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1:23

hello listeners. It's Graea Jackson and

1:26

Simon Tullet from the BBC World

1:28

Services flagship show on our warming

1:30

world. On the climate question,

1:33

we ask why we find it so

1:35

hard to save our planet and

1:37

what we can do about it. Simon, it

1:40

is so lovely to have you back on the

1:42

show. It's been such a long time. Yeah.

1:45

Hi, Graea. Right back at you. Lovely to

1:47

be back with you. It has been a while. Yeah.

1:50

This was the show from 2023 and we

1:53

were kind of trying to work out whether

1:55

this lab grown meat so called cultivated meats

1:57

were better for the climate, better for the

1:59

environment. for the environment and conventional

2:02

meat, weren't we? And there have been lots

2:04

of updates that have happened since then. So

2:06

we thought we would rerun the show and

2:08

then Simon and I can bring you up

2:10

to speed. Does that sound like a plan,

2:13

Simon? So good. All right. Here's the program.

2:21

Let's get to the good part. The

2:24

world's first lab grown cultured beef burger has

2:27

been cooked in Eton at an event in

2:29

London. Oh, here we go. This was what

2:31

I was looking for. The burger cost some

2:33

£200,000 to develop

2:35

and was made by using stem cells

2:37

taken from a dead cow. But

2:40

that was in 2013 and the makers

2:42

of this lab grown burger had high hopes.

2:45

Just listen to this clip of Professor

2:47

Mark Post at Maastricht University in the

2:49

Netherlands talking to the BBC at the

2:51

time. The way we produce meat

2:53

right now through livestock is not sustainable.

2:55

It's not good for the environment. It's

2:57

not good for animals. And we actually

3:00

are not going to produce enough to

3:02

meet the world's demand. So this is

3:04

one of the alternatives and might be

3:06

actually the alternative. Might

3:08

actually be the alternative.

3:10

The alternative. Some

3:13

say lab grown or cultivated meat

3:15

will never fulfill its promises. And

3:18

surprisingly, even the boss of one of

3:20

the world's biggest lab grown meat companies

3:22

has his doubts about whether it can

3:24

ever scale up. It's not straightforward.

3:26

It's complicated. It's not guaranteed.

3:29

See what I mean? 10 years

3:31

on since the first lab grown burger,

3:33

we're going to be investigating if lab

3:36

grown meat is actually better for the

3:38

climate and ask, will it ever take

3:40

off? This

3:42

is the climate question from the BBC

3:44

World Service. And I'm Greg Jackson. As

3:55

it stands today, there's only one country in

3:58

the world that sells lab grown meat. and

4:00

you can only get it in one

4:02

restaurant and curiously only on Thursdays. And

4:05

there's only about I think a dozen

4:07

slots at a time so we're talking

4:09

a really limited experience. And

4:12

you've been and enjoyed that limited

4:14

experience. I know I sacrificed myself

4:16

for the sake of journalism. Tough

4:19

job yeah. Let

4:22

me introduce you to Nick Marsh he's

4:24

the BBC's Asia Business Correspondent. So

4:28

I am at a typical hawker

4:30

centre in central Singapore. And

4:32

if you don't know what a hawker centre is, I

4:35

think the best way to describe it is like

4:37

an open air food court. There's

4:39

about I don't know 20 different food

4:42

stalls and they each offer their own

4:44

typical dish or cuisine. I

4:46

mean it might smell amazing where you are

4:48

if there's all these hawker shops around you.

4:51

Well it's good job I've had my lunch because otherwise I'd be

4:53

getting pretty hungry. I

4:56

can smell the enigmatically named big prawn noodle.

4:58

That's the stall that's closest to me. There's

5:01

a kind of Indian style curry rice

5:03

stall which is not far away. So

5:08

any sign of the lab grown chicken where

5:10

you are now? No

5:12

definitely not. The

5:15

chicken here is very much of a

5:17

conventional kind. So the scale

5:19

of cultivated chicken in Singapore at the moment

5:22

just to put things into context. The

5:24

scale is tiny. A

5:26

couple of kilos a week to be precise

5:28

about the size of a small chicken. So

5:31

that explains why a dozen or so

5:33

people can eat it and only on

5:36

Thursday. Chicken is the

5:38

only cultivated meat on the menu

5:40

but it's not the only one

5:43

scientists are growing. There's beef as

5:45

we heard but there's also pork,

5:47

duck, lamb, seafood and more.

5:49

Around 100 different startups around

5:52

the world are on the

5:54

case. And yet Singapore is

5:56

the only country which has

5:58

approved its sale. I wanted to

6:00

know why. Well,

6:02

Singapore has a real obsession with

6:04

food security. And in

6:07

fact, 90% of everything that

6:09

is eaten in Singapore is

6:12

imported. I think COVID

6:14

was a big wake up call when supply chains

6:16

were disrupted. There was also

6:18

an incident last year when Malaysia stopped

6:20

exporting its chicken. The

6:22

Singapore, that's 30% of the

6:24

chicken supply. So the government

6:27

has been very open about the

6:29

fact that technology that they're looking

6:31

to back, they've given tax incentives,

6:33

they've provided subsidies, they've

6:35

provided land companies to develop here

6:37

in Singapore. So this is a

6:39

real long-term kind of plan. And

6:41

that's really typical of the way

6:43

the Singaporean government works. Okay,

6:46

that makes sense. Meanwhile,

6:50

across the Pacific Ocean, the US

6:52

deemed another brand of cultivated chicken

6:54

safety late last year, but no

6:56

permits have been granted to sell

6:59

it yet. In Italy,

7:01

the government there is hoping to ban

7:03

it. Officials say they want

7:05

to protect the country's food heritage.

7:09

Many regulators, though, haven't kept pace

7:11

with the science, and there's not

7:13

a classification for lab-grown meat. And

7:16

without that, it's going to be hard

7:18

for biotech companies to get their products

7:21

on people's plates. We see

7:23

this as more of an opportunity, I think, in a

7:25

lot of ways. It'd be like a challenge. Definitely

7:29

that. Meat has

7:31

named Carodia, co-founder of Mzansi Meat

7:33

in South Africa. We're

7:36

based in Cape Town, and we're Africa's first

7:38

cultivated meat company. For those that don't know,

7:40

cultivated meat is essentially replicating the same process

7:43

you'd find inside of a cow, outside of

7:45

the cow, and we take

7:47

some cells from an animal. And

7:49

just so you know, the animal's still up and running afterwards.

7:52

It's usually quite a small biopsy.

7:55

The size of a peppercorn you lift with some

7:57

muscles, some fat. When you bring it back

7:59

to the lab... If you give it the

8:01

right nutrients, put it at the right

8:03

temperature, the cells stay alive. Growing

8:05

a cow but not inside a

8:08

cow, I'm quite struck by that

8:10

statement. I'm thinking Petri dishes with

8:13

little pink blobs that are growing at

8:15

various stages. Would that be sort of

8:17

like an accurate visual image of what's

8:19

going on with what you do? There's

8:21

different aspects of that that we do

8:23

have in our lab. There's

8:25

a lot of flasks and

8:28

bar reactors and lab coats.

8:31

Long term, the way you can, you

8:33

could visualize it is a brewery. And

8:36

what about the role of

8:38

climate here? The beef patties

8:40

and the beef meatballs that

8:43

you're culturing, are they

8:45

better for the climate than the beef patties

8:47

and the meatballs that I could buy in

8:49

the supermarket? I think, yes, to

8:51

quantify this is quite difficult because we're still

8:53

at early phases of the technology. From the

8:56

inputs going in and the calories that you're

8:58

able to come out, I think you're definitely

9:00

sitting in a better position for sure.

9:03

Those sorts of sentiments have been echoed by

9:05

many in the industry. 97%

9:12

less greenhouse gas emissions, 39% less energy. Lab

9:17

grown meat is better for the planet

9:19

and government should get involved. 90%

9:21

less influence on land use, 96% less water. Out

9:28

of the lab and into the frying

9:30

pan, making cultivated meat a $25

9:32

billion global industry by 2030. I

9:36

just urge a bit of

9:39

caution in taking some of the grander

9:41

claims about how cultured meat is

9:43

going to save the world at face value. This

9:46

is John Lynch, a postdoctoral research associate

9:48

at the University of Oxford in the

9:50

UK. He was actually the

9:52

first to sit down and crunch the available

9:54

data on how green lab grown meat is.

9:57

And he published it in a scientific journal

9:59

back in... And he nineteen. Through.

10:01

Definitely has the potential and we

10:03

can see why. It could be

10:05

better for the climate and environment,

10:07

but I would ask consumers and other

10:10

researchers to just dig a little

10:12

bit into the data and make

10:14

sure that kind of verified and

10:16

realistic. I

10:23

think it wise to understand the

10:25

role of animal agriculture in the

10:27

climate crisis. Now, the rearing of

10:29

animals in lots of places in

10:31

the world is done on sustainably

10:33

responsible for around fifteen percent of

10:35

the world's planet warming. Gases or

10:37

not, we more than seeing. How

10:40

he may be wondering? does eating

10:42

a nice steak or chicken bag

10:44

and schools the climate to change?

10:47

Well actually it's lots of ways

10:49

from putting down for us to

10:51

make space. The past set making

10:53

animal food and callbacks. All these

10:55

calls planet warming gases to leak

10:57

into the sky and the main

11:00

culprits are carbon dioxide, methane and

11:02

nitric oxide. Let's. Look

11:04

at night just oxides first which

11:06

is released from and yes and

11:08

when crops animal feed a satellite.

11:11

So from our current understanding, it

11:13

would definitely a pivot. Nitric oxide

11:15

is gonna be associated with livestock

11:17

production and probably not significantly and

11:19

agree meat production. Although there is

11:22

a wrinkle here in the lab,

11:24

grown meat is gonna require some

11:26

kind of nutrient inputs to convert

11:28

to that meet. John's.

11:30

Referring to something called a medium,

11:32

it's basically the fluid that the

11:35

meat cells or amassed and and

11:37

it contains all the nutrients that

11:39

a cell needs to grow. That.

11:41

Will probably be a form of crop

11:43

production, and you may have to fertilize

11:46

those crooks so it may not be

11:48

that it will entirely divorce itself for

11:50

birth or just tried emissions associated with

11:52

it, but from a pool. The indications

11:55

we have of the production process is

11:57

so far is forty going to be.

12:00

And from conventional agriculture and

12:02

livestock. This.

12:05

Is more complicated than I

12:07

think I realized Felicity carrying

12:09

a lot about me say.

12:11

I say this one is actually

12:14

fairly straightforward in that. Me:

12:16

Same his last from Thousand Seats

12:18

prepping it out. Whereas with cultured

12:20

meat production as far as I

12:22

know from any of the processes,

12:24

there isn't a kind of methane

12:27

source associated with the production itself.

12:29

Okay, what about see a

12:32

t Carbon dioxide the main

12:34

planet warming? Guess that we

12:36

all worry about. Well I'm

12:38

unfortunately another the attitude quite a simple

12:40

announced because it is still going to

12:42

come down to the efficiency of the

12:44

cultured meat production process if that cultured

12:47

meat production is really efficient and you

12:49

don't actually have to use much energy

12:51

to get your talk to me Tokyo

12:53

and than that may still be superior

12:55

for the climate even if we are

12:57

still getting our energy from burning fossil

12:59

fuels. But if the cultured meat production

13:01

comes in at the higher and those

13:04

estimates so you need to have a

13:06

lot of energy's they're not surrender. Your

13:08

actually kind of making a bad trade

13:10

for doing that. substitution of livestock emissions

13:12

or cultured meat emissions. Okay,

13:16

say this is all about how

13:18

energy efficient laps can get and

13:21

making cultured meat. And that's especially

13:23

important because still most electricity is

13:25

generated by burning fossil fuels. This.

13:28

Causes vast amounts of carbon dioxide

13:30

to be released into the sky.

13:33

It's a huge try that is

13:35

climate. Change. But

13:37

it's not necessarily about the amount

13:39

of c. O Two emissions, the

13:41

tonnage so to speak. As

13:45

impacts. The climate differently. and

13:47

then Wayne. Essentially

13:49

some of the greenhouse gases we

13:51

talking about half of pollutants. They

13:54

have a big impact that eighth

13:56

grade quite quickly. Others stick

13:58

around in the atmosphere for. Long long

14:00

time but they warming effect may

14:03

be smaller. So.

14:05

It's not just about how much

14:07

if each of these gases we

14:10

put into the sky, but the

14:12

bering effects they have on changing

14:14

the temperature. Though. Nitric

14:16

oxide and methane released. By

14:18

livestock, me cause a lot more warming

14:21

than carbon. Dioxide. When.

14:23

You look at it over the

14:25

long term. The carbon dioxide released from

14:27

lamps is more damaging to the

14:29

climate that's according to June because it

14:31

takes a long time to the

14:33

great. Guess.

14:37

Is that one catalysis? The other thing

14:39

we really to look out here is

14:41

land use. Yes were present to reduce

14:43

the number of livestock. The Free A plan for

14:45

equal to the recovery. Laps.

14:48

Needs less land. The livestock say

14:50

postures could be given back to

14:52

nature of the trees to grow

14:55

and those trees with drawdown carbon

14:57

dioxide. They put climate change in

14:59

reverse butts and there's always about.

15:02

With John decider news that land for

15:04

livestock farming does it actually get left

15:06

for ecological recovery? School doesn't address the

15:09

children and build houses on it or

15:11

does it turn into a golf course?

15:13

Or her for about three. Yeah

15:16

on the other thing that Jones

15:18

already mentioned is that cultivated meets

15:20

a grown in this nutritious liquid,

15:22

the median and those nutrients still

15:24

need. To be grown somewhere. And

15:26

is actually in a be that much

15:28

more efficient than last or production that

15:30

will determine whether or not cultured meat

15:32

is going to free up plots of

15:35

land or not. So. I

15:37

think we can say it's not clear

15:39

whether lab grown meat is better for

15:41

the climate or not. There are so

15:44

many companies making meet, each with their

15:46

own process and their own energy supply

15:48

which means every brand of cultivated meat

15:51

or have a different environmental. Footprint.

15:54

I think there's too many on baron

15:56

surveys for Selena one farther than other

15:58

sport form his locker. The gonna

16:00

take, how efficient is it gonna

16:02

be? What are the decent librarian

16:05

products gonna end up being? And

16:07

I'd really kind of asked consumers

16:09

and the be environmentally concerned among

16:11

us to pressure real data to

16:13

actually address these questions. And

16:17

I'm going to be annoying hair and

16:19

add one more coffee at it Also

16:22

depends on which meets we're comparing because

16:24

some mates have less of an impact

16:26

on the climate than others. Beef.

16:29

Is the last for the climate Chicken is one

16:31

of the best to me. Tell

16:33

me much less of a climate game

16:36

if we're comparing cultivated chickens. with

16:38

conventional second. So.

16:42

His lab grown meat. Best of for the climate.

16:44

Think to bench know. We might

16:46

not know the answer to this climate

16:48

questions until mass production is happening. So.

16:51

That means people silly have to one

16:53

sixty six. So how does it taste

16:55

to be disease knit moss. Went to

16:58

the world's only restaurant dishing up cultivated

17:00

meet. It's made by us than could

17:02

eat us and it sat in. see

17:05

this. Hi!

17:09

How. Are

17:12

we the sized slice chicken

17:14

strips place on. The

17:17

edges of the strips of B

17:19

C Freud so it's kind of

17:21

golden brown color. Basically like French.

17:24

Really, I'm just gonna. Come.

17:28

On. Fools of House.

17:40

See this. Coming

17:48

this is no way that you would

17:50

know where it's com. Make

17:54

it sounds like he really enjoys a

17:56

thing that. Causes. Ticket? Yeah

17:59

Ice. The I made my

18:01

day when pretty tasty. And

18:03

soothing there other diners when he went

18:05

there. C T managed to talk to

18:08

any salmon and see what. Phone

18:10

calls yet it were free happy

18:12

actually I think the older for

18:14

the same reason for the novelty

18:17

factor but on the whole effort

18:19

farmer trying it seems really like

18:21

to. Meet.

18:25

The perfect really few eat

18:27

meat normally. Not

18:30

so much for about be one

18:32

for week, but I prefer to

18:34

avoid because of the sun abilities.

18:37

Is embedded and she's quite good I said.

18:39

I'm actually surprised how Well as Doesn't Resemble

18:42

Room You that she falls apart for been

18:44

similarly in the most part of the Cooper

18:46

who sued by this cook at home. that

18:49

kind of thing My but again loathing of

18:51

my good on the price. A circus. I

18:53

don't. I like thing I may have this perception is liberal

18:55

meat and might be a bit more expensive. Equipment

18:59

people. It pretty positive on

19:01

the whole about this series so

19:04

far. see things this could spread

19:06

in Nepal with the hookers around

19:09

Cp interested in selling it. It

19:12

all depends on how cheaply they can

19:14

buy it Actually managed to speak to

19:16

the chief executive of it's just just.

19:22

So. Ultimately, we want to have facilities

19:24

where you have ten, two hundred fifty

19:27

thousand later vessels making forty fifty million

19:29

pounds a year and not just one

19:31

facility, but hundreds of them all around

19:34

the world. the ability to scale up

19:36

from smaller vessels, the larger vocals that

19:38

is both an engineer technical challenge and

19:41

also a capital challenge Because it's hundreds

19:43

of millions of dollars of me, billions

19:45

of dollars to build many of these

19:47

facilities it's not straight for is complicated,

19:50

it's not guaranteed and but the other

19:52

option. For us is not to do

19:54

anything so we decide take about know

19:57

for. So. You admit this mana work

19:59

out. For. And when

20:01

we define work out work out

20:03

is really will we and other

20:05

companies be able to make. Billions.

20:08

Of pounds of real me without the

20:10

need to slaughter an animal. Below

20:13

the cost of conventional chicken, beef,

20:15

and pork in the next decade

20:17

or so, and that is far

20:19

from certain. Skiing

20:26

or will be key to bringing

20:28

down costs and price is one

20:30

of the biggest influences. On

20:32

consumers. To

20:35

speed with to produce enough food to

20:37

meets. Seuss isn't say

20:39

saw it as mean com idea

20:41

in South Africa is. In

20:44

two years will be a price Parties

20:46

That's what we're aiming force. Do you

20:48

think you'll ever be able to get

20:50

it cheaper? I as I'll be an

20:52

unpopular opinion on this. I think that's

20:54

the answer is yes, But that's also

20:56

because the custom meat is going up

20:58

and I think it's unsustainable for meat

21:00

to be the price that it is.

21:02

And sir, I really think the true

21:04

cost of meat is higher than what

21:06

it actually is, so probably get these

21:08

sooner. Agriculture's had thousands of years to

21:10

get to way it is. Now where

21:12

anything is in. This isn't. The a world

21:14

in which we get the in get cheaper, but there's a

21:17

lot of factors at play to get. The bank are confident

21:19

that we can. Confident. On

21:21

price. but price isn't the only

21:23

barrier hair the other big factor

21:26

one that these companies have less

21:28

control labor. Is whether people

21:30

want to even try it. Now

21:32

There is some evidence to suggest

21:34

they do, but is that enough

21:36

to disrupt conventional livestock farming? Does.

21:38

Not one on, sir, but I

21:40

do think that conventional meet will

21:42

not be the predominant source of

21:44

protein long term, but the time

21:46

frame is probably something that is

21:49

unknown. Yes, Some expects that

21:51

meat consumption will go up by another

21:53

seventy three percent by the middle of

21:55

the century. One option we

21:57

haven't talked about. Eating less

21:59

meat. As. Oxford

22:01

researcher John Lynch again. It's

22:04

not the told should meet per

22:06

se which is like actively good

22:08

for the climate. It's just that

22:10

if you eat less meat than

22:12

most, less emissions or less land

22:14

is associated with that, say the

22:16

excitement around Culture Beat is that

22:19

gonna be an easier way for

22:21

people's transitioned to having less conventional

22:23

meet in their diet. But we

22:25

shouldn't forget the to There are

22:27

ready alternatives and adjustments to our

22:29

diets recent make when our housemates

22:31

come along. so it's isn't that.

22:33

Is both pulses in like teams and

22:36

get some of your proceed from there

22:38

sir. It's actually reducing the meat rather

22:40

than the cultured elements for sister and

22:42

is climate and a set. Me

22:51

it's a really contentious issue in

22:54

so many ways isn't s Some

22:56

people are series see malnourish and

22:58

don't get enough protein in their

23:00

diet. For others it's the truth

23:03

will set meet his of inside

23:05

out in identity and culture and

23:07

they're often these huge celebration says

23:10

center around eating meat and so

23:12

as a result many a reluctant

23:14

to give up and understandably fit

23:17

not does have a costs a

23:19

cost to the climate. Kids.

23:22

Cultured meat counter that cost. I

23:24

think it's too early to say

23:27

a much about will be determined

23:29

by Sachs is the on D

23:31

C Tech Companies control. If

23:33

we want to reduce our carbon

23:35

footprints, the easiest way, as John

23:37

says is. Simon.

23:46

Sheila and granted Jackson uncle

23:48

back with you and you

23:50

know since then what has

23:53

happened Simon so is it

23:55

only available in one restaurant

23:57

on Thursday? Still. And this was

23:59

Poobah! I

24:04

don't see that on the menu anymore

24:06

but where it has popped up is

24:08

he was also has through a butcher's

24:11

next to the restaurants and where people

24:13

can pick up stuff to take away

24:15

in cook at home and good meat

24:17

chicken does appear to be available there.

24:19

That seems to be where they've moved

24:21

things and I guess that's pretty phone

24:23

make. I am one of the ways

24:25

that lab grown meat might take off

24:27

his if people can cook at home.

24:29

Foods. And I read that

24:31

other places has begun sort

24:33

of approving cultivated meet to

24:36

sail like Israel. Yes of

24:38

Israel's one of the latest countries

24:40

do the so. In January twenty

24:42

twenty four and Israeli company called

24:44

Alice Foams got permission those from

24:46

the Israeli Health Ministry to sell

24:48

what is as is the world's

24:50

first lab grown or cultivated face

24:52

product regulator. Still need to do

24:54

some final checks on the product.

24:56

Miss gonna come from? Okay only

24:58

thing that's gonna be states but

25:00

the expectation is that those could

25:02

be on diners plates later this

25:04

year. That's quite soon isn't that

25:06

I've been looking at once. Hein has

25:08

been doing and they set up a

25:10

large scale pilot Sex or a friend

25:13

by start at could sell acts in

25:15

Shanghai. Bleeds be the first in the

25:17

country and may want to be selling

25:19

products in twenty twenty size in places

25:22

that we've been talking about Singapore us.

25:24

The other thing that's really striking is

25:26

this the first time China has thirds

25:28

and not grain meet into its size

25:30

year agricultural plan and that's important because

25:33

when things go into they sorts. Of

25:35

plans they mean business. a usually becoming

25:37

reality that I also noted there was

25:40

some stuff going on in the Us.

25:42

I mean, last time we spoke in

25:44

this program, they had approved it, but

25:46

no one was really selling at. yeah,

25:49

is that right? Yes quite a

25:51

lot's happened in the Us as

25:53

they so not long after all

25:55

show aired capella companies with given

25:57

permission to actually sell to costs.

26:00

I know how a look in.

26:02

There were a few sort of

26:04

pop restaurants serve and tasting menus.

26:06

People were involved in an and

26:08

this lab Grown she comes available

26:11

without It doesn't seem to be

26:13

available to the public anywhere in

26:15

the states and there has been

26:17

a bit of push. Back in

26:19

March twenty twenty four run census,

26:21

the Republican Governor of Florida passed

26:23

a law that bans anyone from

26:26

selling or distributing lab grown meat

26:28

in that state and similar. Efforts

26:30

are actually under way in

26:32

Alabama, Arizona and Tennessee. That's

26:35

interesting. Why is that been Same as the

26:37

Spanish you think? He said that

26:39

Florida was countering what he called

26:41

the global elites plan to force

26:43

the world's to eat meat grown

26:46

in a petri dish on Fox.

26:48

So I think it's safe to

26:50

say that this debate is sort

26:52

of family and culture war territory.

26:54

Yeah, Whoop! Thank you so much Simon for

26:56

taking time off your busy schedule. I know you're

26:59

doing lots of recordings at the moment. What program

27:01

he went? You know, I am on

27:03

a Bbc Radio Four so called

27:05

antisocial which is very much in the

27:07

suits occult to territory. That and. And

27:12

never leaves me assistants and you can

27:14

sign and essential wacky that you be

27:17

per pass. This is the cream

27:19

effect since a d send us any. Of

27:21

your questions he might have on this

27:23

subject or any other and own threat

27:25

in a feature saves the email is

27:27

the climate question. It's. bbc.com.

27:30

A producer mislead Simon Zealot

27:32

as he had spacetime that

27:34

Tilson series producer and exists

27:37

and editors China Collins and

27:39

Simon. Was fixing by Tom Brake

27:41

know and great accent next time.

27:57

I'm. Suzanne Wilton and for more

27:59

than two decades I've been searching

28:01

for the truth behind the world's

28:03

largest gold hoax. We were sitting

28:05

on one of the largest coal

28:07

deposits world had ever found a

28:09

mother lower across the world Indonesia,

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a billion. Dollar conned on

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a scale never seen. Before

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or since it looks like they've

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invented the deposit, this is a

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scam and the deeper I dig

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the more questions I unearthed. People

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were women to roll the dice

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at any cost. The six billion

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dollar gold stem from the Bbc,

28:31

World Service and Cdc. Find it

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wherever you get your future.