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1:28

H-E-L-P. Like

1:35

most people, I didn't give that much thought to

1:37

the energy around me or how we used

1:39

it. That

1:41

was until my energy bills started

1:43

going up and up. Or

1:48

much? Am

1:51

I buying the electricity or buying the

1:54

entire powerpunk? Then

1:56

I heard something that really stuck in my

1:59

head. One area but only

2:01

should. Be anything about the doesn't get

2:03

enough terrified and energy efficiency I

2:05

couldn't stop thinking about over again or

2:07

to I tunes Mr. News and

2:09

Analysis. On

2:12

shouldn't embark on as discovered old

2:14

world of waste all around us

2:16

a possibly of opportunities. Things

2:29

are you need more important well as

2:32

part for me on the climate to

2:34

meet our climate goals by twenty four

2:36

be we have to stop forty percent

2:39

of that energy least to this week

2:41

in the climate question we're asking is

2:43

there a way to save money com

2:46

save the planet. Rose.

2:54

Last time we met you did a very

2:56

helpful guide to climate change for us and

2:58

for you Last he said something that really

3:00

stayed with me. He said doubt one of

3:03

the solutions that just doesn't get enough airtime.

3:05

His. Energy Efficiency. And it's something

3:07

that you get quite excited

3:10

about. I haven't really heard

3:12

the words excited and Energy

3:14

Efficiency. Press I'm just going

3:16

to say that you. Getting excited about.

3:18

What I said about as efficiencies. Literally

3:20

the highest praise. Like my energy nerd

3:22

friends said buy me a beer the

3:24

next times the size of each of

3:26

and so are my my name is

3:28

Doctor Ruth I'm a T So and

3:30

under recess director of a think tank

3:32

called Energy for both hub and and

3:34

that work we to connect date and

3:36

evidence to help. Advance policies

3:38

that will end energy poverty, But

3:40

you also work with and energy efficiency

3:43

nonprofit to. Yeah, so classed as

3:45

a global authority on a plane

3:47

sufficiency, how efficient appliances can help

3:49

address the climate challenge. Also can

3:51

improve people's lives your and energy person if

3:54

you are in and I had person. Which

3:56

is why I've got around trying to

3:58

get B B C hosts. I

4:00

did about energy efficiency. It's my job

4:02

description subliminal message to the have as

4:05

well. Let's get into it because for

4:07

many listeners they may vaguely have heard

4:09

of energy efficiency, but the don't really

4:11

know what it is. So basically

4:14

energy efficiency is getting the same amount of

4:16

a service or Andy's with less energy. So

4:18

a classic example that I like to talk

4:20

about in a lot of assistance the people

4:22

let's talk about as the light bulb. Back

4:24

in the day you'd be said to get

4:26

a sixty watt light bulb or one watt

4:28

light bulb and don't fail all the time

4:31

and or often hot because how they produce.

4:33

Is to eat. Electricity

4:35

into heat. And so the L A

4:37

D Lion is a different way of

4:39

creating lighting. You don't have any of

4:42

that wasted energy to heat, and so

4:44

L A D light bulbs are plenty.

4:46

Five percent to ninety percent more energy

4:48

efficiency. So same amount of light for

4:50

less. or instead of talking about one

4:52

hundred watt bulb, that effective equivalent. What?

4:54

It is eight months or less. I'm just

4:56

to bring it back to the time and

4:58

money. If I'm paying for the electricity, my

5:01

money's being wasted. Who's coming out and keep

5:03

that? I didn't want a know and light

5:05

that I did want a model some and

5:07

I had to use more electricity. which is

5:09

probably coming from fossil fuels right? Yeah, Exactly.

5:12

And a lot of people think of

5:14

fighting climate and climate mitigation in terms

5:16

of let's build more renewable energy solar

5:18

plants when from Since we should be

5:20

doing that. More Advanced Energy Efficiency is

5:22

this kind of invisible fuel almost in

5:24

that you could have the equivalent of

5:26

a a solar power plant by just

5:28

taking off some of the energy demand

5:30

that necessitates less. Burning of fossil fuels. But.

5:34

Forty percent. for know we aren't

5:36

purchasing emissions energy efficiency as pissed

5:38

on all energy, but I want

5:40

to focus on electricity. Demand is

5:42

going up worldwide. One of the

5:44

problems as a climate change is

5:46

making places less livable to. for

5:48

instance, there are more heat waves.

5:50

see you need way more air

5:52

conditioning cool which requires more electricity

5:54

which in turn makes more greenhouse

5:56

gas. Peggy

6:00

about this. In India with a fast

6:02

growing economy, it's the third largest user

6:05

of energy in the world, and hardly

6:07

eighty percent of the energy is coming

6:09

from fossil fuels. There's plans for big

6:12

push into renewables are right noise. There's

6:14

a big problem with sequence. I asked

6:16

premium and on Director of Curling at

6:18

the Natural Resources Defense Council about what's

6:21

been happening there and as hot country

6:23

and I'll give you an example from

6:25

the month of income. From

6:28

Obama. audible on par for

6:30

the function of. Maximum consensus ranging

6:32

from fifty degrees celsius to five

6:34

six take themselves as in many

6:36

regions, And that's not just

6:38

an uncomfortable temperature, it's not just

6:41

very hot that's dangerous to life.

6:43

Isn't that when you're getting a

6:45

fast and forty degrees? Absolutely. Cat

6:47

has a huge health risk and

6:50

associated with that it has several

6:52

other risks like can we would

6:54

impact productivity it would impact children's

6:56

education, It would impact efficiency of

6:58

workers and their has rising challenge

7:01

of cooling and providing access to

7:03

quitting the world needs to install

7:05

not an air conditioners every. Second,

7:07

for the next thirty years and a

7:10

third of those are going to be

7:12

installed in India. but that demand is

7:14

that your money to ensure that you

7:16

meet that demand with the best available

7:19

technology. Most energy efficient technology. Since.

7:21

The gigabyte, what three point three air

7:23

conditioners per second and India alone stressing

7:25

me I tight. What are the Indian

7:28

government doing? so in Government has been

7:30

very proactive at it comes to energy

7:32

efficiency initiative under it's Bureau of Energy

7:34

Efficiency. When it comes to appliances the

7:36

been often as you ever since. He

7:38

has been running a very successful program

7:41

called the Standard the Lifting Program that

7:43

subset fundamental. Tussauds level.

7:45

Of how of a cinder these offences

7:47

and to be on all manufacturers need

7:50

to have that label on. The recruitment

7:52

now has really become a common practice

7:54

amongst the consumer who is going to

7:57

buy at air conditioner to look at

7:59

that name. They would

8:01

prefer to buy a three Star Trek

8:03

additional forces or one static additional but

8:05

as far lower to.this of energy efficiency.

8:07

It's all we know. This is that

8:09

the sale of to generate additional has

8:11

been through in Iran, Iraq or from

8:13

that see stop enough money to move

8:15

to fight Started to this know what

8:17

is far more efficient as a consumer

8:19

is able to buy that hi sorry

8:21

conditions for you need some programs incentives

8:23

to help that happen and so many

8:25

What's at stake here would have the

8:27

numbers. Do you know what we've seen

8:29

so far in. Terms. Of Energy Thanks

8:32

to these initiatives. Saw in

8:34

Twenty Twenty One twenty twenty Two

8:36

in the achieved energy savings equivalent.

8:38

To about six percent of country's total

8:41

primary energy supply as a result of

8:43

various energy efficiency schemes and programs across

8:45

the different sectors. in the overall scheme

8:47

of things right now, the effort to

8:50

stop his sword in terms of its

8:52

total energy consumption for the country. but

8:54

we need. To target that equipment given

8:56

that massive growth that it's is likely

8:59

to have in the coming years. So.

9:02

India recognizes by air conditioners could be

9:04

a big energy problem in the future.

9:06

But. What about the rest of the world? Said.

9:09

The International Energy Agency is estimating that

9:11

you know we could double efficiency of

9:13

air conditioners the next decade or two,

9:16

which would. Reduce and city demand

9:18

almost by forty five percent and more

9:20

is possible it's prima touched on these

9:22

more efficient air conditioners costing more. Ruth.

9:25

Is out one of the big

9:27

barriers to people and governments tackling

9:29

all the synergy with Stephanie, a

9:31

big problem was who coast is

9:33

one barrier. But. It doesn't explain

9:35

the lack of air time. As you

9:38

mentioned, the lack of people talk about

9:40

the lack of attention particular within climate

9:42

change. I may have discovered one of

9:44

the other problem so. While.

9:46

I was looking for poker some programs

9:48

by Energy Efficiency to do research for

9:51

This I came across a series of

9:53

it helps people to sleep okay helps

9:55

him to sleep but having someone talking

9:57

about things they think are really boring.

10:01

Oh my goodness, Only

10:03

Edmunds. He was. A

10:08

minimum. Of. Causes a safe as as fuck

10:10

out. Is. A sneak

10:12

up. For

10:14

this route with it's kind of those

10:17

go to the point bird people have

10:19

seen. This is kind of those in

10:21

the past. I mean have you come

10:23

across like work in the space? Is

10:25

this an opinion? Lots of people who'd.

10:28

Ah yes, I think. It's

10:31

a weird one key concept.

10:33

It's like the absence of

10:35

something you know and is often

10:37

framed in terms of this

10:39

like austerity to last have

10:41

less the same people for

10:43

doing things. One thing up and

10:45

really interesting is your point Avoids

10:47

kind of this idea that it's

10:50

all avoid conservation and from doing

10:52

with all it's and unless seems

10:54

to come going to this. Clip.

10:57

Dot. I've scientists who it was. nineteen

10:59

Seventy Four on Us. President Jimmy Carter

11:01

is speaking from the White House's during

11:03

a broadcast to the American people and

11:05

this is during an energy crisis and

11:07

price of oil had spiked and so

11:10

he sat in a big boom and

11:12

cardigan by far. he looks very grandfatherly

11:14

and he's talking to the nation. and

11:16

this is what he said. All.

11:18

Of us. Must. Learn to

11:21

waste less energy since about keeping

11:23

our thermostat, for instance. And sixty

11:25

five degrees in the daytime and

11:27

fifty five degrees at night. We

11:30

could save half the current shortage

11:32

of natural gas. If

11:35

we learn to live thriftily and remember

11:37

the importance of helping our neighbors and

11:39

within find ways to adjust, Was.

11:43

Really interesting that is a sacrifice my

11:45

be as thrifty go with. I see.

11:48

How blessed say! I just love to see

11:50

this place with like. Some. Guy

11:52

who's like bite us Vegas easy route

11:55

you know like around reading sounds unless

11:57

isis completely opposite narrative with excited the

11:59

things that are in the current like

12:01

ice. I. Asked prima

12:03

if energy efficiency had an image problem

12:05

in India. Do ordinary people find it

12:08

boring? Is it even talk to bite

12:10

and then what see would do to

12:12

scenes thought image. Media you

12:14

can be seen Her they have

12:16

to face it sounds cooler if

12:18

you voters. Yes really bad. The

12:20

energy efficiency I would like to

12:22

see this was something also Doesn't

12:25

it Death has some superstars talk

12:27

about energy efficiency to make it

12:29

look cooler. So. How

12:31

do these deposits relax

12:33

or lives? census? Present.

12:36

My one degree or degree is a good numbers around

12:38

as in. Tennessee by been degree.

12:42

Of courage than I did. Feel

12:45

Rule of Energy efficiency Conserving

12:48

energy empowering. India. Could.

12:51

We get. Big. Bollywood.

12:53

Film Blockbuster all a bite sized star.

12:55

Air conditioners. Isn't that Allen's We should

12:57

take up Priebus. I like the sound

12:59

of it for sure. is. What?

13:03

Would you do Rose? Yet so I

13:05

think one implicit assumption in this

13:07

idea of how can we make

13:09

it more a sexy is falling

13:11

back to the old approach as

13:13

with a succeeding on what individuals

13:15

can do right? And so how

13:17

can we make the sexy so

13:19

people make different choices? I would.

13:22

Prefer to change things

13:24

structurally. Said. Policymakers.

13:26

And the regulators and the company's

13:29

thera the ones that can make

13:31

these kind of fixes that will

13:33

slow down to what consumers are

13:35

have available and market in a

13:38

way that the onus is not

13:40

on them to tide is be

13:42

pieced makers are the identifiers. This.

13:45

Is the climate Question from the

13:48

Bbc World Service? I'm Jordan

13:50

Dunbar. Returns

13:52

Like Gamma has been dealing with

13:55

energy efficiency for decades Coffee and

13:57

Jaco is the Director of Renewables

13:59

and Officials. The of the

14:01

Guy energy Commission and he

14:03

told me the country have

14:06

a big problem with wistful

14:08

appliances. Prior to two thousand

14:11

and five the months it

14:13

was inundated with second hand

14:15

appliances imported from Europe and

14:18

elsewhere. And as a

14:20

result, Close. To thirty

14:22

percent of the analog and

14:24

digital said rooted in their

14:26

country went to with. Because.

14:29

Of the use of. Secondhand:

14:31

Apply as is Now where energy in

14:34

that sense or it's I code as

14:36

soon be Apply as is. Nice

14:46

Zombie appliances were actually

14:48

energy Gazidis. So

14:50

it's brought about. What I

14:53

tim imported prove it. Because.

14:56

Of their clothes on Sam

14:59

costs and meant and as

15:01

cars coming together actually impoverished.

15:03

Consumers. Of these Zombie

15:06

appliances. Because people are spending their

15:08

money on both repairing the on I'm sure they

15:10

broke down more of their old by the time

15:12

they arrived to you and then also does panel

15:14

for electricity bill which means the can spend on

15:17

other things so. And. If.

15:19

You look at it from another

15:21

angle. Then. He. Also,

15:23

realize that it puts pressure on

15:26

the economy of gonna. To.

15:28

Keep increasing. Didn't listen to

15:30

faceted. To be able

15:33

to meet the ever growing

15:35

demand for electricity. So.

15:38

Went back to the

15:40

drawing table and decided

15:42

on how to seal

15:45

day importation of the

15:47

zooms. And. Says

15:49

hour span bats to

15:52

ensure that no cooling

15:54

apply as that's. Does.

15:57

not meet the minimum standards

15:59

set will be allowed entry

16:01

into Ghana. We started

16:03

with three appliances, refrigerator,

16:06

air conditioner and lighting.

16:09

But as you speak, we have

16:11

a total of 19 appliances that

16:14

have come under the appliance

16:17

standards and labeling regime in

16:19

Ghana. Before the standards, the

16:23

average refrigerator in Ghana

16:25

was consuming 1,200 kilowatt hours. But

16:31

with the introduction of the standards, now

16:34

the average refrigerator in

16:36

Ghana is consuming around

16:38

350 kilowatt hours.

16:41

Consumers are saving around $80 in

16:43

a year. And

16:46

after all of these standards have come

16:48

in and people are buying their three

16:51

to five star and now possibly seven

16:53

star fridges, what are the savings? What

16:55

has it done for Ghana? My

16:58

last check in 2022, we had saved

17:00

583 gigawatt hours just by

17:03

implementing energy efficiency. Cumulatively,

17:13

let me say this here

17:15

that we have our last

17:17

hydro dam which

17:20

is producing annually

17:23

around 1,000 gigawatt hours. So by saving 583

17:26

gigawatt hours, it starts

17:28

to reason that we have money

17:35

to save more than half

17:38

the output of that small

17:40

dam called Bui. And

17:42

it is also instructive to know that

17:45

we spent in excess of $600 million in

17:47

building that dam. So

17:53

If all of the appliances had remained as zombies,

17:55

then you might have had to build another dam

17:57

which would have cost you $600 million. Or

18:00

even half Adama. Three hundred million dollars which is

18:02

lot of money. If we have

18:04

not done anything at all,

18:06

I know the business as

18:09

usual. Mood. Us builds.

18:11

More. Fossil fired

18:14

plants because we have hit our

18:16

with and as far as hide

18:18

route is consent. We. Have

18:20

utilize almost or there is also

18:22

that we have to end. It

18:24

suits as as spies in India

18:26

and reason is as bases in

18:28

terms of enviroment and running costs.

18:30

So this all sounds like a

18:32

big win for consumers for business

18:34

for demands for the national upgrade

18:36

your electricity grid height of people

18:39

think of energy efficiency and Gama

18:41

because of it's like the people

18:43

all over the world and it

18:45

as a bit of an image

18:47

problem and other places it's not

18:49

seen as. Sexier, interesting,

18:51

are exciting, The.

18:53

Of knowledge. I mean, May

18:56

not be too much

18:58

concerned about the environment.

19:01

By. What I can say for sure. Is

19:03

that he is very happy

19:06

that he. Is not spend

19:08

him as much as he used to

19:10

spend. On. What about you coffee?

19:12

Are you a man who practices what he preaches?

19:14

If we went to do your house for the

19:17

be any zombies. I. Was. Hoping.

19:19

My doors to. At.

19:22

Doubting Thomas. Yes,

19:24

I brought him to my has. So.

19:27

He saw my air conditioner. Is.

19:29

All my television. My. Dumbledore

19:32

phrase. My. A double

19:34

lead to see their their blend

19:36

bad day of my blue move

19:39

in and or that. And

19:41

then I showed him. My

19:43

bill. And his jaw

19:45

dropped us as. A

19:48

supporter of a blender of an energy efficient

19:50

planet earth as the up at the. Same

19:54

reason as. okay

19:56

that was coffee a darker from energy commission

19:58

and garments is obviously and. Yeah, steak,

20:00

but what about ordinary people there. Here's.

20:03

The Bbc is own Thomas now

20:05

they tell me where you are

20:07

right Nice Hamas what other moment

20:09

I'm funny near an electronic saw

20:12

located along said see. this creates

20:14

indifferent or business district of the

20:16

topics A from I'm wondering are

20:18

these people going and lot of

20:20

the shop or any of them

20:22

thinking about energy efficiency.a better interesting

20:25

question for most of these acts

20:27

up for my what matters to

20:29

them if affordability. What your money

20:31

can fight off the for. They

20:33

look out for not necessarily the energy

20:35

efficiency of electronic gadgets. Us off with

20:38

a customer africa him at the shop

20:40

and let's take a listen to what

20:42

he had to says. What?

20:45

Do you look out for we are

20:47

buying an interesting that it was real

20:49

full is a bronze and the item

20:52

and sometimes your some point see that

20:54

is the price difference of is now

20:56

we are buying a funny guy to

20:59

do look out for the wonder consumes

21:01

less energy returns nothing else comes to

21:03

mind before. And I

21:05

spoke with other of them have

21:07

as well we are buying on

21:10

enough on it's as if the

21:12

anomaly season is over his image

21:14

efficiency. This one I and others

21:16

software this nitric oxide is our

21:18

schools are easily sell them I

21:20

want to. the ones with the

21:22

new and as movie with is

21:24

sooo see also explain to me

21:26

sadder Marseilles the more energy efficient

21:29

as his suit otherwise I grew

21:31

from. and for

21:33

most people would sort of my energy

21:35

efficiency but did know about it i

21:37

guess it's about saving money and no

21:39

one's really mentioning air pollution or the

21:42

climate it's much more by electricity bills

21:44

not are you talk about fly mates

21:46

or what they know is that we

21:48

use energy efficient equipment it's reduces your

21:50

electricity bill of what i'm dot it's

21:52

very significant because nobody wants to paypal

21:55

and thomas whatever your fridge did you

21:57

think by energy efficiency when you were

21:59

get months ago I think of energy

22:01

efficiency when I'm getting speech. That also

22:03

has implications for the electricity bills that

22:06

I pay and with some of the

22:08

customers. Absolutely. So when you

22:10

are buying electronic gadgets and for myself when I'm

22:12

buying an electronic gadget, I try to look at

22:14

how energy efficient it is because the

22:16

utility bills are quite expensive in this country.

22:18

I don't want to get into a situation

22:20

where I have mounting bills and I cannot

22:22

pay. Very good, Thomas.

22:25

Thank you so much for going into the shops and

22:27

speaking to the Ghanaians for us. I'll let you go

22:29

back to your energy efficient fridge. All

22:32

right, thank you very much. Pretty

22:36

clear in Ghana that people are keen to

22:38

save money and the climate benefit isn't their

22:41

priority. Rose,

22:44

one thing that comes up in the

22:46

climate question constantly is where

22:48

does the line lie between

22:51

individual responsibility and government responsibility?

22:54

Who should be doing more in this area? Those

22:56

groups, and I would add industry,

22:58

so government, industry and everyday people

23:00

to make it more of

23:02

a triad. All of these people

23:05

need to be doing stuff,

23:07

investments in innovation that governments can

23:09

support, inspire and enable, and

23:12

then what governments can require in

23:14

terms of what products are available

23:16

in their jurisdiction. That's like what we heard

23:18

about in Ghana. Like in Ghana,

23:20

I think the government can really

23:22

set the goalposts entirely. And

23:25

then industries innovate to meet

23:27

the standards. And so when you're buying

23:30

your bulb or your TV or your

23:32

fridge or whatever, that has been filtered

23:35

through those first two screens.

23:38

And then at that point, because you have

23:40

to give consumers a choice, government and industry

23:42

cannot agree on just one product,

23:45

one appliance, one version. So there needs to

23:47

be a choice. So how do we stop

23:50

these mandates then becoming a lack of

23:52

individual freedoms? Is there an

23:54

argument that actually if I want to have this

23:57

light bulb that doesn't work very well, I should be

23:59

able to? Is there a danger of

24:01

people feeling like, you know, you're

24:03

telling me what to do and you're telling me what to buy? Oh,

24:06

gosh, this is like taking me back to

24:08

the light bulb wars of the of

24:11

the twenty teens when the Obama administration

24:13

tried to phase out incandescent light bulbs. And they faced

24:15

a lot of pushback. I

24:17

introduce the Light Bulb Freedom

24:20

of Choice Act. I

24:24

am so proud of that bill.

24:26

I introduce it after the two

24:28

thousand seven energy act. Let

24:30

me tell you, President Bachman will allow

24:32

you to buy any light bulb you

24:35

want in the United States of America.

24:39

You know what? In civic

24:41

life, they are trade offs, right? And

24:43

so that's why you want to have

24:45

this kind of a sweet spot for

24:47

standards and regulations where you want to

24:49

have an ambitious floor. But you

24:51

want to have some flexibility. So that

24:53

sweet spot is that give people choice,

24:55

but gradually phase out the stuff that

24:57

is low performing. So these

25:00

standards are not they're not developed in

25:02

this black and white dictatorial way. And

25:05

then they evolve with time as

25:07

like product markets change, individual preference

25:09

change and things become normalized. Do

25:11

we have to be careful, though, while we're

25:13

making these standards that we aren't just making

25:16

things more expensive for people? Is that a

25:18

big consideration? And I think that's where

25:20

like for any new technology, any new advance,

25:22

any new way of doing things, there's kind

25:25

of a technology cost curve. Right. And often

25:27

the higher quality stuff costs more up front

25:29

now that is going to change in the

25:32

future. I think this is where in the

25:34

spirit of urgency, both from not just from

25:36

a climate perspective, but just to help people

25:38

save money and reduce their energy costs.

25:40

I think that the government has a strong

25:43

interest to help make it possible for

25:45

especially lower income households to

25:47

have access to just the better stuff. OK,

25:49

just to come back to our question, can we

25:51

see of money and save the planet for people

25:53

listening at home? What bits of advice would you

25:55

have for them? Embrace a high

25:58

quality, decent standard of. leaving with

26:00

all of the services and appliances that

26:02

make your modern life possible. Your computers,

26:04

whatever, do all of that, but just

26:06

be mindful and less wasteful and apply

26:09

this as a principle across your entire life.

26:12

Before you buy your

26:14

next TV, fridge, washing

26:16

machine, dryer, laptop, screen,

26:19

computer monitor, whatever

26:21

it is, look at the energy

26:23

label and try to buy the

26:26

highest rated product as far

26:28

into the green as you can in your

26:30

budget. Just try and make

26:33

that part of your practice. Just

26:35

be a more thoughtful consumer. So

26:40

can we save money and save the

26:42

planet? Well, like so much else, it

26:44

comes down to cost, both for people

26:46

and governments. But what's clear

26:48

is that by ignoring energy efficiency, we

26:50

aren't talking about or considering a solution

26:53

that the energy experts, the IEA, say

26:55

we need in order to cut nearly

26:57

40% of carbon emissions

26:59

by 2040. We

27:01

are going to require even more energy

27:03

as the world gets warmer. So

27:06

we have to stop wasting the energy we have.

27:09

This has been so much fun, Jordan, and

27:11

I'll just leave you with this thought. So

27:13

when you inevitably win the Pulitzer for stellar

27:16

coverage on energy efficiency, I hope you

27:18

will remember me in your acceptance speech

27:20

and kind of give me a little bit of

27:22

a heads up alongside God and your family and

27:25

all the usual suspects. In the unlikely

27:27

event we win that international journalism prize,

27:29

Dr. Rose Matisseau, I absolutely will. Thank

27:32

you very much for coming in today. All right. Thank

27:34

you. This has been a lot of fun. Well,

27:38

I'd like to accept this award for

27:40

a more interesting program by energy efficiency

27:42

than many would expect. And

27:45

I'd like to thank Dr. Rose Matisseau. And

27:47

my team for all their hard work.

27:50

Producer Ben Cooper. Series producer

27:52

Simon Watts. And the mix by

27:54

Tom Birggeville. Thank you.

28:05

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28:10

Because I see where The same

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suit for fine dining it and

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kayaking. Total. So Paw and I

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need something casual for the rollercoaster.

28:18

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waterside release looks like you're. Worked

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her to Tampa Bay just turned into

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modern hotels and easy. Visitors.