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per month. Slows. Sing,

1:16

Musers. Sing

1:25

to me a story of Olympus and the

1:28

deathless gods who govern earth, sea and sky.

1:31

So asks young Melanthus as he

1:34

bundles himself up against the cold

1:36

on Mount Sipylos. He

1:38

has not come alone. He leads

1:40

Nestor by the arm, helping the

1:43

old king navigate the mountain path

1:45

on frail faltering legs. Nestor

1:48

calls Melanthus grandson and

1:50

the young boy does not correct him. The

1:53

truth, the 13 generations

1:55

that separate them, it

1:57

would only confuse the old man now. and

2:00

he has already lived too much of his long

2:02

life in a fog. This

2:05

desire, this compulsion to

2:08

visit Cipilos has become Nesta's

2:10

only constant. Why?

2:13

Melanthus cannot say. Nesta

2:16

will not explain. Perhaps

2:18

he does not even know himself.

2:22

And yet, as they climb, Melanthus

2:25

notices the old king's mumbling

2:27

cease, his eyes

2:29

focus, senility burning

2:31

off like morning mist. And

2:35

then they finish the climb. It

2:37

is a barren tall, but for a

2:39

single hunk of stone. Only

2:42

when they get closer does Melanthus realise that

2:44

it is a statue, a

2:46

woman kneeling. Perhaps it

2:48

is just the sleep and the rain, but

2:51

her eyes seem to water. And

2:54

now tears start to stay Nesta's face

2:56

too. Who is she? Melanthus

3:00

asks. But he's

3:02

not the old king who replies. Another

3:05

figure has joined them on the tour,

3:07

and sure as Melanthus knows day from

3:09

night, he knows him for

3:11

a god. Apollo, the

3:14

archer. His bow

3:16

is slung across the shoulder. She

3:19

is Niobi, Apollo

3:21

explains. Ask the

3:23

Muses. They will tell

3:25

you of her punishment, of

3:27

her grief and of my gift to

3:29

her grandson, Nesta.

3:36

It's the Entrance on History Hit. I'm

3:39

Tristan Hughes, your host. And in

3:41

today's episode, what is the next in

3:43

our Greek Gods and Goddesses miniseries, we

3:45

haven't got many deities left. It's

3:47

exciting on one hand because we're finally nearing the

3:50

end of this miniseries, but

3:52

also sad because this miniseries, it's been going on

3:54

for about a year and a half now. We've

3:56

only got one, two, three deities left.

4:00

the one we have today, which is Apollo.

4:03

Apollo, a god of the sun but

4:05

also a prophecy of medicine, music, poetry

4:08

and more. He was the god of

4:10

a huge range of different things though

4:12

and as I also mentioned he was

4:14

also one of Zeus' favourite sons. Now

4:17

as with all of our episodes in this

4:20

mini-series we are kicking off this one with

4:22

a story, an oral retelling of a myth

4:24

about Apollo and the one we've chosen today,

4:27

well it's a pretty gruesome one. It's the

4:29

story of Niobe and her 14 children, seven

4:32

sons and seven daughters who fell

4:34

victim to the wrath of Apollo

4:36

and his twin sister Artemis after

4:38

Niobe had foolishly boasted that she

4:40

was a better mother than their

4:42

mother Leto. It

4:45

is quite the story. Following

4:47

this we have an interview with the

4:49

podcast host and Greek mythology expert Liv

4:51

Albert. Liv, she has been

4:53

on the pod before to talk all

4:55

the things Aphrodite and we're very grateful

4:57

that she agreed to return to talk

4:59

all things Apollo even though she readily

5:01

admits that he is her least favourite

5:04

of all the gods. You'll

5:06

find out why. Do also

5:08

go and check out her podcast Let's

5:10

Talk About Myths Baby if you want

5:12

even more Greek mythology once you've listened

5:14

of course to this one. I

5:17

really do hope you enjoy and to kick

5:19

it all off is the story of Apollo

5:22

and Niobe. The

5:29

Musa song starts with screaming and

5:31

the spilling of blood but it

5:33

is not upon the battlefield, it

5:36

is upon two birthing beds. One

5:39

is in Thebes, the other in

5:41

Delos. One is

5:43

covered with silken sheets attended

5:45

by midwives and priestesses. The

5:48

other is simply the hard earth,

5:51

a dark cave attended only by

5:53

beasts and howling winds. On

5:57

one bed strains a mortal, a princess

5:59

made a and the

6:01

other a deathless goddess, the

6:04

Titan, Leto. And

6:06

when nine days pass, when their

6:08

labours finally end, when the slides

6:10

of life unspool, all the efforts

6:13

sink, the difference

6:15

becomes most stark. One

6:19

bed sees the birth of two, the

6:22

other, 14. All

6:26

Thebes marvels when Niobe presents her

6:28

brood at court. Seven

6:31

perfect boys and seven

6:33

perfect girls. They

6:36

say the children are the foundation stones on

6:38

which Thebes' future will be built. They

6:41

say no woman has produced such progeny

6:43

since Gaia of the good Earth, she

6:47

who birthed the world itself. In

6:50

Niobe breathes deep the court's delight.

6:53

But it is merely the popular

6:55

breeze, and before long the wind

6:57

turns, bringing word of

7:00

that other birth to Thebes, the

7:03

birth of gods, the

7:05

archer twins Apollo and Earthmus.

7:09

For years then, all the world

7:11

fates their mother, Leto. The

7:13

details of her tryst with Zeus,

7:15

they become sonnets that lovers share.

7:19

Woes of her exile by Hera,

7:21

they become tragedies that play right

7:23

stage. And as for

7:25

her devotion to her children, it

7:27

becomes the exemplar of motherhood from

7:30

mortal and deathless alike. Niobe

7:33

seeps. Thebes

7:35

has all but forgotten her children,

7:39

and so one evening, when she hears

7:41

the praise of Leto once again, she

7:43

snaps. I

7:45

have carried seven times her children,

7:48

so what would Leto know of motherhood that

7:51

I do not know seven times over?

7:54

It is a fateful boast. What

8:01

is it about hubris that so attracts

8:03

the gods' attention? Are

8:06

boasts like a sheen of oil

8:08

floating atop the spoken sea? Perhaps

8:12

Apollo spies Niobe's words in the

8:14

breaking waves on Delos' shore. Or

8:17

is it that when they say all words

8:20

are winged? A

8:22

boast is some great feathered thing, an

8:25

ocean bird far ranging and born

8:27

aloft on so much hot air.

8:31

Perhaps it is with an

8:33

arrow from his bow that Apollo brings down

8:35

the boast and learns of the insult to

8:37

his mother. Leto's

8:39

fury is terrifying. Motherhood

8:43

has cost her too much to hear it

8:45

slighted by a mere mortal. She

8:49

demands retribution. She

8:52

demands her children tip

8:55

the scales. Niobe's

9:04

seven perfect boys are hunting in the

9:06

forest when they hear the rattle of shafts

9:08

in a quiver. Seven

9:11

adamantine arrows from the forge of

9:13

a phytus. The

9:15

only mercy Artemis offers is a

9:17

quick death. Apollo

9:20

carries the quiver for Niobe's

9:22

seven perfect girls. But

9:24

these arrows he has fleshed himself,

9:27

each tipped with pestilence. You

9:30

see, he is not merely a

9:32

god of medicine, but the tale

9:34

of that coin too, a

9:37

god of epidemic. When

9:39

an army is struck with sickness

9:41

and plague, it is Apollo's barrage

9:43

that has laid them low. He's

9:46

caused bull's-eyes with blister, foil and

9:49

brews. Niobe

9:51

has only just learnt of the slaughter

9:53

of her boys when her eldest girl

9:55

collapses. Before dusk

9:57

falls, she has lost three

9:59

years. daughters. Before day

10:01

dawns, another three till only one

10:03

child is left, her

10:06

last pawn, Cloris. In

10:09

desperation, Niobe climbs to the heights

10:11

of Mount Siphilus to pray for

10:13

some deliverance, to beg

10:15

some explanation for this suffering reaped

10:17

upon her family, and

10:20

Leto is ready to oblige. You

10:23

have only one child now, Niobe,

10:26

whereas I have two. So

10:29

what could you know of motherhood that I

10:31

do not know twice over? But

10:34

Leto's arithmetic is wrong. There

10:37

is something of motherhood that she will never

10:39

know greater than Niobe. Not

10:42

merely twice over, not merely seven

10:44

times over. It is

10:46

beyond all counting. Leto's

10:49

children are deathless gods,

10:51

and so she will never know

10:53

the grief of losing a child.

10:55

That sinking weight in Niobe's stomach

10:58

that drives her to her knees,

11:01

that freezes her muscles and fuses

11:03

her bones, it robs her

11:05

of every movement. She

11:07

petrifies, stone weathered by

11:09

the wind, overgrown by the moths. Polo

11:13

watches her long petrification, and

11:16

he recalls his own mother on the shore

11:18

of Delos. Her

11:21

stillness, her

11:23

silence, the grief

11:25

of her exile. And

11:28

he feels something almost like

11:31

regret. So he

11:34

rebalances the scales. The

11:40

end of the Musa story is lost in

11:43

a thud. It is the sound

11:45

of Nestor sinking to his knees

11:47

till he and Niobe are

11:49

all the same. Statues,

11:53

unmoving. Those

11:55

years I gave you were a reparation,

11:58

Apollo says. used

12:00

at this lack of appreciation for his

12:02

generosity is magnanimity.

12:05

Thirteen generations, one

12:08

for each of your aunts and uncles, for

12:11

the siblings of your mother, Chloris. And

12:15

still, Nesta does not move, does

12:18

not reply. Apollo

12:20

turns to Malanta, searching for

12:22

some of

12:24

the most important things he has ever done. But what could a

12:27

boy say to make a god understand his

12:31

error, the fault in his arithmetic? How could a boy

12:33

explain that, like his mother, Apollo

12:41

too has never known

12:43

the grief of losing a child? But Nesta has. The fog of

12:45

his age is

12:48

13 generations he has lived. So

12:51

how many generations has he seen

12:53

die? His children,

12:55

his grandchildren, his great-grandchildren,

12:58

and on, and

13:00

on, and on. His

13:05

grief is not twice my obese.

13:08

It is not seven times my

13:10

obese. It

13:12

is beyond all counting. Liv,

13:17

it is such a pleasure to have you back on

13:19

the podcast. I am so thrilled to

13:22

be back here to talk about, I mean literally

13:24

any Greek god but Apollo. Apollo,

13:26

and last time you were here talking about

13:28

that goddess Aphrodite, now we are back on

13:30

for Apollo. And we're now quite

13:33

a way down the line of the Greek

13:35

gods and goddesses, but a couple more to

13:37

do, including this deity. First off, no such

13:39

thing as a silly question, Liv, who was

13:41

Apollo? I was excited to talk

13:44

about Apollo because Aphrodite is my favourite Olympian

13:46

goddess and Apollo is my least favourite but

13:48

like for fun reasons, so I thought it

13:50

was very fitting. Apollo

13:52

is the god of everything. I like to say

13:54

he's the god of everything and nothing. He

13:57

is Zeus' favourite son who... really

14:00

gets to kind of control a

14:02

real myriad of things in

14:04

the ancient Greek world. You know, he's

14:06

the god of music and prophecy and

14:09

healing and also plague. He's both

14:12

a protector of young men and

14:14

also basically the cause of any

14:16

sudden death. He really is

14:19

just everything and nothing. Because

14:21

that nothing bit at the same time because I mean

14:23

people say Apollo they say God of the Sun. But

14:25

the so much is God of the Sun I think

14:27

of a deity like Helios or something like that. So

14:30

is there much depth in him being God

14:32

of the Sun as you've highlighted God of everything but God

14:34

of nothing at the same time? I was so

14:36

glad to see that the Sun would be mentioned because

14:38

it is a sort of a pet obsession of mine

14:40

and I say that he's the God of nothing because

14:43

the things that he is the God of to me

14:45

are so based in the natural world I suppose that

14:47

it feels like they just kind of gave them to

14:49

him but like he doesn't actually have to do much

14:52

like all this. I understand that you know obviously

14:54

all of this is to understand that the gods were doing

14:56

these things but the stuff that he

14:58

controls also just feels like they just kind of

15:00

threw a bucket of stuff at him and just

15:03

were like I don't know handle this. But the

15:05

Sun is a really interesting one because I didn't

15:07

say the Sun because I live in the depths

15:09

of archaic and classical Greece which

15:11

is when Helios is very much the

15:13

God of the Sun and Apollo has

15:15

little to no association with the Sun aside

15:17

from the fact that you know he

15:19

is called Phoebus Apollo primarily and that

15:21

Phoebus does mean bright. So it has

15:23

this like connotation with the brightness but

15:25

both he and Artemis because Artemis you

15:27

know becomes the goddess of the moon

15:29

later the opposite and neither of them

15:31

really have that association in the earliest

15:33

surviving Greek sources because yes, you're right Helios

15:36

is the God of the Sun and

15:38

Celine is the goddess of the moon.

15:40

Basically the way I like to phrase it I'm

15:43

sure there are you know loads of much

15:45

more in-depth historical analyses that can go

15:47

on here but the way that I like

15:49

to phrase how Apollo becomes the Sun is

15:51

that as time goes on as centuries pass

15:53

through the Greek culture and then later into

15:55

you know when Rome kind of adopts bits

15:58

and pieces from Greek mythology and it

16:00

into something new, they kind of

16:02

seem to reach this point where they

16:05

have a better understanding of the world around

16:07

them. They have a less of a need

16:09

for so many individualized

16:11

gods. And it seems to me

16:13

that a lot of the more

16:15

important gods like Apollo being honestly like second

16:17

to Zeus in importance, he is really, really

16:20

up there. And these important gods

16:22

tended sort of take on other roles that

16:24

used to be reserved for the

16:26

older, more primordial deities like Helios

16:28

was a Titan. And

16:30

so when they seem to have less

16:32

need for so many gods, they give

16:35

that important stuff to the important gods.

16:37

So Apollo becomes the God of the

16:39

Sun and Artemis becomes the goddess of

16:41

the moon. But they really don't have

16:43

that kind of direct association in the

16:45

earlier times and in these kind of

16:47

the earliest surviving sources. And it just

16:49

fascinates me because he's become ubiquitous as

16:51

the God of the Sun. Everyone calls

16:54

him the God of the Sun, you know, like it's his big

16:56

thing when you look at pop culture representation or

16:58

kind of anything about the Greek gods. Whereas yeah,

17:00

if you're looking at classical period,

17:02

archaic period, he is not the God of

17:04

the Sun. Well, I'm glad we piloted that

17:06

straight away because maybe the title may well

17:08

be our fellow God of the Sun. And

17:10

if so, we've highlighted we've clarified straight away

17:12

when actually that comes to fruition. If

17:15

Apollo is almost like this favorite son of

17:17

Zeus, king of the gods, do we know

17:19

much about his characteristics, what he was like

17:21

as a god, at least according to what

17:23

the ancient Greeks thought? Well, yes.

17:26

And I am I am slightly biased in how I

17:28

read the gods. I do think I read

17:30

them quite literally, but I'm not particularly kind

17:32

to those readings. Apollo is he does a

17:34

lot of bad stuff, a lot of crimes

17:36

under his belt. He causes

17:38

the death of basically everyone he claims

17:40

to love through various means.

17:44

One of his most famous stories is his quote

17:46

unquote love of the name Daphne, where he seems

17:48

to fall in love with her chases

17:50

after her trying to convince her to love him.

17:52

And then she just runs and runs and eventually

17:54

is so afraid that she asks her

17:56

father to transform her into a tree to get

17:59

away from him. And then he

18:01

loves, quote unquote, loves her so much

18:03

in death or as a tree that

18:05

he like, not only gropes this tree,

18:07

but then also takes, you know, the tree, the

18:09

laurel tree as his symbol as a god

18:11

and he's forever conveyed with a laurel. And

18:13

you're like, that origin story like, isn't great.

18:16

And I should say Daphne just literally

18:18

means laurel in Greek, which I think is

18:20

sort of an interesting piece. And one thing we often

18:23

forget, we think of like, oh, that's just her

18:25

name because to us in English, it's a name, but

18:27

it's just the Greek word for laurel.

18:30

He also loved a guy named Hyacinthus

18:32

so much and accidentally

18:35

was like playing discus with him and threw a

18:37

discus and it hit him in the head. And,

18:39

you know, there's more to these stories, but basically

18:42

there's a lot of death in Apollo's life. And

18:44

I can't immediately think of like

18:47

a particularly good, nice, happy story

18:49

associated with him. And I think

18:51

we'll explore these like characteristics and some of

18:53

these stories in detail as we go on.

18:55

But I mean, let's start with the origins

18:57

and you've already mentioned how Artemis is his

19:00

twin sister. So when we talk about the

19:02

origins of Apollo, I'm guessing it's very much

19:04

intertwined with the story of Artemis too. Very

19:07

much. And I think it makes Artemis

19:09

look far more interesting, but the inter-Greece would disagree. Yeah,

19:12

the story of his birth is quite iconic. His

19:14

and Artemis' mother is a Titan named Lido who

19:16

was one of Zeus' many, we can say, conquests.

19:21

I'm not sure to say with those two, kind

19:23

of what the mentality was between them, but

19:25

essentially Lido gets pregnant and

19:27

Hera finds out as she kind of

19:30

always does. And this is a sort of

19:32

ongoing story with Hera. It's not the most ideal,

19:34

but you know, she wants to punish the woman

19:36

for the fact that Zeus cheated on her. And

19:39

she, as a goddess of childbirth herself, there's

19:41

a lot of goddesses of childbirth to preface

19:44

basically speaks to the various

19:46

deities to ensure that Lido just can't

19:48

give birth. So she gets to

19:50

nine months and she's just ready to pop, but nothing can

19:52

happen. And she kind of travels all

19:54

around looking for a place to give birth, but the

19:57

earth itself won't let her and all the gods that

19:59

need to be involved. won't allow it until

20:01

she finally gets to this island in the

20:03

Cichlides called Delos, which they believed

20:05

was floating. And because they believed this particular

20:08

island, it was said to be like in

20:10

the center of the Cichlides, because

20:12

it was floating, it didn't have contact with

20:14

Earth. And thus, after a

20:16

little convincing to a personification of the

20:18

island, the goddess Lido is finally able

20:21

to give birth. She first

20:23

gives birth to Artemis, and then Artemis

20:25

actually helps as it's just a tiny baby.

20:28

She helps in the birth of her twin Apollo.

20:30

And then meanwhile, Apollo gets all the credit for

20:32

like being the golden child, which I just think is

20:34

wrong. Like Artemis is an

20:36

infant, a newborn, and then helps her mother

20:38

with childbirth, and becomes the goddess of childbirth

20:40

herself, even though she remains childless. But

20:43

I know this isn't about Artemis, but

20:45

essentially that's Apollo's birth. Well, I mean, exactly. But

20:47

of course, we can mention the story of Artemis

20:49

too, because it's very much linked to the story

20:51

of Apollo as these divine twins almost. And it's

20:53

quite interesting, is that key part of the story

20:55

of the birth of Apollo and Artemis is that,

20:57

you know, there are several places that Lido is

21:00

not allowed to give birth because of jealousy or,

21:02

I know, as you said, it should be his

21:04

use, he's punished for it, but Lido is always

21:06

the person targeted. Is that something

21:08

that very much becomes a part of Apollo's

21:10

story when he starts to grow up? It's

21:13

almost kind of straight away that desire for vengeance against

21:15

those who hurt his family and in this case, his

21:17

mother. There's a lot of stories

21:19

about vengeance when it comes to his mother.

21:21

I'm a little less familiar with the various

21:23

locations, just because there are so many different

21:25

little bits and pieces that come across the Greek

21:27

world. But when it

21:29

comes to Lido herself and wanting

21:31

to defend her, this definitely becomes

21:34

an incredibly common storyline

21:36

with Apollo for... There's

21:39

a number of different stories associated with

21:41

both him and Artemis coming to Lido's

21:43

aid and ensuring that there is vengeance

21:46

for kind of anyone who wrongs her.

21:48

Is one of these stories... I mean, I'm quite if I'm wrong, but

21:50

I've got in my notes the name, I mean, the serpent's python. What

21:53

are the big stories associated with Apollo and this

21:55

desire to kind of protect his mother and get

21:57

revenge almost? The story of Python, I

21:59

think, has a lot of... little bit less when it comes

22:01

to Lido. The one I think of

22:03

primarily is there is the

22:05

giant Titius who attempts to

22:08

assault Lido and then Apollo

22:10

takes him out completely. And

22:12

I think it's in the

22:15

general area of Boeotia, which is later, maybe

22:17

it might be where then he's over there

22:19

and then he keeps wandering. And this is

22:21

when he finds the dragon, the giant snake

22:23

Python. I mean, there's so many little versions

22:25

of every story, but Python definitely is a

22:27

huge storyline for Apollo

22:29

because this is essentially just a,

22:31

they call it a Dracon, a dragon.

22:33

It's sort of the earliest name for what is

22:35

really just a very large snake, a

22:37

python even. And you know,

22:40

Apollo finds Python comes across him.

22:42

It said that Python was guarding

22:44

the Oracle as it

22:46

currently was in existence

22:48

in Delphi on Mount Parnassus.

22:51

And so, you know, he killed this snake with

22:54

his bows and arrows. The story itself doesn't have

22:56

much detail besides he did it because he's

22:58

Apollo. And of course he can kill this

23:00

snake, but the after effects are, are enormous

23:02

because of where this is taking place.

23:04

It's around where the Oracle was said

23:06

to have existed. And what's

23:08

really interesting about it is that in

23:10

the sources, the Oracle was said to

23:12

have been run by the goddess famous

23:14

at the time. And then because Apollo

23:16

killed Python, he took it over and

23:18

it became his Oracle. But what we

23:20

also know historically is that there was

23:22

an earlier site of the Oracle, which

23:25

in an archaeological sense, in a physical sense, there

23:27

was an earlier site of the Oracle that

23:30

was probably devoted to a mother earth goddess.

23:32

And then it came in and Apollo became

23:34

the primary God associated with that Oracle. So

23:37

what's really interesting to me is that

23:39

the story of Python feels very much

23:41

like a, like a literal healing essentially

23:43

of the matriarchy that

23:45

might've existed in earlier times and where

23:47

they, you know, a goddess was worshiped

23:49

over gods and then a man literally

23:52

comes in and, and takes out this

23:54

snake and takes it over and then

23:56

becomes the primary God of the Oracle.

23:58

And that becomes the origin his

24:00

biggest claim to fame in all of

24:02

the Greek world is that the Oracle

24:04

of Delphi was Apollo's, despite that

24:06

it was women's first. You know, that was something that

24:09

rattled my brain for some time, as kind of the

24:11

job logs looking in. I mean, having gone to a

24:13

place like Delphi and thinking of all

24:15

of the Greek gods that this Oracle is dedicated

24:17

to, I mean, it's not like Dedona, it's not

24:19

to Zeus, not to like Hades or Poseidon, it's

24:21

to Apollo. And I didn't realise it's kind of

24:23

entwined with that myth. But of all deities, I

24:25

mean, initially, you think it seems a bit of

24:27

a weird choice to do it to Apollo almost.

24:30

Well, he is the god of

24:32

prophecy, but that also seems

24:34

to come from a woman

24:36

first, because his grandmother is

24:38

the Titan Phoebe, who is

24:40

the Titan goddess of prophecy

24:42

and bright intellect. So

24:45

her name kind of means brightness, along with some

24:47

word associated with prophecy that I'm going to forget

24:49

exactly. But her name comes from it.

24:52

And then down the line, Apollo not

24:54

only takes her name, becoming Phoebus Apollo,

24:56

but he takes prophecy too. This is

24:59

why I have a real love-hate relationship with

25:01

Apollo, because to me, he feels like the

25:03

personification of the patriarchy in a way that

25:05

most of the other gods don't. He

25:08

really took away a lot of

25:10

things explicitly from women who held

25:12

them before. And of course,

25:14

it's based in stories and it's sort

25:16

of this mythologised account, but at the

25:19

same time, you can see the remnants

25:21

of it in history, where we

25:23

know that there was a heavier

25:25

worship of women before the period

25:28

that we have record from. And

25:30

so you can almost see that

25:32

kind of slowly being chipped away

25:34

through Apollo. Isn't it

25:36

saying of the monster, this giant snake? Of

25:38

course, this is a god battling a monster.

25:40

And does this almost kind of like lead

25:42

us into another of these attributes, which I

25:45

believe is associated with Apollo, which is like

25:47

the bow and the arrows? Mm

25:49

hmm. Yeah, that's his primary weapon

25:51

of choice. I don't know

25:53

of an origin story for kind of

25:55

how he gets those, but both he

25:57

and Artemis are known for their archery.

26:00

Their epithets are often things like far-darter

26:03

or far-shooter. He's said to have

26:05

been very good with that bow and arrow. Hi,

26:15

Liv here again. Are you looking to learn

26:18

even more about your favorite characters from

26:20

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26:30

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have episodes on almost anything you can

26:34

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26:36

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26:39

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26:41

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27:49

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29:36

delve more into this kind of vengeance,

29:38

archivapolar and interesting orient, and hurting other

29:40

people, because I've got in my notes

29:42

coming next. The story of Niobe, who

29:44

seems to be this queen of thieves.

29:47

Now what's the story of Niobe with

29:49

Apollo? That's a very big story when

29:51

it comes to him getting

29:53

vengeance for his mother. Lido is

29:55

a goddess of childbirth, like I said. There

29:57

are really a number. There's also a literal

30:00

goddess of childbirth, Eiletheia, who is the

30:02

one who is actually there in order

30:04

to facilitate, but there are I think

30:06

at least four goddesses of childbirth. Belita was

30:08

one of them, and because she's a Titan, she's this oldest

30:11

one, right? She's like the first goddess of

30:13

childbirth. And Niobe is

30:15

a princess, I believe. I know

30:17

that she is from my favorite

30:19

cursed family line, the line of

30:21

Tantalus. The curses in that

30:24

family are really utterly

30:26

perfect. But Niobe is the only woman

30:28

that's part of this curse, and she has 14 children. And

30:32

of course, she brags about this. She talks about

30:34

how, you know, Lido only has two, and she

30:37

has 14, so, you know, she's obviously

30:40

better. And this

30:42

results in Apollo and Artemis

30:44

coming down and just systematically

30:46

shooting with their arrows every

30:48

single one of her children.

30:50

It's an incredibly tragic story.

30:53

Not one of my favorites, I won't lie.

30:55

At least because it just makes Niobe look

30:57

awful, and it's just tragedy. Would you

30:59

say this is one of the key

31:01

myths that kind of symbolizes that horrific

31:04

streak, particularly of Apollo? It is.

31:06

It's so interesting. You know, he punishes

31:08

on behalf of Artemis as well sometimes,

31:10

but this one with Niobe is definitely

31:12

one of the most viscerally

31:15

violent, one of the most straight

31:17

tragic, because there's also a sort

31:19

of version where, you know,

31:22

the tears that she cries over

31:24

her children eventually transform her into

31:26

a rock, a real rock that was

31:28

said to have weaped tears, essentially.

31:30

Like, it's very much just

31:32

sad, rather than, you know,

31:35

something like the Python or

31:37

Titius or something where it's just kind of like, oh,

31:39

that's just a vengeance story, or just a, you

31:41

know, a monster story, whereas this is just a

31:44

bunch of children died. Yeah, innocent people. Yeah. Yeah,

31:46

no, no, no, exactly. And I know that so

31:48

many of the stories and myths of all of

31:50

these deities are pretty horrible and horrific, and all

31:52

these deities are horrible in many ways. But this

31:54

one, you know, in many ways, it stands out,

31:56

doesn't it, with Apollo? I mean, so you kind

31:58

of have that kind of... vengeful

32:00

side of Apollo. And yet, he's still, as

32:02

you mentioned earlier, almost as if someone's throwing a

32:05

bucket at him with all of these different

32:07

attributes that he becomes a God over. And some

32:09

of these is like arts and music. I

32:11

mean, Liv, talk to us a bit about Apollo

32:14

being the God of arts and music and

32:16

the attributes that he has as God of

32:18

these things. It's another

32:20

one of those ones where, yeah, it feels like they

32:23

just kind of tossed stuff at him because I'm sure

32:25

that, you know, there's someone could pull an association of

32:27

why he would be the God of both plague

32:29

and art and music. I can't think of

32:31

it. But it is really interesting to me,

32:33

it feels more like this, this need

32:36

to give him important stuff

32:38

alongside more vengeful attributes. One

32:41

of my favorite little anecdotes

32:43

is how he gets the liar, because

32:45

he's the God of music. And you

32:47

know, he always has association, he's a God of the arts,

32:50

all these different things. But it's

32:52

not Apollo who invents the liar. And it

32:54

in fact comes from what I would defend

32:57

with my life is the funniest ancient

32:59

source ever. It is the

33:01

Homeric hymn to Hermes. It is truly the most

33:03

joyful thing you'll ever read in your entire life.

33:06

It's from the archaic period. So it's also very

33:08

old. It's one of these very few instances

33:10

where we get an incredibly long

33:12

and detailed source that is just

33:14

joy. But essentially Hermes is

33:16

born and as a baby, he is

33:19

wandering this mountain where his mother gave birth to him

33:21

and he lived in this cave with his mom and

33:23

he gets restless. He's a baby but he's also Hermes.

33:25

He's a trickster God who's... I mean, if

33:28

Apollo is the God of everything, I don't even know what

33:30

Hermes is because he's the God... His

33:32

list is far longer than Apollo. But

33:34

he's out wandering as a newborn,

33:37

mind you, a newborn baby and he's

33:39

wandering to the edge of his cave and

33:41

he comes across a tortoise and he thinks, oh

33:44

my gosh, this tortoise is just the cutest thing.

33:46

Like he's a newborn baby, he's looking at this

33:48

tortoise. How very cool, this little thing. If

33:50

you've seen any Greek tortoises, they're truly... They

33:52

are very fun. They're always wandering the Acropolis

33:54

and the Agora. It's wonderful. And

33:56

he comes across this tortoise and he thinks,

33:59

oh, it's so cute. And he thinks, actually, what if

34:01

I killed it? And then I dug

34:03

out its insides. And then I,

34:05

you know, strung some strings and did whatever he

34:07

had to do to invent the lyre with this

34:09

tortoise shell. And it's just, he is a baby

34:11

for all of this. And what's best is that

34:13

this is like four lines in this hymn, and

34:16

then he goes on to wander

34:18

all around Greece and steal Apollo's cattle.

34:21

And it is a very long and epically

34:23

wonderful story. But the lyre ends up getting

34:25

given to Apollo in sort of an apology,

34:28

because Hermes stole all of his cows.

34:31

It is by far the funniest source

34:33

that survives. And I just I love

34:35

it more than anything. So not only

34:37

does baby Artemis help Apollo be born,

34:39

but also baby Hermes gets one over

34:41

on Apollo. And the lyre becomes his

34:43

most iconic, other than the laurel, I

34:45

would say, which again has these not

34:47

great connotations. It becomes his

34:49

most iconic attribute, like Apollo and the

34:51

lyre and him being this god of

34:53

music and song and everything is so

34:55

vital to his character that it is

34:57

a real joy that he

35:00

didn't invite the lyre. He got it given to him

35:02

as just like a way to appease him. And then

35:04

he made it his sort of entire personality.

35:07

He seems to be accompanied a lot of the

35:09

time by the muses. Now, who are these people?

35:11

The muses are an absolutely wonderful bunch.

35:14

It's sort of undetermined just how

35:16

many there were, depending on the

35:18

sources. But today, contemporarily, we often

35:20

or will almost always just say there were

35:22

nine because it is most interesting to have

35:24

so many of them. I could probably

35:27

name almost nine off the top of my head.

35:29

Calliope, Orato, Calliope is

35:31

the goddess of oral

35:33

poetry, I should say, or epic

35:35

storytelling. Orato is the goddess of

35:38

erotic poetry. Melpomene is

35:40

the goddess of tragedy. Thalia is

35:42

the goddess of comedy. Polyamna

35:45

is the goddess of hymns, religious

35:47

songs. And Cleo is

35:49

the goddess of history. We

35:52

might have hit a wall. That's six. That's

35:54

right. I know. That's two thirds the way.

35:56

I mean, Irania is the goddess of astrology.

35:58

Excuse me. Astronomy. astrology, astronomy. Well

36:01

I'm guessing that with the T

36:12

ecycology, there's a history in erotic poetry and so on. You can kind of understand

36:14

why they're so close to the associated with Apollo if he is the god of

36:16

arts and so on. Do we regularly see them in

36:18

mythology and so on lingering next to Apollo or are

36:20

they more kind of detached? Well it's another of those

36:22

really interesting cases where it feels to me like they

36:24

tacked it on to Apollo because they are not related

36:26

to Apollo in anything other than you know Zeus

36:28

has so many children that you can count it as

36:31

a relation but does it really count when

36:33

Zeus has hundreds? But they are the children of

36:35

Zeus and the goddess Mnemosyn who

36:37

is the Titan goddess of memory. So

36:39

it's kind of a beautiful thing to

36:41

associate these goddesses of the arts and

36:43

creation broadly, creativity broadly with memory. It's

36:45

a nice little association. But yeah, their

36:48

origin story doesn't really have anything to

36:50

do with Apollo and it really does

36:52

just feel like well he's the god

36:54

of the arts so we'll have them

36:56

all together. But in

36:58

terms of any kind of story, the

37:00

Muses don't feature all that often. There's

37:02

a whole host of hundreds and hundreds of

37:04

deities who are really so practical that

37:07

they don't take part in stories

37:09

necessarily where they are just so

37:11

much a part of the practicality

37:13

of creating something that they're not

37:15

characters in it because they helped

37:17

you make it. So

37:19

instead you have you know both

37:22

the Iliad and the Odyssey begin seeing

37:24

Muses of and then continue on and

37:26

you know all poets would tend to

37:28

begin their at least their longer pieces

37:30

with seeing Muses. They're calling to the

37:32

Muses to help them create this thing.

37:34

So the Muses are really associated with

37:37

the creation itself. So they appear visually

37:39

on a lot of things often with

37:41

Apollo kind of somewhere around. But

37:44

in terms of stories, they don't really. And I

37:46

kind of love that for them. The goddess Hestia

37:48

is a lot like that where she is simply

37:50

so important to daily life,

37:53

to humanity that she doesn't

37:55

feature into stories because they

37:58

wouldn't create a story about her. because life

38:00

is about her. So these muses,

38:03

you can't create a story about the create

38:05

tricks, really, right? She's so busy helping you,

38:07

she's not gonna be part of it. She's

38:09

creating it through you. The muses

38:11

are a fascinating bunch. I wish there were stories

38:13

associated, but the why is sort of more interesting

38:15

anyway. It's interesting that you drew that parallel with

38:17

Hestia as well, which I think is a great

38:19

parallel to Choose right there. I'm also

38:22

very glad that you mentioned in passing the

38:24

Iliad, because that is a lovely tangent for

38:26

us to go on to the next show

38:28

that I'd love for us to talk about,

38:30

which is Apollo and the Trojan War. Now,

38:32

so many deities seem to have a big

38:34

part in the Trojan War, but when it

38:36

comes to Apollo, he seems to have a

38:39

humongous, absolutely massive bar in meddling in the

38:41

Trojan War. He really does in a

38:43

number of different ways. Apollo being

38:45

on the side of Troy, though, is odd to me,

38:47

because he is also part of the

38:49

sort of origin story of why anyone was

38:51

angry at Troy, not the Helen bit, but

38:54

the earlier kings of Troy long before Priam, where

38:56

said to have asked the gods Poseidon and Apollo

38:59

to help build the walls around the city. And

39:01

then when it came time to pay up, they

39:03

refused. It's why Poseidon is against

39:05

Troy during the war, but Apollo is

39:07

still kind of on their side for

39:09

whatever god reasons may seem necessary. But

39:12

what's interesting about him during the Iliad

39:14

is that, the

39:16

Iliad is ultimately about Achilles's

39:18

rage, but Apollo's meddling helps

39:20

an awful lot, because

39:23

abducting women from a nearby town

39:25

and taking them as, I

39:27

don't like to say war booty, because they

39:30

are people, but you know, war prisoners, I

39:32

suppose, but they take a woman named Chrysaeus,

39:34

and she is the daughter of

39:36

a priest of Apollo. And this

39:39

ultimately is what causes Apollo to

39:41

enforce a plague on the Greeks at

39:44

the camps. And they're sort of completely

39:46

taken out by this plague until

39:48

eventually they return Chrysaeus to her

39:50

father, Chrysaeus. It's interesting because

39:52

he doesn't really, I mean, he does play a

39:54

role literally, but it's the plague itself, ultimately. So

39:56

it feels like another one of those moments where

39:59

he's kind of just... like letting his

40:01

attributes sort of do the work for him. Like all

40:03

he had to do was kind of be like, oh,

40:05

there's going to be a plague on you now. And

40:07

then you have to, you have to figure out how

40:09

to fix it kind of thing. Right. So his role

40:12

appears massive because the plague is so central to the

40:14

Iliad story, you know, with the rage of Achilles and

40:16

so on and so forth, which is, and I'm now

40:18

remembering the epic movie, Troy, where Achilles cuts off the

40:20

head of the Apollo statue or something like that. Oh,

40:22

yeah. Just

40:25

like not something a Greek would do. No,

40:27

exactly. I mean, there's a handful of those

40:29

in Troy, you know, very

40:31

Hollywood indeed. I mean, when coming to

40:33

ancient Greek society and Apollo being the

40:35

God of all these different things, and

40:37

also you've got the oracle of Delphi,

40:39

the oracle to Apollo, God of prophecy

40:41

and so on, what would

40:43

you argue is the most

40:45

significant part of Apollo, his

40:48

characteristics, his story, what he

40:50

represents to ancient Greek society?

40:52

Oh, that's an interesting question. It's

40:54

very difficult with Apollo because he simply

40:56

was one of the

40:58

most important deities in terms of

41:01

stories, but also just acknowledging that.

41:04

I recorded an episode at the end of last year where

41:06

I talked to someone about the role of the gods.

41:09

And it raised something really interesting to

41:11

me about Apollo, which is that he is the first

41:14

in the line of the

41:17

succession who doesn't take over

41:19

for Zeus or for his father rather,

41:21

you know, Uranus is first,

41:23

Cronus takes over from Uranus and

41:25

Zeus takes over from Cronus. But

41:28

Apollo doesn't ever take control. And

41:30

it feels to me like so much of

41:32

what he is the God of and his

41:34

importance is almost pandering to him. Like, if

41:37

we make him, you know, the most important,

41:39

he won't try to overthrow Zeus. And so

41:41

I kind of wonder how much that went

41:43

into it. But it is really interesting

41:45

because not only is he the God of so

41:47

many of these things, but he also just becomes

41:49

this just really so important that, you know, he's

41:51

the the only real example when the Romans, you

41:54

know, adopt much of Greek myth. And it's important

41:56

always to say that while they adopted some of

41:58

it and made it their own. like

42:00

they did not copy, people love to say they

42:02

copied Greek myths, they really did not, they were

42:04

simply influenced by a number of Greek deities, but

42:07

Apollo is the most obvious in that

42:09

he's the only one who keeps exactly

42:11

the same Greek name in Latin, which

42:13

is really interesting, you know, Dionysus is

42:15

Bacchus, which is also a Greek epithet,

42:17

or rather a Greek form of his

42:20

name, as so is Pluto, Hades, but

42:22

Apollo is the one where it's just Apollo,

42:24

it remains Apollo, he is a Greek Apollo

42:26

and then he is Roman Apollo, and it's

42:29

notable that he just retained this importance because

42:31

I believe in Rome he was also an

42:34

incredibly important God, and

42:36

the importance, and when it comes

42:38

to like worship and daily... Well,

42:40

I mean, the reason I ask is because if we

42:43

mention Apollo now, and of course, this is

42:45

associated with the Oracle of Delphi, and there

42:47

are all these foundation myths of cities like,

42:49

I don't know, Cyrene, I mean, I can

42:51

name in Afghanistan and places like that where

42:53

the people who found these cities, originally they

42:55

go to the Oracle of Delphi

42:57

to Apollo and so on and so forth, and

42:59

they get the counsel about how they're going to

43:02

settle the city, or deal with a big problem

43:04

such as the Persian invasions and that trust in

43:06

the wooden wall and all of that, because

43:09

that's not everyday life, that's not an

43:11

everyday person in ancient Greece going and

43:13

worshiping Apollo at the Oracle, these are

43:16

massive events, really significant events in the

43:18

city or an event in

43:20

ancient Greek history. It was kind of asking

43:22

that, I mean, is the Oracle that most

43:24

important part, or is there actually that part

43:26

of Apollo story where he is, as I

43:28

said, kind of central to daily life of

43:31

ancient Greeks too? Yes,

43:33

the references you've made were these big

43:35

decisions that the Oracle helped to make, but it

43:38

was also just something that people would go to. I'm

43:40

sure not poor people couldn't go, the

43:42

everyday person couldn't go, but then unfortunately,

43:44

we tend not to know anything about

43:46

the everyday person because they wouldn't have

43:48

been able to write it down, or

43:50

if they did, it didn't get preserved

43:53

for us today. So in terms of

43:55

what we are able to know, the Oracle was so

43:57

vital and what's always interesting is that the Oracle is a

43:59

very, very, very important me about the Oracle

44:01

is the way that the everyday people, again,

44:03

I say everyday, but I do mean the people in

44:05

charge who were capable of going to the Oracle and then writing

44:07

it down so that we know they did, really

44:09

considered it to be a really important way

44:12

of making decisions. And they recorded all of

44:14

these things and really listened.

44:16

Meanwhile, in the myths, it's always interesting because the

44:19

myths of people going to the Oracle

44:21

tend to always end poorly. They love

44:24

to misunderstand what the Oracle's prophecy is

44:26

and have that blow up in their

44:28

faces. Whereas when it came to historically

44:32

accessing the Oracle, it seems to have gone a

44:34

little bit better, or at least they were able

44:36

to read into it in ways where they felt

44:38

like it went a little bit better. There was

44:40

no Oedipus at least. Well, a couple of questions

44:42

before we completely wrap up Liv. This is kind

44:45

of a small tangent. With Artemis, she seems to

44:47

always be displayed as this young maiden. I

44:49

said with bow and arrow, this Huntress idea.

44:51

I'm sure there are other depictions of her

44:53

too. With Apollo in ancient

44:55

Greek art, is he also displayed usually

44:58

as quite a young figure too? Very

45:00

much. He's always beardless, which I suppose

45:02

a lot of the gods are. And

45:05

in pottery, people just tend to be.

45:07

But he is displayed quite young. He

45:09

often has this cool little bow in

45:11

his hair, which always interests me. He's

45:13

a little bit feminine in his appearance,

45:15

which is interesting. I mean, he definitely

45:17

always looks young and often

45:19

has some sort of musical association with him.

45:21

But there's a bust that I think of

45:24

that seems to appear kind of

45:26

everywhere, where he's got this bow. This

45:29

is a silly anecdote, but I once saw

45:31

a big replica of it in a shop. It

45:33

was a huge bust of Apollo, honestly, almost life-size. And

45:35

it just said, like, goddess. And I

45:37

was the nerd who went to the owner of the

45:39

shop and was like, just so you know, that's Apollo.

45:42

She was actually like, oh, I actually knew that. I'm

45:44

going to fix this. Thank you. But it was a

45:46

fun thing where he does kind of, he

45:48

very easily can be construed as a goddess

45:50

if you don't know. Like the clothing, of

45:52

course, if you're aware of what they would have worn,

45:54

it's pretty easy to tell it. It's him. But it's

45:57

an interesting thing. And, you know, he's also a

45:59

god. where his stories

46:01

of people he loved, he loved both

46:03

men and women, which is vital to

46:05

his story, but an interesting note about

46:07

him as well. But he is often

46:10

conveyed as young. And that's in large part because

46:12

he was also, along with Artemis, they were both

46:14

the protectors of young people. So he was

46:16

the protector of young men and she was

46:19

the protector of young women. And

46:21

so they kind of have this association with

46:23

youth in that way. Apollo is

46:25

also the God of medicine, which, you know,

46:27

we didn't talk about a lot, but it's an interesting part

46:30

of him as well. Well, let's quickly talk about that quick.

46:32

I mean, Liv, what do we know about Apollo as the

46:34

God of medicine? Because when I think of Greek medicine, I

46:36

think of it as like Asclepius or Epidavros, isn't it, in

46:38

the Peloponnese? I mean, how is Apollo related to all of

46:40

that? Yeah. Asclepius is

46:42

in Epidavros. Just to clarify that,

46:44

that's where the big, big complex

46:47

to Asclepius was. And Asclepius

46:49

is the son of Apollo. So that's

46:51

it. Asclepius is the literal God of

46:53

medicine in terms of, you know, who

46:55

was doing the medicine and who was

46:57

dedicated to it. But Apollo was his

47:00

father and therefore sort of the father of

47:02

medicine. He was the God of healing. And

47:04

what's interesting is that the birth

47:07

of Asclepius comes through the very

47:09

tragic death of his mother, where Apollo

47:11

learns from a raven that maybe she

47:13

cheated on him, except he's a God.

47:16

And so I mean, there's a whole lot going

47:18

on there. But essentially, he is

47:20

told by a bird that she

47:22

cheated on him. And so he kills her.

47:24

And I believe it's that she's pregnant with

47:26

Asclepius. And so Asclepius, oh, yes, Asclepius is

47:28

the first to be brought back from the

47:31

dead in this way. So Apollo sort

47:33

of navigates getting his child brought back from

47:35

the dead after he killed the mother. It's

47:38

quite a story. But essentially, that's

47:40

how Asclepius gets linked, both to

47:42

Apollo and to being the literal

47:44

God of medicine. But Apollo is still

47:47

the sort of overarching figure. And it's another

47:49

good example of how he was the overarching

47:51

God of so many things. But there were all the

47:53

other gods doing the literal stuff for him. Like he's

47:55

the God of the arts, but the muses are doing

47:57

all the work. He's the God of feeling but asclepius

48:00

is doing all of the work. It

48:02

feels like another good reminder of he was just

48:04

the important one. He was sort of the

48:06

figurehead god, more than the literal down in the

48:08

dirt god. I think that's a great

48:10

way to kind of summarise it, the figureheads, the

48:13

perceived to be an important one, but as you

48:15

said, the others are actually doing all the dirty

48:17

work for him. So interesting. Yeah. I mean, last

48:19

question, one other part of Apollo's story

48:21

that I know you mentioned right at the start, which is

48:23

this part of like Apollo, all these

48:25

people he seems to love appear to

48:27

die. We've got to explore this a

48:29

bit more. I mean, what are, who

48:31

are these people? What their stories? Yes.

48:34

Well, I mentioned Asclepius and his mother and

48:36

I believe his mother is Coronus. And

48:38

of course she died very tragically in the

48:40

birth of Asclepius. And then

48:43

there is Hyacinthus, who I mentioned

48:45

in the tragic discus row. So

48:47

he kills Hyacinthus because of that.

48:50

He falls in

48:52

love with a man named Sipperisis,

48:54

who dies in a very similar way. It's one of

48:56

those stories where they, I think they kind of reuse

49:00

tragedy. I don't, I can't

49:02

recall if it is a discus also, but essentially

49:04

it's another story of him falling in love with

49:06

a man and that man dies. And

49:09

then of course, you know, Hyacinthus

49:11

became Hyacinthus flowers and Sipperisis became

49:14

the Cyprus tree. And then

49:16

there's Daphne, who is very famous, who I

49:18

mentioned at the beginning, who doesn't die, but

49:20

she's transformed into a tree. So she

49:23

might as well have died. It

49:25

is quite impressive, the volume, you know,

49:27

when it comes to gods who fall

49:29

in love with men, unfortunately, it

49:31

happens quite regularly, that they die.

49:33

And, you know, I think this has

49:36

some association with the idea that the

49:38

ancient Greeks definitely had romances and sexual

49:40

relationships between men, but they didn't have

49:43

like lasting relationships in the same way.

49:45

So I think there's an association with

49:47

that or why Apollo's always die. But

49:50

it is, yeah, it's very interesting. He

49:52

has a lot of these apparent loves

49:54

who perish and he gets to be

49:56

very sad about it, but then also

49:59

go find another. pretty quickly. Well, Liv,

50:01

this has been a great overview into the

50:03

story of Apollo. It's great to have you

50:05

back on the podcast. Last but certainly not

50:07

least, you do have a

50:09

very popular podcast of your own, it

50:11

is called... Let's talk about myths,

50:13

baby. A thing I always have

50:15

trouble saying out loud, even though it's been seven years

50:18

of it. But yes, I know I run the Greek

50:20

and Roman, but primarily a Greek

50:22

myth retelling podcast where I retell

50:25

stories from the ancient Greek world. But I

50:27

also have conversations with historians and experts, and

50:29

I've been dabbling into history a little bit

50:31

more, getting close to you guys, what you're

50:33

doing there. Yeah, together we're

50:35

kind of just rocking the ancient

50:38

history realm of podcasting, but you

50:40

can find me wherever podcasts are

50:42

found. And I have truly an

50:44

absurd number of episodes that people can

50:46

go listen back to and learn, honestly at this

50:48

point, almost anything there is to know about Greek

50:50

myth. That's right. That's right. We

50:53

are rocking the ancient history podcast world. And Liv, once

50:55

again, such a place to have you back on the podcast.

50:57

Thank you so much for taking the time to come

50:59

back on. Thank you so much for having me.

51:01

It was very fun, just like last time. Well,

51:08

there you go. There was Liv

51:10

Alberts talking all the things Apollo,

51:12

God of Prophecy, Medicine, the Sun,

51:15

and so much more. I hope

51:17

you enjoyed today's episode. The latest

51:19

in our Greek Gods and Goddesses

51:21

mini series. We've only got two,

51:23

three deities more to do before

51:26

this series comes to a close roughly

51:29

a year and a half after

51:31

we began it in late 2022. It

51:33

will be an exciting, but also quite a

51:35

sad day when this series comes to a

51:37

close, but it has been so much fun

51:39

creating it along high to the team. And

51:41

I hope you've enjoyed the series

51:43

so far. The script for this

51:45

episode was written by Andrew Hulse, the script for

51:47

the story. The narrator for that

51:50

story was Nicola Rully. The whole

51:52

episode was produced by Joseph Knight and

51:54

it was edited by Aidan Lonergan. Thank

51:56

you to you all for making this

51:58

episode a reality. Last thing

52:01

from me, wherever you're listening to The Ancients,

52:03

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52:32

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52:34

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