0:01

This is exactly right. For

0:07

Give Me For Interrupting, I'm Bridger Weininger, host of

0:10

I Said No Gifts on Exactly Right. Each

0:12

week I invite my favorite people in comedy

0:14

over to chat, and they always bring a

0:16

gift. We're coming up on our 200th episode,

0:19

and every episode is a gem. I

0:21

have welcomed all kinds of great guests, including

0:23

Cola Scola, Bowen Yang, Robbie Hoffman, that goes

0:25

on and on and on, and you don't

0:27

want to miss the 200th episode with the

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great Maria Bamford. What does she bring me?

0:32

Find out April 25th. New

0:34

episodes every Thursday. Follow I Said No Gifts

0:36

wherever you get your podcasts. I

0:43

want to talk to you about the King's

0:45

Heart, and how it ended up where

0:47

it did. So remember that

0:49

after Boris died in 1943, the

0:53

official cause of death was given

0:55

as Cardiac Arrest, but

0:57

a few of the doctors tending the King

0:59

on his sickbed firmly believed

1:02

he'd been poisoned. Now,

1:05

for religious and emotional reasons,

1:07

the Queen didn't want an

1:09

autopsy performed, but

1:11

during the embalming process of the King's

1:13

body, a mini

1:15

autopsy was performed on

1:18

his heart. And

1:21

somehow, when the King was buried

1:23

at the Rila Monastery, his

1:26

heart was not replaced inside

1:28

his chest. You'll

1:30

probably recall that the King was kicked out

1:33

of his Rila resting place by the

1:35

new Soviet regime in 1946. They

1:39

didn't much care for all the

1:41

nationalist fervor his tomb inspired, and

1:44

a new grave was dug for him

1:46

at Vrana. Just after

1:48

the Queen and the Royal Children, Simeon

1:50

and Maria Luisa were sent into exile,

1:52

the tomb was dug up once

1:55

more, and the

1:57

King's body went missing.

2:00

Never to be found again. But

2:10

in 1991 his heart suddenly

2:12

turned up in

2:15

a pickle jar, allegedly in

2:17

the empty grave, but

2:19

more probably on a dusty shelf of

2:22

a medical institute. Okay

2:25

now in the last chapter we just

2:28

received a cryptic voicemail from

2:30

someone inviting us to meet up

2:32

with him to talk about the

2:34

butterfly king's mysterious death. He

2:37

was addressing his message to EJ, my

2:40

producer. So

2:47

that voice belongs to a man called

2:49

Dr. Deutschnopf. He's well into his 90s

2:52

and has Parkinson's.

2:54

He remembers King Boris's death. He was

2:56

in his early teens when the king

2:59

died. But that's not really what

3:01

he wants to chat about. He's

3:09

telling me he'd be fascinated to meet

3:11

an English journalist looking

3:14

into the death of the king.

3:16

Thanks again and I

3:18

hope to see you. Why

3:21

are we so happy to receive this message? Because

3:24

Dr. Deutschnopf is actually the one

3:26

witness we thought would never agree

3:29

to speak out. Because

3:32

that pickle jar that showed up in the

3:34

early 1990s, the

3:36

one that turned out to contain King

3:38

Boris's heart, well

3:41

the doctor who examined that royal

3:43

heart was Dr.

3:46

Deutschnopf. From

3:53

Blanchard House and exactly right

3:55

media, this is

3:57

the butterfly king. I'm Becky Milligan.

4:39

Chapter 7 The Heart

4:41

of the Matter We

4:46

have a lot of trees that shouldn't be

4:48

here. Because

4:50

the dying trees spreading disease

4:53

and kill more trees. We're

4:56

taking a guided tour around the

4:58

grounds of Rana Palace with the

5:00

King's suave and charming aide, Yavo.

5:03

He's almost as knowledgeable about trees

5:05

and plants as King Boris himself

5:07

was. And now you see there

5:09

is a fallen tree on the road. I

5:12

will call now the garden to cut it. It's

5:15

dangerous, secondly it's ugly

5:17

and it's spread disease. Sickness

5:21

and disease seem to be the order of the

5:23

day. They're really in Sofia

5:25

to meet pathologist Dr Deutschenuf. But

5:29

unfortunately that meeting isn't to be

5:31

just yet. Because poor

5:33

Dr Deutschenuf goes down with Covid.

5:36

And as he's now in his 90s,

5:38

we can't push for an interview until

5:40

he's completely recovered. But

5:43

we speak to the doctor's daughter-in-law on the

5:45

phone. She tells us

5:47

Dr Deutschenuf is even more disappointed than

5:50

we are. Apparently he has

5:52

so much he wants to tell us. So

5:55

much he needs to tell us. But

5:57

all we can do is be patient And

5:59

wait. And of course,

6:01

spending. Time with the of or

6:04

is always a lovely destruction. It's

6:06

a fool. Of mushroom for in

6:08

the Gaza mother is animals oath

6:10

in the got them Now they

6:13

have years officers so I was

6:15

elephant not anymore. Folksy.

6:18

Fat and and Boris his father used

6:21

to keep a smooth zoo in the

6:23

grounds of from the buffaloes, exotic birds,

6:26

And Allison's. With

6:28

the after the accident with the elephant. Say

6:31

movies in the sense of was

6:34

houses as as we're not sure,

6:36

but probably one of the people

6:38

that they said about the elephant

6:41

only V or something. Samantha? Yes

6:43

and yes, right? My hands

6:45

is this doesn't end too well for

6:48

the elephant. Cheaper and one morning

6:50

when this for some go

6:52

inside the cage. the elephant.

6:56

Elephant just without say anything. So

6:58

who's the men on the low

7:00

front of him? Smash

7:03

him like of them. So.

7:08

That we have the royal palaces

7:10

first. Sort of murder. But was

7:12

it really the only matter? I

7:14

mean, so many people hated King

7:17

Boris and wanted him dead. A

7:19

heart attack seems like a convenient

7:21

excuse. Sometimes.

7:24

In an investigation like this one,

7:26

you get the most extraordinary stripes

7:29

of luck finding a document and

7:31

some old dusty library and overlooked

7:33

paper that gives you a brand

7:35

new lead or a new witness

7:37

suddenly springs up from nowhere and

7:40

take so case in whole new.

7:42

Direction. But. Sometimes

7:44

difficult things happen which

7:46

completely throw you off

7:48

course. And today is

7:50

one of those. Days. We've. Just

7:53

received a text message from top

7:55

to toe. It's an astute Rendell

7:57

Maya and it contains some. Stating

8:00

nice. I'm going to read it

8:02

to you. Unfortunately,

8:05

Doctor Deutsche and have passed

8:07

away peacefully this morning. He.

8:09

Wanted to meet you so much. West.

8:14

So sorry for.tightness family and the

8:16

last few weeks we've been in

8:18

regular contact with them and they

8:20

quite often mentioned that the prospect

8:22

of talking to us and getting

8:25

the chance to tell his side

8:27

of King Boris's story was what

8:29

was keeping.to Deutsche and of allies.

8:32

But. Now of course, we'll never know

8:34

exactly what. He was burning to tell

8:36

us he didn't share. Those details with

8:38

his family and understandably, they've declined

8:41

to do an interview with us.

8:44

They're. Not only grieving, they don't want

8:46

to second guess him, They don't

8:48

want to put words into his

8:50

mouth. But. What we do

8:52

Know. Is. This. Post.

8:56

Yourself back in time. To

8:58

a medical lab in Sofia.

9:01

October Nineteen Ninety One and

9:03

a man in his early

9:05

sixties is hunched over a

9:07

microscope. He wears a

9:09

white coat and his studying something

9:11

closely. Before

9:14

him on the table is

9:16

a glass jar. the source

9:18

of Lords jaw you'd stored

9:20

jam in may be tickled.

9:23

There's no label on the job,

9:26

but you don't really need a

9:28

medical degree to recognize what's inside

9:30

it because floating in the clear,

9:33

preserving the. Truth is

9:35

I have a

9:37

human hearts. On

9:40

the workbench six a small at

9:42

last file. this a scrap of

9:45

paper inside it. It means

9:47

the hearts of his majesty King

9:49

Forest the third and it signed

9:51

by the Bulgarian doctors who tend

9:53

to demonic in his final hours

9:56

to claim the cause of death

9:58

was a cardiac arrest. The

10:02

pathologist in the lab coat has spent

10:05

hours examining and measuring the

10:07

heart. There's no doubt

10:09

it's the royal heart. Its

10:11

description perfectly matches the

10:13

autopsy report, written in 1943. But

10:18

it's almost 50 years since that

10:20

document was typed, and

10:22

in that time, science has moved

10:24

on considerably. As

10:27

the pathologist sits back and begins to write

10:30

up his notes, you can read

10:32

the name badge pinned to his lapel. Dr.

10:35

Deutschen Deutschenauf. He's

10:38

smiling because Dr. Deutschenauf has

10:40

carried out exhaustive tests on

10:42

the king's heart, and

10:45

he's made a huge discovery. He

10:49

now knows exactly what killed

10:51

King Boris. He has scientific

10:54

proof, and he can

10:56

sum up his findings in just

10:58

two small words. Heart

11:05

attack. He

11:07

can find no trace of poison, and

11:09

no signs of foul play. Dr.

11:12

Deutschenauf concludes that King

11:14

Boris III of Bulgaria. Died

11:17

a natural death. After

11:25

all the decades of theories,

11:27

speculation and finger pointing, is

11:30

it possible that this isn't a case

11:32

of murder after all? We'll

11:36

never know if Dr. Deutschenauf had more

11:38

specific information he wanted to disclose to

11:41

us. We just know he

11:43

believed the king died of a heart attack. So

11:46

I've decided to talk over his

11:48

findings with another forensic pathologist, to

11:51

try and understand what a pathologist really

11:53

does. What someone like Dr.

11:55

Deutschenauf would have been looking for. So I want

11:57

to introduce You to someone who has

12:00

been a part of the world.

12:02

you met briefly and are very

12:04

says chapter Doctor Stewart Hamilton. He's

12:06

fascinated by how the body works

12:08

and how it goes wrong. He's.

12:11

Not quite so bothered about his

12:13

bedside manner, though. I

12:15

am not particularly good with

12:18

poorly people. Which. Is

12:20

somewhat unfortunate. so my patients

12:22

are very, very quiet. As

12:25

quiet as the grave, in

12:27

fact, don't to Hamilton has.

12:29

Been working with the Dead so the

12:32

past twenty years or should I say.

12:34

On the Dead. So.

12:36

Our main role is to

12:39

examine bodies in cases of

12:41

suspicious deaths or homicides. We

12:43

investigate as best we can

12:46

watch the cause of death

12:48

might be made. I'm honest,

12:50

it sounds a bit gruesome.

12:52

It is gruesome eighties examining

12:55

and cause again to that

12:57

human beings as a day

12:59

job. Gruesome. For

13:02

sure, but essential said.

13:04

That the living get home says and the

13:06

dead can rest in peace. So.

13:09

Let's imagine King Boris had ended

13:12

up on talk to Hamilton's

13:14

marble slab. What proof would he

13:16

need to confirm that the Monique

13:19

had indeed died of a

13:21

simple cardiac arrest? A

13:23

heart attack to a doctor

13:25

to a pathologist is also

13:27

known as myocardial infarction and

13:29

that means that last part

13:31

of the muscle of your

13:33

heart is not receiving enough

13:35

blood for it to stay

13:37

alive. And that

13:40

means that the muscle will die

13:42

and as thought is enough damage.

13:44

It can kill the person that

13:46

defenseless. Stop the hardworking. Stopped the

13:49

pump working. So. That's fairly

13:51

clear. know pump, no pulse,

13:54

But more makes that heart muscle

13:56

die. Because. Fatty deposits

13:58

building up, In the arteries

14:01

and supply the heart itself, they

14:03

become narrowed. And they

14:05

don't last as much blood through

14:07

as they should not can produce

14:10

symptoms such as angina that chest

14:12

pain on exertion. Hang on

14:14

a second. Tell me a little

14:16

more about Angelina. Angina

14:19

is. A warning signs

14:21

for a heart attack. That's.

14:25

What I see. It. Remember.

14:28

How can borrow think signing with

14:31

his brother Carol after that dreadful

14:33

final meeting? With that, we know

14:35

he was in fairy low spirits

14:37

that he fell sick and the

14:39

he was suffering from bad chest

14:41

pain. Well, here's Doctor Hamilton's description

14:44

of how someone would seal in

14:46

the early stages of a heart

14:48

attack. You have

14:50

crushing chest pain as this

14:52

was a metal band around

14:54

your chest crush it gets.

14:56

The pain will often go

14:58

down your arms to make

15:00

open to er. Jo sweating

15:02

assume knows the earth. Some

15:04

people even scribe a feeling

15:06

of impending doom. Or

15:12

six sided and his wife and

15:14

in his brother and sister that

15:16

he said he was suffering from

15:18

angina pectoris and that he said

15:20

he'd die from it. How did

15:23

the King guess this? I mean

15:25

it was nineteen forty three way

15:27

before the internet and talk to

15:29

do go. He must have consulted.

15:31

Specialist for the diagnosis.

15:35

And that unsettles me. Because

15:38

if he was suffering from on

15:40

that them pushed himself to his

15:42

physical limits climbing mountains, A

15:45

heart attack seems less

15:47

surprising, less suspicious. Plus.

15:50

The time frameworks. Some.

15:53

People may die straight away. Some people

15:55

may survive a day or so. Some

15:57

people may survive two or three weeks.

16:00

Hang on a heck, let's remember that

16:02

Boris was a bit of a health

16:04

freak. I mean okay, he wasn't pumping

16:06

iron and the to him every two

16:08

minutes but he was extremely sit. And

16:11

someone who takes regular exercise and who

16:13

eat healthily is fairly well insured against

16:15

heart failure. Mode. That.

16:18

sort of. My boys. Remember. Tunnel

16:20

home as Hell chemical weapons expert who

16:22

served. For twenty three days in the

16:24

Pushes Army. Well. To say he

16:26

is a sickness synaptic is a bit

16:28

of an understatement. As a younger man,

16:31

he actually held the world. Pushups

16:33

was but. While.

16:35

I have sudden cardiac death syndrome.

16:38

Which. Is a a geodesic called

16:41

conditions for those things that if

16:43

you know about it you can

16:45

do things about it on a

16:47

few days then. That's. Very

16:50

sadly when when things go wrong.

16:52

thinking. About Boris he was very said

16:54

he was a mountaineer. I

16:57

he's not walking. He loved getting out in

16:59

the wilds shooting hunting. He was that type

17:01

ss kidding it's and in that way he

17:03

could is it could have been a natural

17:06

death is he'd had a condition that we

17:08

just don't know about. Absolutely and new

17:10

know he had a condition like mine all

17:12

was sort of things he good. Would.

17:14

Potentially. In eight. Liters

17:17

demise and a in those days people

17:19

do a very much about and condition

17:22

so. Now. I'm didn't do very much

17:24

boss it. Could. The king

17:26

have had some kind of hot

17:28

de sacs, a congenital problem from

17:31

birth that was a ticking time

17:33

bomb waiting to explode. I

17:36

can't help thinking about something

17:38

I learned bit further. Indiscreet

17:40

historian Tessa Dunlop said about

17:42

the sell a genetic pool

17:44

that European royal family said

17:46

at the time. Later.

17:48

Them were in bread and that. and if

17:50

you weird you know dickey hearts and stuff

17:52

like that com tamimi know that Boris to

17:54

the nose like that's probably had a few

17:56

of us mouse the masons, the ones that.

17:58

efforts presence included the left

18:00

cavity of his heart or is it

18:02

a chamber? It is a chamber, but

18:04

there's no way I was going to

18:06

mention a subject like inbreeding with King

18:08

Boris' son Simeon. But

18:10

actually, he brought it up. All

18:14

the royal families at one

18:16

point were intermarried, related, always

18:20

among themselves, which in

18:22

a way was till the generation of my

18:25

parents. It really was. Well,

18:27

it means you really cannot ask a

18:29

king, even a sort of

18:32

king like Simeon, about the state of his

18:34

health. But here's what I'm

18:36

thinking. If there was a

18:38

heart problem in Boris' family, it

18:40

probably would have been passed down the

18:42

line to Maria Louisa or Simeon, who

18:45

are 90 and 86

18:47

respectively, and still going

18:49

strong. Did

18:52

my father die from a massive heart

18:55

attack? Fine. I mean, it happens and

18:57

this is still an open question. I

19:00

don't mention it because I have

19:02

no rational proof. But

19:05

did the doctors who performed Boris' autopsy in

19:07

1943 have proof? How did they, or

19:12

even Dr Deutschenhof, nearly 50 years

19:15

later, know they were making the

19:17

right call? Dr

19:19

Stuart Hamilton, our forensic pathologist.

19:23

It's one of those things that

19:25

the naked eye examination can identify

19:28

straight away. There

19:30

will be changes that you can see

19:32

down the microscope. So you will start

19:35

with inflammation in the heart, and then

19:37

you will see the dead muscle starting

19:39

to be eaten away and replaced with

19:41

early scar tissue. So

19:44

again, for a true heart

19:46

attack, the findings

19:48

are quite specific and

19:50

quite clear. So

19:54

was the official cause of death correct

19:56

all along? The science

19:58

now seems to be up in its

20:01

favour. But Boris

20:03

wasn't even 50. You're

20:06

presuming that it's not possible for a man to die

20:08

of a weak heart. In 1943 aged 49,

20:10

I would like to point out to you that at

20:13

the turn of the 20th century the average American

20:15

male lived to the age of 49. It's not

20:18

such a devastatingly awful age to live to in

20:21

the middle of a war. Tessa's

20:23

not the only cynic. Dr

20:25

Stuart Hamilton thinks Boris could have

20:27

just been unlucky in the genetic

20:29

lottery. As a pathologist you

20:32

can become very cynical. You

20:34

deal with people who live to

20:36

85 having drunk and smoked and

20:39

lived on chips and crisps and

20:42

die happily in their beds. And

20:44

you deal with 50-year-olds who collapse

20:47

on the treadmill at the gym.

20:49

So we can't rule out that

20:52

it's just plain unlucky. But

20:54

Simeon can't rule it in. All

20:57

this is, again,

21:00

it's just conjectures. I like

21:02

facts. Well,

21:08

here are two undeniable facts.

21:11

In the middle of the Second World

21:13

War with Bulgaria's precarious future in his

21:15

hands, King Boris must have

21:17

been stressed out of his brain. And

21:20

heart attacks and stress? Well,

21:23

everyone knows. They go hand in

21:25

hand. Stress is

21:27

a very

21:29

well-recognised factor

21:31

to precipitate a heart

21:33

attack. And that

21:36

awful meeting with Hitler could have been the

21:38

straw that broke the camel's back. We

21:40

know he couldn't get it off his mind. Remembering

21:43

a stressful situation that stresses

21:45

you again? That can

21:47

do it. Right. So

21:50

it looks like the mystery's over. There

21:52

is no mystery. Dr

21:54

Deutschenneuf nailed it. King

21:57

Boris simply died of a cardiac

21:59

arrest. It would be

22:01

an easy conclusion to draw.

22:03

A middle-aged man

22:06

who dies suddenly, look, he's

22:08

had a heart attack. End of story.

22:13

But it's

22:15

context. We're

22:17

talking about powerful people in

22:19

a very difficult point in history. When

22:23

you're talking about geopolitics, which

22:25

is essentially what we are here, there

22:28

is a why. It leaves

22:30

the whole situation unresolved to

22:32

me. So, it's

22:34

a case of don't let

22:36

sleeping kings lie, really?

22:39

No. Let's

22:42

just go over the brief of

22:44

a forensic pathologist. It's not

22:46

just to examine dead bodies to find

22:48

out what caused them to fail mechanically.

22:51

It's also about putting those dead

22:53

bodies into context, into

22:55

historical context, and

22:57

asking, was there anyone else around who wanted

23:00

that body to fail? Who

23:02

maybe caused it to fail? One

23:04

should look at the evidence. And

23:07

the evidence in this case, as I

23:09

see it, is that we

23:11

have got somebody who would be a candidate

23:14

for being bumped off with good reason. So,

23:16

there is a mystery there. I

23:18

agree. I honestly don't think we can

23:21

separate this case from the background of

23:23

war. There was just too much of

23:25

an agenda. I

23:27

would never stand up in a court

23:30

and say, beyond all reasonable doubt, this

23:32

is a homicide. But

23:34

there is too much to it for

23:36

me to comfortably say, write it off,

23:38

never need to look at that again.

23:40

Job's done. In my profession,

23:43

we don't like loose ends of hanging there

23:45

going, yeah, haven't got to the bottom of

23:47

me yet. And

23:49

Dr Hamilton's not the only one who thinks

23:51

there's more to this than meets the eye.

23:54

King Boris' daughter, Maria Louisa,

23:56

is convinced her father was

23:59

murdered. Despite being aware

24:01

of Dr Deutschena's findings that it was

24:03

just a heart attack. You can

24:05

induce a heart attack. That's

24:08

not an answer. There

24:11

are many ways of bringing somebody to a heart

24:14

attack. So you

24:16

still questioned it after that? It wasn't the

24:19

end of the story at that point? No.

24:33

What better way of taking stock of

24:35

things than over tea and biscuits in

24:37

our hotel room? I

24:40

want to mull over what I'm now

24:42

feeling about Boris's death. At

24:44

least that was the plan until EJ

24:46

floors me with a

24:48

confession about our visit to Vrana Palace.

24:51

Can I ask you a question about the royal

24:54

toilet? Oh yeah? So

24:56

we both went to the royal toilet? Yeah.

24:59

Did you use the comb? No.

25:01

What? Did you comb your hair with his comb? Yes.

25:04

What was it made out of? Gold. A

25:06

lipstick. Oh, a lipstick. What colour

25:08

was it? Grey. You'd

25:11

literally picked up his comb from the bay and

25:13

brushed your hair with it. I didn't

25:15

really think that it was his so I just did.

25:18

It was there with some powder puffs. I thought it was

25:20

in it. Did you use the powder puffs as well? I

25:22

didn't use the powder puffs. No. I

25:24

just can't believe he used his comb. I

25:27

actually can't believe that. Talk about

25:29

making yourself at home in a royal

25:31

palace. I went and I just

25:33

went in and out for me because it

25:35

was a bit of a rush. I hope you wash your hands. Of

25:39

course I did. Of

25:41

course I did. With Covid and everything.

25:45

Couldn't have bothered otherwise. Actually,

25:53

since we're getting all confessional

25:55

here, I'm going to let you

25:57

in on another little secret. That's

26:00

really Javel's little secret. You'll

26:02

remember that Maria Luisa is

26:05

celebrating her 90th birthday, while

26:07

Javel has been working on a little surprise

26:09

for her, and I'm sure she's

26:12

going to love it. I hate surprises

26:14

because you don't know what's going to

26:16

happen. Oh, well, let's not mention that

26:18

to Javel. The

26:22

surprise is a cake with penguins

26:24

with a t-shirt of Bulgarian football

26:26

team left because

26:29

the princess is very much like

26:31

penguins and this football team left,

26:33

which is from the period of

26:35

King Boris time. She'll be

26:37

so excited, won't she? I hope so. I hope

26:40

so. If

26:42

I were a princess, I honestly

26:45

couldn't imagine a nicer aide than

26:47

Javel. But how do

26:49

royal families trust their staff? I

26:52

mean, how do they know that Javel

26:54

hasn't slipped a little poison in that

26:56

penguin cake? Simeon's

26:58

rather horrified when I ask him.

27:01

Can you trust him? Who? Javel? Javel?

27:05

My secretary. Yes, you can trust me

27:07

now. I

27:09

hope you see I can't possibly even visualize

27:13

anything like it because if you don't trust

27:15

somebody you see every day, finally

27:17

you become insane. I'm

27:20

only teasing, of course. Javel's a

27:22

total star, but I asked

27:25

the royal siblings about him because I wanted to make

27:27

a serious point. When

27:29

King Boris was here in Vrana Palace, in

27:32

the gritty heart of the Second World War, trust

27:36

was not something one could take for granted.

27:39

And even at the tender age of six, Simeon

27:42

was made well aware that

27:44

wolves have ears. What

27:47

I remember is that my

27:49

mother would tell us that, well,

27:52

we just should know how to keep our

27:54

mouth shut. But that was as

27:56

far as we would go into anything

27:58

sort of... weird or

28:00

secret or what have you. I

28:03

think it was more

28:05

for...is anybody eavesdropping

28:07

or...I don't know. But

28:10

interesting that the royal children were

28:12

taught to be careful about what

28:14

they said in earshot of palace

28:17

staff. Did the Queen

28:19

suspect someone was listening out for

28:21

information? Information

28:23

she feared they might use to kill the

28:25

king. It wasn't any

28:28

spy phobia or agent

28:30

phobia. It's much later

28:32

that you realise that somebody might betray

28:34

you or not. Things

28:37

happen, like in any war, like

28:40

in any royal court or something. So

28:43

it wasn't really specifically sinister

28:45

or something. Now

28:49

let's be clear about something. I'm

28:51

not in any way ignoring

28:54

Dr Deutschness's scientific conclusions or

28:57

overriding them. I absolutely

28:59

acknowledge that as the pathologist who

29:01

actually performed an autopsy on the

29:03

King's heart in 1991, Dr Deutschness's

29:06

testimony is unique. But

29:11

I do still have to push forward

29:13

with other lines of investigation. Especially

29:16

as Dr Stuart Hamilton, our

29:18

own forensic pathologist, has

29:20

cast doubt on whether everything adds

29:22

up quite so neatly. Whether

29:25

we really can just accept that

29:27

the King's death was unfortunate, but

29:30

completely natural. King

29:34

Boris was pretty cautious about his

29:36

health. He wasn't a

29:38

hypochondriac like his father Foxy Ferdinand,

29:41

but he did go in for cures and remedies.

29:44

According to Stefan Grueth in his book

29:46

Crown of Thorns, King

29:49

Boris went everywhere with a substantial

29:51

amount of pills and potions. He

29:54

owned a sort of travelling pharmacy. Certainly

29:57

there are substances which...

30:00

can mimic a heart

30:02

attack. The one that immediately

30:04

leaps to mind in normal

30:07

everyday life to some

30:09

extent would be cocaine. Cocaine

30:11

can cause the arteries to your

30:13

heart to spasm, to close down.

30:16

Are you saying King Boris may have been on cocaine? I'm

30:19

not suggesting he was on cocaine, but

30:22

I'm thinking of things that

30:24

can cause a similar outcome.

30:26

Anything that causes your arteries

30:28

to spasm will stop the

30:31

blood flowing through them and

30:33

that means the heart muscle can be damaged. And

30:36

it wouldn't have been difficult for someone, someone

30:39

who had close access to Boris,

30:42

to substitute his vitamin kills

30:44

and headache remedies for something

30:46

more sinister. But

30:48

who? A close aide? The

30:51

Yavur of times past? The

30:54

only problem is, it seems that

30:56

Boris used his portable medicine cabinet

30:58

as a kind of comfort blanket.

31:01

He liked to know it was nearby

31:04

but he rarely actually used its contents.

31:07

A close aide would have known

31:09

that. They'd have known there were

31:11

no guarantees that Boris would have

31:13

swallowed any poisonous pills. And

31:17

here's the old sticking point of course.

31:20

Dr Deutschnerf was adamant that he found

31:22

no traces of poison in the King's heart when

31:24

he re-examined it in the 1990s. He only found

31:29

the proof that Boris had had a cardiac

31:31

arrest. But Dr

31:34

Stuart Hamilton still thinks it's

31:36

perfectly possible that Deutschnerf may

31:38

have missed something. Not

31:41

because he thinks Deutschnerf wasn't doing his

31:43

job properly, but because he

31:45

simply didn't test for the right

31:47

poison. Dr Hamilton's made

31:49

the same mistake himself. One

32:00

of the most interesting ones. Unsurprisingly, testing for

32:02

plant seed poisoning is not

32:04

standard procedure in the crime

32:06

scene handbook. But

32:08

luckily, one of the crime

32:10

scene investigators was a horticultural

32:13

fanatic and he alerted

32:15

Dr Hamilton to the fact

32:17

that the body was found among yew

32:19

trees, whose seeds he knew

32:22

are deathly. If

32:24

one of the crime scene investigators hadn't

32:26

been a keen gardener, I'm not

32:28

sure I would have picked that up. So for

32:30

all the certainty and expertise, there is

32:33

an element of luck. There

32:35

is an element of luck. I

32:37

would have missed because we don't

32:39

routinely test for the

32:42

poison that is in seeds from

32:44

a yew tree. That story reminds

32:46

me of something. Something

32:48

Colonel Hamish, our chemical weapons expert,

32:50

once said, when we were

32:52

wondering if the Nazis poisoned Boris. That

32:56

the lack of scientific know-how at

32:58

the time was definitely advantageous to

33:00

a wannabe assassin. At

33:02

that time they hadn't developed the sort

33:04

of detectors that we have now that

33:06

would signal that to the sus. So

33:08

technology was there, or lack of it

33:10

was their friend in those days. Absolutely.

33:14

And we know that the Soviets

33:16

had established two poison laboratories with

33:18

the sole aim of poisoning people

33:20

and getting away with it. Remember,

33:23

they were using a poison that

33:25

could fool pathologists into thinking the

33:27

victims had died of a heart

33:29

attack, one that couldn't be

33:31

detected back then. But that

33:33

was 1943. The

33:36

last examination of the heart was in 1991. But

33:40

doesn't it stand to reason that

33:43

in the last 30 years technology

33:45

and toxicology has moved on leaps

33:47

and bounds again? When

33:49

I was dealing with Al-Qaeda biological weapons

33:51

attack in Iraq 15 years ago, it

33:54

was taking us 36 hours to

33:56

do DNA sequencing. It's moved

33:58

so far forward now. Wow. What, You could

34:01

dell thirty six hours Fifteen years ago, you

34:03

could do it. Fifteen minutes

34:05

now and not a knee has

34:07

the speed increase bed or say

34:09

the bright said what you can

34:11

day. As I suspected,

34:18

That as you know the king's

34:21

body has gone missing the Soviets

34:23

does it up from real a

34:25

monastery where it was laid to

34:27

rest in Nineteen Forty three. Horace

34:29

was rebury that France then at

34:32

some point during Simeon and Maria

34:34

Luisa as exile the Communists exceeded

34:36

the body again and to space

34:38

of it goodness knows where. So.

34:43

When the hot hand up in a

34:45

pickle jar in Nineteen Ninety One it

34:47

was read buried again at the

34:50

real A monastery. Could.

34:52

The heart still hold clues, Clues.

34:55

That today's forensic medicine might

34:57

be able to detect that

34:59

the forensic pathologists as a

35:01

ninety nineties simply couldn't. Pickling

35:04

is a good way to preserve tissue. Don't

35:06

Just do it. Hamilton a forensic

35:09

pathologist. The com get perfect

35:11

toxicology from it because obviously the

35:13

to see will be affected by

35:16

the the thing it's preserved in

35:18

both. As I say to people

35:20

many times when it comes to

35:22

investigations, if you don't look. You.

35:25

Won't find. If you look,

35:27

you may or may not and you don't vote to

35:29

leave Done. Gosh,

35:32

That's a tough qu said. The

35:34

remains of King Boris really big,

35:36

seemed for a full time, on

35:38

the off chance that some new

35:40

trace of poison could be sounds.

35:43

Simmons. Has already told me

35:46

he still worries about his

35:48

father's body, that it's not

35:50

resting peacefully. At for honor

35:52

I'm not supposed to busan do

35:54

the movement moves or things I.

35:58

I. simply cigarettes and moment bring

36:00

it up, I think of it again.

36:03

It's disturbing. It

36:05

does seem almost sacrilegious to

36:07

disturb the remains of the King

36:09

again, the remains

36:12

of Simeon and Maria

36:14

Louisa's beloved Papa. You

36:16

know, one has to make one's

36:18

peace with these things. That

36:20

won't bring him back. And

36:22

that's Dr Hamilton's feeling too. There's

36:25

no point in a further autopsy.

36:28

Bringing up the heart would not give us

36:30

a definitive answer. Because, of

36:32

course, you just can't prove a

36:34

negative. Even if we

36:36

were to do tests, even if

36:39

it came back and said no

36:41

substance is present, then

36:43

the counter argument would be A, it could

36:45

be something you can't pick up. B,

36:48

if it was something he was given

36:50

several days before that set this in

36:52

motion, it could have got

36:54

out of his system by the time he died.

36:56

So you'll never prove one

36:59

way or the other. So

37:01

I need to find new evidence

37:03

elsewhere, because my gut

37:06

feeling is still that King Boris

37:08

was murdered, poisoned.

37:11

And although I agree that many of

37:13

his symptoms, the chest pain, the sweating,

37:15

etc, do match the signs of a

37:17

heart attack, there are

37:19

still two unexplained signs.

37:24

Those brown spots that covered his skin

37:27

and the fact that his red blood cells,

37:30

as Simeon put it, exploded.

37:33

It was those brown spots on

37:35

the King's skin, remember, that first

37:37

alerted the German doctors to a

37:39

possible poisoning. They just couldn't

37:41

explain them away. Can

37:43

Dr Hamilton? A rash

37:46

or spots and breakdown

37:48

of red blood cells does

37:50

not sound like a typical consequence of

37:52

a cardiac event. That would

37:54

set you off investigating, wouldn't it? That

37:57

would set my Consequences.

38:00

levels tangling, I

38:03

think the maybe some thing and

38:05

hand gun on. The really

38:07

do. And remember a snake

38:09

expert marks a say he rubbish

38:12

my theory that snake venom killed

38:14

the king that he's been back

38:16

in touch. About those spots, don't choose

38:18

to sound like a hyper sensitive reaction

38:20

to me to some. They.

38:23

Do may be a poison

38:25

and Marks been doing a

38:27

better synching maybe seven Hide

38:29

says did reaction. If you

38:31

eaten something toxic like pose

38:33

as motions maybe mushrooms and

38:35

there are plenty of highly

38:38

toxic mushrooms that oh toadstools

38:40

the could have been was

38:42

into his food. As

38:44

it happens, kings or is

38:46

had one savor it. This

38:48

and this that he asked

38:50

for again and again. Have

38:55

you just it? Next

38:58

time on the disliking. A

39:01

chat with a Russian my college's

39:04

leaves us with a bad taste

39:06

in our mouths. Some poisonous and

39:08

did they are known to have

39:10

some bitter taste. Said that this

39:12

one said there really isn't as

39:15

they had distance and a salary.

39:17

Tell endings a Princess Maria Luisa

39:19

and King Simeon when less finally

39:21

allowed home from exile. It

39:23

was an unbelievable dream. That team

39:25

same goes for almost sixty years.

39:28

You know the ideal Bulgaria was

39:30

like for you know from the

39:32

from the jews jerusalem or something

39:34

like that. the dream that would

39:36

never come soon. Supply

39:57

is a pretty soon as. House

40:01

and exactly right media hosted

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by me Becky Milligan. It's

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written and produced by Emma Jane Kirby.

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Original music is by Daniel Lloyd

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Cialtino Nolan. The creative

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Butterfly King is inspired by the

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