2:00

As a general rule, small towns

2:02

don't usually keep big secrets

2:04

for very long. Arcus,

2:06

Indiana, though, might be the

2:08

exception. This

2:17

is Amazon 17. A secret

2:19

concession.

2:26

During our year-long reporting on Darlene's case,

2:28

we spent our fair share of time in Marshall

2:30

County. We ate at local

2:32

restaurants, stayed at local hotels,

2:35

chatted up locals in small smoke-filled

2:37

bars, and even had hushed

2:40

conversations with local people in

2:42

libraries, coffee shops, and on street

2:44

corners. We thought we'd heard

2:46

it all,

2:46

but on March 13, 2023, four

2:50

days after we dropped the Deck Investigates

2:52

series, we got a tip via

2:54

email from someone with a story that we'd

2:56

never heard before.

2:58

For reasons you'll soon come to understand,

3:00

our tipster wanted to remain anonymous,

3:03

but here's what I can share. I

3:06

know for certain the people involved in the information

3:08

wouldn't want to be spoken to or included

3:11

in any investigation. I

3:13

also wouldn't wish to be identified or spoken

3:15

to by police or anything like

3:17

that. I'm not looking for enemies

3:19

or trouble of any kind, and I just don't

3:21

want to be involved in any of this on the record.

3:24

It's why I've held onto his name, but I was hesitant

3:26

to do anything with it. Now that

3:28

you're acquainted with how Marshall County law

3:30

enforcement operates, I hope you understand they

3:32

weren't going to do anything with the information anyway.

3:35

But for Darlene and her kids, if you

3:37

think it will help, I can provide

3:39

the name of someone who got drunk some years back and

3:41

confessed to one of my friends that he's the

3:43

one who killed Darlene. Over

3:46

the next few weeks, we built a rapport with

3:48

that tipster to get the man's name who reportedly

3:51

confessed to Darlene's murder. And

3:53

then we received another

3:55

email, also from

3:57

someone who wants to remain anonymous.

4:00

Hello, I'm reaching out about information

4:02

I have about the Darling Holes case. I'm

4:04

trying to keep calm typing this because I feel

4:06

this could potentially lead to the killer, and I really

4:09

mean it.

4:10

Please bear with me while I explain.

4:12

I'm from Indiana, and almost one year

4:14

ago, this person mentioned to me one day that

4:17

one of his friends was at a bar and there was

4:19

a gentleman sitting near him that started taking him.

4:22

It sounds like this man definitely had a couple drinks

4:24

in him, but after a couple conversations,

4:26

he told this person that he murdered Darling

4:28

Holes.

4:29

I don't have the exact details of how this conversation

4:32

went, but

4:32

this person knows of the man that told his friend

4:35

this. The man's name is

4:37

Jason, and he is from Argus, Indiana. If

4:40

you start digging, I believe you will find even more

4:42

crazy connections based on the land and areas

4:44

where he would have farmed and where he lived.

4:47

If we start digging. Now, were

4:50

these separate tips told me that the same

4:52

bar confession, or were there two confessions

4:55

at two different times? Honestly,

4:57

I still don't know the answer to that, but

4:59

I do know that these two separate

5:02

people named the exact

5:04

same man. Problem

5:06

was, our tipsters seem to have each

5:09

heard it like third hand. We

5:11

needed to get to the source. So

5:13

after promising anonymity, one of our sources

5:16

put us in contact with somebody next in

5:18

the chain, someone who heard it second

5:20

hand. They weren't the direct

5:22

witness to the confession, but they were one

5:24

of the people the witness told about the confession

5:27

right after it happened.

5:29

Our source didn't have that person's contact

5:31

information anymore, just a name, which unfortunately

5:34

for us was a super common one. So

5:36

it took quite a bit of sleuthing, but

5:38

we love sleuthing and we're good

5:40

at it. So we ended up calling

5:43

this person and gotta be honest, we're like

5:45

half expecting them to be like, wow, that's

5:47

wild, but I have no idea what you're talking about. Please

5:49

just leave me alone.

5:51

And we were half right.

5:52

They did want us to leave them

5:55

alone, but not because they

5:57

didn't

5:57

know what we were talking about.

5:59

That.

5:59

because it was clear they

6:02

were scared for their life, which

6:04

is why I won't

6:05

be using their name.

6:07

They didn't quote, want to say

6:09

for sure that I heard something

6:11

like that, end quote. This

6:14

person admitted that they used to frequent the bars

6:16

in Marshall County and that they would run into this

6:18

man in question, but they stopped short

6:21

of admitting that they heard the guy confess

6:23

to anything.

6:24

Instead they said they aren't inclined to believe

6:27

anything someone says at

6:28

a bar, especially if the person

6:30

was drunk.

6:31

But before rushing off the phone, they said

6:33

that they hope we cracked the case.

6:37

We were hoping that they would at least tell us when

6:39

and where this alleged confession happened

6:41

but no luck. Our thread

6:44

was effectively cut, but

6:46

that doesn't mean we were out of options.

6:50

We started researching the man who allegedly

6:52

confessed. Maybe we'd look into him

6:54

a little and it wouldn't make any sense and we

6:57

could walk away and focus on other things. But

6:59

then again,

7:00

maybe there was something here. Because

7:03

what we found was pretty interesting.

7:06

This man, I'm going to call him Jason,

7:09

but that's not his real name. He's

7:11

from Argus and would have been in his

7:13

20s in the mid 1980s.

7:15

He's 6'2, slim build and blonde. So

7:19

check, check, check. The

7:21

next thing we did is we did what we'd done

7:23

with every other person who'd come on our radar

7:26

in our initial investigation.

7:28

We found some photos of Jason

7:29

from the 80s and asked Marie

7:31

and Melissa to look at them.

7:33

We actually got so many emails from you guys

7:35

asking if Darlene's daughters recognized any

7:37

of the persons of interest we've explored. And

7:40

there's no easy answer. Because, I

7:43

mean, there have been features of all of these

7:45

persons of interest that have made their eyes go

7:47

wide. And they were almost clinical

7:50

in the way that they dissected them. This

7:52

part, yes, this part, I don't know. But

7:54

they've never been able to say, yeah, that's

7:57

the guy. So this time around,

7:59

we got some.

7:59

old mug shots and yearbook photos

8:02

of Jason, even found some old family photos

8:04

and sent them off. But

8:05

something different happened this time. Melissa

8:09

started physically shaken when

8:11

she first saw Jason's photo and

8:13

Marie was overcome with emotion.

8:16

So who is this guy?

8:19

We got his criminal history through a records

8:21

request and printed it out and it's

8:24

extensive. Just

8:26

his rap sheet in Marshall County alone

8:28

is several inches thick. It

8:30

includes stalking, intimidation, harassment,

8:33

disorderly conduct, protection order violations,

8:36

trespassing, even a death

8:38

threat. So then we went back to

8:40

Darlene's case file to search for his

8:42

name. Because according to Dr. Robert

8:44

Keple, who became infamous as a detective

8:47

from his investigations into Ted Bundy,

8:50

in 95% of cold cases, the

8:52

real perpetrator will be named in the case

8:54

file in the first 30 days of the investigation.

8:58

So I shouldn't have been completely

9:00

shocked

9:01

when we found his name.

9:03

I still was. What was

9:05

there though and why is a

9:07

bit of a mystery in and of itself. Now

9:11

full disclosure, there is nothing

9:13

indicating when these documents were

9:15

requested, received, or made by investigators.

9:18

Meaning I don't know when they made it into the case

9:20

file. So I don't know in what order they

9:22

even came. I can only guess. But

9:25

my best guess would be

9:27

that the piece of plain paper with some

9:29

handwritten notes on it came first.

9:32

At the top of the paper, there is someone's name

9:35

with an address and then quote, was

9:37

a TK driver for Yung Dor 1984?

9:41

Unquote. And guessing TK

9:44

driver in this instance means truck

9:46

driver. So this person

9:48

that is named, not Jason by the way,

9:50

this person was a truck driver for the

9:53

company Ron Holtz worked for. Now

9:56

under that someone wrote Jason's

9:58

full name.

9:59

An Argus address,

10:01

his date of birth, social security

10:03

number, a Plymouth address, and then next

10:05

to it, it says, quote, TK

10:07

driver on contract, potentially

10:10

implying that Jason was working as

10:13

a contract truck driver for Young Door.

10:17

Under Jason's name, it also listed another

10:19

address and listed the name of his employer,

10:22

along with, quote, old TK. Now

10:25

I've gone back and forth

10:26

on what old TK could mean.

10:29

I even took to the Crying Junkie Instagram stories

10:31

a few months ago to crowdsource what you guys

10:33

thought it meant. And the consensus,

10:35

which is just all of us guessing, is

10:38

that PK could mean pickup truck.

10:41

So maybe they were noting that that's what he drove

10:43

at the time. I mean, they were really interested in vehicles

10:46

because they were constantly looking for

10:47

that old rusty green car that the girls

10:49

saw. But according to this, maybe

10:52

he might have driven a pickup truck. Was

10:56

he a contractor for Young Door

10:58

though? It's very possible. Aside

11:01

from this cryptic handwritten note, we

11:03

also found a single

11:05

page from Chase Leasing Corporation.

11:08

It's a mileage and odometer log

11:10

with Jason's

11:11

name on

11:12

it. And through talking with the whole family, we found

11:15

out that Chase Leasing Company was the same

11:17

company Young Door worked with to find contract

11:19

employees. Anyway, if Jason

11:22

was working as a truck driver on

11:25

contract for Young Door in 1984, that would mean

11:28

he likely knew or knew

11:31

of Ron Holtz.

11:33

Now whether or not Jason

11:34

was a contract driver for Young

11:36

Door is TBD. But

11:38

we were able to find out what company he

11:40

was employed at, kind of on a regular

11:43

basis during this time. And

11:45

we found out he was working a trucking and delivery

11:47

job in 1984, delivering bathroom appliances

11:51

for a big bathroom manufacturing company

11:53

that was based out of Plymouth. And

11:55

that kind of made us wonder something else.

11:58

According to property records,

11:59

Ron built his family home on 20

12:02

B Road in 1979 and 1980.

12:06

We wondered if his bathroom finishings

12:08

came from that same company.

12:11

So we had Kristin call her dad Ron

12:13

to ask if he could remember where he

12:15

bought the tub and shower. And

12:18

sure enough, it was from the same

12:20

manufacturing company.

12:24

Now this is all tenuous at best. So

12:27

where was Jason at 9.30 a.m. on August 17th, 1984 when

12:32

a man was forcibly

12:33

taking Darlene from her home?

12:36

Well, according to the next thing we found his name

12:39

on, he was somewhere between Indiana

12:41

and New York.

12:42

Super helpful, I know, but bear with

12:45

me here while I explain.

12:46

The report I'm looking at is just a few pages

12:49

long.

12:50

It's not a police report or an

12:52

interview or anything like that. It's

12:54

Jason's work logs from August 16th

12:57

to August 19th of 1984. We

13:00

don't know why it's in the case file

13:03

or when it was requested or if anything

13:05

was done with it. But one could assume

13:08

it's here because police went searching

13:10

for his alibi. The logs

13:12

are on a printed template and handwritten

13:14

in the lines are the days and hours Jason

13:17

presumably worked that week. The

13:19

company he worked for, which I'm not naming on purpose,

13:22

was a big bathtub manufacturer in

13:24

Plymouth back in those days.

13:25

It's actually still around today, but it was bought

13:27

by a bigger corporation years ago. As

13:30

a delivery driver for them in 1984, Jason

13:33

was expected to keep track of his own hours

13:35

and mark his logs accordingly when he was on

13:37

the road, which included when he

13:39

was actually driving, when he stopped asleep,

13:42

et cetera. So according

13:44

to Jason's self-reported logs, he left

13:46

Plymouth on August 16th and headed

13:48

toward Riverhead, New York for a delivery. The

13:51

mile he entered would have had him stopping

13:54

overnight probably somewhere in Ohio

13:56

each way, which clearly puts

13:58

him out of town on August 17th. Jason's

14:01

own note says he arrived back in Plymouth

14:03

at 3.30 a.m. on August 18th and was

14:06

off the next two days until starting a new route

14:09

on August 19th and that's when the notes

14:11

cut off. His name appears

14:13

again on another document floating among

14:16

the 3,500 other

14:17

pages about Darlene's case

14:19

and this single-page report is also

14:21

related to his work.

14:23

It's an injury report

14:24

dated five days after Darlene's

14:27

murder on August 22nd 1984.

14:30

That's when Jason reported some injuries to his

14:33

employer and what's typed into

14:35

line 6, nature and location

14:37

of injury slash illness, is quote,

14:40

strained muscles and minor

14:42

bruises to ribs. According

14:45

to the documentation he said he got them

14:47

two days prior at 8 a.m. on August

14:50

20th while quote, unloading

14:52

double-tier of fiberglass tub slash

14:54

shower units at job site. There

14:57

is a place to list the names of those who

14:59

witnessed the injury but it just says employees

15:02

at the job site receiving the load of tubs

15:05

which is vague but in all fairness I don't expect

15:07

that he would know their names. For

15:09

all we know it was this injury that made

15:11

police suspicious of Jason because pretty

15:14

much everyone agrees that Darlene's

15:16

killer didn't leave unscathed when

15:19

she fought back but

15:21

it seems he has an explanation for that.

15:25

So far everything we have

15:27

it kind of all adds up makes

15:29

sense right? Even though the

15:32

trail of how we got from A to B to C

15:34

isn't there you can reasonably fill

15:36

in the pieces but this

15:38

next one is a complete mystery

15:41

to me. The next

15:43

page after that injury report is a

15:45

calendar for the month of August 1984.

15:47

It looks like

15:51

any old wall calendar that you might have seen or had

15:53

yourself back in the 80s. It's

15:55

branded with the NFL and Pepsi logos

15:57

in the top right hand corner and there are a couple

16:00

random NFL trivia facts sprinkled

16:02

on random dates.

16:02

There is nothing handwritten

16:05

on the calendar except

16:07

for three

16:08

little X's right next

16:10

to the date. One on August

16:13

17th, one on August 20th, and

16:15

one on the 22nd. So

16:18

that's the day Darlene was murdered, the

16:20

day

16:20

Jason claimed to have been injured,

16:23

and the day

16:23

he reported the injury to his employer.

16:27

Whose calendar was this? Where

16:29

did it come from? God,

16:31

do I wish I knew. I

16:33

mean, there's a world where a detective was maybe suspicious

16:36

of the injury and marked the relevant days

16:38

related to the injury itself and

16:40

Darlene's case, but if so, why? I

16:43

mean, all that stuff is written on paper already.

16:46

And if it wasn't, you could way more easily

16:49

just like hand write a note and throw it in the file.

16:52

So why put X's on your calendar, take

16:54

it off the wall, which it was on the

16:56

wall, by the way, because you can see the nail

16:58

or pinhole at the bottom of the August page

17:00

like it had been flipped. So why take the calendar

17:03

off your wall, flip it back to August, mark

17:05

the date, then photocopy it. It

17:07

would all make a little more sense if this

17:10

were a calendar somehow related to

17:12

Jason, and it'd be awfully

17:14

strange if he marked the day Darlene

17:16

was murdered, the day he says he was injured

17:19

on the job, and then the day he reported

17:21

it.

17:23

If police stopped investigating Jason

17:26

after looking at his work logs, I

17:28

could see why. He clearly

17:30

says he was out of town on the day Darlene

17:33

was killed. But I can't help

17:35

but wonder what they did in 1984 to

17:38

confirm those handwritten logs. I

17:41

mean, Jason was trucking by himself. We

17:43

know that because there's a line on his work

17:45

logs where you could list a co-driver and that's

17:47

blank. Now here's where things

17:50

get interesting. There is

17:52

one other report attached to his

17:54

work logs where it looks like they tried to

17:57

confirm his location by looking at

17:59

his self-reported. mileage. The

18:01

handwriting on it gets really faded, especially

18:03

as you go towards the bottom. And at first

18:05

we thought it's maybe too faded to even read, but I

18:08

had Emily print it out so we could take a closer

18:10

look. And what we found

18:13

was pretty unbelievable.

18:18

Etsy has it, everyone. Yes, it's

18:20

true. Etsy is where style

18:22

seekers, vintage hunters, longtime renters,

18:25

and new homeowners alike go to shop for style,

18:27

home decor, and gifts from independent

18:29

sellers. Are you looking for signature

18:32

jackets, handwoven linens, and personalized

18:34

jewelry for your wardrobe? Etsy has

18:36

it. Or maybe some stunning artwork, pillows,

18:39

and rugs for your home? Etsy has it.

18:41

How about gifts for any occasion, like

18:43

handmade throw blankets, mugs, totes, and

18:46

rings? Yep, Etsy has it.

18:48

There's so much to discover, and we can't

18:50

wait for you to find what your style-seeking,

18:52

home-upgrading, gift-giving heart desires.

18:55

Whatever it is you're looking for, whether

18:57

it's serveware and table linens for entertaining,

19:00

or a handbag and a perfect jacket to make

19:02

sure you're looking like your best self at any given

19:04

moment, this is your invitation to

19:06

find it because Etsy has it.

19:09

Find home, style, and gifts for you

19:11

for all budgets and any occasion. Etsy

19:13

has it. Shop Etsy.com.

19:17

Time for a quick break to talk about McDonald's.

19:19

Mornings are for mixing and matching at McDonald's.

19:22

For just $3, mix and match two

19:24

of your favorite breakfast items, including a sausage

19:26

McMuffin, sausage biscuit, sausage burrito,

19:29

and hash browns. Make it even better with

19:31

a delicious medium iced coffee. With

19:33

McDonald's mix and match, you can't go wrong.

19:35

Price and participation may vary, cannot be

19:37

combined with any other offer or combo meal. Single

19:40

item at regular price.

19:45

I laid Jason's driving logs next

19:47

to the faded mileage and leasing sheet. The

19:50

Chase Corporation lease sheet is what I

19:52

assume Jason kept because he was leasing

19:54

his truck. So that mileage and odometer

19:56

log would get turned into Chase Leasing

19:59

Corporation. And then his daily

20:01

driving logs would get turned into his supervisor

20:03

at the manufacturing company.

20:06

All that to say, I don't know that he

20:08

ever expected anyone to

20:10

be comparing the two.

20:12

So we started crunching the numbers to see

20:14

if the hours and miles that he was reporting

20:17

on his daily logs matched the odometer

20:19

readings on his leasing sheet. By

20:21

the time we were done, I was

20:24

fully convinced that Jason cooked his

20:26

books because things just weren't adding

20:28

up. But I wasn't so convinced

20:31

that it could be a smoking gun or anything. I mean, it was more

20:33

like maybe his math was wrong

20:35

here or maybe he took

20:37

longer routes here. Like, I couldn't—it just felt

20:40

wrong. So I pulled an audio

20:42

chuck COO, Bob, who is

20:44

much better with numbers than me or Emily.

20:47

He actually took the reports to his office, started

20:50

punching everything into Google Sheets, columns

20:52

for states, dates, the odometer

20:54

reports, plus listed time that he was off duty,

20:56

sleeping, driving, everything. And

20:59

he even got a map to fact check all

21:01

the miles. Bob Cross

21:03

referenced all of it.

21:05

And what he found was that none

21:07

of it matched up.

21:09

But he noticed something even more damning.

21:12

Jason's leasing log is a whole

21:15

state and a whole day

21:17

behind his daily driver logs,

21:20

which just doesn't make sense. Like,

21:22

it looks as if Jason just delayed

21:25

everything by 24 hours to put himself

21:27

across the country on August 17th,

21:30

when in reality, he could have absolutely

21:33

been back in Plymouth on August 17th, 1984. Listen,

21:37

I understand lying on the daily

21:40

driver logs because truckers back then will

21:42

be the first to admit that they didn't stick

21:44

to the 8- or 11-hour max driving

21:46

capacity that they were supposed to abide

21:48

by to

21:49

stay in compliance. Because

21:50

I mean, honestly, if you're two hours from home,

21:52

are you going to keep driving or are you going to stop for

21:54

the night? You're going to keep driving and

21:57

just say

21:57

that you stopped for the night.

21:59

What's the incentive to lie on the

22:02

leasing sheet?

22:03

I can't think of one.

22:05

Also, the odometer on his truck

22:08

would have shown the real mile, so it was

22:10

a big risk to lie.

22:12

So basically, Jason could have

22:14

easily gotten away with fudging his logs,

22:17

and he could have been back in Marshall County

22:19

by August 17th. So

22:21

this is something that, at first glance,

22:24

it seems like a strong alibi, but if

22:26

you really study

22:27

it, it's shaky at

22:29

best.

22:30

And I won't lie to you guys, I honestly was kind of

22:33

half-hoping that all of this would confirm

22:35

Jason's alibi, and we could call the alleged bar

22:37

confession

22:37

Argus Folklore.

22:40

But knowing this, we had to keep digging.

22:44

There were a few names of Jason's old employers

22:47

written on the work logs in the case file,

22:49

like the owner of the manufacturing company and

22:52

his manager from back then, but we

22:54

found out they're both deceased. So

22:56

we tried to call around to people associated with

22:58

some of the names and the reports from back

23:00

then. We even tried getting in touch

23:02

with the admin staff at the company to

23:04

see if they could give us Jason's employment history, but

23:07

that didn't lead anywhere, because like I said, the company

23:09

was bought out years ago, and it's a massive

23:11

corporation

23:12

now. So we were kind of

23:14

left with so many questions that we

23:16

needed answered, and no one

23:18

to answer them,

23:20

except Jason himself. I'm

23:24

a reporter

23:26

covering the Unsolved Homicide of

23:28

Darlene Hulson Argus, Indiana. I have

23:30

some questions for you, and

23:33

I wanted to see if you'd be willing to be interviewed. You can

23:35

call or text me back at this

23:38

number. It's pretty standard that we don't get

23:40

calls back. I

23:42

mean, Kenneth McEwen, Jr., or John Paul

23:44

Clark know that he's a real person, and

23:47

he's a real person, and he's a real person. I

23:50

mean, Kenneth McEwen, Jr., or John Paul

23:53

Clark never called us back. We

23:55

only got to them by showing up at their door,

23:58

but

23:58

in Jason's case, we...

27:52

our

28:00

source was even willing to talk to us, considering

28:02

I'm mostly used to people being defensive

28:04

when you try and talk about someone they know being a person

28:07

of interest in a murder. But

28:09

this person said thinking about Darlene's family

28:11

is what compelled them to reach out

28:13

to us.

28:15

If this is true, she needs

28:17

to serve time for it, and that family

28:19

needs justice, and they need to know why they

28:21

need to be told the trust and what's wrong.

28:24

So in the spirit of justice, we figured,

28:27

why not pass along everything we've

28:29

learned about Jason and let the

28:31

guys with badges take it from here? We

28:34

sent everything we learned to Prosecutor Chipman

28:36

and former Detective Dave Yoclet back in

28:38

April. Nelson sent a

28:41

two-word response and to our surprise,

28:43

it wasn't, fuck you, it was,

28:45

thank you. We gave Nelson

28:47

a month to see if he would do anything with the info,

28:50

but

28:50

we heard nothing, I mean crickets.

28:53

So in May, Emily emailed ISP

28:55

Sergeant Dawn Curl.

28:58

Hi, Sergeant Curl. I'm not sure if you remember, but

29:00

last summer I reached out trying to get an interview with

29:02

you about the 1984 unsolved

29:04

murder of Darlene Hulse. Over the course

29:07

of a year, I ended up doing several interviews with Prosecutor

29:09

Chipman. The information I'm

29:11

about to give you, I've also sent to him and retired

29:14

Marshall County Detective David Yoclet, but

29:16

I haven't heard anything from them. And since

29:18

this is an investigative matter and you're the investigator

29:21

assigned to the case, I want you to be aware.

29:23

I

29:24

think at the very least it warrants direct comparison

29:26

of DNA testing to the partial profile

29:29

ISP secured from Darlene's blouse with

29:31

help from the Cold Case Foundation.

29:34

Since our series about Darlene's murder, the DEC

29:36

investigates dropped, we've gotten hundreds

29:38

of emails from people with wide-ranging information.

29:41

But the tips I want to urgently bring your attention

29:44

to are a few emails we got from locals

29:46

who say Jason has confessed once or

29:48

twice to various people to killing

29:50

Darlene Hulse.

29:52

Since learning about this, we've shown Darlene's

29:54

older two daughters who were eyewitnesses to

29:56

the murder, Jason's photos from back then,

29:59

and their were notable, both

30:01

emotionally and physically, which is evidence

30:03

in and of itself. Jason

30:06

has an extensive criminal record, so the state

30:08

of Indiana might already have his DNA, but

30:10

the partial profile extracted from Darlene's

30:13

blouse isn't enough to put in CODIS.

30:16

I'm sure you know, but solving this will take direct

30:18

comparison testing. In FYI,

30:20

Jason also has an active warrant for his

30:22

arrest out of Marshall County, but I hear he's living

30:25

in Indiana. I know it will take

30:27

more than a rumored confession to prove this case,

30:29

so I tracked down the witness who heard Jason's

30:32

alleged confession. Would you

30:34

or anyone at ISP be up for a meeting? Again,

30:36

we just want to get these leads in the right hands and see

30:39

this case get solved.

30:41

Sergeant Curl responded three days later, saying,

30:43

quote, please provide the names and

30:45

contact information for the individuals

30:47

you have interviewed related to this information,

30:49

unquote.

30:52

Emily responded, saying it would be a lot easier to

30:54

relay the information in person, but Sergeant

30:56

Curl's response was, email is

30:58

fine. So rejected again.

31:01

But it was the first time that Sergeant Curl had ever responded

31:04

to any of our emails, so honestly,

31:06

I'll take that as a small win. A

31:09

month later, we know that Sergeant Curl did

31:11

call our anonymous Jason source,

31:13

because that person said Sergeant Curl asked him some questions

31:16

about Jason and his whereabouts

31:17

these days.

31:19

Our source said he also asked Sergeant Curl about

31:21

what he plans to test DNA-wise,

31:23

but he left the conversation feeling like Sergeant Curl

31:26

wasn't super interested in DNA. He

31:28

was more interested in the alleged confession

31:30

and getting witnesses to talk about it, which

31:33

I can appreciate. Even with

31:35

DNA, if anything's gonna go to trial,

31:37

you need a good investigation to back

31:40

it up, so I appreciate that he's doing the legwork.

31:43

I'm not sure what's happened

31:45

since then.

31:46

We reached out to Sergeant Curl again in July when

31:49

Emily was back in Indiana, asking him to

31:51

meet with us. We even said he could bring

31:53

a public information

31:54

officer with him, but this time we didn't get

31:56

a response. We had to know

31:58

if Jason was worth pursuing.

31:59

doing further. So we actually met

32:02

with private investigator Patrick Serpoli.

32:05

Remember him from episode 12? We

32:07

all had a mutual event

32:08

in Utah last spring. So Emily and I met

32:10

up with Zip one morning to chat about Darlene's

32:13

case and Jason from a behavioral

32:15

standpoint, which is Zip's specialty.

32:18

We told him everything we knew, the alleged bar

32:20

confession or confessions, the criminal

32:22

history, his work logs deep in Darlene's

32:25

file. And the thing that really stuck

32:27

out to him was the emotional

32:29

response Marie and Melissa had

32:31

just to seeing

32:32

his photo.

32:34

Well, that's that's that's these lines. And I've said

32:37

that to Don Curl when I talked to him years ago, that

32:39

you have eyewitnesses to this whole thing. You have

32:41

someone who physically saw him, even though she was eight years old,

32:44

they physically saw him. If you get that reaction

32:46

from them, this guy

32:48

fits, you and me and you'll see people they'll

32:50

never go back up. You know, for him,

32:53

he just doesn't need to go to

32:55

that level anymore. But the level of violence

32:57

that he has, level of crimes that he commits even afterwards

33:00

fit that level. So there was no intention

33:02

going to Darlene's house that day to kill her. The

33:04

intention was to rape her.

33:07

And it just went sideways.

33:09

Zip thinks whoever went to Darlene's

33:11

house at morning likely knew Ron wouldn't

33:13

be home. So either he'd been watching

33:15

their routine or it's someone who had

33:17

a way of knowing his schedule.

33:19

So, you know, him from work or you know him from

33:21

somewhere, but you know, the husband's not home. He's

33:24

by herself and have absolutely

33:26

zero care over those three kids. You're

33:28

going to do what you want to do. I don't give a shit about

33:30

anybody else. That's his attitude. But that's also

33:32

his future crime attitude. Also, I'm going to

33:34

do what I want to do.

33:36

Zip also wasn't surprised. We mostly

33:39

struck out trying to get interviews with Jason

33:41

or others who knew him.

33:43

Someone like this, I think that's why you have witnesses will

33:45

come forward, but they're not going to say that

33:47

they don't want to be the guy to point the finger and say that's

33:50

him. There

33:51

was an important distinction I wanted to make clear

33:53

about Jason's alleged bar

33:54

confession to see what Zip sought.

33:59

like it's drunken confessing, it's not like a

34:02

threatening idea that somebody did this, he's always like

34:04

super sad. Because again,

34:06

it wasn't planned. Like he wasn't,

34:08

he didn't go in there saying that I'm gonna kill this lady,

34:11

it was just not too far. And I think that's

34:13

when it comes out. And a lot of times too,

34:15

you know, it doesn't mean anything until you tell somebody.

34:18

And that makes it real. And I think that's why

34:20

sometimes when he's not intoxicated it comes out.

34:24

I just keep thinking, why

34:26

would this person who reportedly heard

34:28

this concession

34:28

just make it up? They

34:31

aren't friends with Jason or even the

34:33

same age or have beef or anything.

34:36

From what we've heard, they weren't even there

34:38

together. Just acquaintances in

34:41

the same small town when

34:43

one of them whispered something heinous that

34:45

the other has never been able to shake off.

34:48

And we're told,

34:49

even though it's third hand, that

34:51

it rattled this person so much he ran

34:53

home that night and immediately told his roommate

34:56

what Jason said at the bar. So

34:58

it seems like if it all was true,

35:00

there's no reason to lie about this.

35:03

But good investigations have to consider

35:06

every lead.

35:08

And while we waited to see if Jason would

35:10

come around to talking to us or if

35:12

the investigators would make any big moves, we

35:15

had more tips to weed through and

35:17

more people we needed to track down.

35:20

Which meant one more trip

35:22

back to Argus

35:23

to revisit a new brother in

35:26

a family that we've already told you about.

35:29

You ever seen the movie The Shining? Yeah, yeah,

35:32

that's pretty good. Is he violent?

35:35

Well, he's different.

35:45

That's next on episode 18,

35:47

our lingering

35:49

obsession. You can listen to

35:51

that right now.

36:00

podcast mystery? If you're an Amazon

36:02

Prime member, you can listen to top true crime

36:04

podcasts ad-free on Amazon Music.

36:07

All Amazon Prime members also get access to

36:09

the largest catalog of ad-free top podcasts

36:12

included with your Prime membership. Enjoy

36:14

shows like Morbid, Mr. Ballin, and

36:16

many more. To start listening, download

36:19

the Amazon Music app or visit amazon.com

36:22

slash ad-free. That's amazon.com

36:25

slash ad-free.

36:27

Time for a quick break to talk about McDonald's.

36:29

Mornings are for mixing and matching at McDonald's.

36:32

For just $3, mix and match two

36:34

of your favorite breakfast items including a sausage

36:36

McMuffin, sausage biscuit, sausage burrito,

36:39

and hash browns. Make it even better with a

36:41

delicious medium iced coffee. With McDonald's

36:43

mix and match, you can't go wrong. Price

36:46

and participation may vary, cannot be combined

36:48

with any other offer or combo meal. Single

36:50

item

36:50

at regular price.