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Search for World of Secrets wherever you

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get your BBC podcasts. Welcome

1:28

to the Climate Question from the BBC

1:30

World Service. This is Elena from Lithuania.

1:32

My name is Alexandra. Hi, my name

1:34

is Susan. And I'm your

1:36

host, Greer Jackson. And this week, listeners

1:39

like the ones you just heard are

1:41

taking over the show with their climate

1:43

questions. What

1:46

is happening on cities' rooftops? Should

1:48

they be used to increase the resilience of

1:50

cities? I wanted to ask

1:52

if military conflicts factor into our climate

1:54

models or not. What is the

1:57

carbon footprint of our pets? Climate

2:00

Question at bbc.com If

2:02

you. Have a burning question you can do the

2:04

same a more try an answer it in a few to

2:06

say. To

2:09

answer those questions I'm relying on help

2:11

from a handful of very smart people.

2:13

They are as May start Climate and

2:15

Science and listed Bbc Nice as May

2:18

is with me in the city or

2:20

month and high as I on it's

2:22

really nice day as and of the

2:24

same time in the thing on the

2:26

climate or sign may have made a

2:28

the emphasis would welcome since his dogs

2:30

accept. Rafi is a senior reporter for

2:32

Climate that Bloomberg Green an author of

2:34

Any Back Climate Capitalism a book that

2:36

are geez how the green economy is

2:38

not only possible but. Profitable and accept

2:40

your in doubles in Switzerland? What

2:42

Are you doing that? Mulvey

2:44

was tracking down the climate capitalists are

2:47

the actually putting money to works to

2:49

the solutions and we need. And this

2:51

is part of a big conference, isn't that? A. Yes

2:53

is the World Economic Forum and it happens

2:55

every January and you get the rich and

2:57

powerful and the moneyed people come here to

2:59

talk about but the rest of the year

3:01

is going to look like. And

3:03

zooming in from silly is professor

3:06

at times and Edwards sees

3:08

a scientist at King's College London

3:10

specializing in modeling climate change so

3:13

we can predict what will happen

3:15

in future. Toolset a lead also

3:17

on the Ip Ccs that's the

3:20

Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change Six

3:22

Assessment of Seek report on

3:24

Climate Change, the Gold Standard at

3:27

Slates. That we refer to a lot on the.

3:29

South welcomes hands and overeating and

3:31

silly as well as the strangely

3:33

enough given the I do modeling

3:35

I've been helping to install a

3:37

weather stations I have a mountain

3:39

in Patagonia. As far as

3:42

a a project vehicle, dems deplete

3:44

and retreats because. We're looking sweet local

3:46

such as and silly at how the

3:48

Andean Prophecy is that they detained in

3:50

the future. The real importance ninety million

3:52

people depend on them said their food

3:54

and water security. Wow. It sounds

3:56

like an axe impact trip. Say before we

3:58

get to those listener quest Then we hired

4:00

As May as the Bbc the climate and

4:02

Science reporter. I'm curious. what have you been

4:04

reports on? Recently apart from recovering

4:07

from. Competent on Ossetia and cult thing

4:09

the world say climate com esse I'm in

4:11

my view way on friends. exactly. Little sleep,

4:13

much coffee, I'm better. I'm recover from that.

4:16

Nasa fits you. Been listening at the recent

4:18

announced that we had last week that Norway's

4:20

parliament has agreed to open up a massive

4:22

area about the size of the Uk and

4:25

it's national waters. Funny to be mine and

4:27

for the had to deal with climate change

4:29

well the reason that doing that is because

4:31

they are on a desperate hunt. Said minerals

4:34

and metals like Kobo Copper scanned in all

4:36

things that we need for green. Technologies and

4:38

previously I've been listening at this from

4:40

an international scale. That reason this is

4:42

a big is it's actually the first

4:44

time in the world is in a

4:46

country on a press forward with allowing

4:48

mr happen right Aca. Another impacts of

4:51

the mining itself on the climate. Oh

4:53

this is always the really big concerns

4:55

the she was deep sea mining. I

4:57

mean it can happen fairly shallow depth

4:59

of about two hundred meters. that kinda

5:01

cool would way down see six thousand

5:03

seven thousand meters sites era. Really don't

5:05

know anything with. A

5:09

He C. Assess. Damage

5:11

the have a tougher down that either

5:13

animals aren't used to sing like all

5:15

noise laughed at husband both say what

5:17

happens if you to stop it or

5:19

sentiments that we know on kinda storing

5:21

carbon states cel of questions which is

5:23

why the same as concerns and why

5:25

wouldn't we just get some of these

5:27

very important precious metals from landfills says

5:29

were presumably they're much easier to get

5:31

out and six thousand meters down underwater.

5:33

well he got you think say when

5:35

you am I think part of this

5:37

is that. National Security

5:39

me we saw with the invasion

5:41

of Ukraine by Russia didn't speak

5:43

much to secure energy. Sources and that

5:46

is the same. Some minoru the matter

5:48

with countries like Norway want to be

5:50

out to just below and himself to

5:52

sign days and a moment. It's not

5:54

that he's Mendoza necessarily. Scar sits at

5:56

that location a few countries which themselves

5:58

can sometimes be difficult to. trade with,

6:00

for example, the Democratic Republic of Congo, a

6:02

major source of copper and cobalt, has been

6:05

undergoing conflict of a year. So, there's a

6:07

concern about that. Okay. Actually,

6:09

is this a story that you've been following as well? Well,

6:12

deep sea mining is something that is

6:14

being talked about a lot. There are

6:17

investors who are salivating at the opportunity

6:19

of another resource boom

6:21

and seeing that a country like

6:23

Norway, which you would presume as

6:26

a European country, really does understand

6:28

environment better than others, is

6:31

kind of a shock to the system. And

6:33

we'll see what that does to the international

6:35

diplomacy because there are many parts of the

6:37

world where this could be happening. And it

6:39

could be in very fragile places like in

6:42

the Pacific. As may. In quite

6:44

an unusual move, a group of more than

6:46

100 EU lawmakers wrote a letter to the

6:48

Norwegian parliament saying, don't do this. It's just

6:50

quite strange to intervene in another European country's

6:53

politics. But having said that, just across the

6:55

pond, the US is awaiting a major report

6:57

on the 1st of March about how it can

6:59

exploit its own national waters for minerals and

7:01

metals. So, I don't think it's yet clear cut

7:03

on where we're going to go on this issue.

7:05

And yeah, I'll be intending to follow what happens.

7:07

I'm sure you'll be following it very closely. Yes,

7:09

May. Actually, we're going to come to your news

7:11

story a little bit later in the program

7:13

because we are the climate question. And as

7:15

I mentioned, listeners are setting the agenda

7:18

this week with their questions. So,

7:20

without further ado, let's hand over

7:22

to Pooja in India. She

7:25

asks, how does climate change

7:27

impact slum houses and what

7:29

can we do for the

7:32

safety of slum dwellers? Actually,

7:34

you're originally from India. How

7:36

are informal assessments impacted by

7:38

climate change? A shorthand

7:41

to think about these things is that

7:43

things that are already harmful to humans

7:45

are likely to be made worse by climate change. And

7:48

slums are essentially places where poor

7:51

people who can't afford housing build

7:54

informal settlements. They typically use construction

7:56

material that is not of great

7:58

quality. Often these are tin

8:01

roofs. You can imagine India is a hot

8:03

country. In the summer, the tin roof heats

8:05

up and you're even hotter inside than you

8:07

are outside. And so extreme

8:10

weather events of the kind of a

8:12

heat wave or floods can

8:14

really have devastating impact on the

8:16

region. It will have worse impact

8:19

on slum dwellers. Now,

8:21

it's not to say climate is

8:23

the only variable. Really the control

8:26

for solutions to the problems that

8:28

slum dwellers face lies with the

8:30

city governments. And many city governments

8:32

have the plans that they would like

8:35

to deploy to try and deal with

8:37

the problem, not just for climate, but

8:39

for human wellbeing. The trouble

8:41

always is they don't always have

8:43

the money. And so

8:46

one of the solutions to really

8:48

tackling climate impacts is to have

8:50

more wealth, more money and richer

8:53

economies that can actually help people

8:55

not live in these vulnerable

8:58

situations that they do not

9:00

just in India, but many parts of

9:02

the developing world. Has made

9:04

the way... ...the way... ...the

9:09

nature of them. This is more from the lack

9:11

of clouding investment from governments actually. So rather

9:13

than people living in them. And

9:15

they also impact the environment around them, which enables

9:17

them to kind of prepare for climate change. A

9:20

few years ago I visited Lima City, all the

9:23

driest parts of the world. And there's loads of

9:25

informal settlements on the hills. And there's a very

9:27

special ecosystem there called the Lomath, which collects fog

9:29

in the winter. And that's basically the main source

9:32

of water for this very dry city. And as

9:34

those settlements develop, they encroach on that land. And

9:36

that again affects their ability to withstand

9:39

these like drills. So lack of investment

9:41

in these areas for people to provide

9:43

sustainable housing or the same impacts, their

9:45

resilience to climate change and their protection

9:47

that they get from the natural environment

9:49

as well. We've

9:52

got another question on a similar theme. This

9:54

one's for you, Tamsin. It's from

9:56

a 22-year-old in Poland. Alexandra,

10:00

my question is what is happening

10:02

on cities' rooftops? Could they

10:05

be used to increase the resilience of cities?

10:08

Tamsin, living rooftops. First of

10:10

all, what are they and

10:12

do they make cities more

10:14

resilient to climate change? I

10:17

mean, the short answer is yes. Cities are

10:19

urban areas, they tend to be hotter than

10:21

surrounding areas mainly because of the darker surfaces

10:23

that absorb heat. And there are a couple

10:25

of ways roofs can help. There are kind

10:27

of simple ways of painting the roofs with

10:29

a white reflective material to reflect the sun.

10:31

But this kind of more interesting method, I

10:34

think, are the green roofs, putting plants on

10:36

the roofs. Actually, my mum has one. And

10:38

there are loads of benefits. You cool the air.

10:40

Basically, when the plants release water from the leaves,

10:42

they cool the air. A bit like when you

10:44

sweat, it cools you off. They

10:47

clean pollutants from the air, make it

10:49

more humid. They soak up rain, which

10:51

helps reduce flash flooding. Of course, good

10:53

for biodiversity. And greenery is good for

10:56

our mental and physical health. They might

10:58

insulate the house, which helps reduce heating

11:00

and air conditioning bills, even

11:02

protect and soundproof the roof, maybe grow food.

11:04

So just so many different ways that people

11:06

have talked about green roofs potentially

11:08

helping with not just climate change, but

11:11

these sustainable development, quality of life, resilience,

11:13

things that we're really aiming for as

11:15

well. I certainly remember being in Singapore

11:17

and it being covered in greenery.

11:20

Everywhere you looked, roofs, people's

11:22

balconies, and it was really

11:24

nice. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've got family in

11:26

Singapore and there's one of the greener cities, but there

11:29

are lots of other cities that have

11:31

regulations to make new roofs have greenery

11:33

like in Austria, in Zurich, Stuttgart, San

11:35

Francisco. I've seen lots and lots of

11:37

examples. I

11:41

used to work in urban development and I

11:43

remember when green roofs became a big thing,

11:45

they were very exciting. And don't get me

11:47

wrong, they do provide the benefits we've spoken

11:49

about, but they can be quite difficult to

11:51

maintain and actually which people are they benefiting

11:53

off. Like you said, you need quite large

11:55

flat roofs and not everyone has access to

11:57

that, particularly within cities. And

12:00

also it's difficult in cities where reeds are used a lot for

12:02

heating hot water and also for

12:09

solar panels as well. It's not always possible to use

12:11

that space. So I don't think we should give up

12:13

on greening the areas that we walk around as well.

12:16

Edna, this next question is for you.

12:18

It's from T-Mate and she asks, does

12:21

wall contribute to climate change? I

12:24

think most people wouldn't necessarily link

12:26

the two together. Yeah, definitely. I mean, there's

12:28

the direct emissions. So they're the emissions you

12:30

would get from, for example, the fuel used

12:33

in tanks or the energy

12:35

used to make bombs and weapons,

12:37

for example. And then there's

12:39

the indirect emissions that you get that

12:42

maybe don't seem immediately obvious but are

12:44

really important. So for example, one of

12:46

the common techniques used more

12:48

is to target another country or in

12:50

other positions if you like energy infrastructure

12:52

because that affects their ability to

12:54

function. And that can have serious

12:57

consequences in the Gulf War, oil infrastructure

12:59

was targeted and there was these sort

13:01

of oil fires and if you look at pictures of

13:03

the sea of fire, let it off emissions. And at

13:05

the time it was calculated that could be as much

13:07

as 2% of climate emissions in

13:09

those years where that happened. So very significant.

13:12

Also, when that happens often, it drives

13:14

people to use more polluting forms of

13:16

fuel. And you said it's quite hard

13:19

to know how much. You've stated 2%

13:21

during the Gulf Wars. The reason it's

13:23

so difficult is not by accident. In

13:25

fact, in the Paris Agreement back in

13:27

2015, that big agreement country signed up

13:30

to report their emissions as

13:32

part of their national reporting. It was

13:34

decided that emissions from our militaries and

13:36

from the weapons and things we use

13:38

should not be calculated for national security

13:40

purposes. National security purposes. You don't want

13:43

to be putting down how many tanks

13:45

you have. Having said that, you could

13:47

still maybe give a total amount. And

13:49

it means that we're having to rely

13:51

on academics and NGOs to calculate that

13:53

for us. The most recent figure we

13:56

have from 2022 was done in a

13:58

combined report by the conflict and and

14:01

scientists for global responsibilities, and they

14:03

estimated it was about 5.5% of global emissions

14:05

in 2022. Okay, so

14:08

that's more than aviation. More than aviation. It

14:12

would make it, if you had it as a country, let's

14:14

say, it would make it the fourth, so bigger than Russia.

14:16

So we're not talking about a small amount here. Wow. Okay.

14:20

And Sue, if you want to hear more about this, we've made

14:22

an entire program about conflict and its impact on climate change. Just

14:25

search for the Climate Question podcast

14:27

back catalogue for an episode called, How Does

14:30

War Affect Climate Change? Action,

14:32

this is something that you've probably covered, I

14:34

imagine, on Bloomberg Green. But

14:36

it strikes me that we shouldn't really

14:38

lose sight that, whilst we're worried about

14:40

climate change because it harms people, these

14:42

conflicts are obviously doing massive damage to

14:45

individuals' lives and whole

14:47

populations. Very much so. I

14:49

think there is a fear that

14:51

sometimes we might apply the

14:53

climate lens far too much

14:55

when really, over here, the

14:58

humanitarian impact is so much

15:00

greater. And the focus on trying to

15:02

deal with that is 100% the one that

15:04

the world should have. As

15:07

Esme pointed out, the defense departments of

15:10

the world, the US is the world's

15:12

largest army, do have a ton

15:15

of emissions just on standby,

15:18

on national security grounds. There are all

15:20

these emissions. What we

15:22

know is that these institutions are

15:24

also the very institutions who are

15:26

warning about how climate change is

15:29

going to make conflicts more likely.

15:32

It is incumbent upon them as one

15:34

of the largest users of greenhouse gas

15:36

emissions to do something about it. We've

15:39

seen some noises from the US Department

15:41

of Defense to try and move to

15:43

cleaner sources of energy, but it is

15:45

very slow-moving for an institution that is

15:48

supposed to be on the cutting edge

15:50

of technology and really driving change. Let's

15:57

move on to another listener

15:59

question. Hi, my name

16:01

is Susan. I wanted to ask if

16:03

military conflicts factor into our climate models

16:05

or not. So, Tamzin,

16:07

since you work a lot

16:09

with climate models, do

16:12

wars military factor into our

16:14

climate models? I mean,

16:16

the basic answer is no. As far

16:18

as I can tell, we don't have

16:21

anything specifically for conflicts that we put

16:23

into our future emissions scenarios or our

16:25

predictions. So, typically we make climate predictions

16:28

for different scenarios of high emissions, medium

16:30

or low. And those are not

16:32

trying to say those are what the future will

16:34

be, but they're kind of what if pictures. And

16:37

a lot of that, of course, is going to be

16:39

down to the fact that we don't have this reporting

16:41

of emissions. We don't have the measurements. And we need

16:43

those to be able to reduce as much as

16:45

possible, especially the non-operational emissions so

16:47

that we can get closer to net

16:49

zero. I mean, there are some, as

16:51

we've heard, some countries that are reporting

16:53

more and are reducing their emissions more,

16:56

the US, Germany and in the UK.

16:59

They've been saying the Ministry of Defence

17:01

produces half of all central governments carbon

17:03

emissions. So we do have a bit

17:05

of information, but really, I think it's

17:07

about where can we reduce emissions that

17:09

are known to report as much as

17:11

possible and to help countries, of course,

17:13

coming out of conflict for warfare to

17:15

rebuild in a way that's going to be

17:17

as low carbon as possible, which will be obviously

17:19

good for their future, their air quality as

17:22

well as the global climate. Now,

17:28

I said we would come back to your news

17:30

story. And I really want to talk to you

17:32

about something you reported just

17:35

recently about how India is planning

17:37

to roughly double coal production by

17:39

2030. And coal is one

17:41

of the key contributors to climate change, the

17:44

most polluting of the fossil fuels. And

17:47

this is really odd because India

17:49

is really vulnerable to climate change,

17:51

but also because India signed up

17:53

to phase down unabated coal a

17:55

couple of years ago. They're quite

17:58

contradictory commitments. So why is India so important? you're

18:00

doing that? I was scratching my head

18:02

as well when I read that announcement. And, you

18:04

know, the more I looked into it and the

18:06

reporting I did, one thing to

18:08

recognize is India sets goals and then

18:11

often doesn't meet them. And that's a challenge

18:13

for a developing country. And this

18:15

is true, not just in cold, right?

18:18

Many experts say, yes, India is aiming

18:20

for a doubling of co-direction. It's unlikely

18:22

to happen just because of the constraints

18:24

of building stuff in India.

18:26

But it's the same story with

18:28

renewables. India is one of the

18:30

largest deployer of solar and wind

18:33

power, but it's just not deploying

18:35

it fast enough to be able

18:37

to keep up with the demand

18:39

for electricity that the country is

18:41

facing as its economy is

18:43

growing. And so because renewables aren't

18:45

able to meet that demand, the

18:47

government is ending up relying on

18:50

the things that it knows how

18:52

to do, even if not so

18:54

well, it is trying to get

18:56

more coal and more coal power

18:58

plants. And these are just

19:00

challenges that, you know, as a global

19:02

community, we need to face because countries

19:05

are going to choose energy first and

19:07

climate second. And we should try and

19:09

figure out ways in which that doesn't

19:11

have to be a choice, that

19:13

you could actually get clean energy, which

19:16

works for climate and for the country's

19:18

needs. Yeah. And I'm

19:20

also wary that this is an

19:22

election year for India. So presumably

19:24

some of these pledges are making

19:26

sure that there aren't blackouts to

19:28

harm Modi chances

19:30

at getting reelected. Very

19:33

much so. In the previous two years,

19:35

both 2022 and 2023, we have seen

19:37

that India has hit a new peak

19:39

demand for electricity in the summer, of

19:42

course, because things are getting hotter and

19:44

more people are able to afford air

19:46

conditioning. And so with the election coming

19:48

up, they really want to be very,

19:51

very clear that even as we reach

19:54

a new demand for electricity, this

19:56

time there will be enough coal

19:58

and enough coal supply. to

20:00

ensure there are no blackouts. I'm

20:05

going to move us on to a question

20:07

from our final listener. It's quite different from

20:09

the ones we've heard so far. Take a

20:12

listen. Hi, this is Elena

20:14

from Lithuania. I wanted to know what are

20:16

the carbon footprints of our pets? So

20:19

this is something I've been looking into, but before I

20:21

tell you what I've found out, does anyone here have

20:23

a pet? Hasn't he? I don't,

20:25

but I used to have tortoises as a kid,

20:27

and I still think they're the best pet ever,

20:29

even if they are very slow. Tanzin,

20:32

pet? I used to have

20:34

a cat, but my mum adopted her when I couldn't

20:36

keep her anymore. OK, and Akshat?

20:39

The only pet I had was a fish, and

20:41

whenever I say that, everybody laughs when they

20:43

say, fish can't be pets. Really?

20:46

I think a fish can be a pet.

20:48

I had fish. I also had guinea pigs,

20:50

hamsters. God, you were a farm. And a

20:52

snail. Not all at once, but at various

20:54

points in my childhood. So

20:57

I have to admit, I mean, being quite young, I never

20:59

really thought about their carbon footprint. But when I

21:01

was looking into this, there were lots of

21:03

different ways, obviously, that pets can contribute to

21:05

climate change. But the main thing is

21:08

what they eat. So meat-eating animals, i.e.

21:10

cats and dogs, have the biggest carbon

21:12

footprint versus the veggies, like parrots and

21:14

rabbits, which my producer, Osman, will be

21:17

very pleased about because he's got pet

21:19

rabbits. But the impact doesn't

21:21

just stop there. It also depends on

21:23

the source of the meat. So if

21:26

it's food waste or it's byproduct or

21:28

something we don't eat, like lungs or

21:30

heart, awful, then the carbon footprint is

21:32

much lower of that pet food. But

21:34

if it's not, it's much higher. So

21:36

if you're feeding your pet to our stake,

21:39

then that's probably going to have the highest

21:41

carbon footprint. As for the

21:43

actual numbers, really, really hard to get

21:45

a number. And they're all estimations. But

21:47

the one fact I could find that

21:49

was quite helpful to put it into

21:51

context was the global dry pet food

21:54

industry accounts for around 1% to 3%

21:56

of agriculture's emissions. That

22:00

was a country. It be the sixtieth hi

22:02

I'm missing concerned. Well sit down. The New

22:04

also looks into this and it is. I

22:06

think you'll agree it's really fascinating an you're

22:09

an I thinking about when it struck me

22:11

as I was reading anyway as that the

22:13

idea of cultured. Meat So this is lab

22:15

grown. Meat we take a few cells

22:17

from i'm originally from an animal but

22:19

then basically grow them in the lab

22:21

to make them artificial, meet us at

22:24

the pet food and or looked into

22:26

it and cause this is absolutely people

22:28

are staying for people are setting up

22:30

companies or readiness. yeah absolutely said as

22:32

predictions that by the end of the

22:34

decade this could be cheaper than by

22:36

normal meet. On the course we didn't

22:38

have anywhere near that carbon footprint, the

22:40

water footprint, the land footprint, the the

22:42

issues of either looking after the animals,

22:44

the welfare in we've. Already seen artificial

22:46

meet serve to humans victims in a

22:49

restaurant past year and was he could

22:51

make it for meet that are many

22:53

more place to what pets i would

22:55

wish me as eaten so cats and

22:57

dogs might have eaten might see this

22:59

have a cultured meat originally going from

23:01

mouse cells to make pet food the

23:03

actually might be in a way more

23:05

naturals. And giving them for example which

23:08

they wouldn't normally eaten in the past

23:10

accept. I did taste lab grown meat

23:12

in Cop Twenty Seven for a special

23:14

dining experience. Goods it was. I mean

23:16

it wasn't perfectly like chicken, but it

23:18

was quite close to it. And the

23:20

reason why pet food might be the

23:22

place where lab grown meat could end

23:24

up having it's for solutions is because

23:26

the biggest challenge and growing lab grown

23:28

meat is to give it structure in

23:30

be able to create the kind of

23:32

muscle that would lead to a good

23:35

states whereas Vid. Pet food. What you

23:37

need is mincemeat and that is probably

23:39

the easiest thing to grow in lap.

23:41

Yeah, I mean as space success and

23:43

putting since I'm announcing the game and

23:46

pretty funny express since I mean we

23:48

have a say on the climate question

23:50

made a so all about lab mix

23:52

but it's quite a complicated picture and

23:54

chances that carbon footprint and dependent on

23:56

lots of things like whether these plants.

23:58

Or that gray the meat can use for nearby. energy or

24:00

not. Anyway

24:03

that takes us to the end

24:05

of this week's show. Thank you

24:07

so much to all our guests.

24:09

They were Esme Salad, Akshat Rathi

24:11

and Tamsin Edwards. Keep sending in

24:14

your climate questions and we will

24:16

answer them soon. The email address

24:18

is theclimatequestionatbbc.com. If you

24:20

want to find out more about anything you've

24:22

heard about, links to the shows I've mentioned,

24:25

Esme's story, Akshat's story, check out our show

24:27

notes. All right, see you next time. Bye.

24:39

This is the story of the

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say they knew a very different

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