0:05

Hi, I'm Pete, good judge, and this

0:07

is the Deciding Decade.

0:13

On this podcast, we have talked with so many

0:15

remarkable current and future leaders,

0:18

some as young as thirteen years old,

0:20

who have given us great hope for the decade

0:23

and century ahead of us in

0:25

today. To close out this series, I wanted to speak

0:27

with one of the most recognizable leaders of our

0:29

time, someone who has dedicated her life to

0:31

service, someone who's built wisdom through

0:33

decades of experience, and someone who

0:36

channels all of that into the important work of encouraging

0:38

people to organize, stay engaged, and

0:40

run for office. Someone who is helping

0:42

to shape the decades ahead. It

0:47

is a real honor to have Secretary Hillary Clinton

0:49

as our final guest in the Deciding

0:51

Decade podcasts. A trailblazing attorney,

0:54

first Lady of Arkansas, first Lady of the United

0:56

States, Senator, Secretary of State,

0:58

presidential candidate, author, activist,

1:00

wife, mother, and grandmother, Secretary

1:03

Clinton is one of the most accomplished public

1:05

servants that this country has ever produced. And

1:07

though you know this already, I can't introduce her

1:09

without pausing on the meaning of

1:11

the fact that in two thousand and sixteen she became

1:14

the first woman ever to be nominated by a

1:16

major party for the American presidency. She

1:18

has inspired generations and women in the United

1:20

States and around the world to believe in

1:22

themselves and to reach their highest potential.

1:25

To be gutsy, as she and her daughter

1:27

Chelsea often say, I have been personally

1:29

inspired by her barrier breaking work, her

1:31

command of the issues that face our country, and

1:34

her unstoppable dedication to service.

1:36

Secretary Clinton, thank you so much for joining

1:38

Oh it is such a pleasure to talk to you, and I'm

1:41

honored to be I guess

1:43

your last guest for

1:45

this season of your new podcast. I

1:47

couldn't think of a better way to

1:50

wrap up the year. And you know, we call

1:52

it the Deciding Decade because it's really

1:54

about how the decisions that are being made

1:56

now are going to shape the trajectory of the country.

1:58

And that's one of the things I really want to explore

2:00

with you. But I want to begin with news from

2:02

this week. This week began with you, as

2:05

a member of the Electoral College, casting your

2:07

vote for Joe Biden and Kamala

2:09

Harris. I think you and I agree that

2:12

the US would be better off without the

2:14

Electoral College as a matter of policy as

2:16

a personal matter, if it weren't for the Electoral

2:18

College, you'd be the president of the United States right

2:20

now. So I wonder what was it like

2:22

to go through this process, to be an elector

2:25

and to have that chance to cast

2:27

that vote. It was incredibly

2:30

moving to me, Pete, because I

2:33

feel like we are at such a

2:36

pivot point in our country, and

2:38

you're so right about the name of your podcast.

2:42

The decisions that we now have an opportunity

2:44

to try to make thanks

2:46

to the outcome of the election, are going to be

2:48

so consequential, because frankly, there's

2:51

a lot of damage to repair as

2:53

well as trying to get you back

2:55

into big bold ideas.

2:58

And so when I was asked if I would

3:00

be a member of the Electoral College,

3:02

I paused for a minute because I've

3:04

been on records since two thousand

3:07

advocating for its abolition.

3:09

I think it has long out lasted

3:12

any usefulness that it

3:14

had. But at the same time,

3:16

I thought it would be a good signal

3:20

that we were all coming together

3:22

to participate in this historic

3:25

constitutional ritual.

3:28

I could not have guessed how the

3:30

attacks against the integrity

3:32

of the election would play out,

3:35

and how desperate Trump

3:37

and his enablers were to try to overturn

3:40

the results. Um So dropping

3:42

that ballot in for Joe Biden

3:44

and a ballot in for Kamala Harris made

3:47

it feel like, Okay, we're really

3:49

ready to move on, uh,

3:52

from what we've had to live

3:54

with the last four years. You

3:57

know. I remember studying in the UK,

3:59

which is considered at a constitutional country

4:01

constitutional monarchy, but UH never

4:03

wrote their constitution down and I thought

4:06

that was the strangest thing to try to get my head

4:08

around. Only to realize, I think in

4:10

the last year or so, how much

4:12

of our system depends on the

4:14

unwritten rules, like the

4:16

idea that when you're defeated,

4:19

you concede. It doesn't say anybody has to

4:21

do that. It doesn't say officially what what happens

4:23

or doesn't happen. And yet we've learned how important it

4:25

is for our democratic

4:28

legitimacy, how somebody who

4:30

who's defeated in an election act

4:32

and uh, I wonder what you think it will

4:34

take to shore up some

4:36

of the dimensions of our democracy

4:39

that are really only protected by

4:41

everybody believing in them and everybody abiding

4:44

by them. And if we don't, they can all fall apart.

4:47

Well, you're absolutely right, and he wrote a

4:49

whole book about the glue that

4:51

holds a system like ours together,

4:54

namely trust, and there's

4:56

very little of it right now. It's been badly

4:59

damn edged. And I think what

5:02

President elect Biden is trying to do is

5:04

to lay the groundwork for unifying

5:06

the country. It's going to be incredibly

5:08

hard because of all of

5:11

the misinformation and poison

5:13

that has been injected into

5:15

the minds of so many Americans, but

5:18

he is absolutely right to try.

5:21

I think you have to bolster that. In addition

5:23

to setting an example and demonstrating

5:25

with the values and the standards

5:27

the norms as we like to say should

5:29

be, we might have to take a hard look

5:32

at trying to pass legislation that

5:34

put up some more guardrails. And I'm

5:37

sorry about that. I wish I weren't even

5:40

contemplating it. But you know, there

5:42

are certain things, uh that

5:44

maybe we haven't passed on

5:47

as we should or taught

5:49

in school or civics. UH,

5:51

that should be just assumed.

5:53

You mentioned one like you have every

5:56

right to make a fair argument

5:58

against an outcome of an election if

6:00

there's evidence, uh and facts

6:02

to back it. Up. But when there isn't,

6:05

it's time to retreat

6:07

and concede. From what I know

6:09

talking to people on the Biden

6:11

transition, they're very

6:13

focused on an agenda to protect

6:16

our democracy, to protect our elections,

6:18

and I hope that they're going to be able

6:21

to enact a lot of that because we're

6:23

gonna have to change some of the expectations

6:26

and the behaviors so that you know,

6:28

people get used to once more understanding

6:31

what the rules are and accepting

6:33

them no matter who says what on social

6:36

media. It's going to be so

6:38

important, I think for us to find that

6:40

that ground truth that we can trust in, knowing

6:42

that that that information and misinformation

6:45

is swirling around. And like you, I've seen

6:47

how intentional President Elect Biden has

6:49

been about trying to prepare

6:52

us as a country for that. Um, speaking

6:54

of the groundwork that that's being laid, I

6:56

also wanted to ask

6:58

you for advice and way that I would

7:00

be doing even if we were just on the phone instead of

7:02

on a podcast. Uh So, right about

7:04

the time this podcast comes out, we're

7:07

expecting to officially make the announcement

7:09

that will be nominated as Secretary

7:11

of Transportation for the new administration, and so

7:14

you were a cabinet secretary, one of the most

7:16

visible cabinet secretaries in my lifetime. Um,

7:19

And the question I want to put to you is what

7:21

does it take to be a good and effective

7:23

secretary and the president's cabinet. Well,

7:26

first of all, congratulations, I'm

7:28

thrilled by the news that you're

7:31

going to be nominated, and

7:33

hope that your confirmation

7:35

is smooth and quick so that you can

7:38

assume the responsibility.

7:41

I think it takes you know several things,

7:43

and you're well acquainted having been

7:45

in an executive position as

7:47

mayor, running a city government,

7:50

and then of course running a presidential

7:52

campaign, which is quite an undertaking.

7:55

First of all, you have to do the work.

7:57

You have to really immerse yourself

8:00

into transportation policy, into

8:03

the workings of the Transportation Department.

8:06

I had been involved

8:08

in foreign relations international

8:11

matters for quite some time before

8:14

President elect Obama asked me to be

8:17

Secretary of State. But I

8:19

was blessed to have a great

8:22

briefing prepared for me. The

8:25

transition team, cooperating

8:27

with the outgoing Bush administration, was

8:31

ready and willing to give me a

8:33

very in depth education quickly

8:36

about how the state department

8:38

actually worked, not just the

8:41

outside view, but from you know, the ground

8:43

up. You should do exactly the same so

8:45

that you are the master of your brief

8:48

because first and foremost, you've

8:50

got to demonstrate in any of

8:52

these cabinet positions that you're

8:54

going to be a good steward. You're going to lead

8:57

and manage a diverse, complicate,

9:00

aided department, and you're

9:02

going to be really grounded

9:05

literally in what it's going to take

9:08

to get results. Secondly,

9:10

I think working with the incoming administration,

9:13

you have to set some goals. What is it

9:15

that the President will want

9:17

the Department of Transportation to do? Clearly,

9:20

just from my looking at it,

9:22

from this perspective, you're going to

9:24

be part of climate change. You have to be part

9:27

of the overall administration

9:29

approach to climate change. You have

9:31

to be part of trying to

9:33

restore confidence in public transportation

9:36

post pandemic. We cannot deal

9:38

with climate change, we cannot get

9:41

essential frontline workers to their

9:43

jobs if people are

9:45

afraid to take public transportation. What

9:47

is that going to take and how much of an investment

9:50

is required. I hope that you'll

9:52

be given the chance

9:55

to advocate for high speed

9:57

rail for other kinds of

10:00

transportation that will,

10:02

you know, set us in good stead

10:04

for the future. And then you know, finally you've

10:06

got to deal with all the legacy. You've got to do everything

10:09

to make sure that uh

10:11

you know, roads are maintained and bridges

10:13

are fixed, and you've got

10:15

to look hard at what happened

10:18

with the f a A and it's

10:20

hasty approval of the

10:23

last big Boeing jetliner. All

10:25

of that is in your bailey

10:28

wick now and so the nuts

10:30

and bolts getting it to run well, immersing

10:33

yourself and understanding how it works

10:35

now, coming up with how it should be

10:37

changed to work better in the future,

10:40

and what are the signature issues that

10:43

the President and you want to

10:45

elevate. Uh So it's a

10:47

great time. I mean, autonomous vehicles

10:49

are coming online. You've got

10:52

all sorts of advances

10:54

in powering transportation

10:57

that I hope the federal government can

10:59

help accelerate. So

11:02

you're in a great place to help

11:04

shape the kind of future that we

11:06

hope to have. You

11:24

know, one of the things I'm really looking forward to

11:27

is the chance to engage with a

11:30

lot of mayors coming with the mayor's eye view

11:32

and a lot of states and I know that

11:34

even though most of the country got to know you as

11:36

a national figure, you were deeply involved in

11:38

state and local government policy and

11:41

advocacy. You co founded Arkansas

11:43

Advocates for Children and Families. You chaired

11:45

the Arkansas Educational Standard Committee.

11:48

I wonder as we come into the twenties,

11:51

how do you think the role of state and local government

11:53

in politics has evolved and what

11:55

you think some of the opportunities ahead are. I

11:57

think that's such a great question, Pete, and I

12:00

am a huge believer in the

12:02

laboratories of democracy concept,

12:05

both at the state and local level. We need to try

12:07

different things. We need to learn

12:10

from what states and cities do we need to try

12:12

to take successful initiatives

12:15

to scale. Um. I was really

12:17

lucky in my work

12:19

in Arkansas. You mentioned two things that

12:21

I was involved in, UH and

12:24

I combine that with a lot of

12:26

my more national endeavors

12:29

chairing the Legal Services Corporation, sharing

12:31

the Children's Defense Board, because

12:33

there is nothing like that experience,

12:36

like, okay, practically, how

12:38

do we go from point A to point B?

12:41

And what are the impediments?

12:43

Because you have to know

12:45

how state and local government work, especially

12:48

if you're at the federal level. Otherwise

12:50

you can have the grandest of ideas,

12:53

but even if you pass a piece of legislation,

12:55

it may or may not be successfully

12:58

implemented. UH So you're

13:00

bringing to your federal

13:03

service in the cabinet that kind

13:05

of local experience. And of course

13:08

it shouldn't make you a naysayer

13:10

they go, oh, you know, it didn't work here and therefore

13:12

it can't work anywhere. But it should inform

13:15

especially new and bold ideas

13:18

about what could work. How can we

13:21

uh make federalism work better?

13:23

For example, what are the

13:25

big ideas and who's been working

13:28

on them in local communities.

13:30

I served for um my

13:32

Senate years on the Environmental

13:35

UH Committee, and for

13:37

reasons that were interesting. UH

13:40

we had the

13:42

responsibility for the highway bill

13:44

and for transportation, so within the

13:47

the ambit of the jurisdiction of

13:49

the Environmental Committee, we

13:52

had to reauthorize highway bills, we

13:54

had to reauthorize uh

13:56

public transit money. UH

13:58

So I learned a lot about

14:01

what the federal government used to do. I

14:03

can't speak for where it is now four years

14:05

after the Trump administration,

14:08

but you should, you know, get really

14:10

briefed up on all of this and I know that

14:12

the Transition has terrific people that

14:15

can do that for you. It's part of what

14:17

really excites me is is plunging into that. And also

14:20

the fact that, you know, like local government, it's

14:23

a relatively non ideological

14:25

field, at least it ought to be. Anything as we've

14:27

learned. I mean, even public health measures

14:29

can can become part of an ideological But

14:32

this is something that pretty much everybody wants to see

14:34

happen. Better, smarter, greener infrastructure,

14:37

job creation that comes with it. You know, infrastructure

14:39

has always been at least among the American

14:42

people, maybe not always on the floor of the Senate,

14:44

but it sometimes takes you know, just hammering away.

14:46

And I remember when bike trails

14:49

rails to trails were really

14:52

controversial and the committee on on which

14:54

I served, but there were a dedicated

14:56

group of people who just kept raising

14:58

it every time and up saying, you know,

15:00

we need more uh, you know, bike

15:03

access into towns

15:05

and between communities and the rest. And

15:08

you know, when they started, you know, people kind

15:10

of you know turned away from them and rolled

15:12

their eyes. But now we can see

15:14

the results of the kind of steady,

15:17

insistent advocacy. Uh

15:19

that can change, can change communities

15:23

in my view, for the better. It's it's

15:25

a great point. You know, as mayor, I benefited

15:27

from what was clearly decades of pushing

15:29

a boulder uphill because by the time I arrived

15:31

in the early part of the last decade there, you still

15:33

took a push. I took like a heat for advancing it, but

15:36

there was much more energy for that. So it's a good

15:38

reminder that that kind of change can happen and

15:40

uh, and you can be in a position to do

15:43

something about it. And and one last thing

15:45

that that you know, I would just add

15:47

is make sure that the

15:49

briefing you get looks at good

15:52

ideas from around the world. Uh.

15:54

You know, oftentimes we

15:56

don't take advantage of the trial

16:00

and error that's gone on in other countries

16:02

about how to move people around

16:05

and what the choices are and

16:07

the financing uh happens

16:09

to be. So you know, be

16:11

sure that you've got that international view.

16:14

I mean, I know it's a hard sell. It's hard to go

16:16

to Congress and say, well, you know, in the European

16:18

Union or in Japan or China, because

16:21

you know, nobody wants to hear that. They want to hear. Okay,

16:23

I want to talk to me about America. But

16:25

if you have a good basic

16:28

understanding of what's working elsewhere,

16:30

then you can look as to how to americanize

16:33

it. How how would it work? What are some other

16:35

ways of dealing with connectivity

16:38

and getting people from one place

16:40

to the next in a cost effective way,

16:42

And how much does any government have

16:45

to subsidize that? And to be fair,

16:47

we have totally subsidized the automobile

16:49

industry in so many ways for

16:52

so many decades. And obviously

16:54

we subsidize the airplane industry, and

16:57

we don't do it to the extent that we used

16:59

to. And we actually had, uh,

17:02

you know, specific rules about how many flights

17:04

had to go into certain small airports to keep them

17:07

alive. We have moved away from that. But

17:09

we should be thinking about what makes

17:12

for a good livable society

17:14

and you know, maybe readjust

17:16

our thinking about the you know, the cost

17:18

we're willing to pay in order to

17:21

create a much more functioning,

17:24

productive society. And in

17:26

a lot of rural areas, that helps

17:28

to attract and keep businesses. You can get

17:31

there faster, you can get in and out faster.

17:33

So I think it's all part of a big

17:37

um you know, hub of issues

17:39

that you're gonna have a great time diving

17:42

into. Yeah, the point about rule

17:44

communities is I think really important too, because

17:46

this is something that cannit together literally connect

17:49

rule the moment when we have such kind of political,

17:52

social, cultural, economic divisions

17:54

between different different kinds of communities. And

17:56

you know, I think about it from the perspective of my

17:58

own community, South Been. I mean, our city is named

18:01

after a bend in a river, and that

18:03

waterway created trade routes,

18:05

and then our community really

18:07

emerged around the

18:09

transportation industry, around vehicles,

18:12

train rail lines made

18:15

the industry possible around

18:17

here, and then literally direct jobs

18:19

from that industry is as workers

18:22

in this community built aeronautical components,

18:24

student Baker cars really built

18:26

us up and in today in different ways, but

18:28

today too that this is such an important

18:30

part of what's made life in in this part of the country

18:33

possible. So it's it's it's

18:35

a really exciting field, I think,

18:37

Oh, I do true. I'm very excited for you. One

18:53

thing I heard that you would begin

18:55

your days with on the trail was a

18:58

reflection on scriptures. Thing I didn't

19:00

realize we had in common. I wonder, how

19:02

you know Democrats aren't known for wearing

19:04

our our faith on our sleeve. Uh,

19:07

and for a very good reason, I think, because you know, we're

19:09

very attuned, certainly in the LGBTQ community.

19:12

Just as one example, we're attuned to

19:14

the harms that can come when when somebody seeks

19:16

to impose their interpretation at their religion

19:18

on someone else. But I sometimes wonder

19:20

if we lose something as a party by by not

19:23

being as forthcoming about how so many

19:25

of us come at faith. Um, how

19:27

do you a purse that? How do you How did you decide

19:30

how and when and whether to to talk about

19:32

your own faith? Um?

19:35

It was sort of an evolving um

19:38

process for me, UM, because

19:40

I've always been a person of faith, and I've

19:43

always really

19:46

uh drawn great strength

19:48

from uh not only personal

19:53

UH advisors, clergy

19:56

and thought leaders in UH

19:59

faith related subjects, but also

20:01

from a lot of the reading that I've done.

20:04

And you're right that somehow

20:07

religion has been cast

20:10

as a partisan enterprise where

20:14

if you don't believe certain things, then

20:17

uh, you can't be a religious

20:19

person, and in particular a Christian. You

20:22

know, that's just not what I believe, and it's

20:24

not what I was taught, and I don't think it's right,

20:26

um, but it's hard to stick

20:29

your neck out if you believe that people

20:31

are just gonna take all kinds

20:34

of pot shots at you. And the

20:36

other side, the on the religious divide,

20:38

if you will, UM, is so dogmatic

20:41

and so well organized that they,

20:44

I believe, have as part of their

20:47

agenda to delegitimize

20:50

anyone who claims to be a person of faith

20:52

who doesn't ascribe to their political

20:55

partisan beliefs. So I

20:57

think we have left the the

21:00

playing field to the other

21:02

side. And you know, maybe

21:05

one thing that you can think

21:07

about is to find like minded

21:09

people within the Biden administration and

21:12

try to think through how best

21:14

to present what to me

21:17

is a an authentic understanding

21:20

of one's faith and the complexity

21:23

of it. UH, that would

21:25

do justice to our

21:27

beliefs and and you know, I

21:30

mean just trying to figure out how to

21:33

bring basic values,

21:35

principles of faith UH

21:38

into everyday language and experience,

21:41

because the other side basically

21:44

is the faith of fear, and

21:46

I was always raised with the faith of

21:48

hope and love, and so you

21:50

know, for me, you know, being understanding

21:53

and compassionate about our complexity

21:56

and our differences is something that we're

21:58

called to do, but we need people

22:01

to work together to convey

22:04

that more effectively. So we give

22:06

you know, more grounding to those who

22:09

are people of faith like us, but don't fall

22:11

into the category of politicized

22:14

religion right now. So you're

22:17

also a veteran of the U. S. Senate, which is

22:19

a challenging place

22:22

in the best of times, a place

22:24

we we don't know yet whether we're going to have a Senate

22:27

or or divided government. But

22:29

anyway you cut it, the president elect is

22:32

going to face a real challenge bringing people together.

22:34

Every member of his administration in every

22:36

area will face that. What do you

22:39

think is going to be the most important

22:41

in order to succeed? And how do you separate

22:43

you know that the areas where there really is

22:45

some hope of getting getting people

22:47

to the table from the areas

22:49

where where you just

22:52

have to watch out for bad faith. Yeah,

22:55

it's it's going to be very hard. I think

22:57

it's one of, you know,

22:59

Joe by his biggest challenges because

23:02

his instincts have always been to bring people

23:04

together, find common ground, work

23:07

out some kind of acceptable

23:10

compromise. And I'm

23:13

amazed at what some

23:16

of the members say that I actually served with

23:18

I was there for eight years. I was both

23:21

in the minority and in the majority. And

23:24

when I when I hear people say

23:27

things who I worked with, I

23:29

found common ground with. I sponsored

23:31

legislation with UH that is

23:33

so uh negative and extreme,

23:36

it's really surprising and

23:39

saddening to me. So I

23:41

don't think there's any alternative

23:43

to good old fashioned relationship building,

23:46

because I think that a lot of the work

23:50

that needs to be done can only,

23:52

again to go back to the theme of your book,

23:55

be built on some kind of trust

23:58

that is personal, and then you can

24:00

go from there. But I've also been

24:03

thinking a lot, and I've recently seen a few articles.

24:05

You know, we got rid of earmarks

24:09

because they were abused, and you

24:11

know, the famous bridge to Nowhere, and everybody

24:13

thought it was such a great achievement

24:16

to you know, end that kind

24:18

of abuse of the public

24:21

trust. The problem is

24:24

that we didn't have anything to substitute

24:26

for working together. So, for example, when

24:29

I was a Senator, I worked with

24:31

a Republican member of the House who

24:34

represented Buffalo, the

24:36

Buffalo area in New York to

24:38

earmark money to help a

24:41

local hospital expand its

24:43

research capacity. UM

24:45

it was, It was certainly worthy, it was

24:47

stood scrutiny. There was no funny

24:50

business. But it brought us

24:52

together. So we had a working relationship,

24:54

and it led to a lot of

24:56

local and state money and private money being

25:00

triggered by the federal investment which built

25:02

a research center.

25:05

Uh. And if

25:07

you don't have something that encourages

25:10

people across party lines and even

25:12

now within our parties to work together to

25:16

serve their constituents, then

25:18

it unfortunately leads

25:21

to number one, greater attention

25:24

to donors and very extreme

25:27

demanding interest groups. Because

25:30

that's who's knocking on your door. It's not the

25:33

mayor of Buffalo or the city council

25:35

member from Syracuse saying, you know, this

25:38

bridge is falling down and we need federal

25:40

help. It's somebody saying our

25:42

way or the or no way for you and

25:45

your You know, your donations are tied to what

25:47

we want you to do, etcetera. And

25:49

a lot of these members then were

25:51

left without a story to tell, you know

25:54

what, how are they spending their time? You know, they

25:56

can't point infrastructure, They can't

25:59

point to something has been done that

26:01

they had a hand in helping to create, because

26:04

it all goes through kind of nameless

26:06

formulas. So I've I've been

26:08

hearing recently that there is there

26:11

is talk on on both sides of the aisle, across

26:13

the political spectrum to try

26:15

to bring back what used to be called

26:18

air marks but can be sort of locally

26:20

UH driven projects

26:24

that would have to pass muster so

26:26

they couldn't be abused. But forcing

26:28

people to work together on behalf

26:31

of their constituents, because

26:34

right now you've got you

26:37

know, the Republicans basically captive

26:40

of all kinds of forces

26:42

outside themselves first and foremost Trump

26:45

Um, and you

26:47

know, they seem almost incapable

26:50

of standing up and speaking out

26:53

in favor of what's best

26:55

for their constituents, including what's best

26:58

for our larger UH

27:00

democracy. They've got to be equipped

27:03

with some things that enable them

27:05

to do that again. So you know, that's one

27:07

idea that's been thrown around, because

27:10

right now it is Um

27:13

who gets you know, who gets rewarded by

27:16

the you know, the supporters

27:18

and the interest groups that favor

27:21

favor you and that may or may not

27:23

have anything to do with your constituency.

27:25

I mean, miss McConnell's a perfect example,

27:28

man. He lives in one of the poorest states

27:30

where people have really suffered.

27:33

They've suffered under the pandemic, they've suffered

27:35

under the economy. He has

27:37

been resistant to providing additional

27:40

help. He seems mostly interested

27:43

in protecting a class of donors

27:45

who want to be free from any liability

27:48

if they get those you know, meat

27:50

lines and chicken lines and other kinds

27:52

of uh uh you know, work

27:55

going again. And somehow

27:58

we've got to break that tie,

28:01

and we need some civic

28:03

bottoms up engagement. I remember

28:05

when I was a senator. You know, people

28:08

would come to see me from across the state when

28:10

it was time to sort of come up

28:12

with what we were going to promote

28:14

that would, in their view, make life

28:16

better in their community. Um, and

28:19

they were you know, I would say worthy

28:21

projects, and you know,

28:23

you couldn't you couldn't recommend them all, you

28:25

couldn't fight for them all. But it got

28:28

people at the local level feeling like, you

28:30

know, I can I can count on somebody

28:32

in Washington listen to me about that

28:34

bridge that's going to collapse, or about

28:37

this you know, new uh education

28:40

center that we are hoping to build.

28:43

So yeah, I think we got to get back to

28:45

basics. Almost so part

28:47

of what you're talking about, I think is the reward system

28:49

that is that is so out of whack, but but

28:52

that you know, a healthy system

28:54

that rewards good policy and good work

28:56

leads to more action. The other thing you mentioned

28:58

is just interperson trust and seeing

29:01

each other as human beings, which is of

29:03

course especially challenging in national

29:06

politics. I wonder how you

29:08

reflect on maintaining

29:11

the humanity, uh that that you have

29:13

when you participate in politics, because

29:15

I think certainly, becoming as visible as

29:17

as you have become, you get reduced

29:19

to a cartoon character, a hero or

29:22

a villain. And I know,

29:24

even for me in my short time in uh

29:27

national politics, I was amazed by how

29:29

quickly I didn't feel anything. I felt like I was

29:31

the same person. I kind of got up,

29:34

you know, putting my twos honestly like seeing

29:36

general human being, but just the in both directions.

29:40

But but what's seeing kind of what the world are, certainly

29:42

the internet and Twitter. I have to say about

29:44

you, what have your ways

29:47

been of uh, just staying

29:49

rooted and grounded in who you are as a person,

29:52

and how do you keep that robust

29:55

to all of of these narratives

29:57

and images and everything that just kind of swirls

29:59

around you. The more visible you get. I

30:02

think that's an incredibly

30:04

profound question for anybody in the public arena

30:07

now with the you know, with social

30:09

media, it's not just in politics, it and every

30:11

walk of life. If you, um

30:14

are singled out or you have attention

30:17

for whatever it is you do. But speaking about

30:19

being involved in politics, what always

30:21

has kept me going is the

30:24

reward I feel from getting

30:26

something done that I can really

30:29

look at and feel like, you know, probably

30:31

but for my efforts, it wouldn't

30:33

have happened. Uh. That's particularly

30:35

true in the constituency

30:38

work that I did both

30:40

as first Lady and as a

30:42

Senator, because it

30:45

is so gratifying to find a

30:47

way to help solve somebody's problem.

30:50

And even if it's you know,

30:52

just one person

30:55

in one place, UM, it's

30:57

everything in the world of that person. Uh. It

31:00

matters, you know, more than anything that they

31:03

have this problem with the federal

31:06

government or some other uh

31:08

entity resolved. And

31:11

that reminds you, at least it reminded me why

31:14

I do this, because you know, there's a lot of

31:16

grief that goes with it, and so so

31:19

much made up stuff. I mean, you know,

31:21

I have just been constantly, uh

31:24

you know, just incredible

31:26

incredulous about the stuff

31:28

that is said and uh attributed

31:31

attributed to you. So you've got

31:33

to have some as you say, ground

31:35

truth. You've got to feel like you are um

31:39

doing this for the right reason, uh,

31:41

and that you stay as open as possible.

31:43

I mean it it is it is

31:45

not easy to sort

31:48

of take the slings and arrows, um.

31:51

But if you are comparing

31:53

yourself to somebody that is

31:56

really in a terrible spot, who has

31:58

all kinds of you know,

32:01

health problems, who's

32:04

you know, lost a child

32:07

to gun violence, whatever it might be, it

32:10

so helps you keep it in perspective. You you

32:12

can't you know, you can't

32:15

feel sorry for yourself. You can't say,

32:17

oh poor me, you know, they're so mean to me,

32:19

etcetera. You just have to get up every day

32:21

and say what can I do today? How can I make a difference?

32:23

And there's that uh great scripture

32:27

about you know, do not grow weary

32:29

doing good for a due time, uh

32:32

you will reap the harvest. You have to believe

32:34

that. You have to believe that you're part

32:37

of a larger movement of

32:39

people who like you. Um,

32:42

you know, want to be kinder, want to be more compassionate,

32:45

want to be more effective, just or fairer,

32:47

all the things that I believe

32:50

in, and that you're not gonna let the naysayers,

32:53

uh, you know, tear you down and stop you. There

33:02

is so much to be learned from the deep well of

33:04

experience that Sectary Clinton breaks from

33:07

the local and state levels in Arkansas, the

33:09

national level as presidential candidate, and

33:12

the international level as u S Secretary

33:14

of State. And I really admired what

33:16

she said about retaining her humanity while

33:18

in the public eye, how getting things done

33:20

for constituents, solving problems for people,

33:22

helping people really has kept her grounded

33:25

and motivated. And as I wrap

33:27

up this series with so much ahead for all of us,

33:29

I want to leave you with an extension of that thought. As

33:32

we work through the next few months, months

33:34

that will continue to be difficult, and the decade

33:37

ahead which demands so much of us,

33:39

I still believe more than ever that we're

33:41

on the precipice of a new and better chapter

33:44

and getting there is going to take imagination, boldness,

33:46

and inclusion, And every day is

33:48

a chance to draw those values

33:51

and that inspiration from those around

33:53

us. As a final word, I want to thank

33:55

my Heart for helping us bring this podcast to life,

33:58

especially are fantastic ex kid of producer

34:00

Christina Everett, who truly made it

34:02

all happen. And I want to thank all of you for taking

34:05

the time to listen. I've learned so much

34:07

and I hope you have to, and I'm looking forward

34:09

to continuing this journey together. For

34:14

more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit

34:16

the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

34:19

or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.