0:01

Hey everybody, Dylan here. So

0:03

look, I don't want to gross anyone out who's

0:06

listening. So this is a warning. And what I'm

0:08

going to talk about is gross. Skip forward if

0:10

you don't want to hear about something gross. But

0:13

I am talking about traveling with

0:15

children. And

0:18

traveling with children is by

0:20

definition, disgusting. Not

0:23

once, but twice, I

0:25

have found myself either on an

0:27

airplane or running through an airport,

0:30

holding cupped in my hands,

0:33

someone else's vomit. Luckily, it's one of my

0:35

children's, not a stranger's. But children's

0:38

vomit as I find someplace, a trash can,

0:40

a bathroom to get to. Pretending

0:42

everything's fine, excuse me. Could you open

0:45

that airplane bathroom door for me? Why,

0:47

thank you. And then

0:49

there's still 12 hours left on the flight. So

0:53

my kids are a little older now. They're

0:56

slightly less vomit in our travel lives, but

0:58

there's all kinds of new challenges. My

1:00

daughter is a maniac for bugs

1:03

and critters. And so we're on

1:05

a trip and suddenly she's

1:08

got a snail in her hands, but we

1:10

haven't been anywhere where you could find a

1:12

snail for a really long time. Where did

1:14

that snail come from? How did it get

1:16

into your pocket? How long have you had

1:18

it? My son meanwhile, who's

1:20

now nine, has started to sort of

1:22

really, he's gotten really interested in

1:24

like zip lining and we

1:26

were in Las Vegas and he wanted to

1:28

go gambling in the casinos. And it's

1:31

just, as you learn one kind of set

1:33

of problems, new ones arrive. All

1:35

this is to say, when you travel with

1:37

your kids, it is very

1:39

complicated, serious business. But

1:42

today on the show, I'm gonna be talking with

1:44

two people who have done a lot of

1:47

traveling with their own kids, their own families,

1:49

and have some strong opinions about

1:51

what is and isn't worth the

1:54

investment, both kind of in the

1:56

monetary and emotional investment in a trip and actually

1:58

in the stuff you bring. bring with you

2:00

on that trip. Kulab Balisak

2:03

is a comedian, writer, director, and

2:05

Suchin Pak is a veteran journalist.

2:07

And together, they are the

2:09

self-proclaimed aunties who host the award-winning weekly

2:11

comedy podcast, Add to Cart. It is

2:13

a show about the things we buy,

2:16

the things we buy into, and what

2:18

it says about who we are. Each

2:21

week on the show, they choose a

2:23

handful of products to either add to

2:25

or remove from their carts. You'll

2:27

find that cart is a kind of metaphor for

2:29

all sorts of stuff in our lives. So it

2:31

is a really fun, wonderful show. I'm hoping that they

2:33

have some advice for me about how to travel with

2:36

kids because I don't seem to know what I'm doing.

2:39

I'm Dylan Thuras and this is Atlas Obscura.

2:42

And today, I am collaborating with the

2:44

aunties on Add to Cart. That's

2:47

after this. When

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to credit approval. So

4:04

hello, Su Ching, Kulak. Hi, nice

4:06

to see you. Oh

4:09

my goodness. Just the image of

4:11

vomit in your hands, you know,

4:13

just starting the morning, right? Has

4:16

this ever happened to you? Have you ever, I mean, it's

4:18

a disgusting question, but have you ever had to catch children's,

4:23

you know, vomit that happened? Last night,

4:25

last night's friend. One

4:29

and a half year old, she's

4:32

been having a coffee fit. And yep,

4:34

it happened. And it was projectile. And

4:36

we it was me and my husband,

4:38

it was all over. It was all

4:41

over. Like the exercise, it

4:43

was all over. What's

4:45

crazy is just like, how quickly

4:48

you just learned to take that and you're

4:50

just like, all right, like that's just this

4:52

is next thing. All good.

4:54

You know, no, because if you

4:56

panic, then you have screaming vomit child.

4:58

And you just have to be chill.

5:00

I remember one time we were on

5:02

a trip somewhere. And we

5:06

were at like one of these like festivals,

5:08

you know, outdoor festivals is food

5:10

and ride. And my son was

5:12

probably two on my husband's shoulder,

5:15

vomited from his head all the way

5:17

down to the back of my husband's

5:19

shirt, just soaked. And at

5:22

that point, what do you do?

5:25

Say la vie. This is the life of

5:27

a parent trying to do stuff with their

5:29

kids. This is the

5:31

cost of business. Okay, so we should go

5:33

around the horn and say how old our

5:35

kids are, what our experiences are in terms

5:38

of travel. And I'll start

5:40

and say that my daughter Emerald is

5:42

a year and a half. We have

5:45

only done sort of road

5:47

trips, like two hours

5:49

max in California. But now this

5:51

summer, we will be doing her

5:54

first plane rides. And

5:56

I am I am nervous. I

6:00

I've purchased some things that we'll get

6:02

into, but I really am

6:04

hoping since you know, you

6:06

guys have done this before that I can get

6:08

some tips of the trade. I

6:11

did it once and then there was

6:13

a travel ban on our family until

6:15

probably they were seven years old, you

6:18

know, so like there were seven years

6:20

where like nobody got on a plane.

6:22

So it's really interesting that you're approaching

6:25

it with like logic, reason and trepidation.

6:29

Because it's gonna be

6:31

a nightmare. Yeah, it's,

6:34

I hate to say it. Go ahead Dylan, take it away. Are

6:36

you serious? Take it away. How

6:38

old are your kids, Sichin?

6:41

Yours are older now, right? They're like... Yeah,

6:44

so mine are 10

6:46

and let's say 12. He'll be 12 in a few weeks. So

6:48

10 and 12. Got it. I'm

6:51

just a little behind you. I have a

6:53

nine year old son and my daughter turned

6:55

seven yesterday. And

6:58

the thing I have to say... Oh God,

7:01

I'm so scared of you guys. No,

7:03

it's totally fine. The big, the issue

7:05

is that particular age, like we, the

7:08

first plane ride we took with our son, he was like,

7:10

you know, a few months old and

7:12

actually when they're really little, it's easy. You

7:15

just like strap them on and you just they're there and

7:17

it's totally fine. But then you hit

7:19

this period and it's about one and a

7:22

half. Yeah. So

7:24

like... It's called walking time. Yes.

7:26

And then the plane rides get particularly

7:28

challenging because the kids just really

7:31

are uninterested in being in their

7:33

seat. They're so interested in

7:35

exploring every single thing around. But like,

7:38

you're just going to need to be ready

7:40

to like walk the aisles a little bit.

7:43

There's some aisle walking that I think will

7:45

be a part of that experience. And

7:47

are you opposed to screens? Right.

7:50

Great question. You know, that's a

7:52

whole, that is a different way of traveling.

7:54

I'm not. Honestly, I'm not opposed to

7:56

screens. And I mean, a lot of people are not

7:58

going to feel great about it. about this. I've been

8:00

sort of conditioning her. We are at three

8:02

quarters of a Disney film right now. To me,

8:06

it's that's when you bust out a screen. You've

8:09

got a screen when

8:11

you're traveling period. There's no

8:13

politics involved. I don't care

8:15

how many neuroscientists are

8:17

in the plane. You're putting

8:20

on a screen. Yeah, we think

8:22

we don't do screens in the

8:24

car on road trips because

8:26

I think our children

8:28

think it's not possible because we're

8:30

moving. We're like, obviously you can't

8:32

watch something in the car. That's

8:34

so smart, Dylan. Taking advantage

8:37

of their stupidity, you

8:40

only get a few years of that.

8:42

They don't totally get like what technology

8:44

can work in what space. We're just

8:46

sort of living in the world where

8:48

there aren't screens in the car. However,

8:50

on a plane, like we rip

8:53

it. It's like you can watch

8:55

basically whatever movie you want. That's

8:57

right. It can be something we

8:59

would just any other time

9:02

we'd be like, Oh my God, no,

9:04

we're not watching this. We're watching it.

9:06

It's a plane. Everything goes. Let's

9:12

get into Dylan's cart because I think this is

9:14

going to be eye opening for both of us.

9:16

Yeah. Let's talk about the headphones

9:19

that connect together. Oh, that's

9:21

just simple little thing. And they're the

9:24

ones we got are like really cheap.

9:26

They're not they're not super high end.

9:28

But but the thing about them is so

9:30

on a lot of flights now,

9:32

there's no seat back entertainment

9:34

anymore, right? They're like, the screens are

9:37

gone. And so you bring your own

9:40

phone, we bring a computer that's preloaded

9:42

with a bunch of movies we've downloaded

9:44

ahead. And then we've got headphones that

9:46

plug into each other. So they kind

9:48

of like daisy chain together. It's very

9:50

cute. And that way the

9:52

kids can both watch the same computer, listen

9:55

to the same movie, and

9:57

just be zoned in for that trip. And

10:00

they only come out on a trip. They

10:02

never see them any other time. So they're

10:04

kind of like this. The technology doesn't work.

10:06

Yes, I'm already outside of a plane. They

10:08

cease to function. That's correct. That's right. And

10:11

I kind of want some for like my

10:13

wife and I. It feels fun to watch

10:15

something together on a plane. I don't know.

10:17

Maybe that's weird. I would check in

10:19

with her. Because if you're

10:21

married to anyone like me, that's

10:26

a violent, violent moment.

10:28

It's a violation. Yeah. Yeah,

10:30

all right. All right. Fair enough. I

10:32

would say, yeah. But it

10:35

is cute when they are,

10:37

I love forcing siblings. Me

10:39

too, yes. To do things together. I

10:43

don't care. I don't care what

10:45

it is. Forcing them to do things together

10:48

is like my secret torture

10:50

pleasure. Dylan

10:53

and Suchin, I have a question. I

10:55

have added to cart a travel

10:58

car seat in that it's

11:00

lighter than the big Nuna one that

11:02

we have in my car. And

11:04

also a backpack

11:07

car seat travel bag. And

11:09

all this is here. And I'm looking at it.

11:11

And I'm like, that's a lot on my old

11:13

back. I'm an old mom. My husband's even older.

11:17

My question to you is, do I

11:20

keep it or do I return it? Because

11:22

now I'm finding when I go to Minnesota,

11:26

I can rent a seat. And

11:30

then also when we go to Aulani,

11:35

the Disney resort in Oahu, the

11:37

shuttle has a seat as well.

11:40

What do you guys think about

11:42

that? Obviously, it's

11:44

probably not going to be as clean as the

11:46

one I bring. But is it worth it to

11:48

not carry it on my back? Clean. It'll

11:51

be cleaner. It'll definitely be cleaner than the one

11:53

I bring. I never want to rent

11:55

things. To me, it's definitely cleaner than the one I bring.

11:57

I'm going to give my opinion first and then Dylan. you

12:00

give your opinion. I don't think you

12:02

should buy this thing. I think she'll return it.

12:04

It's too big. This is too cumbersome. Everywhere

12:07

you go now, there's going to be a

12:09

way for you to get a car seat.

12:11

So as long as that is comfortable for

12:13

her, to me, traveling with

12:15

a car seat just sucks. Okay, guys.

12:17

Thank you. It sucks so hard. I

12:20

can't tell you how good this is for me. I

12:23

have to say, what convinced me

12:25

to your point, Sujin, is in

12:27

the product page, three

12:30

or four photos down, they have a scale

12:32

photo of the mom carrying the thing. I

12:34

saw that. The size of a

12:36

small piano. It's so unbelievably

12:39

big. And I'm just picturing you

12:41

carrying this, well carrying your bags.

12:43

If you can rent a car

12:45

seat somewhere, rent the car seat.

12:47

Okay. All right. I'm looking at it

12:49

right now. It's inside this huge

12:51

box. And I really was like,

12:53

I was like, this is this doesn't because I

12:56

just want my husband, it's gonna be on my

12:58

back. Scott's not putting this on his

13:00

back. It's on my back. I'm our beast of

13:02

burden in our family. And it's like, I

13:05

don't want it. I don't want

13:07

it. This is so helpful. I really, really

13:09

appreciate it. Are

13:11

you traveling with like a pack and play? Are you

13:13

bringing a little bed? Or what are you doing about

13:16

that? That's the other giant object that I remember when

13:18

the kids were little just being like, Oh my god,

13:20

like we have to bring our own bed. I mean,

13:23

I, I have

13:25

one that folds down

13:27

pretty well. That can be a small

13:29

backpack. And then what I do is

13:31

on there's

13:34

a tent, basically a sleep pod that

13:36

goes over that. So

13:38

then it's completely blackout for her. And if we're

13:40

sharing the same room with a sound machine, it's

13:42

like we have two separate rooms. The blackout like

13:45

room is a great when we sleep in hotel

13:47

rooms, we still just go to bed at like

13:49

eight o'clock. It stinks. We're

13:51

like, okay, I guess it's time

13:54

for bed. Whispering

13:56

under the covers holding our phones under there.

14:00

I have so many pictures of me and my

14:02

husband dying

14:04

with laughter but trying not to

14:06

make any sound in a bathroom eating root

14:09

service. Yes. Just like

14:11

in the mirror pictures of us

14:13

like eating club sandwiches like crying

14:15

laughing because we just

14:17

cannot believe that this

14:19

small human has dictated such

14:22

measures in our lives that this is where

14:24

we are. Sometimes though after being with the

14:26

kiddos so early it's nice to just like

14:29

electively decide to not speak to one another

14:31

and be on our phones. Mm-hmm,

14:34

mm-hmm, that's true. I'm

14:37

over here trying to like plug our

14:39

headphones in together. I'm like, maybe I'll

14:42

be in the bathroom you idiot. No!

14:45

No! No! No! No!

14:49

No! No! No! No!

14:53

No! No! I'm

14:56

really, really interested

14:58

in your Remove from Cart Dylan and

15:00

uh, I mean let,

15:02

please sir launch

15:04

into this, launch into this hot

15:06

stance, this hot take. This is, this

15:09

is a very hot take and I know it's, we

15:11

need a sound effect here. I

15:16

know this is gonna get me in

15:18

trouble or I think we're gonna have a

15:20

heated debate about this but my Remove from

15:23

Cart is an entire

15:25

category of very popular

15:27

style of baggage called

15:29

roller bags and

15:32

listen, oh go ahead. No

15:35

I'm just, I'm sorry I gassed

15:37

audibly, go ahead. Now

15:41

I do, I currently, I do

15:43

travel with a giant roller bag.

15:45

We have one enormous roller bag

15:48

and we pack it full, all of my wife's

15:50

stuff is in there and then our kids stuff

15:52

goes in there too and it's like, it's packed

15:54

to the brim so it's always like exactly at

15:56

the weight limit. And

15:59

You know when the. We're little god we would

16:01

put we would pile the roller bag

16:03

with the pack in place the car

16:05

seat. They are not carrying their backpacks

16:07

when they're that little so their mothers

16:09

and it was just like this powering.

16:11

now I'm a beast of burden in

16:14

our families else is pushing all this

16:16

stuff. It's meanwhile everything I bring on

16:18

every trip. Fit. In one backpack

16:20

that fits either under the seat goes

16:22

under the seat. it goes up in

16:24

like a little space. Ah, Overhead is.

16:27

This. A thing about roller bags, I

16:29

understand they are very convenient, but like.

16:32

The. Like they always like are speeding rights

16:34

You know everyone pump in in with them

16:36

as and then when you get to your

16:38

place like what did you you've just packed

16:40

a backpack inside of your roller bags that

16:42

then you're like taking your stuff out and

16:44

putting it in. My kids always try to

16:46

ride the one big role or bag we've

16:48

had and like we've had to be like

16:50

know riding the roller back Nine eleven happened

16:52

for a little while because you could actually

16:54

move faster them and it allowed are you

16:57

get on level of our at the silent

16:59

hasn't. Had a child riding on a

17:01

general about are no apparent events.

17:03

salvage sitting on top of the

17:05

roller bags. especially in Hawaii. Coming

17:07

out of the Disney Aligning Hotel

17:09

now. So I am just maybe I'm like

17:11

hanging on to some. Last.

17:15

Youth. I like can't let it

17:17

go I can't I'm like ah like the

17:19

backpack traveler for but I'd this is me

17:21

This is maybe this is my my failure

17:23

to let go but a man roller rags

17:26

I can't deal on I I. I.

17:28

Can only I'm a backpack traveler.

17:30

Forever. I think Ah and Miller

17:32

had are now set. That the

17:34

you have all your items are in

17:37

the back as you said, owner Stan,

17:39

what about your handset skincare dylan at

17:41

where where? I

17:44

don't you know as. Yeah.

17:47

Odds of water at the hotel is already

17:50

there and they have a little since you

17:52

unwrap Like that's at least that's two steps

17:54

and. Assess

17:56

Assess Assess Assess. Assess

17:59

the facility, I am a minimalist.

18:01

I am a minimalist on packing. I try

18:03

and, you know, I roll

18:06

all the clothes. I get them in there

18:08

tight. Sometimes I've got a second pair of

18:11

shoes, like tied to the bottom. Like, I

18:13

mean, this meanwhile, my wife is

18:15

like, what? Like, come

18:17

on. She's like, you know, like, the

18:23

giant roller bag is filled with every other

18:25

single thing we need. So

18:27

I'm probably just being a fool,

18:29

but I can't. I just like

18:31

traveling with a backpack, you

18:33

get to your destination. You pull it

18:36

out from under your seat. You throw

18:38

it on your belt. The fantasy. You stride

18:40

off the plane out. You jump in a

18:42

cab. You don't even need to go to

18:44

the hotel first. You're just in your backpack.

18:46

You go to the thing. You know, you're

18:48

holding vomit, Dylan. Yeah. You

18:51

need your hands. Put it in the

18:53

backpack. Yeah,

18:56

exactly. Both hands free. I

18:58

can't be pulling a roller bag when you've also

19:00

got to be, like, in catcher position. Your backpack

19:02

days are in

19:05

the rearview. Oh, wow. Wow. You're

19:09

throwing a bucket of ice water on

19:11

Dylan right now, Sue. What if everyone

19:13

else's backpack days

19:19

are just coming right up?

19:21

What if we're entering all

19:23

backpack family travel for backpacks,

19:26

for people? Everything is a

19:28

carry on. Just imagine the

19:30

simplicity. That

19:32

that postcard. Wow. Wow.

19:36

Yeah. Yeah.

19:38

I don't know. I mean, I would love that. I'm just

19:41

like that world just

19:44

like is so far away

19:46

from me, but I like to dream. Like

19:49

to dream. Yeah. Like to dream. Well, my

19:51

wife should come in here and be like,

19:53

we 100% entirely depend on that giant roller

19:56

bag. Yes, of course. That's not. Yeah. your

20:00

headphone out of mine and grab

20:02

the corner of this suitcase. Yeah,

20:04

start pushing the bag. Yeah, start

20:06

pushing the bag. I mean, Michelle's not on

20:09

mic, but her presence is felt between

20:11

your words. Always.

20:14

Yeah, always, truly. Sue,

20:18

you are kind

20:20

of wrestling with buying roller

20:22

bags for your kids. Yes.

20:25

What's going on? Yeah,

20:28

OK, so I

20:31

just recently traveled solo with my

20:33

10-year-old daughter. And it was her

20:35

first time being in charge of

20:37

her own roller suitcase. Oh,

20:40

wow. Yeah. Just carry on. It

20:42

was a very short flight. And I said,

20:44

you are old enough now

20:46

to do it. She was so excited.

20:48

She packed her suitcase. I packed mine.

20:50

We had two little wheelies. And we

20:52

were just businesswomen going on a conference.

20:56

And we get through customs.

20:58

We do this. I'm rushing. And we

21:00

made it. And it was pretty easy

21:02

going. And I get the ticket for

21:04

the cab. I stand in line. I

21:06

don't speak the language. The guy comes

21:08

up. And I go to throw

21:10

my suitcase. And I go to throw her suit.

21:13

Her suit. Oh. Babe,

21:16

where's your suitcase? Uh,

21:20

so we have to backtrack through

21:22

International Airport. No, you didn't tell

21:24

me that. That's brutal.

21:27

That's so brutal. I had to

21:29

talk my way into customs, back

21:32

to the bathroom, back to the place

21:34

she had to get gum, I mean,

21:36

and find the suitcase. I

21:39

would love to invite you into

21:41

backpack world over here. There's this

21:43

amazing technology. It's very hard to

21:45

lose. It's attached to your body.

21:49

You know, surprisingly, all you miss, you know?

21:51

Now you're carrying three backpacks. That's true. I

21:53

love doing that. I'm already dragging two

21:56

suitcases. At least those have wheels. And

21:58

I can, you know. manage it.

22:00

At some point during a long trip,

22:02

she's going to be like, can you carry

22:04

my backpack? Yes. And so you

22:08

have to pack for that

22:10

and realize that at some point, this is

22:12

going to be your luggage. You know what

22:14

I mean? Like, I don't think I want

22:17

to be carrying three backpacks. Yes.

22:19

Instead, you'll be rolling two roller bags next to

22:21

each other. Two, and hey, that's what I did.

22:23

Yeah. Yeah. That's what I did. And it

22:26

was fine. It was fine. So that's

22:28

kind of where I am with with

22:30

luggage. Cool. What about you?

22:33

I'm guessing that you're your roller bagging. I'm

22:36

a roller bag. I mean, she's bringing in the apartment.

22:39

I'm a roller bagger. And I'm I'm I'm a

22:41

hard case or two. I like

22:43

the boundaries. I like the rigidity of

22:46

it. To me, I think things get

22:48

like banged up. And for things to

22:50

get to be banged up, it

22:52

needs to have a harder shell. That's

22:54

these are my theories. This is this

22:56

is how this is. I'm also describing

22:58

myself and my trauma.

23:01

Okay. So

23:05

what me and my suitcase are one. Yes.

23:07

Yes. I think me and my backpack are

23:09

one. Yeah. This is also yes. This is

23:11

about our true. This is about our psyches.

23:14

This is really this is true. This

23:16

is our psych. Wow, you guys. This

23:18

is a break through you guys.

23:20

This is me hanging on to

23:22

some notion of being like some

23:24

independent, you know, like solo travelers

23:26

zipping around the world while I'm

23:28

still pushing a giant roller bag

23:30

holding a pack and play sneakers

23:32

bumping into your butt because you've got them

23:35

tied to the bottom of your backpack. Yeah.

23:48

That was Suchan Pak and Kulaplaesak.

23:50

They are the aunties on Add

23:52

to Cart. Go subscribe to the

23:55

show. It is super fun. You'll be so glad

23:57

that you did. And if you like what you

23:59

heard, today they're gonna feature an extended

24:01

version of our conversation on the Add

24:03

to Cart feet. We get into the

24:06

just genuinely very weird and wonderful

24:09

contents of Sootrin and Cool Apps

24:11

carts. There is stuff that they

24:13

are using when they are traveling

24:16

that I just did

24:18

not know existed. They are in a

24:20

whole other level of

24:22

travel products and it is

24:24

worth hearing all about it.

24:31

Our podcast is a co-production

24:33

of Atlas Obscura and Stitcher

24:36

Studios. The production team includes

24:38

Doug Baldinger, Chris Naka, Camille

24:40

Stanley, Manolo Morales, Baudelaire, Gabby

24:42

Gladney, Johanna Mayer. Our technical

24:44

director is Casey Holford. This

24:46

episode was mixed by loose

24:48

Fleming. I'm doing thorough wishing

24:51

you all the wonder in

24:53

the world. I will see you.

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