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1:00

In 2012, a new charity bursts

1:03

onto the scene. It's called Believe

1:05

in Magic, and it grants wishes

1:07

to seriously ill children. It

1:09

has the support of the biggest boy band

1:12

in the world, One Direction. It's

1:14

run by an inspirational 16-year-old

1:17

girl called Megan Bari, who

1:19

herself is battling a brain

1:20

tumour. I've been in and out of hospital and

1:22

seen so many other very poorly children. But

1:25

when questions arise about her story, they

1:28

reveal she could be facing another,

1:30

very different danger. What is

1:32

this girl going through?

1:33

It wasn't supposed to end like this. Listen

1:35

to Believe in Magic, with me, Jamie

1:38

Bartlett.

1:40

Hi,

1:42

this

1:46

is Janhvi Mure from Mumbai. The

1:48

thing I like about this city is

1:51

ocean, opportunities and

1:54

people full of energy. My

1:57

name is Baudiya, and I speak to

1:59

you.

1:59

from Jakarta. What I like the most

2:02

about living in the city is the convenience

2:04

to get anything I want and need. Cities.

2:08

It's where over half of us live.

2:10

But

2:13

what I hate is noise,

2:16

pollution and endless

2:18

hours in traffic. What

2:20

I hate the most, the pollution.

2:22

And all this traffic,

2:24

the wear of air conditioning units,

2:27

the coal fires. It comes at

2:29

a cost to our health and

2:31

the planets.

2:32

75% of

2:34

greenhouse gas emissions emanate

2:37

from cities. Greenhouse gas emissions

2:39

are the stuff that are being pumped into

2:41

the sky at an alarming rate and causing

2:44

the climate to change.

2:47

Some say they have a solution.

2:49

A solution that will not only

2:51

reduce our footprint on this planet,

2:54

but make living in cities more enjoyable.

2:58

15 minute cities where everything you need is within 15.

3:00

Something called 15 minute cities. And if

3:02

you do live in a 15 minute city. The

3:05

idea being you can walk out your front

3:07

door and within a quarter of an hour

3:10

access every amenity you might

3:12

need. Doctors and

3:14

dentists, playgrounds and

3:17

nurseries, shops and banks.

3:20

We ask, how could 15 minute

3:22

cities help fight climate change?

3:25

We explore the controversy.

3:26

When the reality of what

3:28

these 15 minute cities really are going

3:31

to mean, there is going to be massive resistance.

3:34

And head to Bogota in Colombia

3:36

where they're trying it out. Now

3:39

we're heading to a pub called

3:41

Esta Plaruta. There's always

3:43

music.

3:46

This is the Climate Question

3:49

from the BBC World Service. I'm

3:51

Gray Jackson.

3:55

Thank you. Let's

4:00

get going with our first guest, Mark

4:03

Watts. I'm the executive

4:05

director of C40 Cities. It's

4:08

a network, basically, of the mayors of

4:10

the biggest, the most influential cities

4:13

in the world that come together to help

4:16

each other be more proactive in tackling

4:18

the climate crisis, in bringing down emissions,

4:20

improving resilience, but doing so

4:22

in a way that's inclusive and improves equity,

4:25

improves people's quality of life in

4:27

those cities.

4:28

We've heard how cities create 75% of

4:31

the world's planet-warming gases, but

4:34

let's drill into that further. Where

4:36

do these emissions come from?

4:38

The biggest one of all, you're generalising across

4:40

the whole of the world, energy that's consumed

4:43

in buildings. The places that we live,

4:45

the places that we work,

4:47

that's about 60% of the emissions across

4:49

C40 cities. The other two

4:51

big ones, actually, the one that people often forget about, it's

4:54

food. About a quarter of emissions in

4:56

cities come from what people eat, and then the big

4:58

third chunk is how people move around transport.

5:01

And so some think that turning

5:03

to 15-minute cities as a concept,

5:06

as a solution, might help

5:08

bring down emissions. How

5:12

do they think they could tackle those big

5:15

buckets that you've been talking about?

5:17

Well,

5:18

fundamentally, the 15-minute city concept, it's

5:20

about taking back control of time at a human level.

5:23

So it's not accepting that living in a city

5:25

means that you've got to spend

5:27

long parts of your day on journeys

5:29

to do essential things. But

5:31

if you follow that through, if we're not all

5:34

driving an hour, an hour and a half

5:37

to and from work every day, or

5:39

taking the train, if we're able

5:41

to perform lots of the necessary parts of life,

5:44

going to health centres, kids to school, work closer

5:47

to home,

5:48

at least some of the time,

5:50

as lots of people learnt to do during

5:52

the pandemic, then immediately

5:55

you just reduce that consumption

5:57

of petrol that goes into making

5:59

those vehicles.

6:01

The other key idea is that each square metre

6:04

has multiple uses. Let

6:06

me give you an example. Schools close

6:08

their doors in the evenings and over the holidays.

6:11

But what if the playgrounds remained open

6:13

so that others could play basketball, say,

6:16

or use the sports fields for athletics?

6:19

Or what about an otherwise empty office staying

6:21

open in the evenings to host learning

6:23

or talks? This reduces

6:26

the need for more infrastructure to be built,

6:28

it reduces energy consumption and therefore

6:31

reduces emissions.

6:33

Using land in different ways also

6:35

helps keep cities dense, which

6:38

further encourages people to walk or

6:40

cycle. Setting up cities in

6:42

this way could cut emissions by 25%. That's

6:46

according to the Intergovernmental Panel

6:48

on Climate Change, the world's gold

6:51

standard on science around climate change.

6:54

So the impact could be huge.

6:58

Let's head to Bogota in Colombia, where

7:00

one neighbourhood has been living under 15-minute

7:03

city principles for just under a year.

7:05

My name is

7:07

Encar Loiga. Right now I'm

7:10

in San Felipe neighborhood. It's

7:12

pretty noisy out here

7:15

because we're close to the main avenue. I

7:17

can see a lot of houses,

7:20

old houses with

7:23

green areas, with gardens. It's

7:26

rainy, it's cold, it's

7:29

not sunny at all.

7:30

I've never been to Bogota, but when I looked

7:32

at some pictures online before this interview,

7:36

I saw that it's like a city in

7:38

the mountains and you have these green

7:40

luscious mountains all around you. Can

7:42

you see the mountains from where you are now?

7:44

Yeah, the most iconic

7:46

mountains are the Cerros del Oriente.

7:50

And I can see it. When you wake up you

7:52

can see them. So it's pretty

7:54

high here.

7:56

It sounds gorgeous, doesn't it?

7:58

But something less gorgeous? terrible

8:01

congestion. Straddling two

8:03

main roads into the city centre, San

8:06

Felipe was seen as a shortcut

8:08

to bypass the traffic jams.

8:09

So that's why these

8:12

kind of projects are starting because

8:14

they want to keep the

8:17

time for the people that just spent

8:19

two hours or four hours or even

8:21

six hours in a bus

8:24

going to your work and it's

8:27

like waste time every day.

8:28

Oh my goodness it can take six hours

8:30

on a bus to get to work. Yeah

8:33

and because this city it's pretty

8:35

big so that's why

8:37

the people spent a lot of time and

8:40

I think that these kind of projects

8:42

can relieve that, can help people

8:45

to save their time, to

8:48

measure the distance between all

8:50

the services zone and the residential zones

8:53

and I realized that they are pretty close from

8:55

the big center, big heart of

8:57

San Felipe. You walk five minutes

9:00

and you find a hospital. Another

9:03

five minutes and you can find different

9:05

kinds of supermarkets, organic

9:07

food, vegetarian food, there

9:10

are art galleries everywhere, restaurants

9:13

but not regular restaurant. Alternative

9:17

restaurants with a concept, they

9:19

are pretty good beer with pretty

9:22

nice pubs out here. Very important.

9:25

Yeah.

9:33

So

9:33

everything is walkable or

9:36

cyclable and to encourage inhabitants

9:38

to do just that, the local authorities

9:41

have reclaimed the roads putting

9:43

in bike lanes and widening footpaths

9:46

to include brightly colored seating areas

9:49

for student with Speed

9:51

restrictions have been put into place to discourage

9:54

cars cutting through the neighborhood too.

9:57

Here's fellow Colombian Vanessa Velasquez.

9:59

from the World Bank who's been involved

10:02

with the project from the start. 6.6% of

10:06

the congestion and pollution was decreased.

10:08

There was a reduction in the average speed between

10:12

6am and 8pm. It's important

10:14

to mention that there was an increase of

10:16

the use of cycling and bicycle system.

10:19

It's almost more than 80%.

10:22

And that's something that was noticed by resident Gian,

10:24

stop the talk today. There are many

10:26

people who are coming. He

10:30

says he's noticed people have started to take

10:32

advantage of cycle lanes. And

10:34

not just with bikes, but with electric

10:36

skateboards too.

10:38

In the park, there's a lot of people.

10:42

This local artist says that he can notice

10:44

the difference in the traffic in San Felipe.

10:48

Do you live in a 15-minute city? What's

10:50

been your experience? Get

10:52

in touch via email. It's theclimatequestionatbbc.com

10:57

And please do send a voice note if you can.

11:00

I have to say, I love the idea

11:03

of being able to bike and walk everywhere. But

11:06

not everyone in San Felipe has

11:08

been happy with the changes.

11:10

One of them told me that

11:13

it wasn't that good. Because

11:16

they can see that the difference of

11:18

the people that understood their business,

11:21

to their shops, to their restaurants, are

11:24

not the same before the

11:26

project was implemented.

11:27

So you're saying before

11:30

the project, lots of people used to come

11:32

in in their cars and go to these restaurants

11:35

and cafes. But now that it's

11:37

been pedestrianised, there's

11:39

not as much footfall and not as many people

11:41

are going.

11:41

Yeah, yeah. Vanessa

11:45

at the World Bank says their data shows

11:48

the opposite. That sales were actually

11:50

up because people perceived the neighbourhood

11:52

to be safer.

11:54

But actually, a lot of people GM spoke

11:56

to hadn't heard of the initiative at

11:58

all. know like

12:01

the necessary science to

12:04

know that something happened there.

12:07

And when communities aren't consulted

12:10

it sets off alarm bells for Jay

12:12

Pitter. I am a

12:15

placemaker and an urban

12:17

planning adjunct professor. What

12:20

a job title! What

12:22

does that involve? Well, placemaking

12:26

is focused on the

12:28

design, planning,

12:31

programming and policy of

12:33

public spaces. How do

12:35

you describe your position on 15 Minute

12:38

Cities?

12:38

Constructively critical.

12:41

Okay, why do you say that? I say

12:43

that because just like

12:47

many competent, passionate,

12:50

place-based professionals, I

12:53

of course support the need

12:56

for density and connectivity

12:59

in

12:59

cities. And so

13:01

in that way I support

13:04

the core values

13:07

behind this particular

13:09

idea. I am hugely

13:12

critical of it because

13:14

it is top-down,

13:17

it's technocratic, it hasn't

13:19

been ground-tested with community.

13:23

Urban planning has a history

13:26

of proposing big ideas.

13:29

However, there's been a history of

13:31

these ideas being created

13:34

in relatively small

13:37

rooms with relatively

13:39

privileged people who are

13:41

not as aware of the

13:43

various realities of

13:46

urban dwellers. And so these

13:48

ideas tend to come from

13:50

the top down into

13:53

community and they've often

13:55

landed on the ground in

13:58

ways that have been extremely important. extraordinarily

14:00

detrimental to people

14:03

from historically marginalized

14:05

groups like women, disabled

14:08

people, racialized people

14:10

and poor people.

14:14

Because

14:14

of this lack of investment, legacy and

14:17

poor areas, Jay thinks history

14:19

will likely repeat itself with 15-minute

14:21

cities. Only the rich will get

14:24

everything they need within a quarter of an hour,

14:26

whilst those that are less well off will be

14:28

forced to travel further. If

14:30

they travel by car, that also

14:32

means more planet warming gases. But

14:36

even if those neighbourhoods do

14:38

get the investment they need, shops,

14:40

barbers, cafes and doctors all

14:42

open their doors for business, it

14:45

could drive up house and rental

14:47

prices, and drive out

14:49

locals who can no longer afford it. And

14:52

there's nothing within the 15-minute city

14:55

concept to stop that from happening,

14:57

Jay argues.

14:58

And that's what I mean about this idea

15:02

not being evidence-based, because

15:04

anyone who actually

15:06

reads and researches and doesn't

15:09

just listen to the sound of their own voice,

15:12

will know that there's considerable

15:15

evidence out there about

15:17

the ways that even really

15:19

well-intended great ideas

15:22

are adversely impacting

15:25

working class, racialized,

15:28

disabled

15:28

people and people who are

15:31

already suffering within urban

15:33

context. We're a climate program,

15:36

Jay. What do you make of

15:38

the contention that this is

15:40

a good thing for the climate?

15:43

It certainly is a good

15:45

thing for the climate, but if we

15:48

were using an environmental justice

15:50

lens and not simply a

15:52

status quo sustainability

15:54

lens, we would be asking

15:56

questions such as who

15:59

is most

15:59

vulnerable. And when we

16:02

ask those types of questions, again,

16:05

the 15-minute city idea begins

16:08

to fall apart. We know that

16:11

large institutions like

16:13

hospitals and universities,

16:15

art galleries are often

16:17

clustered in more affluent

16:20

neighborhoods. Street infrastructures

16:22

such as good crosswalks

16:25

and streetlights and bike lanes tend

16:28

to be located again in higher-income

16:31

neighborhoods. It only works for

16:33

people who live in hyper-local

16:36

contexts that have been historically

16:39

privileged, amenity-rich,

16:42

transit-rich, infrastructure-rich.

16:46

I really don't understand that.

16:48

Mark Watts from C40 Cities,

16:50

who we heard from at the start. Because

16:53

when I look at the 15-minute

16:56

city type programs happening in

16:58

cities right across the world, from

17:00

Latin America to China, Europe and North America,

17:02

Africa in between, most

17:04

of them start from a focus

17:07

on the lower-income neighborhoods in their city.

17:10

Because often the wealthier neighborhoods already

17:12

have basically a 15-minute city approach,

17:15

service is easily accessible.

17:17

Her other concern was

17:19

that if you start building all

17:22

this infrastructure, the bike lanes, the

17:24

play schools, the hospitals, the doctors,

17:26

everything that you could want, that

17:29

then becomes an attractive proposition for other

17:31

people. And they move to the area, they

17:33

drive up house prices or rental prices,

17:36

and they actually push out the less

17:39

wealthy people who end

17:41

up living on the outskirts somewhere and having to

17:43

come in. Yeah,

17:44

but that sounds like an argument for me for

17:46

never doing anything to improve the least advantaged

17:49

neighborhoods in case wealthier people

17:51

then want to live there. I mean, I think the

17:53

answer here is we want to make

17:55

15-minute city neighborhoods the norm.

17:58

That's what all neighborhoods...

17:59

I like that everybody's got a right to access

18:02

all the basic services in

18:04

an easier reach of home and to have access to green

18:06

space and to have low air pollution

18:08

and not to be tortured by the noise

18:11

of cars and the pollution from cars.

18:13

I think the answer here is to make sure

18:15

that it applies for every part of the city,

18:17

not just a few of the wealthiest parts.

18:21

Making inequality worse is a

18:23

key concern for some, but there have

18:25

been some other upsets around how

18:27

these schemes have been implemented. Some

18:30

local authorities have fined cars for

18:32

entering city centres, for instance, and

18:35

some locals feel they weren't consulted

18:37

on the changes.

18:38

There is going to be massive resistance

18:41

to the attempted theft

18:43

of our rights and freedoms.

18:46

There's also been a lot of disinformation

18:49

spreading, with conspiracy theories

18:51

claiming that 15-minute cities are

18:54

tools of oppression being wielded by

18:56

governments, trapping people in their

18:58

own neighbourhoods. A bit like a

19:00

Covid lockdown,

19:02

but a climate lockdown.

19:04

Why do you think these conspiracy theories around

19:07

15-minute cities have a risen

19:09

mark? Well, I think the main reason

19:11

this is just another of their kind

19:13

of culture wars, an attempt to

19:15

get

19:17

disenfranchised people

19:19

angry about something that can be made

19:22

to fit within a concept

19:24

that

19:25

they in government, whatever party

19:27

they are, don't care about you and are out

19:29

to restrict your freedom. However spurious

19:31

the basis of that. I think the other reason is

19:34

the big social media campaigns against

19:36

15-minute cities tend to come from quite

19:38

conservative backgrounds. This is a

19:41

popular opportunity to reduce traffic,

19:43

to reduce reliance on high-carbon

19:45

forms of transport, and to

19:48

gain popular support for

19:50

public space, public provision of services,

19:53

community activity

19:55

that isn't all about consumption.

19:57

To me, it feels like we're in the last... stage

20:00

of that battle that we really are moving towards

20:02

a low-carbon, prosperous future

20:04

rather than destroying our civilisation

20:07

by trying to stay with the old fossil fuel economy.

20:10

But it means that people with those vested interests are

20:12

fighting harder than ever.

20:13

Jay has another theory as to why

20:15

these conspiracy theories have come about.

20:18

I am sure that the

20:21

15-minute city and intensification

20:24

is not a conspiracy

20:25

theory, but I'm

20:27

also sure that the way that

20:29

it has been articulated from

20:32

the top down, the way that there

20:34

hasn't been enough focus

20:36

on public education and

20:38

public engagement, I am

20:41

sure that that is also fueling

20:43

this fire,

20:44

which is so detrimental actually

20:46

to the climate movement.

20:52

We need more people than ever before

20:55

to embrace intensification,

20:58

to embrace density. We're running

21:00

out of time. The climate crisis

21:03

clock is ticking and we actually

21:05

can't afford to have

21:08

these wild ideas circulating.

21:10

Yeah, and it's also the case

21:12

that cities are where

21:15

action is happening first and fastest.

21:18

And you look around the world, 15-minute

21:21

cities in one place, it's 20-minute in another,

21:23

it's kind of revitalised neighbourhoods,

21:25

it's the 15-minute community

21:27

life circle in Chinese cities.

21:31

There's lots of different ways. Compact, dense cities that are

21:33

very green, easy to get about, but

21:35

without producing lots of carbon emissions. That's

21:37

the thing that needs to be universal and

21:40

has any prospect of being

21:42

an environmentally sustainable

21:44

place to live.

21:50

Our climate question this week was, will

21:52

15-minute cities help solve

21:54

climate change? And the answer is

21:56

yes, there's no debate about that.

21:59

There is, however, debate around whether

22:02

it will perpetuate inequality and

22:04

whether it's too top down to gain local

22:06

support. And the conspiracy

22:09

theories go to show what happens if

22:11

people don't feel involved in the process.

22:21

A few weeks back we welcomed the magnificent

22:24

Marco Silva on the programme to

22:26

ask whether natural gas can ever be

22:28

green. And today we welcome him back.

22:31

Hello.

22:31

Hello, thanks for having me. We

22:33

had quite a few listener questions off the back

22:35

of that show and I just want to run some

22:37

of them through with you. First

22:39

up here's an email from Jan. At

22:42

which stages of the production of

22:44

natural gas do consumers or other

22:46

actors create most issues for climate

22:49

change? Secondly, one of the presenters

22:51

stated they cook with electricity

22:53

and not gas.

22:54

However, how is this electricity made

22:57

with coal or gas or other?

23:00

So, where are the most

23:02

planet warming gases created, Marco,

23:04

in that sort of supply chain of gas if

23:06

we go from where it's taken out of the

23:08

ground all the way through to me turning on

23:10

my heating and my gas boiler firing up? Statistics

23:13

seem to suggest that 70

23:16

to 80% of

23:18

greenhouse gas emissions come up when

23:21

you burn natural gas. So,

23:23

that means when you use it at home to

23:26

cook your dinner, to heat your home. But

23:30

there are problems at other stages

23:32

too. When it's extracted,

23:35

it can leak directly into

23:38

the atmosphere.

23:38

And I think both of us said we cook

23:40

with electricity. I think you do too. Yep.

23:43

And I think we're both on a renewable energy

23:45

tariff. That's right. But that doesn't actually

23:48

mean that the power is entirely

23:50

made with renewables all the time.

23:52

It is more complicated. And I think if

23:54

you put in your mind this image of

23:57

a big pot, right, to

23:59

which different...

23:59

producers of energy contribute

24:02

to. So you have your nuclear energy,

24:05

you have your wind farms, your solar

24:07

panels, burning of natural gas,

24:09

burning of coal, all of those different sources

24:12

are putting that electricity into

24:14

this big pot from which all

24:17

of our houses and workplaces and

24:19

buildings and so on draw electricity

24:22

from. So does that mean

24:24

that the electricity that we use at home is

24:26

indeed 100% renewable? No.

24:29

And the reason why is simple. When you think about

24:31

wind farms or solar panels, the

24:34

sun isn't always shining, the wind

24:36

isn't always blowing. And so when

24:39

we pay

24:40

a 100% renewable energy

24:42

tariff, we're paying for the company

24:44

to inject renewable electricity

24:47

into the grid.

24:48

Okay. I hope that answers your

24:51

question, Jan. Let's move on to an email

24:53

that Chris sent to theclimatequestion

24:56

at bbc.com.

24:57

I listened to this morning's program with interest.

25:00

One enormous item was ignored. There

25:02

was no consideration of how the energy would get

25:05

to the end user or how the end

25:07

user would cope with such a change of energy type.

25:10

If all energy consumed was electricity,

25:12

the existing electricity infrastructure

25:15

just could not cope with such a huge increase

25:17

in supply. How

25:18

long would it take to grow the electricity

25:20

infrastructure and what would be the environmental

25:23

impacts of such a change?

25:25

So Chris is right. We only looked at the

25:27

production of energy and

25:30

we do this because we have to focus our programs and

25:32

we can't explore every issue in

25:34

every show. That said, it's

25:36

a really big transition, right Marco, to

25:39

move from gas boilers and gas hobs and petrol

25:41

propelled cars to appliances

25:44

that are entirely electric.

25:46

It's a huge

25:49

jump. So if countries are to turn their

25:51

backs on natural gas, there's no two ways about

25:54

it. We're going to need a lot more

25:56

electricity infrastructure but perhaps

25:59

not as much as you might.

25:59

think. And that is because the

26:03

engineers, the academics that are thinking

26:05

about all things related to this transition

26:08

away from fossil fuels, they

26:11

say that this transition

26:13

can't happen without us thinking

26:16

about energy efficiency

26:19

and energy waste. And

26:21

let me explain what I mean by that with an

26:23

example. If you think about

26:26

the way we heat our homes, right? To

26:28

move away from natural gas, we

26:31

know that one of the things we can use is

26:33

heat pumps. Now heat pumps

26:36

generate three units

26:38

of heat

26:39

for every unit of electricity.

26:42

And we know that if homes are thoroughly

26:45

insulated, what that means is that

26:48

you're not going to need as much

26:50

electricity as you might need to

26:52

make your house warm and

26:55

cozy. So the bottom line here is

26:58

by making our houses,

27:00

our businesses, everything, by making life

27:03

a bit more energy efficient,

27:05

overall, we're going to need less

27:08

energy. So when this transition happens,

27:11

perhaps we won't need as

27:13

much infrastructure as

27:15

you might have thought at the beginning.

27:18

Marco, thank you so much. I really appreciate that

27:20

you took the time to come in. And thank

27:22

you also to our listeners who emailed

27:24

in to the show. And if you have

27:26

any questions, thoughts, feedback, do

27:28

send them on to theclimatquestionatbbc.com.

27:32

We'll be regularly featuring them

27:34

on the programme like we have done today. So if

27:36

you can send us an audio recording

27:39

or a video asking your questions or

27:41

leaving your feedback, that would be awesome.

27:45

I tell you what is also awesome,

27:47

the team of journalists who work with me to

27:49

make the show. There's producer Ben Cooper

27:52

and researchers Matt Toulson and

27:54

Bethan Ashmead Latham. Alex

27:56

Lewis is our series producer and

27:58

China Collins is our editor.

27:59

And the person we have to thank

28:02

for mixing the show and making it sound

28:04

magical is Tom Bregnell. In 2008,

28:13

23-year-old Norwegian student Martina

28:16

Vik Magnussen went missing after

28:18

a night out with friends in London. I

28:20

wonder what on earth could have happened. We

28:23

were so obsessed with just finding

28:25

her. Then 23-year-old

28:27

Martina Vik Magnussen was found

28:29

partially buried in the basement. I'm

28:34

Noelle McAfee and I've been following

28:36

the stories since Martina was killed,

28:39

making a promise to Martina's family to

28:41

find out what happened and find

28:43

the only suspect in the case. Farouk

28:46

Abdelhak.

28:47

Leave me a message and I'll get back to you.

28:49

He's never been questioned by the police. Nobody's

28:52

been able to speak to him. Until

28:54

now. Murder in Mayfair.

28:57

You can listen to the whole story now.

29:00

Search for the documentary wherever

29:02

you get your BBC podcasts.

29:10

In 2012, a new charity

29:12

bursts onto the scene.

29:15

It's called Believe in Magic and

29:17

it grants wishes to seriously ill children.

29:21

It's run by an inspirational 16-year-old

29:23

girl called Megan Bari.

29:26

I just wanted to give them the magical experiences

29:29

back. It has the support of the biggest

29:31

boy band in the world. One

29:34

Direction. Believe

29:36

in Magic quickly becomes a household

29:39

name in the child cancer community, putting

29:41

on parties, sending thoughtful gifts,

29:44

even organising trips to Disney.

29:46

Every single child there felt

29:49

like they were so important and they

29:51

weren't poorly, they weren't in a hospital. It

29:54

was out of this world.

29:55

Megan is adored by all

29:57

those she helps. and

30:00

love for people than

30:02

I'd ever met anybody before. Because

30:05

she herself is extremely unwell

30:07

with a life-threatening brain tumor.

30:10

Her handbag

30:12

was so heavy, none of us could ever carry it

30:14

and it was full of medicine.

30:17

When something doesn't add up about Megan's

30:19

story, a small group

30:21

of parents start to question whether

30:23

Meg is really ill. I'd call

30:25

it a witch hunt kind of thing, asking

30:28

questions like, which hospital

30:30

are you in? They know that they're not being

30:32

honest about her illnesses. We

30:35

collectively said, we won't let it drop,

30:37

we'll find out this time.

30:40

But is Megan actually facing a very

30:43

different danger? It's

30:45

awful. It's really not nice

30:48

listening to that, was it? What

30:50

is this girl going through?

30:53

I'm Jamie Bartlett, a journalist and

30:55

author, and together with the producer Ruth,

30:58

we've spent the last year trying to get to

31:00

the bottom of what really happened to Megan

31:02

Barrie and her charity Believe

31:05

in Magic.

31:06

I cannot for the life of me understand

31:08

why you've done what you've done to us. It

31:11

takes us on a journey far stranger.

31:13

I just saw a Mercedes, I thought it was it. It's

31:16

not her car. It's not her car, is it? And far

31:19

darker than we ever expected.

31:22

I know what the truth is, I've read the records

31:25

and they just come in and lie

31:27

to me. It wasn't supposed to end like this. Listen

31:30

to Believe in Magic.

31:55

You