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1:10

my question is to a lot of people, how

1:13

do a child know what love is

1:15

when no one never taught them love?

1:17

How do a person, a child know

1:19

what a mother and a father is

1:22

when they don't understand because they've never

1:24

been taught? We got to reach and

1:26

get them, teach them, show them, demonstrate

1:28

it, and let them be a part

1:31

of our family because this is what

1:33

God is calling for the church to

1:35

do. Bishop W.C.

1:37

Martin is an American pastor, author,

1:39

adoption advocate, and the inspiration for the

1:42

upcoming Angel Studios and Daily Wire Plus

1:44

film, The Sound of Hope. As the

1:46

pastor of Bennett Chapel Missionary Baptist Church

1:48

in Passamtra Texas, Bishop Martin and his

1:50

wife Donna adopted four children and ultimately

1:52

persuaded their entire community to do the

1:54

same. Ultimately, under Bishop Martin's spiritual leadership,

1:57

one small Texas town adopted 77 children and

2:00

into loving families. Today,

2:02

Martin leads the Church to Child Movement as

2:04

the founder of Saving a Generation Ministry, preaching across

2:06

the nation to move families to consider adoption. He

2:08

also serves as a national ambassador for the Global

2:11

Orphan Project, which works to administer

2:13

care to local children and equip orphans for

2:15

adulthood. In today's episode, Bishop Martin and I

2:17

discuss the problems within the current foster care

2:19

system and the role of the

2:21

church in successful adoption stories. Bishop Martin also shares

2:23

personal anecdotes about raising his adopted children and a

2:25

few behind the scenes moments from the

2:27

making of the movie. Don't miss this heartening conversation about

2:30

family and faith with Bishop W.C. Martin, the

2:32

real life inspiration for the upcoming Angel Studios

2:34

and Daily Wire Plus film, The Sound of

2:36

Hope. Welcome back to another episode of the

2:39

Sunday Special. Bishop

2:48

Martin, thank you so much for taking the time. Really appreciate

2:50

it. It's a blessing to be here. So

2:53

let's talk about your story. Obviously,

2:55

it's an unbelievable story now in the movie

2:57

Sound of Hope, but let's start at

2:59

the very beginning. What was your upbringing like? Well,

3:02

I, it was my

3:04

wife started this, you know, cause after

3:06

the death of her mother and all

3:09

of that, she

3:11

wanted to do, she told her, she said

3:13

that Lord spoke with her and told her

3:15

to give back to

3:17

a child that didn't have what her

3:20

mother gave them. And

3:22

it was kind of hard convincing me

3:24

in the beginning, but after I

3:26

saw that she wasn't gonna give up, I

3:29

decided that it was been at my best interest, you know,

3:31

to go ahead on and follow suit with what she wanted

3:33

to do. And once we

3:35

got in, I mean, my

3:37

whole life changed because I

3:40

did not know that all this

3:42

was going on in this

3:44

world. I had no clue. I thought

3:46

people always take care of their children. That was in my

3:48

mind. That was in my DNA. I just thought they'd take

3:50

care of children, but I was just

3:53

blown out of the water when I

3:55

found out about all of the

3:57

neglect and the abuse that was going on.

4:00

To me, that was like crazy stuff

4:02

that no one do anything like that.

4:04

You got to be able to be

4:07

insane to abuse a child that's helpless.

4:11

And that really touched my heart deeply.

4:13

And the percentages on abuse and mental illness

4:16

in the foster care system are just astonishing.

4:18

I mean, these are kids who have come

4:20

from the worst places, suffer some of the

4:22

worst conditions. Now, can you talk

4:24

a little bit about what exactly you found out

4:26

in this journey about what it's like for kids

4:28

in foster care? You know, it's got to be

4:30

total hell for me

4:33

to see life, the beauty of life,

4:36

and to look at what I have

4:38

witnessed in the eyes and

4:40

the mind and how the

4:42

abuse and the neglect and

4:45

the turmoil that have

4:47

happened. If anybody have any love

4:50

of God in their heart at all, this

4:53

will definitely do something to

4:55

you inwardly. This

4:57

will open you up to the point

4:59

to understand. My life wasn't

5:01

like that. I mean, I got nine brothers

5:03

and one sister and came up dirt poor

5:06

that if you didn't kill it, you didn't

5:08

eat it. If you didn't

5:10

raise it, you didn't eat it. But

5:13

at least I had food to eat. But

5:16

to see a child in

5:18

this United States, hungry,

5:21

I really believe that God got an indictment

5:24

against many of us that we

5:26

have not done due benevolent when

5:29

it came to the children. It

5:31

really tore me down. And

5:33

what it did, it made me aware that

5:36

if this is happening in our little

5:38

area, just to think what's going

5:40

on in this whole world and

5:42

that we are allowing this thing to

5:44

keep on going, keep on going, keep

5:47

on going, because the foster and adoptive

5:49

system is swelling every day. More and

5:51

more and more children going in, more

5:53

and more children being abused and being

5:56

neglected and that it's got to be

5:58

something. And I'm from beyond. This is

6:00

not a state problem. This is not the president

6:02

problem. This is not Congress problem. This

6:05

is the church responsibility to

6:07

make the difference in the life of a

6:10

child. So Bishop, it's one thing to look at

6:12

a problem and then it's another thing to do something

6:14

unbelievable like what you and your community have done. So

6:16

can you talk about how you came to that decision?

6:18

You mentioned it with your wife, essentially taking a foster

6:20

child into your home. You had kids of your own

6:22

already. That obviously

6:24

is a massive decision. I have four kids of my own.

6:26

The idea of bringing in a child into the dynamic that

6:30

I have with my kids, the amount of attention, the

6:32

amount of love and care that you have to lavish

6:35

on somebody who's already had such damage done to them, the

6:38

dynamic of the family that's so changed. Can

6:42

you talk about all of that? Here's the sad part. My

6:46

biological son was

6:49

born with severe brain damage. Now, if

6:51

you think about it, why would you bring in

6:53

other problems when

6:55

you already got a boatload right

6:57

there in their own home for what you already

7:00

got? But you know, sometimes I

7:02

think we have to look beyond ourselves and look beyond where

7:04

we are and to reach out

7:07

into this world. It more or less like

7:09

what Jesus did for us and the suffering

7:11

that he went through for us that

7:14

we may have a better life and a greater life. The

7:17

trauma of bringing a

7:20

child in your home, it's not an easy task. It's

7:22

not, and you don't get these Gerber babies.

7:24

You don't get those that don't have no

7:27

problem. All that, if you are in

7:29

the system, they got some problem. They got

7:31

some trauma, lying, stealing. I

7:34

mean, every conceivable thing you can, they can do it.

7:38

That age doesn't

7:40

matter because they have given

7:42

me a PhD in child psychology because we had

7:44

to deal with

7:46

so many different issues that they are having that

7:49

was going on in the life. But you know, I

7:52

look at this thing like this. I've,

7:55

many times, Lord, why would you

7:57

come into a place? like

8:00

possum trot to

8:02

show this country something. And

8:05

I think that the answer is that

8:08

God said, I'm coming to the least because

8:11

I'm bringing the least in and

8:13

I'm coming to those don't have no arterial

8:15

motive, but to show love

8:17

and compassion and wisdom and

8:19

knowledge and allow them

8:21

to have the freedom to

8:24

have a mother and a father. Because if you

8:26

ever come to possum trot, which I wish you

8:28

would call, you will see

8:30

ain't nothing out there but just woods. That's

8:33

all you see, trees and thickets.

8:35

That's all out there. Nothing

8:38

else out there. But you know, it's not

8:40

where you are. It's

8:42

what you're doing where you are. And

8:44

I thank God today that He has given

8:46

us a purpose in life that

8:49

we can show this world that if I

8:51

can do it in possum trot, you

8:53

can do it anywhere in this country. So Bishop,

8:55

maybe you can talk a little bit about the

8:57

kids that you adopted. What sort of issues did

8:59

they have? What was it like on a personal

9:01

level bringing them into your home? Well, it was

9:04

difficult, very difficult. It was very

9:06

hard. It wasn't easy at all. I

9:08

had to, you know, almost be a policeman

9:10

in my own household. My

9:13

first adopted son, he

9:15

went in the bathroom one day and he

9:17

was gonna burn up the garbage, but

9:20

he lit the fire right there in the bathroom.

9:23

And I just happened to walk down the hallway and

9:25

saw my bathroom on fire. And lo

9:27

and behold, it didn't burn the house down because I

9:29

caught it in time. My first

9:32

adopted daughter, she was

9:34

still like you wouldn't believe. And

9:36

I think that what it was, they had

9:39

been hungry and she

9:41

had to feed her little brother. So she had

9:43

to steal food out of store and she developed

9:45

this habit of stealing. But the thing

9:47

of it is, I don't fault

9:49

her. I don't look at her. It

9:51

wasn't her problem. This was

9:53

like opposed upon her

9:56

that she didn't deserve that.

9:58

But it was opposed. and posed upon

10:01

her that this wouldn't happen. But

10:03

she learned, and when we first got both

10:05

of them, my wife showed

10:07

her to the cabinet and showed her, look

10:11

at the food we got. Open the eyes,

10:13

Bob, look at the food we got. You

10:15

don't, or we ain't already heard about that

10:17

she was a very good thief, that she

10:19

could really steal and make you believe it

10:22

because she was so cute and she could

10:24

look in your eyes and make you believe

10:26

it, that she was not guilty. And all

10:28

the time that little girl was guilty as

10:30

I don't know what, because she did steal

10:32

that stuff. And the wing I found out

10:34

about it, I told my wife, I said,

10:37

something in this room just ain't right. And

10:39

the way they was sleeping, some of these

10:41

rooms, I don't feel, I just

10:43

know something ain't right. So I went in

10:45

there one morning after they went to school

10:47

and I turned that room upside down, looked

10:50

under the bed, there was a

10:52

backpack full of

10:54

old food that she had

10:57

just hoarded and put in

10:59

that backpack because she figured

11:01

that if she ever get

11:04

kicked out, she gonna have food to

11:06

eat in that backpack. Because after all,

11:08

her and her little brother was in

11:11

nine homes in one year. And

11:13

those children really went through hell. I

11:15

mean, they went through total

11:17

hell. I look at

11:20

some of the trauma that they

11:22

go through and I'm wondering how

11:24

we fit in a category of

11:26

going through so much hardship and so much

11:28

trauma, not knowing where you gonna

11:31

get your next meal in. And a child

11:33

that go through some stuff like that, man,

11:35

it's got to be criminal for any child

11:39

to experience a life like that.

11:42

So obviously the story started with you and

11:44

your wife, but then it expanded dramatically in

11:46

your community. Can you talk about how that

11:48

happened? Did people look at what you were

11:50

doing and they just wanted to copy you?

11:52

Or did you start preaching about it? What

11:54

exactly happened to turn your community into effectively

11:57

speaking the adoption capital of the United States?

12:00

our first two. There was one boy, a

12:02

little boy that came in before we were

12:04

the second one to get. The first little

12:06

boy that came in, my wife's sister got

12:08

him and his name was

12:10

Nino. And Nino came in and then

12:13

a month or two later we end

12:16

up getting Tyler and Mercedes. And

12:18

when we got Tyler and Mercedes, we carried them to

12:20

the church and everybody was, the members

12:23

started saying, how did y'all do this? What y'all

12:25

doing? How you doing? So they

12:27

said, we would like to do this. But

12:29

we can't, we had to drive 120 miles

12:32

round trip that take in

12:35

Texas what they call pride classes. And

12:38

we did that and we had to take like about

12:41

16 weeks of it. You go to class every week

12:44

and they teach you how to

12:46

deal with heart with children. So

12:48

after we did that, we got a little boy and

12:50

a little girl and getting them members start saying, we

12:52

would like to do that, but we can't drive 120

12:54

miles to get their

12:56

techno classes. So I

12:59

went to the state and asked them,

13:01

would they be willing to teach

13:03

classes in our church? And the lady told

13:05

me, she said, well, if you can get

13:07

me eight families, I'd be willing

13:09

to teach a class. But what I'd

13:11

done, I found

13:14

out that adoption was

13:16

not a manmade thing. It

13:19

was a God thing. Moses was

13:21

an adopted child. Esther

13:23

was an adopted child. Jesus,

13:25

a lot of folk don't believe,

13:27

but Jesus was an adopted child

13:30

because Joseph was not his biological

13:32

father. The Bible said that the

13:34

Holy Ghost told Joseph, don't

13:37

be afraid to take Mary as your

13:39

lawful way to work. That she is

13:41

caring is, is

13:43

holy. So I looked

13:46

up and then looked in Ephesians

13:48

and found out that all believers

13:51

who believe in God has been

13:53

adopted. So it wasn't a manmade

13:55

thing. It was a God thing. He started this because

13:57

he knew that we was going to be adopted. going

14:00

to need a way back to God. So

14:02

God himself created adoption. So I just started

14:04

preaching about it and telling them, and

14:07

I mean, I started preaching like a crazy

14:09

man up there about adoption and letting people

14:11

know the beauty of it and how God

14:14

adopted us and brought us back into a

14:16

loving family, into his royal family. And the

14:18

church called it and they called on. And

14:21

when I went back to the state, they

14:23

asked for eight families. The first time I

14:26

gave them 13 families who

14:28

was willing to adopt. The second time

14:30

I gave them the rest was made

14:33

up of 23 families that adopted and

14:35

we ended up with 77 children

14:38

in a small church, very

14:40

small, but out in the woods. And it

14:42

don't, if people look to do the math,

14:44

it don't add up. It just don't add

14:47

up. High on earth, because the

14:49

little church, out in the bushes, out

14:51

in the boondocks, out in nowhere, make

14:53

a move like this. Well, I tell

14:56

you, if God is for us, who

14:58

can be against us? If God said we

15:00

can do it, we did it without.

15:03

And it was not easy. And I'm

15:05

not gonna sit here and tell anyone

15:08

this was a easy road to home.

15:10

No, it wasn't. It was hard to

15:12

hold. But if you stay in the

15:14

process, if you say stay with it

15:17

and stay with God, he gonna make

15:19

it right and he gonna bring it through it.

15:21

So today we have, we don't have

15:24

any more in the community that I know of

15:26

because some got their own homes now. And

15:29

some of them in college have gone on and

15:32

made careers out of what they've done

15:35

and realized that they are somebody now.

15:37

They got an identity. And this is

15:39

what we need to do. We

15:42

address ourselves with God. And

15:44

he looked at us as being his

15:46

children. So God want us to do

15:48

the same thing, to reach out and

15:50

bring these children out of this system

15:53

and to teach them and to show them.

15:55

And my question is to a lot of people, how

15:58

do a child know what love is? is where no

16:01

one never taught them love. How do

16:03

a person, a child know what a

16:05

mother and a father is when they

16:07

don't understand because they've never been taught?

16:10

We got to reach and get them,

16:12

teach them, show them, demonstrate it, and

16:14

let them be a part of our

16:17

family because this is what God is

16:19

calling for the church to do. Well,

16:22

we'll get to more with Bishop Martin in just one moment. First,

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17:35

you must have an extraordinary community. Can you talk

17:37

about the families in your community? Because obviously you're

17:39

talking about the fact that it's not a rich

17:41

community, it's not a prominent community,

17:43

but it must be an unbelievably special community to

17:46

have so many parents who are willing to open

17:48

their homes like that and to

17:50

hear what you're talking about in terms

17:52

of biblical morality and then change their

17:54

lives so radically. Well, the

17:57

community is a very, very poor community. Very, very

17:59

poor. But instead of looking

18:01

at what we did not have,

18:04

we looked at what we had. I

18:07

believe to my soul and I saw

18:09

this work. It looked

18:12

like every time our back

18:14

got against the wall, God

18:16

made a way for us. It

18:18

looked like to me that, and I was

18:20

wanting to start this. Whenever

18:23

there was a problem, even

18:25

in the schools, they had

18:27

problems even in the school. And I

18:29

had to kind of visit all the school that

18:32

put files out all over Shelby County because

18:34

the kids were disrupted. They were doing stuff

18:37

and their parents couldn't do it, but I

18:39

had to go in and make a

18:41

difference in the lives of children. The community

18:44

itself rally around everybody.

18:47

If we call in the people

18:49

from Children Protective Services, they

18:51

were like about 60 miles each way from

18:54

us. So we had to

18:56

develop our own wraparound support group,

18:59

our own wraparound. We'd done that.

19:01

And when that was a problem

19:03

came up, we got together in

19:05

the church and we worked it

19:07

out and we supported one another.

19:09

We helped one another. We

19:11

shared one another with them. If there was

19:13

a parents who was really going through, my

19:16

wife and I went and picked that child

19:18

up and brought him in our home and

19:21

gave the plans a break. I

19:23

don't believe that no one would be willing to do anything

19:25

like that today. When you already got

19:27

problems in your home that you got your adopted

19:29

children, then I got my son, my biological son

19:31

with the problems he's got. I don't believe for

19:33

one to do anything like that. But you know

19:36

what? I'm just crazy enough to believe that

19:38

if we step out in faith and

19:40

show the love of God and demonstrate

19:42

that God will never leave us by

19:44

ourself, I'm just crazy enough to believe

19:47

that we will have the victory in

19:49

the name of Jesus. So

19:51

Bishop, what was it like finding

19:53

out that a major studio like Angel was gonna

19:55

be making a movie about you, about your community?

19:58

It almost turned my head. I mean, because

20:00

I know, look, we in

20:02

possum tribe. What

20:06

do you expect? A couple of

20:08

angels and the people that involved Josh and

20:11

Rebecca and Joe Kanetti that got

20:14

involved in this and worked tireless

20:16

hours. I mean, no, we

20:18

didn't have a clue. In fact,

20:20

to be honest with you, we never did get

20:22

in this in

20:24

the beginning for no publicity. We were just doing

20:26

what we thought people were doing. So to find

20:29

out where all the struggles and all the things

20:32

and then here it is 10 years since we

20:34

started in the movie business that

20:36

they started working on our story, Josh and Rebecca

20:38

started one 10 years ago. And

20:40

here we are in 2024, God done showed up and

20:46

letting this country know y'all get

20:49

ready because something is gonna

20:51

hit this country that's gonna just turn this

20:53

whole place around because

20:55

there's so much good stuff in this country and

20:58

so much good stuff inside that movie

21:00

that's gonna teach people, even getting along

21:02

with one another, helping us and even

21:04

removing racism and all of this gift

21:06

from stuff, all of that is involved

21:08

in the movie and how we all

21:10

are to care for the most vulnerable

21:12

just like Jesus cared for us and

21:14

showing us his greatness every day of

21:16

our life. I'm here today because of

21:18

his grace. I'm here today because of

21:20

his mercy. You are here today because,

21:22

and everyone else is here because God,

21:24

grace and mercy have kept us through

21:27

all of our heartaches and

21:29

we're still hearted and just like the

21:31

children. So what do we say? But

21:34

open up your door and say, come on in. So

21:37

are there any memorable moments during the

21:39

filming or during this entire decade long

21:41

production process that stand out to you?

21:43

There are a couple of things in

21:45

this movie. We don't call it

21:47

a movie, we call it a movement of God.

21:50

During the time that the bishop called everybody

21:52

that was going through so much and we've

21:54

been through that and he

21:56

called everybody to come and stand

21:59

around the crowd. cross. And

22:01

I always figured that we sing a song

22:03

that it was at the cross at

22:05

the cross when I first

22:07

saw the light and the burdens of

22:09

my heart was rolled away. It

22:11

was there by faith. I received my sight

22:14

and now I'm happy all day. We

22:16

sing this song a lot of time, but I'm

22:18

going to tell you something about standing around that

22:20

cross where Jesus died makes

22:23

a big difference. When he called

22:25

everybody to the cross and began

22:27

to pray and began to

22:29

seek God for the strength of

22:31

the peoples who are really going through because there was that

22:34

at a point all us one

22:36

time had thought about giving up, but

22:39

when we got together and prayed and

22:41

had prayer and prayed for one

22:43

another because prayer still works. And

22:46

when we did that, that was

22:48

one beautiful scene to me

22:51

that turned that whole, this

22:54

whole thing around. And then when

22:57

we looked at the end where

22:59

all of the families, the

23:01

real families got together and

23:04

had a party to me

23:06

that worked at all because what that

23:08

did, that demonstrated all

23:11

of the trouble, all of the pain, all

23:13

of the heartache. And at the end of

23:15

the road, there's sunshine, everybody

23:17

coming together and just enjoying

23:19

themselves and eating and rejoicing

23:21

and thanking God for what

23:24

he's done for us. And

23:26

even the children, they

23:28

are grown. They got their own children.

23:30

They're bringing them out and just letting

23:32

everybody see that, hey, look, I'm grown.

23:35

I got children and look, I got

23:37

my parents still with me and I'm

23:39

here to thank God. It was one

23:42

of the most beautiful times that we

23:44

ever got together and had in this

23:46

whole movement. Let's talk about what

23:48

happened to all those kids. So when it comes

23:50

to the number of children in foster care, hundreds

23:52

of thousands of kids in foster care, their

23:55

prospects are really, really dim in foster care,

23:57

the possibility that they're going to go on

23:59

and have successful healthy lives, given all the

24:01

abuse and trauma that they've suffered, really, really

24:04

dim, a lot of them fall between the

24:06

cracks of society, end up in criminality, drug

24:08

use, alcoholism, all sorts of problems. But, you

24:10

know, giving them a chance at life is

24:12

something your community did in a

24:14

way that no other community I've ever heard of

24:16

has. What was the impact on those kids? It

24:19

was so great because they now

24:22

know they have a lot of dentures. You

24:24

know, it was something so strange about the

24:27

children that we adopted. They

24:29

did not see themselves as adopted children.

24:32

They saw themselves as children

24:34

in their family, that that's their family. They've been

24:36

there all along. And perhaps

24:38

in the spirit, they have been there all

24:40

along. But it

24:43

meant so much to them to be

24:45

able to look at and

24:47

say, I got a mother

24:50

and I got a father. And

24:52

they have taught me what

24:54

life is really all about. This

24:57

is the beauty of what

24:59

Jesus showed us. I mean, He

25:01

showed us that in Him we have life. And

25:04

that's what these children feel. They feel like the

25:06

noun, you know, my mom and dad, I got

25:08

them. They're gonna look out for me. They're gonna

25:10

take care of me. And I got their grandchildren.

25:12

And it's just a beautiful thing. Even

25:15

some of the parents that are adopted,

25:18

they're gonna want to be with the

25:20

Lord. But the children still are there.

25:22

And they come back home and they

25:24

come and recognize and still believe and

25:26

still say, if it had not been

25:28

for them, we don't know where we'll

25:30

be. I was at a, we

25:33

did a screening in Dallas, Texas, here

25:35

a few weeks ago. And

25:37

one of the adopted children was there. And

25:40

it was so amazing. And she walked

25:42

up to me with tears in her eye. And

25:45

she told me, said, Bishop Martin, I

25:47

want to thank you for saving my

25:49

life. And this little girl, believe

25:52

it or not, she tried

25:54

to kill herself. She got a razor blade

25:56

one night after we left

25:58

church and just ripped her wrist open. and

26:00

just got all kind of those marches

26:02

on her wrist right now. She

26:05

got in college and

26:07

she got a bachelor's degree in

26:12

trauma therapy to teach other children that

26:14

they can make it. She's on her

26:16

way right now to get her master's

26:18

degree to know and let them know.

26:20

She said, I want to be able

26:22

to stand. I'm going to get an

26:25

office. I'm coming back to the community

26:27

and I want to share my gift

26:29

with those who are going through just

26:31

like me. See, this is the testimony

26:34

that what happened when we reach out,

26:36

to be honest with you, we don't

26:38

know what's locked in the system. We

26:41

got preachers and teachers and we got

26:43

psychiatrists and we got, I mean,

26:45

we got everything locked in the system,

26:48

but it will never come out until

26:50

we reach in and bring them out.

26:52

I'm a pastor, I'm a preacher. I

26:55

never would have known that if the Lord had

26:57

reached out and got me out of my mess

26:59

when I was in and I was a bad

27:01

little boy. I mean, if you tell me, if

27:04

you bet me, I'm going to do it. Where

27:06

my mama got all my behind or not, I'm

27:08

going to do it because that's the way I

27:10

was built. So I got that attitude right now

27:12

that nothing on this earth can stop me from

27:14

doing what I'm doing. And I don't let nothing

27:16

stop me. I'm crazy enough to believe that if

27:18

I go, if God tell me to go through

27:21

that door, I can go through it. I'm just

27:23

not crazy enough to believe that. The

27:25

children that we have now, they see the

27:27

beauty. They see that they got a home.

27:30

They see they got a father. They see

27:32

they got a mother. And they see that

27:34

they are being loved and cared for because

27:37

no child, this is not the will of

27:39

God that no child be locked

27:41

in a system. And I want to

27:43

add this. If the

27:45

church does not rise up

27:48

and fix this problem, God

27:51

got an indictment against all

27:53

of us. So I encourage 400,000

27:56

children out there. We

27:59

got way more church. on every corner,

28:01

and there should not be a child. It

28:04

ought to be churches ought to be waiting on children

28:06

instead of children waiting on a pimp. You

28:09

know, we need to reverse the

28:11

action. So I'm really praying and

28:13

seeking God. How can we

28:16

help this? And I really

28:18

believe that this movement, the

28:20

sound of hope, the possum

28:22

trot story, is gonna

28:24

cause hundreds and thousands of children

28:28

to find a lovely home, to

28:30

know that there was not, that was

28:32

not God's will in the beginning. It

28:34

was just a neglect and

28:37

oversight on the lives of people.

28:39

So Bishop, obviously very few people have dealt with

28:41

the foster system, the way that you've dealt with

28:43

the foster system. For those like me who don't

28:46

know much about the foster system and how it

28:48

actually operates, what are the biggest problems with the

28:50

way that the foster system is currently operating? I

28:53

think that the state need

28:55

to re-examine and

28:59

what they did and the way things

29:02

was set up 40 years ago,

29:04

it's not gonna work today. We're

29:06

in a different time, in a different season, in a

29:08

different era. You're gonna have to

29:11

change with time. And if you're

29:13

using the same rules and the

29:15

same thing that happened with my great-great-grandmom

29:17

and all that kind of stuff, that is

29:19

not gonna work. So there's need to

29:21

be a change. They need to

29:23

redo the rules. Those women, and I know

29:25

good and well that they

29:28

don't wanna see children come out

29:30

hurt and then find

29:32

going into more hurt. I understand that,

29:34

and it should not be. I think

29:36

parents should be streamlined. I think that

29:39

they should have a good record. I

29:41

think that they should have the type

29:43

of mindset that if I bring

29:45

this child in my home, it is my

29:47

responsibility to raise that child and love that

29:50

child and to help that child through life.

29:53

But if you make it hard, if

29:57

the state make it hard, people gonna

29:59

go... I said, look, I can't deal

30:01

with making this hard. That's

30:03

why I thank God for

30:06

the casework that we had. She

30:08

was one of them kind of caseworkers that she

30:10

called right, right, and wrong, wrong. Just because a

30:13

child walked up and told her, look, I want

30:15

to be moved. Her name was Susan Ramner. I

30:17

want to be moved out of this home. And

30:19

she knew that the parents was a good family. She

30:21

would tell them, say, look, you need to go

30:24

somewhere and sit down and start obeying.

30:26

She didn't just buy into that. And

30:28

we had one who just bought into

30:30

all of that. You can't do it

30:33

like that because these children do lie

30:35

and they do a good job of

30:37

it. And they'll make you believe what

30:39

they are saying. The foster system need

30:41

to be revamped and need

30:43

to be revived. While people are

30:45

able, good folk, good family, Christian

30:48

home can be able to get

30:50

these children out. If the

30:52

state want the children out, then don't

30:54

make it so difficult that people want

30:56

to give up before they even get

30:58

started. That's a bad sign. So I

31:00

think that for the most part, that

31:02

in the way they did us, we

31:05

had to foster six months

31:08

before we was able to adopt. And

31:10

after that six months, we moved

31:12

into the area of adoption and

31:15

they didn't waste no time. They went right

31:17

on and got us in the court and

31:19

got that thing done and over with because

31:23

it was no sense. And we done,

31:25

I think the state did a good job

31:28

in Texas in doing that. And

31:30

they didn't make it so hard. They kind of made it

31:32

easy. They done tightened up a whole lot now. I don't

31:34

know if they got children coming back in the system, but

31:37

we didn't let any of them go. We held

31:39

them children. We was not going to

31:41

let them go and we held on to

31:43

them. When we got Mercedes and Tollum,

31:45

the first thing my wife told them, I said,

31:47

look, I know you've been in nine homes in

31:50

one year, but I'm gonna let you know right

31:52

now, this the last train to Georgia. You

31:54

will not be leaving out of this

31:56

house. It's more Bishop Martin in

31:58

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now, blackriflecoffee.com. So Bishop, one of

32:53

the big issues, obviously, in the country is

32:55

abortion, a huge number of abortions every year.

32:57

One of the excuses that's used with

32:59

regard to abortion is, well, you know, if we don't

33:02

allow for massive abortion, kids are gonna end up in

33:04

the foster care system and they're gonna suffer

33:06

there. Maybe you can talk

33:08

about the impact of what your

33:10

community has done on that conversation, because obviously

33:12

what you're proving with your community is that

33:14

every kid deserves a chance and that every

33:16

life is worth living. Okay, let me, I'll

33:19

put it to you like this. The

33:21

last little boy that we got, I

33:24

think he was like about six years old, I

33:27

got a phone call, I had been out of state

33:29

somewhere, got back home, I got this phone call. The

33:31

lady say, is this the church that have been adopting

33:33

children? I said, yes, it is. She said, I got

33:36

a little boy and my daughter got

33:38

raped by her boyfriend and

33:41

she got pregnant and I

33:43

can't handle him and she's in college. Can

33:46

you all help us? I said, bring him on. This

33:49

to me is the answer to

33:52

abortion. Don't abort the

33:54

baby. Have the baby.

33:57

Somebody want that baby. But

34:00

if you kill that baby, you're

34:02

not giving that child a

34:04

right to live. And

34:07

then you are taking away something that

34:10

you're only having the authority in doing. My

34:12

Bible teach me that God given and God

34:14

take it away. Now, and we're

34:16

trying to do this thing on our own.

34:18

And anytime you do this on your own,

34:20

you always going to make mistakes. Let's,

34:24

let's, let's have the baby. If

34:28

you don't want the baby, put the

34:30

baby up. Somebody going to come through there

34:32

because everybody want a baby anyway. Nobody don't

34:34

want to adopt the older children. They want

34:36

babies. So why would you kill something that

34:38

somebody can raise and put some use and

34:41

good into our life that doesn't make sense

34:43

to me? And then you,

34:45

then God himself got

34:47

an indictment against you for doing

34:49

something like that because you, you

34:51

take in something that you can't give and

34:54

God is not pleased with that. So I

34:56

think for the most part, we

34:58

need to look at this thing from a different eye

35:01

and all of this abortion stuff.

35:04

If there's something dramatically wrong, what

35:06

is going to damage the woman

35:08

or damage the child? Maybe there's

35:11

another alternative, but just to

35:13

say, I didn't got pregnant. I don't want this

35:15

baby and give it that is not the

35:18

answer. The answer is having

35:20

a baby and putting a baby up

35:22

for adoption. And I'll tell you one

35:24

thing. I don't see how anybody

35:26

can give up their child. No way, because

35:29

the Bible said a woman go through second death

35:31

in heaven, children. So I don't see how you

35:33

can go through second death and give your child

35:35

up. I got one at the house

35:38

who had severe brain damage. The

35:40

doctor told me to award him to the state

35:43

and I refused because that's

35:45

my child God gave it to

35:47

me. God could have fixed his mind.

35:50

He could have fixed his problem. He's 43 years

35:52

old and still in the house for me. A

35:54

lot of things he can't even do for himself.

35:56

We have to do it for him and we

35:58

have to always make sure that he. He's taking

36:01

care and he's no problem. You know,

36:03

he love the Lord. I mean, he just, that's

36:05

the way he is. But the thing of it, what

36:07

if we just gave him to the state? He'd

36:10

have been the same, doing the

36:12

same thing everybody else doing. But you know, I

36:14

look at this thing from a different

36:16

way. And my thing is, is

36:18

this, let's change this

36:21

thing. Let's change

36:23

it up. We can't continue to do

36:25

it the way it's been done because it's wrong.

36:28

We got to fix this problem. And

36:30

the way we fix the problem is to

36:33

get involved. Everybody cannot

36:35

adopt. Everybody can't foster,

36:37

but everybody can be part

36:39

of and help them. This

36:42

process, if you can't do nothing, just pick

36:44

them up and take them out and buy them some french fries,

36:46

anything. Let's do this thing. Cause

36:48

we are able and qualified to do it because

36:50

God said so. You know, Bishop, one of the

36:52

things that comes through so clearly, not only when

36:55

you're talking, but also in the movie, is that

36:57

it's very easy for people in society to say

36:59

things like, well, let's just go do some good.

37:01

Let's just be nice. But without an orientation toward

37:04

God, this stuff just doesn't happen. Until

37:06

you have a community that's oriented toward fulfilling God's

37:08

will, you can tell people to be as nice

37:10

as you want, tell people to be as giving

37:12

as you want to tell them to be, but

37:15

people are very unlikely to take that step unless

37:17

they believe firmly in a higher power that

37:19

believes in them and has given them the ability to

37:21

do something. You are so right on

37:24

that. Because see, what is

37:26

the other? Believe in

37:28

God, change the

37:30

dynamic of your whole life.

37:33

Believe in God, we'll let

37:35

you know who you are, what

37:38

you are qualified to do. The

37:41

Bible said that God called us out

37:43

of darkness into the marvelous light. And

37:46

if God called us out of darkness into the

37:48

marvelous, He got purpose. Everybody

37:51

that God calls has purpose.

37:54

You may not be a preacher, you may not

37:56

be a teacher, you may not be this, I'm

37:59

Deacon or whatever. or whatever, but

38:01

God got a purpose. We got a

38:03

young lady in our church. She

38:05

loved keeping the church clean. She loved

38:08

doing it. And she goes down

38:10

there and spend hours in that church, just

38:13

cleaning and wiping and all that kind

38:15

of, she loved doing that because why?

38:17

That's her purpose. That's what she designed

38:19

to do. The purpose

38:21

of God and everything, the

38:23

Bible says everything that God done was

38:25

good. And in the good

38:28

that was purpose developed in that good.

38:31

And when I

38:33

was raised up, little

38:36

barefoot boy, getting into everything and

38:40

stealing wall of millers and

38:42

all of that kind of stuff out of people garden,

38:44

cause I paid the price for it dearly. But

38:47

the thing of it is, I never

38:49

dreamed that here I

38:51

am, a 77 year old man in

38:54

a place that I am right now. And

38:57

where I am right now, I love it. I

39:00

thank God for it. I want trade. I

39:02

thank God so much from the depths of

39:04

my heart that he opened the

39:07

doors up. I don't have to open my

39:09

own door when I trust God. You see,

39:11

that's the beauty of trusting God. He the

39:13

one that makes the way. He the one

39:16

that opened the way. He the one that

39:18

does everything. So when you got people's and

39:20

when you are preaching and demonstrating the power

39:22

and the love of God and the life

39:24

of people and that they began to catch

39:27

that vision, they would know then

39:29

I can do all things through Christ Jesus

39:31

that strengthen me. Ain't no shame in it.

39:33

It's just something that you do. I

39:35

mean, look, we got the power to

39:38

do this. We got the power

39:40

to do it. We all are somebody in

39:42

Christ's name. The Bible said that he

39:44

called the sun to shine on the

39:47

gels as well as the ungels. So

39:49

let's get together. Let's fix this problem.

39:52

Let's empty this system out. Let's

39:54

open up our hearts, our mind

39:56

and our home and say, I

39:58

don't care what's there. I'm

40:00

going to go out here and do

40:02

the will of God. And I guarantee

40:04

you, when you do it, you're gonna

40:06

see the movement of God in your

40:08

life like never before. It's easy

40:10

for us to look at the one

40:12

that we got. But don't you

40:15

know that we ought to be Christlike? He

40:17

went all out of his way for somebody else.

40:19

And that's the same thing we ought to be

40:21

doing today. Bishop, one of the extraordinary

40:24

things about what you've done in the movie and everything

40:26

else is that we live in a time in America

40:28

where there's so much focus on, say, race and

40:30

divisions based on race. What you've

40:32

talked about this entire time is just about doing

40:34

God's good, doing the virtuous and the right thing

40:36

because God said to do that. And that's race

40:39

blind. That has nothing to do with race. And

40:41

so it really is in God that we're able

40:43

to move beyond race and move

40:45

above race. And you know, I don't

40:48

know why. And

40:50

this is, you know, to be honest with you, racism

40:55

is so demonic because

40:57

that's the way the enemy does. He's

40:59

there to divide. God

41:02

there to bring us together. So

41:04

I don't understand why

41:07

is it that an individual

41:10

would dislike another individual because

41:12

his hair is not right or

41:15

not the same color or not

41:17

that. These, all this stuff is

41:19

manmade. But he's the kid, the

41:22

kicker. Jesus died for

41:24

the sin and for the ungodless. And

41:27

he died that we may have a right to the

41:30

tree of life. And what did

41:32

John three say? For God so loved the world,

41:35

he gave his only begotten son. So how

41:37

we think that we gonna get back to

41:39

God with hatred and malice in our heart,

41:41

it just ain't gonna happen. Jesus

41:43

want us to love one another. That's

41:46

what he died for. To show us

41:48

that we all to love each other,

41:51

help each other. And it ain't about

41:53

who you are or what you got.

41:55

It's about all about love. And he

41:57

demonstrated to them. So I don't understand.

42:00

why this is such a problem. And I will

42:02

say this to the, I will

42:04

say this in the White House, to the outhouse,

42:06

to any other house. Jesus died

42:08

for love. And you

42:10

are not gonna get to heaven until

42:13

you start loving your brothers and your

42:15

sisters. And knowing that they, God, got

42:17

purpose in their life, it may not

42:19

be the same as yours, but it

42:21

got God's purpose in their life regardless

42:23

of what color they are. I mean,

42:26

God, it was his purpose that

42:28

we moved to adopt all these children. That

42:30

was God's purpose. We wouldn't have known that,

42:33

but the only thing we done was just

42:35

went on with the process and let God

42:37

be God. And this is what this country

42:39

need to do. They need a wake up

42:41

call. First of all, you can't do this

42:43

until you get some of this mess out

42:45

of your heart. And this is

42:48

what God does. He comes in there.

42:50

Paul said God circumcised the heart. In

42:52

other words, he cut all of this

42:54

stuff away and give us

42:56

a new heart. He moved his throne

42:59

a heart and give us a heart

43:01

of love. That's what he does. And

43:03

until we get to that point and

43:05

reach that point in our life, said,

43:07

look, I don't care what color him,

43:09

he can be in Bhuvah, Tanya, Halifax.

43:11

It mueshew, it don't matter. That's still,

43:14

those are still my brothers and

43:16

my sister. It is not for me

43:18

to judge anyone because he

43:20

deserved the right to the judge. He is

43:23

the righteous judge. So it's not for me

43:25

to judge who I can't do that. But

43:27

all I know one thing, that

43:29

one day we got to stand

43:31

before God and we got to

43:34

give an account of

43:36

not doing what the Lord said do.

43:38

Well, Bishop, it's an unbelievable story. Thank you for

43:40

what you're doing for the world. The movie is

43:42

terrific, obviously. I've seen it, can't wait for it

43:45

to hit theaters. So millions of people across the

43:47

country can see it, engage, make the world a

43:49

better place. Bishop, thanks again for the time. Thanks

43:51

so much for what you're doing. God bless you.

43:53

And we are praying that this movie will reach

43:56

the hearts of many and bring hundreds and thousands

43:58

of children and give them a chance. right

44:00

to live that did that same thing

44:02

that God want them to have. God

44:04

bless you. Are

44:13

you sure these people want us? I

44:16

know they do. You can call me mama. Oh,

44:22

Lord. If

44:28

we can't wrap our arms around the most

44:30

vulnerable, then what do we have? Noise! And

44:33

the children can't take the noise anymore. The

44:43

Ben Shapiro Sunday special is produced by Savannah

44:45

Morris and Matt Kemp. Associate producers

44:47

are Jake Pollak and John Crick. Editing

44:50

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44:54

is by Zach Ginta. Hair, makeup and

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wardrobe by Fabiola Christina. Title

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graphics are by Cynthia Angulo. Executive

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assistant Kelly Carvalho. Executive

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in charge of production is David Wormus. Executive

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producer Justin Siegel. Executive producer

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Jeremy Boring. The Ben Shapiro

45:10

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