0:12

He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He graduated from Notre Dame

0:17

and has two law degrees from Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing

0:23

law for over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time for

0:30

the David Carrier Show. Welcome back to the David Carrier Show, or welcome

0:35

to the David Carrier Show. Wherever it's a new hour. You have found

0:39

the place where I forget what we're doing here. You've found a place where

0:43

we talk about a state planning, elder law, real estate and business law,

0:48

focusing on news you can use how to keep your own life in order?

0:53

Isn't that important? I think so? Anyway? Six one, six

0:56

seven, twenty four to twenty four. If you have a Q question,

1:00

can comment or concern about wills, trusts or probate. If you're wondering how

1:03

do I beat the high cost of long term care? You know what I

1:07

mean? That's that nurse because you'll know that's a bunch of you know malarkey,

1:11

right right, You'll never need long term care. Heck, no,

1:15

all those statistics that say it's sixty five, you have a seventy percent chance,

1:19

and then in your eighties it's like ninety eight seven point seventy three whatever

1:23

that is, and off a lot of big chance. That's all a bunch

1:29

of hogwashed anyway, because everybody knows how the nursing homes are closing down right.

1:33

It's not like the census, uh was it Department Census, Census bure

1:37

or whatever they are predicted that we need thirty eight new nursing homes in the

1:41

state of Michigan alone. Yeah, that never happens. And what else never

1:45

happens? Oh yeah, the fact that sixty one percent of nursing homes refuse

1:49

people because they're not because they're understaffed. That doesn't happen either. And the

1:53

fifty three percent turnover rate, Oh that from Department of Labor statistic. That's

1:59

just not right. Long term care is cheap, cheap, cheap, and

2:02

your kids will take care of you anyway, and so let's not worry about

2:06

it. Yeah, I go with that one at the winner. Anyway.

2:10

If that's how you feel about it, then then give me a call and

2:14

we'll talk about car accidents or something I guess. But if you're wondering how

2:19

do you beat the high cost of long term care. Well, well,

2:21

there are ways to do that, you know, legal efficient ways, you

2:25

know, good ideas. We got full of good ideas. Let's see we

2:30

do so we do that. We also deal with real estate, so you

2:34

know, we're telling you about how to handle your refinancing and your homemakering lines

2:38

of credit so that you don't wind up losing millions and billions and trillions of

2:43

dollars to the owing, you know, to a malignant, malicious prosecutor without

2:47

out for blood yours, your blood incidenttly you know, Oh it'll be a

2:53

bloodbath. Right. Is it getting more transparent? Is it? I mean?

3:00

Is it getting just more obvious? Look at stuff? It's like I

3:06

can use this expression, but you can't. I mean, I mean,

3:10

isn't it I don't know, I mean, how can you? How can

3:15

you maintain the charade anyway? There? It is, because that's what we're

3:20

all about, right, maintaining charades around here. Let's do that. So

3:23

if you have a question, but but you know, one of the things, the whole business law aspect of it, I got to uh, we're

3:30

still doing the uh what is it? Cottage and lakefront Living show And one

3:36

of the best things. When I was doing the employee Retention tax credit,

3:38

I went to a number of industry uh trade shows and what have you.

3:44

And I'll tell you what it's. Uh, it's really I missed it,

3:49

you know what I mean. It was like here, I got to be this old and it's pretty old and not having spent hardly any time at those

3:54

things. And it's not so much for the people come cruising through, you

3:58

know, not the visitors. It's the uh, the people who were there, the the the manufacturers, reps and the people who run their own businesses

4:05

and that kind of thing. And it's the same way here at the at

4:08

the lake Front Living Show. It's there the people come through who have cottages

4:14

and whatnot. Yet love talking to them. Very interesting all the rest.

4:17

But it's fascinating, uh to me anyway, the the folks who are there

4:25

exhibiting. You know. So you've got the guy who's selling the pots and

4:29

pants, and the other guy who's selling the knives, and somebody's selling flag

4:33

poles. You get the flagpole guy. You got all the Amish people who

4:38

are selling everything from docks to sheds and all that kind of thing, you

4:44

know, and their kids are there and it's you know, they're very engaging and very you know, just a lot of fun to talk to them,

4:50

and uh just really uh that's the that's the part of the show I like

4:55

the best, you know, talking to talking to those folks. And of

4:59

course everyone whos stops by the booths and says, hi, we you know, we love that, love that as well. But if you if you

5:05

have if you have a chance, I'm speaking at two o'clock. I'll be

5:09

the last speaker, as I was the first speaker a couple of days ago,

5:13

and talking about cottage succession and all the rest of this. And so

5:17

in the interest of saving you some money on a on a ticket to the

5:20

show, plus you can't get there, maybe here's here's the point. You

5:27

know, America is getting older, right, Things are getting more expensive,

5:31

right, these are cottages are getting more expensive. And nowadays, if you

5:38

have a cottage in West Michigan, for example, are you are not in

5:44

competition with other people in West Michigan to buy a cottage? You're in competition

5:49

with the people from Chicago. Now you say, well, well that's all

5:53

right. You know fifty states et Plert of Bazunam. You know, we're

5:56

all hearing this together and all the rest of yeah, yeah, yeah,

5:58

I get that. But people in Chicago think nothing of spending a million dollars

6:03

for a two bedroom apartment. Okay, I mean, look at some of

6:08

the houses that those folks are living in and look at the prices on them.

6:11

You can go to Zillo. Don't see this beauty part of it.

6:15

You don't have to believe me on anything. Just go to Zillo and look up for a two bedroom apartment in you know, Cook County, Illinois.

6:23

Right, let alone all the taxes, corruption, violence, and everything else

6:26

going on out there. Look at the prices unbelievable, right, And if

6:30

you were in Chicago, right, wouldn't you. I mean people like to

6:34

get away from Grand Rapids, Okay, you know they get out to the

6:39

lake, you know, get away from gr Can you imagine getting away from

6:43

Chicago? Can you imagine living in Gary and I'm getting get away from the

6:46

weekend? Well, you have a huge incentive to do that, don't you? Bigger incentive. So my challenge to you is, if you've ever been

6:55

to Chicago on a weekend. Have you ever been in Chicago for a weekend?

6:59

Right, and you're coming back into Michigan. And as you're coming back

7:02

into Michigan to travel, you know, it's kind of heavy traffic, but

7:05

it's flowing right along blah blah blah. Look over in the other lane,

7:11

the traffic that's leaving Chicago. Excuse me, that's leaving Michigan going to Chicago.

7:16

All right. It's four lanes, solid bumper to bumper, you know,

7:21

moving slowly. Why because all those people right they're leaving West beautiful West

7:28

Michigan at the last moment to go back to the hellhole of Chicago. No

7:31

offense Chicago anyway, So you know they're waiting til the last minute. It's

7:36

when I grew up on the Cape, it was the same way Sunday afternoon.

7:41

The traffic was backed up all the way down the Mid Cape Mid Cape

7:45

Highway. And even after they put in four lanes, you know, everyone

7:48

from a two lane to a four lane, it was still backed up.

7:53

All the tourists leaving, you know, all the all the people at the

7:56

cottages taking off. Why because they didn't want to be in Boston, Dorchester

8:00

or wherever they want to you know, spend the time in the Cape.

8:03

But that's what's happening that's who you're in competition with. That's who your kids

8:07

are in competition with. Okay, if you lose the family cottage, it

8:11

ain't coming back. Nobody's gonna know. You know, you got a cottage

8:16

now in the family. We had some folks yesterday, cottage in the family.

8:20

Five generations, five generations. Okay, you know it's changed over the

8:24

five generations. The biggest change I mean is things are more expensive. Of

8:28

course they are all the rest. The biggest change in the five generations,

8:31

I would submit, I would submit this is my position that the biggest change

8:37

in the five generations is healthcare. It's more expensive and it lasts a hell

8:41

of a lot longer. Right, this is where the cottages are going to

8:46

die. This is where the farms are going. Okay, centennial farms and

8:50

what have you. Whereas before, you know, people got old and they

8:54

died. They get old and they don't die anymore. You know, we

8:58

just we just keep them at the five hundred and fifty dollars a day nursing

9:01

home. Well, do the math at another fifty bucks a day for whatever.

9:07

Now that you're six hundred dollars a day, six hundred dollars a day.

9:11

All right, what's six hundred times three, eighteen hundred times ten,

9:15

eighteen thousand, eighteen thousand dollars a month. That's not everywhere. You can

9:18

get the cheap O place for twelve thousand a month. It's only four hundred

9:22

dollars a day. Hey, go to the cheap O place twelve thousand dollars

9:26

a month. Oh and by the way, you don't qualify for any help

9:31

until you sold the cottage. So let's get rid of that sucker. To

9:33

somebody in Chicago. You know, this is what's happening. This is the

9:37

reality of it, and that's why succession planning has to be first, first

9:43

and foremost has to be long term care planning. This is what I keep

9:46

saying. I mean, this is I guess I'm kind of a win trick

9:48

pony on this. But if you don't plan for the long term care,

9:52

you aren't planning for the cottage. Give it up, forget about it.

9:56

You're not gonna have it. No, no, no, no no.

10:00

You know some stockbroker from I don't know what the city is, I don't

10:05

know what the street is in Chicago, I don't know. Someone in the

10:09

green pits they get in your house, you know what I mean. And

10:13

somebody, somebody who's making a hell of a lot more money than your kids,

10:18

who can easily outbid them, you know. And it's the same way

10:20

with ask anybody. It's the same way with farmland, the same way with

10:22

hunting property. Talking to a guy yesterday, swamp land is now going for

10:26

two thousand dollars an acre. Why because guys are buying it. Who for

10:31

them, it's nothing, it's nothing. They just as soon pay two thousand

10:37

if it was three thousand. They buy it anyway. It doesn't matter to

10:39

them. All right, you're dealing you're in competition with people for whom the

10:45

money has got a whole different meaning. And so the only way you're going

10:48

to keep that cottage, that farmland, whatever right, is to keep it.

10:52

It's like a national park, all right. That's why you Listeneses Grand

10:56

one hundred and fifty years ago established Yellowstone as the first nation no park,

11:00

because if we lose it, when you lose it, you don't get it

11:03

back. There's no getting it back, there's no you know. It's well

11:07

anyway, you know what I'm saying. You've been listening to the David Carrier

11:11

Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney. This hour of the

11:39

David Carrier Show is pro bono, so call in now at seven seven four

11:43

twenty four, twenty four. This is the David Carrier Show. Welcome back

11:48

to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.

11:54

Now's the time to give me a call. Six one, six seven seven four twenty four twenty four. That's six one, six seven seven four twenty

12:01

four to twenty four. We'll get your question, comment or concern on the

12:05

air and uh yeah, and it's free this week. It's this week.

12:11

We're not charging. So there you go. Six one, six seventh then

12:15

four twenty four, twenty four to twenty four. Love to love to hear

12:20

from you. Also, you can email me David at Davycarrier Law dot com.

12:24

Uh and we'll you know why, you know why, because we love

12:28

to get the emails. Here's another thing. I've been getting some complaints at

12:31

the got some complaints at the show about, oh, we don't like the

12:37

you know, we don't like the music, you know, the the bumper

12:43

music. Not the bumper music, because that's good, but the intro and

12:46

outro music. You know the uh, I forget, I forget where we

12:50

got that music. Anyway, the point is you don't like it so much,

12:54

so if you want me to change it, you know how flexible I

12:58

am. I have no problem with that. But if you want me to

13:01

change it, then you have to tell me what you would like me to

13:03

change it too. Because we've done this. We've done this before where where

13:11

you know, people said, oh, I don't like the music, and

13:13

I said, okay, fine, what do you want me to change it to? And then they didn't they didn't have any you know, they didn't

13:20

say what they wanted, what they wanted to change it too. So what

13:24

I'm asking is send me an email David at Davidcarrier Law dot com if you'd

13:28

like me to change the music. But if I get the same response,

13:33

which as no response that I've gotten in the past, we're sticking with the

13:37

same you know, organ music. It's an intro to a song. So

13:41

anyway, there you have it. We're talking about cottages this week, and

13:48

you know the problem. Here's the problem with cottages. Right, Let's assume

13:52

you got past the I lost it to the nursing home situation. Let's assume

13:56

you got past that. And one of the danger is things I think nowadays

14:01

is where people think, well, you know, it got handed down through

14:03

the family and so everything's okay. The way it was done is sufficient unto

14:11

the day you know it's going to work work before it'll work now. And

14:15

the error, the error of that is that the mistake in that is the

14:26

is that that isn't true. You know the world has changed COVID. You

14:35

know, we blame a lot of things on COVID, I guess, but you know COVID changed took about ten years of change and squished it all together.

14:43

You know what I mean. In terms of tightening up on the government

14:46

regulation. You know, you look at some stuff and you think, well,

14:48

wait a second. People coming across the border and they get free cash

14:52

cards. They're even flying people in Like if you're in a if you feel

14:56

oppressed or whatever in your home country, there's an application of a phone app.

15:01

You know that you can call the state department that's on the plane for

15:05

you. Apparently they've done this for almost half a million people now, four

15:09

hundred and twenty thousand, three hundred and twenty thousand of the numbers. You

15:13

know, that's what gets reported. And you think, well, wait a

15:15

second, government doesn't seem to be too worried about stuff, right, yeah,

15:20

you know whatever, And you know, you get they get people arrested

15:22

for whether it's shoplifting or felony offenses or what have you, and they turn

15:26

around they let them go, and you think, well, you know, okay, I guess you know, well whatever, I guess the government doesn't

15:33

care about enforcing law anymore. Well, here's the thing that you have to

15:41

I would suggest that you might want to pay attention to, is where it's

15:45

true that in many ways, the government seems indifferent to enforcing the law.

15:52

Okay, you aren't the person there indifferent to enforcing the law against Okay,

16:00

you think, well, these wealthy people over here, they get away with

16:03

everything. Yeah, they kind of do. Uh. And these people at

16:07

the other end of the spectrum, they get away with everything. Yeah they

16:12

kind of do. Uh, kind of kind of do. But wait,

16:18

these rich people I don't pay so much in taxes. Yeah that's right,

16:23

you see that correctly. And these people at the other end of the spodrum,

16:27

they're not paying very much in the way of taxes either. Yeah,

16:33

yeah, that's right. Okay, So if these people uh up there aren't

16:40

paying and these people down there aren't paying, hmmm, who does that leave

16:45

to pay? And if you don't care about what they're doing, and you

16:49

don't really care about what they're doing, who does that leave for you to

16:55

care about what they're doing? We're in We're in such a weird your place,

17:00

okay, where the only people who have to follow the rules are the

17:07

people who pay all the taxes are the people who are doing the work.

17:14

You're doing the work. You got to pay the taxes. You're doing the

17:18

work. You better follow the rules. Okay. These people over here who

17:22

just showed up yesterday crashed the gate, right and all the rest, we're

17:27

gonna give them a phone, a cash card, in a place to sleep,

17:32

and they're gonna be pissed off that the food isn't good enough, and

17:34

they're gonna be angry. Right, they're gonna squat in your house, some

17:38

of them. There's a guy out there. I guess who makes a I

17:41

mean, this is who knows. Okay, I'm not I don't know if

17:47

this is true or not, but I saw the video. Oh it's a

17:51

video, it must be true, right, it was on the interwebs, so it must be trying. Who the hell knows, but it's this guy

17:56

who's who's gonna make a business out of placing peopleeople in other people's houses because

18:02

the rules on you know, when you're a squatter, you know, if you're in there for a certain amount of time, the owner doesn't find out.

18:07

Now you've got to go through the whole eviction process. I mean this

18:11

whole at the cottage show. You know, you imagine you come back from

18:15

the you know, apparently that's a new thing people getting concerned about. You

18:21

know, we got to have video surveillance on our cottage because you don't want

18:23

to find out that there's somebody there moved in and has a right to stay

18:29

there. But that's this is the weird situation we're in right now. Now.

18:34

I don't know how you fix that. I swear to God, I

18:38

don't know. I don't know how you how you fix that. It seems

18:41

like it seems like there's an awful lot of people who are engaged in you

18:47

know, what I've described as self harm. You know, it's like the

18:51

more I suffer, the more I prove how virtuous I am. There seem

18:55

to be people doing this right. It's like, it's okay if if my

19:00

fellow Americans don't have jobs, because you know, I hurt myself because my

19:03

fellow Americans don't have jobs, But I'm giving jobs to these people, and

19:08

that's virtuous because I'm hurting myself to help those people. And if we let

19:14

these people off without paying their debt to society, that's okay. It hurts

19:18

me because stores are closing down and things are not available that used to be

19:22

available, and all the rest right that's not available, But that's okay.

19:26

I'm hurting myself, but it's virtuous. And the more I'm in pain from

19:32

hurting myself, the more virtuous I am. Is that what's going on it

19:38

makes no sense to me, but it does seem to be observable. I

19:45

mean, look around. Is this stuff not happening? Am I? You

19:51

know? Am I deluded that this stuff is? It seems like it's happening.

19:55

Okay, So what does that do for us? You know, if

19:57

you're in the middle and you're just trying to make it okay, then you

20:02

got to understand you are going to be held to account, You are going

20:06

to be paying your taxes, You are going because you've got to do more

20:08

of this because the people who let those people off and they feel virtuous.

20:15

See this is the bizarre thing. It's like if we got to let those

20:18

people off, which actually hurts us, Okay, but we can't let the

20:22

people who are actually paying the bills and making it work. We can't let

20:26

them off the hook for anything. These people free pass, those people,

20:32

tighten it up, screw it down, makes you know, get every last

20:37

nickel out of those guys. That seems to be where we're at these days,

20:41

and so technical compliance with the rules is more important than ever, it

20:47

seems like to me. If you're just trying to make your way through.

20:51

You've been listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's

20:55

personal attorney. David's got the how to you're looking for. Just call seven

21:17

seven four twenty four twenty four. This is the David Carrier Show. Welcome

21:25

back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.

21:30

Now's the time to give us a call. Six one, six seven

21:33

some of them four twenty four twenty four. That's sixty one six seven seven

21:37

four twenty four twenty four. If you'd like to get your question, comment

21:41

or concern on the air, especially if it has to do with the state

21:45

planning, older law, real estate or business law, that's the we'll take

21:51

anything. We're not really very particular, but you know, if you have

21:56

stuff questions about that, that's a specially good. We're talking about cottages and

22:03

not just cottages, but primarily right we're doing the uh uh that Lakefront Living

22:08

in Cottage show downtown and Morgan welcome, love to see you there. You

22:15

know, it's amazing how many how many folks stop by the booth and oh,

22:18

I love the show. You know, sometimes they feel kind of lonely

22:22

here when people don't call me, But apparently there's uh, there's more than

22:25

five or six people out there watching, so that's that's encouraging. But we're

22:29

gonna be speaking at the at the show, and just in case you don't

22:33

feel like laying out the however much it costs for a ticket or whatever,

22:37

let me tell you what I'm going to talk about the Let's assume that you've

22:41

made it past. You've you followed all the rules, because that's what you

22:45

are. You're a rule follower, right, You think this is what I

22:51

think. You think if you do the good thing and all the rest,

22:53

things will work out for you. Right, always has Right. So you

22:57

did this stuff, and you made that that cottage, that farmland, that

23:02

hunting property, the cabin, whatever it is, is going to be there

23:06

for the next generation. So you pass the first hurdle. Right, how

23:10

do I make sure that it doesn't go to healthcare, long term care?

23:15

Whatever? You did that? I mean, you paid for these programs,

23:18

right, tax dollars at work. Right, everybody else is benefiting. Why

23:22

not you? I'll tell you, why not you? Because you paid for

23:26

it. That's why. Isn't that bizarre? It's the most bizarre thing in

23:30

the world to me. It's like I paid for this thing, therefore I

23:34

don't get it. Yeah, but we can make sure that you do.

23:41

There's ways to do that. You got to follow the rules, you got

23:44

to be meticulous all the rest. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah.

23:47

So what else is new? Anyway? And now it goes to the

23:51

next generation, which, of course, now it becomes a bon of contention,

23:56

right, it becomes a dogfight over who gets Fourth of July or Labor

24:00

Day or whatever. And there's basically two ways that people in general leave the

24:08

cottage, the hunting property, the farm, whatever it is to the kids.

24:11

Two ways. First is they put the kids on the deed. And

24:15

the development of the ladybird deed eliminated some of the problems ladybird deeds. What

24:22

used to happen. I mean when I first did this back in the you

24:26

know, the look through the mists of history, back in the you know,

24:30

the dark ages of the of the eighties. What was going on was

24:37

people would do a joint deed so that when they died, their kids would

24:41

own it jointly. We saw an awful lot of that, and the problem

24:45

is when mom or dad wanted to sell the property or do something with it,

24:51

the kids wouldn't sign off. That was kind of routine, right,

24:55

So that was a problem. And you get around that with the Ladybird deed

25:00

because it keeps you in control and it still avoids probate. So there's good.

25:04

I'm not saying labor deeds terrible. I'm just saying it's a tool.

25:07

It's a it's a screwdriver, it's a hammer. You know, it's it

25:11

does what it does. It's not a plan, it's not a strategy.

25:15

It's not a solution, it's a tool. That's what it is. Anyway.

25:19

The point is that with the the way that most people do it is

25:25

they put the kids on the deed. They do the ladybird deed, they do the old fashioned joint deed, that kind of thing. The problem is,

25:33

now you've got all the kids together on the deed and there's no easy

25:37

way, there's no easy way to administer. There's no rules. See if

25:42

you put all the kids jointly on the deed, right, so whoever lives

25:47

longest gets the whole property, which is not uncommon. It may not be

25:52

intended, but it's not uncommon that it winds up that way. Then there's

26:00

no way to get you know, there's always somebody who leaves the place a

26:03

mess, right, there's always somebody who leaves milk in the refrigerator, who

26:07

didn't run the dishwasher, who left the dirty sheets on the bed, who

26:12

didn't sweep the sand out of the out of the you know, and the

26:15

wet towels are there. And then you come back and it's buzzing with flies

26:19

because they didn't take out the garbage. It smells like mold. Because the

26:25

now the towel, the wet towels that they left in the middle of the floor stinking, you know, and the sour milk in the refrigerator. Okay,

26:32

I mean this is not untypical. When we've got family, there's always

26:36

somebody in the family or one of their friends. Well, look, Tommy

26:38

borrow the place. You know, they were in for out of town or

26:41

whatever, and or we left early and they were supposed to clean it up,

26:47

and they did a million excuses for that stuff. Anyway, the point

26:49

is there's no rules, and you can't say or who gets to use the

26:55

thing on the fourth of July? Who gets to enforce the cleanup rules.

26:57

You don't get to use it because you didn't clean it up. You can't

27:00

say that, not when they're joint owners. And in fact, if I

27:04

want to bring thirty guests right to spend the fourth of July at the beach,

27:10

I'm perfectly entitled, one hundred percent entitled to do that. If I'm

27:14

a joint owner, all right, you can't stop me. And guess what,

27:18

you can't make me pay the taxes either, so I don't feel like

27:22

paying the taxes. You can't sue me to pay the taxes. You can't

27:26

sue me for the upkeep. This is if it's a joint ownership, if

27:29

it's tenants in common, it's still very difficult to do that. There's a

27:33

way to do it. But then I get divorced, or I go bankrupt,

27:37

or I just decide to sell it out to my biker gang, right,

27:41

I decide to sell my share my interest. I can do that and

27:44

you can't stop me. Right. So this common way, that most common

27:48

way that people do it is it's just a recipe for disaster. And you're

27:53

hoping that there's enough family feeling that they won't they won't do the worst of

27:59

all possible things. But you know, I don't know if you know what

28:02

a scorpion is. I have ever seen a scorpion. You know, it's

28:06

that it's like a rackknid, right, So it's a spider family. But

28:10

it's got this tail, you know, this stinger thing. Right, it's

28:14

terrible. It's you know, whenever they whenever they're looking for some monster,

28:17

you start with a scorpion. Well, anyway, think about how many kids

28:19

you've got, all right, how many kids? Imagine that. Now,

28:22

imagine that each one of them is a scorpion, right, one of those

28:26

spider things with the tail, right, with the stinger thing. Okay,

28:30

and now you put them in a I don't know, a mayonnaise jar.

28:33

You got a mayonnaise jar there, right, and you put however many kids

28:37

you got, that's how many scorpions you just put in the mayonnaise jar.

28:41

And if they're married, well then you put the in laws in the mayonnaise

28:44

jar. There're more scorpions right in the mayonnaise jar. Are we all together

28:47

on this? Now? Shake it up? That's what you do when you

28:52

put them on the deed. Okay, you're putting all the scorpions together in

28:56

a mayonnaise jar, and you're shaking it up, and you're hoping somehow or

29:00

other. I you know, I don't even it's you know, it's an

29:03

act of faith that defies the saints, right, I mean, you go

29:06

to the you be a martyr with faith like that that that's going to work

29:08

out. And yet people do it every single day? Why Because it's cheap.

29:12

It's easy. You know, work for Uncle Floe or uncle Uncle ned

29:17

and flow. You know, it worked for them, So I guess it'll be I guess it'll be fine, right, So that's the most common way

29:23

of doing it now because that's such a disaster, what people do is they

29:27

go to the corporate model. That guy wrote a book on this. He's

29:32

passed, but the book is still around on saving the family cottage using limited

29:37

liability LLC Limited liability companies using LLCs. And the advantage of that is now

29:42

you're not liable for the damage that the that the gangster disciples did on the

29:48

property. Okay, you're you are not personally liable anymore as a joint owner,

29:53

as an owner a tenant in common, you're not liable anymore. Okay,

29:57

it's now the liability of the LLC and you're protected somewhat at least from

30:03

that. You're protected from that. So that's good. Plus there are rules.

30:07

That's good. But now it's easy to get out if you want to.

30:12

It's easy for the different members to cash in their share, the minority

30:17

owners, and they're all minority owners. There's more three area, more than

30:21

two of you. You're all minority owners. Right now, you can cash

30:23

in, you can cash it out. You can force a sale, which

30:27

means that the whole thing collapses, and there's all kinds of provisions and there.

30:30

All this legally is about oh well, you know, we'll pay out

30:33

over ten years and two times the seve and stuff like that. People put

30:37

that stuff in there and they go, oh, that'll work fine. It

30:40

doesn't work fine, It doesn't work at all. When one of them wants

30:45

out, yeah, you got a process for it. I know there's a

30:47

process for I know that legally this doesn't have to happen. I'm just telling

30:51

you a practically experience. It does happen. One wants out, They all

30:55

want out. When last segment we'll talk about what the real solution is in

31:00

my experience, in my opinion. So then I'm David Carrier, your family's

31:06

personal attorney, and you're listening to the David Carrier Show. How about that?

31:23

Damn David's and working and taking your calls. Now, this is the

31:30

David Carrier Show, all right, broling Stone, So you gotta love them.

31:45

Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's

31:48

personal personal attorney. So how do we how do we solve the Gordian knot?

31:53

How do we untie it? How do we make sure that if you

31:57

have managed to hang on the family cottage. Right, you managed to do

32:01

that? And why is that valuable? It's valuable. Well, I'll tell

32:05

you what. When I was, when I was a kid, my grandmother,

32:08

my mid mayor, my French grandmother lived on Keech Pond in Chapatchet Rhode

32:14

Island, Chapatchet Rhode Island. Uh, and going to Keach was the highlight

32:20

of the of the week, especially in the summertime. We'd go out there, you know, all the all summer long. And well we didn't spend

32:27

all summer, but occasionally you get to spend a week out there. And

32:30

when I was, when they were building the place, like my dad and

32:35

I built the deck on the on the cottage, and we put the pump

32:39

in, you know, and there was no one else out there, all

32:42

that kind of stuff, you know, and we learned to fish out there

32:45

and swim and all the rest of it at Grandma's place. And then Grandma

32:49

died, mid Mayor died and uh the uh what happened to the what happened

32:54

to the cottage? Well, it was supposed to hang around, right,

32:58

Well, it didn't hang around because because somebody who shall not be named Aunt

33:02

Conny needed the money and so the thing got sold, surprise, surprise,

33:07

and that was that. Okay, so you know, kind of sucked,

33:14

but there it is. Now, how do you avoid that? How do

33:16

you how do you make sure that if that doesn't happen, if you've gotten

33:21

past that hurdle. Okay, we've gotten that, past that, past that

33:23

hurdle, and you still have the cottage in the family, how do you

33:28

get it to the next generation in the in a way that is actually a

33:31

good thing. And it gets back to philosophy a little bit. You gotta

33:36

what is the philosophy? Why did I leave the house? Why did I

33:38

leave the cottage to the family? And my suggestion is you left the cottage

33:44

to the family in the same way, in the same spirit that we created

33:49

Yellowstone National Park, or Yosemite or the Porcupine Mountains or pick your national state

33:53

park whatever, Right, that was the motivating principle. You know, why

34:00

do we still have the dunes? Why aren't there houses all along Lake Michigan?

34:06

Why do we have a national seashore? And the answer is, once

34:08

you lose it, you can't get it back, right, And there are

34:13

some things that are so special that we're willing to give up current enjoyment for

34:17

future enjoyment by people will never meet because it'll be one hundred years from now,

34:22

or in the case of Yellowstone, one hundred and fifty years from the

34:24

time that Grant set the thing up right, the Congress didn't Grant sign it

34:31

into law. It's that important. The cottage, I suggest, is that

34:37

important for a family. But you don't want to do it in such a

34:42

way right that people are just fighting over it. And see things like this,

34:46

money, cottages, farm, whatever can be a blessing, unbelievable blessing

34:52

right for generations to come, or can be an absolute curse that rips the

34:58

family apart and very difficult to heal for generations to come. Create a lot

35:02

of stories. So the question is how do I preserve it so that I

35:07

get the good part right and I can encourage the good part. I cannot

35:13

guarantee, you can't guarantee the future right, but you can set up conditions

35:16

for success. And that's my suggestion with regard to the cottage trust. And

35:22

what you do is you say, Okay, nobody gets to cash this in.

35:28

Nobody gets to cash in their share. I don't care, divorce, bankruptcy, whatever, you're in prison, whatever. You don't get to cash

35:34

it in and spend the money on a car or your debts or anything else.

35:38

Nobody gets to cash in their share of the cottage because you don't have

35:43

a share of the cottage anymore than you have a share of Yosemite. You

35:49

can't cash in your share of the Porcupine Mountains. You can't do it,

35:52

right. And so similarly, you can't cash in your share of the family

35:58

cottage because it isn't yours. That way, you have the ability, you

36:01

have the not entitlement exactly, but you have the ability, you have the

36:07

condition of possibility of using it because your parents left it for you and for

36:13

your progeny going forward, all right, And nobody gets to use it for

36:17

free. You don't get to use a national park for free. Go to

36:21

a national park. You know most of the people I'm dealing most of the

36:24

people who are dealing with at the Lakefront show there, Lakefront living in cottage

36:30

show. Most of those people they have the sticker on the windshielding, right,

36:34

I mean they But that sticker wasn't free either. They paid for it,

36:37

right, And when you re knew your plates, did you get the

36:39

passport. Lets you go to all the state parks. I hope you did.

36:44

Uh. They're your uh there for you, there for you to use.

36:46

You should get that, you should be using that. You have to

36:50

pay for it because it costs money. But you know, once you paid

36:53

for it good enough, now you get to uh now you get to uh

36:57

take advantage. Well you should. Similarly with the cottage, the cottage isn't

37:01

free. If you're going to use the cottage, you got to pay what

37:05

it costs. And that's part of it so that we never lose the cottage

37:08

never falls apart. Okay, that's a very important part of it. But

37:14

you don't get to cash it in'. That is the key to the national

37:17

park system. That's the key to making your family cottage a blessing for the

37:23

generations. There are rules that everybody understands. There's a way to administer it

37:28

that everyone understands. Okay, there are accounts. There's you know, the

37:31

roof is going to fall in at some point, you get better start saving

37:35

money for it now. So when the roof does fall in, or the

37:38

water heater explodes, or the dishwasher craps out, or the refrigerator breaks whenever

37:44

that stuff happens, you were thinking about that because your rational being right,

37:49

and everybody who uses the thing pays their fair share plus And this is my

37:54

own experience with my brothers. We own a place on kipe kyd of Us

38:00

for the five brothers. Part of the deal is when before you use the

38:05

thing, you get to pay into the kiddy right for all those expenses that

38:08

we've calculated. But there's also a cleaning fee. All right, So if

38:14

you if you're the one who leaves the wet towels in the middle of the

38:16

room and the milk and the refrigerator and don't take out the garbage, someone's

38:21

going to do that for you. Okay, Now hopefully you you know,

38:24

you maintain standards, right, So the cleaning person is just putting the last

38:30

polish. So the next person has a very very positive experience. But at

38:34

least the bad thing isn't going to happen where somebody comes in. You know,

38:38

you're going to start your vacation the place stinks like a whatever, just

38:44

terrible, all right, that's not going to happen to you, to your

38:46

family in your cottage room. We're not going to have stories about how this

38:51

one or that one just abused the privilege because they didn't abuse the privilege because

38:54

everybody contributed. Right, somebody leaves, you know, they don't. They're

39:00

not into Michigan, they're not into lakes, they're not into any of that stuff. They don't want to do it. Okay, fine, don't.

39:06

Your grandkids might and so, and it's going to be there for the grandkids.

39:10

That's the concept. That's the idea behind the cottage trust. And when

39:15

you do it that way, it's a blessing unto the generations, which is

39:21

the whole point of leaving the cottage. If you didn't want to leave the

39:23

cottage to the kids, if you didn't want to create that irreplaceable opportunity,

39:28

sell the damn thing and give them the money. But if you didn't want

39:31

to, let's do it correctly. This is what I'm saying. We're in

39:36

a world right now where there's very little slack, and you get the least

39:39

slack of anybody. Let's do it right and then you can have some expectation.

39:45

You've been listening to the David Carrier Show on David Carrier, your family's

39:49

personally attorney. You've been listening to the David Carrier show a lively discussion addressing

40:12

your questions and concerns, but not legal advice. There is a big difference,

40:15

so when making decisions that affect your family, your property, or yourself,

40:20

the best advice is to seek good advice specific to your unique needs.

40:24

If you missed any of today's show, or would like additional information about the

40:28

law offices of David Carrier, please visit Davidcarrier Law dot com.