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0:30

Buenos dias world from the San Diego

0:32

Zoo Wildlife Alliance. I'm Marco Wint. And

0:34

I'm Rick Schwartz. And

0:36

we're your host for season 3 of Amazing

0:39

Wildlife, a show from I Heart Radio Ruby

0:41

Studio and the global conservation organization behind the

0:43

San Diego Zoo and the San Diego Zoo

0:45

Safari Park. Listen as we dive

0:47

into the efforts here in San Diego

0:49

and spotlight the heroes working worldwide to

0:51

care for the species you know and

0:53

love. Listen to Amazing Wildlife on the

0:55

I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

0:57

wherever you get your podcasts. Hmm?

1:02

Ah! Oh.

1:04

I can't speak up. Baby,

1:09

we're here in a few days. There's

1:11

no time for a picnic. No, but it's time to get

1:13

the house in order. What

1:16

do you think I'm doing? You're

1:20

absolute best. Don't patronize me.

1:23

I'm not. I'm just

1:26

saying. The baby

1:28

is about to be here. We need to talk about what

1:30

we're doing. About what? Things.

1:35

We've been avoiding the most... You know what you want to

1:37

talk to? Herschel. I'm

1:40

doing stuff, Lori. Thanks.

1:43

Isn't that enough? Welcome

2:03

to The Cast

2:05

of Us, a

2:08

podcast dedicated to the show,

2:10

The Walking Dead. Hey,

2:17

Zed heads. Welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason.

2:20

And I'm Lucy. And this is The Cast of Us,

2:22

episode 586. And

2:24

this episode we're covering The Walking Dead season

2:26

3, episode 1, Seed. Exciting.

2:31

It's not supposed to be that happy. Seed. It's

2:34

so fun. Yay. It's

2:36

a laugh. There are

2:38

some light moments in this one. So a

2:40

couple of announcements before we get started. The

2:44

meetup in Glasgow,

2:47

we figured out a place to have the meetup at a

2:50

time, or at least a date. So

2:52

that's going to be with

2:54

me, Lucy, Peter, and Karen

2:56

and David on Wednesday,

2:58

July 17th in Glasgow

3:00

at the DRAM. Yeah,

3:03

DRAM, formerly Ishkaba, but DRAM

3:06

of late. What part of town? It's

3:09

in the West End. It's just off of Charing

3:11

Cross and it's very near subway stations. So it's

3:13

easy to get to if you're coming into the

3:15

city center. Yeah. So now you guys have

3:17

a place and a time to be there.

3:20

So I hope anyone who was thinking about

3:22

coming will plan to do that. I'm going

3:24

to put up an event on our Facebook

3:26

group, Podcastica Facebook group, where people can get

3:29

more details and you can RSVP if you

3:31

want. So look for that very soon.

3:33

Hopefully by the time you're hearing this, it'll be up. Yay.

3:37

I'm excited. Yeah. And there's been

3:39

a few people who have said they're coming. Even if

3:41

no one comes, it'll just be me and you and

3:43

Peter and Karen and David. That'll be fun. Yeah.

3:46

I'll drag a couple of... I still know

3:48

at least two people in Glasgow that I'm

3:50

not related to. So yeah, I'll bring a

3:52

crowd. You can bring your relatives too. Yeah,

3:54

sure. No. My

3:57

mom's the only one that's shown up. No. And

4:00

then I wanted to also mention that

4:03

Lucy and Peter have, well, I think by

4:05

the time you've, you're hearing me, they will

4:07

have recorded the first episode of their new

4:10

bear podcast. Let it rip. Let

4:12

it rip. Let it rip. Let it

4:14

rip. When are you letting it rip? Like when's it going to be? Hopefully

4:17

early next week. Yeah. Hopefully

4:19

next week. Hopefully Monday. We'll see how

4:21

we do with the editing. It turns

4:23

out like producing a podcast with your

4:26

other half is quite difficult. It's not

4:28

actually that difficult. Um, I think we decided

4:30

to set ourselves the challenge of recording some

4:32

cooking, first of all. Um, so

4:35

we'll see how that goes. We managed to condense

4:37

it into a five minute bit. So fingers crossed.

4:39

So that look okay. Yeah. Yeah. We made

4:41

some good pastas. So you're going to keep doing

4:43

that potentially. Oh, I think so. It depends. I

4:45

don't know if we'll do it every week, but as much as we

4:48

can, I think it would be fun to, I'm

4:50

going up to my son is

4:52

visiting his aunt's or

4:54

my, and actually in Fort Bragg, which

4:56

is Northern California, a couple hours north

4:58

of me. And so I'm going up

5:00

there to pick them up tomorrow. And

5:03

there's this great place called Roy's Chicago

5:05

dogs that has Italian beef sandwiches. And

5:07

it's the best I've had in the Bay

5:09

area. So I'm totally going to go up

5:11

early and get one of those. Oh

5:14

dude, we've currently got like a big bit

5:16

of beef sitting in our freezer that we

5:18

need to do something. We

5:20

picked up lots of candy and we're like, yeah,

5:22

so that might be my Sunday. We might be

5:25

making beef sandwiches on Sunday. If you're going

5:27

to be doing cooking in the bear, you got to

5:29

make that sandwich at some point. We

5:31

do. We started really easy with the spaghetti and

5:33

now I'm letting do something more complicated. So

5:35

we'll see. That's fun. So

5:38

anyway, go to podcastica.com if you're interested

5:40

in hearing Lucy and Peter's podcasts. I

5:42

can't wait to listen to myself. And

5:45

with that, let's get into the Walking

5:47

Dead season three, episode one seed. What

5:50

did you think of it watching it now after all this

5:52

time? Oh, this is like the

5:54

show. It's best. No, like there was an article, I

5:56

think on the AV club recently about like, what

5:59

is your favorite season? of your favorite show and

6:01

why is it season three? And I think there's,

6:03

there's a lot of science behind like season three

6:05

is usually the sweet spot for a show. If

6:07

it makes it, if a show makes it that far, then

6:09

it's probably hitting a strike. Exactly. So

6:11

yeah, it's, it's great. It's fantastic. It's

6:14

a great season opener. It's everything you

6:16

want it to be. Um, I'm

6:18

almost worried. I don't have enough to say about it because I'm just like,

6:21

yeah, it's great. It's really good. Yeah. It was cool. It

6:23

was cool. It was fine. All those bits.

6:26

Really great. Yeah. I

6:28

loved it more than I thought. I remembered

6:31

this episode being good, but mostly I just

6:33

remembered the opening scene, which was amazing, but

6:35

it was more emotional of an episode than

6:37

I remember, uh, because

6:40

of how the episode was made, but

6:42

also I just felt nostalgic watching it

6:44

more than I have with any of

6:46

the ones we've watched before. I feel

6:49

like I remember watching this as

6:52

it came out. I feel like season one, I

6:54

binged for sure. Like on, like one weekend and

6:56

then season two, I think I was vaguely, maybe

6:59

it had just started and I kind of caught up halfway

7:01

through, but this I remember I think my friend Jillian came

7:03

over and we like watched it together on a projector that

7:05

we had set up in a world flat 12 years ago.

7:09

And yeah, it did make me very

7:12

nostalgic as well for like event TV.

7:14

Who knew? I mean, I think, I

7:18

really think this episode feels

7:21

like more like the

7:23

walking dead as we think of it. Then

7:26

seasons one and two did. It's so

7:28

weird to say because everyone looks back

7:30

so fondly on season one issue, but

7:32

there's things that happen in this episode

7:34

with the characterizations and the tone. And

7:36

the show is settling into what the

7:38

walking dead became in a lot of

7:40

different little ways. So it feels more

7:42

like the show to me. Almost like,

7:44

yeah, I think one of your like

7:46

a prologue. Yeah. This is, this

7:48

is like, we're big, we're into it now. This

7:50

is the heart that it was in this episode.

7:52

I feel like had been wasn't really there in

7:55

the walking dead before this. It was more bleak.

7:57

And now this episode had a lot of heart.

8:00

So yeah, I loved it. I

8:02

thought I usually have timeline, but I

8:04

thought it would be interesting to do timeline before

8:06

we talk about the episode because we're coming from

8:09

a season break. So this episode

8:11

is set on day 294 of the apocalypse. So about 210,

8:13

no, 230 or so days since Rick

8:16

woke up. So see,

8:22

so for context, season two ended on day 83. So 211

8:24

days have passed, which is about 30

8:29

weeks. So Laurie's about

8:31

34, 35 weeks pregnant here. I

8:34

know, according to the wiki, this is

8:37

June roughly. We're now getting

8:39

into the point in the timeline where other

8:41

things in the Walking Dead universe are happening

8:43

and being slotted in. So

8:45

if we take the wiki timeline to be

8:47

canon, one month

8:50

earlier, Negan's Here's Negan arc concluded.

8:52

So the saviors are somewhere being

8:54

started up at this very point.

8:56

They're about a month old on

8:59

day 224. So

9:02

two and a half months before the

9:04

Commonwealth was established. So Yuma Co's

9:06

brother told me has lied about his

9:08

job and been assigned to be a

9:10

cake baker. And Maxine slash Stephanie has

9:12

gotten her role as Pamela Milton's assistant.

9:15

Interestingly, the Commonwealth was established on my

9:17

birthday. I didn't know that. I still

9:19

hate pro Commonwealth day. And also in

9:22

this period Woodbury's established and Dwayne has

9:24

been bitten and Morgan has started to

9:26

lose, uh, lose it a little bit.

9:28

So a lot in the wider universe

9:31

as well. Coming into that. That's

9:34

interesting. I can't believe that much time has

9:36

passed that. That is a weakness of this

9:38

episode in my opinion that they

9:40

were going around in circles this whole time. Yeah.

9:43

If we're to believe the timeline they've

9:45

been going around in circles for seven

9:47

months. Yeah. That's, I would say the

9:50

episode does, it pays

9:52

its dues in trying to make us understand and

9:54

believe why, but I'm still a bit like, it

9:57

feels more of the walking dead to me. that

10:00

they've not noticed the prison, which feels even stupider

10:02

when you look at the end of season two

10:04

and it's like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

10:07

But, uh, you said, you know, you pointed out

10:09

that didn't look like anything like the prison ended

10:11

up looking like. And so my head can is,

10:13

that's an all different prison. I think

10:17

they hadn't later in the season that

10:19

the prison was so overrun, it couldn't,

10:22

nothing could be done with it. And I wonder if

10:24

it's as the group gets better, they're more able to

10:26

come back and do it. But they don't read it

10:28

like that. They read it as Rick being like, Oh

10:30

my God, it just doesn't look like a different place

10:33

too. But I mean, the thing

10:35

about the herds where they're looking at the

10:37

maps and, uh, they're blocked

10:39

off. It felt like fear the walking dead

10:41

did a lot where there's the, some abstract

10:43

thing that's off screen, that's preventing you from

10:46

getting somewhere and it's a little dubious. You

10:48

know, they did that so much in fear

10:50

and, um, and then to

10:52

know that it was for that long. And then

10:54

for the rest of the series, that never really

10:56

happened quite like that. I mean, there were herds

10:59

sometimes getting the way, but not to the point

11:01

where they were trapped in this one location, you

11:03

know? So I feel like the, the writers realized,

11:05

uh, maybe that wasn't such a great idea. And

11:09

the timing is, I dunno,

11:11

I guess I'll talk about the cold open. Cause I

11:13

feel like that's the thing everyone remembers about this episode.

11:15

Cause it's brilliant. It's a really good bit of screenwriting

11:18

in that nothing is said. Um, but

11:21

there is this moment where they sort of, I

11:23

think, I think Laurie's bump is the time reveal

11:25

is, you know, this is how much time has

11:27

passed, but there are some other clues, like Herschel

11:30

looks more haggard. I feel like Rick

11:32

should have had more of a beard at this point. He

11:34

still looks a bit too well groomed, but maybe they'd find

11:37

a razor. Um, and I suppose

11:39

the confuser that the, uh, producers

11:42

will have had to deal with his chance. The

11:44

Riggs is clearly two or

11:46

three years older than he was in season

11:48

two. Like he's shot up a little bit.

11:50

So I think they're relying on Laurie's pregnancy

11:53

to kind of reveal the time that has

11:55

passed, but it is a little

11:57

like really that long, really seven months. And

12:00

especially what I hate, so

12:02

not only that, maybe

12:05

I'll get all the negativity out at the beginning here, but

12:08

that it's ridiculous that they've been

12:10

going around in circles for seven

12:13

months, but also that Rick and

12:15

Lori's relationship seems to

12:17

be like maybe a

12:19

week or two after we saw them last as

12:22

far as where they would have been emotionally, not

12:25

seven months. Like if they're still

12:27

that bad seven months later, then

12:31

she's like, you know, we really should talk. I'm like,

12:33

you didn't talk for seven months, come on.

12:37

I can kind of believe it to be

12:39

honest. Like I genuinely, like Rick is, he's

12:42

bad in this episode in terms of their

12:44

relationship. Like he's, I felt

12:46

very sorry for Lori in this episode. Like I found

12:48

that really hard to watch, but I could, something

12:51

so fundamental breaks between the two of them in

12:53

the season two finale. And I do sort of

12:56

wonder, you're suddenly in this really

12:58

claustrophobic group of people where you're literally just

13:00

every day trying to find somewhere to survive.

13:02

There's not really time to talk or to

13:04

kind of address that in a healthy way

13:06

because there's no safe space or

13:08

safe basis to that. Sleep every night, you know,

13:10

I mean, I don't know. There's gotta be time

13:12

to go to the bathroom. There's time to eat.

13:15

There's gotta be time to have a five minute chat. Well,

13:18

I don't know. I kind of buy it.

13:20

I do buy it. I can buy it,

13:22

Rick being the kind of person who just

13:24

shuts off entirely. Like I think there's something

13:26

in Rick that's very broken at this point.

13:29

Absolutely. And I buy that too. And I

13:31

don't approve of what the way Rick is

13:33

handling this at all, but it just doesn't

13:35

feel like this

13:38

is a seven month old argument to

13:40

me. It feels like this is a

13:42

fresh argument and they're both

13:44

really still sore

13:46

over it. And they haven't

13:49

processed it to where, you

13:51

know, Laurie, I think Laurie by this time would

13:53

have already said, you know, we need to talk

13:55

about this thing. So this wouldn't be

13:58

the first time that she would be saying. really

14:00

should talk, you know, but then you she wouldn't

14:02

say it that way if it wasn't the first

14:04

time it sounded like as I said

14:06

last Thursday and Friday before that and the

14:08

month before that we really should talk. Yeah,

14:12

something like that. Like we need to I

14:14

don't know. It just felt the timing felt

14:16

weird to me. But anyway, we'll get into

14:18

the whole relationship. I'll tell you who's aged

14:20

wonderfully is the Hyundai. The Hyundai is looking

14:22

great. It's like survived the winter no bother.

14:24

Yeah, you're right. It's still

14:26

still there. Still the star. I wonder if they're

14:29

still getting paid. We'll see if

14:31

it's even clean. But that car

14:33

is cleaner than my car. Because what

14:35

happened to the Hyundai? I don't even know.

14:37

But once you see it

14:39

like rolling over or crashing or something,

14:41

you'll know that they're not a sponsor.

14:43

I wonder if there's some agreement that

14:46

even after they stop being a sponsor, you weren't allowed to trash

14:48

it. I think it makes it to the

14:50

end of the season. I'm going to keep a watch, but I

14:52

think it makes it. It did make me

14:54

laugh that the group look like sex a shit, but this

14:56

car comes up and it's like, oh, it's actually quite clean.

14:59

I'm like, yeah,

15:01

but the cold open aside from from those

15:03

things is is really cool. We open on

15:06

this very extreme close

15:08

up of a Z's eye.

15:10

It's a very well said,

15:12

very character Z there. We

15:15

see the group burst in with this amazing silent

15:17

opening where you see just how much of a

15:19

group they've become. Carl has a

15:21

silencer and can shoot really well now. I

15:24

forgot there's just this amazing scene with

15:27

Daryl in the owl, which I just

15:29

really like the owl looks so cool.

15:31

Ours are so weird if like they're

15:33

mostly leg, but you don't see the

15:35

legs because of how their feathers are.

15:37

It's like creepy ass. There's some thing where

15:39

you, somebody pulled up the feathers

15:41

and it was just these big long

15:44

legs. It's so creepy, but

15:46

it's great. And they have I will for dinner.

15:48

So RIP that owl and everyone's

15:50

looking rough. And then there's this, this whole

15:52

thing with Carl and the dog food. So

15:54

like, what does Carl's dog food mean in

15:56

this? It means that they're very hungry. They're

15:58

quite desperate for sustenance. but they're not

16:01

desperate enough yet. Or Rick has,

16:03

it's clear that Rick has a point of pride about

16:05

his son not eating dog food, which is understandable. And

16:08

we see that Glenn and Maggie are sharing little bits

16:10

of food and I think Laurie is eating like some

16:12

peanut butter or something. So it's not

16:14

the worst we see the group get. Like there's points

16:16

further down the road. I think it's ridiculous. I

16:19

think it's so stupid. He throws the dog food away.

16:21

Yeah, like they're, they're hungry. Who cares? They

16:24

don't even need to be starving. Fucking

16:26

eat it. It's the zombie apocalypse. I don't know.

16:28

I mean, I understand what they were going for

16:30

there, right? That Rick's like, no, we're not that

16:32

bad yet. I don't want to stoop to that.

16:34

Whatever. It's fucking meat and just eat it. Like

16:36

who cares that there's a dog on the label.

16:39

I read up on it a little bit and you

16:42

know, it's not nutritionally made for

16:44

best for humans. It's nutritionally made

16:46

for dogs, but Cheetos are even

16:48

worse, you know, like, no nutritional

16:50

value and it's better than nothing

16:52

for sure. And there is sometimes

16:54

some synthetic form of vitamin K.

16:57

I read that is okay

16:59

for dogs, but not for people in high

17:01

doses. But in an emergency, one can not

17:03

going to hurt you. I think old-fashioned cat

17:05

food used to have ash in it because

17:07

the cats need like, because they would usually

17:09

eat bones. Like they can, they need that

17:11

kind of like, I don't know.

17:13

Yeah, that's a different story. But now like

17:15

the fancy ass food my cats get sometimes

17:17

I look at and I'm like, I'm pretty

17:20

sure this is better than what I am

17:22

currently eating. Like it's like legit proper anyway.

17:24

So yeah, but this was clearly not like

17:26

gourmet tiny captains. But yeah, Rick's I'd be

17:28

pissed if I was Carl. I'll be like

17:30

dad. Listeners

17:34

at home, Bodie's just watching the background just tune

17:36

on. He

17:39

just gets right down with the cats. I

17:42

liked the way that Rick throwing the

17:45

can everyone kind of flinches and it's

17:47

clear that his his mood is still

17:49

kind of the group is kind

17:51

of in his thrall in terms of his anger and

17:54

his tension and then teedog spots the

17:56

Zeds coming and they hot food it

17:58

out. the bat into the kind of

18:00

little caravan that they've made up with

18:03

the Hyundai, the estate car and Daryl's

18:05

motorcycle. I just checked, by

18:07

the way, here, I'll have my

18:10

iPad speak the

18:13

pronunciation because we're all saying this

18:15

car name differently. Okay. But

18:18

here. Hyundai. Hyundai. Yeah.

18:21

That's what I thought. Yeah. Hyundai.

18:24

Okay. Well, clearly our

18:27

sponsorship deal with Hyundai has gone out the window. So

18:29

sorry about that. I

18:31

was looking forward to getting a new car. And

18:34

as before they speed away, Maggie grabs a very useful

18:36

X, which I thought was going to be the thing

18:38

that they did the amputation with, but they don't. They

18:40

do it with the hatchet. But

18:43

I wondered if it was a nod to what's about

18:45

to happen with her dad's leg. But

18:48

I think the major. You thought

18:50

what was going to be. Maggie stops to grab an

18:52

X from a woodside for the help of the car.

18:54

And I was like, Oh, and then I was like,

18:57

Oh wait, no, it's a hatchet later in the episode.

19:00

But yeah, we see the group have come on.

19:02

Maggie's very much part of the kind of fighting

19:04

force. Very much. Carl's

19:07

shooting Laurie, Carol and

19:09

Herschel. We find out later in the episode

19:11

of stepped up as well. But

19:13

they're kind of in the background of this one. And yeah,

19:15

it's just a, it's a masterful way

19:17

of showing how powerful silence can be and

19:20

what you can show in group dynamics without

19:22

relying too heavily on dialogue. Yeah.

19:25

Yeah. And I think it

19:27

felt like, I don't know. I thought about Glenn Mazar

19:30

a lot watching this episode. I think he

19:32

just really wanted to come out with a

19:34

bang with his first, you

19:37

know, this is the first full season of show runner.

19:40

Yeah. He nailed it. So

19:43

my first one is similar

19:45

vein. It's just called badassery. Nice.

19:50

We remember this episode with that scene,

19:52

but there's a bad assery throughout, but

19:56

I'll go through my notes on that

19:58

scene first. So I think one

20:00

of the points is, yeah, that some time has passed where

20:02

they haven't had food or shelter after the farm. So

20:05

they've been forced to deal with the

20:07

zombies and they become more effective fighters.

20:11

And it's, in a way, old hat to

20:13

us after 11 seasons. But

20:17

I don't know. This scene is

20:19

right up there with any badass scene in

20:21

all of Walking Dead still, because

20:23

they're working together so effectively and just because

20:25

of the artistry of how they presented it

20:27

and the silence and everything. But still, they

20:29

know now how to do all this stuff.

20:31

And it was just really

20:34

thrilling, though, when it aired because we hadn't seen anything

20:36

that came later. So it's like, oh,

20:38

wow, this is so cool. They figured it out.

20:40

They're leveling up. Yeah. And

20:43

they're operating particularly quickly, quietly,

20:45

lethally, and effectively as a

20:47

team. And then, and

20:50

Carl, interesting, as you said, to see him as part

20:52

of it. So

20:55

I feel like it's Glenn Mazara saying the

20:57

show is badass now in a way that

20:59

it hasn't really been the focus of the

21:01

show before. Before it felt a

21:03

little more like a soap opera with

21:06

some horror mixed in. But now it's like, look

21:09

at what these awesome characters can

21:11

do. And

21:15

I think it helped change the feel of the show,

21:17

where viewers became hungry

21:19

for more badassery like this

21:22

afterwards. Yeah,

21:24

I would agree with that. Yeah. And so

21:26

just, yeah, I mean, you covered the scene

21:28

well, so I'll move on. But the new

21:30

opening I like better, personally, than the season

21:32

one and two, the credits.

21:34

Yeah, it becomes more of an ensemble

21:37

with the names rather than picking out

21:39

faces and things like that. And

21:42

it's pulling focus away from the kind of

21:44

love triangle element of the first two seasons.

21:46

Yeah. But I just thought, too,

21:49

it's the first two. Maybe

21:51

listeners or you don't agree with this. But

21:53

I just think it's kind of boring. And

21:55

it's all yellowy and

21:57

just feel like it's unattractive.

22:00

not that exciting. There's a couple of

22:02

good images in there, but this is

22:04

creepy and moody, the lighting is interesting,

22:06

it's more active, the zombie eye is

22:08

creepy, you know? And there's

22:10

the arrow which starts to

22:13

show the Walking Dead's growing obsession

22:15

with iconic objects that represent characters.

22:17

It's another way that this episode

22:19

feels more like what Walking Dead

22:22

became, you know? Because they're

22:24

realizing that it's Daryl, you

22:26

know, that Daryl's become this fan

22:28

favorite character. Another

22:32

badass thing is first denying Garirah

22:34

as Michonne. So

22:36

good. I won't talk too much

22:38

about it, but just the way that she slices

22:40

through a zombie and then flicks the blood off of her,

22:43

the tip of her katana after she leaves

22:45

a kill. And the pets with

22:47

the missing arms are pretty badass too, even though

22:50

I think they make no sense. But they're cool.

22:52

It's vibes. Michonne's just vibes, man. Yeah.

22:54

Badass vibes. Yeah, her whole outfit

22:56

and her hair and her demeanor

22:58

and everything. She's great. Then

23:02

when they've already

23:04

taken all the zombies out in the yard

23:06

and they're pushing into the courtyard

23:09

of the prison where they see the Zeds

23:11

and the riot gear, that was just badass

23:13

a lot of hand to hand killing and

23:16

slicing through their heads. And one

23:18

scene that really stands out in this episode is

23:20

the one where Maggie goes in under the chin

23:22

and then she's got her eyes light up. Did

23:24

you see that? It's a meme in

23:26

the wild. There's a gif of that that I've seen

23:29

people use and I saw it. I was like, gif

23:31

in the wild. And

23:34

it's a badass moment. And it, I mean,

23:37

they are often doing

23:39

hand to hand knifing of zombies after this. And

23:41

we saw a little bit before, but I don't

23:43

know if we saw very much where

23:45

they just walk right up to a zombie and knife

23:47

it and here they're thrilled by it, but it just becomes

23:49

a day in the life later down the road. But

23:52

right now it's super badass. And then that one's

23:54

that his whole face skin comes off and

23:57

it looks like the Tar Man from Richard the

23:59

Living dad, which I think might've been on

24:01

purpose and then stabs it and cuts its

24:04

head in. I ate like

24:06

a very juicy nectarine over the sink today and

24:08

I was thinking about it. I was like, oh,

24:10

the skin. Oh

24:15

no, nevermind. I've got one left. Probably not going

24:17

to eat it. Yeah. So

24:20

I think the badassery is great.

24:22

I think it's a bit of a double

24:24

edged sword pun intended. It

24:27

makes the show feel

24:29

cooler and I

24:31

think it's one of the things that really propelled

24:33

The Walking Dead to become this record breaking hit

24:35

that it was. I think without this focus

24:38

on badassery, it would

24:41

not have been as big of a hit. And

24:43

I think Glenn Mazzara, who took

24:45

over Frank Darabont, should probably get a lot of

24:47

credit for this. But also,

24:50

I personally didn't always

24:52

like it when viewers would like

24:54

trash characters who weren't always badass.

24:58

And I want the full range of

25:00

human behavior, people to be messy and

25:03

flawed and scared, too scared to

25:05

do the best thing sometimes. Or

25:08

I don't want a cheesy action

25:10

adventure show. You need it

25:12

to have ground in this humanity heart. But all

25:14

in all, I really do think Walking

25:16

Dead rode that line really well for the most

25:18

part over the years. They had both. I

25:21

think about this a lot in terms of like, I've

25:25

probably spoken about this on the pod before, but

25:28

there are two other things in my life that I

25:30

enjoy. One, only two. I don't like anything else. No,

25:32

a few things that sounded to me. I'm a big

25:34

fan of the Fast and Furious franchise, even though it's

25:36

ridiculous. I know it's crap. Nobody write in and tell

25:38

me it's crap. I know it's crap. I bet you

25:41

most people like it too. Yeah. And

25:43

the other thing is, I don't personally play, but

25:46

Peter is a big D&D person. So there was

25:48

this article came out a couple of years ago

25:50

and one of the, it might be in Vulture

25:52

or something. I should find the link about

25:55

reading the Fast and Furious as one

25:57

long D&D campaign and something that happened.

25:59

in long-running D&D campaigns that I didn't

26:01

know about till last year is

26:04

that you level up. So it's

26:06

an achievement for a party when they reach a point

26:08

where they go to the next level because it means

26:10

they unlock more spells, they are able

26:12

to do more things, they get more power. It

26:17

was a really interesting way of reading Fast

26:19

and Furious because for those of you who

26:21

have not seen it, in film one they're

26:23

stealing DVD players. In film 10 or whatever

26:25

they're in space. It's not a believable trajectory.

26:27

These people gain superpowers. And one

26:29

of the things that comes up in relation to The

26:31

Walking Dead sometimes is that by the time

26:33

you get to season 10 or 11, everyone's almost

26:36

a superhero. They've all had to adapt and level

26:38

up. Mad Fientist And it doesn't make sense to

26:40

an extent that if you survive that long, you

26:42

would be desensitized and you would know how

26:44

to handle them. Jess Yeah, exactly. And I think

26:47

this to me feels like the first big level

26:49

up for a group. And

26:51

I will confess, I was like sitting, mourning

26:53

to myself, going, fucking Laurie's doing nothing. And

26:55

then she did start shooting and shooting quite

26:57

well. And I was like, okay, fair enough.

26:59

And so that's pretty cool, I guess. Mad

27:01

Fientist Yeah, points to Laurie. That

27:04

whole level up concept, when you have

27:06

kids, you see that like every once

27:08

in a while, it's like,

27:11

oh, wow, Bodhi leveled up suddenly,

27:13

he's more sophisticated, or he just

27:15

seems, and it happens in spurts.

27:17

So it does feel like you're watching a video game

27:19

and all of a sudden the person's head glows and

27:21

they're like more capable or whatever. Yeah, I noticed this

27:24

with my niece occasionally, like we'll get a picture and

27:26

I'm like, oh, she's like

27:28

different now. Like, she's the same

27:30

kid, like, and we love her,

27:32

but she looks like she's

27:34

like grown up or she's like not a kid anymore. Yeah,

27:36

it's weird. Cats and dogs don't

27:38

really do that. They just stay. Mad Fientist

27:41

No, they don't level up. Mad Fientist They're just like, Mad Fientist and then we'll

27:43

mellow out. Mad Fientist Yeah, so

27:45

I think this is the group's first big level

27:47

up. Mad Fientist That's true. Mad Fientist Kids come

27:49

out pretty badass almost right from the start. Mad

27:51

Fientist Yeah. They're like, I don't care what

27:53

you think. Okay. Mad Fientist They could jump real high and

27:55

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29:27

All right. Yeah, I think it's your turn, right? Yeah.

29:31

I want to talk a little bit about the Grimes' couple because

29:35

I feel I just it's horrible to

29:37

watch this episode for the two of

29:39

them. Like, it's like Lori

29:41

is so scared. And that scene with her and

29:43

Herschel where she's freaking out about like, what if

29:45

the baby rips me apart? Oh, God. Scared of

29:47

the baby not moving. That's what I would be

29:50

afraid of. Like, my

29:52

favorite zombie movie, Down to the Dead, the

29:54

thing I don't like about it is there's a little zombie

29:56

baby. Oh, yeah. And there,

29:58

oh, it just kills me. I

30:00

think as well there's like there's so much

30:03

shame and stigma around even not in the

30:05

zombie apocalypse mothers talking about fear and about

30:07

birth. Like there's this thing particularly in my

30:10

mom's generation of like you forget all about it when

30:12

you're holding your baby and I'm like yeah that's okay

30:14

but it's also okay to say that it was like

30:16

traumatizing or not okay or like I

30:19

was scared of it because women

30:21

like Laurie says in this episode women did

30:23

die in childbirth a lot before and

30:25

she's right that's exactly what's going to happen. And

30:28

it comes up in a later episode I think

30:30

that Laurie had to have a c-section for Carl

30:32

and I think traditionally if you

30:35

have a c-section for the first baby it's very likely

30:37

you'll have to have another one so that must be

30:39

in the back of her brain so she's terrified she's

30:42

scared she's going to turn she's scared of hurting other

30:44

people and there's this part of

30:46

me that thinks something Sarah Wayne Cowleys puts into

30:48

this performance or maybe I project onto her it's

30:50

like there's part of Laurie

30:52

I feel like feels like she deserves this because she

30:54

feels so shitty about what happened with Shane and Rick

30:56

and the fat machine. Yeah she seems very guilty to

30:59

me. She says you know it would have been better

31:01

if I'd never made it off the farm and Herschel

31:03

is so kind to her and that scene when he

31:05

says the baby doesn't care about any of that you

31:07

know the baby is this thing. Yeah and that's another

31:09

thing where I feel because I've been saying this episode

31:12

feels like character is a character

31:14

settling in or different aspects of the

31:16

show settling into what they became and

31:18

this feels like the Herschel we know

31:20

the kind old wise grandpa caring type

31:22

you know not the uptight

31:24

farmer protecting his territory anymore. Yeah not

31:26

being like a bit of an like

31:29

a sort of preachy douche. Yeah.

31:34

So I just I just really felt for Laurie and

31:36

you see her try she's I'm not

31:38

gonna say scared of Rick because he's not abusive

31:41

in this well he's not an abusive husband we

31:43

don't that is not something I would say about

31:45

Rick. It's not nice. He's behaving in a pretty

31:47

fucking horrible way in this episode and the way

31:49

I've always read it is essentially

31:51

were this not the zombie apocalypse the Grimes would

31:53

be having a divorce. Like I do not see

31:56

this couple staying together. I do not think that

31:58

there is anything left there. for the two of

32:00

them. If it's seven months, that to me does,

32:02

it just feels like a divorce. And

32:04

I think we even joke about it in a later episode

32:06

about like, Oh, what are we going to do? Get a

32:08

divorce? And it's like, well, yeah, probably. So,

32:11

but when you see her try and go up to, cause

32:14

she still has that role of like trying to talk, break

32:16

down and he just shuts

32:18

her down. You know, she talks about it's time to

32:20

get the house in order. Can't we just enjoy this

32:22

for a few days? He's so spiky with her. He

32:24

says he doesn't want to be patronized. He's

32:27

doing stuff. He's doing things. Um, it's

32:29

just so painful to watch. And

32:31

I just, it's such a horribly

32:34

sad bit of Rick's arc

32:36

this time from leaving

32:39

the farm to Lori's death where he completely

32:42

focuses not on

32:45

the wrong things cause he keeps the group going, but

32:48

he never amends that it's rift with Lori. And it's

32:50

just, I find it really sad and really horrible to

32:52

watch. Even though I'm not a huge Lori fan, I

32:54

love Rick and Michonne together. I

32:56

just think it's a really, I

33:00

dunno, it's just a really bleak thing to

33:02

watch. And I think it's a very realistic

33:04

dissolution of her relationship. Like there's two people

33:06

who just don't have anything left. And that's

33:08

what I quote unquote like

33:10

about it is it feels

33:13

like real people. Yeah, it

33:15

really does. And I just think Sarah Wayne-Carly's

33:17

does such a good job of selling that

33:19

vulnerability and that sadness. And I think,

33:22

especially knowing how it ends up here, just like,

33:25

Oh, cause I remember watching this,

33:27

my whole thing, thinking about

33:30

Lori in the early episodes, the season was I

33:32

knew what happened in the comic. And I was

33:34

like, how are they going to do this? Like, is she

33:36

gonna, and in a way I think her dying in

33:38

childbirth was, was the best way because it meant you

33:40

didn't have to do the horrible shooting

33:43

scene that happens in the comics, but it

33:45

was still a bummer and it was still

33:47

heavy as hell. And yeah, I just, I

33:50

just felt for her. I just feel like Rick's a

33:52

real piece of shit to her in this episode and

33:54

it doesn't improve. And it's a bummer. It's

33:56

a bummer. Both can be true. He can be leading

33:59

the group. to better places, but

34:01

he's taking his eye off the ball

34:03

for showing love and care. But I

34:05

think ultimately there isn't much love and

34:07

care there anymore. And that's even sadder.

34:10

Yeah. I mean, maybe he doesn't love her.

34:12

Maybe, um, who was it? It

34:15

was Jenny Orion who said, maybe

34:18

Rick doesn't love Lori, you know, and maybe

34:20

he didn't love Lori or maybe he did,

34:22

but now he doesn't, you know, and that's

34:24

okay. You can fall out of love with

34:26

somebody, but you shouldn't treat him like shit.

34:29

No. And I don't think Lori could have

34:31

done, I mean, Lori can't change what has

34:33

happened and it's

34:35

clear that she, you know what I mean? There's, I

34:37

don't think she's, I don't

34:39

think her regret is in question from what

34:42

she's told Rick or the way she's behaved.

34:44

And yeah, it just, it's a bummer. It's

34:46

a bummer. Probably get a little nail now

34:48

from Lori haters being like, she's a bitch.

34:50

I'll be like, I think most, well I

34:53

listened to Renee's message and she's like, I

34:56

don't usually feel for Lori, but I do

34:58

in this episode. Okay. Cool. Okay. If Renee's

35:01

feeling it, then I feel like we'll

35:03

get to that. But, um, I,

35:06

uh, I'll do my Rick and Lori point too.

35:08

Um, I mean, I

35:10

love that it's the famous stuff

35:12

and things came a

35:14

thing about Rick, you know, and

35:17

it's, um, like

35:19

a lot of famous lines, it's not

35:21

exactly how we remember it.

35:23

Like Darth Vader, we always think of

35:25

him saying, Luke, I am your father,

35:27

but he actually says, no, I am

35:29

your father. Yeah. And in Casablanca, Humphrey

35:32

Bogart never said play it again, Sam.

35:34

He said play it, Sam. So

35:36

I had a feeling and I don't know if

35:38

I'm right. I'm Googling it right now. I think

35:41

he says it again. I think

35:43

he says it again when they're on the, Oh,

35:46

stuff and things. He actually does say that.

35:48

I think he does. Okay. We need to

35:50

keep an eye on this

35:53

because I had the same thing where I was like,

35:55

I don't think so, but maybe, maybe he does. Well,

35:57

I think, I mean, maybe, maybe

35:59

he does. I don't think so, but maybe, but

36:01

I do feel like this is the moment that

36:04

where we, cause it really

36:06

hits, you know, he's like, I'm doing

36:08

stuff Lori, thanks. Isn't that enough? And

36:10

that's like, what a dismissal. Like he's

36:13

like, doesn't even say what he's doing.

36:15

And it's so ridiculous. It's

36:20

just such a fucking, it's not. He

36:22

flipped her off really. Thanks. But he's,

36:25

but here's the thing. So, you

36:28

know, last we saw Rick and Lori, he was

36:30

in freak out mode after having killed Shane. And

36:32

that was, that was fucking rough, right? She

36:34

basically told him to do that. And then

36:36

he did it. And then she fully rejected

36:38

him and shot a lot of hate his

36:41

way. And I could,

36:43

I totally understand just being wrecked

36:45

by that, you know, like, oh

36:47

my God, I killed my friend.

36:49

And it was because

36:52

you came and lady Macbeth me, and

36:54

now you're rejecting me. My

36:56

friend's dead. Like what the fuck, you know? So

36:58

I could see that being the end of a

37:00

marriage right there. And I

37:02

think he shut down. He can't

37:04

deal with his emotions clearly. So

37:06

he's focused on action. His

37:09

top priority is finding a secure place to

37:11

stay. And he indicates that it's

37:13

about neat because she's about to give birth.

37:16

So he's looking

37:18

out for maybe her, maybe just the

37:20

baby. You don't know.

37:22

But then the first thing he notes about why

37:25

they need to push into the prison is that

37:27

it might have an infirmary. So he's very focused

37:29

on, I think the baby and or Lori are

37:31

both are his top priority, but it's all about

37:34

action and not dealing with the emotions of it.

37:36

And when she wants to talk about what they've

37:39

been avoiding talking about, well, we don't know for

37:41

sure exactly what that is, but it seems like

37:43

because they had this moment that we saw at

37:45

the end of the season, and then they just

37:47

haven't been together since then. And that's probably what

37:50

she wants to talk about. And

37:53

Lori said, she comes to

37:55

him and in

37:57

this moment, because he's wanting to push

37:59

further. the prison immediately and she's saying,

38:01

no, I think we should rest. And

38:04

he takes that as a criticism. And

38:07

this trauma that he's having

38:10

is from that criticism that I

38:12

just talked about with, you know,

38:14

killing Shane. So now he's super

38:16

sensitive to any criticism. And

38:18

I just having been in relationships, I can

38:20

totally understand that where you're

38:23

not available to hear constructive criticism

38:25

or something that's not aimed

38:27

at calling you a bad person, but really just

38:30

we need to like we need to address this

38:32

thing. And then I've

38:34

taken stuff like that as you're a bad person. And

38:36

I'm like not as open to it, you know, but

38:40

so then she's saying she wants to talk about

38:42

what's going on and about what

38:44

things we've been avoiding. You

38:47

know what you want to talk talk to Herschel,

38:49

I'm doing stuff Lori things, isn't that enough? I'm

38:51

still here. So I think he's trying to say,

38:54

I am helping, you know, I'm like

38:56

quit criticizing me. I'm doing I'm being

38:58

the man I'm leading. I'm I'm protecting

39:00

us and isn't that

39:03

enough for you, you know? And so

39:06

anyway, I think that they should

39:08

both talk to Herschel because they need marriage counseling.

39:11

But but then

39:13

she's like, yeah, feeling guilty about what quote what she

39:16

put Rick through. I put him and Shane at odds.

39:18

I put the knife in his hand. Did she actually

39:20

give him a knife or is that just a metaphor?

39:22

It's metaphor, I think. Yeah. So even though I'm trying

39:24

to like

39:29

get in Rick's head, understand how somebody could be

39:31

like this, as I said, what I like about

39:33

it is it feels real. I don't approve of

39:35

how he's handled it. He's had all winter to

39:37

calm down and work it out. And

39:39

at this point, either he wants to be

39:42

with Lori or he doesn't. And either way,

39:44

he should talk to her about that and

39:47

be a good human being and tell

39:50

tell her what he's feeling. And if

39:52

he doesn't love her anymore, tell her that, you

39:54

know, just work it out. And he's a big

39:56

fucking baby. And and if he was

39:59

like this at home. before the zombie apocalypse,

40:01

not talking, then it totally makes sense that

40:03

that conversation he had with Shane, oh yeah,

40:05

she's frustrated at me because I don't talk

40:07

enough. Well, if you're like this, then yeah,

40:09

I'd be frustrated with you too, asshole. And

40:13

not only that, he seems a bit sketchy

40:15

still, like in a way that

40:18

he never did until the end, the very final

40:20

episode of last season. And I wonder if that's

40:22

a choice that Andrew Lincoln

40:24

made that Shane changed Rick energetically.

40:26

And I think so, yeah. I've

40:30

been thinking a lot about the

40:32

concept of killing someone and killing a young

40:35

living. Especially if he's your friend.

40:37

Yeah, I've made that sense. I'm thinking about

40:40

you on a daily basis. Yeah, I'm really tired out. But

40:43

I think it's in the Harry Potter books.

40:45

There's the concept of when you

40:47

kill someone, it splits your soul into, and that hangs

40:50

on a lot of things. It's a bit like, do

40:52

you believe in a soul? Do you believe in this?

40:54

But it's a concept that's always really stuck with me

40:56

because it's like the most inhumane thing

40:58

you can do of taking life, take something away

41:00

from you, and it splits you in a way

41:03

that you can't ever get back. Like it's something

41:05

that fundamentally cracks

41:07

the foundation of who you are. And

41:10

I do sort of think Rick's done that. I

41:12

do sort of think he's damaged his soul. He's

41:14

damaged a part of him that he never fully

41:17

gets back. No, I changed

41:20

him. And maybe he integrated it

41:22

in a healthy way by the

41:24

end, maybe. But he's still changed.

41:27

And I told him on stage,

41:29

Andrew Lincoln, that something like the

41:31

way that Rick evolved over time

41:34

into darkness, it really impacted

41:37

me because he changed from

41:39

a person that I felt safe

41:41

around to someone more like one of my

41:43

stepfathers who was not a good person. And

41:45

they were looking at me like, why are

41:47

you saying this on a panel? Like, you

41:50

sounds like you might need therapy. You know?

41:52

But. But

41:55

they're just like, that's nice. That's

41:57

nice. Yeah, exactly. Oh,

42:01

boy. Sometimes that stuff goes well, sometimes not so much.

42:03

I think it was okay. But anyways... You have to

42:05

have that moment other times, though. Okay.

42:08

But then when they go

42:10

to push even further, like, I think

42:12

they got into that one cell block,

42:14

but Rick insists that they push further

42:16

into the prison, and he gives a

42:18

look at Lori. And I don't

42:21

remember the next few episodes, so I was

42:24

thinking maybe that was the last they saw

42:26

each other, but you're saying it's not, huh?

42:28

It's not... It doesn't get

42:30

much better. It's not the last time. Yeah,

42:32

I wouldn't think so. It's not the last time. Yeah,

42:35

we've not forgotten a... Like, I

42:37

don't know, a rekindling or anything. No, no,

42:39

no, I know that. I mean, I remember

42:41

for sure that they left it

42:44

where he was still unavailable

42:46

to her, and I felt

42:48

like at some point he was going

42:50

to crack and realize, okay, I need

42:52

to chill

42:55

out and open up to her and figure this

42:57

out. But he just presumed

42:59

that he would have time to do that,

43:01

and I think not having

43:03

had that ends up driving him nuts where

43:05

we see her ghost, and I think that

43:08

makes sense now that I think about it,

43:10

because ghosts are about unfinished business. And

43:13

I think as well, there's part of him that maybe couldn't

43:15

see the wood for the trees with the baby, and

43:17

he never stopped to think that

43:20

maybe they'd have the baby but not Lori. Like, I don't

43:22

know, I wonder if there's part of him that's like, once

43:24

the baby's here, we'll sort it out. Once that thing is

43:26

done, we'll sort it out. He must have known there was

43:28

a big risk that she wasn't going to make it, but

43:31

yeah, maybe he didn't let himself think that. Like,

43:33

you know. Yeah, probably, I could see that. I

43:35

mean, he seems very good at compartmentalizing and not

43:38

letting himself go to certain places

43:40

and just focusing on whatever task needs

43:42

to be done. Yeah,

43:44

yeah. It's Blake

43:46

for the Grimesers. Yep,

43:49

it is. But I think it's a good

43:51

story. I think it's, I don't approve

43:53

of how Rick is handling it. Yeah,

43:55

I feel bad for Lori, but

43:57

I think it's a good story. Yeah, yeah.

44:02

Okay, for me, I guess

44:04

Andrea is still on it. No, I'm joking. All

44:08

right. Next. No, Andrea super

44:10

improved by being around Michonne. Ten out

44:12

of ten totally takes the sting out

44:16

of there. It's mainly about establishing that Michonne is

44:18

a badass. The two of them have become quite

44:20

close over the winter. They've had just as much

44:22

time as the group has. So they've been together

44:24

for about six or seven months. I

44:27

thought a lot about Michonne and Andrea's

44:29

relationship because we don't really see much

44:32

of it on the screen and Andrea's way

44:35

into the group. And it's an interesting kind

44:37

of loss that I don't think

44:39

they really talk about that much. I think Michonne mentions

44:41

Andrea a couple of times as it goes on, but

44:44

I like what the actresses, the actresses, I like

44:46

what the actors did with kind

44:49

of playing that closeness and the kind of

44:51

push and pull of Andrea being quite stubborn

44:53

and being very sick, kind of

44:55

doing the gone get thing of trying to make

44:57

Michonne leave. And we see

45:00

them setting off into the woods with

45:02

the pets and toe. And

45:04

we rewatch, they know

45:06

where that path is going to take

45:08

them, which is kind of exciting because

45:10

it's taking them straight to Merle and

45:13

to the governor. But it's watching it

45:15

for the first time. I remember being

45:17

like, I

45:20

love that they're focusing on Michonne

45:22

refusing to leave Andrea, even though

45:24

Andrea is like, I basically

45:26

get out of here, save yourself, leave

45:28

me for dead. Michonne refuses to. That

45:30

comes back, little tiny spoiler, but in

45:32

The One Who Live, Michonne

45:35

is so anti leaving anyone,

45:38

you know? And I wondered if they look back on

45:41

the scene and took that into

45:43

her story on purpose or if it's just a coincidence.

45:46

I always saw Michonne as being like, um, one

45:49

of my stepsisters is very hard

45:52

to win over. But once you've won her

45:54

over, she's like loyal for life.

45:56

Like unless you do something really, really terrible, but

45:58

she's loyal for life. And I've always viewed Michonne

46:00

kind of like that. It's like once

46:03

you're there, she will like fight to the fence

46:05

for you. But before that, she's

46:07

got to earn it there. And you just

46:09

get the sense that Andrea and her have

46:11

really hit that point of

46:13

loyalty and being together. And yeah,

46:15

it's good to see them. Good

46:19

to see good to have Michonne on the screen.

46:21

Feels like the group is

46:23

complete now. Yeah. And I I

46:26

feel like when Michonne first came in,

46:29

she didn't talk all that much. And

46:31

she looked mad a lot.

46:33

And I remember some

46:35

viewers didn't respond to her all that well

46:38

in the first few episodes because of

46:40

that. She just seems like a one

46:42

note character or something. But

46:45

even in this episode, she's showing great

46:47

kindness and she has a moment, like

46:49

a warm moment between Andrea. And so

46:51

I think the seeds are there. It's

46:54

funny because I was thinking of it because the last time

46:56

we saw her was in the ones who live. And,

46:59

you know, a lot of that is about without

47:01

spoiling it her her great love for Rick and

47:03

her great love for her family and this real

47:06

softness that here you just can't imagine. And

47:08

I noticed actually one of the things I

47:10

don't know that this is deliberate, but when

47:13

Laurie and Carol are

47:16

settling into their cell, I

47:19

think that's the cell where in season

47:21

four Michonne bonds with Judith. And,

47:23

you know, there's that moment where she's very

47:26

bothered by the baby crying. And then she kind

47:28

of melts a little bit and you see her

47:30

and you just actually start to form a bond.

47:32

And I was like, it's where Judith gets her

47:34

mom. So that made me happy. Yeah,

47:37

I forgot about that. We

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48:10

Vacation starts with VA. One

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that you love is all in one trip.

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Start yours at virginia.org. All

48:25

right. I'm going to talk about

48:27

some happiness and lightness because

48:30

as I said, I thought there was

48:32

so much heart in this episode and

48:35

little moments of joy and triumph

48:37

and connection. Sometimes

48:40

with really moving music that I'm always

48:42

a sucker for. The music was great.

48:45

They did horror strings really well as

48:47

well. There was a lot of old

48:49

school. I'm just

48:52

going to go through

48:54

some moments, these nice

48:56

moments, like a little moment of triumph after

48:58

they cleared all the Zeds in the yard. They

49:00

all just seem so proud of themselves and

49:02

they're like, something went right. And

49:04

after seven months of apparently

49:06

being right across the river from this place,

49:08

but not noticing it. And

49:11

T-dog laughs. And

49:16

Rick smiled at one point during it, just seeing,

49:18

looking at how well it was going. And

49:20

I love it. They have to get some wind sometimes. And that

49:22

was, that was cool. Yeah, absolutely. Just

49:25

Carol complimenting Rick. He, she, because Rick's gotten us a

49:27

lot further than I thought he would. I'll give him

49:29

that. Shane could have never done that. Well,

49:31

we don't know maybe, but it was nice to hear

49:33

her after what she was saying last time. Yeah.

49:37

Carol's having a great time this episode. She's thanking you.

49:40

Yeah. That's the next thing. Another

49:42

character settling in more to what they're going

49:44

to be for the rest of the

49:46

series is Carol. She's, she's, there's

49:48

a shift. She's more playful. She's more

49:51

comfortable with herself, more fun. And

49:54

that lasts more or less for the

49:56

rest of the series. I mean, she has a lot of

49:58

trauma, but you got, she's got that person. personality there. And

50:01

I think just trying to make sense of it,

50:03

she's free of Ed and she's

50:05

had time to grieve for Sophia. And now for the

50:08

first time in many, many

50:10

years, she can live for herself, you know? And

50:13

that just has a whole, an impact

50:15

on her being. Yeah.

50:18

And like Herschel, we learn is training her

50:20

up as kind of an assistant and Rick

50:22

talks about her having done gun training and

50:24

being quite a good shot. Now, like she's

50:26

getting a chance to do

50:28

her own thing, you know, to actually

50:30

learn and contribute. It's just, it's nice.

50:32

It's really nice. I remember, I think she's still

50:34

not great if I remember right. Yeah.

50:36

There's a funny bit where she's like, sorry. Yeah,

50:40

here. Yeah. That's that maybe that's what it was

50:42

like. Oh, sorry. But even that the way she

50:44

handles that, it's like, she's

50:46

not really apologizing to the level she probably

50:49

should be. It's kind

50:51

of funny. Sorry about that. I almost killed

50:53

me. But then here when she's, you

50:56

know, got a pain in her shoulder

50:58

and Daryl gives her a massage and

51:00

she seems impacted

51:02

by it in some way, turned on

51:05

or moved or something, you know, she probably hasn't

51:07

been shown any affection in also

51:10

many years, you know, who knows if she

51:13

ever has. And she says

51:15

pretty romantic screw around and he

51:17

goes, and he goes

51:19

all go down first. And she goes even better, which

51:21

was a sex joke. I don't know if everyone caught

51:23

that and he goes, stop

51:26

it. And it's hilarious. And I

51:29

think probably most people just write it off

51:31

as her completely joking, not at all serious

51:33

and maybe so. But I also know that

51:35

a lot of times how people test for

51:38

interest in a low risk way is to

51:40

joke. And then if there's no interest, you

51:42

can just, oh yeah, I was just joking.

51:45

And I, we saw last season that she

51:47

seemed to be like looking at

51:49

it with big eyes and everything and saying,

51:51

I need a good man. And I think

51:53

their relationship is still new and they're still

51:55

figuring out what it is. And maybe this

51:57

was like, okay, we figured it out right here. It's

52:00

not this, you know? Yeah, not that. I wondered if

52:02

it was a recurring joke with the two of them

52:04

that she'd maybe tried something. I don't know. Yeah,

52:07

I agree with you. I do agree. Yeah. But

52:09

we don't see much of that after this, if I

52:11

remember right. They also joke about

52:13

a little Shane. So

52:16

clearly everyone knows that the baby is Shane.

52:18

Yeah, that's hilarious. I love that. It's got

52:20

quite the effort. I,

52:23

this is kind of a long item, but

52:25

I really love when Beth and Maggie start

52:27

singing the parting glass. Oh, it's

52:29

so good. If anyone listening is a

52:31

fan of that song, there's an amazing, I

52:33

think it's from the Lockdowns. There's a version

52:36

of Hosey or singing this on YouTube. Oh,

52:38

cool. So good. There's also a

52:41

version of Lauren Cohan and Emily

52:43

Kinney, a produced version that you

52:45

can find on probably Spotify and

52:47

Apple Music. But that's a

52:49

Scottish song. Do you know it? It's

52:51

Irish. It's Irish. Well, I

52:53

read it was Scottish, but it's in Ireland.

52:56

That's what I read in YouTube. I just say

52:58

it with being Irish, but you know, let

53:01

me just have a wee peek here. Yeah.

53:04

Well, it's not one I was familiar

53:06

with. The parting

53:09

glass, oh, Scottish, there you go. But

53:11

it's also been sung in Ireland and remains popular.

53:13

Yeah. Oh,

53:16

interesting. So what I mean, they're

53:19

the bleeding over of Scottish people into Ireland

53:22

and Irish people into Scotland is substantial. So

53:24

it makes sense. I'm just looking at the

53:26

entry, but yeah, no, you're right. It is

53:28

a Scottish song. I mean,

53:30

I also found out that the first, that

53:32

the English were the first to refer to soccer,

53:35

to football as soccer, but then somehow

53:37

it became an American thing. But

53:40

anyway, so it's a

53:42

joy song and it's a

53:44

little sad, but it's just beautiful. And it's

53:46

about the bitter sweetness of saying goodbye. It's

53:49

often sung at the end of a gathering of

53:51

friends, but with hope for the future. And it

53:53

was just really lovely. And Emily Kinney is a

53:56

musician and I recommend checking

53:58

her stuff out too. And she used to

54:00

play. concerts at Walker Stalker Con that were

54:02

just really good. And so that's

54:04

another very nostalgic moment for

54:06

me, this scene. I

54:08

miss Emily Kenny. Like watching these episodes, I'm

54:10

like, you know what, Beth was

54:13

never my favorite character, but I

54:15

do miss her kind of. I did know it's nice to have her

54:17

back on screen and part of the group. I think it's just nice

54:19

to see Maggie with family and loved

54:21

ones, you know? She loses a lot.

54:24

Yeah. She loses them all. She ends up with Negan in

54:28

New York. And

54:30

I love the moment where Carl

54:33

seems to have a crush on Beth. Oh.

54:35

And she's in the cell talking about how soft the

54:38

beds are and he's going to check the one on

54:40

top and Herschel comes in and goes, you find your

54:42

cell yet? And you go,

54:44

oh, no, sorry. And then Herschel and

54:46

Beth smile at each other and she

54:48

kind of wiggles her head and

54:50

giggling, oh, he likes me. I don't know. So

54:54

funny. We see Glenn and

54:56

Maggie sitting on the bunk and he's checking

54:58

her for scratches and she's just adoring, looking

55:00

at him adoringly and soulful music playing. And

55:03

then you see Carol and Laurie sitting in

55:05

their cell smiling at each other. And it's

55:07

just all so sweet. I can hardly take

55:09

it. It makes me miss the heyday

55:12

of The Walking Dead. So much heart in

55:15

the show. I know. I

55:17

know. And then last, just Andrea Michonne

55:20

taking care of Andrea is just really nice.

55:22

And Andrea being selfless

55:24

to encouraging Michonne to go on

55:26

without her. You know,

55:29

so Andrea is still Andrea and

55:31

Laurie in this episode and they're still

55:33

getting positive points. I

55:35

think so. I've got a couple of ones to

55:37

add. Laurie says she hasn't felt

55:40

this good in weeks when I

55:42

don't know that she's telling the truth, but I think

55:44

she is. She's probably feeling better. I think

55:46

she's probably freaking out on the inside. I

55:49

think she's scared too. Like I don't even know

55:51

if she would feel as guilty as she does

55:53

if her life wasn't in danger and you

55:56

know, I mean, she must feel like she

55:58

has a death sentence compared to everyone else. You know,

56:01

when Glenn finishes his owl, he says, just like

56:03

mom used to make and throws the bone away,

56:05

which funny. Um,

56:08

I don't know if this is, these aren't so much funny as

56:10

nice. Um, teedog has

56:13

an idea about the water supply that

56:15

they actually use throughout season three and

56:17

four about digging a canal and making

56:19

sure the waters is clean so that

56:21

they can use it. Um, within

56:23

the prison, I thought that was really cool. I

56:25

hadn't realized it was him that came up with that. I'm

56:28

glad to hear that. I want teedog to have an

56:30

impact. Right. I mean, he's such a

56:32

little to do in season two. Um, and

56:35

Herschel mentioned seed and planting, which is lovely

56:37

because we do see that come to fruition.

56:39

And I think it's where the, uh, where

56:42

the title of the episode comes from. Part

56:45

of it. I feel like it's multiple

56:47

levels. It's also just the

56:51

seed of the future of

56:53

the Walking Dead. Yeah. Yeah.

56:55

I think it's because they're at the prison,

56:57

but, um, also there's a seed growing inside

56:59

Laurie. So maybe it works on multiple levels. I

57:02

was a bit like, Oh, we get judicine. Yes. Um,

57:05

we should probably not the right way to look at what's about to happen.

57:07

And we also have Carl and Beth, when

57:09

they're having the chat, Carl says, remember the

57:11

storage units. So we get a sense of like, they've

57:14

stayed in some pretty gross places over the

57:16

last seven months. So I wonder

57:18

what the storage unit situation was. So yeah, they're

57:21

clear. There must have been like weeks or

57:24

a day, like a couple of weeks

57:26

or stuff where they were in the

57:28

one place, but then got run out

57:30

or whatever. So yeah, pretty grim. I'm

57:32

just imagining that show where they get

57:34

to like raid a storage unit. Oh

57:36

yeah. Excellent. Okay. What

57:40

do you got next? Um,

57:42

but I liked how smart

57:44

the group have gotten. Um,

57:46

not just bad ass, but smart. Like there's

57:49

loads of little details in this episode

57:51

that I think speak to how adept

57:53

they've become

57:56

at dealing with things. So when

57:58

they stop. Rick says 15 year

58:01

on point. That's the first line of this episode,

58:03

which we can infer means 15 minute break. You're

58:05

the one on watch. He says that to Carl.

58:07

So clearly they've got into this habit of taking a

58:09

break, making a plan

58:11

and then moving forward. We

58:15

see them using those ethical calipers, the clips to

58:17

like open and close gates. We see them using

58:20

bolt cutters. A lot of this is just common

58:22

sense, but honestly, in zombie shows, you don't always

58:24

see it. So I'm just like glad to see

58:26

that carrying these things, they've got a tin opener,

58:28

they're carrying bolt cutters, they've

58:30

got palipers, like they're picking up things

58:33

that are useful. And

58:35

I wonder if that's Kirkman's influence at

58:37

all, because there was a lot of

58:39

that in the comic, the practicalities of

58:41

living in the apocalypse. Yeah, absolutely. I

58:43

think one of our feedback things mentions that about how

58:45

you keep warm in winter. But

58:48

yeah, I think it's that kind of thing really, it

58:50

just gives you faith that this group are actually

58:53

really fucking smart. And they're

58:55

through the fence. It's Maggie, Daryl,

58:57

T-dog, Glenn and Rick in hand

58:59

to hand combat. Three

59:02

of them in a circle going one on one

59:04

with these zombies. Rick yells at

59:06

T-dog don't break rank. And the reason T-dog has

59:08

broken rank is to grab a shield. And

59:10

because when they see that there's riot gear there, and

59:12

that sort of changes their tactics a little bit. They

59:15

do sort of address later why they don't continually

59:17

wear riot gear when Daryl's like, oh, we haven't

59:19

needed it up to now, why do we need

59:21

it now? But it is one of

59:23

those things where I'm like, surely the riot gear would have

59:26

been useful at other points. Yeah. They

59:28

close off more fences. It is tough. They close off

59:30

more fences. Well, I mean, one thing, I mean,

59:32

this is meta and something meta affecting

59:34

the story, but they probably just didn't want to

59:37

have their characters in

59:39

masks. Yeah, no, they wouldn't. You want to see

59:41

them emote. Yeah. I feel like the

59:43

Mandalorian. Daryl has to come up with some. Yeah.

59:46

Daryl's like, why would I have sleeves? That's

59:48

stupid. Yeah, exactly. It's like, I'm like, I'd

59:50

probably wear full armor and there's only a

59:52

post. I'm so close. I'm such a wimp. I'd

59:55

be like, okay. I mean, it's smart. Yeah, exactly.

59:58

Um, so group get

1:00:00

in, they get into the prison through this kind of

1:00:02

just smart logical behaviour. Rick manages to get the keys

1:00:04

from the ward and having keys is a really good

1:00:07

idea. He has a set and Daryl has a set.

1:00:09

There's not just the one set between the two of

1:00:11

them. When they find the

1:00:13

prison arsenal, we see that Herschel's also carrying

1:00:15

a little medical bag when they go on

1:00:19

their walk around the prison. Not

1:00:21

that it helps him much when his leg gets

1:00:23

bitten, but it's a cute detail. And I

1:00:26

think it's also very clever, although it

1:00:28

doesn't pay off really, that

1:00:30

they're spray painting the way that they've come so

1:00:32

that they can find their way back. Just these

1:00:34

little details where I'm like, capable

1:00:36

people can do shit. It's

1:00:38

not all magic or being a super hero. It

1:00:42

is, but then they end

1:00:45

up being surrounded

1:00:47

in what they call

1:00:49

in the tombs in the halls of the

1:00:51

prison. And I'm like,

1:00:53

well, you fucked up somewhere. Cause

1:00:55

we probably should have handled that

1:00:58

better somehow. Maybe trying

1:01:00

to lure the zombies out or something, you know? There's

1:01:06

always one. It was

1:01:09

just nice to see the prison then kind

1:01:12

of sea block before they sort of settle

1:01:15

in and make it their own. I've also

1:01:17

noticed I take notes

1:01:19

for the podcast in Notion, a little plug for

1:01:21

an option there. And I always have a picture

1:01:23

of the episode there. And I can see in

1:01:25

Daryl's arrow arsenal, I think he's used some feathers

1:01:27

from the owl on his arrows. There's

1:01:30

a couple of really distinctive feathers. I'm like, Oh,

1:01:32

that's cute detail. That is a nice touch. I

1:01:34

hope that's true. And I was thinking,

1:01:36

how does he keep making arrows? But yeah, there

1:01:39

you go. I will be useful. So

1:01:41

yeah, the little practical details I thought were

1:01:43

fantastic. That's respect

1:01:45

for animals. Like if I'm going to have to kill you,

1:01:47

I'm going to use every part of it. Yeah,

1:01:50

exactly. And yeah,

1:01:52

Herschel and Teedog's idea is about planting and

1:01:54

water. I think that's just excellent. Karen

1:01:57

used to love all that stuff too. Oh yeah.

1:02:00

Aaron would know what to do with four. Yeah. All

1:02:04

right. Herschel. So

1:02:07

in that opening scene where they're scouring

1:02:09

this house for supplies, they

1:02:12

all come through the door one by

1:02:15

one and you see Herschel walk through

1:02:17

at one point and just seeing him

1:02:19

with that beard and that look, it

1:02:21

really hit me because that's how I

1:02:23

remember Scott Wilson at all those Walker

1:02:26

Stucker cons and it

1:02:29

was just nice to see. And

1:02:32

then I guess we

1:02:34

already talked about it, but he

1:02:36

really transforms into this sort of

1:02:38

wise, caring, comforting person. And

1:02:42

when he says to Lori,

1:02:44

you know, she's like, I

1:02:46

don't want to put Rick through. I put him in Shane

1:02:48

at odds. You know who doesn't give a shit about that?

1:02:50

This baby. It was so nice. And

1:02:55

then they push into the prison,

1:02:57

they get surrounded and I,

1:03:00

this whole time I'm thinking, I guess

1:03:03

this is the episode, right? Where he gets his leg out.

1:03:05

There's only a few minutes left. Is it going to happen

1:03:07

right now? And then, um, then

1:03:10

he stepped near this quiet one and got

1:03:12

bit. I'd forgotten that's what happened. And

1:03:15

I can't remember what we thought at the time. Did

1:03:17

we think he's a goner?

1:03:19

Because we didn't know this is where we also

1:03:21

learn another sort of tenant of the walking dead

1:03:23

that if you get bitten and you, it's an

1:03:26

extremity and you chop it off in time, you

1:03:28

won't turn, which had an impact through the rest

1:03:30

of the series. I was trying to think, yeah,

1:03:32

cause we saw a lot of, you know, amputees,

1:03:35

but it turns out most of the amputees were

1:03:37

for some other reason, not because they got bit

1:03:39

like Aaron and Carl's

1:03:42

eye and even Merle, but, um, Tyrese,

1:03:45

they got his, I think arm off, but

1:03:47

it was too late. Yeah.

1:03:49

But we always thought that though. Like

1:03:51

it was always like, um, if

1:03:54

someone got bitten, they made a point to

1:03:56

show that it was on the neck or

1:03:58

torso and you're like, okay. Nothing can be

1:04:00

done about that. You know, I feel like Tyrese was

1:04:03

like upper arm. So it was. Yeah. Yeah.

1:04:06

Close. Yeah. So anyway, um,

1:04:08

Rick, Rick right away, like the only, only

1:04:10

one way to keep you alive. And I,

1:04:12

uh, he sounds like he knows for sure,

1:04:15

but he's just guessing,

1:04:17

right? He doesn't know. And

1:04:20

they met somebody, they met off and then they

1:04:22

were fighting and they died. And

1:04:26

then remember T dog's toe. Yeah.

1:04:30

Or like, remember Jimmy,

1:04:32

no, there was a Jimmy. Remember D

1:04:34

who we never talk about. Yeah. That's

1:04:37

great. We saved them from becoming a zombie and

1:04:39

then they died of

1:04:41

cancer. No, I don't know. That's

1:04:44

horrible. Cancer. Sorry

1:04:47

guys. Uh, anyway, uh, so let's

1:04:49

get back to the limb chopping

1:04:52

off much lighter. Um, so,

1:04:54

uh, the, I think

1:04:56

Rick hits it nine times, eight

1:04:59

or nine times, and it's so

1:05:01

brutal and gross. Uh,

1:05:03

and I love that, that

1:05:06

you see the prisoners there. What

1:05:09

an entrance. Cause

1:05:13

the prisoner don't know. They

1:05:15

won't know shit. They don't know

1:05:17

that like everyone's infected or like,

1:05:19

yeah, it's what they know. But I

1:05:21

remember them saying that Andrew Lincoln made a

1:05:24

point to, even though he didn't have to

1:05:26

be there during their reaction shots, that he

1:05:28

still went through that scene again, just to

1:05:30

get their reaction, you know, when they were

1:05:33

filming them. So, uh, that's

1:05:35

really cool. He was kind of guy, but

1:05:40

I still, I still don't remember. I probably Karen

1:05:42

and I were like, so do you think he's

1:05:44

going to make it or not? You know, at

1:05:46

this point, yeah. You

1:05:49

wouldn't know. Yeah. We wouldn't know for sure. I mean, I

1:05:51

think I probably thought it was kind

1:05:53

of dumb that you would survive. Cause it

1:05:56

seems like, well, I don't know. I

1:05:58

don't know how fast things. spread through

1:06:01

the bloodstream. I don't know. I

1:06:04

know if your adrenaline's up, it will go a

1:06:06

lot quicker because your blood's pumping faster, but yeah.

1:06:09

Who's to say? But whatever it's zombies. So, What

1:06:14

do you got next to anything else? Nothing else.

1:06:17

Just notes for me. How about you? I

1:06:19

had a little bit about when they first found

1:06:22

and began to clear the prison. Once

1:06:25

they get there, Rick start shouting out orders, Glenn,

1:06:28

Maggie, and Beth draws many as you can over

1:06:30

there points, pop them through the fence. Daryl go

1:06:32

back to the other tower. Carol, you become a

1:06:34

pretty good shot. Take your time. We don't have

1:06:36

a lot of ammo to waste Herschel, you and

1:06:39

Carl take this tower. I

1:06:41

think one cool thing about Rick

1:06:43

and we saw this when he was planning, um, search

1:06:47

parties for Sophia to and other

1:06:49

things that he's quit with the

1:06:51

tactics. You know, he, yeah,

1:06:54

just coming up with a really fast and

1:06:56

delegating task and roles and being really decisive

1:06:58

in a, in a moment like that. And

1:07:01

maybe that's his police training. Um,

1:07:03

but I mean, like, yeah, it worked really well

1:07:05

with the yard, but not so much when they

1:07:08

went inside the prison. So he also doesn't let

1:07:10

Glenn do the suicide run, which I liked. He

1:07:12

does it himself. Yeah. It was less than Glenn

1:07:14

was doing all the shit jobs

1:07:16

in this one. Yeah. They

1:07:18

made it. They were making a point of that. Like, okay, we're

1:07:20

not going to do that to Glenn anymore. Yeah.

1:07:23

The writers. I mean, okay. Let's get into

1:07:25

notes. We got, I thought

1:07:27

it was neat that they spotted that there were

1:07:29

civilians in there because part of me was thinking,

1:07:31

wouldn't you just be worried that like the prison

1:07:34

was already a community. Um,

1:07:36

but I liked the way they kind of did some,

1:07:38

they did some kind of analysis of what was likely

1:07:40

to have happened. And it turned out to be pretty

1:07:42

accurate. Um, and it is a gamble

1:07:45

that does pay off. Although horrible things do happen at

1:07:47

the prison. I think it is, it is something that

1:07:49

you can completely understand why they're so keen to do

1:07:51

it. Yeah. I think the

1:07:53

prison on the plus side, it's

1:07:56

very easy to secure prisons

1:07:58

are secure. But on the. negative

1:08:00

side and I think this should

1:08:02

be at least somewhat of a factor depressing

1:08:04

as fuck to spend all

1:08:07

your time there you know I mean part

1:08:09

of me is like when Laurie's like I'm

1:08:11

giving birth in a prison I'm like bitch

1:08:13

you're alive in the zombie apocalypse but no

1:08:15

that's horrible that is actually pretty crazy I

1:08:17

think I was excited for them to get

1:08:19

to the prison but I was by

1:08:22

the time they left I was ready for them

1:08:24

to get out of there too if I'm right

1:08:26

bring on terminus all

1:08:29

right a few notes I'm glad the

1:08:31

zombies still seem creepy and ominous maybe

1:08:33

more now than ever or at

1:08:36

least not I mean the pilot they were pretty bad but

1:08:39

you know later on they just sort of

1:08:41

turn into fodder a lot of the times

1:08:43

like cattle almost but here the way they

1:08:45

move and the creepiness coming up

1:08:47

on the eye or over the one zombie shoulder that's just

1:08:49

waiting in the house it's really well done

1:08:51

or even just like when T-dog looks

1:08:54

outside the house and they're approaching like night

1:08:56

of the living dead style or even when

1:08:58

they're camping and they're kind of milling around

1:09:00

outside the fences somehow that still seemed creepy

1:09:02

to me so

1:09:04

they get the hang of shanking

1:09:06

them through the under the chin

1:09:10

and that's a quick way to

1:09:12

dispose of a zombie and it makes sense

1:09:14

that it would be so quick because that

1:09:16

part I'm touching under my chin here

1:09:19

is soft but then they become butterheads

1:09:21

later where they can just go right

1:09:23

through the skull and I'm like no

1:09:25

I don't know about that zombies

1:09:28

if you very soft ahead I guess

1:09:30

so but you can still bite people

1:09:32

somehow the teeth stay hard uh Lori

1:09:35

worrying about what if the baby's dead inside her

1:09:37

and rips its way out is exactly what I'd

1:09:39

be freaking about too and um

1:09:43

they are setting us up where then she says

1:09:45

let's say it lives and I die during childbirth

1:09:48

Herschel says that's not going to happen but it

1:09:50

is exactly what is going to happen and

1:09:53

I'm thinking after Sophia we probably should

1:09:55

have known you know but like

1:09:58

you said we're thinking about what happened in the car

1:10:00

comics, so we were just wondering if it was, Lori

1:10:02

was gonna go out that way. I

1:10:05

just could never see them killing a baby on the show.

1:10:07

That was the thing that always held me back. They

1:10:10

never did, right? I don't think. No. Girl,

1:10:13

little kids, but not. Yes.

1:10:15

My kids cried. Babies never

1:10:17

ever. Uh, I

1:10:19

was thinking in

1:10:21

part when I first watched this, I

1:10:24

was probably just glad to be rid of Shane and

1:10:26

wanted the show to prove that it

1:10:28

could be good without Shane. Now I

1:10:30

don't feel quite that way. I, I, I'm

1:10:34

much more into John Bernthal's performance,

1:10:36

so I kind of miss him. And

1:10:39

then last thing is I just, I remember, if

1:10:41

I remember right, cause I also

1:10:43

got to go be a zombie in the

1:10:45

finale of this season. Oh,

1:10:48

were you on the prison? Yeah. Ooh.

1:10:51

Yeah. And I got to

1:10:53

film one scene in the

1:10:56

tombs, you know, the hallway is there. Cool.

1:10:58

And I didn't like really, you couldn't just

1:11:00

like walk around and stuff, but I got

1:11:02

the impression that the set

1:11:04

was actually pretty small. It was

1:11:06

like maybe like one corner

1:11:09

and then they would just shoot it from different angles to make

1:11:11

it look like it was like a maze, something

1:11:14

like that. Interesting. Yeah. Well,

1:11:16

it's definitely lit. You probably could get away with quite a

1:11:18

lot of that. Yeah, for sure. And

1:11:20

Karen was out there with

1:11:22

me. And so she

1:11:24

said a while back that she would come on

1:11:27

for the finale to talk about our experience. So

1:11:29

hopefully she still remembers. She said that and she

1:11:31

will come. We'll see. Or

1:11:34

when you're in Scotland, I'll interview you about it and we can

1:11:36

just tack it on to a podcast. Yeah, that'd be cool. All

1:11:39

right. I've got my IMDB

1:11:41

dive. Um,

1:11:45

Scott Wilson had the idea to carry a medical bag

1:11:47

when a few of the group members were clearing out

1:11:49

the prison. So that was a character choice. I like

1:11:51

it. This is actress Deny

1:11:53

Gareera's first time on screen as Michonne. The character

1:11:55

of Michonne was introduced at the end of the

1:11:58

season two finale, but Gareera did. portray her

1:12:00

as she hadn't been cast at the time, an

1:12:02

extra filled in the spot of Michonne in that

1:12:04

episode. I don't know if I

1:12:06

did my deep dive last time, but in the

1:12:09

Talking Dead after the season 2 finale, that was

1:12:11

when they announced that Dinaiguera had been cast. So

1:12:13

they did that, they carried the wave

1:12:16

then. This episode

1:12:18

begins the safety behind Barr's story arc

1:12:20

from the comics. When

1:12:22

Carl enters the kitchen of the house, they scavenge

1:12:24

the house and you can see a

1:12:27

kind of smit on the counter. This

1:12:29

is the same word

1:12:31

they used on Waterworld when they showed the

1:12:33

can of supposed spam. So

1:12:36

spam clearly didn't want to sponsor the Walking Dead.

1:12:40

Creator Robert Kirkman considers the present to

1:12:42

be a character in the show. The

1:12:44

present set was designed by a walker,

1:12:46

production designer Graham Grace Walker. The

1:12:51

method Daryl uses to kill the prison guard

1:12:53

walker by pushing his helmet forward and driving

1:12:56

his knife into the base of the walker

1:12:58

skull is one of the century neutralization techniques

1:13:00

taught by the US army. How

1:13:03

do you do it? Push

1:13:05

the helmet forward and get them at the back of the

1:13:07

neck. In the back of the skull? Oh, okay. See,

1:13:10

I remember that from the expats and like

1:13:12

how you deal with aliens like stamming back

1:13:14

of the skull. In the comic,

1:13:17

it was Dale and Alan rather than Herschel

1:13:19

who had their legs amputated. The writers like

1:13:21

to diverge from the original story to keep

1:13:23

viewers guessing. I like

1:13:25

this one. The episode starts off with a close

1:13:27

up view of an eye and then pans out

1:13:29

to show Walker's face. The finale episode for the

1:13:32

season starts out the same way only when the

1:13:34

camera pans out, it reveals the governor's face, possibly

1:13:36

a metaphor for how the season starts off with

1:13:39

Walker's being the biggest danger to the group and

1:13:41

ends with them learning that other people are off.

1:13:43

Oh yeah. Feature threat to them. Yep. By

1:13:46

the way, I think I would say Bob is more

1:13:48

the replacement for Dale in the comics.

1:13:51

Yeah. That's a

1:13:53

bit of.

1:13:57

When they cut the chain link fence to enter the prison, there are

1:13:59

no. cast

1:22:00

and the gritty authenticity of writer director

1:22:02

Jeff Nichols approach. The bike riders offers

1:22:04

a conventionally impactful look at motorcycle culture.

1:22:07

So I'll watch that just to see,

1:22:09

you know, this one's interesting.

1:22:11

Yeah, I like it. Next,

1:22:14

the Walking Dead

1:22:16

Deluxe, you know, they're re-releasing

1:22:18

monthly Walking Dead comics this

1:22:20

time in color and with notes in the

1:22:23

back from Kirkman. It's really cool. And

1:22:25

they've had a bunch of revelations from him

1:22:27

about certain plans he had for the story

1:22:29

in the comic that changed over time. Uh,

1:22:33

so he had planned to kill off

1:22:35

Andrea in issue five. She

1:22:37

ended up being one of the longest living

1:22:39

characters. Yeah, she did. He'd

1:22:42

planned to have Maggie kill Negan before he

1:22:44

had a chance to reform. He had the

1:22:46

script written, but I guess he changed his

1:22:48

mind because of input from Charlie Adler, the

1:22:51

illustrator. Oh, Charlie, you've

1:22:53

closed us a world of pain here.

1:22:55

I mean, I much prefer that story

1:22:58

in the comics. Uh,

1:23:01

I think Jeffrey Negan is amazing at how he plays him,

1:23:03

but I prefer the way they did his story in the

1:23:05

comics. Um, Kirkman considered having

1:23:08

Shane kill Rick in issue

1:23:10

six. That

1:23:12

would have been crazy. That would have been wild. And

1:23:14

Carl would have seen it, but Shane

1:23:16

wouldn't have known that Carl saw it. So that would have

1:23:18

caused a lot of weirdness. He said

1:23:21

Shane would have been the first real villain, big

1:23:23

villain in the book. And he would have been

1:23:25

with the group on the same side as them,

1:23:27

the enemy sleeping the next tent over crazy.

1:23:31

I'm glad they didn't do that. Um, he,

1:23:34

and then he said they, he, for

1:23:36

a long time, he was going

1:23:38

to end the story with the zombies having

1:23:40

taken over the world and everyone dead. I

1:23:43

remember reading this. Yeah. Yeah. And he

1:23:46

said over time, he started to realize

1:23:48

that's too bleak. I can't do that.

1:23:50

He even told like Norman Reedus and

1:23:52

Greg Nicotero about it. And he said

1:23:54

they pretended to like it or something.

1:23:59

Uh, and then he said the one. One thing that

1:24:01

he never considered that people always ask him about or

1:24:03

suggest is having Rick wake up from his coma and

1:24:05

it was all a dream. He said, I would never

1:24:07

do that. No, I'll

1:24:09

be lame. Yeah.

1:24:11

And then last, the Podkastika

1:24:14

Best Character Tournament part two is

1:24:16

over. We had it on the

1:24:19

Podkastika group where it listed out

1:24:21

111 characters from Podkastika covered

1:24:26

shows and then pit them together

1:24:28

in a bracket style tournament. So it'd be two

1:24:30

at a time and we'd vote over the course

1:24:32

of a day and whoever won would go on

1:24:34

to the next round. And

1:24:37

out of the shows

1:24:39

were all the shows we cover, Stranger Things, Rings

1:24:41

of Power, White Lotus, Cobra Kai, Game of Thrones,

1:24:43

of course, The Walking Dead. And I'm

1:24:45

going to give who went into the last few rounds

1:24:47

and see if you can guess who won each vote

1:24:50

because you haven't seen any of that, right? No,

1:24:52

no, I've seen nothing. I'm a Facebook hermit.

1:24:56

Yeah. Yeah. So that can

1:24:58

be a benefit. So in a lot of ways. So

1:25:01

for you. So quarterfinals, Maggie

1:25:04

versus Baby Yoda. Maggie.

1:25:07

Yeah, you're right. Yeah.

1:25:10

And she also beat Negan, which was a close race that

1:25:12

she beat. Daryl

1:25:14

versus Carol. Oh,

1:25:16

that's what it's like to play this game. You're

1:25:19

like, I got to kill one of my children.

1:25:22

It's on the group. So I'm going to see Daryl. Yeah,

1:25:25

but it was close. Yeah, it will

1:25:27

be Michonne versus Arya Stark. Oh,

1:25:31

I'd love to see it. Oh,

1:25:35

I'm going to see Michonne. Yes. Yeah.

1:25:38

Yeah. And the last one in

1:25:40

the quarterfinals, Tyrion Lannister versus Jon Dory. Tyrion.

1:25:43

Yeah. But Jon, we're

1:25:45

that far. You know, I mean, Jon's

1:25:48

great. If anything good came out of fear of

1:25:50

The Walking Dead, it was Jon Dory. It was

1:25:52

him. I would love to see the two

1:25:54

of them have a conversation. Yeah, absolutely. They'd

1:25:56

be best of buds. Jon

1:25:59

would give him a little. caramel candy and

1:26:01

Tyrion would drink to it. Okay,

1:26:04

here's the semi-finals, Maggie versus Darryl.

1:26:08

Darryl. Yep. Yep. Good,

1:26:11

you're getting them all. Michonne versus Tyrion. Michonne.

1:26:15

Nope. No, Tyrion. Tyrion's a

1:26:17

powerhouse. Wow. Okay. And

1:26:22

the final is Darryl versus Tyrion.

1:26:24

Who won? Darryl. Yeah,

1:26:27

you're right. Darryl won. And

1:26:29

then, so we've done this a couple years

1:26:31

back and Rick Grimes won.

1:26:34

No. And so we left Rick out

1:26:36

this time until the very end and had Darryl

1:26:38

versus Rick. So who do

1:26:40

you think won that one? I

1:26:43

hope Rick, but I think probably Darryl. It was

1:26:45

Rick, but it was close. Oh, it wouldn't be.

1:26:47

It was very close. That's hard. That's hard. Both

1:26:49

worthy. And then some people were complaining, you know,

1:26:52

you should have less Walking Dead characters because they're

1:26:54

always going to win in the script. And I'm

1:26:56

like, well, it's about our favorite characters and it's

1:26:58

kind of biased. So I'm

1:27:01

walking dead group. Let's get over it. We

1:27:03

love you all. And it was great. It

1:27:05

was fun for so many shows. I did

1:27:07

one. I was just like, I wonder if just

1:27:09

underneath it all, we still have more of

1:27:12

a Walking Dead fan base, but Tyrion and

1:27:14

Arya getting that far. Nice. Yeah.

1:27:17

And when we did it the first time, I think it was in 2022, it came down to

1:27:19

almost the same

1:27:22

few characters at the end and Tyrion did

1:27:24

beat Darryl then. So it was Tyrion versus

1:27:26

Rick in the end. But we were closer

1:27:28

to Game of Thrones, I think. And well,

1:27:30

we were and Darryl didn't have a

1:27:32

spin off. So maybe it was a different slightly

1:27:35

different group of people. It was a different time. But,

1:27:37

you know, it was close. Interesting.

1:27:39

Oh, that's exciting. Yeah, it was really

1:27:42

fun. We are

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and conditions apply. All right, let's move along

1:28:45

to listen to scrolls and grunts. Beth

1:28:53

Nichols says I'm so excited to be

1:28:55

in season three. Finally, I love the

1:28:57

governor. I think season three is quite

1:28:59

a pivotal series for our main characters,

1:29:01

especially Maggie, Darryl, Rick and even Carl.

1:29:05

Yep. And Herschel and

1:29:07

Herschel. Josie Bornectel

1:29:09

says I love this episode. It always sticks out

1:29:11

in my mind. It's the first time we see

1:29:14

the gang handle a group of walkers in

1:29:17

this methodical way. And it really is a

1:29:19

turning point. The tension between Rick and Laurie

1:29:21

is so uncomfortable. It really highlights the true

1:29:23

love we later see between Rick and Michonne.

1:29:26

A totally different more passionate love them with

1:29:28

Laurie. Yeah, I will say that. Also,

1:29:32

I'm sorry to say but Laurie's belly

1:29:34

is ridiculous. I guess

1:29:36

right. So I don't like to comment on

1:29:38

women's bodies like this cool. But

1:29:41

doesn't look right. I mean, yeah, it

1:29:43

looks fake. It's fake. It not it

1:29:45

no look great. She

1:29:49

goes on I love Carol's excitement when they

1:29:51

clear the prison. It's so crazy to watch

1:29:53

old scenes and see her growth. Yeah, we're

1:29:55

witnessing it firsthand. The iconic scenes with her

1:29:57

and Darryl on top of the bus. know,

1:38:00

you know, because it's interesting to know that

1:38:02

he, you know, is saying

1:38:04

that about how it was portrayed.

1:38:07

I am intrigued by that. Thank you for sharing

1:38:09

it. Um, we've

1:38:12

got Gemma Hall preview for next week. Cause I

1:38:14

think Gemma is joining us for season three episode.

1:38:17

Gemma says, this is probably

1:38:19

one of my favorite episodes. I absolutely love it.

1:38:22

The silence at the beginning sequence is masterful and

1:38:24

shows the cohesion of a group that I've spent

1:38:26

a winter together. The prison invasion is

1:38:28

so captivating and intense. I must have seen

1:38:30

it countless times. Rick keeps pushing

1:38:32

the group further and further in, but it is

1:38:34

working as they are one almost. Beth

1:38:37

singing and then Maggie joining in is emotional.

1:38:39

There's the flirtation with Daryl and Carol that

1:38:41

sent fans wild, but never me as I

1:38:43

know their best friends. The tension

1:38:45

between Rick and Laurie is palpable. Rick

1:38:47

and Rory, I think. Rick and Rory. I'm sorry.

1:38:50

And they're the worst over the winter. It's life

1:38:52

or death now. And Rick knew he had to

1:38:54

bring them in the prison and risk the consequences.

1:38:56

There's a feeling of relief now when they finally

1:38:59

entered the cell block and are safe, but it

1:39:01

doesn't last long. And honestly, Herschel getting bit and

1:39:03

the leg chopping was one of the most F'd

1:39:05

up things ever. Love the reveal

1:39:07

of the prisoners too. The

1:39:09

dingy bloody atmosphere really started season three with

1:39:11

a bang. And I remember being so overjoyed

1:39:13

and freaked out like, yes, walking dead is

1:39:15

back in the house and it's amazing. I

1:39:17

can't get enough really. Oh,

1:39:20

thanks. Yeah. Looking forward to talking

1:39:22

to you next time. Definitely. Here's

1:39:25

Steve Brown. Hello, the cast of

1:39:27

us. This is Steve. And this is where

1:39:29

season three, episode one seed. What do they

1:39:31

think they are lost opening up on a

1:39:33

eye opening? Okay. How long has it

1:39:35

been? The group has gotten a little proficient. They got

1:39:38

guns with silencers and even Carl's walk around with a

1:39:40

gun with a silencer on it. Okay. It's been quite

1:39:42

a bit because Laurie showing quite a bit. Oh, is

1:39:44

that the prison that Rick and Daryl

1:39:46

are seeing right now? And Daryl says that's a shame

1:39:48

at first, but that's going to change.

1:39:51

Oh, good shot, Daryl. Saving Rick. It occurs

1:39:53

to me, this is really how they're going

1:39:55

to become proficient. This having to take the

1:39:57

prison like this, they're going to become proficient

1:39:59

at this. killing walkers. Herschel

1:40:02

just used the word seed, mic

1:40:04

drop, talking about planting of

1:40:06

course. So who's Darryl calling little Shane? Is

1:40:08

that, is he calling Rick that? That doesn't

1:40:10

make any sense. Forgot about this little flirting

1:40:13

between Carol and Dale. I'm glad it never

1:40:15

went anywhere, anywhere like romantically with them though.

1:40:17

And Lauren, Kohan and Emily, can you do

1:40:19

sound really good together singing? And we have

1:40:22

the first, I'm doing stuff Lori. Thanks. And

1:40:25

we have our first glimpse of Michonne. And

1:40:28

I'm assuming Lori's with her somewhere. Michonne, very

1:40:30

proficient with that katana. Oh and Rick takes

1:40:32

out the one with the gas master. They

1:40:34

all figured out now they got a knife

1:40:36

them underneath their helmets but ugh.

1:40:39

So they've secured one cell block and now

1:40:41

they can be, rest

1:40:43

a little bit. Herschel

1:40:45

chuckling at Beth and Carl. I don't think there was

1:40:47

anything meant by that. I think Carl's just innocent but

1:40:49

it's still, he's got a little bit of crush on

1:40:52

Beth maybe. Carl does I mean. Okay

1:40:54

so now we're back to Michonne. Of course we don't

1:40:56

know it's Michonne yet. We have her to speak and

1:40:58

we haven't seen Lori yet either. I keep saying Lori.

1:41:00

I mean Andrea. Lori Holden is the actor. Okay so

1:41:02

how long has it been? Because Lori, Andrea

1:41:05

just said all winter. I know Rick said something

1:41:07

about through the winter. Of course Lucy's probably already

1:41:09

explained this when she gave the timeline. Oh I

1:41:12

never even thought about that fear of the baby

1:41:14

being stillborn in the womb and being a walker.

1:41:17

Ooh. Everybody's suiting up except Rick to go take

1:41:19

the next cell block. And Darryl because Darryl

1:41:21

said he wouldn't wear that stuff. This

1:41:23

is tense with the flashlights and it's dark

1:41:25

and all the walkers and now they're separated.

1:41:28

Oh oh and Herschel just got bit.

1:41:31

Rick hacking into Herschel's leg. Oh

1:41:33

and we have prisoners. And

1:41:36

of course that's where the episode ends. All

1:41:38

right on to next week. Oh

1:41:40

Steve, Steve revisited. I love it. Yeah

1:41:42

sounds like he hasn't seen it in

1:41:45

a while. When we get to like

1:41:47

season 10 will Steve live

1:41:49

Steve the live Steve and

1:41:51

then we'll like be through the looking glass. Like he'll listen

1:41:53

to his live Steve and comment on the original life. And

1:41:55

then comment on what he said. Oh I

1:41:57

made a comment about such and such. Yeah.

1:41:59

I think like through the looking glass. I

1:42:01

love it. Do at least

1:42:04

one of those. We'll see. We'll see how it goes. Billy

1:42:07

Thompson says the opening to this episode really

1:42:09

highlights how rough the winner's been for them,

1:42:11

but also how badass they are now. I

1:42:13

remember seeing this episode for the first time

1:42:15

and thinking, damn, Carl's so cool now. Yeah.

1:42:18

I always wondered what the winter would have been like and

1:42:20

would have loved to see it in the show. Yeah, we

1:42:22

did too. And they had a lot of wintery stuff in

1:42:25

the comic and, but they just can't do it in Georgia.

1:42:28

I know we see a glimpse of this later in the

1:42:30

series. That's true. But would you guys have liked to see

1:42:32

it earlier and a bit more fleshed out? Definitely.

1:42:36

Maybe just a one episode recap of the time in between

1:42:38

that night on the farm and now, or

1:42:40

maybe in flashbacks throughout the season. I

1:42:43

would have loved that seeing Daryl with underwear

1:42:45

wrapped around his head like they do in the

1:42:47

comics. I forgot about that. Carol

1:42:50

asking Daryl if he wanted to screw around was

1:42:52

hilarious. Still can't tell if she was completely joking

1:42:54

or maybe would have given it a go in

1:42:57

that moment, but I'm happy they do just end

1:42:59

up best friends. Such an

1:43:01

iconic scene when Beth sings famously followed

1:43:03

up by stuff and things. Michonne's opening

1:43:05

scene was incredible. All that Walker killing

1:43:07

was awesomeness for two packets of aspirin.

1:43:10

I'll take it. I mean, it was,

1:43:13

yeah, it was like all that coolness and

1:43:16

like, oh, badass. And their reward was some

1:43:18

dog food. They don't even want an owl.

1:43:23

Overall, one of my favorite episodes for sure. We

1:43:26

really are starting to head towards peak walking dead

1:43:28

now. I love it. Sorry it's a long one,

1:43:30

but there's so much to talk about this episode.

1:43:32

One last thing. I promise my don't get bit

1:43:34

t-shirt came yesterday. I did show it off in

1:43:37

all its glory in the rewatch chat. Just wanted

1:43:39

to say it's brilliant, really comfy, fits well and

1:43:41

came to me in the UK a lot faster

1:43:43

than scheduled. Super happy with it. I would 100%

1:43:45

recommend getting one. If anyone's been thinking about it

1:43:47

and I guess it helps the

1:43:49

show, right? Anyway, thanks guys. Bye. Well,

1:43:52

yeah, so there's, uh,

1:43:55

we had this listener back in the

1:43:57

day who was this really cool artist.

1:58:00

that you felt totally different, Jason. All

1:58:02

right. Talk to you guys later. Peace and love. Bye. It's

1:58:07

all the CRM's fault. It's all the

1:58:09

CRM. Let's blame the CRM. I'm

1:58:13

scheduling conflicts. Boo. All

1:58:21

right. That is our show episode 586. Thanks

1:58:24

for listening everybody. That's

1:58:27

a good one. Next episode, Walking

1:58:29

Dead season three, episode two, Sick.

1:58:31

It's a sick ass episode. Don't

1:58:33

be sick. If

1:58:35

you want to write in or leave us a

1:58:37

voice message about it, you can find all our

1:58:40

contact information at podcastica.com. While

1:58:42

you're there, please check out our other podcasts. Like

1:58:44

I mentioned, Wendy, Renny and Veronica put out their

1:58:46

episode covering House of the Dragon season two, episode

1:58:48

one, A Sun for a Sun, which I personally

1:58:50

thought was quite an episode. I feel great. Yeah.

1:58:53

Yeah. I don't know if I'm in a different

1:58:55

mood or if it was better, but I didn't

1:58:57

really love the first season. It was good, but

1:59:00

I wasn't getting into it. But for some reason I was

1:59:02

really getting into this episode. Maybe it's just, I don't

1:59:05

even want to say it because I don't

1:59:07

want to give it away. But anyway, um,

1:59:09

also, uh, there should be an episode of

1:59:12

let it rip up there. In

1:59:14

the coming days. Yep. That'd

1:59:17

be good. The bear one with Lucy

1:59:19

and Peter. Well, we just talked about bears

1:59:21

to talk about bears. And I

1:59:23

also want to mention strange indeed had been

1:59:25

on a month's long break, but lately Reema

1:59:28

and Paik have been back covering the third

1:59:30

and final season of sweet tooth on Netflix.

1:59:32

So it's really good to have them back.

1:59:34

Oh, nice. That's nice. Yeah.

1:59:37

And this episode has been made possible

1:59:39

by Patreon supporters like Veronica brothers who

1:59:41

pledged their support at patreon.com/Jason Kebasi. So

1:59:43

thank you to Veronica. If you guys

1:59:45

have been enjoying the rewatch and want

1:59:47

to help support the podcasting, I appreciate

1:59:50

it. All

1:59:52

right. That is our show. Thanks for listening.

1:59:55

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