0:00

All right, we are recording. Oh, we're recording?

0:02

OK. Yeah, yeah. Hey, you

0:04

and welcome. My name is

0:06

Mike, and I'll have to say this, I

0:08

hope because it's back. We're back with

0:10

the That Chapter podcast. And if to the fans, to the folks

0:12

at home, it seems

0:15

like, hey, listen, they were just talking to us last

0:17

week, maybe even sooner when they listened to the last

0:19

episode of the podcast. But for me and

0:22

Keith, it's been a while, man. It's been a

0:24

while. It's been a while. Yeah, what, three weeks?

0:27

It's been about three weeks. I was in Korea

0:29

on Veike Bay Bay. It was

0:31

SK, S to the K. And I was

0:33

having a good ass time. And then so

0:35

right now, we are sitting in Mike's new

0:37

recording, filming office area, which

0:42

I've painted. Yeah, look at that fresh,

0:44

lovely smell of paint. Yeah, and we're

0:46

going to get high as fuck during

0:48

when we're recording these episodes

0:50

of the podcast with some freshly dark

0:52

green paint fumes in it. By the

0:54

way, painting sucks. Never do it. I

0:58

think the worst thing about painting is it's making

1:00

me feel my age. I'm

1:02

pretty treey, and everything is sore. You're

1:05

using muscles that you've never used in

1:07

years. Oh, yeah, you'd never use. Never

1:09

use. And it's like the day before

1:11

I started recording, I hurt

1:13

my foot jogging. And then now everything else

1:15

is just sore. And

1:18

it's going to be sore for probably a good week. And

1:20

you know what? I'm not OK with that. I was going to

1:22

say I'm OK with it, but that would be a lie. I'm

1:24

not. This sucks. This sucks balls. But you

1:26

know what? It's just the glory of growing old. That's it, man.

1:28

Yeah, we're all getting older. Time's

1:31

ticking away. Yes, it's the time to think

1:33

more about our, you know, we have a

1:35

laugh, and we grin, and we tell these

1:37

stories, and we also think about our inevitable

1:39

death. Anyway, let's move on. Let's start on

1:41

a high note. Yeah, exactly. Well, speaking of

1:43

death, this brings us into, oh, you

1:45

know what? Let's start our role here for a second

1:47

before we get into today's story. I'm actually kind of

1:50

annoyed I said that, because that would have been a

1:52

good tangent to what I'm about to say, but I

1:54

have to know. The World has

1:56

to know. OK. Keith. Yeah. Your house.

1:58

Yeah. Haunted. Oh, yeah. I. Use

2:01

a metre is something happened since of Lassie me

2:03

something has happened how healthy as a two things

2:05

about shop and oh okay well let's have a

2:07

eg one now okay and you can save the

2:09

one for the next episode of that's ever been

2:12

Yeah okay okay good ago of here folks at

2:14

say you know some look forward to stay soon

2:16

to facilitate of say to him to say to

2:18

to some the with with a. Yes,

2:21

or the first one is so

2:23

okay. So open my office behind

2:25

me. There's. A close rock

2:27

so it is an office slice drawing

2:29

room. possess. First I was in. love

2:32

them. Yeah yeah guy stories You ever

2:34

get her to Where Isis behind me

2:36

to the clotheshorse. And on

2:38

the undertones or to have like a to not

2:40

have a soft drying rack. Things like a circle

2:43

with mode pegs. Yes and yes I am. I

2:45

am familiar. You're familiar Korea somehow Things I we

2:47

saved. A lot of find that is. So

2:50

we have that on the horses. Hooked onto the

2:53

Hortons. So I was doing some podcasting work which

2:55

are you to do latest. Nice warrior hard working

2:57

for Ferrari. Were hard work and as a small

2:59

office the window closed. the door was closed is

3:01

no breeze and at all for her and I

3:03

have been lately kind of wooden houses can like

3:05

a sense of smell like some sums what's new.

3:08

Type thing I've known Yannick Felix of

3:10

was what me here and we could

3:12

have been bringing the clothes or said

3:14

nobody would have registered under the details

3:16

lot of code or is not forget

3:18

what I declined to stay vigilant am

3:20

so we sit in there and work

3:22

and way and behind me it was

3:25

like as if somebody grabbed us and

3:27

right that soft drawing rock and kind

3:29

of pushed as were kind of went

3:31

down to rail of the clotheshorse like

3:33

it was okay i just swinging a

3:35

push down a good force really yeah

3:37

on end. I could get Here is not

3:39

the rattling of the pegs. Honest and lupine

3:41

on had moved at least of footwear is

3:44

a was a riddle. Aides were down the

3:46

as if somebody you know as if someone's

3:48

gonna nearly walk by bumped into hadn't moved

3:50

down them this how frequently because I'm telling

3:52

no windows the doors closed of nobody is

3:54

a small room on the thing moved on

3:56

it was here's the boomed as is no

3:58

Us nice revenue. right? Very very strange.

4:01

Let me let me ask you this much. he

4:03

didn't get up. Move down, go sit back down

4:05

at your desk in an oh moves known have

4:07

a good Alec I was. the thing is I

4:09

can be sure you to do so. He has

4:11

a bit like I didn't know where exactly was

4:14

Zoellick boss it was the fuck like it hears

4:16

in I could hear I could hear deal james

4:18

angle I could have juggling I could hear it

4:20

slides and when looked around with kind of swaying

4:22

Loomis you know So I was moving to sell

4:24

like something have have no idea a one thing

4:26

the of accounting Funny what are my son of

4:29

what could be. Fair. Government putting up

4:31

cameras in your house like around the place you

4:33

know to odds the capturing wherever you know I'm

4:35

yes have little emotion cameras are ever yeah I

4:37

would like to do it like it's a would

4:40

know where to put it like the for some

4:42

some by the of happen in the office, months

4:44

of hop mother front door area at the Alex

4:46

Mercer years noise and so so I don't know

4:48

of what kinds of second hand for com earth

4:51

at your peril activity that that's true they didn't

4:53

So why can't they didn't like the I sat

4:55

they say is that it in a movie he

4:57

that Obama the I'm Rounders save for a new

4:59

technology works physicist. At the system works people

5:01

that are I well you know does the

5:04

story of Seeds Hundred as see awareness yet

5:06

again or Adam Region really block to do

5:08

in it or episodes and we did For

5:10

listener stories over way add another listen stories

5:12

part to you haven't or yes it is

5:14

coming we've actually are. We recorded completely off

5:17

into some actually better of yes so that

5:19

you know. Stay tuned, stay tuned folks. But.

5:21

An. Item For a sudden. Anyway

5:24

as his is upset and that I've heard that

5:27

guess this is. So.

5:29

Today is you clicked on the podcast.

5:31

You know the title is under. title

5:33

is Am Well this is a story

5:35

of a cop and a killer. It's

5:37

it's ready to stories. The. Stories

5:39

kind of intertwine their about the

5:41

same thing are very much not

5:43

the same. One of the of

5:45

the people a slush was a

5:47

police officer with the London Metropolitan

5:49

Police. The mess. The. Other a

5:52

serial killer from Scott says

5:54

for lord individually vast source

5:56

is really though there's the bosses

5:58

ever is now. What happened in the

6:01

story and there's the truth And the truth

6:03

is really a lot of we don't knows

6:05

us take people's words for it. So us

6:07

or on my start a means of fear

6:09

and versatile Sq to use our version of

6:11

i guess you know I love the ladder

6:13

beside alerts at have some that I think

6:15

it's the fumes. I think it's something we're

6:17

gonna. We're gonna blame the fumes. yeah of

6:19

it. Stay tuned folks who knows what's gonna

6:21

happen. Not him. Now I have no idea

6:23

daughter were just going to we subscript that

6:25

we don't know if the place all right.

6:27

So let's start with the police officer who

6:29

is one half. Of this or a guy

6:31

named Jess plots hot shot cop. Just.

6:33

That's career with the London Metropolitan Police

6:36

began. Away was is both a detective

6:38

and a firearms officer and a his

6:40

career was the stuff of legend you

6:42

that you've ever seen a movie Hop

6:44

flows Keys I have the in the

6:46

movie after movie yes it is very

6:48

good movie and he really is like

6:50

site.and main guy some Eggs character I

6:52

Zero Cops My Angel or My Cameras

6:54

aims but as an adult literacy who

6:57

just plot was commendation after commendation. Over

6:59

the years Gs arrest the

7:01

Royal a serving cabinet member

7:04

on multiple celebrities in London.

7:06

Use. Even helping out instead of his

7:09

retirement with Operation Huge Tree which

7:11

was the Mets investigation into widespread

7:13

abuse in B B B C

7:15

during the nineteen seventies. I'm

7:17

sure most we will learn the heard

7:19

of that have heard of Jimmy Savile

7:21

that was Operation You to You as

7:23

unfortunately the operation into these B B

7:25

C abuse it only be on and

7:28

twenty twelve looking to crimes that happened

7:30

but in the seventies and by that

7:32

stage to me was a rotten corpse

7:34

he had his that year the Windsor

7:36

success the does very worst case those

7:38

lights of course he was pizza does

7:40

anybody is not look like a harmful

7:42

fucking disgusting on city where in the

7:44

universe you get away with this it

7:46

with. A back to back

7:48

to our hero cops effie. So. By

7:51

the time he retired, just plus had

7:53

enough experience to fill a a libraries

7:55

worth of books. But there was one

7:57

case, one case in particular to see.

8:00

Investigated that nobody above all that

8:02

silk with Gs over the years

8:04

just could written about any of

8:06

the hundreds of of gunbattles he

8:08

participated in. or a by the

8:10

time he intervened in a hostage

8:12

situation and ends up killing the

8:14

perpetrator with a tire aren't beaten

8:16

than seven days a side room

8:18

which is a very interesting starts

8:20

points the man seats shows you

8:22

write his first book about was

8:25

a case from way back in

8:27

Nineteen Eighty Three, when Plots was

8:29

just a junior. Detective with the

8:31

Mets. Just. Sauce first saw

8:33

Tear and Patrick Kelly on Be

8:35

Sixty of August nineteen age when

8:37

the Irishman cured and his Paul

8:39

Paul Mcmanus are being booked into

8:41

the cells i Clapham Police Station

8:43

on suspicion of the tests of

8:46

a wedding ring and watch from

8:48

a sixty five year old man

8:50

on Be nearby Clapham Common. They

8:52

just smoked, some old guy stolen

8:54

his watch in his wedding ring

8:56

Telly and Mcmanus were tossed into

8:58

a cell with a turd prisoner

9:00

William Boy who was being. Books completely

9:02

severed to them use been booked for being

9:04

drunk and disorderly and basically he was this

9:07

guy. William Boyd was thrown into the cell

9:09

to sleep it off. Less.

9:11

Than an hour later, officers heard

9:13

Paul Mcmanus screaming to be last

9:16

out of his cell. When.

9:18

They rushed to investigate. Base.

9:20

And a frantic Mcmanus begging for

9:22

the cell to be opened. Kiran.

9:25

Kelly was sitting calmly. And

9:27

barefoot on a bench. And

9:30

William Boyd was dead. This

9:32

whole thing may not have never have happened

9:34

if it wasn't for the laziness of a

9:36

cushy sergeant who put the tree homeless men

9:38

into the same cell simply to avoid having

9:40

to clean to cells and set of one.

9:43

So. Far from me Three four case the

9:45

plots and be other detectives that that

9:47

station were expecting a murderer in a

9:49

jail cell, kiran Kelly to a murderous

9:52

wrench into the cogs when. Moon.

9:54

after another he admitted

9:56

to more than a

9:58

dozen murders that he had

10:01

committed over a 30 year period

10:03

and they were just the ones he admitted

10:05

to in official interviews and Not

10:07

get this the extra 20

10:10

or so he told Jeff

10:12

Platt off the record in

10:14

private Platt and

10:16

Kelly ended up spending a lot of time

10:18

together. It seems like detective Platt and Criminal

10:21

Kelly they kind of had like the

10:23

bond or something They end up hanging

10:25

out talking to each other all the

10:27

time while Kelly was incarcerated now Obviously

10:29

when Kelly openly admitted to being a

10:32

serial killer Jeff Platt looked into Kelly's

10:34

background to find out why Why

10:36

wasn't Kelly like how had he not

10:38

been arrested? Why wasn't he already in

10:40

prison? After a quick

10:42

look into Kelly's record. He was shocked

10:45

shocked couldn't believe it folks Let me

10:47

tell you to find out that Kelly

10:49

had been charged tried and acquitted of

10:52

an astonishing eight murders

10:54

since 1953

10:57

so he was a serial killer had

10:59

been arrested charged, but never was punished

11:02

for it the crime on them Yeah,

11:04

I know just all of us. Yo

11:06

crime murder punishment zero years sentence Nothing

11:08

just kept happening eight times even completed

11:11

He was not only admitting to them now

11:13

after stealing from some guy in a park

11:15

He ended up murdering another guy while in

11:17

the cell over the coming

11:19

months Platt led a crack

11:22

Let me say a craft team to

11:24

a full scale murder inquiry and eventually

11:26

detectives felt they had enough evidence to

11:28

move forward with 1616

11:32

charges against Eric here and Kelly unfortunately

11:35

Superior authorities at the director

11:37

of public prosecutions They had

11:39

some other ideas and

11:41

show that in order to keep the costs

11:43

of prosecution down and to get Kelly banged

11:46

up as quickly as possible They'd only be

11:48

going ahead with five charges. I mean hey

11:50

listen when you're charging a serial killer I

11:52

really don't think there's a money here. Yeah,

11:54

I'm like plays a penny like plats there

11:57

Well, they the higher ups really wanted to

11:59

like sweep under the road, keeping like

12:01

keep that from the media, they were afraid

12:03

that people would be afraid to go to

12:05

work. Yeah, yeah, terror on the underground. Kieran

12:08

was only eventually charged and prosecuted

12:10

for five charges of which he'd

12:13

ultimately be convicted of one UNO

12:16

murder charge and one manslaughter

12:18

charge. So nothing even though he'd

12:21

confessed to 30 plus murders. Someone

12:25

somewhere very high up clearly didn't want

12:27

Kelly's name to be known and

12:29

if it not were for you know

12:32

our hero Jeff, Jeffy being a badass

12:34

fucking hero cop that he is well

12:36

we may never have even heard of

12:38

Kelly if not for Platt. But

12:41

luckily for us if there's one thing

12:43

as a society that we can rely

12:45

on it is that Jeff Platt

12:48

all 6 foot 6, 25

12:50

stone of him, he will fight for

12:52

truth and justice and

12:54

that's not that's when he's not putting

12:56

his PhD pretty huge

12:58

dick into sports science for work

13:00

publishing in psychology and neurology journals

13:04

fucking just being a superhero ladies and

13:06

gentlemen. Oh, yeah, like some say that

13:08

it's absolute legend when he was born he

13:10

drove his motor home from the hospital.

13:12

Oh, he had it sorted. Exactly. Not

13:14

only that he did everything else as well. Yeah,

13:17

you're probably thinking why why why are where

13:19

am I in case some little jokey jokes

13:21

about this hero? Well Because

13:23

maybe he's not. Reason being hardly

13:26

any of what I just said is true. Now

13:29

Kieran Patrick Kelly was most definitely a serial

13:31

killer. He admitted as much himself and we'll

13:33

get to the truth or at least the

13:35

facts because it's a very big difference in

13:37

the facts and the truth in this one.

13:39

But first of all the reality of Jeff

13:41

Platt as well He is

13:43

full of shit. Oh, yeah big time. Yeah,

13:46

he's a serial bullshitter and you

13:48

really can't kind of believe anything

13:50

he said but this entire case

13:52

and this entire story came to

13:54

light when he published his book

13:56

about Kieran Patrick Kelly.

13:58

The book was titled London

14:01

Underground serial killer which in a huge you

14:03

know metropolitan city mega city like London you

14:05

see that title you're gonna buy if you're

14:07

living in London you're gonna buy that look

14:10

I mean it's crazy there was a serial

14:12

killer in London's underground like Jack Ripper only

14:14

this happened recently and worst of all he's

14:16

Irish it was huge like this this book

14:18

went global and with the numbers he was

14:21

saying like Ireland doesn't have a lot of

14:23

serial killers yeah he was at the tippity-top

14:25

yeah killers I think he might be like

14:27

when we're talking about known serial killer like

14:30

almost like the only one the already only one in

14:32

recent times anyway yeah yeah yeah that

14:34

book came out in 2015 and he

14:37

not only claimed that that Kelly had

14:39

personally confessed to him that he killed

14:41

more than 30 people by pushing them

14:43

under trains in London's tube stations well

14:45

he also when he in the book

14:47

he also got Kelly's date and place

14:50

of birth wrong so some of the

14:52

facts there were kind of off from the

14:54

start the book London Underground serial killer as

14:56

he said it was big news when it

14:58

came out how secret serial killer turn you

15:00

plus victims covered up by the police that

15:03

was a big part of this as we

15:05

already mentioned Jeff wanted to go ahead of all these

15:08

prosecutions but they would only do five they want to

15:10

sweep it under the carpet when the book

15:12

came out the London Metropolitan Police Chief he

15:14

even came out himself and was like oh

15:17

my god might that

15:19

was a pretty good loaded accident right thank you

15:21

he promised to look into the reports

15:23

from Jeff's book he couldn't believe it

15:25

when you seen this stuff he was

15:27

like I'm gonna investigate this this is

15:29

insane or the secret serial killer that

15:31

was pushing it a rug it was

15:34

all reopened yeah whole thing was reopened

15:36

hence we know a little bit more

15:38

about what really is a story

15:40

of Kieran Patrick Kelly the

15:42

truth is complicated to say the

15:44

least even without Jeff Platt inserting

15:47

himself into that story the

15:49

good thing about Platt's semi-fiction though

15:51

is that it caught the attention

15:53

of an Irish filmmaker named Robert

15:55

Mulhern who began looking into Kelly

15:57

after reading about him wondering like

15:59

most people at the time would have been wondering

16:01

why have we not heard of this guy before

16:03

this story is insane especially when he's got so many

16:06

bodies to his name it's gotten pretty close that

16:08

makes him a big dog serial killer so

16:10

Robert Mulhern arranged to meet Platt

16:12

to discuss his experiences with Kelly

16:14

and his confessions but it

16:16

didn't take long for Mulhern to realize

16:19

that something wasn't quite right with Platt's

16:21

grandiose stories and after the meeting he

16:23

looked into the official records and found

16:26

that Platt wasn't the lead investigator of

16:28

the Kelly investigation Jeff Platt wasn't even

16:30

the first man into this cell that's

16:32

dubious honor fell to Platt's colleague DC

16:35

Ian Brown and I say colleague in

16:37

the loosest possible way as in a

16:39

guy who works in McDonald's in Dublin

16:41

and a guy who works in McDonald's

16:44

in New York our colleagues you

16:46

know that kind of way Platt never

16:48

even made detective but that's enough you

16:51

know enough for Platt for now we'll get back

16:53

to him yeah he had a long habit of

16:55

embellishing his story but we'll come back to him

16:58

later on in this tale he'll come back in

17:00

and he was as he said he was complete

17:02

bullshitter when he met Robert Mulhern he told him

17:04

that he's been involved in 500 gun battles he'd

17:07

killed five men within his career

17:10

oh yeah also that man that you mentioned

17:12

about him killing with the tire iron he

17:14

said that when he'd done that he'd taken

17:16

his nose off with the tire iron to

17:18

which he was nearly court-martialed for which pretty sure

17:20

that's for the military yeah yeah but he's like

17:23

cool kept going and

17:29

then I did he was just sitting

17:31

there like this can't be true yeah

17:33

so after finishing bragging to Mulhern he'd

17:35

finally started talking about the case then

17:37

and about the book he wrote which

17:39

by the way he said only took

17:41

him a weekend to write whoa I

17:43

know so he's not only this amazing

17:45

badass action guy he's also an amazing

17:47

writer Wow but he told Mulhern that Kelly

17:49

had admitted to him about 31 murders

17:52

when in reality Jeff Platt he was never

17:54

in any of the ten interrogations DC in

17:56

Brown conducted with Karen Kelly yeah so the

17:59

truth was Jeff Platt, he was just

18:01

a guy that got Kelly to and from court.

18:03

So, I'm sure they did talk, but

18:05

nothing was ever official or on the record

18:07

like he claimed. Also, just a

18:10

little side note about Platt. So while Mulhern was

18:12

investigating this case, he struggled to get in contact

18:14

with Jeff for a number of months. He just,

18:16

I guess, assumed... Yeah, but Jeff has all these

18:18

great stories, wouldn't he? Why wouldn't he want to

18:20

talk to this filmmaker? He's probably gonna make a

18:22

documentary. That's it. He just assumed, you know what,

18:24

he's probably a busy guy, can't get in touch

18:26

with him, he's just out there doing action shit.

18:29

Yeah. But the reason that he wasn't able to

18:31

get in touch with him, because Platt was in prison for six

18:33

months in 2015. He

18:35

was involved in a hit and run where

18:37

he'd hit a five-year-old child. Right, yes. Luckily,

18:40

the child was only treated for severe bruising. It

18:42

could have been way worse, but... Yeah. He just

18:44

had this, like, a crossing for, like, a school,

18:46

like, you know, with the lollipop lady. And he

18:48

just had road rage and just, like, snapped and

18:51

just drove through him. Pretty much, he was crazy.

18:53

He was, like, two cars back and the lollipop lady was stopped

18:56

and he was like, No! And he was, like, nearly mounted a

18:58

curb, like, you know, like, tucked down there. Do you know who

19:00

I am? Yeah. I've saved

19:02

people, I'll kill you too. I'll knock your

19:04

nose off. It's a really wild, uh, wild

19:06

story. Jeff? Honestly, I kinda like him for

19:09

how much he bullshits. Yeah, yeah,

19:11

it's pretty funny. It's pretty funny, yeah. He's

19:13

a pretty funny guy. But, like, what's annoying

19:15

about this is, because when you take out

19:17

all of the fiction bullshit he had us,

19:19

like, Kelly was still a very vicious murderer

19:21

who killed multiple people. There was no need

19:23

to exaggerate. Yeah, right. Exactly. The story alone

19:25

is amazing. Yeah, and why do you need

19:28

to add all these other murders? He just

19:30

really had to insert himself into it and bring

19:32

his own unique, um, exclusive shit to the story

19:34

that you can only find in his book, available

19:36

at all good book stores till 1510. But

19:39

now let's get to the reality

19:41

of Kieran Kpk. Kieran Pachikaly. Wrath

19:44

Downey lies in the belly of

19:46

Ireland in southwest County Leech. Officially,

19:48

it's a town, but with a

19:50

modern population of a smidge over

19:52

1,200 people, it's

19:55

a small town as small town gets.

19:58

Despite existing in some form, since

20:00

the early 9th century there's well no reason

20:02

to know it up Keith have you ever

20:04

been to their right any never no no

20:06

never heard of it I actually looked up

20:08

on the map to see if I may

20:10

have even driven sure sure I said yeah

20:12

but no it's like it's because I

20:14

have been down like Cork and Kerry which but it

20:17

doesn't even like go true that time you know you

20:19

kind of you've merged around us yeah yeah yeah so

20:21

you need to be like going to the town to

20:23

go to town yeah exactly well that's

20:25

where we're going because wrath down

20:27

he was the birthplace of one

20:29

KPK here and Patrick Kelly Kelly

20:32

called wrath down he home from the 16th

20:34

of March 1930 when he was

20:37

squeezed out to be in his

20:39

bid for the most miserable life

20:41

of the 20th century the

20:43

Kelly clan didn't actually stick around in the

20:45

tiny town for too long packing their bags

20:48

and moving to Dublin in the early 1940s

20:50

yeah no knew why

20:52

they moved either they were there one day and then they were gone the

20:55

next without like any

20:57

word funny which is strange for these small

20:59

towns you could you

21:01

know everyone know the tourist business yeah just

21:03

already where the kind of gun like yeah

21:05

which is a bit strange in itself but

21:07

we have when they moved it up they

21:09

moved the hardcore streets oh really yeah like

21:11

right across and copper hey listen for the

21:13

folks the Irish folks here listen to this

21:15

they know coppers and probably have their own

21:18

fucking PTSD for not at all but

21:20

for everything both to the audience who is not

21:22

ours has never heard of coppers it's a

21:25

late night bar and it's fucking awful yeah it's

21:27

one is like the only late night bar so

21:29

usually like yeah I think it's like you end

21:31

up there when does not rail to go to

21:33

drink yeah yeah you're like three in the morning

21:35

yeah yeah I've been there multiple times

21:37

and I couldn't tell you for life me what it

21:40

looks like and use it me neither I've been there

21:42

multiple times and I've regretted it each and every time

21:45

so born into poverty in Ralph

21:48

Downey or on Harcourt Street Kelly was involved

21:50

in petty crime before he'd even reached his

21:52

teens just like many of his

21:54

fellow countrymen at the time Kelly knew there

21:56

was little for him in Ireland times were

21:59

hard everywhere and especially on the

22:01

Emerald Isle. Poverty pretty

22:03

much an epidemic, and there was simply no work

22:05

for anyone to drag themselves out of it. No

22:07

matter how hard an individual was willing to work,

22:09

and people would always say Kelly was, he was

22:11

not work shy. He was a really hard worker

22:13

when he was given the opportunity. There was just

22:15

nowhere for him to even work. He did briefly

22:17

join the army, but was kicked out after going

22:19

AWOL. So I suppose I can kind of take

22:21

back what I just said about him being work

22:23

shy, because he honestly didn't give a fuck about

22:25

working in the army. He was like, he was

22:27

very- He was very contradictory man. Yeah,

22:32

yeah. Like he was, there was like loads of

22:34

examples of him working real hard, but then he was

22:36

also, he was a drunk as well. Yeah. Sometimes he

22:38

does completely void work. So he was all over the

22:40

place. It seems like he worked hard on construction sites

22:42

where he worked a lot, but then in the army

22:44

where you have to be like disciplined and shit, it's

22:46

like, nope, this is not gonna fly. Also,

22:49

I had no idea that AWOL was an acronym

22:51

before today. Absent without leave? Yeah, I don't know.

22:53

I just thought it was the word AWOL. Oh

22:55

really? You just thought that was the word? Well,

22:58

it doesn't sound good. There you go. If

23:02

you thought Keith was not as stupid as

23:04

I am, you just learned today. I

23:06

am as stupid as I am. The

23:09

combination of a lack of prospects and

23:11

the faint glimmer of hope of potential

23:13

work offered by a move eastward across

23:15

the Irish Sea, it was too much

23:17

for Kelly to turn down and that

23:19

was it. He left Ireland. As

23:22

it turned out, however, London wasn't

23:24

the refuge he hoped. And

23:26

25-year-old Kelly soon fell into

23:28

alcoholism and homelessness. He

23:31

was also in and out

23:33

of the notorious secure psychological

23:35

hospital, Broadmoor. Occasionally, Kelly

23:37

would take some work as a laborer and,

23:39

as we mentioned here when he did, he was always

23:42

praised for just how hard he was willing to

23:44

bust his ass. Problem was,

23:46

he just couldn't say no to

23:48

a dorapadarinkifarlangenuf and would always find

23:50

his way back into the bar.

23:54

Thank you. I listen to an interview. You're

23:57

awesome. You'll be able to do it.

24:00

And an Irishman, can I do an Irish accent? I

24:04

listened to an interview with a guy who had hired

24:07

Kelly in London as a laborer around

24:09

his time and he said, as you were saying, he

24:11

was a fantastic worker when he was there. But he

24:13

had to keep a very close eye on him because

24:15

if he went off site and came back later that

24:17

day, Kelly would have just checked off down to pub.

24:19

And that was the end of the work day for

24:21

Kelly. Also, when Kelly went to Broadmoor,

24:23

which you were mentioning there, it was for a robbery

24:26

he committed in South East London in the 1960s. So

24:29

he broke into a house, tied up a woman

24:31

inside and then threatened her with a knife and

24:33

then robbed her. So he was arrested for this

24:35

and was detained under the Mental Health Act. He

24:37

was then sent to Broadmoor for the crumbly insane

24:40

where after two years they decided that there was

24:42

nothing more they could do for him. He's

24:44

a lost God. Yeah, so they released him in 1971. Literally

24:47

what they said was, he's too crazy, we can't help

24:49

him. We just let him loose then.

24:51

Ain't nothing wrong with that pal. We let him back on

24:54

the streets, he has a police problem. It was like a

24:56

hospital, you know. So they were there to help people and

24:58

they were like, we can't help him. So he's done

25:00

here. Way Broadmoor

25:02

operated back then was mind-boggling. So

25:05

they used to let patients out on day

25:07

relief and give them weekend

25:09

passes. These were dangerous criminals with severe

25:11

mental illness. Broadmoor is kind of like

25:14

the real world version of Arkham Asylum

25:16

from Batman. It's like for, you

25:19

know, what is it called? Criminally insane people. Yeah, yeah,

25:21

yeah. That's exactly what it was. And

25:23

they were just letting people out on like a weekend pass. Yeah.

25:27

This policy was finally changed in the

25:29

1990s following a series of high profile

25:31

escapes. Shocking. Wow. I'm

25:33

right, yeah. Madness. But yeah, that's Broadmoor. If

25:35

it works, it works. Say listen,

25:37

you know, no, no, no drive. So on

25:40

top of his drinking, Kelly was also known

25:42

for his furious temper. And this was long

25:44

before he arrived in London. Whether

25:46

he was drinking or not, nosy Kelly, as

25:48

he was known, would fly off the handle

25:50

and into a rage at the slightest provocation.

25:53

And despite being just a little fella, he was around

25:55

five foot seven. Ain't nothing wrong with that. And

25:58

compared to the burly men. he worked

26:00

next to on the construction site to see

26:02

how Kelly was a little bit lighter, he

26:05

could always hold his own in a scrapay

26:07

list that crazy beats strong every time. And

26:10

a lot of people who knew him or spent

26:12

a lot of time with him remarked on his

26:14

tendency to begin shadow boxing when he got

26:16

restless. He just liked to fight and it was

26:18

almost inevitable really that a guy like that with

26:21

his drinking and tendency to lose control

26:24

would end up really, and I mean

26:26

really hurting somebody. What

26:28

no one expected though was that

26:30

the first time Kieran Kelly was

26:32

arrested for murder there was no

26:34

manhunt, no house to house searches,

26:36

there wasn't even an investigation.

26:40

There really would be a confession in

26:42

the early 80s after a murder in a

26:44

jail cell where this story began, the story

26:46

that Jeff Platt had no real involvement

26:48

in it. Jeff Platt's story

26:51

about Kelly's 1983 arrest for mugging

26:53

a man on Clap and Common along

26:55

with his pal Paul McManus, that was

26:57

true, Kelly did mug a man with

26:59

his buddy. That man's name

27:01

was Walter Bell. 65 year

27:03

old Bell had been relieved of his

27:06

wedding ring and wristwatch by two drunken

27:08

gentlemen who in turn had been relieved

27:10

of their freedom by a couple of

27:13

London bunnies. My accents are

27:15

getting worse, I don't know what that was. You're

27:17

just out of practice. I know, I need to.

27:19

You need to practice more. You need to sense

27:21

Sogent in my head, you know. You recognize them

27:24

from Bell's description. Not long there

27:26

we go, idea not long after the robbery.

27:28

I can do Irish, I can do London,

27:31

what can't I do? Even

27:34

more astonishing though was that the

27:36

story about Kelly murdering Boyd in

27:38

the cell, that was also a

27:40

reality. Kelly did murder William Boyd

27:42

a 1983 in the jail cell.

27:44

He strangled him while he was

27:46

asleep using, Kelly used his socks

27:48

to murder this guy in the cell. Imagine just

27:51

a person who would calmly sit down,

27:53

you know, squat and then unlace

27:55

their shoes, strip off their socks,

27:57

tie the socks Together, Strong

28:00

enough to make a. Garage.

28:02

And then walk over and strangle a man

28:05

long enough to kill him. This.

28:07

Is because Boyd was snoring. That's why he

28:09

killed. Boy. Was asleep. he snoring

28:11

returns' wake him up Kelly was like you

28:13

know what? You. Know net him and

28:15

says probably good thing boyd sleep because those

28:17

silks was a boy day what our I

28:20

dismiss and around too drunk homeless it alcoholic

28:22

Sox depths of this yet doesn't He saw

28:24

this and I can be like he went

28:27

from zero two hundred real quick if something

28:29

or someone was irritating and he would

28:31

just fly off the handle Lhasa at a

28:33

moment's notice you mentioned earlier.his nickname was no

28:35

the Kelly com have the other big nose

28:38

both he was also known as cycle can

28:40

be by a lot of the I like

28:42

as move more to the point into. His

28:45

know this isn't good enough. This is

28:47

my cyclist so even go psycho Kelly

28:49

by. I love homeless and men around

28:51

the area and they were genuinely terrified

28:53

of can cause him so unpredictable and

28:55

said violent in nature. Also. Does

28:57

Quick side note: I taught myself that this

29:00

could mean the only time some was killed

29:02

with North and or is it's like so

29:04

many examples but was actually one of a

29:06

similar case in Ireland. So and thousand and

29:08

two were a prisoner was stabbed to death

29:11

by his cellmate for snoring. Very.

29:13

Very similar so plan and of i know there

29:15

is thinking sleep when ours person just make sure

29:17

you notice north as area go goodness our better

29:19

myself. So. After tell he

29:21

murdered William Void in the cell in

29:24

ninety a treat for snoring swapped out

29:26

please have a A D C N

29:28

Round was the guy who was actually

29:31

responsible for interviewed Kelly not just lost

29:33

and he was the guy who heard

29:35

tell you concessions and this is where

29:38

we're gonna get into all of Kelly's

29:40

murders. We. Know this because

29:42

unlike the imaginings of our meat

29:44

yes there are records and even

29:46

and eight minute tape of the

29:48

first interview sadly be tape so

29:50

follow up and views have been

29:52

lost over the years sadly in

29:54

turn adding more authenticity to Just

29:56

Slots claims are they cover up?

29:58

Rio just was. The away from works out

30:00

for me. The nobody can prove I'm wrong. The.

30:03

Reality though is actually a lot more

30:05

mundane. This wasn't a cover up it

30:07

just it only recently became a required

30:09

standard for all his views to be

30:11

audio recorded thanks to easier access to

30:14

the technology and the desire to get

30:16

away from descendants either. Flaming Confessions were

30:18

beaten out of them and equally strong

30:20

desire to be the end The confessions

30:22

out of people and is recorded Everybody's

30:24

good records were couple tins, papers an

30:27

audio cassettes and I can the day

30:29

you know all that stuff had to

30:31

be loved and real have to constantly.

30:33

Were be taken in there holding to be

30:35

used as an exhibit and so it's natural

30:38

and the early days things would simply just

30:40

get lost. So. That's probably

30:42

what happens rotterdam an active conspiracy

30:44

to cover up a London Underground

30:46

serial killer, which is exactly what

30:48

plot was claiming in his books.

30:50

Once again though, that's plot side

30:52

tracking things. Only weakness I I

30:54

know, I know, I gotta go

30:56

on my weird and so back

30:58

to reality though. And so Kelly

31:00

he was in London. He works

31:02

as a construction site. He was

31:04

known as saw a Cao Cao.

31:06

We then years later decades later

31:08

he was arrested in Nineteen Eighty

31:10

Three for mugging. Somebody and then murdering

31:12

somebody And that's when the murders really

31:14

started to come out by walk. have

31:16

you been up to over these years?

31:19

right? From the first interview, Kelly. He.

31:21

Was open. It was cordial, almost

31:24

respectful with Brown call in and

31:26

boss and spring which answering anything

31:28

Brown asked of him. Over

31:31

the course of several interviews between

31:33

D C. Brown and Gear and

31:35

Kelly, Kelly confessed to. Thirteen.

31:37

Fourteen or fifteen murders sets us

31:40

a com from Kelly. As

31:42

our to keep track you know as so

31:44

many tapes were lost and even the ones

31:46

we do have tell he has a tendency

31:49

to skip between subjects and not stay on

31:51

track. them in his brain was probably customers.

31:54

The. First to come up was the

31:56

death of Hector. Hector

31:59

had died. six years earlier

32:01

and no progress had been made in

32:03

his case. In fact, Kelly

32:05

had been among the parade of vagrants

32:07

that had been interviewed at the time

32:09

Hector died. Kelly had been

32:11

disregarded as a suspect though at the time

32:14

as the police thought he didn't have a

32:16

motive for killing Hector Fisher. Now

32:18

in reality, the murder was to cover

32:20

up a robbery, something that no one

32:23

knew at the time of Fisher's death

32:25

because Kelly had so

32:27

cleverly. I take back what I

32:29

said about his brain being rushed, because he left £20

32:31

on Fisher's body,

32:34

so therefore he couldn't have killed him to rob him

32:36

if he left money with his body. It

32:38

was pretty smart. It was actually not bad a deal at

32:41

all. But little did anyone know that Fisher

32:43

had actually been carrying a far bigger sum

32:45

of cash at the time, so the £20,

32:47

no pittance of its own, but you know

32:49

by just leaving a small nend that would

32:51

make it appear as though the murder wasn't

32:53

motivated by theft, which it was. After

32:55

all, what kind of robber would leave that

32:57

kind of moolah behind? It's only through Kelly's

33:00

confession then that the truth about Hector Fisher's

33:02

death was known. If he'd

33:04

never said anything to Detective Brown,

33:06

Hector Fisher's death would be considered

33:08

an accident today. Now

33:10

hearing Kelly laugh and even use about

33:12

how he was too clever for the

33:14

police, that's again his quote, because he

33:17

pulled that trick with the £20, while

33:19

simultaneously owning up to a crime that

33:21

no one had any idea he'd involved

33:23

in, it's well pretty comical, but as

33:25

Keith, you also said very stupidly, he

33:28

was a man of contradictions. He was,

33:30

and I've listened to the tapes and

33:32

it seems he really did get a

33:34

good kick out of being smarter than

33:36

the police, which as he said, it's

33:38

stupidly ironic saying this while being in

33:40

police custody, but one of the other

33:42

details he told police about the murder

33:44

of Hector Fisher was that when he

33:46

was interviewed by police at the time,

33:48

he was wearing the same blood-stained jumper

33:50

he wore during the murder, which

33:53

again he found really amusing during the tapes, but in

33:55

fairness to the police, he was wearing a red jumper.

33:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The

34:00

up with. Another killing Kelly

34:02

confess tube and site was be

34:04

fairly sure he did do with

34:06

that of Morris Wally. Wally.

34:09

Had been found dead at the bottom

34:11

of a staircase snow of the time

34:13

it was presumed that where he had

34:15

just fallen drunk obviously down the stairs.

34:17

And so he was ruled an accidental

34:19

death. There. Was definitely a touch

34:21

of prejudice when it came to vagrants

34:23

and the medical examiner was more than

34:25

likely just wanted to get this das

34:27

off his desk without money for signing

34:29

up. Bullshit like that. It's It's

34:32

actually shocking how easy was for terrorists to

34:34

get away with murder. Through his

34:36

own a very minimal efforts but also

34:38

true every elses bc like is giving

34:41

a shit about justice for the victims.

34:43

Kelly. Was able to describe the

34:45

scene perfectly and confessed to hitting

34:48

Wally in the head with the

34:50

bricks, causing him to fall down

34:52

the stairs to his death. Kelly.

34:54

Had enough of the facts correct to

34:57

have the case reopened in and case

34:59

was looked into again. And then that

35:01

meant reexamining all of the cases Kelly

35:03

claimed to have been involved in. Kelly.

35:06

Had actually stood trial before

35:08

and the Old Bailey and

35:10

nineteen Seventy Seven for murder.

35:13

Kelly. Like to sleep aid churchyards

35:16

because. He. Was. Says

35:19

ssssss even as they for

35:21

Los Los Dos Santos you

35:23

it or know live in

35:25

cities sees darts Mississippi they've

35:27

made gossip pomona. yeah. Unfortunately

35:30

though I you and tell you so

35:33

Kelly had a survey spot. Unfortunately for

35:35

a fellow rough sleepers Edward told Edward

35:37

thought that he well lead to some

35:39

Kelly likes can be ads from now

35:42

on. Tell he wasn't too

35:44

pleased with finding someone sleeping in his

35:46

place. And so I go homeless, Goldilocks.

35:49

He decided to use the rope he'd

35:51

been employing as a belts to strangle

35:53

Ed till. now there are a

35:55

whole bunch of witnesses or guess all major

35:57

incident all zebra somewhere sleep in the greater

36:00

And they saw this happen. They saw

36:02

Kieran strangle Ed to death and Kelly

36:04

told DC Brown when he's being interviewed

36:06

That one of the other rough sleepers

36:09

had said to him quote Jesus you

36:11

might have killed him Well

36:13

Kelly apparently didn't like to leave a

36:15

job half done and went back to

36:17

strangling toll until he was not breathing

36:20

And at which point Kelly turned to the

36:22

onlooker and said well I fucking

36:24

have now Which is pretty

36:26

good. That was a good accident. Thank you

36:29

terrible what he did Oh, yeah, absolutely horrific,

36:31

but thank you. That's you know it's important. I

36:33

get the accent right So

36:35

Kelly having literally murdered a man in front

36:38

of dozens of witnesses Something is something you

36:40

seem to make a habit out of he

36:42

was eventually arrested and charged with that murder

36:45

By the time it came to trial however the

36:47

case against him for strangling Ed toll to death

36:50

and the graveyard the case had already fallen Apart

36:52

it should have been a cut-and-shut conviction Kelly

36:54

did six months in jail while waiting for

36:56

the trial to come up and not only

36:58

was he not doing drugs or drinking He

37:01

was actually taking care of himself and eating

37:03

better than he had in years It's not

37:05

hard to see why jail didn't scare him

37:07

when the outside was so much harder Kelly

37:10

though he you know by the time it came to

37:12

trial He was looking like an upstanding

37:14

member of society and presented himself that

37:16

way in courts even standing to attention

37:18

and yes, sir And yes, mamming his

37:20

way into everybody's good books The

37:23

witnesses though the other people in the

37:25

graveyard that night had not been so

37:27

fortunate They'd all stayed out

37:29

in the streets continuing the their hard life

37:31

living that meant the witnesses or

37:33

at least the ones they could get Of

37:35

hold of or weren't dead or in prison

37:37

themselves. They were not seen as the most

37:40

reliable Obviously the

37:42

details of the Ed toll murder were

37:44

all in Kelly's file and available to

37:46

DC Brown So one plus one equals

37:48

two and what Kelly openly admitting

37:50

to a bunch of murderers brand thought surely at

37:52

some point He would admit to the murder of

37:55

Edward toll Strangely though Kelly

37:57

never actually admitted to that murder the murder

37:59

he did in front of You know a load

38:01

of people a lot of people witnessed him killing

38:03

this and it was the one time He said

38:05

he didn't do that one which is interesting so

38:07

with all we know about Kelly's willingness

38:09

and readiness to kill and in front of

38:11

dozens of witnesses It's very weird that he

38:14

would admit to plenty of murders. It's not the

38:16

one everybody saw him do yeah Do it very

38:18

clear. I think it was it was as if

38:20

in his mind He had absolved himself because the

38:22

court said he didn't do it So

38:25

it was like well the judge said I didn't do

38:27

it and that's good enough for me Yeah, so in

38:29

his mind maybe I don't know I don't know it

38:31

was my work It was a lovely Kelly probably didn't have

38:33

a clue what was going on so that's a good point

38:35

That's a very good key does you're

38:38

in a home run where you're good points today nice So

38:43

what's even more bizarre than not? Confessing to

38:45

a murderer that he almost certainly did commit

38:48

It's that Kelly also confessed to a variety

38:50

of murders that he didn't commit that he didn't do

38:52

in In addition to confessing

38:55

to a murder that had happened

38:57

while Kelly was actually serving time

38:59

in prison Kelly also told DC

39:01

Brown that the very first person

39:03

he'd ever killed was actually his

39:05

best friend a guy named Christy

39:08

Smith who'd come over from Ireland

39:10

with Kelly According to

39:12

Kelly the two had been walking

39:14

along the London Underground railway system

39:16

and after Christy had said something

39:18

that pissed Kelly off Kelly had

39:20

basically shoved Christy onto the tracks

39:22

and he landed under a train

39:24

at Baker Street Station

39:26

hey listen did you get Sherlock fucking homes on

39:28

the case around his goddamn station with this thing

39:31

you know It's actually kind of interesting now that

39:33

we're getting into Kelly's confessions that he confessed to

39:35

DC Brown not to Jeff lap But his confessions

39:37

are so all over the place you can kind

39:39

of see why Jeff was like this guy's

39:42

so kind of full of shit And who knows

39:44

what he's saying I can probably just invent shit.

39:46

Nobody's gonna dispute this It's true like during the

39:48

confessions like he used to he'd get up throughout

39:50

the confessions And I'll start shadowboxing and then really

39:52

yeah, and then you get he was just like

39:55

so jittery the whole time And you get back

39:57

down then he talked you'd get names wrong dates

40:00

wrong he was confessing to like murders when he was

40:02

in prison yeah yeah he was it was all over

40:04

the place and convinced it was a

40:06

certain name then the next day they'd go back with that

40:08

name like no I didn't say that name or did they

40:10

show him a photo one day I killed that guy and

40:12

the next day they showed the same photos I'm never gonna

40:14

go in my life so it was just he was all

40:17

over the place but yeah like when we kind of start

40:19

piecing together he definitely killed a lot of people yeah I

40:21

was trying to figure out who yeah yeah

40:23

yeah so him pushing

40:25

his friend Christy Smith you know onto

40:28

a tube line and getting run over

40:30

by an underground train hence getting his

40:32

name the London underground serial killer that

40:34

was Kelly's story pretty sure it didn't

40:36

happen pretty sure Christy Smith was

40:39

not one of his victims years

40:41

and years later when the Irish documentary

40:44

filmmaker Robert Mulhern he was investigating they

40:46

looked into the Christy Smith case and

40:48

found that while there was indeed a

40:50

man named Christy Smith who worked for

40:52

the railways and died in an accident

40:55

that possibly could have been the one

40:57

Kelly was referring to there was some

40:59

key discrepancies between the two such as

41:01

Kelly swearing that had happened in the

41:04

year Queen Elizabeth the second was it

41:06

was coronated which was 1953 but that

41:08

was three years off from

41:10

the year Christy Smith was actually hit by a train

41:12

which was in 1950 so it

41:15

seems like maybe he did meet a Christy

41:17

Smith but Christy Smith actually worked for the

41:19

railways who knows if they were friends or

41:21

not he was killed by a train maybe

41:24

he read it in a paper and decided

41:26

he had murdered him when he just was

41:28

in a railway accident who knows in

41:31

the podcast you're referring to they had one

41:33

theory which I think seems really plausible so

41:36

from the interviews with the tech of Ian

41:38

Brown and Kelly where Kelly began confessing to

41:40

various murders was really evident that he was

41:43

completely disoriented beyond a mix of dates and

41:45

plates and stuff but the one

41:47

thing that Kelly was adamant about was the

41:50

murder of Christy Smith he stood firm insisting that

41:52

this was his first kill which we know is

41:54

like a copy true you can see it was

41:56

in prison but one possibility could

41:59

be that Kelly He did in fact

42:01

push Chrissie Smith onto the train tracks

42:03

at one point during an argument and

42:05

then run off not realising that Smith

42:07

had survived. Then a

42:09

few years later by complete coincidence Chrissie

42:11

Smith was killed by a train while

42:13

working which Kelly then heard through the

42:15

grapevine and just assumed it was him.

42:18

Like a disall conjuncture but it seems plausible

42:21

to me and then it also really tracks

42:23

well with Kelly's behaviour. Like he'd often just

42:25

like assault people and then he'd

42:27

just like flee the scene like some sort of like

42:29

crazed. You have love in

42:31

common. You'll never catch me. You

42:36

mentioned it there, the podcast. So there's a

42:38

podcast called The Nobody Zone. That's Robert Schmulhorn,

42:40

the Irish filmmaker who was later

42:43

on investigating this case after Jeff Flatt's book

42:45

came out. So The Nobody Zone is a

42:47

podcast, it's multiple parts. It's very excellent, really

42:49

really great if you're looking to get into

42:51

more details about this whole story. It's like

42:53

multiple parts. I think there was even a...

42:55

Yeah there was like six films. It was

42:57

eight altogether. I think it might have been

42:59

turned into a TV documentary and possibly a

43:01

film as well. I haven't seen the

43:03

film. I've listened to the documentary or the

43:06

podcast. Yeah. Really really good. Yeah

43:08

so for the folks at home who want to hear more

43:10

about the story, check out The Nobody Zone. It's

43:12

a great, really well done podcast. Or is that here?

43:14

Will someone all be 40 minutes? Exactly or is it

43:16

just us and he doesn't do anything else? So

43:21

Kelly's total, even without Chrissie

43:23

Smith, stood at four murders.

43:25

The authorities could be pretty

43:27

certain he had committed. William

43:29

Boyt who he strangled in a

43:31

jail cell, his final victim. Hector

43:34

Fisher who he robbed, wink wink,

43:37

pretending like he didn't rob by leaving the

43:39

money behind. Maurice Whaley who he pushed down

43:41

the stairs but it was assumed to be

43:43

an accident. And Edward Toll who

43:45

he strangled in a graveyard in front of

43:48

multiple people and was acquitted.

43:51

In 1977 Kelly had

43:53

been arrested again, this time for attempted

43:55

murder of a man named Francis Taylor.

43:58

And this was once a crime. again

44:00

on the London Underground, but at a

44:02

different station to the previously mentioned Baker

44:04

Street where he claimed to have killed

44:07

Chrissy Smith. This time it was at

44:09

Tootenbet station, which is

44:11

a good-ass name for a train

44:13

station. So this

44:15

case was shockingly similar to what Kelly

44:17

said he had done to his friend

44:20

Chrissy Smith. So the two, Kieran Kelly

44:22

and Francis Taylor, had gone to the

44:24

station together and after having a few

44:26

fighting words with another, Kelly

44:28

had given Francis a shove onto the

44:30

tracks. Miraculously, Francis fell under

44:33

the incoming train and managed to stay

44:35

still long enough for the train to

44:37

pass over him, at which point he

44:39

climbed safely back up to the platform.

44:42

Absolutely completely doggone looked at it wasn't

44:44

turned into a red stain on the

44:46

tube that day. Kelly was

44:48

nabbed by the Popo, the Five-O,

44:50

not long after and charged with

44:52

attempted murder. Once again though,

44:54

however by the time this case came to

44:56

trial at the old Bailey, it had fallen

44:59

apart. Francis Taylor was completely

45:01

unreliable and there weren't any solid witnesses

45:03

or evidence to back up what had

45:05

happened. And without a confession, Kelly

45:08

was once again allowed to walk

45:10

free. Five years

45:12

after the Francis Taylor incident in

45:14

the London Underground in

45:17

1982, Kelly had done the same

45:19

thing again to a man named

45:21

Gordon McMurray, better known as

45:24

Jock. Kelly pushed

45:26

McMurray in front of an oncoming

45:28

train, this time at Oval Tube

45:31

Station. In a twist of

45:33

fate that no one could have predicted,

45:35

Jock also fell into the perfect place

45:37

for the train to go over him

45:39

and narrowly avoided becoming a piece of

45:41

contemporary street art. Kelly was once again

45:44

picked up by the police and

45:46

actually identified by Jake. Once

45:49

more authorities had an opportunity to

45:51

lock Kelly up for a long

45:54

stretch, but unfortunately for the hopeful

45:56

detectives, Jock didn't want to assist

45:58

the investigation any further. Whether it

46:00

was out of fear of being able to

46:02

rat on the streets or out of misplaced

46:05

loyalty, we will never know. But once again,

46:07

Kelly went free after committing a crime that

46:09

should have seen him get a life sentence.

46:11

You know what's funny? Jeff Platt gave Kelly

46:14

the name the London Underground Serial Killer, which

46:16

is like, that's the one way he couldn't

46:18

kill people. He tried. Yeah,

46:20

he tried all the time and couldn't do it.

46:22

They kept arriving. I

46:26

just, like, he just kept pushing and running off. He

46:28

never took around to figure it out. Yeah, yeah. He'll

46:30

hire the kind of people. I know, right?

46:33

Yeah. Like, it doesn't seem that hard. Another

46:36

of Kelly's victims that authorities could be quite

46:38

sure of, and, well, it was never recorded

46:40

as a murder at the time, was that

46:42

of Mickey Dunn. Kelly confessed

46:44

to killing Dunn in a pretty weird

46:46

way that broke from his usual give

46:49

him a shove method. Although

46:51

then again, the give him a shove method has

46:53

been 100% successful here, so probably try something

46:55

else. I need a pivot here, guys. Yeah,

46:58

exactly. Dunn, like

47:00

a lot of other transients and homeless people,

47:02

he was driven to substance abuse out of

47:04

desperation, with his poison of

47:07

choice being methylated spirits, which apparently

47:09

is a very common, far stronger

47:11

substitute for expensive alcohol-like vodka. I

47:14

mean, when the name is methylated spirits, it's

47:16

probably just pure alcohol or something like that.

47:18

Is it like white spirits or something? Probably.

47:20

Yeah, the shit I've been using here, that you're probably smelling

47:22

the fumes of, Keith, that I've been using to clean the

47:25

paint off of places and spills. I feel like I'm floating.

47:30

So, you know, with

47:32

a drink like that, it's not exactly

47:35

discerning. You could easily slip something into

47:37

this drink. Guess what?

47:39

That's exactly what Kelly did. He crushed

47:41

up a bunch of pills, so many

47:43

that he didn't even know what he

47:45

had put in, and passed them into

47:47

a tainted bottle given to Mickey Dunn.

47:50

Although, when I say given to Mickey

47:52

Dunn, really what Kelly did was he

47:54

just poured the bottle of the spirit

47:57

down Dunn's throat. So needless to

47:59

say, there was no... more Mickey Dunn after that.

48:02

Mickey Dunn he was actually one of the

48:04

men that gave evidence against Kelly for Edward

48:06

Toll. Oh really? The

48:08

murder in the graveyard, yeah. So this was like pure revenge. Mm

48:10

hmm. And it was a slow and

48:12

painful death as well that Mickey Dunn endured. During

48:14

the confessions Kelly he stayed with the police that

48:17

he had actually went drinking with Dunn on a

48:19

separate occasion after he poisoned him. So

48:21

he gave him the poison and then it obviously

48:23

didn't work straight away. Yeah. So

48:25

then a couple of days later he arrived drinking again and Dunn

48:27

he was complaining about a pain in his gut. Yeah. And

48:30

Kelly was like, oh I know what that is. But

48:32

what's interesting though is a medical expert from trendy

48:34

college in Dublin they did take a look at

48:37

the autopsy for Mickey Dunn and

48:39

they reckoned that it's not consistent with someone

48:41

who had been poisoned. So I

48:43

believe Kelly he fully intended to kill Dunn

48:45

but it may be in a similar situation

48:48

to what happened to Christie Smith where Kelly

48:50

poisoned him but he survived and then died

48:52

later due to complications of a life home

48:54

of excessive alcohol. Right. Yeah.

48:57

And then they took credit for it. But I

48:59

guess we'll never know for sure. Yeah. It

49:02

could be the drink he gave Mickey Dunn like

49:04

gave him 99.9% liver failure and then he

49:08

just had a few more beers and was

49:10

like, all right you're over. Exactly. Your liver

49:12

is cropping out. That's it. Like

49:15

it was someone from trendy college looking at the autopsy

49:17

now. Like these are all top reports from like the

49:19

1970s. Yeah. Yeah.

49:22

Yeah. So with Kelly another

49:24

murder he was confessing to DC Brown.

49:26

You know in this jail cell years

49:28

later that was when DC Brown

49:31

felt he had enough evidence to bring

49:33

charges in five murders. Higher

49:35

ups however thought otherwise. The

49:38

issue was Kelly's choice of victims being

49:40

other homeless people and vagrants. The so-called

49:42

last dead. We see that time again

49:44

with a lot of these cases that

49:46

you know even today that when killer

49:48

serial killers that target sex workers the

49:50

homeless and other marginalized groups. Well the

49:52

police and the authorities and all that

49:54

don't really look too hard. So

49:57

Kelly was convicted in 1984. of

50:00

the murder of William Boyd. I mean, they kinda gotta

50:02

get him on that one when it was the one

50:04

day he literally committed in a police station. The one

50:06

murder, so yeah, it's like, fair enough. And

50:09

also the manslaughter of Hector

50:11

Fischer, which was the robbery that police

50:13

thought was just really an accident, and

50:15

because he's not murdered, he still has

50:17

his money when, you know, Kelly had

50:19

actually killed him and taken all the

50:21

rest of his money. It

50:24

was those two convictions that

50:26

landed KPK a life

50:28

sentence. And it was all considered

50:30

another job well done by the

50:33

authorities. Now, looking into

50:35

Keira and Patrick Kelly is honestly

50:37

one of the most fascinating true

50:39

crime roller coasters anyone can experience.

50:41

The amount of misinformation, both accidental

50:43

and deliberate, Jesus, shuck it,

50:45

shuck it. Even Kelly's

50:48

own recorded confession has to be

50:50

considered as coming from the alcohol-tickled

50:52

brain of an already mentally disturbed

50:55

person. There's a bizarre irony in

50:57

that most of us would probably never have heard

50:59

of Kelly's name and the truth about his many

51:01

crimes, were it not for a

51:03

bullshit artist like Jeff Platt. And

51:05

yet, Kelly, you know, may

51:08

have also been equally as much of

51:10

a bullshitter. It's hard to

51:12

separate fact from fiction in this case. Personally, I

51:14

think that Kelly's errors are more down to misremembering

51:16

than trying to mislead. Jeff was just lying, where

51:18

Kelly, I don't think he knew what he had

51:21

done by the end of it by the time

51:23

he was caught. Yeah. Paul's

51:25

saga is very, it's very Patrick Bateman, you

51:27

know, from, uh... You like, you

51:29

listen to the news here from American Psycho, the idea

51:31

that... That Kelly was, in fact,

51:34

a psychopath, but maybe he imagined some of

51:36

his killings. He was mixing up

51:38

the facts with some, he's reading stories of

51:40

people's deaths in the newspapers and, you know,

51:43

put two and two together and was getting five.

51:46

As you said, maybe with the Christie Smith,

51:48

he did push a Christie Smith onto train

51:50

tracks, but he survived. And then he read,

51:52

years later, about a different Christie Smith. He

51:54

died, you know, he could have been getting

51:56

all these wires crossed. But overall,

51:59

KPK certainly... murdered multiple

52:01

people. But just how many

52:03

actually killed by pushing them onto the tracks

52:06

at tube stations is an uncertain mystery. In

52:08

fact, I'm not sure if there was any.

52:11

None that we really got into anyway. He

52:14

definitely did try to do it several times though, but

52:17

in each time we got to, the victims survived.

52:20

The victims that Kelly succeeded in killing

52:22

were either stabbed, strangled, or as in

52:24

the death of Mickey Dunn, poisoned, but

52:27

maybe not even Mickey Dunn. And

52:29

it's all thanks to Jeff Platt and

52:31

Kelly's own half remembered grandiose claims that

52:34

to most people, Kieran

52:36

Patrick Kelly is the London Underground

52:39

serial killer. Kieran

52:42

Kelly died while serving the life

52:44

sentence for Boyd and Fisher's murders

52:46

in H. M. P. Durham in

52:49

2001 at the

52:51

age of 71. Largely forgotten

52:53

and unknown. As, let's

52:56

be honest, he really should be.

53:20

But after the interrogations that

53:22

Kelly actually retracted all of his

53:24

confessions, including the one about the

53:27

man he killed in the cell. Yeah, really. The one

53:29

they knew he did. Yeah, he retracted it all

53:31

because all because the police, they wouldn't give him

53:33

back the ring that he stole from that guy.

53:36

He was just, he was all over the place. They were like, Oh, can

53:38

I get that ring back? And they were like, no. And then they were

53:41

like, he retracted. Well, I'm not being that and

53:43

then. He took it all back then. But there

53:45

was, there was also another possible murder where

53:47

an Irish woman may have been pushed onto

53:49

the train tracks on March 16th, 1970, which

53:51

may indicate Kelly

53:54

was not just targeting homeless people. So

53:56

her name was Kitty Kelly. No relation to

53:59

Kieran Kelly. But her death was ruled

54:01

as suicide, but her family never believed this

54:03

to be true. Kitty, she was a devout

54:05

Catholic woman, so suicide went, you know, completely

54:07

against her beliefs. And another strange

54:09

thing about the case was there was a

54:11

police statement taken by a family member who

54:13

had witnessed her jumping in front of the

54:16

train. The only thing was

54:18

all of Kitty's family were in Ireland. So

54:20

perhaps police, they took a statement from Kieran Kelly at

54:22

the time. And assumed he was family. Assumed he was

54:25

there because of the last name. We

54:27

know that he often ran away, but there was

54:29

a lot of examples where he

54:32

liked to hang around at the crime scene. The

54:35

only thing is when Kitty, when she was

54:37

pushed and killed by the train, this

54:39

was during the time that Kelly was in Broadmoor. But

54:42

the night that Kitty was killed was

54:44

also Kelly's 40th birthday. So perhaps

54:46

he was out on day release for his birthday. As

54:48

I said earlier, Broadmoor, they'd just get people a weekend

54:50

pass. So he might have just gone

54:52

out. Unfortunately, there's no records exist from Broadmoor to

54:54

say who he let out or how

54:57

they passed off. There's a lot

54:59

surrounding Kelly. The truth, we

55:01

just may never know for sure. He decided to

55:03

give himself a birthday present by murdering somebody else.

55:05

That was his favorite thing to do. And

55:08

as for good old Jeffy, Jeff Flatt,

55:11

hero coffee. I'm gonna be like,

55:13

Jeff Flatt caught fucking rocks. And

55:16

it's kind of hard to find more info on him. It

55:18

seems that after he released his book,

55:20

he kind of went to ground. Didn't

55:22

decide to release any more. And,

55:25

you know, I mean, he was a junior

55:27

officer at the time. As you said, he was

55:30

the one bringing Kelly to court. Probably

55:32

was not hearing confessions of

55:34

all these murders and stuff

55:36

like this. So, I

55:38

mean, some of his heroics are probably true.

55:41

But it seems like he just invented

55:43

them doesn't fold. And, you

55:45

know, as you said, if you have some heroics, you

55:47

really don't need to invent more. Like you did get

55:49

the accommodation for the case. It was for

55:51

bringing them to and from court. But you still got the

55:54

accommodation. Yeah. Yeah. And one

55:56

thing you mentioned, which actually you just want to bring up

55:58

is one of the most recent. and things we find

56:00

out that Jeff was when he was 60 years old

56:03

in 2015. Same year he

56:05

released the book he wrote on a weekend apparently. That

56:08

was when he was arrested, as you mentioned, for

56:10

hitting a young girl with his car in a

56:12

road rage incident. And he got six months in

56:14

jail. So from an article about

56:16

that incident though, it says he was a

56:18

police officer for 25 years. But

56:22

after suffering an injury, he had to leave

56:24

the force. And he was unable to get

56:26

another job despite applying for 700. If

56:30

you can believe that. I mean,

56:32

I can't, but that's what it says. His

56:34

marriage ended and his children later

56:37

became estranged from him. So

56:40

I mean, very good. That's probably what a life

56:42

of bullshitting will get you. As I

56:44

said, that article is from 2015, the same year

56:46

the book came out. Written by

56:49

Jeff Platt unmasking a serial killer

56:51

and a cover-up. Most certainly a serial

56:53

killer, no real cover-up. But

56:55

here's his bio right on a website called

56:58

library.com. This library is about with a Y.

57:01

So I'm gonna quote it because it's pretty good. I

57:03

am a retired Scotland Yard police

57:06

officer who worked with the world-famous

57:08

Flying Squad and anti-terrorist branch. I

57:11

am currently writing a book a

57:13

week on cases that I worked

57:15

on and some historical cases. I

57:17

hold a PhD from the University

57:19

of Edinburgh on sports science and

57:21

have recently submitted a second PhD

57:23

on creative and critical writing from

57:25

the University of East Anglia. I

57:28

am an ex-international shop putter,

57:30

discus drawer, weightlifter and powerlifter

57:32

and have competed at numerous

57:34

Highland gatherings and strongman events.

57:37

I officiated at two Canem 2

57:40

Olympic Games and six Commonwealth Games

57:42

and a hundred other events. My

57:45

size and strengths have been useful in many

57:48

of my cases. And

57:50

romantic pursuits. cannot

58:00

find a literary agent that's

58:02

literally how it ends with an explanation mark you

58:06

gotta wonder why how did not get the job like with

58:09

he's like he exaggerated a whole book his resume must

58:11

be an amazing I know I guess it's just too

58:13

good to be true you know to be honest he

58:15

should have stuck the fiction I've read some of the

58:17

books good well

58:20

folks there you go we would highly recommend

58:22

if you want to hear more of this case

58:24

listen to the nobody's own podcast or just

58:26

get Jeff's book he probably needs the money thank

58:30

you so much for listening it means a

58:32

lot to me and Keith that you tuned

58:34

in once again listen

58:36

as always please check out we released a new episode

58:38

of the that chapter podcast every

58:40

Monday morning so give it

58:42

a goo and also check out the regular that

58:45

chapter videos on YouTube on every

58:47

Tuesday so check that it too

58:49

but yeah listen today

58:53

alright and it just

58:55

kind of sort of

58:57

end I don't music

58:59

place okay yeah hey

59:01

I couldn't end it without that alright I'll

59:03

put the rest in this there we go

59:12

sorry I'm just trying to read what I wrote and I'm

59:14

like wait I know it what did I write I have

59:16

a stroke when I wrote this he

59:18

fumes yeah I know I think I'm having in this

59:20

room when I wrote this