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are milk expiration date detectives. on

10:00

the shape of the box via shipping and George

10:02

just basically took it out and said, well, this

10:04

is for the challenge. And if you don't know

10:06

what I'm talking about, I invite you to seek

10:09

this image out. See, I didn't realize that that's

10:11

what had happened. I thought he maybe like George's

10:13

just had this square-ish wig and then just thought

10:15

maybe, oh, this would be perfect for a comedy

10:18

challenge. I didn't realize it just took on the

10:20

shape of the box. No, it took on the

10:22

shape of the box. That's good. Like people say

10:24

that your butt does if you sit in an

10:27

office chair too long. Right. It's like

10:29

a fish growing to the size of its bowl. Sure.

10:31

But yeah, no, it was great. I enjoyed

10:34

it. And I mean, George just is such

10:36

a drag queen. You know what

10:38

I mean? So they were just like, this is the gag.

10:40

Yeah. I love it. Anyway, that was my high point. All

10:42

right. Well, my high point, well, here's

10:45

the thing. RuPaul slapping everybody at the end of the

10:47

challenge. I will say that was very fun. Yes. And

10:50

very funny. Yes. My true

10:52

high point, however, was Roxy Andrews

10:54

look on the runway. So they

10:56

had like a black widow kind

10:58

of runaway. Widow weep for me

11:00

was the category. Yeah. So

11:02

a lot of people came out in these sort of like

11:04

wedding dresses. And there's a

11:06

lot of like typical widow stuff, like black widow. Were

11:08

you gonna say wedding geesh? No,

11:10

I wasn't. I don't know what I was

11:13

gonna say. But anyway, Roxy Andrews, I think,

11:15

did this challenge really, really well because she

11:17

came out in this beautiful wedding dress and

11:19

then turned around and had blood splatter all

11:22

over her. Blood splatter that was rhinestone. And

11:25

I just thought it was so fierce. I

11:27

really liked it. Any opportunity for rhinestone blood,

11:29

I will take, thank you. Yeah,

11:32

it was great. I also really enjoyed

11:34

Plastique's interpretation. Oh yeah, that

11:36

was really good. Not going full haunted mansion.

11:38

I think it was good. But kudos to

11:41

Nina for going full haunted mansion because I

11:43

think it was effective. Oh yeah, actually. And

11:45

Chanel's runway, the opulence. It was gorgeous. It

11:47

was great. This was a good runway. So

11:49

that was an utter high point for the

11:51

episode and almost made up for the Busted

11:53

Ass Challenge. It's true. Oh, and then they

11:55

got two lip syncs. to Love Her Group

11:57

by Tina Marina. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

12:00

yeah, we love that. And the episode was

12:02

called Meeting in the Ladies Room. Yeah. I

12:04

love a climax reference. There was a lot

12:06

of good things in here, but the challenge

12:08

was just so long and dragged on. That

12:10

was really the biggest issue. Yeah, it should

12:12

have just been a big group acting challenge

12:14

if you had to do it that way.

12:17

Absolutely, it would have been much better. Let

12:19

everyone's character be inspired by those people, sure,

12:21

but just do it in a group. Yes.

12:23

Not this huge, long slog. Yeah. Anyway,

12:25

let us know what your feelings are. Let

12:28

us know if you think that the winner

12:30

of the season has changed, because I know

12:32

some people have different opinions now that we're

12:34

past the halfway point. Yeah. Yeah, fill us

12:36

in. Let us know. Please do. But anyway,

12:39

do you want to move on? Let's move

12:41

on. Beautiful. I have a piece of spooky

12:43

gay bullshit that I'd like to share. Just

12:45

a little tiny morsel of spooky gay bullshit,

12:48

but this is pretty wild, so we just

12:50

have to talk about it for a second.

12:52

Okay. So this is some news that comes

12:54

from South Carolina. And in South Carolina, there

12:56

was a man and he was hiking through

12:59

the woods doing his thing. Listen, who

13:01

doesn't love a little woodsy walk? Sure. It's very

13:03

nice. It's nice to spend some time in nature.

13:06

However, the woods can be very unpredictable

13:08

at times, and sometimes you can find

13:10

some rather strange things in the woods.

13:12

Have you ever found anything strange in the woods? I

13:15

once found a shirt that I lost the week prior

13:17

when walking through the woods. It was

13:19

all like a touristy kind of trail. Oh, okay. In

13:22

Newfoundland. Yeah. And yeah, I just there was

13:24

like this spot where you kind of come

13:26

out of a Hobbit hole

13:28

of trees onto like the shoreline and

13:30

it's nice and open and it turns out

13:33

I had a long sleeve

13:35

button-down shirt around my waist as I was hiking.

13:37

It fell off and somebody must have found it

13:39

and a week later I came out to the

13:41

clearing and just like on the first little tree

13:44

there was my shirt. Oh, that's actually a very

13:46

nice thing. Although it could be creepy because if

13:48

they don't know what they did with the shirt.

13:51

You're right. Yeah. I

13:54

haven't really experienced anything incredibly creepy in

13:56

the woods. However, I did have a

13:58

friend who once. upon a

14:00

dead owl that had been mutilated and hanging

14:02

from a tree. A wire was

14:05

like threaded through its eye sockets. So this was definitely

14:07

like a human that had done this. What in the

14:09

folk horror? Right? I don't like that. Yeah. It was

14:11

when he was going out to get his weed plants

14:13

and then his weed plants were stolen. So then what

14:15

is like, was it some sort of like threat?

14:18

I'm seeing that connection. Yeah. Anyway,

14:22

this man in South Carolina

14:24

also found something rather harrowing

14:26

in the woods. Okay. He

14:29

found bones. Ooh. Now the

14:31

woods, let's be real,

14:33

is littered with bones because animals are eating

14:35

animals all the time. It's the circle of

14:37

life. Yeah. So we talking like leftover bones?

14:39

Well, like we're on a spooky podcast. I'm

14:42

just assuming human remains. Exactly. So yeah, these

14:44

weren't the bones of an animal. These were

14:46

the bones of a human being. Now, when

14:49

you find human bones lying around out there

14:51

in the world, the best thing for you

14:53

to do is to call

14:55

the authorities so that the authorities can

14:57

come to the bones and kind of

15:00

check out the situation. Yeah. I feel

15:02

like if I were to come across

15:04

the situation, I would just start googling

15:06

like who takes the

15:08

human bones. Exactly. Yeah. However, this

15:10

man did not do that. Instead,

15:12

he picked up the bones, like

15:15

he collected them and

15:17

then he took them to a

15:19

good will. Yikes. Now,

15:21

I don't know what brought him to

15:23

the good will. He wasn't

15:25

there to like donate them or like try to

15:28

get them appraised or something. Okay. He happened to

15:30

go by the good will. He found a cardboard

15:32

box outside of the donation bin.

15:35

Yeah. He put the bones in

15:37

the cardboard box and then he

15:39

took the bones to the police.

15:41

But like, I don't really know

15:43

what the logic is here. Yeah.

15:45

No, let me do my iconic

15:48

Marge Simpson. Exactly.

15:50

Yeah. Yeah. I don't like that. So anyway, when

15:52

this man brought the bones to the police, the

15:55

police obviously asked to be taken to the site

15:57

where the bones had been collected. The man was

15:59

able to do that. and the coroner was able

16:01

to join them. And they ended up finding, from

16:03

what I understand, other bones,

16:05

human remains in the area, which

16:08

they've then assessed and collected. And

16:11

as of right now, we don't really know

16:13

who the bones belong to, but they are

16:15

hoping to be able to test the bones

16:17

to find out the identity of the person,

16:20

but also maybe hopefully determine what had happened.

16:22

But bitch, never take human remains to a

16:24

second location. No, because here's the thing. If

16:26

this was a crime scene or is a

16:29

crime scene, then you could have been tampering

16:31

with some stuff here. So

16:33

it's not even just like me, you're like, I'm gonna

16:35

save them a step. And

16:38

I'm gonna bring the bones to them. You're not

16:40

really helping out in this situation, but I mean,

16:42

not everybody is a spooky bitch. Not everybody necessarily

16:44

knows what to do when they stumble upon bones.

16:46

I guess some people just are like, well, I'll

16:48

take it to the Goodwill. I suppose they'll know

16:50

what to do. Like Goodwill

16:53

community center spiritual hub. Right?

16:56

Yeah, I mean, they're good for a reason, I

16:58

suppose. Just go for guidance

17:00

at the Goodwill. Exactly. But anyway, like

17:02

I said, the bones will be tested. It might take several

17:05

months before they are able to come

17:07

up with any kind of information as to who

17:09

they are, what had happened, but I'll definitely try

17:11

to keep my eye on this one because this

17:13

one is very interesting.

17:16

But with that being said, that's all the news I

17:18

have. And I wanna thank my source, wrdw.com.

17:23

For the article, South Carolina Hiker

17:26

Finds Human Bones takes them to

17:28

a Goodwill donation box, which is

17:31

somewhat of a misleading title. Yeah, absolutely. It's

17:33

not completely not true, but it's also not

17:35

true. Yeah, like, sorry, WRDW,

17:38

Arthur's little sister, the journalist, you

17:40

should probably get your shit together.

17:43

Maybe. But anyway, this article

17:45

is written by staff and it was published on

17:47

June 24th, 2024. All

17:49

right, well, thank you, Tyler. Yeah, you're welcome.

17:51

Now, do you have any housekeeping or oopsie-poopsies

17:54

that you wanna talk about before we get

17:56

into it? Because I will say not to

17:58

make you nervous or insecure or anything. but

18:00

I've got nothing. Okay, she's perfect. She's

18:02

beautiful, she looks like Linda. Angel used

18:04

to, yes, the people already know. All

18:06

right, well. I smell lovely. Same, honestly,

18:08

I don't know how I'm smelling today.

18:10

I think I'm smelling okay though. Can

18:12

confirm you smell just lovely.

18:14

Okay, good. I do have

18:16

some housekeeping, however. So Pride

18:19

Month is coming to an end. If you're listening

18:21

to this, when it's released

18:23

to the masses, it's been

18:25

ended. However, we are going

18:27

to be keeping our Pride

18:30

Forever fundraiser rolling a little

18:32

bit into July. So

18:34

up until July 15th, we'll still

18:36

be collecting donations for Rainbow Railroad.

18:38

That's the end of the day,

18:41

Monday, July 15th. So

18:43

when it becomes Tuesday, the 16th Eastern

18:45

Standard Time, it's over, honey. That's

18:47

it, it's done. We're done collecting. Yeah, the

18:49

Pride merch will go away for the year.

18:51

Our regular merch will still be there, but

18:54

we won't be raising any more donations. However,

18:56

we have raised almost $5,000 already, which

18:59

is amazing. Especially in this economy, girl.

19:01

That's it, that's still like half the

19:03

amount that they need to get somebody

19:05

to safety. So we're like super stoked

19:07

and we really appreciate everybody for

19:10

supporting the fundraiser, but we figured why not

19:12

let it go on a little bit longer

19:14

and try to raise a little bit more

19:16

money. Totally, and there are flags, there are

19:19

bucket hats, there are mugs, there's a whole

19:21

bunch of different stuff that you can show

19:23

your support with. Also, there is an option

19:25

to put an extra donation on there. Again,

19:27

all proceeds that come our way after bonfires,

19:29

production costs and stuff like that, as well

19:32

as 100% of all the donations that

19:35

will be going to Rainbow Railroad. And

19:38

yeah, we'll let you know the number when

19:40

it's all said and done, but it's really

19:42

great. We've talked about what they do before.

19:44

If you don't know, check them out. But

19:47

I'm so excited to see exactly what it is.

19:50

I don't know. Me too. with

19:52

ourselves or anything like that. No, but it's money

19:54

for a very good cause. Just always reaching for

19:57

that rainbow. That's it. You know?

19:59

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more details. a

26:00

little bit of a swish in some parts

26:02

where it starts to veer east or west.

26:05

But it kind of has its beginnings up

26:07

around the border of Scotland. And then it

26:10

kind of dips into like the Midlands region

26:12

of England. If you have a map near

26:14

you, you got one hand on

26:16

the map and then the other hand. Dot

26:18

dot. No,

26:21

I don't know. You

26:23

don't have map time. Map time. That's just

26:25

me. Okay. Well, for

26:29

anybody out there that has a map nearby,

26:31

that's where it is. Okay. To

26:34

get it further in your mind's eye, if

26:36

you're not doing map time like the rest

26:38

of us, normal adjusted human beings, it's a

26:40

big divided affair with multiple lanes on either

26:42

side, which can see well over 100,000 drivers

26:45

daily at some of its busiest

26:47

points. I mean, yeah, 300 kilometers.

26:50

That is very fucking long. Yeah,

26:53

absolutely. And therefore it dips in

26:55

and out of a lot of

26:57

different communities and the hustle and

26:59

the bustle can be rather formidable.

27:02

Now, I say all of that because zooming

27:04

in on our case on Saturday, May 17th,

27:06

2008, everything

27:09

more or less started off when

27:11

staff that were watching the CCTV

27:14

cameras that cover the M6 noticed

27:17

two women walking along the center

27:19

meridian, like the divider of the

27:21

highway. Oh my gosh. Around the

27:23

exit at the town of Keel.

27:25

Now, these people were watching the

27:27

cameras from an office in Birmingham.

27:30

They're just like the people that kind of

27:33

watch the highway in case there's a crash

27:35

and they need to send emergency services out

27:37

there. Yeah. This was even more of a

27:39

necessity before everybody had cell phones, kind

27:42

of, not that it's a guarantee these days, but

27:44

chances are. No, but it makes sense. Yeah. You

27:46

also have to alert the public if there happens

27:48

to be an accident on the highway that shut

27:51

things down. Yeah. Or if like an animal gets

27:53

out on the highway or if two blonde women

27:55

are walking down the middle of it, that part

27:57

because one does simply not just end up. that

52:00

she'd been smoking from all night. But then

52:02

before they lit them, she takes them back,

52:04

like snatches them out of her mouth, claims

52:06

that she had reason to believe that they

52:08

were poison. Oh no. She'd

52:11

been smoking them all night though. Oh no.

52:13

So anyway, the men just didn't question it.

52:15

They were just keeping things low key and

52:17

on the level. They just were like, okay,

52:19

we'll round out the night without issue. Glenn

52:21

the whole time was like, she's eccentric. And

52:23

Peter was like, well, I don't live here.

52:26

She'd been smoking them all night though. Oh no.

52:28

So as long as I'm able to make sure that

52:31

things are copacetic, I'm cool. So

52:33

essentially Sabina ends up staying the night

52:35

after Peter leaves and it plays out

52:37

without issue. The

52:40

following morning, there's also nothing that much to

52:42

report on. Glenn ends up reaching

52:44

out to Peter. And Peter is like,

52:46

well, I don't live here. So I'm not going to

52:48

be able to make sure that things are copacetic. I'm

52:51

cool. So essentially Sabina ends

52:53

up staying the night after Peter leaves and

52:55

it plays out without issue. And

52:58

then he ends up reaching out to his

53:00

brother Paul who does work at a local

53:02

hospital at around noon, just

53:04

to see if he could assist in tracking

53:07

down his guest's sister. He explained that she

53:09

had been in an accident on the M6

53:11

motorway the day prior and that he was

53:13

looking or that she was looking for her

53:15

sister. So Paul agreed to do

53:17

so. And he told his brother Glenn that he

53:19

would call him back later. So nothing

53:22

really pops up on the timeline

53:24

again until a little after dinner

53:26

time. So 7 40

53:29

PM while cooking a late supper,

53:31

Glenn ends up leaving his apartment

53:33

just to run to his neighbor's

53:35

place to grab some tea bags.

53:37

Now his neighbor Frank Booth is

53:39

outside washing his vehicle at the

53:42

time. So he ends up

53:44

seeing Glenn and Glenn explains that he's

53:46

got, you know, company over, doesn't have

53:48

enough tea for the situation. So Frank

53:50

is just being a good neighbor, lens

53:52

Glenn the tea and then goes back

53:54

to washing his car. But

53:56

then a minute later,

53:58

according to... Frank, the

54:00

neighbor, Glenn comes back

54:02

out of his home,

54:04

this time invisible distress,

54:07

gushing blood from some sort of

54:09

wound. He says,

54:11

she stabbed me, and

54:13

then he falls to the ground.

54:15

The last thing that Glenn said

54:18

to Frank before dying right there

54:20

from the stab wound. Oh my

54:22

god. Was he asked Frank

54:24

to watch his dog. What? No!

54:28

Right? According to Frank in

54:30

this documentary that I'll show that later.

54:33

But Frank is horrified. He knows that

54:35

Glenn has a guest over. He's assuming

54:37

that this person is probably responsible. So

54:41

just in the shock, he calls the

54:43

police and meanwhile back home Sabina, knowing

54:45

exactly what's going on, runs the fuck

54:47

at a Glenn's home and is trying

54:50

to make a break for it. What

54:52

the fuck? Yes. And he

54:54

doesn't know this because she was caught

54:56

on CCTV running away holding a

54:58

hammer. Looking for a highway. Well,

55:02

I don't know if she was looking for a

55:04

highway, but she definitely was up to some ship

55:06

with that hammer because she was found by a

55:09

man named Joshua Grottage hitting herself

55:11

in the head with the hammer running

55:13

away. No, what? Yeah. So

55:15

he sees this woman running down the road

55:17

covered in blood, hitting herself in the head

55:20

with a hammer. And so Josh gets out

55:22

of his passing vehicle to subdue her and

55:24

at least so she didn't do any damage

55:26

to herself. And

55:28

during this scuffle Sabina

55:31

pulls a roof tile out of

55:33

her back pocket, knocks Josh out

55:35

temporarily. He survived. But

55:38

from there, she runs away. She's

55:40

apprehended by paramedics at this point, though,

55:42

because one does not simply cause all

55:45

this conflama and then just retreat into

55:47

the afternoon. So

55:49

anyway, according to Joshua, he

55:52

sees her being chased by

55:54

like paramedic emergency staff across

55:56

a roundabout. So he was just like, okay, my

55:59

chapter is done. This is gonna be taken

56:01

care of so this

56:03

leads them to an overpass over

56:05

the a 50 highway in Heron

56:08

cross and from there Sabina

56:11

jumped and I'm not just

56:13

talking like she jumped in median. She jumped

56:15

an overpass So she went

56:17

over that fucking railing and went down

56:19

40 feet onto a highway

56:21

below Oh my gosh. Thankfully

56:23

she did not hit a motorist She

56:26

did survive but broke both ankles and

56:28

fractured her skull in the process now

56:33

Like yeah, let that sink in. This

56:35

is just Bananas.

56:37

Yeah, like this sounds like some like extraordinary

56:39

piece of fiction. And where'd she find the

56:41

roof tile? Well, that's the other question. Like

56:44

did she crawl up onto a roof and

56:46

grab it? She's maybe just picked it up

56:48

off the sidewalk who fucking knows women's pants

56:50

notoriously don't have great pockets But she was

56:52

able to hide that roof. I mean Pants

56:56

and like we must be talking like a ceramic

56:58

roof tile, right? Because one of those little ash

57:00

faulty ones ain't going to shit No, yeah, I

57:02

would imagine it was something nice and hearty Anyway,

57:06

like I said, she broke both ankles

57:08

and fractured her skull. So at this

57:10

point Sabina wasn't going anywhere She

57:13

was finally apprehended and taken in for

57:15

medical assistance as well as you know

57:17

The whole murder thing because Glenn Holland's

57:20

head was in fact dead. He had

57:22

been stabbed five times Wow So

57:25

Sabina was taken in for care at

57:27

the University Hospital of North Staffordshire where

57:29

she was officially arrested for the murder

57:32

of Glenn Holland's head on the on

57:35

the 6th of June in 2008 While

57:38

they didn't have the exact play-by-play they just

57:41

kind of were able to take in by

57:43

context clues that it was probably her Yeah,

57:46

yeah, unless yeah, unless it was the dog and

57:48

I don't think so Exactly.

57:50

So in September of 2008 Ursula

57:53

would end up getting released from the hospital

57:55

after they were done attending to her injuries

57:57

and ultimately

57:59

she was able to go back to US. Again,

58:02

that was Ursula, the one who didn't kill. Yeah.

58:04

Yeah, Ursula, so like Ursula was just kind of

58:06

like, okay, sis, remember how I told you I

58:08

would let you know when Ursula pops back in?

58:11

Yeah, so she doesn't come back into the

58:13

timeline until like well after this guy's dead.

58:15

And then she's just like, fuck this shit,

58:17

I'm out. Yeah, exactly, she went back to

58:19

her home in the US. Yeah, she's like,

58:21

I'm gonna go get a Slurpee. She's

58:24

earned a Slurpee and a menthol at

58:26

this point. So anyway, that same month

58:28

Sabina was taken in for care. Actually,

58:31

no, I mean the other C word, custody, she

58:33

was taken out of care, put into custody, and

58:36

then she would wait trial, which was

58:38

set to take place in February 2009.

58:41

However, it ended up getting

58:43

moved to September of 2009 because

58:46

they were having a hard time getting like

58:49

all of her records from Sweden. There

58:51

was like a whole complication there. Well,

58:53

yeah, this would be a very complicated

58:55

case, I imagine. So

58:57

during this waiting time that they

59:00

had while Sabina was still in

59:02

custody, she would be examined

59:04

by psychologists for both the defense and

59:06

the prosecution of the trial. And

59:09

both of them would come to the

59:11

belief that Sabina had been experiencing some

59:13

sort of temporary insanity at the time

59:16

of the crime. Yeah. But

59:18

outside of that, like now at

59:20

the time of, apprehension

59:22

prosecution, she seemed to not be experiencing

59:24

that. So again, this is why they

59:27

were like, this is some sort of

59:29

temporary insanity. She's stable, quote unquote, at

59:31

all other times. This brings

59:33

us to the main theory that folks have

59:35

about what was going on with the twins.

59:37

And this is probably a term that some

59:40

of you are at least acquainted with from

59:42

this podcast and maybe others, but it's folly

59:44

adieu, or shared psychosis,

59:46

or induced delusional

59:49

disorder. Now, this

59:51

is when one person experiences an

59:53

episode, a psychotic or something of

59:55

that sort, and then another person

59:57

who's often like very close to

59:59

person, A ends up

1:00:01

reflecting the person A's behavior. So

1:00:04

person B isn't afflicted with the

1:00:06

same thing as person A, but

1:00:08

due to their closeness, they

1:00:11

start reflecting person A's

1:00:14

symptoms, if you wanna call it that. So this

1:00:16

would be like the case of the Pat Penn

1:00:19

sisters that I've covered before, or like the Parker

1:00:21

Hume murders, which you covered. That's another case that

1:00:23

people point to as one of potential folio do.

1:00:25

So then, is Ursula

1:00:28

to blame for that then? Well, that's

1:00:30

kind of what they're saying. Like in

1:00:32

this case, they believe that Sabina would

1:00:34

have then been the secondary sufferer. It's

1:00:38

a disorder that is sometimes said to

1:00:40

affect twins, such as in this case,

1:00:42

where it can be like triggered by

1:00:44

stress, as well as isolation among a

1:00:46

number of other contributing triggers as well.

1:00:49

But obviously like by the footage that

1:00:51

was available from the incident, there was

1:00:54

some sort of delusion going on. So

1:00:56

this is the theory that they were

1:00:58

able to craft based on what they

1:01:00

could see. Right, because there was that

1:01:02

comment that was made on the highway

1:01:04

about like harvesting organs. They're gonna take

1:01:06

your organs, so like what's that all

1:01:08

about? Not recognizing police, all that kind

1:01:10

of stuff. Yeah, so some have like

1:01:13

pointed to that as the

1:01:15

explanation for it all. In fact, like a

1:01:17

lot of people just accepted. Other people have

1:01:19

positive theory that maybe somebody had been chasing

1:01:21

them, although there really is like very little

1:01:24

to no proof to support that theory. Although

1:01:26

they're darting away from danger does indicate that

1:01:28

something could have been going on, or they

1:01:31

could have perceived that they were being chased.

1:01:33

But honestly, it was very

1:01:36

up in the air. So the

1:01:38

case would not last long in

1:01:40

trial. Sabina actually pled

1:01:42

guilty to manslaughter with diminished responsibility

1:01:44

on the September 2nd of 2009.

1:01:49

And this ended up being good enough, well,

1:01:52

quote unquote, good enough for

1:01:54

the powers that be, because this meant that

1:01:56

no murder trial would go forward. That did

1:01:58

mean less trauma for the family. families of

1:02:00

the impacted, like of the lost, but also

1:02:02

it means that less details are out there

1:02:05

as to what exactly the fuck was going

1:02:07

on. Oh, that's right. But like also for

1:02:10

the family, I feel like that would also

1:02:12

be very frustrating because that kind of maybe

1:02:14

deprives you of answers and that sense of

1:02:17

justice as well. Yeah. This

1:02:19

is a very, very gray

1:02:21

situation. Yeah. And you

1:02:23

know, it's at a time where they know

1:02:25

stuff about mental health, but it's definitely not

1:02:27

where even we are today, which is still

1:02:30

not perfect by any means. So anyway, this

1:02:32

was even further complicated by the fact that

1:02:34

when asked about like the who, what, where,

1:02:36

when, why, how, as much as possible, Sabina

1:02:38

would just say no comment. Like

1:02:41

she just wasn't able to really offer up much.

1:02:43

And that just kind of led to

1:02:46

the push of like, okay, well, temporary

1:02:48

insanity. She just, she can't recall. It's

1:02:50

like, you can't explain the unexplainable basically.

1:02:52

Exactly. Anyway, this leads us to

1:02:55

sentencing and I'm going to

1:02:57

be honest, just get ready for a piss off some of

1:02:59

you because due to the

1:03:01

episode of insanity considered to be

1:03:03

brought on from Folly Adoo, Sabina

1:03:05

was deemed mentally healthy in her

1:03:08

current state. So she

1:03:10

only received five years

1:03:12

of prison for manslaughter,

1:03:14

AKA murder. She got

1:03:17

one year of prison for every time

1:03:19

she stabbed Glenn Holland's head. And

1:03:22

even the judge expressed discomfort with

1:03:24

this outcome. Like he stated that

1:03:26

his hands were more or less

1:03:28

legally tied. And he said that

1:03:30

the outcome was not meant to

1:03:32

reflect like the loss that the

1:03:34

family is going to experience.

1:03:36

Of course not. The loss of

1:03:38

life. Like even he was just

1:03:40

like, this unfortunately is not able,

1:03:42

like legally is not able to

1:03:44

reflect like what you've done to

1:03:46

this family. We have to deal

1:03:49

with this other stuff. But we

1:03:51

also have to consider the fact

1:03:53

that these two women were in

1:03:55

police custody and then released from

1:03:57

police custody when they probably shouldn't

1:03:59

have been. There probably should have

1:04:01

been a little bit more monitoring

1:04:03

happening in the aftermath of that

1:04:05

initial event on the highway because

1:04:07

that is an extreme circumstance and

1:04:09

from the information here it doesn't

1:04:11

sound like it was given the

1:04:14

proper amount of attention. No, exactly

1:04:17

and I guess I'll skip ahead

1:04:19

about six points because let me

1:04:21

tell you about something that popped up in 2012.

1:04:25

On YouTube in 2012 after

1:04:28

the BBC documentary aired

1:04:30

about this whole case and it

1:04:32

gained a lot of attention, there

1:04:34

was a clip that was edited

1:04:36

out of the documentary that was

1:04:39

captured showing cops at the site

1:04:41

of the initial M6 motorway incident

1:04:43

questioning whether or not Sabina should

1:04:45

be taken in on the grounds

1:04:47

of mental health. They

1:04:49

then decide against it. On camera

1:04:51

they're just like, no

1:04:54

this isn't a mental health thing. What? Because

1:04:56

they thought it was drugs or something else. But

1:04:59

then they tested for drugs and it wasn't drugs. So

1:05:02

she went free. They questioned whether or

1:05:04

not they should hold her for mental

1:05:06

evaluation so basically like even if you

1:05:08

do get let off in a day

1:05:10

for like the legal stuff like we

1:05:12

still want to chat with you, they

1:05:15

were like should we? And then they

1:05:17

didn't. They like very clearly decided against

1:05:19

it. That is wild and that to

1:05:21

me is the decision that cost this

1:05:23

man his life. Yeah Glenn Holland's head

1:05:25

was killed a day later and a

1:05:27

lot of people believe that there may

1:05:30

be quote unquote allegedly allegedly a

1:05:32

little bit of a cover up going on as

1:05:34

a result of that. Oh God. Because

1:05:37

I guess this footage was also like footage

1:05:39

that the police owned so they could probably

1:05:41

comb it, crop it, edit it. Oh my

1:05:43

gosh. It's sketchy as fuck and it's left

1:05:45

a lot of people unhappy because they're just

1:05:47

like it doesn't seem like enough was done

1:05:50

at the time. Like folks

1:05:52

have tons of questions up to this

1:05:54

day. And of course this case went

1:05:56

super public. It was super high visibility

1:05:58

in the media. It was one

1:06:01

of the very few cases where somebody was like

1:06:03

considered mentally ill at the time of a crime, but

1:06:05

not at the time of a trial. And

1:06:08

like with Folly Ado being the main theory floating

1:06:10

around, like it of course just caught a lot

1:06:12

of people's attention. And

1:06:15

like I said, you know, like

1:06:17

people were wondering why Sabina was

1:06:19

like released so quickly

1:06:21

afterward. And essentially

1:06:23

like the case goes down in 2009, as I

1:06:26

was saying in the courts in 2010, the

1:06:28

BBC documentary comes out. That's

1:06:30

when all this public discourse pops up. So

1:06:32

then it takes about two years for that

1:06:34

video footage to come up on YouTube. And

1:06:37

that just, of course, deep into the

1:06:39

discourse. Yeah, but then it's too little too late,

1:06:41

you know, it's done. It's in the

1:06:43

books. It's, it's, it's yeah, it's a little

1:06:45

bit more than a communication breakdown. I

1:06:48

yeah. Yeah. And all

1:06:50

in all, the sisters have

1:06:52

gone on to lead private lives. Like Ursula

1:06:54

went back to the US. She's

1:06:57

thought to be living in Washington and Sabina

1:07:00

ended up getting released for parole

1:07:02

or on parole in 2011

1:07:05

after serving, you know, her

1:07:08

sentence years maybe. Yeah.

1:07:10

Not even half. It doesn't seem like it.

1:07:12

Yeah, really. I mean, I think they also

1:07:15

considered time served. But anyway, she ended up

1:07:17

going back to Sweden rather quietly. Right. Like

1:07:19

I don't even have information, solid information on

1:07:22

like when she was released just because it

1:07:24

seemed to just happen quietly

1:07:26

in the background. Yeah. So they're out

1:07:28

there in the world. And

1:07:32

hi, if you're listening. Hi. Hope

1:07:34

you're not listening, honestly. Yeah,

1:07:37

this is this situation is

1:07:39

very frustrating because it's really

1:07:41

hard to place blame on

1:07:43

one single person, one single

1:07:45

entity. There's so much happening

1:07:47

here. And like, I don't

1:07:49

even know how I feel about it.

1:07:51

Yeah. At the end

1:07:53

of this. I mean, that's kind of

1:07:55

that is how the story ends.

1:07:57

There is no happy ending. This is real life.

1:07:59

And unfortunately that's how it is. So

1:08:02

I mean, let us know folks out there listening what

1:08:04

your thoughts, feelings, opinions are. But yeah,

1:08:06

I mean, I guess this just isn't one to

1:08:09

wrap up in a nice little clean bow. It

1:08:11

can't. It sucks. So

1:08:14

rest in power to Glenn Holland's head and

1:08:16

my heart goes out to his family and

1:08:18

loved ones of course. And

1:08:21

Peter Malloy who I believe had some survivor's

1:08:23

guilt because he probably felt like he left

1:08:25

his friend with the person that killed him.

1:08:28

So I'm fucking sorry

1:08:30

to all the people involved. It sucks. But

1:08:33

with that being said, that is the

1:08:35

case of the Erickson twins as well

1:08:37

as the murder of Glenn Holland's head.

1:08:40

So I just wanna thank my sources.

1:08:43

Thank you to the aforementioned BBC documentary called

1:08:45

madness in the fast lane, which aired on

1:08:48

November 18th of 2010 and

1:08:50

committed the sin of ending

1:08:53

the documentary with the song, where

1:08:55

is my mind by the pixies. Oh

1:08:57

no. That's tired. Oh no. Thank

1:08:59

you to the YouTube user coverup

1:09:01

exposed for the video, the edited

1:09:03

out evidence from BBC madness in

1:09:05

the fast lane documentary published on

1:09:07

November 15th of 2012. Thank

1:09:10

you to the Irish independent for woman sentenced

1:09:13

or woman sentenced for a stab killing published

1:09:15

on November 25th of 2009. Thank

1:09:18

you to Vice for the twins who ran into

1:09:20

traffic before stabbing a man to death published by

1:09:23

James McNan on September 14th,

1:09:25

2018. Thank

1:09:27

you to Wales online for the story of

1:09:29

Sabina and Ursula Erickson, the identical twins who

1:09:31

caused chaos on M6 before one went on

1:09:33

to kill published by Haley Parker and Carrie

1:09:35

David on September 16th of 2021. Thank

1:09:38

you to the daily mail for a woman locked

1:09:41

up for making mad dash across M6 stab stranger

1:09:43

to death the day after she was released from

1:09:45

jail published by David Wilkes on September 3rd, 2009.

1:09:49

And finally, thank you to BBC

1:09:51

news for the following three articles,

1:09:53

motorway dash woman stabbed man published

1:09:55

on September 2nd, 2009 killer

1:09:58

had psychiatric disorder. published on November 25th of

1:10:00

2009, and

1:10:02

finally, M6-Woman-Jailed-Over-Killing, published on November

1:10:05

26th of 2009. All

1:10:09

right, that's a rough one.

1:10:11

Yep, you're welcome. Thank

1:10:14

you. I'm

1:10:17

Afua Hash. I'm Peter Frankippen. And in our

1:10:19

series Legacy, we look at the lives of

1:10:21

some of the most famous people to have

1:10:23

ever lived, and ask if they have the

1:10:26

reputation they deserve. In this

1:10:28

series, we look at J. Edgar

1:10:30

Hoover. He was the director of

1:10:32

the FBI for half a century.

1:10:34

An immensely powerful political figure, he

1:10:36

was said to know everything about

1:10:38

everyone. He held the ear

1:10:40

of eight presidents and terrified them all. When

1:10:42

asked why he didn't fire Hoover, JFK

1:10:45

replied, you don't fire

1:10:47

God. From chasing gangsters to pursuing

1:10:49

communists, to relentlessly persecuting Dr. Martin

1:10:51

Luther King and civil rights activists,

1:10:54

Hoover's dirty tricks tactics have been endlessly

1:10:57

echo in the years since his death.

1:11:00

And his political playbook still

1:11:02

shapes American politics today. Follow

1:11:05

Legacy Now, wherever you listen

1:11:07

to podcasts. So

1:11:10

it's my turn to go. Yes. And I'm

1:11:12

happy to say this case is

1:11:15

gonna be a bit of a reprieve.

1:11:17

Good. Yeah, we're not traveling too far.

1:11:19

We're keeping it Eurocentric today, but we're

1:11:21

gonna be going to the turn. Yay.

1:11:25

Oh, yay. Eurocentrism. We're gonna, you

1:11:27

staying in Europe is what I

1:11:29

mean. For dinner? Yeah. But

1:11:32

anyway, we're gonna be traveling to Germany

1:11:34

for this case. This case

1:11:36

is called the Chopper Ghost Mystery.

1:11:38

Oh. Do you know her? No,

1:11:40

I don't. I'm not incredibly surprised

1:11:42

that you don't because this has

1:11:45

not been reported on widely, at

1:11:47

least not in the English speaking

1:11:49

world. However, this does seem to

1:11:51

be a pretty infamous case from

1:11:53

Germany. And it all went down

1:11:55

in the spring of 1981. When

1:11:59

a phone. began to ring at a

1:12:02

dentist's office in a nootrobling Germany. Okay.

1:12:04

Now the phone was answered by a

1:12:06

16 year old

1:12:08

dentist's assistant named Claudia J.

1:12:10

Ooh, 16 year old dentist's

1:12:13

assistant? I know. That's too

1:12:15

young. I know. Sorry, you're

1:12:17

not touching my TV's. I feel like

1:12:19

she might have been just answering the

1:12:21

phones, maybe booking appointments. I'm not entirely

1:12:24

sure what Claudia J was doing. Okay,

1:12:26

it's maybe not a dental assistant like

1:12:28

I think of one now. Yeah, exactly.

1:12:30

It's not like a dental hygienist or

1:12:32

something like that. I'm not doing my

1:12:34

cleaning. No, she's probably scrubbing toilets and

1:12:37

stuff between phone calls. Not entirely sure.

1:12:39

The thing is, Claudia, this 16 year

1:12:41

old answered the phone and was greeted

1:12:43

by a low guttural voice that just

1:12:45

began to spew profanities at her until

1:12:48

she eventually hung up the phone. Okay.

1:12:50

The thing is, that was just

1:12:53

the beginning. The caller,

1:12:55

who would soon call himself

1:12:57

the chopper, continued to call

1:12:59

the dentist's office and spoke

1:13:02

with Claudia day after day

1:13:04

after day. And

1:13:07

this gargled voice was always the

1:13:09

same, but the calls weren't always

1:13:12

the same in nature. If

1:13:14

anyone but Claudia picked up

1:13:16

the phone, the chopper would

1:13:18

just resort to lodging screams

1:13:21

and insults and profanities. However,

1:13:24

very quickly when it was

1:13:26

Claudia who answered the phone,

1:13:28

the phone calls were still

1:13:30

very disturbing, but for a

1:13:32

completely different reason. Instead

1:13:34

of screaming and shouting,

1:13:36

this distorted voice would

1:13:38

try to woo Claudia.

1:13:41

He would tell her

1:13:43

jokes, make her promises,

1:13:45

and sometimes the chopper

1:13:47

would ask to marry

1:13:49

her. Really? You

1:13:52

want to get in the chopper? Get

1:13:54

into the chopper! I wonder how

1:13:56

that would have gone over. Not very well,

1:13:58

I don't think. Now, because

1:14:01

this happened in Germany, it's hard

1:14:03

to find any translations of what

1:14:05

was said, but these phone calls,

1:14:07

for the most part, were definitely

1:14:10

obscene in nature. And

1:14:12

considering that Claudia was just 16 years

1:14:14

old at the time, the

1:14:16

nature... Now because this happened in

1:14:18

Germany, it's hard to find any

1:14:21

translations of what was said, but

1:14:23

these phone calls, for the most

1:14:25

part, were definitely obscene in nature.

1:14:28

And considering that Claudia was just 16 years

1:14:31

old at the time, the

1:14:33

nature of these calls were just incredibly

1:14:35

disturbing. If like, more disturbing than they

1:14:38

already would have been because she's a

1:14:40

fucking kid. Right? The thing is, these

1:14:42

weren't just happening every now and then

1:14:44

either. At its peak, these calls were

1:14:47

happening all the time as the chopper

1:14:49

would call the dentist's office up to

1:14:51

120 times in a single day. Girl,

1:14:56

no. We're talking dentist office hours.

1:14:58

Like when her dentist office opened

1:15:00

like 10 to 5. Never. Yeah,

1:15:02

like never. Yeah, like 3 to 5. Yeah, like, you

1:15:04

know, that's totally fine. You're allowed to have a short

1:15:06

work day, but the thing is... Hell yeah, make that

1:15:08

money. That is not a big window for 120 calls

1:15:11

to come in. Mm-hmm.

1:15:14

Now, Claudia's employer, the dentist,

1:15:17

Dr. Boxitz, ended up getting

1:15:19

the German federal post office

1:15:21

involved because on top of

1:15:24

being a postal service, the

1:15:26

German federal post office was

1:15:28

also a telecommunications company. Oh

1:15:31

shit, they're media moguls. They

1:15:33

wear many hats, yes. But

1:15:35

anyway, the hope was that

1:15:37

the German federal post office

1:15:39

would be able to intercept

1:15:41

these harassing calls and by

1:15:43

that nature, just cause

1:15:45

them to stop. And

1:15:48

initially, that did work, but

1:15:50

not long after these calls

1:15:52

were intercepted, the chopper

1:15:55

reemerged. And now,

1:15:57

he was intruding on phone calls.

1:15:59

calls between Dr. Botsits

1:16:02

and his patients. And

1:16:04

as you can imagine, these calls were pretty

1:16:07

vulgar. So basically you'd just be calling up

1:16:09

being like, oh yes, do you want to

1:16:11

come in and get your molas taken care

1:16:13

of? Yeah. And then you would just have

1:16:16

this like low guttural voice just start screaming.

1:16:18

You're fucked by the devil. Yeah. I don't

1:16:20

know exactly what was being said. You want

1:16:23

to get fucked by the devil? Yeah. Like,

1:16:25

can you imagine this is what was happening?

1:16:27

This was happening like constantly.

1:16:29

Whoever this person was, they were just

1:16:31

targeting this dentist office and nobody had

1:16:34

any idea why. And people

1:16:36

also had no idea how he was able to

1:16:38

eavesdrop on these phone calls. This is 1981. Yeah,

1:16:41

that's wild. I don't even know if they had caller

1:16:43

ID yet. No,

1:16:46

they definitely didn't. Yeah,

1:16:48

no. Anyway, technicians from the post

1:16:50

office were brought in to examine

1:16:53

the phone lines connected to the

1:16:55

dentist's office. Yeah, sure. Essentially, after

1:16:58

looking these over, the technicians had

1:17:00

no idea how the chopper was

1:17:02

hopping on these calls. They couldn't

1:17:04

find any issues with the wires.

1:17:07

Nothing seemed out of place. However,

1:17:09

they did decide to replace all

1:17:11

of the wires just in case.

1:17:13

Yeah. But that did nothing to

1:17:15

fix the problem. The chopper was

1:17:17

still hijacking the phone line. And

1:17:20

by now, the choppers have seen

1:17:22

phone calls were not just like

1:17:24

very disruptive, but they are actually

1:17:27

interfering with the dentist's operation. I

1:17:29

can imagine. Yeah. And

1:17:31

so in collaboration with the post

1:17:33

office, Dr. Boxitz began to record

1:17:35

the phone calls. And this went

1:17:38

on for months and months until

1:17:40

November of 1981 when the police

1:17:42

got involved. OK.

1:17:46

So up until this point, I guess the police didn't

1:17:48

really have anything to do with

1:17:50

trying to stop these chopper phone calls

1:17:52

from happening. Even though they were harassing,

1:17:54

I suppose it was outside of the

1:17:56

jurisdiction because there was quote unquote technically

1:17:58

no crime. Sure. I say quote unquote,

1:18:00

I'm not actually quoting anybody. Yeah. The

1:18:02

thing is, though, the

1:18:05

police got involved when murder

1:18:08

was brought into the conversation. Ooh,

1:18:10

really? Yeah. It basically seemed like

1:18:13

the chopper was starting to

1:18:15

escalate and was starting to lob

1:18:17

death threats at Claudia. Girl. The

1:18:20

same 16-year-old who,

1:18:22

like, months prior, this voice

1:18:24

was trying to woo and

1:18:26

wed. She has way

1:18:29

more important things to deal with than

1:18:31

your bullshit. All right. Sir. Yeah. So,

1:18:33

yeah. So now that the chopper had

1:18:36

called in a death threat, the police

1:18:38

were like, OK, this definitely escalates things.

1:18:40

And so the matter was taken into

1:18:42

the police hands as they began their

1:18:45

own telephone surveillance on the dentist's office.

1:18:47

And, like, I'm sorry to get stuck

1:18:49

on it, but, like, just imagine being

1:18:52

a 16-year-old and having to deal with

1:18:54

that shit at work. Yeah. Like I'm

1:18:56

saying, like, it's already hard enough, as

1:18:59

it is at that age. Yeah. But, like,

1:19:01

fuck, man. To have, like, somebody stalking you

1:19:04

like that. Right. And, like, pray. Ooh. And,

1:19:07

like... Terrifying. The thing about these kinds

1:19:09

of phone calls, like, I've seen it

1:19:11

happen to people in my life. They

1:19:13

come out of nowhere. Nothing is done,

1:19:15

but they leave a mark. Yeah. Because

1:19:17

sometimes when these types of phone calls

1:19:19

come in, they say some... They can

1:19:21

say some pretty horrific, very

1:19:23

invasive shit. And then

1:19:26

you're told nothing can be done

1:19:28

about it? Yeah. It's terrifying. Yeah.

1:19:30

It is an absolutely terrifying situation.

1:19:32

Yeah. So, anyway, the police, like

1:19:34

I said, they started to survey

1:19:37

these telephone calls. And

1:19:40

while they were doing this, the police

1:19:42

also began to conduct interviews around town.

1:19:45

And they ended up searching more than 55 apartments, maybe

1:19:48

hoping to find a break in the case. Like, maybe

1:19:50

if they could find the caller's, like,

1:19:52

den or something. Who knows? Like, were

1:19:54

they looking for some sort of, like,

1:19:56

mad lab of telephone wires? Totally. Not

1:19:58

entirely sure. is for

1:20:01

months the Chopper remained elusive

1:20:03

while still continuing to harass

1:20:05

the dentist's office. So even

1:20:07

with the police taking matters

1:20:09

into their own hands, nothing

1:20:11

could be done to stop

1:20:13

it. But then in

1:20:16

February of 1982,

1:20:18

this was about eight months after the calls

1:20:20

began, everything changed.

1:20:24

Up until now, the Chopper's voice

1:20:26

had only been heard through the

1:20:29

telephone, but now the voice

1:20:31

could be heard in the

1:20:34

dentist's office. Ew, really? Yeah. That's

1:20:36

fucking weird. And apparently, it was

1:20:38

everywhere. Really? It was heard in

1:20:40

the pipes. It was heard in

1:20:42

the drains. It was heard in

1:20:44

the little bowls that the dentist

1:20:46

used to like drop shit in.

1:20:49

Fuck off. This voice just seemed

1:20:51

to be everywhere. It was like

1:20:53

the Chopper was in the room

1:20:55

at all times, except the Chopper

1:20:57

was nowhere to be found. Yeah,

1:20:59

it's like the Chopper is a

1:21:01

ghost pervert. Well, yeah. Yeah. Because

1:21:03

now with this like voice just

1:21:06

echoing in the air, people began

1:21:08

to wonder, was the

1:21:10

Chopper even human? The

1:21:13

idea that the Chopper might be

1:21:15

some sort of evil entity or

1:21:18

a ghost spread through town like

1:21:20

wildfire, like a harassing caller is

1:21:22

one thing. A harassing like caller

1:21:24

poltergeist is a pull of the

1:21:27

level. Right. Now, with

1:21:29

this kind of revelation, this

1:21:31

escalation, I suppose, the police still had

1:21:33

no idea what was going on. If

1:21:36

anything, they had less of an idea

1:21:38

of what was going on. Yeah, absolutely.

1:21:40

And some of the police officers were

1:21:42

even becoming convinced themselves that the dentist's

1:21:45

office was just haunted and plagued by

1:21:47

ghosts. Oh, that's bad. Like when the

1:21:49

cops are starting to be like, well,

1:21:52

maybe it's the paranormal. Uh-huh. Yeah, you

1:21:54

know, they got nothing. Yeah, right. Now,

1:21:56

on February 11th, a

1:21:58

local weekly magazine. called Die

1:22:01

watch and I think it's watch

1:22:03

you watch D watch D

1:22:05

watch D watch how do you spell

1:22:07

it W I got one semester German

1:22:09

oh yeah okay let me shine with

1:22:12

this C plus so it's D ie

1:22:14

D yeah W O C

1:22:16

H E yeah Volk

1:22:18

die Volk yeah okay so this

1:22:20

magazine die volk we'll call it

1:22:23

wrote about watch me have done it

1:22:25

watch me have done it entirely wrong

1:22:27

well it's definitely better than my day

1:22:29

is like the one thing I got

1:22:31

one confidence everything else is utter bullshit

1:22:33

that was like the one thing I

1:22:35

forgot to like do a pronunciation check

1:22:37

on anyway spooky bitches let us know

1:22:39

is the name of the magazine isn't

1:22:41

as important what is important is that

1:22:43

this local magazine started to write about

1:22:45

the chopper and pretty soon

1:22:48

after this article was published news

1:22:50

of the chopper began to spread

1:22:52

not just within town but within

1:22:54

the entire country of Germany and

1:22:57

everybody had their eyes on new

1:22:59

troubling now pretty soon

1:23:01

a media outlets started reaching out

1:23:03

to the dentist's office asking

1:23:06

for interviews offering like

1:23:08

exclusive contracts for from from the

1:23:10

folks involved just to get like

1:23:12

the scoop yeah what was going

1:23:14

on they were getting a lot

1:23:16

of fucking attention and everybody wanted

1:23:18

the good tea the thing

1:23:21

is this story became so big

1:23:23

that the criminal investigation Department of

1:23:25

Munich police decided to open their

1:23:27

own case file on the matter

1:23:29

calling it the soco guys girl

1:23:31

yeah they weren't they weren't even

1:23:33

like there no just like we

1:23:35

got to keep an eye on

1:23:37

this becoming some national shit they're

1:23:39

like it's ours we're giving it

1:23:41

a nickname mm-hmm now naturally

1:23:44

Claudia the 16 year old was

1:23:47

the person who everybody wanted to

1:23:49

talk to about this she

1:23:51

was the first person to ever speak to

1:23:54

the chopper and she was the only one

1:23:56

who stood in the choppers favor and she

1:23:58

was also the only one that the chopper

1:24:00

had threatened to kill. Totally. Just kind of

1:24:03

like the triple threat in that way. Yeah.

1:24:05

She had it from all angles. Yeah, the

1:24:07

triple threat that nobody wants to be. Yeah.

1:24:09

The thing is though, although in theory

1:24:12

you wouldn't want to be this triple threat,

1:24:14

it's said that Claudia, who is now 17

1:24:17

years old, really seemed to be enjoying

1:24:19

all of the attention that she was

1:24:21

getting from this. Yeah. It was like

1:24:23

a negative thing at first, but now

1:24:26

she was kind of leaning into the

1:24:28

positive. Yeah. Sorry, was it

1:24:30

full grown men who were saying that she

1:24:32

actually likes it? Well, just wondering. I'm not

1:24:35

entirely sure. Okay. The thing is though, there

1:24:37

are a lot of public interviews with her.

1:24:39

There are photos of her and she

1:24:41

just really kind of seemed to be leaning

1:24:43

into it. I don't have an exact timeline

1:24:46

for everything that had happened, but Claudia started

1:24:48

getting offers for roles in

1:24:50

movies. Okay. There

1:24:52

were amateur musicians who were

1:24:55

writing fictionalized songs about her

1:24:57

relationship with the chopper. Okay.

1:25:00

And to top it all

1:25:02

off, Claudia also started receiving marriage

1:25:05

proposals. She's 17. What?

1:25:07

Like why? No. Why are

1:25:09

we- Slow your goddamn role. Just stop. You

1:25:12

know what? Send him in. Fine. Send him

1:25:15

in. That lets us know where to find

1:25:17

you, you sick fuck. Yeah. The hell? So

1:25:20

it's just like, oh, this young girl

1:25:23

has been traumatized by this phantom

1:25:25

voice that has asked her to

1:25:28

marry her. Maybe she'll marry

1:25:30

me. Like where is the logic there?

1:25:32

People are gross. Stop sexualizing a fucking

1:25:34

teenager, man. That's the tea. Ooh.

1:25:37

Now, while all that

1:25:39

is happening, the academics are also

1:25:41

starting to throw their hat in

1:25:43

the ring and they are eager

1:25:45

to get a little taste of

1:25:47

the chopper. I'm sure. Now, doctors

1:25:49

and professors from all over the

1:25:51

country, especially those who studied parapsychology,

1:25:53

were anxious to know more about

1:25:56

the chopper. Were they also trying

1:25:58

to get with the 16-year-old? Dunno.

1:26:00

Probably. The thing is they slowly

1:26:02

but surely began to show up

1:26:05

at the dentist's office to conduct

1:26:07

a little bit of research. The

1:26:09

most prominent of them all was

1:26:12

a man named Professor Hans Bender.

1:26:15

Now Hans Bender was an expert

1:26:17

in parapsychology and had extensive knowledge

1:26:19

about poltergeists. But due to prior

1:26:22

commitments, he wasn't able to make

1:26:24

it down to neutral bling straight

1:26:27

away or straight away. Both

1:26:30

are fine. I got that straight

1:26:32

away. Straight away. However,

1:26:35

because Bender couldn't get there, he still

1:26:37

wanted to get the scoop. So he

1:26:39

did employ both a local scientist and a

1:26:42

journalist to check out this so-called haunted

1:26:44

house ahead of his arrival just to sort

1:26:46

of like prep the scene and basically

1:26:48

just try and determine if it's worth

1:26:50

his while. Now,

1:26:52

these people hadn't experienced the chopper

1:26:54

themselves. However, they did confirm that

1:26:57

Dr. Botsitz did have recordings of

1:26:59

the telephone conversations with the chopper,

1:27:01

which, of course, Dr. Bender would

1:27:03

be very eager to listen to.

1:27:07

So Bender and his assistant

1:27:09

Elmer Gruber ended up traveling

1:27:11

to neutral bling at the

1:27:13

end of February of

1:27:15

1982 and arrived in this so-called chopper

1:27:18

town to a sea of onlookers outside

1:27:20

the dentist's office. Like this thing was

1:27:22

really taken the fucking cake. It

1:27:26

was the most popular. The dentist had been

1:27:28

in years. 100 percent to the point that

1:27:30

this town was being nicknamed Chopper Town. Damn.

1:27:35

And this hasn't been happening for a

1:27:37

very long time. People were like just

1:27:39

trying to get in for teeth cleanings

1:27:41

just to see what's up. Yeah, I

1:27:43

know. Honestly, folks, like people really give

1:27:45

dentists a hard time. You know, we've

1:27:48

all heard the thing they have the

1:27:50

highest professional suicide rate. Why

1:27:52

not? Like create a little

1:27:54

bit of whimsy. Why don't you?

1:27:57

Bring in a specific clientele.

1:27:59

Because obviously the people are

1:28:02

thirsty for it. If I had the choice

1:28:04

to go to the Not Haunted Dentist or

1:28:06

the Haunted Dentist. I'd be excited. I'd probably

1:28:08

go to the Haunted Dentist. I'll take. Oh

1:28:10

my God, next time I go to the

1:28:12

dentist, I'm gonna be like, can you just

1:28:14

like invent something? Yeah, are there any ghosts

1:28:17

here? Yeah, what's up? The thing is, although

1:28:19

there are a lot of people gathered around

1:28:21

outside of the dentist's office, these weren't just

1:28:23

people looking for an appointment. These weren't even

1:28:25

just locals. By now, people from other countries

1:28:27

were traveling to this town to stand outside

1:28:29

this dentist's office and try to get a

1:28:32

little taste of the chopper. They want to

1:28:34

get in the chopper. They really

1:28:36

did want to get in the chopper.

1:28:38

And some people actually did get into

1:28:40

the chopper because at this point, there

1:28:42

were some journalists who were actually paying

1:28:44

an undisclosed amount of money to

1:28:47

stay at the dentist's office. Ooh. Yeah, so

1:28:49

they were basically like room and boarding in

1:28:51

the dentist's office, which I'm assuming must have

1:28:54

been some like converted house. I know like

1:28:56

when I grew up, my dentist's office was

1:28:58

just in this like big old converted house.

1:29:00

Same with mine. It was on like the

1:29:02

ground floor of like this house that my

1:29:05

mom used to go to when she was

1:29:07

like a little kid. It was like her

1:29:09

friend's house. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it was creepy

1:29:11

as fuck. Yeah, that was what mine was,

1:29:13

just like this old Victorian house. There's a

1:29:16

staircase you weren't allowed to go up. Same.

1:29:18

Yeah. Oh my God, and we grew

1:29:20

up on different ends of the province.

1:29:23

We did, but you know, same kind

1:29:25

of architecture everywhere. So that's what I'm

1:29:27

assuming is happening here unless people are

1:29:29

just like sleeping in the dentist's chair.

1:29:31

I guess, yeah. Which could also be

1:29:33

a possibility. That's also a cool Airbnb

1:29:35

experience. Sure, it is. Yeah, it's very

1:29:38

unique. Yeah, thank you. Now, Bender, this

1:29:40

professor of parapsychology, was there in hopes

1:29:42

of proving the existence of poltergeist basically,

1:29:44

because from what he can determine with

1:29:46

Claudia being the 17-year-old who

1:29:48

seems to be attracting this spirit, it really

1:29:51

was sounding very poltergeisty to him. The

1:29:54

thing is, the police were

1:29:56

there to do the exact

1:29:58

opposite. to disprove

1:30:00

the notion that anything supernatural is taking

1:30:02

place because they could see that this

1:30:05

thing was kind of getting out of

1:30:07

control. And they've also been, you know,

1:30:10

investigating this for months and

1:30:12

have come up with at

1:30:14

this point, absolutely nothing. Totally.

1:30:16

Pretty quickly because of this, the

1:30:18

detectives began to build a case

1:30:21

hoping to disprove that any poltergeist

1:30:23

activity was happening here at all.

1:30:26

And the thing that actually allowed

1:30:28

them to start to do this

1:30:30

was some information that they received

1:30:33

from Professor Bender's assistant, Elmer Gruber.

1:30:35

Now, during their visit to the

1:30:38

dentist's office, the chopper did actually

1:30:40

make its presence known. Bender, Gruber,

1:30:42

and the detectives were all there

1:30:45

to witness the disembodied groans of

1:30:47

the chopper, as were several of

1:30:50

the dentist office employees because they

1:30:52

were still operating. Yeah, for sure.

1:30:54

The thing is, Gruber

1:30:57

ended up observing something that

1:30:59

nobody else did. As

1:31:02

the chopper was talking, Gruber

1:31:04

saw Claudia's reflection in a

1:31:06

mirror. Claudia was there. He

1:31:09

saw her reflection in a mirror

1:31:11

and noticed that her lips were

1:31:14

moving ever so slightly in sync

1:31:16

with the voice of the chopper.

1:31:18

Really? Uh huh. Okay.

1:31:21

So in the moment, Gruber kept

1:31:23

his observations to himself, but he

1:31:25

was immediately convinced that the chopper

1:31:28

was a hoax and that Claudia

1:31:30

might have been at the center

1:31:32

of it all. Now,

1:31:35

Gruber would later share this information

1:31:38

with Bender, and Bender wanted Gruber

1:31:40

to stay quiet about the whole

1:31:42

ordeal until he was absolutely sure

1:31:44

that there was no other poltergeist

1:31:46

activity happening here. However, Gruber was

1:31:48

so sure that this was a

1:31:51

hoax, so he went against Bender's

1:31:53

wishes and sent a report to

1:31:55

the authorities, which signified the- Beginning

1:31:57

of the end he was full

1:31:59

on Chad Michaels. He was like

1:32:02

come at me, baby Exactly.

1:32:04

He was like, you're not the boss of

1:32:06

me. Well, I'm technically my boss, but you're

1:32:09

not the boss of me Yeah, so I'm

1:32:11

gonna go spill the tea Yeah now shortly

1:32:13

after Gruber's report the police officers from Munich

1:32:15

attached to the SoCo Geist case Arrived

1:32:18

and this more or less

1:32:20

shut every other investigation effort

1:32:23

down. Yeah bender who felt

1:32:25

like This

1:32:28

was proving like porky pig. Yeah, he did

1:32:31

But that was his response when the police show Thing

1:32:37

is bender was still even if

1:32:39

parts of this was a hoax He

1:32:41

did feel like there was some a

1:32:44

typical poltergeist activity happening here And I

1:32:46

felt like there was more that he

1:32:48

wanted to to explore and research However,

1:32:51

because the police were sort of taking

1:32:53

things over He wasn't really able to

1:32:55

finish his research because the police were

1:32:58

just at this point so close to

1:33:00

Solving the case and after months of

1:33:02

no progress. They were very eager to

1:33:05

shut it down I can understand why

1:33:07

beyond that the SoCo Geist case was

1:33:09

also just costing the police department a lot of money

1:33:11

Yeah Yeah And the growing

1:33:13

public interest in the chopper mystery was

1:33:15

also in their eyes a threat to

1:33:17

law and order because things were just

1:33:20

getting A little out of hand a

1:33:22

little unruly. Okay, well, but I mean

1:33:24

that's the opinion of the police I

1:33:26

think a little ghost is a lot

1:33:28

of fun. Yeah, we just don't necessarily

1:33:30

share the same concern Exactly,

1:33:32

but basically the police just saw this whole

1:33:34

ordeal as a big juicy bug that needed

1:33:37

to be squashed Yeah, and I can also

1:33:39

understand like it's wasting taxpayer money and

1:33:41

resources Yeah, I get it, especially if

1:33:43

it is just like some 17 year

1:33:46

old causing some shit Totally now prior

1:33:48

to now in trying to pinpoint an

1:33:50

actual cause the investigators had considered all

1:33:52

kinds of other possibilities Including

1:33:55

ultrasonic waves and ventriloquism. So that was

1:33:57

kind of like already in the pool

1:34:00

of maybe this could be happening. Yeah. However,

1:34:02

they also considered. I think

1:34:04

this is kind of funny. They considered if

1:34:06

the sounds might have been traveling through people's

1:34:09

fillings. Oh, like

1:34:11

catching up radio waves. Yeah. So

1:34:13

they were like, oh, maybe the

1:34:15

metal that's being used during this

1:34:17

dentist work is causing people to

1:34:19

like hear voices. Oh, OK.

1:34:23

That proved not to be true at all, because

1:34:25

there are people who are hearing the voice that

1:34:27

didn't have any dental work done. So

1:34:30

then they were like, OK, well, maybe sound

1:34:32

is traveling through the pipes, maybe someone speaking

1:34:34

through the pipes, maybe someone's hanging out in

1:34:36

a wall or something. Absolutely. Try to play

1:34:38

it like a big didgeridoo. Yeah, exactly. Although,

1:34:40

I mean, if it's a sewage, but it's

1:34:42

a didgeridump, baby. Yeah. Yeah. But this theory

1:34:45

isn't totally off because you might remember back

1:34:47

on episode 231, I talked about Popper the

1:34:49

poltergeist, which

1:34:51

was a poltergeist that was just like affecting

1:34:53

this this house. And it kind of got

1:34:56

me thinking of it because chopper popper, you

1:34:58

see what I mean. Well, exactly right. It

1:35:00

could be best friends. It's the best buddy

1:35:02

duo comedy. One would think so. Yeah. Take

1:35:04

that show on the road, baby. But yeah,

1:35:07

I digress. But with the popper poltergeist, it

1:35:09

was kind of proved that the sound was

1:35:11

traveling through the chimney and stuff and was

1:35:13

reverberating through the house. Sure. So this theory

1:35:15

that maybe it's going through pipes was not

1:35:17

completely bonkers. Yeah, not

1:35:20

out of left field entirely. Absolutely not.

1:35:22

They also considered the fact that this

1:35:24

house where the dentist office was, was

1:35:26

located on top of an old tunnel

1:35:28

systems from World War Two. So

1:35:30

it was suggested that their

1:35:33

sister act. Mm hmm. Yeah. And

1:35:35

furthermore, it seemed like the dentist's

1:35:37

wife might have been in on

1:35:39

the action. Oh, yeah. The

1:35:41

thing is, though, the dentist's

1:35:44

stated that he believed that the voice

1:35:46

was something that came from his subconscious.

1:35:48

Oh, OK. So I don't really know

1:35:51

what he was trying to do with

1:35:53

that information, trying to just being like, I'm

1:35:56

not aware. Oh, I guess I am doing

1:35:58

it, but I haven't been aware this whole

1:36:00

time. I guess the beast is within. Yeah.

1:36:02

P.S., am I missing something? How is his

1:36:04

wife involved? Well, that's a big old mystery.

1:36:06

Yeah. Because she

1:36:09

got brought into it. Yeah. Kind of

1:36:11

got folded into this confession. And it's

1:36:13

believed that she might have been a

1:36:15

part of this whole thing helping to

1:36:17

throw the voice. Like a hype man.

1:36:20

Like, flave a flave. Exactly. Okay. The

1:36:22

problem is, although the police got these

1:36:25

partial confessions initially, as

1:36:28

things started to progress and charges were starting

1:36:30

to be laid, they kind of backtracked on

1:36:32

it. Okay. So it does

1:36:34

kind of become a little bit murky

1:36:37

in the end. The thing

1:36:39

is, though, with the doctor

1:36:41

saying that he

1:36:43

was doing this subconsciously, the police

1:36:46

weren't buying it. And slowly they

1:36:48

learned how the three

1:36:50

of them were able to bring

1:36:52

the chopper to life. Basically, the

1:36:55

room at the dentist's office where

1:36:57

the chopper was often heard was

1:36:59

a tiled room. And it had

1:37:01

acoustics that allowed the voice to

1:37:03

sound disembodied when projected. Okay. So

1:37:05

essentially, whenever they were in the

1:37:08

room and people were there to

1:37:10

witness the chopper, one of them,

1:37:12

usually Claudia, would discreetly

1:37:14

turn around to face a

1:37:17

wall before putting on the

1:37:19

voice. And this just happened

1:37:21

to convince people that there was

1:37:23

a ghost in the room. Damn. Now,

1:37:25

shady as it was, this was a

1:37:28

pretty remarkable trick because many witnesses

1:37:30

claimed that they heard the voice of

1:37:32

the chopper coming from all kinds of

1:37:34

places like the pipes, the walls,

1:37:36

and the drains. But also, one woman

1:37:39

even claimed that she heard the

1:37:41

voice of the chopper come

1:37:43

from the toilet bowl while she was

1:37:45

on the toilet. Okay. How are

1:37:47

you going to do that? Well, here's the thing.

1:37:50

People are kind of

1:37:52

full of shit sometimes. Uh-huh. Yeah. I'll tell

1:37:54

you this as somebody who used to design

1:37:56

sound in theater and used to work with

1:37:58

directors. who'd be like, oh, can we isolate

1:38:01

the sound to this exact part of the

1:38:03

stage, blah, blah, blah? People

1:38:05

don't fucking know. People think that they know

1:38:07

if you tell them that's where it's coming

1:38:09

from, you know, like psychologically they start to

1:38:12

clue into that. But quite often, like when

1:38:14

people are in our room, like

1:38:16

it's not that hard to disorient them with

1:38:19

sound. That's totally fair. And again, people think

1:38:21

that they know where something is coming

1:38:23

from, but if they don't see the source,

1:38:26

it can be hard. Yeah, and we've seen

1:38:28

things like this in all kinds of other

1:38:30

like situations, like the Fox sisters, they seem

1:38:32

to be very successful at being able to

1:38:35

like throw sounds and just deceive people into

1:38:37

thinking sounds were coming from somewhere where they

1:38:39

weren't when it was all just, it's all

1:38:41

just tricks, smokes and mirrors. Yeah, absolutely. It's

1:38:44

just, it's perception. Exactly. Yeah, and misdirection. Now

1:38:46

with all of this, the police basically had

1:38:48

the confessions that they needed, even if they

1:38:50

were just partial confessions. And the very next

1:38:52

day they made a public announcement that the

1:38:55

chopper was a hoax and that those responsible

1:38:57

had been caught. I think they may have

1:38:59

even done a little bit of a demonstration

1:39:01

just to like really try and convince the

1:39:04

public that there was nothing to be feared

1:39:06

and that this wasn't real. Yeah, and so

1:39:08

they're like, let us introduce you to the

1:39:10

art of intriliquism. Exactly. Oh, PS, what I

1:39:13

was saying before, left, right sound isolation, people

1:39:15

can tell, but I'm just saying like when

1:39:17

you're like, oh, it was six inches to

1:39:19

the left, not from like some, our perception

1:39:21

isn't necessarily that good. Anyway, yeah. That makes

1:39:24

total sense. But anyway, so they demonstrated it.

1:39:27

They basically told the people that

1:39:29

the people responsible had been caught.

1:39:31

And after that, the interest in

1:39:33

the chopper case did begin to

1:39:36

dwindle significantly. However, some

1:39:38

were still very curious to see

1:39:40

what would come of Claudia and

1:39:42

Dr. Boxitz. Sure. Now, unsurprisingly, Dr.

1:39:45

Boxitz lost his practice. And as

1:39:47

a result, Claudia also, okay, how

1:39:49

are you gonna do that? Well,

1:39:52

here's the thing. People

1:39:54

are kind of full

1:39:56

of shit sometimes. I'll tell you

1:39:58

this as somebody who used to design. sound

1:40:00

in theater and used to

1:40:02

work with directors who'd be like, oh, can we

1:40:04

isolate the sound to this exact part of the

1:40:07

stage? Blah, blah, blah. People

1:40:09

don't fucking know. People think that they know if

1:40:11

you tell them that's where it's coming from, you

1:40:13

know, like psychologically they start to clue

1:40:16

into that. But quite often, like when people

1:40:18

are in a room, like, it's

1:40:21

not that hard to disorient them with sound.

1:40:23

That's totally fair. And again, people think that

1:40:25

they know where something is coming from. But

1:40:27

if they don't see the source, it

1:40:30

can be hard. Yeah. And we've seen

1:40:32

things like this in all kinds of

1:40:34

other, like, situations like the Fox sisters,

1:40:36

they seem to be very successful at

1:40:38

being able to like throw sounds and

1:40:40

just to see people into thinking sounds

1:40:42

were coming from somewhere where they weren't

1:40:44

when it was all just, it's all

1:40:46

just tricks, smokes and mirrors. Yeah, absolutely.

1:40:48

It's just it's perception. Exactly. And misdirection.

1:40:50

Now, with all of this, the police

1:40:52

basically had the confessions that they needed,

1:40:54

even if they were just partial confessions.

1:40:56

And the very next day, they made

1:40:58

a public announcement that the chopper was

1:41:00

a hoax and that those responsible had

1:41:02

been caught. I think they may have

1:41:04

even done a little bit of a

1:41:06

demonstration just to like really try and

1:41:08

convince the public that there was nothing

1:41:10

to be feared and that this wasn't

1:41:12

real. Yeah. And so they're like, let

1:41:14

let us introduce you to the art

1:41:16

of intriliquism. Exactly. Yes. What I was

1:41:18

saying before left, right sound isolation, people

1:41:21

can tell. But I'm just saying, like,

1:41:23

when you're like, oh, it was six

1:41:25

inches to the left, not from like

1:41:27

some perception is most certainly not good.

1:41:29

Yeah. Yeah. That makes total sense. But

1:41:31

anyway, so they demonstrated. They demonstrated it.

1:41:33

They basically told the people that the

1:41:35

people responsible had been caught. And after

1:41:37

that, the interest in the chopper case

1:41:39

did begin to dwindle significantly. However, some

1:41:41

were still very curious to see

1:41:44

what would come of Claudia and

1:41:46

Dr. Boxitz. Sure. Now,

1:41:48

unsurprisingly, Dr. Boxitz lost

1:41:50

his practice and and Claudia perpetuated

1:41:53

this hoax after they realized how much

1:41:55

attention they were getting from it. She's

1:41:58

getting movie deals. Yeah. And

1:42:00

he's probably yeah, he's probably booked and

1:42:02

blessed at this point. Let me be

1:42:04

your manager. Yeah side hustle Yeah, he

1:42:06

was renting his business out to fucking

1:42:09

journalists to stay there. He was making

1:42:11

money. Yeah, absolutely now regardless

1:42:13

of that it does seem like the

1:42:15

police were also super eager to close

1:42:17

the case and For

1:42:20

that reason a lot of people think

1:42:22

that Claudia and dr. Botswits just took

1:42:24

the fall for every aspect of the

1:42:27

event Okay, even some parapsychologists have questioned

1:42:29

if every aspect of the case was

1:42:31

a hoax or if some of the

1:42:33

poltergeist Activity was real again a full

1:42:36

and in-depth Investigation was

1:42:39

never allowed to happen on behalf of

1:42:41

any parapsychologist But also

1:42:43

like in the aftermath of all

1:42:45

of this not too many parapsychologists

1:42:47

including a bender who did

1:42:49

believe that there could have been Something

1:42:51

authentically happening here in the way of

1:42:54

the supernatural He just kind

1:42:56

of like washed his hands of it because he

1:42:58

didn't want to get any kind of heat from

1:43:00

the public for trying to Maybe like be seen

1:43:02

as jumping to the defense of these two people

1:43:04

who were accused of Taking everybody

1:43:06

for a ride and perpetuating this hoax

1:43:08

Yeah, and so at the time

1:43:11

the case of the chopper ghost was just

1:43:13

not open for debate But that's

1:43:15

not so much the case anymore People

1:43:18

do kind of like to try and pick this apart

1:43:20

and see where the cracks may be The

1:43:22

thing is we probably won't know

1:43:25

all there is to know about

1:43:27

the chopper ghost mystery But

1:43:30

it is something that did take Germany by

1:43:32

storm in the early 1980s

1:43:35

and for that reason it's a really

1:43:37

interesting blip in the world of Paranormal

1:43:40

history, but with all that

1:43:42

being said that is the story of the

1:43:45

chopper ghost And I would

1:43:47

like to thank my sources of which

1:43:49

there are not many because very few

1:43:51

English-speaking people were talking about this online

1:43:54

But I do want to thank Spiegel DE

1:43:57

their website is Spiegel histories and they

1:44:00

had an article called Claudia's spirit that

1:44:02

was written by Johanna Lutheroff and published

1:44:04

February 3rd 2012. Thanks

1:44:07

to a strange company for

1:44:09

the article the dentist and his

1:44:11

chopper faked or Fortean that was

1:44:13

published on January 22nd 2018. Thanks

1:44:15

again to Shroud at hand. They're

1:44:17

on YouTube, they're

1:44:22

a great channel. They have a video

1:44:24

called terror in a dentist's office, the

1:44:26

chopper mystery and that was published April

1:44:28

2nd of 2024. But

1:44:31

then finally, thank you to my

1:44:33

biggest source for this. This

1:44:36

was a academic article

1:44:38

that I found on researchgate.net

1:44:40

called the authority strikes back

1:44:43

considerations about the allegedly fraudulent

1:44:45

chopper poltergeist case that was

1:44:47

written by Gerhard

1:44:49

Mayer and that was published on

1:44:51

January 2019 in a book called

1:44:54

single case studies in anomalistic. Alright,

1:44:56

thank you, Tyler. You're welcome. A

1:44:58

little ghost story. Even if it's

1:45:00

not real, whatever. It's all. Yeah.

1:45:02

Alright. Well, do you want to

1:45:04

move on? Yeah, let's move on.

1:45:07

Beautiful. You know what

1:45:09

I'm going to ask? I'm looking at you. You're looking at me.

1:45:11

I got one question in my mind. What did

1:45:13

you learn today? Today I learned, bitch,

1:45:17

we got to be thorough. Yeah, got to be

1:45:19

thorough in everything we do, especially if you're working

1:45:21

in the in law and order, honey, because

1:45:23

if they had taken their

1:45:25

time and crossed a few more more T's

1:45:27

and dotted a few more eyes, people

1:45:30

might not have died in regards to your

1:45:32

case. And I think that's that's the lesson.

1:45:34

Just be thorough. Absolutely. What do you do?

1:45:36

And if you fuck up, just hold yourself

1:45:39

accountable. Say, I fucked up. Yeah, don't try

1:45:41

to delete the footage. That's my lesson of

1:45:43

the day. Yeah. Just delete

1:45:45

the footage. Sometimes you can't do that.

1:45:47

And then it's even worse when you

1:45:49

get caught. You know, absolutely save yourself

1:45:51

the hassle. Save everyone else the hassle.

1:45:54

Yeah. Own your ship. Exactly. Alright. Well,

1:45:56

do you want to move on? Yeah.

1:45:58

Beautiful. I got a review. Can I read

1:46:00

it? You can. Beautiful. If you were

1:46:02

my sixth grade teacher, you'd be like, I don't

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know, can you? Oh dear. And to that I

1:46:06

say, fuck you. You

1:46:11

took a little bit too much interest in the

1:46:13

girls bra straps in my class. Oh no. You

1:46:15

know what I mean? Okay. Mr.

1:46:18

Dress code enforcer. Home

1:46:20

province proud is what Faria says

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to us. Five stars from a

1:46:24

fellow blue noser. I listen on

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Spotify. So this is an email

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that was sent in to us

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by Faria. I believe that is

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how you pronounce their name. I apologize if I didn't

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get it right. They sent this in through our website,

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which got me thinking our website is a great place

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to submit a review. If you're listening to us on

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Like if you're listening to us on Spotify or one

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of those apps where they don't offer you the opportunity

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to always hit us up. We got a little like

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contact form on our site. So these

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two are my favorite gay nephews from our

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home province of Nova Scotia. I say gay

1:47:01

nephews instead of uncles cause I've done the

1:47:03

math and I've estimated I'm approximately 10 years

1:47:06

older than Tyler and Johnny. We could still

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be your uncles. Yeah, that's all that can

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happen. We can also just be your friends.

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That's true. These guys have great humor, chemistry

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and respect for their subjects discussed. They managed

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to keep the podcast positive even when discussing

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the darkest of topics. Always varied and fascinating

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subject matter that is clearly well researched. So

1:47:24

proud to be a 100% that's

1:47:26

spooky bitch. Keep doing what you do

1:47:28

so well guys. Aw,

1:47:31

that's so nice. Isn't that

1:47:33

so nice? Yeah, I love it when

1:47:35

we hear from other Nova Scotians. It

1:47:38

just makes me so happy. I know like

1:47:40

not to say that they're more special than

1:47:42

everyone else even though I kind of did

1:47:44

just say that but you know, it's just

1:47:46

that it's that hometown vibe. But we've breathed

1:47:48

the same briny air. I know and that's

1:47:51

the thing. And like not often does Nova

1:47:53

Scotia get brought up in like pop culture

1:47:55

when it's not talking about, you know, like

1:47:57

the Titanic or, you know, remote

1:48:00

place. Like I remember when I was young, the

1:48:02

first time I heard Nova Scotia mentioned in

1:48:04

like American pop culture, they were like,

1:48:07

Oh, what are they, what are they

1:48:09

doing? They're washing up on the shore

1:48:11

of like fucking Nova Scotia or something

1:48:13

like that. Right. I actually, I remember

1:48:15

seeing the movie the day after tomorrow,

1:48:17

which is about the apocalypse. And I

1:48:20

remember being so proud because in one

1:48:22

of the news broadcasts in that movie,

1:48:24

Nova Scotia was like highlighted because it

1:48:26

was one of the first places that

1:48:28

was completely destroyed by the apocalypse. You're

1:48:30

like, Oh, Nova Scotia proud. But

1:48:34

look, you want to talk Nova

1:48:36

Scotia proud without any of that

1:48:38

like weird patriotism. You're making us

1:48:40

proud. You're provincial pal,

1:48:43

provincial pal. I like that little pee

1:48:45

pee. It's a nice little bit of alliteration.

1:48:48

And like, look, we really appreciate reviews. So please

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keep in common, babies. Now, if you want to

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We just talked about there including access to

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our store You didn't

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tell them the website address though. Oh, that's right. I didn't

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keep it a mystery. I'm gonna tell no I

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should tell it's that spooky dog. Yeah, that kind of

1:50:28

Negates us, you know, given the people the info

1:50:30

and where to find it. I wanted to be

1:50:33

a little mysterious But you can't be but cha

1:50:35

aren't Anyway

1:50:39

Finally if you want to help support the rainbow

1:50:41

railroad fundraiser or you want to get some cute

1:50:44

merch whatever go over to that spooky Com slash

1:50:46

store. We got a bonfire apparel store link on

1:50:48

there, but you can check all of the merch

1:50:50

that we have available It's super

1:50:52

cute. It's print to order and yeah for a

1:50:54

limited time. It's supporting a real good cause so

1:50:57

into it It's

1:51:00

not calling you stupid. No, it's it's like

1:51:02

a term of endearment You know, but by

1:51:05

the end of the day on July 15th,

1:51:07

it's gonna be gone Eastern Standard Time All

1:51:09

right, and if you don't get about and

1:51:11

you're stupid Sounds like she's

1:51:14

got a bit of a head cold today.

1:51:16

She does and she's also very hot and

1:51:18

would like to go home now So I

1:51:20

think I think this episodes

1:51:22

over. That's it. We're done. We're finished.

1:51:25

It's over. Yeah, but Even

1:51:27

though share wants to go home like y'all don't have

1:51:29

to you stay within our hearts

1:51:31

daily dear listeners And don't you forget that

1:51:33

so in the meantime until we meet again,

1:51:35

don't forget. We love you very much kissy

1:51:37

kisses And

1:51:40

as always do not forget if you're gonna be a

1:51:42

bitch be a spooky bitch And

1:51:46

enjoy map time Time

1:51:55

If you like that spooky you

1:51:57

can listen early and ad-free right

1:51:59

now by joining one Wundery Plus

1:52:01

in the Wundery app or on

1:52:03

Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen

1:52:05

ad free on Amazon Music. Before

1:52:08

you go, tell us about yourself

1:52:10

by filling out a short survey

1:52:12

at wundery.com/survey. Available.

1:52:15

It's super cute. It's print to order and

1:52:17

uh, yeah, for a limited time, it's supporting

1:52:19

a real good cause. So get into it.

1:52:21

Into it, stupid. Yeah, because It's not calling

1:52:24

you stupid. No. It's like

1:52:26

a term of endearment, you know? No. But

1:52:28

by the end of the day, on July

1:52:30

15th, it's going to be gone. Eastern standard

1:52:32

time. All right. And if you don't get

1:52:34

about and you're stupid. Sounds

1:52:36

like she's got a bit of a head

1:52:39

cold today. She does. And she's also very

1:52:41

hot and would like to go home now.

1:52:43

So I think, I think this

1:52:45

episode's over. That's it. We're done.

1:52:47

We're finished. It's over. Yeah. But,

1:52:49

uh, even though Cher wants to go home, like

1:52:52

y'all.