0:13

He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He graduated from Notre Dame

0:18

and has two law degrees from Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing

0:24

law for over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time for

0:30

the David Carrier Show. Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal

0:41

attorney. And you have found the place where we talk about a state planning,

0:45

elder law, real estate and business law. So give us a call.

0:49

Why don't just sixty one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four.

0:53

That's sixty one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four, will get your

0:58

question? Comment? Were concerned on the air. So you thought you were

1:06

you thought you were living in a place where the rule of law really matters. Is that right? Is that what you were what you were thinking?

1:12

Yeah? Well me too. So we're about to uh, we're seeding jurors.

1:19

Now who lied? One who lied and admit you know, denied it

1:23

and then they found out that they were in The judge said, well,

1:26

you know, can you be fair and impartial? Oh? Yes, yeah,

1:34

okay, fine, how would you like to how would you like to

1:37

go on trial right for something that wasn't didn't used to be a crime.

1:44

I guess it's a crime now. And uh and the jurors think you're an

1:49

awful person. Said so, we're asked if you said so, said no,

1:55

and then when it turns out that you actually did, then then oh

2:00

that's okay, if you can be if it can be fair, Oh my

2:05

good. You know, the we did some courts martial, you know,

2:10

a pellet court martial back in the back in the day. Not I wasn't

2:15

in court myself. I wasn't the the Tom Hanks guy saying, you know,

2:21

I want the truth though you can't handle the truth. I am, you know. I wasn't that guy. I was the guy who read the

2:27

record of trial after the after Tom Hanks said that, and uh uh,

2:34

you know, decided whether or not there had been a fair trial. And

2:37

then when I had to appeal the thing. Okay. So that's that was

2:39

my experience there. It was all on the record. And then then when

2:46

I got to town, the firm I was with had a city of Attorney

2:50

contract, so I actually got to do a couple of dozen jury trials.

2:55

And generally speaking, it's a lot harder to get a conviction than you think.

3:01

Generally speaking, you know, shoplifting, drunk driving, what have you.

3:09

Juries are usually pretty pretty tough, and I lost a bunch of those.

3:15

All right, you have to you really have to h not just present

3:20

the evidence. It wasn't it wasn't like that. There's a burden that you

3:22

have to get over right emotionally for folks before they'll convict one of their uh,

3:30

you know, another another person. That's just the way it is.

3:36

That is the way it is. Now. The problem is we don't have

3:42

that anymore, right, I mean, we all know that that's not what's

3:46

going on here, don't we. We all know that, uh that that

3:53

that whole presumption of evidence, presumption of innocence thing is a sort of a

3:58

joke in the show trial let's going on that's going on right now? I

4:02

mean we know that, don't we. I mean, you know that you

4:06

following this thing, I hope at least a little bit so the you know,

4:15

if your thought, if your thought things were basically fair, it's pretty

4:19

tough to keep thinking that and the things that are crimes, like like let's

4:27

say let's say you went to uh, uh, you went to the store,

4:32

right, and you you stole something? All right, Let's just not

4:38

that you would ever do such a thing. I know you wouldn't. But

4:41

let's say let's say you did. Let's say you went to the store and

4:46

uh, or you drove drunk. Let's say let's say you drove drunk.

4:50

Okay, Well, you know when you when you get charged with something like

4:56

that, they tell you what it is you supposedly did in order to go

5:03

on to go on trial. Right, they tell you, they say,

5:06

hey, you know you did you did this bad thing on the night of

5:13

the thirteenth, you know, at eleven thirty driving down twenty eighth Street and

5:17

a semi that wasn't yours. You know that you're stolen? What have you?

5:24

The generally speaking, the charging authority will let you know what it is

5:30

your you did. Now that seems like basic fairness, right, right?

5:35

Do you remember when you had kids? Remember your kids would put it this

5:39

way. Remember when your kids were little, Right, you didn't just whack

5:43

them for no Well maybe you did, I don't know, but most people

5:46

don't whack their kids for no good reason. They say, did you steal

5:49

the cookie? Did you pull your sister's pigtails. Did you kick the cat?

5:55

Did you do you know? No, my I didn't do it.

5:59

Then comes to just this whack. Well, at least you know what you're

6:01

getting whacked for. It's not a lot of point and whacking kids for stuff.

6:06

Oh, of course, nowadays you can't even say that. Oh,

6:10

time for time out for you? Okay, sure, ma, time out?

6:15

Can I take my iPad? Yeah, I go to your room with

6:19

your computer and your cell phone and you know, and let's get a petition

6:26

going about how unfair it all is. Yeah. Fair anyway back in the

6:29

day when justice was swift and sure, at least you told the kid what

6:34

the hell it was they were supposed to have done so then, because why

6:39

why do you do that so that hopefully they don't do it again? Right,

6:44

Like if you were if they arrested you for murder. Let's say you

6:47

got arrested for murder, right, murder. That's bad, right, that's

6:53

killing somebody, you know, and there are elements of the offense, you

6:57

know what I mean. This is what they teach in law school, which apparently is completely out the window now. Forget about forget about anything they touch

7:02

about criminal procedure or criminal law. That's all gone forget about. It doesn't

7:08

count anymore. Like for example, you know, if you and this is

7:13

off the top of my head, so double check me on this. But larceny stealing, right, is the taking and carrying away. So you have

7:23

to take something and you have to carry it away of the personal property something

7:29

right, personal property, not real estate, personal property of another belonging to

7:34

another. So it's got to be somebody else's personal property. It can't just

7:38

be laying out there. It's got to belong to somebody with the intent and

7:42

you have to have it in your mind to permanently deprive, right to not

7:47

give it back. So it's the taking and carrying away of the personal property

7:54

of another with the intent to permanently deprive. Okay, that's what larceny is.

8:00

And you know everyone says, oh, he robbed the grocery store.

8:03

Well he might have, but that's not shoplifting. Shoplifting is taking and carrying

8:09

away personal property belonging to another from a retail establishment. Okay, there you

8:13

go, all right. And robbery is when you throw the element of great

8:18

bodily harm right by means of great bodily harm. Okay. The point is

8:22

that we all know what these crimes are, right, because because you're not

8:31

automatically guilty, it might be guilty, Yeah, you might be, but

8:35

you have to show to the jury that was there a taking and carrying away?

8:39

Yes? Was it personal property belong to another? Was it personal property?

8:43

Did it belong to another? Did they intend to permanently deprive? You

8:48

gotta show all this stuff. Well, that's all out the window. Forget about it now, because now apparently in the state of New York, Please

8:54

God, it doesn't come to Michigan. Wait till it does. Now you

9:01

can be convicted without them telling you what you supposedly did. Do you see

9:05

how that makes things a little more difficult? You remember that, You remember

9:09

that movie, the Christmas movie right where what's his name? The main character

9:18

there, the big blue eye kid, he swore, right, and his

9:22

mother says, where did you find out? You know? Where'd you hear that word? Well, his father used the word constantly, but he blames

9:28

one of his friends, right, And you hear the telephone conversation, right,

9:33

And the mother on the other end loses her mind when the kid's mother

9:39

what's his name? The blond here, blue eyed kid, whatever it is?

9:45

Ralphie. Yeah, Ralphie swore right, and so he blames it on

9:48

Schwartz. I think anyway. You hear the screaming and the kids like what

9:52

I do? MO, what I do? And you're whack whack whack.

9:56

Well that's your criminal justice system for your right about now, okay, because

10:01

it's a matter of what did I do? What did I what was I

10:03

supposed to have done? And they're not gonna tell you. They're just gonna

10:07

say, well, you have, you know, a bad fake tan,

10:11

and you know your orange there and and your hair is blown all over the

10:15

place. Plusure built a whole bunch of buildings. Plusure built an ice rink.

10:20

Plus you brought peace to the Middle East. Plus we don't like you.

10:24

So I'm gonna put a bunch of people who don't like you and are

10:30

willing to lie about it in a box and take away all your stuff.

10:33

How about that? Welcome to the Welcome to America right where half of the

10:41

people are in your corner more than half depending on which thing. Well,

10:45

if you want to know, I mean, this is a law show, right, We're talking about the law. There's the law for you. What

10:50

is going on? I don't know then listening to the David Carrier Show.

10:54

I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney. I want to be a man.

11:03

I want to be This hour of the David Carrier Show is pro bono,

11:16

so call in now at seven four. This is the David Carrier Show.

11:33

Maybe we should just let let this play. That'd be better, you

11:39

know. Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your

11:43

family's personal attorney. This is the show, of course, where the bumper

11:46

music is almost always better than the show itself. And that's always true when

11:52

we picked the Beatles hard to admit, easy to observe seven seven four twenty

12:01

four to twenty four Area code six one six seven seven four twenty four twenty

12:07

four. If you want to, I don't know, demand more Beatles,

12:11

that'd be fine. Billy Joel, that'd be fine. Michael Jackson, you know, big favor of mine. Any of the Motown stuff, that'd be

12:18

great too. I'm I'm willing to give it up. But in the and

12:22

and you can you can certainly stop me from ruminating, ruminating on the ruinous,

12:31

ruminating on the ruins of our criminal justice system, right, I mean

12:37

nowadays, apparently you can be indicted for things that aren't crimes or things that

12:41

went stale. Get this, I mean, are you wondering what's going on

12:45

in New York? There's this there's this trial going on in New York. Some people have forard about it. I don't know. It's not very not

12:50

very relevant to a republic, the republican form of democracy, right, it's

12:56

not relevant when we gin up a bunch of charges that are total nonsense,

13:03

total nonsense. But but if you wonder, let's let's take an example.

13:07

Let's take something that's legal. Let's say Let's say you're a prominent person.

13:13

Let's say you yourself are a prominent person, and you have lots of money,

13:16

okay, and and you're kind of out there. You've you've had more

13:22

than one wife, maybe you're working on wife number three, and you'd like

13:26

for this one to work, right, you like this one to stick.

13:30

Perhaps you got young kids and whatnot. And then somebody makes a living getting

13:35

naked and doing it on the movies. Somebody says, hey, hey,

13:43

that guy had sex with me sex, right, and now he's like doing

13:50

sort of politician stuff what have you. But he's you're just prominent. Now

13:54

here's a question fellas and women too. Would you like your spouse to know

13:58

about that? Right? Now? Understand that if you pay off everybody who

14:05

shows up with the handout, right, and you just give them money,

14:09

you're gonna get Are you gonna get more people like that or fewer people like

14:13

that? Hmm? Let's see. I could make allegations that may or may

14:18

not be true, certainly are not provable. There's a woman in New York.

14:20

Get this. There's a woman in New York who's made like one hundred

14:24

million dollars. Get this, Get this, this is true. It's hard

14:28

to believe, like like a hundred million dollars alleging, alleging that somebody took

14:37

her into a dressing room at a busy department store and did something. She

14:43

doesn't remember what, she doesn't remember when, she didn't remember what year this

14:46

happened. Okay, if you wonder why we have statute of statutes of limitation,

14:52

why do we have statutes of limitation? Because memories faid people make it

14:56

right, because they just make stuff up. Some people do. I'm not saying anybod but he did. I'm not saying they did. They didn't.

15:01

But here's the thing. If somebody says, well, within the last two

15:05

years, you did you you did whatever? Okay, chances are you still

15:11

have some friends around who can remember what you were doing on the night of

15:15

the thirteenth with the poker, with the with the fireplace poker. It's what

15:22

I'm talking about, you know what I mean. Like you ever watched Perry

15:24

Mason. Oh this is great. It was always the murder did it with

15:28

the fireplace poker? But anyway, the point is right, if you alleged

15:33

somebody did something bad and and you say when it happened, then the person

15:39

can say, uh, well maybe somebody did that. Heck, do I

15:43

know I took a wrong turn at Albuquerque and I was that was somewhere else

15:50

at the time, and I can prove it, right, I'll get you somebody Sam out there and Bugs Bunny and the rest of the crew, and

15:56

they'll all prove that I had you know, I was out in the middle

15:58

of the desert, you know, with the road runner whatever. I mean,

16:03

at least within a couple of years, you can prove what you were

16:07

doing. And the more serious stuff, right, well, then we have

16:11

an interest, the government, the people the rest of us have an interest

16:17

right and serious stuff. We say, well, yeah, you know, you may not be able to remember it three or four years later, it

16:22

may be more difficult. But this is a really serious, important thing that

16:26

you did bad, and so we're coming after you for it. Okay,

16:30

So a misdemeanor, misdemeanor, small bad thing that you did, A small

16:33

bad thing that you did. It's a bad thing. You shouldn't have done

16:37

it, and it's against the laws. You're a bad person for having done

16:40

it. Right, But it's not murder, you know, it's not terrible.

16:45

Right, it's bad, but you know, after a year or two

16:49

or three whatever it is, Yeah, it's pretty hard to figure it out.

16:53

And besides, then people could use the courts to persecute people. They

16:59

could do what would you want to call that? Law? Fair? Right

17:03

instead of warfare? Lawfair? Get it anyway, And we don't want people,

17:08

we don't want the government, you know, beaten up on people years

17:12

after something minor happened. Okay, so we're gonna give a fairly short,

17:17

fairly short statute. Limitations on that. More important things will make it longer.

17:22

Okay, So what if you didn't like a guy who had bad artificial

17:29

tan and fly around here for political reasons, I guess, or whatever reason.

17:33

He just offended you bringing peace to the Middle East and lowest black unemployment

17:37

ever. You didn't like those things, the booming economy and all the rest

17:41

that he had done. And you didn't like the fact that he had followed

17:44

the experts when it came to I don't know, national emergencies, global emergencies

17:48

involving viruses. The fact that he did exactly what the experts told him to

17:52

do, right, that makes him a bad person, of course. So

17:56

you can't tolerate that. And you say, who, I wonder if this

17:59

guy didn't bad stuff. And then you say, well, there was this

18:04

woman. This individual doesn't have to be a woman. There's this person,

18:08

could be nine binary, you never know. There's this person who said that

18:12

he did something bad right, and I wanted money, was going to go

18:18

to a newspaper, you know, the national, you know whatever, and

18:25

going to talk all about it. And he would just as soon as wife and kids and business associates not get a salacious story in a in a tabloid

18:34

newspaper. And so he says, look, I'll give you a hundred and

18:37

fifty thousand and just shut up, and I didn't do it. You're wrong.

18:41

I don't admit it. You know, you're making all this stuff up.

18:45

But it wasn't me. But but it's easier for me to pay out

18:51

one hundred and fifty two hundred and fifty thousand, whatever the heck it was. It's easier for me to pay you some money then to go through the

18:56

heartache. Plus I don't need my wife with the kid, you know,

19:03

going through this. All right, So hey, hey, lawyer over there,

19:07

can you take care of this little business for me? And the lawyer

19:10

says, the lawyer says, you bet your boss here, just here,

19:15

I'll send you the bill. Just give me some money and I'll take care

19:18

of it. So, acting on adviceive counsel, acting on an attorney's advice,

19:23

what the attorney told you to do. This is your attorney, and

19:27

your attorney said, here, I'll give you the money this way, give

19:32

me the money like this. We'll just do it like this. I'll send you a bill, you send me the money, I'll pay the money over

19:36

there right, Acting on the attorney's advice, you go ahead and do it

19:41

now. If you're acting on an attorney's advice. Are you committing a crime?

19:47

Do you have the intent? If you're acting? The attorney tells you,

19:51

here's how we do it, boss, and you say, whatever,

19:55

Look I got I'm building a building, I'm fixing the skating rink, I'm

19:59

doing all these other things, right, Why don't you take care of that

20:03

for me? Okay? And hey, make sure that it doesn't wind up

20:07

in the newspaper, because I don't need ten thousand more people saying bad things

20:11

about me that I got to pay them off to. And the attorney says,

20:15

here's my legal advice. Based on my legal advice, I will take

20:18

care of this business for you. All right. Now, the scene is

20:22

set up. Thanks for listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,

20:29

your family's personal attorney. David's got the how too you're looking for.

21:00

Just call seven four. This is the David Carrier Show. Welcome back to

21:07

the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney, living

21:11

in a post democratic, post republic form of government. Here we are uh

21:18

and taking your call six one six seven four twenty four. We've got Chris

21:23

on the line. Hello, Chris, Welcome to the David Carrier Show.

21:27

Good morning, Hey, good morning. So it is I got a question

21:33

for you. I found a small, uh parsonal property for sale for like

21:37

twenty five dollars. Talk to the owner of it, dealing straight with him.

21:44

How do you go? Yeah, doing the deed transfer and all that.

21:49

What's the matter is it? Like does it glow in the dark or

21:52

something? I mean, is it have you know? Is it Amityville horror

21:57

time there or what? I mean? What is it? It's uh,

22:02

it's up in the west end of the up So oh there you go.

22:12

Nothing wrong, Yeah, just just small cool. So I so here's the

22:18

here's the thing. Uh, the the transfer can be made with a deed

22:26

I don't know, for twenty five hundred bucks. If you would you do

22:32

a warranty deed on it, get him to warrant it. I wouldn't do.

22:34

I wouldn't do title insurance. I don't think you know, you do

22:40

a you do a deed, you know the p here's a problem. I mean, we like we charge you know, to do deeds. It's like

22:45

in the three hundred dollars range something like that, you know, recording and

22:48

all the rest. But That's why I'm wondering, do you have to go

22:55

through an attorney to do that or can you know you don't. It's like

22:59

so much of this stuff you know you don't have to have to. But

23:04

but it wouldn't be a bad I mean it's worth having, right, I

23:07

mean, you're doing it. You're gonna spend more twenty five hundred bucks driving

23:11

the RV up there for crying aloud, just to park it and look at

23:15

the sunset. I'm just saying, yikes, but you want it? I

23:25

yeah, you know. I I just hate monkey and with stuff like that,

23:27

because you know, the next thing you know, it's Jake clamp at

23:30

time you discover oil or uranium or lithium or god knows what on the property

23:36

and now it turns out you don't own it because you you didn't put the

23:38

right comment in the right place or something like that. I'm not saying you

23:41

can't do it. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying for a few

23:47

you don't want to do it. Quick claim Dean on it? Do you? I mean there's money. No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't do that

23:52

either. I would do it. Get the guy to give you a warranty d Now you also want to take I wouldn't do the title insurance. I

23:57

wouldn't go there. I wouldn't go that route simply because it's twenty five hundred

24:02

bucks. Now look it. If it's twenty five hundred dollars with a million

24:06

dollar view, as my father used to say, Oh look at you know.

24:10

Yeah, the house is cheap, but look we got this million dollar view here. Okay, fine, if that's the case, you really really

24:15

want it, and now you're going to improve it. Presumably you're going to

24:18

put some money into it. I'm gassing. I don't know. Then you

24:23

want to you would want to get a warranty deed from the guy. You'd

24:27

want to do it least, at the very least do a little bit of

24:30

a background check on it, you know, look on the maps. You

24:33

know. The nice thing is Michigan went to what they call a graphical information

24:37

system. This was I don't know, probably fifteen twenty years ago. And

24:41

so now instead of having the old maps and stuff, plat maps and what

24:47

have you with gaps in them, now it's all filled in, right,

24:52

I mean, you're supposed to know what the boundaries are. Unfortunately, they

24:55

are frequently conflicted with the existing boundaries. But now you know, so you

25:00

can take a look at the at the county plat map there and just see

25:03

do you have access to the road like that, so you're not getting a

25:07

link, very familiar with it. So okay, okay, then then yeah,

25:15

you know you want some I would say, spend the two three hundred

25:18

bucks whatever it is, get the get the attorney to do it, draw

25:22

up a warranty, d do a little a quickie uh, and you should

25:26

for two or three hundred bucks, you should be able to get a get

25:30

a uh A closing statement, you know what I mean, very simple buyer

25:34

closing statement, sellar closing statement. Uh. Land on one side, cash

25:38

on the other side, balanced out transfer there it is, so you've so

25:44

you've got that, You've got that, and you've got the deed. I

25:47

wouldn't go with the bare deed alone. You go with the bear deed alone,

25:52

and then there's too much possibility when you do discover lithium on the property

25:56

or whatever it is that oh, now the ears come out of the woodwork.

25:59

Oh wasn't really a sale. He beat him up and made him sign.

26:03

Or whereas with the closing statement. Now you got something, you got

26:07

a little you know, a little short by cell Grim. I'm selling you this. You're paying that right. You know you both signed that it could

26:12

all be done at the same time. It's only twenty five hundred bucks.

26:15

So you sign off saying I want to tell you this. You say,

26:18

I want to buy it. Very simple, and here's the closing statement.

26:22

You know, the buyer side, the seller side, and you do the

26:25

deed and you know you'll be out of there for under five hundred bucks and

26:30

you'll know that you actually own the damn thing. You don't have to worry

26:33

about it. I wouldn't do titles for twenty five hundred bucks. And again

26:37

I keep saying this. You know, if it's if it's mountaintop property and

26:41

the guy's you know, who's who's the uncle on Heidi? You know what

26:45

I mean? The guy living up in the mountains and you know, doesn't

26:49

quite know what he's doing. He's giving you the whole mountain or something,

26:52

or the peak of the mountain, I don't know, something like that.

26:56

If it's that valuable, right right, then then it's worth doing. It's

27:00

it's you know what I mean. I mean it sounds like you've got a

27:03

great deal, even if it's just an r V pad, you know,

27:06

and in place to park your RV and or go commune with nature and then

27:08

naked, you know, you get naked and commune with nature up there.

27:11

Sure, if that's what you want to do, hey, yeah, just

27:19

give yourself a sheet some sheep dip, you know what I mean. Yeah,

27:22

swim swim through the trough like the sheep do. But anyway i'd spend

27:30

to go through. You don't have to go through a title office then and

27:33

all that you just no, no, no, have an attorney right this

27:36

up and then yeah, and there's probably some guy up there will do it

27:40

for you. We do it for you. It really, anybody can do

27:42

it for you. You know. Anybody who's done this sort of thing before,

27:47

you know, it's not gonna be any big It's not gonna be any big deal for him. That is what I would do. I would I

27:55

would make sure the attorney did that. I'd want them on the hook for that. And nowadays, you know, it used to be you had to

28:02

you know, you you'd mail it in, But a lot of us are

28:06

doing electronic filing these days, so you know, you just send it digitally

28:11

and you get right back immediately that the thing's been recorded and you just don't

28:15

have to worry about It's great. You know, we don't like it,

28:18

Okay, we just have a real good h real good attorney like you,

28:22

you know, common sense and so on. And then he retired and the

28:27

uh the new one on last deal that we did turned it into a several

28:32

months long process for it was ridiculous for what it was. But yeah,

28:37

so I got a little I'm a little gun shy on that. But yeah,

28:41

yeah, we'll get him to quote a fie up front, you know

28:45

what I mean. Just say, I want to buy sell agreement. I

28:47

want simple buy sell agreement. I want buyer and seller closing statements. I

28:52

want the deed recorded. I want you to file the property transfer affidavit because

28:55

you need that and what else that's that that should be it. But be

29:03

sure to get to be sure to be sure that the property transfer affidavits included.

29:07

You want to do that? Okay, Okay, very good? Thanks

29:11

Chris? You you bet you? Bye? Hey, Bill, how are

29:15

you pretty good? Great? Hey, if you don't mind, we've only

29:22

got like, uh, well, go ahead, tell us what's up,

29:25

and we'll get back to it in the next segment if you don't mind. Okay, So what's going on? Okay? My son's in a nursing home.

29:34

He's got Medicaid Medicare insurance and they pay him about nine thousand plus a

29:41

month for him to stay in that nursing home. And now they went eight

29:45

hundred and five dollars of his Social Security check more to be paid monthly to

29:52

them or they're going to evict him. Just can they do this? He's

30:00

on medicaid. You say, Medicaid medic carry How was it all right?

30:07

We're gonna have to We're gonna have to sort this one out. Generally speaking,

30:11

if you're on Medicaid, they only let you keep sixty bucks. Anyway,

30:15

Did he get a bump in his Social Security and now they're trying to

30:18

get that back? Is that it? Yeah? Get to social Security check

30:22

every month? Yeah, I tell you what. Let's let's go through this

30:27

when when we get back from the break. Okay, we'll have some That

30:32

music means I need to get out. Okay, thanks Bill, you're listening

30:34

to the David Carrier Show. On David Carrier. Your family's personal attorney sometay

30:53

David's perking and working and taking your calls. Now this is the David Carrier

31:00

Show. Welcome back to the David Carriers Show on David Carrier, your family's

31:07

personal attorney, living in the post democracy, that does the United States of

31:11

America post republic, formerly formerly a nation of lawss formerly but here we are.

31:18

We're talking to Bill and fortunately the law still applies on some of the

31:22

some of the smaller stuff like long term care. And Bill's son is in

31:26

a long term care situation paying nine thousand dollars a month that's being picked up

31:32

by Medicare to some extent. Medicare doesn't typically pay for that, and Medicaid,

31:37

which does pay for that, pays for the long term care. And

31:42

then I guess it's so he's dual eligible. And then the question is why

31:48

did the bill go up? Why did is what they call a patient pay

31:51

amount. Generally speaking, when you're on the Medicaid in a long term care

31:55

facility, Medicaid allows you, gives you a patient allowance, allows you an

32:00

allowance. Patient allowance is sixty dollars a month, which hasn't gone up since

32:07

you know, you know, hmmarabi code back when the Roman Empire fell something

32:14

like that. Anyway, it's it's never gone up very little, thank god,

32:17

you're not in Pennsylvania where it's forty five dollars a month. But the

32:22

rest of it is supposed to go to is supposed to go to the facility,

32:27

that's the patient pay amount and bill. What you're saying is that they

32:30

just bumped it by eight hundred dollars eight hundred five dollars. Am I am?

32:34

I tracking here? I understanding this. Yes, So my question is

32:42

how does he have eight hundred and five dollars to give to them when they

32:46

should have been sucking it all up like right along. That's that's I'm not

32:52

getting it. That's the part of it. He's been receiving as close as

32:55

security check, which goes into his credit and your wife and I've been we've

33:02

been paying bills for his house, to keep his house alive for him to

33:07

come home to, and now they want to they want to take it away

33:12

now so he won't have a house to come home to. Yeah, So

33:19

here's the So, here's the issue. Here's the problem. Right, everybody

33:22

knows quote unquote everybody knows that Medicaid doesn't take your house. Medicaid doesn't take

33:29

your automobile. Okay, what nobody tells you except me. Uh, what

33:36

nobody tells you is you don't get any money to pay the taxes, the

33:38

utilities, the upkeep, the insurance, all those things that you're spending money

33:45

on. You don't you don't have any money to spend it on those.

33:47

In fact, we had a case now two years ago where they dinged us

33:52

for the ding the client, uh for registering the car. Well, you

33:57

can't have a car parked out in the yard plates on it. Okay,

34:00

they didn't care. They said, no, no, that's not allowable expense.

34:05

That's a divestment. That's a gift. It's like how in the world.

34:08

And they painted the house. That was another gift, is what they

34:12

said. Let alone the fact that once you are on on the Medicaid,

34:16

once you're in a facility, their their view is, hey, we're we're

34:22

spending all the money, we're paying for everything that you need. You don't

34:25

need the house, and because you don't need the house, you can't pay

34:29

the taxes on it, you can't pay the utilities, the up keep, et cetera. That's the that's the bottom line when it comes to UH,

34:37

when it comes to medicaid. So it's not a surprise that that the Department

34:44

of Health and Human Services is telling you, hey, you got to that's part of his patient pay amount. Now, there are a couple of ways

34:51

out of that. I don't know if I say a couple of ways,

34:53

but there are. There are a couple of responses that we have had to

34:58

that. Now I don't know the ability of you and the missus is to

35:02

be paying those expenses, or maybe there's a brother or sister willing see because

35:07

here's the trap. Here's the trap, right, you don't And this happens

35:12

every year, and we see like half a dozen of these things every every

35:15

single year where you can't get anybody to pay the taxes and after you know,

35:21

you get the notices, oh we're going to forfeit your house, and then finally, you know, come up with the money or we're doing it

35:27

tomorrow. And that's how a lot of people lose their houses, even though

35:31

they say, oh, Medicaid protects the house, No it doesn't. It

35:34

does not. You've got to you've got to come up with the tax money.

35:37

And if you're in utilities and insurance all the rest. And so what

35:43

happens is then people sell the house. Well, what happens when you sell

35:45

the house, Now you're off the Medicaid for nine thousand dollars a month right

35:51

until the money from the sale of the house is all gone. So a lot of people want to protect the house. And the way you do that

35:57

if you've got the money, if you've got the money, is by loaning

36:02

your son, right, if it's eight hundred dollars a month, then what

36:07

you do is what we've done, is you do a home equity line of

36:12

credit against the house. Where you bill. You are the bank, the

36:19

bank of Dad, okay, bank of mom and Dad. And whenever you

36:23

pay the bill, it goes against the ticket against the house. It goes

36:28

against the line of credit against the house. And you say, well,

36:31

the hell good does that do? And the answer is not much right now.

36:37

But if ever, you get to the point and many many people do,

36:43

where your back is totally against the wall and you gotta sell the thing,

36:46

at least you get your money back. At least you get back the

36:51

money that you put into it DC. And so that's kind of a routine

36:55

thing for us whenever we have kids, and usually it goes the other way,

37:00

right, I mean kids trying to hang out to the homestead. Mom

37:04

and dad's in the nursing home. All the money's going to the nursing home.

37:07

There is no money to pay the taxi, utilities, up keep, et cetera, insurance, and so the kids will put the money up.

37:15

And here's the most bitter thing of all. This is the worst of all

37:19

is because frequently they don't do any paperwork on this thing. They just do

37:22

it. You know, they love mom and dad and you know, oh,

37:27

when they die, we'll get you know, the house will sell and I'll get paid back. And that does not happen. And the reason it

37:32

doesn't happen is because when mom or dad, because they didn't plan for any

37:37

of this stuff, right, and they're not willing to do the simple steps. Okay, so now mom or dad in the nursing home dies, right

37:45

now, we have to go through probate. Right. And when we go

37:47

through probate, now we sell the house. Well, who do you think

37:51

wants their money back? MEDICID wants their money back? All right, You

37:54

got to avoid probate in this situation, To avoid what's called estate recovery.

38:00

And what that means is you're you're putting this money good money after bad.

38:05

You'll never see another nickel of it. It won't come back to you unless

38:08

unless you plan ahead. But that happens. All that's that's a routine.

38:14

Everybody knows it. I mean, it's a routine occurrence that the you lose

38:20

the house, and the money that the kids put up to help preserve the

38:22

house, they lose that as well. Well, it doesn't have to happen

38:27

to you. It doesn't have to happen. And the way we avoid that,

38:30

if you've got the wherewithal to do it, is again we put that

38:35

home equity line of credit where you are the bank. You're the one putting

38:38

the money out, and you're charging it against the house. So eventually you'll

38:43

get your money back. The other thing is, and this is tough if

38:47

if he's looking to come back home, but it might you know, who

38:52

knows it might work. It might be okay, is you if you rent

38:54

the house out, they let you keep sixty percent without going into the accounting

39:00

of it. Let's say you rent it out for one thousand dollars a month.

39:04

Well, you can keep four hundred has to go to the nursing home.

39:07

But then let's keep the other six hundred right off the top, you

39:10

know, without explain, just for administrative expenses, and you don't have to

39:15

prove it on an ongoing basis. In many situations over the years, that

39:20

has been the case that the expenses were more than sixty percent of the rent

39:25

that they were bringing in. And so if you prove, hey, I

39:30

had actually nine hundred dollars of expenses a month out of the thousand, then

39:35

you've got to prove it to them. But if you do, then you

39:38

can pay it for the expenses and only pay them the extra hundred dollars,

39:43

you know, if those that's the way the numbers work out. The point is, don't give up. You don't have to give up. You don't

39:49

have to give in. You don't have to just pay the money and hope

39:52

for the best. That's the worst thing you can do. If you look,

39:55

if you evaluate it, you do have some options. They're not great.

40:00

I'm not saying they're great. Not great options. You'd think, well, if I can keep a house, if you let me have a house,

40:05

then you let me pay the taxes on it. Oh no, we

40:07

don't. So if there's the music again. So Bill, if you want

40:13

to hang on through the through the news, we'll we can wrap this up.

40:15

Okay, you bet, Thank you, thank you. You're listening to

40:21

the David Carrier Show on David Carrier. Your family's personal attorney. Understand