

engineering in Philly

14:51

businessman and community activist fifty three year old

14:53

Kenneth. Hey bridges was shot dead 36 hours

14:55

later at 930 a.m 60

14:58

miles away at a Spotsylvania County gas station

15:01

on the 10th of October 2002 Despite

15:04

a uniformed state trooper being less than 50

15:06

yards away and hearing the gunshot and responding

15:09

quickly Little can be done

15:11

for Kenneth bridges at first They thought

15:13

that the shots were coming from rooftops But

15:16

as they checked out the bullet angles It

15:18

turned out that they were fired from the ground level

15:20

making them consider the idea that this sniper might have

15:23

been shooting from a vehicle And this also

15:25

led them to think that there might have been a pair

15:27

of shooters I just pointed still only taught her was one

15:29

shooter So they thought there might

15:31

be in a pair and instead of just one

15:33

long gunman one person doing the shooting and another

15:35

I think As a getaway driver, right law enforcement.

15:37

They did develop a profile of the sniper, but

15:40

they didn't have much confidence in it So they

15:42

never released it to the public But initially

15:44

they thought it might have been a man and

15:46

a woman with the man being The dominant taking

15:48

the shots and the woman acting as getaway driver.

15:50

Honestly, they were completely stumped And they had no

15:52

idea who they were dealing with this point directly

15:54

They were so desperate that you brought in a

15:56

psychic who the investigation. I love when I

15:58

bring in psychics a psych Oh, I'm really scraping

16:01

the bottom of our hearing there folks. Apparently

16:03

they bring them in a lot. Yeah. The

16:05

psychic detective that was brought in was called

16:07

Pam Coronado. And she has quite the resume.

16:09

She has consulted as a psychic detective to

16:12

large and small police departments, state and federal,

16:14

international, and private agencies. She

16:17

did get a couple of things correct in the case.

16:19

She sensed that there was two males. One was older

16:21

and kind of like a father figure. And

16:24

she also sensed that they were trying to be as

16:26

random as possible to throw off the police. I'll

16:28

be honest, I think a lot of the

16:30

psychic stuff is like horseshit. And there's like

16:33

so many charlatans out there. But I listened

16:35

to an interview with Pam. She seems lovely.

16:38

And quite genuine. I want to

16:40

help people. So I still don't believe in

16:42

it. However, even if there is like what

16:44

Washi's saying does helps detectives look at it

16:46

from a different angle in order to solve

16:48

it. Like I guess that helps. So

16:50

go to Pam. She could get like a pretty

16:52

more reputable career or maybe be like a criminal

16:54

profiler or something. She probably has like the skills

16:56

of like or is naturally just good at developing

16:59

psychological. I mean, probably most of these psychics are

17:01

actually just naturally good at psychological profiling people. And

17:03

maybe they just. It's true the cards. Yeah, you

17:05

know. You're probably just good at psychology. You're picking

17:07

up on little things and you're kind of piecing

17:09

together. Yeah, it's not the cards. It's like you're

17:11

just, maybe she should have just gotten a job

17:14

as a criminal profiler. And it's like, okay, then

17:16

you could actually probably say the same things. A

17:18

lot of it's bullshit. But you

17:20

know, at least it's reputable. Have a bit more

17:22

weight to it. Exactly, exactly. And the police wouldn't

17:24

look so fricking stupid for involving psychics. Which is

17:26

weird because they do come up a lot. They

17:28

do. And that was from the interview

17:30

that I heard of Pam. She was saying that

17:32

they really do work a lot with these psychics.

17:34

It's not something that they put out publicly because.

17:37

For good reason. For good reason. One, they don't

17:40

want it like, it sounds so silly. But also

17:42

they don't want to be inundated with calls, you

17:44

know, I'm a psychic too. Ooh, I feel it.

17:46

Like Pam, she didn't insert herself into the investigation.

17:49

She was invited in. Wow. And

17:51

so they do, they invite a lot of these psychics in to help me

17:53

out. Where? Oh, that's weird. Yeah, well,

17:55

hey, listen. There could be an

17:57

episode there with psychic detectives. Psychic detectives. That sounds like

17:59

a bad. TV show. We can do

18:01

our own show, Psychic Detectives. For

18:06

the folks at home, I'm doing the Professor X

18:08

motion. My

18:11

fingers get in my head. For

18:14

the record, I'm doing the Professor X motion. Alright.

18:18

47-year-old Linda Franklin, an FBI intelligence

18:20

operations specialist, was barely shot inside

18:23

a Home Depot in Fairfax County

18:25

on October 14th, 2002. She

18:28

was shot by a police officer, and her husband, William, were

18:31

loading up their car in the parking lot. William

18:33

stood close enough to his wife when she

18:35

was shot that he literally felt her blood

18:37

hit him in the face before she collapsed

18:39

to the ground. Malvo

18:42

would later be overheard describing the

18:44

reason he shot Linda Franklin as

18:46

being because, quote, she

18:48

was being lazy, just standing there. This

18:51

is actually just an interesting area with a

18:53

finger. There's a lot of points to that

18:55

folks. At least he actually received a really

18:57

promising tip during this shooting from a man

18:59

named Matthew M. Dowdy. So Dowdy

19:01

said that he got a really good look

19:03

at the shooter and gave a very detailed

19:06

description of a light-skinned, dark-haired,

19:08

mustachioed man driving a cream-colored

19:10

van with a burnt-out taillight.

19:13

He also said that the gun he was using was an AK-74 with a silencer.

19:17

However, two days after the shooting, Dowdy's story

19:19

started to unravel when a Fairfax detective watched

19:21

the tapes from Home Depot's security cameras and

19:23

saw Dowdy inside the store at the time

19:25

of the shooting. So it was all complete

19:27

horseshit. He made up the whole thing to

19:30

just get us 15 minutes of fame. And

19:32

for this stupid stunt, by sending the police on a

19:34

wild goose chase, he got six months in jail and

19:36

a thousand dollar fine. Good enough for you. Yeah,

19:39

yeah, that's well deserved for being a piece of shit,

19:41

Sherry. I mean, this has been going on for like

19:44

a long time at this point. Random people being shot,

19:46

everybody terrified. Just like, hey, listen, folks, I got a

19:48

real fucking good look at it. It's just pulling it

19:50

out of your arse. He completely threw a spanner into

19:52

work of an investigation. And he threw them off for

19:55

like two days. It was mad. But

19:57

the police, after that, they were really desperate

19:59

for it. leads. But

20:01

their prayers were answered. On October 15th,

20:03

the killers, they called the Rockville Police

20:05

Department in Rockville, Maryland, and the killers gave

20:08

the code, call me God, and explained

20:10

that they were the ones killing people.

20:13

And what did the dispatcher do? She said that

20:15

they'd reached the wrong department and they needed to

20:17

ring the hotline instead. So they hung up. That's

20:20

not my job. That is not my job.

20:23

That is the epitome of not my job,

20:25

not my problem. In reality,

20:27

it was your job and it was

20:29

your problem. Oh my God, that is

20:31

amazing. Unbelievable. Oh,

20:35

that's gas. All right.

20:37

Well, five days would pass with no

20:39

further casualties, but the fear of being

20:41

a victim was still in everyone's

20:44

minds. It didn't take long

20:46

before that fear became another innocent person's

20:48

reality. This brief respite

20:50

ended on October 19th,

20:53

2002, when 37 year old

20:55

Jeffrey Hopper was shot and wounded

20:57

as he was walking out of

20:59

the Ponderosa restaurant in Ashton, Virginia.

21:02

Investigators found shell casings at the

21:04

scene and a note nailed to

21:06

a tree nearby accusing police of

21:08

being inept and demanding $10 million

21:11

or there would be more

21:13

killings. The final victim fell on

21:15

October 22nd, 2002. That was

21:18

35 year old bus driver Conrad

21:20

E. Johnson and he was shot dead in

21:22

Aspen Hill. Police discovered a

21:24

second threatening letter nearby again demanding money

21:27

to stop the shootings. Conrad

21:29

had been standing on the steps of his bus when

21:31

he was hit. The killer is the

21:33

note they left. First, I was riddled with

21:36

spelling errors. But the note

21:38

said for you, Mr. Police, call me God,

21:40

do not release to the press. You did

21:42

not respond to the message. You departed from

21:44

what you were told to say and you

21:46

depart from the time. You're incompetence

21:48

has cost you yet another life. You

21:50

have until 9am to deliver the money and

21:53

8am to deliver the response. We

21:55

have caught the sniper like a duck in the noose. So

21:57

let us know you have our demands. thinking

22:00

what the hell are you talking about with the duck and the noose? Yeah

22:02

I've never heard that phrase before in my life. And it is. So

22:04

researchers they believe he's referring to a

22:07

Cherokee folktale known as the rabbit, the

22:09

otter and duck hunting. The folktale

22:11

is about a balsa rabbit who was challenged by

22:13

an otter to capture a duck. So the rabbit

22:15

manages to slip a noose around the neck of

22:17

the duck which then takes off with

22:20

the rabbit hanging on for dear life. So the

22:22

duck flies higher and higher and finally the rabbit

22:24

loses grip and it falls into a sycamore tree

22:26

where it's trapped and soon reduced eating

22:28

its own fur. So if that's the story the

22:30

caller was talking about it's basically just

22:32

making fun of the police chasing them.

22:34

Okay. Casting them as the clueless rabbit.

22:37

Okay right right. Uh okay. Going with

22:39

folktales here. He's a cultured man. Alright.

22:42

It was a very ill-advised phone call from

22:44

17 year old Malvo

22:47

himself that set the dominoes

22:49

falling behind the murderous pair.

22:51

He said he and Mohammed

22:53

were responsible for an earlier

22:55

shooting in Montgomery, Alabama before

22:57

the DC shooting. A

22:59

fingerprint was recovered from the scene of

23:02

that shooting but there hadn't been any

23:04

matches in Alabama's system. But

23:06

it did match a shooting in DC and

23:08

entering it into the system it brought up

23:11

a previous arrest of Lee Malvo.

23:13

Now with a name to check it against

23:15

they could finally tie it. Next

23:18

came Mohammed who it was actually a

23:20

lot more straightforward. It was a good

23:22

old phone call from an army pal

23:24

of Mohammed's from Tacoma that led to

23:26

his identification. Of course they knew

23:28

him as John Allen Williams but putting two and

23:30

two together it didn't take long once they had

23:32

Williams name. Investigators asked the informant

23:34

if they knew of Mohammed being friends

23:36

with someone named Lee Boyd Malvo describing

23:38

Malvo. The other friend didn't recognize the

23:40

name he did say that the description

23:43

rang a bell. The informant said it

23:45

sounded very much like a young guy Mohammed

23:47

used to tag around with but they all

23:49

knew him by his nickname Sniper. A

23:51

photograph of Malvo later and the investigators had

23:54

a positive idea of both suspects and

23:56

a firm documented connection between the two

23:58

prior to the shooting. It

24:01

didn't go long before investigators identified the

24:03

1990 blue Chevy Caprice that

24:05

had become the duo's makeshift snipers,

24:08

nests and mobile home. The

24:10

license plate was released to the press and

24:13

public, and an APB was put out for

24:15

the Chevy with the license plate number NDA21Z.

24:18

It was then

24:20

only a matter of time before the pair were

24:22

on handcuffs and the surviving victims could breathe a

24:25

sigh of relief and sleep soundly knowing their

24:27

assailants weren't coming back to finish them off,

24:29

and the families of the dead could begin

24:31

healing knowing that justice was coming. The

24:34

pair were actually arrested while sleeping

24:36

in the car. Mohammed and Malvel

24:39

were taken into custody on the 24th of October 2002. A

24:43

search of the Chevy later and the pair

24:45

were banged to rights with Paul LaRuffa's Sony

24:47

Veo! Good ol' Sony Veo

24:49

laptop being found in the backseat of the

24:52

Chevy along with multiple guns used in the

24:54

shootings and plenty of ammunition. There

24:56

was a hole cut in the back of the Chevy, just

24:59

below the opening of the trunk, big enough for

25:01

a rifle barrel to be held up and the

25:03

victims sighted in so one person would, I guess,

25:05

sit in the driver's seat and another person would

25:07

lie down in the back of the car with

25:09

a gun aimed out the back of the

25:11

trunk and they'd shoot from the rear. One

25:14

of the more innocuous seeming discoveries was

25:16

the owner's manual of the Chevy, which police

25:18

later discovered had an imprint of one of

25:20

the notes left behind at the scene of

25:22

one of the shootings. Malvel

25:24

had used the manual to rest on it

25:26

while he wrote, inadvertently leaving the impression of

25:28

a note that tied the men to the

25:31

scene and that they had written the note.

25:33

It was a bit risky releasing the suspect

25:35

names and their car license plate number to

25:38

the press public. The killers could

25:40

have easily heard this on the news and then

25:42

ditched the car and got on the wind, but

25:44

the gamble obviously did pay off. I

25:47

think it was all down to timing because they

25:49

held the news press conference at 11.50 pm

25:52

and it only took about an hour before they got

25:55

a call regarding the car meeting the description and

25:57

when the SWAT team showed up, as I said, Mohammed

25:59

and Oh, they were fast asleep in the car.

26:01

Yeah, and they were completely taking complete unaware They'd no

26:04

idea there was an APBA for them. Yeah I mean,

26:06

I think just because so many people were being shot

26:08

and it was so random They were just like it's

26:10

worth the risk. We have to get these people as

26:12

quickly as possible. Yeah, it's like we need to do

26:14

something Yeah, yeah. Yeah Mohammed stood

26:16

trial in October 2003

26:19

for the shooting of Dean Harold Myers at a

26:21

gas station on October 9th 2002

26:24

near Manassas, Virginia The trial

26:26

was moved from Prince William County to Virginia

26:28

Beach just under 200 miles away Though

26:31

the trial was for that specific shooting and

26:33

there was plenty more prosecutors

26:35

included evidence from all 16 of the

26:37

shootings as they Really

26:39

wanted to execute him the

26:42

jury heard from several survivors as well

26:44

as William Franklin whose wife Linda Was

26:46

the FBI analyst who was killed in

26:48

a Home Depot parking lot? Jurors

26:51

were left in shock after Williams 911

26:53

call was played and a photograph of

26:55

Linda was shown to them circuit court

26:57

judge Leroy F. Millett jr. Had to

26:59

give a warning to the courtroom before

27:01

the pictures were shown She'd

27:03

been hit in the face and entire side

27:05

of her face had essentially been blown off

27:08

William a former Marine managed to keep

27:10

his cool as he recounted what happened

27:12

that day in distressing detail in

27:15

the end John Mohammed was convicted

27:17

and was awaiting sentencing to find out

27:19

if he'd be executed Which

27:22

folks no prize for guessing how

27:24

that went four months after being

27:26

convicted for Dean Harold Myers murder

27:28

on March 9th Mohammed

27:31

was sentenced to death on

27:34

May 6th 2006

27:36

it was made public that Mohammed had

27:38

apparently asked his legal counsel to cease

27:41

all Appeals related to his conviction and

27:43

the death sentence in his

27:46

words to quote So

27:48

he can murder this innocent black man end

27:50

quote which is like such a victim and

27:52

holy. Yeah, exactly Yeah, amazing how

27:55

much crazy one person can carry on

27:57

with them the sentence was

27:59

carried out November 10th 2009

28:02

by lethal injection. Now

28:04

a death sentence was always likely in this case

28:06

with some of the crimes being committed in Virginia,

28:08

Virginia's second place behind Texas when it comes to

28:11

the old, you know, uh, well

28:13

the old old death, death, death

28:15

execution people thingy. And

28:18

for those interested, his last meal, John Mam's last

28:20

meal, was chicken with red sauce and cake. Fairness.

28:23

I think if I was on death row my

28:25

last meal would be a bottomless brunch. Oh yeah,

28:27

that's good. My, you know, spend the rest of

28:29

my days sipping my Moses. That's good. That's

28:32

good. My last meal would be a key.

28:34

I want to eat the key to myself.

28:38

I want to eat the cell and the front door.

28:40

Yeah. So

28:43

I can swallow the key and let myself out.

28:45

But I think you need a waste. What?

28:48

If you swallow the key, you need a waste. I want

28:50

to have the key and laxes. Okay,

28:53

there we go. Yeah. Well, that would be for

28:55

us. Figure it all out. All right.

28:57

No, I want to eat a gun so I can kill everybody

28:59

before they kill me. That's it. He

29:02

also received six life sentences from a Maryland

29:04

jury for the six counts of murder. I

29:06

mean, he's like, he did get life sentences,

29:08

but his life wasn't too long. These

29:11

shootings were considered an act of terrorism.

29:13

Hence the qualification for the death penalty,

29:15

despite Virginia's trigger man law, which

29:17

says Muhammad must have been the one to have actually

29:19

pulled the trigger in the case. But

29:21

this time only Malvo's prints were found

29:23

on the rifle, though Muhammad's DNA was

29:26

found. So regardless, there were

29:28

terrorist acts. He could just have easily have been the

29:30

shooter for many of these cases. Who knows? It

29:32

was in December 18th, 2003, that

29:35

Malvo was convicted of two charges and he

29:37

was later convicted of a lot more murders.

29:40

He was sentenced to multiple life

29:42

sentences without parole. He's

29:44

currently serving four life sentences in

29:46

Red Onion State Prison in Southwest

29:48

Virginia. Malvo's case has

29:50

actually been back in the news as

29:52

recently as 2017. Some of these sentences

29:55

were overturned by the Supreme Court when

29:57

they ruled against life sentences for juveniles.

30:00

As a result, Malvo faced resentencing

30:02

for several murder convictions in Maryland.

30:05

The state attorney for Montgomery County has said

30:07

there is obviously no rush to resentence Malvo,

30:09

given he is locked up in Virginia. Had

30:12

he not been 17, and a minor at the

30:14

time of the heinous crimes, he likely would have

30:16

been given a one-way ticket straight to the hot

30:18

place, along with his friend

30:21

and stepfather, kind of. John

30:23

Mohammed. There's a couple different

30:25

motives that we're trying around for why

30:27

they did this. Yeah, when Malvo and

30:29

Mohammed Wendigop busted the media, called their

30:31

motives unclear, which is spot on. Yeah,

30:33

it gives them a note. But people,

30:35

they speculated from everything, from

30:38

ties to Al-Qaeda to a scheme in which they

30:40

would squeeze a few million bucks out of the

30:42

US government, which is then apparently used for some

30:44

grander plan that involved heading up to Canada,

30:46

recruiting orphan boys along the way, teaching them to

30:49

use weapons, and then send them out to commit

30:51

shootings across the country. Wow. So this

30:53

is definitely one of the more sensationalized terms. That sounds

30:55

actually more accurate, though. From what they did, it's

30:57

like, that doesn't sound far-fetched at all. Like, maybe

30:59

it was on the table. You never know. Yeah.

31:02

It just seems like they were so insane.

31:04

Yeah, yeah. From all this. One foot apart.

31:06

Yeah, one foot apart. Yeah. I think the

31:08

most likely cause is that John Mohammed's ex-wife,

31:10

Mildred, was the ultimate target. Mildred,

31:13

she believes that the attacks were designed to

31:15

confuse police, so that when he finally came

31:17

for her, they would assume that she

31:19

was just another random victim, chosen by the

31:21

sniper. So I think it could be

31:23

as simple as that. Mohammed, he was already a very violent

31:26

man, and not all there in the head. And

31:28

when his wife and kids left him, he just snapped.

31:30

I guess the truth is that we'll never really know

31:32

the real reason. Malvo, he was interviewed 10 years after

31:34

the incident, and he was still unable to give a

31:37

clear explanation of why they did what they did. But

31:40

I'm saying that it might have been that with

31:42

the wife, but then also, I'm not sure. It

31:44

looks like they were close to getting away with it.

31:46

Yeah. And then they kept calling the police. Yeah, it's

31:48

like, it's that whole thing. I mean, probably just arrogance,

31:50

you know, they thought they could do whatever they wanted,

31:53

but also, maybe they wanted it to be caused. I

31:55

don't know, it's also like, because they've traveled around America

31:57

for so long, just shooting around the people, but then

31:59

they just somehow... stuck in like the DC area

32:01

and just like if they had just kept going around

32:04

traveling who knows if they ever would have been caught

32:06

you know why did they Specifically stick to Washington DC.

32:08

Yeah, cuz his wife lived back in Washington didn't she?

32:10

Yeah, she was in Washington Yeah, that's why like she

32:12

reckons like she was she was the ultimate target for

32:15

it Yeah, so you think why didn't they just go

32:17

back to Seattle and then start murdering people who knows

32:19

who knows I mean all in all They killed 17

32:22

people wounded 10 others in a 10 month Shooting

32:26

spree. Yeah. Well, there you go. So

32:28

that is the story of the DC snipers

32:31

messed up man Yeah, it's after to

32:33

be folks truly truly after the be

32:36

but yeah Just a story of

32:38

two fucking insane psychopaths who well once that

32:40

now so hey But yeah,

32:43

the other person just seemed like they were

32:45

brainwashed on that to limit six months Yeah,

32:47

and Lee Lee Boyd Malvo still in prison

32:49

to this day. He's never gonna know no.

32:51

No, thankfully, which is good Alright,

32:54

alright, actually I'm just reading here that on

32:56

August 30th 2022 his he was denied parole

32:58

by Virginia's parole board Good that the system

33:01

works. Yeah, exactly It works for it works

33:03

for some all right Thank you so much

33:05

for listening to this part two of the

33:07

DC snipers folks me and Keith. We appreciate

33:10

it a lot He's giving me a wink

33:12

and he tells me to wink to you

33:14

specifically you listening this All

33:18

right, please

33:22

be sure to check out new episodes of the that Shepherd

33:24

podcast every single Monday, manana

33:27

Next week we are talking about why should

33:29

I know we're gonna talk about next week.

33:31

Probably a serial killer We have one locks

33:34

unloaded radio. Yeah, or maybe something else Which

33:39

we're not more which is Hopkins

33:43

Frederick I'm actually wearing

33:45

a Matthew Hopkins a t-shirt right now. They got me

33:47

for my birthday. I actually love this t-shirt It's really

33:49

comfortable and it looks awesome. It is great. Actually not

33:51

I think my boy You just it's not

33:53

even me that Matthew Hopkins voice. Yeah All

34:00

right here folks as always means a lot

34:02

to me and I mean thought to Keith

34:04

I know does yeah, so Keith final final

34:07

thought of the day Wow me If

34:11

you're a psychic detective just apply yourself you

34:13

can be more you can be yeah, I

34:16

Co-signed to the fullest degree my man. Yes

34:18

exactly get a real job All

34:25

right, thanks guys talk to you soon You