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1:55

laughstravaganza. further

2:00

ado, here is the

2:02

Weekly Zeitgeist. We

2:05

have one of our favorite

2:07

guests of all time, one of the listeners favorite

2:09

guests of all time. This is a man who,

2:13

you know, has really inspired

2:15

the imaginations of people across the country with

2:17

his YouTube searches and his niche interests. And

2:20

obviously, his love of cold

2:22

brew. The poetry window will

2:24

consider that shit open because we

2:27

are welcoming in our third seat

2:29

our guest today, Mr. Chris Crofton.

2:32

Hey, what's up,

2:34

Chris. Welcome to the

2:37

Chris Crofton Daily Zeitgeist.

2:39

Oh, okay. Such a

2:41

lovely place. Such a

2:43

lovely place. I've been through the desert

2:45

on a horse named Chris Crofton. It

2:47

felt good to be out of the

2:49

Daily Zeitgeist. Oh, I love that Neil

2:51

Young track. Those AKA's brought to you

2:53

by me. Damn. Wow. The

2:58

Eagles and then Neil Young. I know.

3:01

I forgot about that. Two champions of

3:03

the white community. Last

3:05

time. Last time I did not know

3:07

that song. I didn't know. I thought Horse

3:11

With No Name was a Neil Young song, but

3:13

it's not. It's some dude who is trying to

3:16

be like Neil. I guess what? What?

3:18

What? Yeah. Some dude's trying to sound like

3:20

Neil Young.

3:22

Yeah. America. And

3:24

then you recognize obviously part of Jaquis'

3:27

AKA Not Like Us because like I

3:29

was quizzing you before, you have

3:31

intersected with the Kendrick Lamar beef ending

3:34

track Not Like Us. Yeah.

3:36

And I cannot. I can't believe

3:38

I'm just humbled as a white man to know

3:40

about it. Yeah. Well, you

3:42

know, and it's just a testament to

3:45

how far that is gone that a

3:47

man my age of my complexion knows

3:50

about this beef. Chris, was it like

3:53

a thing where you're like, what? Why does everybody keep

3:55

talking about minors and stuff? The fuck is going on?

3:57

And then someone broke it down or you just. kind

4:00

of naturally figured it out or were you

4:02

on YouTube enough that you figured it out?

4:04

I just fucking I'm online. Yeah. Way too

4:06

much and so I know about a little

4:09

bit about Drake being accused of that sort

4:11

of stuff and then I but I didn't

4:13

know I mean

4:15

obviously and I know Kendrick Lamar a little

4:17

bit but so I don't exactly

4:19

know. I don't know. I don't mean

4:21

to put you on the spot. I've heard the song.

4:23

I've heard the song. I just don't know exactly what

4:25

is going on or. Yeah that's fine. But I think

4:27

that as far as I can tell it was a

4:30

big win for Kendrick. Yeah. Yeah.

4:33

And a big loss for Drake. Yeah. Yeah.

4:36

But I think he'll be back because Drake's

4:38

like Avengers movies for the music industry. Like

4:40

they need they need him to generate

4:43

hits. But we'll see. The

4:45

brand is pretty fucked up though at the moment.

4:47

So I mean I say this like Drake is

4:49

gonna sell records. Yeah. Yeah.

4:52

When he makes a song is and especially if

4:54

it's a hit is gonna get radio play. But

4:58

he's got in the rap community. Yeah. That

5:00

nigga is cool. Yeah. It's he

5:03

is cool. People will not look at it forever. Yeah.

5:06

People are not looking at it. He will be viewed as like. All

5:08

right. So like hip hop.

5:10

Right. For sure. For

5:13

sure. Capital H. Hip

5:15

hop fans. Exactly. What

5:17

is something from your search histories that's

5:19

revealing about who you are. Alex you

5:21

want to kick us off. Oh

5:24

gosh. Okay. The thing is

5:26

I don't think so

5:29

I use Duck Duck Go. And so it

5:31

doesn't actually keep the search history. And

5:33

if I actually look at my Google history it's

5:35

actually going to be really shameful. It's gonna be

5:38

me like searching my own name

5:40

to see if people are

5:42

like shit talking me online. No

5:44

this isn't just how we tell if someone's

5:46

honest as if they actually give that answer

5:48

or like okay so yeah you actually search

5:50

yourself. Yeah. I think the last

5:53

thing I actually searched was like queer

5:55

barbers in the Bay Area because I haven't

5:57

had a haircut in like a year. And

6:00

I think I need to turn up or

6:03

get air out the

6:05

sides of my head for pride month.

6:08

So that's the last thing I searched.

6:12

What are you going? You're going full shaved on

6:14

the sides or? I think maybe trim it a

6:16

little bit and trim it up the back and

6:18

bring out the curls a little bit. So

6:21

love it. Yeah. On board. I

6:23

wish I could bring out my curls. You've got a few more days in pride month

6:25

to get that done. I know. Exactly. In

6:27

July, you're like,

6:29

you do discounts? You discounts?

6:33

It's like after Valentine's Day. Do

6:36

I get an undercut at 50% off now? Right.

6:38

Exactly. Emily,

6:40

how about you? What's something from your search history? So

6:43

forgive the poor pronunciation of this and

6:45

the rest of the story because Spanish

6:47

is not one of my languages, but

6:49

champurado. Oh, yeah. Is something I

6:51

searched in. Yeah. So I was in

6:53

Mexico City for a conference last week. And at

6:56

one of the coffee breaks, they had coffee and

6:58

decaf coffee. And then they had champurado

7:00

con chocolate or Kenya. And

7:04

you're kind of telling it on the Spanish

7:06

pronunciation by the way. Don't don't mean to

7:08

give us that, but what do you see

7:10

when you see that? Champurado, Mexican hot chocolate.

7:13

All right. So yeah, you're literally reading

7:15

the Google results. So

7:19

the the labels all had like translations into

7:22

English. And so it was champurado with Oaxacan

7:24

chocolate. Yeah. Got that. What's champurado? And

7:27

as I look it up, because I want to know what

7:29

I'm consuming before I consume it. And it's basically a

7:32

corn flour based thick drink. So

7:35

like chocolate corn soup, it was

7:37

amazing. Chocolate corn soup. You

7:39

had me until chocolate corn soup.

7:43

The corn is just a thickening.

7:46

Thickening. Yeah. Thick

7:48

chocolate drink. Yeah. The chocolate drink.

7:50

With a slight corn flavor. Like think

7:52

corn tortilla, not par on the cob.

7:54

Yeah. Yeah. Ooh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds

7:56

amazing. It was really

7:58

good. I love some corn flavor. in

8:00

a chocolate bar? Yeah, so corn chocolate.

8:02

There you go. You gotta

8:05

arrive in your own way as to why that feels

8:07

to you. I like corn flakes. So I'm back on

8:09

board with the corn chocolate. It was

8:11

really good. And just awesome that it was there. Like,

8:13

you know, the coffee breaks had like the Mexican sweet

8:16

breads and stuff like that, but otherwise it was pretty

8:18

standard like coffee break stuff. And then all of a

8:20

sudden there's this wonderful mystery drink. Yeah. One

8:22

of the big urns. It was lovely. That sounds great.

8:24

What is something you think is underrated, Emily? I

8:28

think Seattle's weather is underrated. Okay.

8:31

Yeah. Everyone makes fun of our weather and

8:33

like, you know, fine, believe that we don't need lots of

8:36

people coming here. And it's true. It gets dark in the

8:38

winter, but like almost any day

8:40

you can be outside and you are not

8:42

in physical danger because you are outside. I

8:45

guess that's, that's, I mean, if you're

8:47

going for, yeah, that's interesting. But I

8:50

mean, it's the, I mean, the winters are

8:52

just so punishing though. It's so gray. It's

8:55

dark, but the weather. It's dark. It's

8:57

not going to kill you. It

9:00

looks, it looks like shit, but

9:02

experientially not bad for you. I

9:04

mean, I, yeah, I know. It's,

9:06

when does like, it

9:08

doesn't get all gloomy. I imagine in the

9:10

summer, right? You have wonderful blue skies and

9:12

you can enjoy the. The summers are gorgeous.

9:15

Yeah, summer's nice. Fire season aside. Right. But

9:18

yeah, from sort of mid-October to

9:20

early January, it can be pretty like,

9:22

it's gray. And so like when

9:24

the sun is technically above the horizon, it's

9:26

a little hard to tell. Yeah, right. Right.

9:29

So, but you know, compared to like

9:31

Chicago, where you have maybe four

9:33

livable weeks a year between the too hot and

9:35

the too cold. Wow. Wow. Don't

9:38

do that. Cause my thing was going to be Chicago. Cause I

9:40

was just there. And I was

9:42

going to say my answer was going to

9:44

be that Chicago is the

9:46

best American city. I

9:49

stand on this like 100%. For

9:53

two weeks out of the year. That's very true.

9:55

Absolutely not true. No, I'll

9:57

even deal. I'll even deal with the winter. I'll

10:00

deal with the winter. I mean if I

10:02

okay, I'll be honest if I didn't

10:05

you know if the weather in Chicago If the

10:07

if I could bring Bay Area weather to

10:09

Chicago, I would live in

10:11

Chicago I mean, there's other reasons but

10:13

I mean it's it's look

10:16

the vibes immaculate street

10:18

festivals the neighborhoods It's

10:22

the one place that's probably the food and

10:24

still comparatively affordable compared

10:27

to the coast's Radical

10:30

history, you know

10:32

just you know, some of the best

10:34

politics. Yeah, you know, I I

10:36

would say fugitive there Yeah,

10:38

they shot. What did they shoot

10:40

there the fugitive? Oh, I

10:43

did. That's a deep cut Yeah, I mean

10:45

they I think they've shot a lot of Batman

10:47

movies there because you know the iconic kind of

10:50

Lower Wacker Drive and they call it

10:53

right them and it's yeah. Yeah, that's

10:55

pretty cool. Great city crappy

10:57

weather Right. Well, you're gonna

10:59

dump on weather. So everyone makes fun of Seattle's weather

11:03

Honestly Emily, this is

11:05

a hot take I'd rather take Chicago's weather

11:08

than Seattle's weather.

11:10

Wow, I can't I can't do gray

11:12

I can do Crossfire

11:15

I can do This

11:20

is why I say like don't move to Seattle if

11:23

you can't handle our weather like the people who move

11:25

here and then complain What you expect yeah, like

11:27

all of this what they say is true

11:29

about it being great like I'd expect you

11:31

to be that great What

11:38

is something you think is overrated I'm

11:40

going Tesla right now y'all What

11:44

happens try to I finally

11:46

like rode in a Tesla and really paid

11:48

attention to the feeling of riding in a

11:50

Tesla car And I gotta say

11:52

if you're gonna pay that much money for a car

11:56

It's got to not feel like a weird

11:58

golf cart that doesn't have any smooth

12:00

ride. It sucks. It is not a

12:03

smooth ride. I would much rather be in

12:05

a 1998 Buick LaSaber

12:08

if I want a smooth ride, but

12:10

those cars suck to ride in. I'm

12:12

saying they're overrated. I remember the

12:14

first time I got in when I was so

12:17

underwhelmed. It was weird.

12:19

I had built up Teslas in my

12:21

mind fucking crazy. And I remember someone

12:23

I knew as a partner drove

12:26

one and picked us up to go somewhere. And

12:28

first I fucking embarrassed myself because I know the

12:30

fucking door handle works. Yeah, you can't get it.

12:33

I was like, I was like, rubbing it. The

12:35

guys are going to push it and

12:37

then it comes out. I was like, all right. And

12:39

then I was immediately like, man, fuck this door handle.

12:41

And then I got in and then like everything kind

12:43

of felt like, like not substantial.

12:45

Like when I pulled the door thing,

12:47

I was like, is this like just

12:49

PVC pipe? Like that they wrapped in

12:51

synthetic leather? Everything feels

12:54

very just, yeah, not substantial.

12:57

Transitory something like they're just you feel

12:59

like, yes, it's fast. And if

13:01

it goes too fast, the car might just kind of like fall

13:03

apart around you. Like a Cybertruck where the

13:05

paneling will just turn into an air fin and

13:08

bend backwards on a windshield. I feel like we

13:10

don't even need to talk about those. It's just

13:12

like, you know, if you drive a Cybertruck. That's

13:14

my honestly, that's like my favorite new, like I

13:17

was talking about this on the show the other

13:19

day. My new favorite like form

13:21

of schadenfreude is watching the people with their

13:23

Cybertruck to be like, I can't, the fuck

13:25

is wrong with my car? My steering wheel

13:27

looks like a little Batmobile thing. Like my

13:29

insurance company won't insure it. I

13:31

think it's actually fully worthwhile to like,

13:33

my new thing with Cybertrucks is if

13:35

I see one, I actually turn and

13:38

point and laugh and see, and

13:40

see if I can ever get the person to like be like,

13:42

Hey man, where are you laughing at? Yeah,

13:44

well, yeah, it is pretty cool.

13:46

Why are you convulsing? I don't

13:48

know. I don't know. And that,

13:50

you know, obviously the Elon thing is, is, is

13:52

hard to swallow. And I did, there was a

13:55

time when I was like, yeah, Evie is so

13:57

cool. And now I'm just like, give us a

13:59

train. Somebody give us a train.

14:01

Somebody give us a fast, cool train, like they

14:03

have in Europe or Japan or whatever, so that

14:06

I can go somewhere and not have to drive,

14:08

and also not have my car drive me. I

14:10

don't really want that either. I see you, I

14:12

see your train, and I raise

14:14

you a train tunnel that you can

14:17

drive in. See, Jack, this is what

14:19

we don't want. In this house, we

14:21

believe the boring company is the future,

14:23

and it's not boring. I'm just picturing

14:25

your yard with all the, your in

14:28

this house signs. It's so many signs.

14:30

It's so many signs, and that is why that guy

14:33

keeps shooting me with an arrow. I lost his mind.

14:35

Yeah, yeah. What's

14:37

something you think is underrated? I

14:40

don't know. Can I

14:42

ask my daughter? She don't give a fuck. Yeah,

14:45

yeah. Okay. She don't give a good ass how

14:47

approach. I don't even go after. Okay. Give

14:49

me something that's overrated. Kids. Kids.

14:53

Kids. Mm, okay. What's

14:55

underrated? Abortions.

14:58

There you go. Okay. What

15:01

a juxtaposition. Underrated

15:05

abortions. Overrated kids.

15:08

Okay. Oh,

15:10

wow. That's a

15:12

really funny good answer. Yeah, that's everything.

15:14

That's everything. That's everything.

15:16

That's everything. Is your daughter

15:19

a comedian? She came, she was quick with that.

15:22

She writes on the show. I tell her all the

15:24

time, she didn't give a damn comedian, but she's not.

15:27

Yeah, funny. Wow, okay, yeah. Yeah,

15:29

kids are overrated. When

15:31

I can, let me tell you why I

15:33

say they're overrated because you

15:35

don't get the tax break you used to get for. Yes.

15:40

I mean, no,

15:42

what's his name? Trump changed that.

15:44

Yeah. So we don't get those

15:46

great tax breaks. I don't know if those tax break

15:48

you used to get for being poor, but you don't

15:50

get them anymore. So they

15:53

so overrated. You

15:55

used to get earned income credit. You taste a

15:57

lot to get earned income credit. Y'all probably know.

16:00

the hell I'm talking about. Cause you need a

16:02

tax break. So what you basically

16:04

do your shit ton of money per child. They

16:06

don't do that anymore. Right. Yeah. I used to

16:08

tell my kids back in the day, I say,

16:10

when you 18, I don't get an income tax

16:13

return for you. So that means we done. My

16:15

name is shit is over. Yeah. Right. You

16:18

have no monetary value. No, I mean, yeah, I just had

16:20

my first child. And I was like, I can't wait to

16:22

see my taxes. And I was, I was like, what? It's

16:25

like, I didn't even have. Yeah. I was like, this

16:27

was the reality I was promised. No,

16:30

no, no. You said it was

16:32

purely an investment. You said 100% money. Exactly.

16:39

It was only an investment as you put it in

16:41

the moment. That was it. It's

16:43

a very business like he's very busy. And

16:47

the crazy part is you don't know how they go

16:49

turn out. Right. I

16:51

know. I got a few right here. I have a few kids

16:53

right here. Be like, I kept you. Yeah.

16:59

But you got to love him the same. You got to love him the

17:01

same. Yeah. I love all my

17:04

kids. But let me say this as a parent, because

17:06

I have my parents the same life. Everybody

17:08

got a favorite kid. That

17:10

doesn't mean that my mother and father

17:12

don't love everybody. I have a favorite

17:14

kid. I love the rest of y'all. But

17:17

this is right here. It's my favorite. And

17:19

do you tell them that? Yeah.

17:21

You tell the kids. They

17:24

grow. Yes. Wait.

17:27

And why is Jumbug your favorite? I

17:29

think because he was my last one, he was 10'2". He

17:32

just so sweet. He's

17:34

my baby. He's 23. But

17:37

like that what I just talking to? Yeah.

17:46

I don't give a damn much. Yeah.

17:52

See, I'm contemplating another child maybe

17:54

down the road. And that's my

17:56

fear is that I would

17:58

immediately start comparing them. be like, oh man,

18:00

this one ain't shit compared to the other one.

18:03

Not like in an aggressive way, but that just

18:05

merely by having multiple kids, you have the ability

18:07

to sort of compare and contrast and like, and

18:09

then from there you are kind of like, yeah,

18:12

maybe I like the other one better. Or maybe

18:14

I like this one better. Well, everybody like one

18:16

bad, everybody, but you get fake ass parents to

18:18

say, Oh my God, I love all

18:20

of my kids. No, you don't. One of them

18:22

is probably smoke dope. You can't tell me if

18:25

you got a crackhead kid that that's your favorite.

18:27

Yeah. You don't say you don't love him and

18:29

you ain't going to do it. So you can't

18:31

get him out. Don't, but that's your fucking head.

18:34

Yeah. Well, people will tell the

18:36

truth. My oldest is used to be my head and

18:38

she's straightening up now. Yeah. I

18:41

have two kids, but they're like really close in age.

18:43

So it's like back and forth. And sometimes I can't

18:46

tell them apart, but they're, yeah. Back

18:49

and forth between who the favorite is. Yeah. Back

18:51

and forth between who the favorite is because they're,

18:53

but the younger one, really, you know, he's,

18:56

he's still a lot sweet. Like sweet most

18:58

of the time. Whereas the older ones started

19:00

to, he knows what rolling

19:02

his eyes means now. And that's

19:06

never forget your first time. You're like, what the

19:08

fuck is that? All

19:11

right. Let's, uh, let's take a quick break

19:13

and we'll come back and we'll talk about all that

19:16

cocaine that the president of the

19:18

United States is going to be

19:21

snorting. Uh, tonight, we'll be right

19:23

back. Okay.

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24:00

And there were like primary debates for the Democratic

24:02

primary like in 2020. Biden

24:05

was not like good. No. He's

24:07

not like a good debater. No. Yeah.

24:11

No. My question is like who comes to these debates going like,

24:13

you know what? I've

24:15

stayed pretty independent up until this point. And

24:18

I'm just gonna see what these two gentlemen

24:20

have to say. Trump guys all about. And

24:22

I'm just gonna base it on the issues.

24:24

I've read their websites and they seem like

24:27

they have some differences. I'm a Democrat, but

24:29

I don't know, man. I just, I

24:32

didn't really see Trump do his thing like that before. I'm

24:34

kind of into it now. I'm

24:36

kind of interested in now. And

24:38

I think it is like disingenuous, right? Like, I mean, do

24:40

you know people that are like, I don't know, man. I

24:42

just don't know if I can hold my nose and vote

24:44

for Biden. And it's like, this is

24:47

a conversation where I'm immediately like, okay,

24:49

well, then I just don't, I don't have

24:51

a lot of patience for it. You know, it's like, right.

24:53

It's like turning that thing into like a

24:56

single issue vote where you're, you know, I'm

24:58

like, whatever your issue with Biden is, I

25:00

beg you to show me like a

25:03

version that you find a

25:05

better version of your beliefs in Trump. Yeah,

25:07

I mean, it's just so hard because you're

25:09

like, especially with the Biden stuff, so many

25:11

people are contending with the anger of how

25:13

the two party system just like forces you

25:16

to be like, obviously I don't want Trump

25:18

to be president. Totally. But Biden

25:20

is completely unresponsive to anything that like

25:22

matters and what the fuck is this?

25:24

But again, by both parties

25:26

just trade off being the bad guy. So

25:28

then the other one can raise funds and

25:30

then, you know, they do the America round,

25:33

but it's clear Trump is still fucking hooked

25:35

on doing freestyle jazz talking up there, just

25:37

flowing on some stream of consciousness, consciousness word

25:39

association shit. And on Saturday in Philadelphia, I

25:42

don't know if you saw that like epic

25:44

rant he had about water and the sinks

25:46

and shit like that. A lot of like

25:48

he's, he's definitely in his water

25:51

phase between like the batteries and the

25:53

boats and the sharks and

25:55

like dishwashers, which he also. Water period. Yeah,

25:57

this is his water era. That's

26:00

something that like young children go like Three

26:04

you go through your water period where like water is

26:06

the coolest thing in the world And you have like

26:08

your little water tables and you can't talk playing with

26:10

water Exactly. He's

26:13

in his water period at the moment And if

26:15

you this is a lot of people were talking

26:17

about this But just to give you a taste

26:19

like this is how the guy is talking when

26:21

he's just talking so trying Like

26:23

imagine this on a debate stage No water

26:25

in your faucets you ever try buying a new home

26:27

and you turn on they have restrictors in there You

26:30

want to wash your hair? Well, you want

26:32

to wash your hands you turn on the water

26:34

and it goes drip Drip

26:37

the soap you can't get it off your hair So

26:39

you keep it running for about ten times longer you're

26:41

trying the worst is your hair I have

26:45

this beautiful luxuriant hair luxuriant

26:48

and I put stuff on That's

26:52

for hair I like lots of lather because

26:54

I like it to come out extremely dry

26:57

Because it seems to be slightly thicker that

26:59

way what Like

27:05

a lot of you know, he's rambling he's

27:07

talking He's trying to talk about like water

27:09

restrictors in shower heads Like this is a

27:12

thing he's talked about before but again He

27:14

starts off trying to make some point about

27:16

like what about our water in terms into

27:18

I like my hair real dry Yeah,

27:21

they care that we're just doing yeah, he's

27:23

just all right. Just freestyle man. Just me.

27:25

I mean the vriffs He's the king of

27:27

riffs and think about how our toilets can't

27:29

choke down his giant shits. It can't

27:31

be far behind It's just a predict.

27:33

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we're talking amazing

27:36

soon. We got to be talking toilet

27:38

like again We're in the water phase.

27:40

So yeah something with something something aquatic

27:42

will turn up but prior to that

27:44

performance of ranting he had an interview

27:47

with some right-wing blogger and Said

27:49

that they're like guys you got this the guy

27:51

was asking like you got this debate coming up

27:53

It's pretty intense and he's like, yeah, I'm getting

27:55

pretty just listen This is what Trump was saying

27:58

like how he's fucking preparing for the debate Being

28:00

interviewed by a guy completely bald with a

28:02

beard just in case that was that's probably

28:05

clear I probably don't need to yeah, what

28:07

a right-wing blogger dude looks like yeah Joe

28:10

Biden at Camp David as you and I stand

28:12

here your debate is Thursday with him No

28:15

audience CNN controls the mics Dana

28:18

Vash Jake Tapper. How

28:20

do you feel about that matchup? Well, it's probably

28:22

a one on three and

28:25

I've been doing this for a long time

28:27

though We'll handle that and people say how

28:29

are you preparing? I'm preparing by taking questions

28:31

from you and others if you think about

28:33

it So but I'm

28:35

prepared by dealing with you. You're

28:37

tougher than all of them Well, it

28:40

is a real pleasure to be here, sir I know you've got

28:42

a lot of fans waiting so it's I welcome you to town

28:44

sir, and thank you so much for your time You've been a

28:46

great friend. Thank you very much Chris. Appreciate it. Thank you My

28:49

name has like tears in his eye. Yeah, I always

28:52

love a name gas. Yeah His

28:55

name right but like he did nice. Yeah, it's

28:57

like you Chris. Yeah, I'm my best friend in

28:59

this world now this is where

29:01

you know, I think most people become very

29:03

skeptical because if if you go off the answer

29:05

of what he said His debate prep was like

29:07

it's like talking to people like you I'm

29:10

taking questions. So in a way that's preparing, isn't it? And

29:12

that sounds like you're not preparing at

29:15

all because you're not going to go

29:17

on the debate stage and if you

29:19

are going on the debate stage and

29:22

your version of preparing is just like

29:24

Completely whiffing on softballs from sycophants and

29:27

that's your preparation for the debate of your life

29:29

I'm again this this will be

29:31

it'll just be straight-up chaos because

29:33

he's obviously gonna be getting a

29:35

ton of questions about all his

29:37

bullshit like Felonies to January 6th

29:40

asking about Eugene Carroll where he

29:42

may fucking owe her like millions

29:44

of dollars again by opening his mouth

29:46

Riko charges fucking classified documents and Talking

29:49

to a guy who would never be like I mean like,

29:51

you know, like did you really why

29:54

did you have those classified documents? That's not

29:56

that's not done that he's not preparing in any way.

29:58

This is why I think It's going,

30:00

that's why I think now we see that

30:03

there's this like reason that's emerging from the

30:05

right Which is coming from a

30:07

lot of people including Trump, which is Joe

30:09

Biden is on fucking crank And

30:12

there's no way he can debate a guy

30:14

who's on fucking speed even though I have

30:16

Joe Biden is on speed I mean This

30:18

is my prayer is that Joe Biden does some

30:20

speed before this debate because I mean like as

30:23

long as we get Joe Biden Like talking

30:25

fast and walking quick. I think

30:27

we win this thing Computer

30:30

monitor Jack and a screwdriver. Yeah

30:37

We put Joe Biden we put Joe Biden on

30:39

some meth and he will win the debate and

30:41

he'll steal a bunch of copper piping out of

30:43

the Yeah,

30:46

I took the bike apart and I

30:49

took the spokes out of the wheels, but I used a Look

30:54

anybody can do this Yeah, it

30:56

is weird to help Trump always stages it like I

30:58

mean even that clip was like a wrestling it like

31:00

it did feel like Well, it's gonna be three on

31:02

one weekend In

31:05

front of a giant American flag like doing

31:07

the standing interview. Yeah in camera and I'm

31:09

surprised I didn't take the mic and go

31:11

direct a camera But

31:15

yeah the Ronnie Jackson aka fucking

31:17

dr. Feelgood the old White House

31:19

doctor who has had everybody pilled

31:21

up In both administrations

31:23

by the way also yeah the Obama

31:25

administration Yeah, he submitted a letter as

31:27

a congressman said quote. I demand this

31:30

is to Joe Biden I demand that

31:32

you submit to a clinically validated drug

31:34

test in order to reassure the American

31:36

people that you are mentally fit to

31:39

serve As president and not relying on

31:41

performance enhancing drugs to help you with

31:43

your debate performance command Is

31:46

he the Queen of England yeah, no and

31:49

again like you're saying that like this is

31:51

this is a guy whose time in the

31:53

And the White House was described as quote

31:55

a wash in speed Yes,

31:58

yeah like everything They said,

32:00

apparently, this was staffers popping pills and

32:02

washing them down with alcohol in large

32:04

part to Jackson's leadership as chief medical

32:06

advisor. Common pill requests included modafinil, Adderall,

32:08

fentanyl, morphine and ketamine, according to a

32:10

Pentagon report released in January. But other

32:13

unlisted drugs such as Xanax were equally

32:15

easy to come by from the White

32:17

House medical unit, according to source. It

32:19

really takes a step up at a

32:21

fentanyl morphe. Yeah. It's like, yeah, wait,

32:23

what? For what? The other ones are

32:25

like, yeah, that's what I expect the

32:27

White House to be running on like

32:29

Adderall. You have to go to sleep. Or

32:31

like, fint? Like,

32:33

with the lids? Can you even get those

32:36

anymore? Right. Yeah, it's interesting. I

32:38

mean, we always talk about how his

32:40

instinct is always to accuse the other

32:42

people of doing the thing he's doing.

32:44

And he seems so high when he's

32:46

up on the stage, like just the

32:48

way he's just rambling from one thing

32:50

to the other and just talking about

32:52

how luxuriant his hair is. Like, it

32:54

feels like he's on ecstasy or something. Yeah.

32:57

And it just feels like a guy who

32:59

knows like, I guess I got to talk

33:01

for an hour straight. So what

33:03

I'm just going to talk about whatever the

33:05

fuck I want. Like, you know, he doesn't

33:07

have to, but he has to. Oh, yeah,

33:09

exactly. The only thing that fills the sucking

33:12

void. A good campaign

33:14

ad for Joe Biden should

33:16

just be taking Trump transcripts

33:18

and having someone read back

33:21

transcripts of Trump to potential

33:24

voters and being like, so just a quick

33:26

thing. When you hear Trump

33:28

say, you know, because

33:30

if there's a star in the crowd, you know,

33:32

their cameras on my head, the back of the

33:34

whole time cameras, they're the best. Think about the

33:36

seats. This is a beautiful crowd and

33:39

how we're going to get the water and then

33:41

just be like, so what do you think about

33:43

that? What do you mean by that? Just just

33:45

get the reaction. Yeah, that should be the whole

33:47

thing. I think it's great. I think

33:49

it's I think it's awesome, man. And

33:51

what was he saying? I don't know, man.

33:54

I fucking love cameras, man. They're like magic. Don't

33:57

get them wet or near magnet. Yeah, exactly.

34:00

We'll get a like, Shark about that camera. I

34:02

do think though, like

34:04

this is, this happens every

34:06

debate where especially the Republicans,

34:08

this seems to be like

34:10

a piece of accepted wisdom

34:12

among Republicans. So you really

34:14

need to aggressively

34:17

attack expectations and

34:20

that that does tend to work. Like that's

34:22

why I'm just like, is the mainstream media

34:24

just like falling for the

34:27

same bullshit that

34:29

they fall for every time where like Trump's

34:31

like, Biden's one of the great debaters of

34:33

our time. And he, he killed like at

34:36

the time, I guess he said, like, remember

34:38

when Biden debated Paul Ryan and everyone's like,

34:40

Biden's going to get fucking killed. And

34:43

then Biden like did fine, held

34:45

his own against Paul Ryan, which

34:47

in retrospect, not that impressive. Paul

34:50

Ryan's a fucking dipshit, but

34:52

that like he did better than expectation.

34:54

So now Trump's like this guy is one of the

34:57

great debaters of all time and he's going to be

34:59

so, it's going to be flying on PEDs up there.

35:02

And then he's going to show up and like

35:04

have the expectations set where he wants them. So

35:06

I'm a little, I'm a little like,

35:08

I don't know, he'll probably show up. Like it would be

35:10

such a bad look for him not to show up. Like

35:12

I don't know, but he's not showing up with an out,

35:14

you know, like, cause this is another thing. He's

35:17

like, what is he going to be on drugs? I couldn't debate

35:19

somebody. And then he could just be like, I'm not talking to

35:21

that speed freak. Yeah. He won't,

35:23

he won't take a drug test and I'm not going to play.

35:25

Like, you know, it would be a real bad look. I

35:28

hope he doesn't show up because that seems

35:30

like a terrible look. Is there even like,

35:33

cause even in this version, right, even if

35:35

he shows up and completely shits the bed

35:37

figuratively or literally, no one's going to

35:39

be able to get whatever takes it. Yeah.

35:42

Like shit on a, it's going to be like whatever, you know

35:44

what I mean? Like no one's it's so, it's

35:46

hard to know because he's probably like, I'm

35:49

not losing anybody. I mean, so like, what do I have

35:51

to lose if I don't even go up there? But

35:54

again, I know he wants to start windmilling about

35:56

the fucking like, like immigrants

35:58

are killing people. single. And

36:00

that's going to be a moment for him to sort of try

36:04

and press Biden on something like that. But I

36:06

don't know, at the end of the day, based on

36:08

how, I don't know,

36:10

he just seems very like he's just not

36:12

into it. But look, we don't fucking know.

36:15

But I also feel like maybe

36:17

the debate polls are,

36:20

it might be like a

36:23

thing with like the Pepsi

36:25

taste tests where Pepsi would

36:27

win taste tests when it was like

36:29

a little sip of Pepsi versus a

36:31

little sip of Coke. But you can't

36:33

drink a whole glass of

36:35

Pepsi without your teeth falling out, feeling

36:37

like they're vibrating. I just

36:39

feel like you're testing for different

36:41

things. And he

36:44

always successfully makes it horribly

36:47

ugly in any debate he's

36:49

in. I'd never leave

36:51

the debate being like, well, he just got

36:53

his ass kicked. So

36:57

I just feel like some of this

36:59

is people wishful

37:01

thinking that he's not going to show up, that he's

37:03

going to show up and just suck.

37:05

I feel like it could

37:07

go the other direction pretty

37:09

easily. Not that that, this

37:11

is just also me. This

37:14

is the same comportment I take and

37:16

do my sports fandom where I'm like,

37:18

we suck, we're going to lose my

37:20

40 points. But it does feel like,

37:22

I don't know, it

37:24

could go badly for Biden. Oh, it

37:26

can. Given what we've seen of him

37:28

speaking, it's temperaneously over the past four

37:30

years. Make no mistake. They're both, I

37:32

don't know who a favorite is going

37:35

into this. Because just as easily, Trump

37:37

can just suck all the fucking air

37:39

out of the room and just keep

37:41

harping on these same things. And

37:43

then Biden's probably like, I need a nap. Who knows

37:45

what the fuck's going to happen? But I think

37:48

asks for an actual nap. Oh,

37:50

gosh. Okay.

37:52

He's like, timeout, man. Time out. Can I get,

37:55

can we get like, I need a nap in

37:57

a caramel. Yeah. Yeah.

37:59

I mean, maybe Biden, or maybe Biden, maybe

38:01

the best plan for Biden is, yeah, let

38:06

Trump talk more and also

38:08

get on some performance enhancing

38:11

drugs that make him like super ripped. I

38:13

mean, like, can we get him on HGH

38:15

at this point or something so that Biden

38:17

just looks like his best self? How

38:19

quickly can he look like a light,

38:21

heavy weight MMA fighter physically? Yeah, and

38:24

I'm sure Joe Rogan's got some

38:26

tips. So like, let's get him

38:28

just shredded for this one. Yeah.

38:31

Let's get his organs to grow, be old. And

38:33

that would actually be the one thing that Trump

38:36

would respond to, because as we know, he's always-

38:38

He'd be fucking terrified. Oh my

38:40

God, don't you see? Guy came out there with

38:42

arms like Christmas hams. He's wearing a smaller suit

38:44

jacket, isn't he? His biceps, they're

38:46

bulging out of the sleeves. No, no, no, no,

38:48

no, no, not this. He looks like right out

38:51

of central casting. Trump loves central casting. He loves

38:53

central casting. You get a super strong president,

38:55

Trump's gonna like it. And these guys, they

38:57

have big muscles, maybe not so much down

38:59

here and here, but up here.

39:01

Up here, yeah, huge brains.

39:05

All right, let's take a quick break.

39:07

We'll come back. We'll talk a little

39:09

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we're back. We're back. We're

41:50

back. And on

41:52

your show you've done some good

41:54

stuff on just the surveillance side

41:56

of AI, which I

41:59

mean that turns Turns out a

42:01

lot of the technology that

42:03

we initially thought was promising

42:05

was just eventually used

42:08

for the purposes of marketing and

42:10

surveillance in the end. And

42:12

it seems like AI skipped all the promising stuff

42:14

and it's just like, what if we just went

42:17

right to the surveillance? We

42:19

went right to harming people. Yeah.

42:23

I will say that you had

42:26

mentioned that this term

42:29

AI is being used loosey goosey.

42:35

AI is synonymous with large

42:37

language models and image generators,

42:39

but things that have

42:41

been called AI also

42:43

encompass things like

42:45

biometric surveillance, like

42:48

different systems which use this

42:51

technology called quote unquote machine

42:53

learning, which is kind of

42:55

this large scale pattern recognition.

42:58

So a lot of

43:00

it's being used, especially at the border.

43:03

So doing things like trying

43:05

to detect, verify identities by

43:08

voices or by faces. I

43:11

probably see this if you've been in the airport, the

43:13

TSA has been using this

43:15

and you can still voluntarily opt out

43:17

for now, but they're really incentivizing it.

43:20

I saw that TSA has this touchless

43:22

thing now, which is this facial recognition. So

43:25

you don't have to present your ID. You

43:27

can just scan your face and go and- Don't

43:31

do that. Yeah. Take every

43:33

option to opt out. And the fact that those signs are

43:35

there saying that this is optional, was it

43:37

toe on a penny? Petty? Somebody

43:39

actually- Yeah. The only

43:41

reason we had that science is because of her activism saying

43:43

like, this has to be clear to the travelers that it's

43:46

actually optional and you can opt out. So

43:48

it's posted there that you don't have to do this. that

44:00

this is optional. Was it Tawana Petty?

44:02

Somebody actually- Tawana Petty. Yeah. Yeah. The only

44:04

reason we had that science is because of

44:06

her activism, saying like, this has to be

44:08

clear to the travelers that it's actually optional

44:10

and you can opt out. Right. So it's

44:12

posted there that you don't have to do

44:14

this. Yeah. Yeah. All right, then I'm going

44:16

to fill you up. Sorry, those are just

44:18

the rules. Yeah. Are they? It's just, it's

44:20

absolutely. But I mean, it gets, it gets,

44:22

you know, leveraged against

44:24

people who fly to

44:27

a lesser degree. But I mean, folks who are

44:29

refugees, or Siles, you know, I

44:31

mean, people on the move really

44:34

encounter this stuff in incredibly violent ways.

44:37

You know, they do things like try

44:39

to, they take their blood and say

44:42

that, well, we can, we can associate

44:44

your, we're going to, you know,

44:47

sequence your genome and say if you're

44:49

actually from the country you say you're

44:51

from, which is first, it's pseudoscience. I

44:53

mean, basically all biologists have been like,

44:55

you can't use this to determine if

44:57

someone is XYZ

45:00

like nationality because nationalities are

45:02

one, political entities, they're not

45:04

biological ones. And

45:07

so like, we can sort

45:09

of pinpoint you to a region, but it

45:11

says nothing to say of anything

45:13

about the political borders of a country. There's

45:16

a great book I started reading

45:18

by Petra Molnar, which

45:20

is called The Walls Have Eyes, which

45:23

is about this kind of intense

45:25

surveillance state or intense

45:28

surveillance architecture, you

45:30

know, it's being used in, you

45:32

know, typically in the border, the

45:34

US-Mexico border, but also

45:36

the, you know, the various points of

45:39

entry in Europe where

45:41

African migrants are fleeing

45:44

to, you know, fleeing, you know,

45:46

places like Sudan and Congo and

45:48

the Tigray region of Ethiopia. So

45:51

just like, and this is just

45:53

some of the most violent kind of stuff

45:55

you can imagine, and it's way

45:57

far away from, you know, this kind of Ooh,

46:00

here's like a fake little child,

46:02

you know, or a Jesus holding

46:04

12,000 babies riding a

46:08

truck with the American flag on it. You know what I

46:10

mean? Right. That's...

46:13

Yeah. So the reality is, yeah, much more stark. And...

46:16

You see that? You see the

46:18

one to many image matching. So you

46:20

get all these false arrests of people because

46:23

the AI said that they matched the image

46:25

from the grain surveillance video. And it's one

46:27

of these things where it's bad

46:30

if it works because you have this increased

46:33

surveillance power of the state. And it's bad if it

46:35

doesn't work because you get all these false arrests. It's

46:37

just a bad idea. It's just a don't. And

46:40

it's not just image stuff. So we

46:42

read a while back about a situation

46:44

in Germany, I think, where asylum seekers

46:47

were being vetted as

46:49

to whether or not they spoke the

46:51

right language using... So

46:53

one of the things you can do with pattern matching

46:56

is, okay, language identification, this

46:59

string, what languages it come from. But it

47:01

was being done based on completely inadequate data

47:03

sets by people who don't speak the languages,

47:05

who are not in a position to actually

47:07

vet the output of the machine. And so

47:09

you have these folks who are in the

47:11

worst imaginable situation. Like, you don't go seeking

47:13

asylum on a lark,

47:16

right? Yeah. Because your Wi-Fi

47:18

broke at home. Yeah. Right.

47:21

And then they're getting denied because some

47:24

algorithm said, oh, you don't speak the language from the

47:26

place you claim to be coming from. Your

47:29

accent is wrong. Your accent is wrong, or

47:31

your variety is wrong, whatever. And the person

47:33

who's run this computer system has

47:35

no way of actually checking its outlet, but they believe

47:37

it. And then you get these asylum seekers turned away.

47:40

Yeah. So how does that...

47:42

With everything you said, how should we feel

47:44

that OpenAI recently welcomed

47:46

to their board the

47:49

18th director of the NSA, Paul

47:52

Nakasone? Is that bad?

47:55

Or what should we take from that? How

47:57

should we feel not at all surprised?

48:00

How should I feel when open AI? It's like,

48:02

okay, whatever the rest of that is, is bad.

48:04

Yeah. Seems bad, man. It

48:08

seems like there's again, we're talking like this

48:10

technology to master surveillance pipeline, and who better

48:12

than someone who ran the fucking NSA? And

48:16

I know the way it's being spun

48:18

is like, this is part of Cyber

48:20

Command. He inherently knows what the guardrails

48:22

need to be in terms of keeping

48:24

us safe. But to me, it just

48:26

feels like, no, you brought in a

48:28

surveillance pro, not someone who understands inherently

48:31

what this specific technology is, but more someone

48:33

who learns how to harness

48:35

technology for this other specific aim.

48:39

Yeah. Yeah. So surveillance is not

48:41

synonymous with safety. The

48:43

one use case for the word surveillance

48:45

that I think actually was pro public

48:47

safety is there is a long-term

48:50

study in Seattle called the Seattle Flu

48:52

Study. And they are doing what

48:54

they call surveillance testing for flu viruses. So they

48:56

get volunteers to come in and get swabbed. And

48:58

they are keeping track of what viruses are circulating

49:00

in our community. I'm

49:02

all for surveilling the viruses, especially

49:04

if you keep the people out of it. Yeah.

49:07

I would add a wrinkle to that just because

49:09

I think that, I mean, there's a lot of

49:11

surveillance, I mean, that's the kind

49:13

of technology they use with health surveillance to

49:15

detect kind of virus rates and

49:17

whatnot. I would also add the wrinkle

49:19

that like a lot of those organizations

49:22

are really trusted by, distrusted by marginalized people. Like,

49:24

what are you going to do? What's it mean?

49:27

Especially thinking like lots

49:29

of trans folks and

49:32

especially under housed

49:34

or unhoused trans folks and just like, you're going to

49:36

do what? You want this data from me for who?

49:38

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Understandably.

49:41

Especially because surveillance in general is

49:43

not a safety thing. It

49:47

is maybe a safety

49:49

for people within the walls of the walled garden

49:51

thing, but that's not safety. Yeah.

49:55

The other thing about this is that

49:57

what we call AI these days is

49:59

predicated on enormous data collection. And so

50:01

to one extent, it's just sort of

50:03

an excuse to go about claiming access

50:05

to all that data. And once

50:07

you have access to all that data, you can do things with

50:09

it that have nothing to do with the large language models. And

50:12

so there is, you know, this is, I think, less,

50:15

typically less immediately like threatening to life and

50:17

limb than the applications that Alex was starting

50:19

with. But there's a lot of stuff where

50:21

it's like, actually, we would

50:23

be better off without all that information about

50:26

us being out there. And there's an example

50:28

that came up recently. So did you see

50:30

this thing about the system called recall that

50:33

came out with Windows 11? So

50:36

this is such a mess.

50:38

So initially, it was going to be

50:40

by default turned on. Oh, yes. Yeah, this is

50:42

kind of like the Adobe story, too. Yeah. Yeah,

50:44

every five seconds, it takes a picture of your

50:46

screen. And then you can use

50:48

that to like using AI search for stuff that you've

50:50

sort of an end their example of something stupid. It's

50:53

like, yeah, I saw a recipe, but I don't remember

50:55

where I saw it. So you want to be able

50:57

to search back through your activity and like zero thought

50:59

to what this means for people who are victims of

51:02

intimate partner violence, right, that

51:04

they have this surveillance going

51:06

on in their computer that eventually ended up being

51:09

shipped as off by default, because the cybersecurity folks

51:11

pushed back really hard. And by folks, I

51:13

don't mean the people at Microsoft, I mean the

51:15

people out in the world who saw this coming.

51:18

But that's another example of like, surveillance

51:20

in the name of AI that's

51:22

supposed to be the sort of, you know, helpful

51:25

little thing for you, but like no thought to

51:27

what that means for people. It's like, yeah, we're

51:29

just gonna turn this on by default, because everybody

51:31

wants this, obviously. Right. It's like, no, I

51:33

know how to look through my history, actually, I've

51:36

developed that skill. Yeah, I

51:38

don't need you to take snapshots of my,

51:40

my desktop every three seconds. But your shows

51:43

covered so many kind of upsetting ways that

51:45

it doesn't seem like it's

51:47

people implementing AI, it's companies implementing AI

51:49

in a lot of cases to do

51:53

jobs that it's not capable

51:55

of doing. There's been incorrect

51:57

obituaries, Grok, the Elon Musk.

52:00

one, the Twitter one made up

52:02

fake headlines about Iran attacking Israel

52:04

and public, put them

52:06

out as a major trending story.

52:09

You have this great anecdote about a

52:11

Facebook chatbot AI responding

52:14

to someone, had this very specific

52:16

question. They have a gifted disabled

52:18

child. They were like, does anybody

52:21

have experience with a gifted disabled

52:23

2EE child with this specific

52:26

New York public school

52:28

program? The

52:31

chatbot responds, yes, I have experience with

52:33

that and just made up because they

52:35

knew that's what they wanted to

52:37

hear. Fortunately, it was clearly

52:39

labeled as an AI chatbot. So the person

52:41

was like, what the black

52:43

mirror? That was a good quote.

52:46

But World Health Organization,

52:48

eating disorder institutions, replacing

52:50

therapists with AI. You

52:53

just have all these examples

52:56

of this going, being

52:59

used where it shouldn't be and things

53:02

going badly. And

53:05

there's a detail that I think

53:07

we talked about last time about Duolingo, where the

53:12

model where they let

53:14

AI take over some of the stuff

53:17

that human teachers and translators were doing

53:19

before. You

53:22

made the point that people who are learning

53:24

the language who are beginners are not in

53:26

a position to notice that the quality has

53:28

dropped. I

53:30

feel like that's what we're seeing basically

53:32

everywhere now. The

53:34

internet is so big. They're

53:36

just using it so many different

53:38

places that it's hard

53:40

to catch them all. And then

53:42

there's not an appetite to report

53:45

on all the ways it's fucking

53:47

up. Everything

53:50

is getting slightly

53:53

too drastically shittier at once.

53:56

Yeah. And I don't know

53:58

what to do with that. I

54:01

would say, yeah. Well, go ahead,

54:03

Emily. What you do with that is you

54:05

make fun of it. That's one of our things is ridiculous process

54:07

to try to keep the mood up, but

54:10

also just show it for how ridiculous it is. Then

54:13

the other thing is to really seek out the

54:15

good journalism on this topic, because so much of

54:17

it is either fake journalism output

54:20

by a large language model these days, or

54:23

journalists who are basically practicing access journalism,

54:25

who are doing the Jews thing, who

54:27

are reproducing press releases. Finding the

54:29

people who are doing really good critical work and

54:31

supporting them, I think is super important. Yeah. Alex,

54:33

you were going to say. Well, you just teed

54:35

me up really well because I was actually going

54:37

to say, some of the people

54:40

who are doing some of the best work on it are

54:42

like four or four media. I

54:44

want to give a shout out to them because

54:47

these folks are basically, they

54:50

were at motherboard and

54:53

motherboard. The

54:55

whole vice empire was

54:58

basically sunsetted.

55:01

They laid off a bunch of people. They

55:04

started this journalist owned and operated

55:06

place. That focuses

55:08

specifically on tech and AI.

55:12

These folks have been in the

55:14

game for so long. They know

55:17

how to talk about this stuff

55:19

without really having this being bowled

55:22

over. There's

55:24

people who play that access

55:26

journalism like Kara Swisher, who

55:29

poses herself as this person who

55:31

is very antagonistic. But

55:33

right off the bat. Just fawning

55:35

over AI people. Yeah. All the

55:37

time. Conferences.

55:40

I trusted Elon Musk and I was like, well,

55:42

why did you trust this man in the first

55:44

place? Did you know I

55:46

was reading the Peter Thiel

55:49

biography, the contrarian and

55:52

it's a very harrowing read. I

55:56

mean, it was fascinating, but it

55:58

was very harrowing. It wasn't a. It was

56:01

pretty critical. But

56:03

they discuss the PayPal days,

56:05

24 years ago when Elon Musk was like, well,

56:11

I want to rename PayPal to X.

56:14

Then everybody was like, why the fuck would

56:16

you do that? People are using PayPal as

56:18

a verb. Effectively

56:23

the same thing you did with Twitter. People

56:26

are talking about tweet as a verb. It's

56:29

been like an

56:31

absolutely vapid human being

56:33

with no business sense. Anyways,

56:36

that was a very long way of

56:38

saying, care is what, care is what.

56:43

Also saying that there's lots of folks. There's

56:46

a number of folks doing great stuff. I mean folks at

56:48

404, Karen Howe

56:50

who's independent but had been at

56:52

the Atlantic and MIT

56:54

Tech Review in Wall Street Journal. Kerry

56:56

Johnson who was at Wired is

56:59

now at CalMatters. There's a lot of

57:01

people that really report on AI from

57:03

the perspective of the people who it's

57:06

honoring rather than starting from,

57:08

well, this tool can do X, Y, and

57:10

Z. We really should

57:12

take these groups out of their claims. But

57:14

yeah, the larger part of it is, there's

57:16

just so much stuff out there and it's

57:18

so hard. It

57:21

is like whack-a-mole. We're

57:24

not journalists by training. I mean,

57:26

we're doing a journalistic

57:29

thing right now. We're doing commentary.

57:34

I would not say we are journalists. I always

57:36

say we are doing a journalistic thing. We're

57:40

doing journalism, but we are not journalists.

57:42

We are not doing original reporting. Sure.

57:44

But it is. I

57:46

don't know. I

57:49

don't know who decides this. It is

57:51

the court of journalism. But

57:54

reporting insofar as looking at original

57:56

papers and effectively being like,

57:58

okay, this is Mark. This is

58:00

why it's marketing. Yeah, there's no there there.

58:03

Yeah. Yeah. Rather than a

58:05

Wizzbang CNET article or

58:08

something that comes out of

58:10

a content mill and

58:12

says, Google just published

58:14

this tool that says you can

58:17

find 18 million materials

58:19

that are complete, almost

58:21

like, okay, well, let's look at those claims and

58:24

upon what grounds do those claims

58:26

stand and how that's

58:28

a pretty poor thing. I

58:30

like thinking of what we're doing is, first

58:32

of all, sharing our expertise in our specific

58:34

fields, but also modeling for people how to

58:37

be critical consumers of journalism. Yeah.

58:39

So journalism adjacent, but

58:42

yeah, definitely without training in journalism.

58:44

Yeah. Totally. Do

58:46

we want to do the M&M article math? I mean.

58:49

Oh my gosh. There's this article that

58:51

has like done my head. Broken our

58:54

brains because it just has this series

58:56

of sentences. That I don't know

58:58

that like, is everything is degrading like journalism. Yeah.

59:01

There's that story about like the Daily Mail was like

59:03

Natalie Portman was hooked on cocaine when she was at

59:05

Harvard. You're like, no, that was from that rap she

59:07

did on SNL. Yeah. And that

59:10

was like a bit, but because. But it gets

59:12

ingested. This thing's just great. And then the Daily

59:14

Mail had to be like, at the end they

59:16

corrected it. They're like, uh, just, she was not,

59:18

that was obviously a satirical and that was due

59:20

to human error. Like they really leaned into that.

59:23

Yeah. Of course. Did

59:25

I say by the time that a fabricated quote of mine came out of

59:27

one of these things and was printed as news? No. No.

59:30

So I also like Alex have searched my own name

59:32

because I talked to journalists and not that I like

59:34

to see what's happening. And I had, there was something

59:36

in an outfit called Bihar Prabha that attributed this quote

59:38

to me, which was not something I'd ever said. And

59:41

not anybody ever remembered talking to. So

59:43

I emailed the editor and I said, please take

59:46

down this fabricated quote and print a retraction because

59:48

I never said that. And they

59:50

did. So the article got updated. So

59:52

the thing attributed to me. And then there was

59:54

a thing at the bottom saying we've attracted this, but

59:56

what they didn't put publicly, but he told me over

59:58

email is that the whole thing. came out of Gemini.

1:00:02

They posted it as a news article.

1:00:05

The only reason I discovered it was it

1:00:07

was my own name. I never said that

1:00:09

thing. Well, I need your

1:00:12

expertise here to decipher this Food

1:00:14

and Wine article that was talking about

1:00:16

how M&Ms was coming out with a

1:00:18

pumpkin pie flavored M&M, but

1:00:20

very early. Normally pumpkin pie flavored things don't

1:00:23

enter the market till around August, like around

1:00:25

when fall comes. This is why we were

1:00:27

covering it because we are journalists. Yes, we

1:00:29

are. We are the important stories. In

1:00:32

May, pumpkin spice already.

1:00:35

No. But again, they

1:00:37

were saying this is because apparently

1:00:39

Gen Z and millennial consumers are

1:00:41

celebrating Halloween earlier. But this is

1:00:43

this one section that completely- Wait,

1:00:45

wait. Can we back up? What? Yeah.

1:00:48

I don't know. That's what they're saying.

1:00:50

According to their analysis that we were,

1:00:53

that we apparently, so let me read this for you. Quote,

1:00:56

the pre-seasonal launch of the milk chocolate

1:00:58

pumpkin pie M&Ms is a strategic move

1:01:01

that taps into Mars market research. This

1:01:03

research indicates that Gen Z and millennials

1:01:05

plan to celebrate Halloween by dressing up

1:01:08

and planning for the holiday about 6.8

1:01:10

weeks beforehand. Well,

1:01:12

6.8 weeks from

1:01:14

Memorial Day is the 4th of July. So

1:01:16

you still have plenty of time to latch

1:01:18

onto a pop culture trend and turn it

1:01:21

into a creative costume. I

1:01:23

don't- That's a cop chaos.

1:01:26

That's a cop chaos. It doesn't make any sense. I know.

1:01:28

Look, wait. Wait, I'm fixating on 6.8. Exactly.

1:01:31

What does

1:01:35

that even mean? What the fuck does

1:01:38

that mean and where did Memorial Day

1:01:40

come from in that? And what is

1:01:42

6.8 weeks for Memorial Day because

1:01:44

it's not any of the days that they said

1:01:46

it was? They said July 4th. And

1:01:50

also 6.8 weeks isn't a real amount of time. That's 47.6

1:01:53

days. What is even a 6.8 week?

1:02:00

real. It's possible that they surveyed

1:02:02

a bunch of people and they said, when do

1:02:04

you start planning your Halloween costume? And those people

1:02:06

gave dates and then they averaged that. And

1:02:08

that's how you could get to it. Right. I

1:02:11

get that. And then- Can I

1:02:13

get that? That's fair. But also it

1:02:15

totally sounds like someone put into a

1:02:17

large language model, write an article about

1:02:19

why millennials and Gen Z are planning

1:02:22

their Halloween costumes earlier. It

1:02:24

sounds like that. And it's also

1:02:26

just so odd to say, well, 6.8 weeks

1:02:28

from Memorial Day is the 4th of July.

1:02:30

This article didn't even come out. It came

1:02:32

out after Memorial Day and-

1:02:34

Yeah. It's just nothing made

1:02:37

sense. And I was like, I don't fucking understand

1:02:39

what they're doing to me right now. But again,

1:02:42

this is the insidious part for me about it.

1:02:45

This appeared in Food and Wine? This is in Food

1:02:47

and Wine magazine with a human in

1:02:50

the byline. And I actually DM'd this person

1:02:52

on Instagram and I said, do you mind

1:02:54

just clarifying this part? I'm a little bit

1:02:56

confused and I've gotten no

1:02:58

response. I've gotten no response. I'm wondering if

1:03:00

it's because I know that, I mean, there

1:03:02

was some good coverage in Futurism and

1:03:05

they were talking about this company

1:03:08

called Advon Commerce and

1:03:10

the way that basically this

1:03:12

company has been basically making

1:03:15

AI-generated articles for a

1:03:17

lot of different publications,

1:03:20

usually on product placement.

1:03:24

And so it makes me think it's sort

1:03:26

of like, because Food and Wine may

1:03:29

have been one of their, I forgot the article,

1:03:31

but they had better homes and gardening and these

1:03:33

legacy articles

1:03:37

like that. So I don't know if it's something

1:03:40

of that or this journalist kind of said, write

1:03:42

me this thing and I'm just going to drop

1:03:44

it and then go with God. Yeah.

1:03:49

My other favorite example of AI is this

1:03:52

headline I saw somewhere. It's no big

1:03:54

secret why Van Vaught isn't around anymore

1:03:57

with a picture of Vince Vaughn, but there's like

1:03:59

God as... Name completely wrong.

1:04:02

Yeah, why can't fuck It's

1:04:05

no big secret why van vot

1:04:07

isn't around anymore I'm

1:04:12

like I'm not You know

1:04:14

if I was just scrolling and I just and I'd

1:04:16

say like yeah, I you know, it's like, you know

1:04:18

I liked van vot and the intern But

1:04:22

then I but I'm and then I would have looked

1:04:24

at it and then I would have double taped I'm

1:04:26

like, wait, wait, wait. Yeah is did he co-star with

1:04:28

Owen? Wilson or something.

1:04:31

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly Russell Wilson

1:04:33

was in that I

1:04:35

think it was the ad week report and that you're

1:04:37

thinking about so features and did a bunch of it

1:04:39

But then ad week had the whole thing about ad

1:04:41

von and I can't quite know no, no it was

1:04:44

it was future It was futurism. Yeah, cuz cuz ad

1:04:46

week had the thing on this program That

1:04:48

Google was offering and it didn't have a

1:04:50

name. Oh, right. Yeah I'd

1:04:53

vomit futurism. Yeah, but it totally sounds like

1:04:55

but it is happening. Yeah. Yeah, right Yeah,

1:04:57

I thought you're gonna talk about the the

1:04:59

surveillance by Eminem thing. We said M&M's so

1:05:01

this was somewhere in Canada There

1:05:04

was an M&M vending machine that was like

1:05:06

taking pictures of the students While

1:05:08

they were making their purchases and I forget

1:05:10

what the like a sensible purpose was but

1:05:12

the students found out and I got it

1:05:14

Removed Wow, probably freaked out made a big

1:05:16

deal about it. Oh Dude,

1:05:18

are we right? Alright,

1:05:22

that's gonna do it for

1:05:24

this week's weekly zeitgeist Please like

1:05:27

and review the show if

1:05:29

you like the show Means

1:05:32

the world to miles. He he needs

1:05:34

your validation folks I

1:05:36

hope you're having a great weekend and I

1:05:39

will talk to you Monday. Bye You

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