0:00

This is the comb, an in-depth

0:02

look at one new story from Africa

0:05

every

0:05

week. Podcasts from

0:07

the BBC World Service are supported by

0:09

Advair sizing.

0:13

If saving more and spending less is one of your

0:15

top goals for twenty twenty three, Why are

0:17

you still paying insane amounts of money every

0:19

month for your phone bill? Right now, when

0:22

you switch to mint mobile, you'll get their unlimited

0:24

plan for fifty percent off.

0:26

As the first company to sell premium wireless

0:29

service online only, mint mobile

0:31

lets you order from home and save a ton

0:33

with phone plans starting at just fifteen

0:35

dollars a month. All plans come with unlimited

0:37

talk and text plus high speed data delivered

0:40

on the nation's largest five g network. Cut

0:42

your wireless bill to fifteen bucks a month

0:44

at mint mobile dot com slash

0:46

save. That's mint mobile dot com

0:49

slash save. Hurry. All for instance,

0:51

January

0:51

fifteenth. This episode is brought to you

0:53

by Progressive. Most of you aren't just

0:56

listening right now. You're driving, cleaning,

0:58

and even exercising. But what if you could

1:00

be saving money by switching to Progressive? Drivers

1:03

who save by switching save nearly seven hundred

1:05

dollars on average and auto customers qualify

1:07

for an average of seven discounts. Multitask

1:10

right now, quote today at progressive dot

1:12

com, progressive casualty insurance company

1:14

and affiliate. National average twelve month savings

1:16

of six ninety eight dollars by new customer

1:18

survey we've saved with Progressive between June twenty

1:21

twenty one and May twenty twenty two. Potential savings

1:23

will vary. Discount is not available in all states

1:25

and situations.

1:29

Hi. I'm Kim Chakanesa, and

1:31

this is the comb, a BBC World

1:33

Service original podcast. Each

1:35

week, I comb the continent for stories

1:38

that matter. Online were hashtag

1:40

the com. In

1:47

this episode, not

1:49

guilty. The nightmare scenario

1:51

that feels like it could never happen to

1:53

you. What's it like to be falsely

1:56

accused? To find yourself labeled

1:58

as something you're not, condemn to

2:00

take punishment we know you don't

2:02

deserve. And to have to find

2:04

a way forward for your life. Forever

2:07

changed. This

2:10

is Ishmael's story.

2:13

This is the call. He Need

2:15

the comb. The comb. No.

2:16

Neither comb. The comb.

2:31

My name is Ishmael Gomez. I

2:34

come from Tsumbu village in Desha

2:36

district in Malawi.

2:37

I'm speaking to Ishmael over the phone from

2:40

his home in Desha district in Central

2:42

Malawi. It's an area dominated

2:44

by May's farmland. Currently, cautiously

2:47

green as the rainy season has just

2:49

begun. And Ishmael sat in

2:51

the entrance of his home, a small mad hut

2:53

with a grass batched roof. Ishmael's

2:56

not used to giving interviews, so as

2:58

well as my colleague, Peter, He's also got

3:00

his wife and daughter and the village chief

3:02

close by for moral support.

3:06

Kazuma village is where I was born.

3:09

And I lived here all my life. The

3:11

people here spend their time working

3:13

as

3:13

farmers, praying, people

3:15

like to join groups as a way to better their

3:17

lives.

3:18

What were the values that you lived by?

3:20

What was important to you? I

3:25

was always taught that I should live well with my

3:27

relatives. And also with visitors from

3:30

outside so that they could also appreciate

3:32

Maruyen culture.

3:34

It's a place where everyone knows everyone.

3:37

Where life follows a pattern laid out by

3:39

generations before. Hard

3:41

work, family, free from

3:43

god. Echmail

3:45

had always assumed his spend his whole life

3:47

here. And in nineteen eighty two, he found

3:49

a partner to build his own family

3:51

with. Of

3:54

course, when you grow up,

3:57

your time comes when you know that you need to get

3:59

married. And how did you meet? Our

4:02

villages were closed in Sharra, so

4:05

I used to visit the neighboring village where

4:07

she was, and that's how we met.

4:09

And was it love at first sight? I

4:12

would say it took about two weeks.

4:15

We were chatting, should come to visit

4:17

our village, and I'll also go to our

4:19

village to buy fish from our brothers. That's

4:22

how our love affair

4:23

started. And later on, we

4:25

got married. And what was your life

4:27

like together?

4:31

After we got married, my life was

4:33

very happy. I was a

4:35

simple farmer. After I had finished

4:38

work farming, my wife would make

4:40

me food and give me water for a bath.

4:42

Then after that, I'll go out for

4:44

my other business. I used to sell

4:47

fish at the drinking

4:48

joints. And what was it made

4:50

you most happy most joyful during

4:52

that period?

4:54

And ten minutes ago, what

4:56

made me most happy during that time

4:59

was just working together with my wife.

5:01

Because we both believed in God.

5:04

We knew that God wants people to love

5:06

each

5:06

other. So I was happy because

5:09

we used to praise God every day.

5:13

Ishmael had everything in place that he needed

5:15

for a good life for himself, his

5:17

wife, and their

5:18

children. But he had other aspirations

5:21

as well. I

5:25

was hoping to get some tools for carpentry

5:27

because I'd claimed the cabinetry using

5:30

my homemade equipment. I was hoping

5:32

that with my farming and fish business

5:34

combined, I could afford proper tools

5:36

from a

5:37

shop. That was my dream.

5:39

And what about the police or justice

5:41

system? Did you have any encounters

5:43

with them? Growing

5:46

up, I saw the police, but I never

5:49

knew what their job was. You'd

5:51

see them around, but I didn't really understand

5:53

what they did. I just knew they were

5:55

there to protect my own

5:56

citizens. That's how I viewed them.

5:59

So in terms of your feelings towards them,

6:02

how would you describe how you felt?

6:06

At the time, I respected the

6:08

police because I thought they had an important

6:11

job protecting the lives of civilians.

6:15

This comfortable life which Ishmael had

6:17

built for himself and his family felt

6:19

like it was set forever, but

6:22

In two thousand and four, everything

6:25

changed. Well

6:30

remembers his last day of normality and

6:32

the kind of detail that suggests someone

6:34

who's retold it over and

6:36

over. As usual, his day

6:38

had started with working in the garden.

6:44

I came from farming my garden, got

6:47

home, took a bath, then my

6:49

wife served me my meal, then

6:51

I went to the drinking joint to sell my fish,

6:54

I'll circle the Miranda to sales. Someone

6:57

was selling the local chain cash flow,

6:59

so I booked some of that and then I

7:02

just stayed there drinking. Then

7:04

chief gizimbo came with his younger

7:06

brother. They sat as well.

7:08

Then later, Folias and our nephew,

7:11

Lucas, joined us. It

7:14

was a family group, Ishmael's

7:17

uncles, including the chief is Kazanfolias,

7:20

and his nephew Lucas, all

7:22

relaxing together.

7:26

We drank until it was time to go.

7:28

The sun was setting. It was around

7:30

half past seven. Everyone was

7:32

leaving to go back to their homes. So

7:35

I packed up the fish I was selling to

7:37

go home as well. As I rode

7:39

home, Fortier's father was behind

7:42

me. We were going in the same direction

7:44

because Foyer's father had to

7:46

go past my house on the way to his.

7:49

So I got home dressed and then

7:51

he carried on to his house. Everyone

7:53

went home and slept.

8:10

In the morning, It was time for

8:12

everyone to go to our guidance again.

8:15

But before I could leave the house and

8:17

eat to chief jisunghu, visited

8:19

me. He said, hello.

8:21

How did you go yesterday when you went out drinking

8:24

with Foliers? I told him

8:26

that everything was okay. Everyone

8:28

just went home to their houses, and

8:31

then he said to me, what

8:33

I wanted to tell you is that your brother,

8:35

who you were with, has been found dead.

8:39

Foliess, Ishmael's cousin, the child of

8:42

his mother's younger sister. The close

8:44

relative who he had been sat on the veranda

8:46

drinking with just a few hours earlier

8:48

was dead. That

8:50

wasn't He

8:52

said investigations show

8:54

that you were the last one

8:56

seen with him.

9:05

We grew up together. We loved each

9:07

other ever since we were young. We

9:09

never carried. We used to work

9:12

together to help the chief resolving

9:14

really disputes. Actually, the

9:16

chief was teaching us abroad. Knowing

9:18

that in one day passed the leadership amounted

9:21

to us.

9:23

For Israel, it was crazy to think

9:25

that anyone would consider that he

9:27

might have wanted to harm the man who he considered

9:29

a brother who he'd never fought

9:31

with, but an investigation had

9:33

now begun. Of Ishmael is one

9:35

of the suspects. The

9:40

matter was taken to CHIEF GIPEN, who

9:43

was in charge of security in the village.

9:45

He called a meeting of all young men in

9:47

the village to investigate what had

9:49

happened. But when he called

9:51

us, there was one person missing.

9:53

It was my sister's son, Peter Deisan.

9:56

People were sent to look for him and they

9:58

found him sleeping

9:59

even though the sun was ready up.

10:02

So then he was brought to the meeting

10:04

and the police were informed. The police

10:06

went to the scene where my brother Folias was

10:08

killed. They found some footsteps

10:10

at the scene. So they followed them

10:12

and they laid right to the doorsteps of

10:14

my to Peter design. Susan,

10:18

the police said that all the young

10:20

men in village must come to the police station

10:23

and explain what they knew about what happened.

10:26

So we were all put in a vehicle and

10:28

take into an empty police station where

10:30

we were pressured. Me know for Fusa.

10:38

Ishmael says he was questioned about his movements

10:40

the day before. Explained how he'd

10:42

taken fish to sell the drinking joint,

10:44

how he'd drunk with Folias and the others

10:46

until the joint closed. Then

10:48

packed up as fish and walked home with Phrygian's

10:51

father. He knew Phrygian's father

10:53

had seen him reaching home. But if Ishmael

10:55

had thought that this was going to be a simple matter

10:58

of answering the questions and then coming back

11:00

home, he was mistaken. He

11:03

and the other men were kept to the police station

11:06

for two weeks.

11:11

At the police station, it was

11:13

really hard. Every day,

11:15

people have been beaten. The thing

11:17

that gave me hope was that I wasn't

11:19

being beaten

11:20

myself. They were just asking me

11:22

questions. Despite being held for so

11:24

long, ishmael was reassured he

11:26

knew that he'd been witnessed arriving home that

11:28

night. And his nephew, Petilizani, seemed

11:31

like the clear suspect. It had literally

11:33

been footprints leading from the murder scene

11:35

to his house. But at

11:37

the start of the second week, Ishmael was

11:39

allowed to break outside with the other men

11:42

and his other nephew Lucas sort

11:44

him out with a devastating bit of

11:46

information.

11:51

My nephew Lucas told me what

11:54

was being planned behind the scenes. He

11:56

said to me, mister Bomey, they're

11:58

plotting to implicate you. They

12:00

say if the young man goes to prison alone,

12:03

you will be killed because when one

12:05

person kills another person, they are

12:07

killed. So he must

12:09

insist he was not alone. He must

12:12

implicate me as well, even though

12:14

it wasn't like that.

12:15

So according to Lucas, Bitalizani

12:18

knew he would be found guilty for the murder,

12:20

but he thought that seeing someone else had

12:23

been involved alongside him would mean he would

12:25

get a more lenient

12:26

sentence. He had chosen Ishmael

12:28

as that second person.

12:33

I was devastated. I stopped

12:35

eating because I was eating so much.

12:37

Sure enough, the next day,

12:39

of the eight men who have been brought to the police

12:42

station together, all were released except

12:44

for Bittelizani and Ishmael. For

12:46

Ishmael, this could only mean one

12:48

thing. He had the horrifying realization

12:51

that after waiting for the police investigation to

12:54

play out, assuming it would conclude that he

12:56

wasn't involved. The opposite had

12:58

happened. Whatever investigation had

13:00

occurred, the conclusion they reached was that

13:02

he and Petilizoni were both the

13:04

murderous. On

13:08

the seventh of September two thousand and five,

13:10

the case went to court. Ishmael

13:12

was utterly unprepared. He

13:14

says he'd had no opportunity to meet with

13:16

his lawyer before the trial. And the family

13:18

members who'd been present at night and could've spoken

13:21

up in Ishmael's defense when presented

13:23

to testify. Ishmael could only

13:25

watch on as his nephew Petiglizzani

13:28

made his own confession until the court

13:30

the lie that Ishmael had been as a

13:32

compass. And that wasn't

13:34

all. The police had something to present in

13:36

court which seemed to confirm Ishmael's involvement.

13:39

Assigned confession. The

13:45

police said that you confessed to killing

13:47

your cousin. Did you

13:50

think you made a confession? I mean, how did

13:52

that come about?

13:56

What I was told was I was signing just

13:58

to confirm what my name was and

14:00

whether I was able to

14:02

write, I didn't know it was

14:04

going to be used against me in the future.

14:06

Looking back now, Ishmael says he understands

14:09

how this apparent sign confession had come

14:11

about. He says it happened after

14:13

a week and a half from custody during which he

14:15

had been beaten and deprived of food.

14:17

So when he was presented with a piece of

14:19

paper and told to sign it, he did.

14:22

But ishmael was

14:23

illiterate. He says he had no idea

14:26

what the paper said. I

14:30

didn't have any reason to hide my name.

14:33

So I wrote down my name later

14:35

by later. It wasn't a signature

14:38

because I don't have a signature. I

14:40

write my name letter by

14:42

letter. I didn't know that this was

14:44

going to be used for something officer later

14:46

on.

14:47

Of the twelfth jurors at trial, ten

14:50

voted to find ishmael guilty. High

14:53

court bids It was in

14:55

the high court that the judge pronounced

14:58

the death sentence.

15:02

A death sentence. At

15:04

the time, Milanan courts gave the death

15:06

sentence automatically in cases of murder.

15:09

In reality, no executions have actually

15:11

been carried out since nineteen ninety two. But

15:13

this temporary ban called a moratorium wasn't

15:16

official. A human rights lawyer

15:18

say was never key explained to the death

15:20

row inmates. So Ishmael was

15:22

put on death row. He slept just

15:24

meters away from the gallows and had to live

15:26

with the knowledge that executions might resume

15:29

at any time. As best case

15:31

scenario, he was expected to spend

15:33

the rest of his life in prison without

15:35

parole. Switzerland

15:39

had followed his plan. He pleaded guilty

15:41

to manslaughter, meaning he got a less severe

15:43

punishment. He was given regular prison

15:45

sentence instead. While Ishmael went

15:47

to death row

15:48

alone. Ishmael felt

15:50

totally defeated. When

15:55

I heard the sentence, it hurt.

15:57

I heard I was going to be harmed. I

16:00

was thinking too

16:01

much. For three days, I

16:03

didn't eat. On the fourth day a

16:05

prison warden intervened. But for

16:07

look, a prison warden said

16:09

to me that you need to eat so that

16:12

your body stays strong and ready.

16:14

If you stop eating, your body will

16:16

be unwear. If it is God's

16:18

wish to save

16:19

you, he will save you

16:21

You need to be ready when the time comes.

16:23

This was the reminder Ishmael

16:26

needed. But in order to get the justice

16:28

he so badly wanted, he needed

16:30

to stay

16:30

alive. To fight for it.

16:32

So I started eating again.

16:34

So Ishmael settled into his new reality.

16:37

Ishmael doesn't speak much about his time incarcerated.

16:40

But the prison had been condemned as

16:42

unfit for human habitation by

16:44

the prison's inspectorate nearly ten years

16:47

before Ishmael arrived. And was never

16:49

updated or modified in the meantime.

16:52

Conditions on death row were reported to

16:54

be especially bad with each fell

16:56

just eight by six feet. Shared

16:58

by four prisoners. The cells were empty

17:00

except for a bucket and two blankets

17:03

per prisoner. And then prisoners like

17:05

Ishmael were separated from rest of their inmates.

17:07

Excluded from all activities, including

17:10

shared services. Ishmael's

17:12

health declined and he frequently

17:14

suffered from malaria. But as the days

17:16

passed by and he looked ahead to the rest of his

17:18

life locked up, by far the hardest

17:20

thing for Ishmael was letting go of his

17:23

life on the outside. He knew that his

17:25

wife and his four children would all be

17:27

struggling having lost their primary breadwinner.

17:33

Prison life is very difficult. On

17:36

the outside, you can work

17:38

and support your children. But

17:40

in prison, you no longer

17:42

have that chance. It

17:45

bothered me. Who

17:47

is taking care of my children now? What

17:50

kind of struggles are they going through? I

17:54

used to be troubled thinking about that.

18:01

Ishmael was being held in the zomba more

18:03

than three hours away from data district.

18:05

And his family couldn't often afford the journey

18:07

to the prison. There was no access to

18:09

phone calls. And since he'd never learned

18:11

to read or write, he can keep contact through

18:14

letters. As the US passed by,

18:16

emails finally moved on. All

18:22

your plans are ruined. You're

18:25

not doing anything. I

18:27

just worry every day.

18:30

It made my blood pressure go

18:32

up. I would ask

18:35

myself, is this

18:37

what God wanted me to do? What

18:40

future do I have now?

18:50

Days became weeks, became months,

18:52

became years. Ishmael had

18:54

always had faith but in prison his relationship

18:56

with God became one of the most significant forces

18:59

keeping him going. An American woman

19:01

volunteering in the prison encouraged him

19:03

to keep faith, and even to find forgiveness

19:06

for his nephew who was serving his sentence

19:08

in the same prison.

19:12

He used to say, you shouldn't keep your grudge

19:14

against the person who implicated you.

19:16

You should chat with him. God

19:18

will serve you. So I was doing exactly

19:21

that. I chatted with him. We

19:23

were in different parts of the prison, but

19:25

I would call for him and we would chat.

19:28

I still thought of him as a relative. I

19:31

knew he didn't really want to implicate me,

19:33

but he thought that he had no choice.

19:36

So I forgive

19:38

him. Could you find any joy

19:40

in prison life? When

19:43

I was in the prison, I never found anything

19:46

good. Nothing in prison is joyful.

19:48

Obviously, prison is going to be a challenge

19:51

for anyone. But in

19:53

your case, on top of all the other

19:55

hardships, You also had to live

19:57

with injustice that you were actually

20:00

innocent. Did that not make life harder

20:02

for you? When

20:05

I was in prison, although I was angry,

20:08

I tried hard to stay calm so

20:10

that I could still have a future the

20:12

aim was to show good behavior, not

20:15

to have fights or quarrels with anyone.

20:17

I was hoping that the bosses in the

20:19

prison would escort me nicely

20:21

court one day. And were

20:23

you still holding on to the hope that

20:26

your name would be cleared? I

20:30

knew that they would eventually come, where

20:32

I would be clear. I had dreams

20:34

that showed me that there were good

20:36

things in my

20:37

future, so I always had lot.

20:39

In twenty fifteen,

20:42

more than a decade after he first walked

20:44

through the doors of the prison, things suddenly

20:46

changed again. You

20:49

and rights lawyers came and they were reviewing cases

20:51

like ishmael where they thought they might be a

20:53

miscarriage of justice. When

20:55

they spoke to Ishmael's nephew, Vitilizani

20:58

finally admitted that he had falsely accused

21:00

Ishmael, his uncle, of being jointly responsible

21:03

for the murder. Ishmael heard the

21:05

news from Pichin Isani himself.

21:09

He finished his meeting with a white man,

21:12

and he came straight to explain it to me.

21:14

He said he told the white man about how

21:16

he had been misled at the time to implicate

21:19

me. He said he wanted to wish me

21:21

a best for when I went over. So

21:23

that God would help God and I would

21:26

be

21:26

free. And what was your reaction to

21:29

hearing your nephew

21:31

confessed to you after all this time.

21:36

When I hit, I was very

21:39

happy. I knew God wants

21:41

us to be forgiving when someone does

21:43

something wrong. I was so

21:45

happy. I knew his confession would

21:47

help me when I went back to court.

21:54

It had been ten years since he'd been found guilty

21:56

and nearly twelve and a half years of incarceration,

21:59

including the time before his trial.

22:02

Twelve and a half years in which ismail

22:04

had been locked up being painfully

22:06

separated from his family, endured

22:09

the dangers of physical hardships and

22:11

psychological agonies of life on

22:13

death row, and watches all dreams

22:15

of expanding his businesses and building a

22:17

better future with her and die.

22:19

But now after all that, Bittelizani

22:22

was finally speaking the truth.

22:29

So he didn't need to confess. He

22:31

could have just kept quiet. Do you know why

22:34

it was he chose to tell the truth at that

22:36

particular time?

22:39

I think he reflected on his life

22:42

and on his relationship with me as his

22:44

uncle. And he decided to

22:46

confess, not just to the world,

22:48

but also to God. He wanted God's

22:50

forgiveness. So

22:54

the case was finally being re examined.

22:56

An Ishmael had reason to hope again.

22:59

Is difficult to imagine the intensity of

23:01

emotions, hope but not yet

23:03

certainty after such a long

23:05

time. As he waited for his re sentencing

23:08

hearing, Ishmael experienced vivid

23:10

dreams.

23:18

I was in a tall building in the prison

23:21

with a window far away right at the

23:23

top. At around midnight, I

23:25

had a dream I

23:28

saw someone at the window. I removed

23:30

the blanket from my head to see. The

23:34

person was black. Only

23:36

his hand came through the window, and

23:38

he was waving by by to me. I

23:41

was filled with fear because

23:43

I had never had a dream like that

23:45

before. I hid my face in the

23:47

basket. In

23:51

the morning, I hear that I'll be

23:53

going to court the next day. I

23:55

was so happy I bit

23:58

farewell to my phrase, and they were wishing

24:00

me well with my guests. They

24:02

know my ban The

24:06

prison authority has even organized the football

24:08

match for the prisoners to stay a blade

24:10

without going to

24:11

court. And for everyone to wish me

24:13

good luck for getting the least.

24:17

After the football match, I went back

24:19

to sleep and I had another dream.

24:21

I was going somewhere, but there was a person

24:24

in a black robe walking in front

24:26

of me in the

24:27

clouds. Just when I was about to

24:29

arrive wherever I was going, the person

24:31

disappeared and then I woke up.

24:36

When the day finally came, some things

24:38

must have been horribly familiar. They

24:40

imposing courtroom lawyers discussing

24:42

his fate while Ishma himself sat silently.

24:44

But this time, it was different. This time,

24:47

he knew the lawyers. He had spoken to them before.

24:49

And he knew they were on his side, and he

24:51

knew that his nephew wasn't lying anymore.

24:54

There was a statement from Petilizoni himself

24:56

submitted to the court of Ishmael sentencing

24:58

or

24:58

hearing. Including the crucial

25:01

admission. Ishmael

25:03

Gourmet was not present on

25:06

the evening of eleventh January two thousand

25:08

and when I struck and

25:10

killed Foliasi, Jibasi.

25:15

Ishmael Gourmet is

25:17

innocent.

25:21

The court was told that Pittiglizzani had become

25:23

more religious since his incarceration. And

25:26

he felt terrible about falsely implicating

25:28

his uncle because God knows

25:30

I've sinned. And so

25:32

this time when the proceedings finished, Ishmael's

25:35

life had been forever changed again.

25:41

What I had was the Jack said, ishmael

25:43

Gourmet We see no reason for arresting

25:45

him. He's free. He can live

25:48

using any exit of his choice.

25:52

And the lures or put their

25:54

books down, and that was the end.

26:00

That was the end. The

26:02

lawyers who had won him his freedom drove Ishmael

26:05

back to the prison for the last time to collect

26:07

his belongings. He picked up some clothes

26:09

and some leaflets. He's only physical

26:11

souvenirs from the last decade of his life,

26:14

and he walked out of the prison for the last

26:16

time. Ishmael was driven

26:18

as far as a trading center near his

26:20

village, and the next day was given money

26:22

for a bicycle taxi to take him home.

26:26

They say that shouldn't walk because my legs have

26:28

forgotten how to walk. They

26:30

say I should take advice of what that means.

26:32

But I say I want to walk.

26:35

I want to stretch my legs. So

26:37

I used the taxi money to buy

26:39

sugar

26:40

cane. And

26:42

I walked. Even

26:45

that walk home was full of the signs

26:47

of how the world had kept going,

26:49

while Ishmael was locked away, It was

26:51

new infrastructure, and some of the

26:53

paths he was used to were now closed.

26:56

Things were so different. Ishmael couldn't

26:58

be sure he was going the right way.

27:04

I asked around for directions. Please,

27:08

how do I get which is Zombu? They

27:10

told me, it's just after

27:12

those houses. Finally,

27:16

I got here. What

27:19

was it like to finally be free?

27:24

When I came out of prison, it felt

27:27

very good. When I worked,

27:29

I was free and haper like before.

27:32

Even in the surrounding villages, people

27:34

were happy to see me. They would

27:36

say, hello. Hello. It

27:39

was like a new baby. Or someone

27:41

arisen from the dead. So

27:45

it had finally happened. Vindication,

27:49

freedom, But what was freedom now?

27:51

After ten years separated from his home

27:53

and his loved ones. Ishmael couldn't

27:55

return to the same life he'd left behind. His

27:58

wife, his first love we'd built his

28:00

future with and moved on. Ishmael

28:02

faced big questions now about the shape of

28:04

his new life after prison. But first,

28:06

he just wanted to enjoy some of the simple

28:08

luxuries that he'd been denied.

28:17

One of the things I missed most that I

28:19

couldn't get in prison was tea. Actually,

28:22

It was like I had to learn to drink tea again.

28:25

I couldn't finish a cup of tea at first,

28:27

but now I can do it again and I

28:29

can finish a cup of

28:30

tea. Can

28:32

I ask him why you couldn't finish it? What what

28:34

was it about the cup of tea? I

28:39

don't know, but maybe my I'm

28:42

glad now I'm able to enjoy tea

28:45

again.

28:48

Life is very different for Ishmael

28:50

now. He's married again and

28:52

is happy to be back among his neighbor's

28:54

and extended family. His dream of

28:56

turning his carpenter into a proper business

28:59

is long gone. But having the freedom

29:01

to farm again is a gift enough

29:03

for now.

29:07

Ishmael, I knew that your faith in

29:09

God meant that forgiveness has always

29:12

been your first priority. But

29:14

we can't underestimate the wrong that he

29:16

suffered. We each only get one

29:18

life and ten years of your life

29:20

was stolen from you. Has

29:23

forgiveness been a challenge.

29:31

Now, I think I've always been

29:33

a forgiving person even since I

29:36

was young. Not

29:38

returning evil with evil. Is something

29:40

that I learned from a young age. I grew

29:43

up with it because of believing

29:45

in the Word of God. So I

29:47

teach children and my relatives that

29:49

they should also lend to forgive. When

29:53

something wrong happens, I

29:55

say it must endure to be angry.

29:58

They must forgive the person who wronged

30:00

them. So when you look back

30:02

at what happened to you, you don't

30:04

have any feelings of anger or resentment

30:07

about how your life was changed and

30:09

then fairness of how it was changed by

30:11

something that was not your fault.

30:17

It's all behind me now. I don't want

30:19

to dwell on the past. The case has

30:21

been concluded, and I'm happy in

30:24

my heart that it is all closed. I

30:26

am free to check with anyone, relatives

30:29

or strangers. I

30:32

don't worry about the past now. I

30:35

just want to move forward.

30:44

Thank you for listening to this episode. Next

30:46

week on the comb. I couldn't

30:48

really say to her. This is the

30:50

type of teaching that we are receiving there

30:53

because I know she would have said,

30:55

no. This is a cult. To what I've

30:57

definitely said, get out, but then

31:00

I wouldn't have. So that cost

31:02

if you drift out with our relationship

31:05

with just all the secretiveness that was

31:07

happening.

31:09

This episode was produced by Mary Goodheart

31:12

and me Kim Chakaneta. The

31:14

sound design was by Marco Oriontera. Stuart

31:16

Harling Drake is our studio manager, and

31:19

Pierre's Lynch is our editor. Gabriel

31:21

Camelo, with the voice of Ishmael, and

31:23

Chaquena Haribo as the voice of Bitti

31:25

Mizani. Special thanks to Peter

31:27

Jaguar and to the staff at Repreve for their

31:29

help. Of this episode.

31:40

What do you do when no one else is watching?

31:42

What do you do that makes you happy for no reason

31:45

at all? What are you obsessed with?

31:47

I'm Leslie Arphan, and I'm a writer,

31:49

but I'm also a dancer, a painter,

31:52

a viper, a dollhouse enthusiast,

31:54

and basically just an overall hobbyist.

31:57

My podcast filling the void is all

31:59

about what other people are fanatically into.

32:02

You talk about hobbies even if you don't

32:04

have one. Listen to filling

32:06

the void on Tuesdays on the Aerios network

32:09

and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

32:13

On rodents, that is Brian Cox.

32:16

My favorite topic we've covered recently

32:18

on the em minimum cage is black holes.

32:20

It turns out that it's the one that's listened

32:22

to Moe.

32:23

Because people keep rewinding it.

32:25

I love the one that we made about spiders because

32:27

we had guests that were just so passionate

32:29

about the subject and you got scared when

32:31

that spider came out, that little squeal

32:33

was beautiful.

32:34

There's a spider running wild in

32:36

Australia. It is one of the most exciting episodes

32:38

we've ever done, be a bit of monkey cake. Listen wherever

32:40

you get your BBC podcasts.