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my favorite and thoroughly tested products. Welcome

4:24

to Dr's Pharmacy. I'm Dr. Mark Hyman. That's

4:27

pharmacy when they have a place for conversations

4:29

that matter. And today's podcast is on a

4:31

topic you may or may not have heard

4:33

about, peptides. Although you probably have heard about

4:35

it if you've ever heard about insulin or

4:38

the more recent peptide of note, ozempic. Now,

4:40

peptides are in our bodies all over the

4:42

place, thousands and thousands of them. And most

4:44

of us probably don't know what they are,

4:46

how they work, but they're critical in our

4:49

health. And Dr. Edwin Lee, our guest today

4:51

is an expert. He's an endocrinologist. He's an

4:53

author and he's founded the Institute for Hormonal

4:55

Balance in Orlando, Florida. He's a board certified

4:57

physician in internal medicine, endocrinology, diabetes and metabolism,

5:00

and has specialized training in regenerative and functional

5:02

medicine. He's a graduate of the Medical College

5:04

of Pennsylvania and finished his two fellowships, critical

5:06

care and endocrinology at the University of Pittsburgh

5:09

and is the author of many books. And

5:11

the latest one is called The Fountain of

5:13

Youth with Peptides. He's the lead investigator for

5:15

an IRB approved senolytic study, investing in the

5:17

role of peptides as well in our health

5:20

and the trial using BP157, an important peptide

5:22

for joint and bone and

5:24

muscle repair injected for knee pain. And

5:27

he's also works as an assistant professor at

5:29

the University of Central Florida College

5:31

of Medicine. And he's the co-founder of the Clinical

5:33

Peptide Society. So Dr. Lee and I dive deep

5:35

into this topic, which you may think is a

5:38

bit esoteric, but I encourage you to stay with

5:40

me because peptides are the future of understanding how

5:42

to regulate our biology using bioidentical molecules. Now, as

5:44

Zimpic, you've seen as the latest one, but there's

5:47

lots more. We're going to talk about some of

5:49

the most important ones. There's 7,000,

5:51

maybe more. There's ones like Time is Not

5:53

For One, BP157. We talked about what they

5:55

do in the body, how safe they are,

5:58

why the FDA is cracking. down on them and

6:01

how they can delay aging and reduce

6:03

inflammation. I personally use peptides with great

6:05

advantage and I encourage you to tune

6:07

into this really enlightening conversation with Dr.

6:09

Edwin Lee. So Edwin, it's great

6:11

to be here with you. We're at the

6:13

integrative healthcare symposium live and we're recording this

6:16

podcast about a topic that I

6:18

think is sort of captured a

6:20

lot of people's imagination, particularly longevity,

6:22

biohacking space, which is

6:24

peptides. And, and I

6:26

don't know if the average person even knows

6:28

what a peptide is, but who can I

6:30

get into what they are, but they're highly

6:32

prevalent in the body. They're things your body

6:34

makes to regulate almost everything that's going on.

6:37

There are little mini, mini proteins

6:39

essentially that are

6:42

the communication network of your body.

6:44

And they regulate every single function

6:46

from your hormones to

6:48

your brain function, to your immune

6:50

system, your sexual function, to tissue

6:52

repair. I mean, it's quite amazing

6:55

that we've kind of, you

6:57

know, gone this long in medicine without

6:59

really taking a hard look at peptides

7:01

in a, in a, in a conventional

7:03

way. Now there are things that people

7:05

know of as peptides that you don't

7:08

even know are peptides, right? Like insulin

7:10

is a peptide. Exactly. Ozmpic is now

7:12

the blockbuster drug of the day. And

7:15

that's a peptide. That's a peptide. So there's

7:17

a glutathione is a peptide. Glutathione is a

7:19

peptide. Yeah. So there's a lot of compounds

7:21

that we use in medicine that are peptides.

7:24

There's probably over 7,000 produced by the

7:26

body, right? Actually, technically

7:28

300,000. 300,000.

7:31

Okay. I was off by a few thousand.

7:33

But we only understand a fraction of it.

7:35

And outside in nature, there's,

7:37

I think, I estimate about

7:39

6 million peptides out there. That's

7:41

incredible. 6 million. I mean, a lot

7:43

from venoms and from animals and in

7:45

my book. Not in human

7:48

peptides, but other, other, other peptides. Oh yeah.

7:50

Dairy and, there's really amazing

7:52

spiders and just interesting creatures. Now,

7:54

what Atriod has a lot of

7:56

wealth of. As a functional medicine

7:59

doctor. and in regenerative

8:01

medicine, you know, in regenerative medicine, I

8:03

really love the idea of using bioidentical

8:05

molecules to support the body to do

8:07

what it's supposed to do. Oh, definitely.

8:09

Yeah, so there's, the drug is essentially

8:12

a new to nature molecule

8:14

that interferes or interrupts or blocks

8:16

some pathway in the body, and

8:18

there's usually downstream side effects. Petites

8:22

also can have side effects when using pharmacological doses,

8:24

like we're seeing with Ozimpic. But

8:26

these are biomolecules that have, we've

8:28

evolved over, you know, millennia that regulate

8:31

everything that's happening in our body. So

8:34

they're getting a lot of kind of

8:36

play in the longevity space to optimize

8:38

cognitive health, to rejuvenate your skin, to

8:40

help with tissue repair, to improve

8:43

sexuality, vitality, longevity. So

8:47

kind of take us from the top down, what

8:49

are peptides? How do they work in the body?

8:51

And how can they be used to treat disease,

8:54

optimize this health and rejuvenate our

8:56

biology? You did a great explanation

8:58

of peptides, but the way

9:01

I explained to my patients, Mark, is that peptides

9:04

are singly molecules, they're miniature proteins,

9:06

small little proteins that are made

9:09

of amino acids. And unfortunately, the

9:11

FDA has this arbitrary, just made

9:14

a clarification that under 40 amino

9:16

acids is considered a peptide,

9:18

over 40 is a biologic, and

9:21

then over 100 amino acids, traditionally has

9:23

been considered a protein. Yeah. And

9:25

it's not a length of basically how many amino

9:28

acids are put together. And

9:31

like I said, the body makes 300,000

9:33

peptides, we

9:35

only understand a fraction of it. And

9:38

anyway, it's really fun to read

9:41

the research that's out there. And

9:44

I just, I explained that

9:47

peptides to my patient is a

9:49

signaling molecule, it's short acting, and

9:52

it's like a doorbell ringing, someone

9:54

ringing your doorbell, that's a peptide and

9:57

a reaction is gonna happen, either your dog's

9:59

gonna bark. or someone's gonna answer the door.

10:02

So if you give a peptide to

10:04

basically help your immune system like thymus

10:06

and alpha-1, that's

10:08

gonna stimulate your immune system work better.

10:10

So that's a natural peptide produced by

10:13

your thymus gland. And as you know,

10:15

Mark, it's thyroid and thymus. It's always

10:17

patients, always get confused, but it sits

10:19

like in your chest and between your

10:21

lungs in front of your heart. And

10:23

I have some- Sweet breads, if you

10:26

like BL sweet breads. When

10:28

you go to the restaurant, you can't see your restaurant, they create

10:30

sweet breads. That's what it is, it's your thymus gland. I

10:33

didn't know that. You didn't know that. No, no, no,

10:35

interesting. I should order some sweet bread. So-

10:38

I wonder if eating it is actually good. I mean,

10:40

if you get any TA1 or peptides from eating it

10:42

after it's cooked, I don't know. Well,

10:44

they did a study, you probably read, that

10:47

basically they gave human growth

10:49

hormone and metformin, DHEA, and

10:52

the thymus improved. It

10:55

was only in men, so they were gonna do

10:57

another trial curious if

10:59

it's women. But anyway, if the

11:02

thymus gets healthier, your immune

11:04

system gets healthier. So that's one key component,

11:07

have a healthy immune system. So how

11:09

do they actually work? Are they like

11:11

binding to receptors and activating gene expression

11:13

and regulating various- Great question. Gene networks

11:15

in the body. Some peptides

11:17

are so small, like epithelid, it

11:19

can actually slip through and go

11:22

through the nucleus and interact with

11:24

the DNA through the histone binding

11:26

sites. Some

11:28

of these peptides were discovered by Dr.

11:30

Kavitsyn, who is from St. Petersburg, Russia.

11:33

He has probably like 40 years of

11:35

research of these wonderful

11:37

peptides. And unfortunately, he just passed away

11:39

a couple weeks

11:42

ago. So I'm really sad about that. I

11:44

have so many questions to ask. I

11:46

need to get asked. And I did have

11:48

a privilege to talk to him once, but

11:51

anyway, to me, he's like one of the

11:53

top scientists and he should

11:55

have got the Nobel Prize in medicine.

11:58

Yeah, it's quite amazing. But it also- in

12:00

certain receptors. So there's a group

12:02

of receptor called the G-protein couple

12:05

receptor. And most peptides

12:07

interact with that receptor

12:10

and basically it causes a cascade event. And

12:13

then basically it's like doorbell

12:16

ringing and then you get a cascade event.

12:18

Well it's like insulin. Insulin binds to a

12:20

receptor's cell and then kind of opens the

12:23

gate for the glucose to go in the

12:25

cell. And PLP-1 agonists do a similar thing

12:27

like Ozentbag. There's a

12:29

receptor. Yes, exactly. So

12:32

it's a general class called the G-protein

12:34

couple receptor. There's one the Nobel Prize

12:36

in medicine, the G-protein couple receptor. Yeah,

12:38

yeah, incredible. So there are about 150

12:41

peptides now out of the 300,000 that

12:44

are being researched

12:50

for medical applications, right? And

12:52

there's over 80 peptides that are already approved

12:55

by the FDA for medical

12:57

use. What are

12:59

the kinds of things that people should

13:01

be aware of that peptides work well for

13:03

or maybe even better than traditional therapies?

13:07

Well, in my neighborhood, all

13:10

my neighbors ring my doorbell and they

13:12

have some type of injury. So they

13:14

just point to where they need a

13:16

peptide injected. So they point to their

13:18

shoulder or to the elbow, their foot,

13:20

their ankle. So I have every day

13:22

someone's ringing my doorbell to get a

13:24

peptide shot. But I usually give BPC157,

13:27

which is one of my favorite peptides. It

13:30

comes from her stomach, stomach

13:32

fluid. And actually, the history

13:34

is kind of interesting about that peptide.

13:36

It's, I

13:39

really, anyway, I

13:41

can go into that, but it was really same to discover like in

13:43

1990s in Croatia.

13:46

Yeah. And anyway, I actually

13:50

published the first human clinical trial and

13:52

it peptides a lot of research

13:54

in animals, but I'm conducting

13:57

two more human clinical trials. which

14:00

is really exciting. That's amazing.

14:02

So BB157, for example, is

14:04

a peptide that the

14:06

body produces. I'm

14:08

assuming it's made synthetically in the lab by

14:11

putting together the sequence of amino acids. The

14:14

sequence of amino acids and

14:16

they put together that string of amino

14:18

acids. So it's a bioidentical molecule. So

14:23

it's like making testosterone in the lab or making very

14:25

small. And then

14:27

BB157, let's just sort of unpack that

14:29

because that's a very popular one. I

14:32

personally used it. I've had a bicep tendonitis.

14:35

I was doing some strength training and

14:37

kind of irritated. And I'm like, well, I'm

14:40

just gonna shoot some BP157 in there. I

14:42

did a couple of shots and it went away. And

14:45

it was impressive. And

14:48

I've used it for other things as well and

14:50

found them really very effective. For

14:52

immune function, when I had COVID, for

14:55

example, I used TA1 as a peptide, I used it

14:58

in my patients. BB157,

15:00

let's sort of just unpack that for a minute.

15:02

How does that work in the body? When you

15:05

inject it, for example, systemically in

15:07

your subcutaneous fat in your abdomen, or if

15:09

you have an issue with a particular muscle.

15:12

A tendon tear. When you a tendon tear,

15:15

you inject it into that. What's actually happening?

15:17

Well, for tendon tear, muscle tear, or even

15:21

like I inject in a patient's joints and

15:24

they have a tear. What's interesting

15:27

is that the

15:29

one classic study that was done

15:31

is they had these

15:33

rats and they cut the Achilles.

15:37

That sounds fun. So poor rats

15:40

and basically one group basically got BPC

15:42

injection in their stomach and other group

15:44

just got placebo. And the group that

15:46

got injected into their stomach in a

15:49

month later, they were walking again. And

15:52

you don't see that in nature. It

15:55

doesn't kill by itself. It's going together.

15:57

Exactly. This was the first thing that was

15:59

shown. He was like, wow. So for

16:01

my son, he had basically

16:03

he was in high school, he was

16:06

a cross-country team, he had a six-pack,

16:08

he was just born to run. He's

16:11

developed basically an ITB injury, ill-reticular

16:13

band, and he couldn't even walk.

16:16

Your ITB, I recall it, right?

16:18

Yeah. So he just could not even get

16:20

in and out of the car. And

16:22

I told him that he was in ninth

16:24

grade. And I said, son, I can inject

16:27

BPC into your leg. And

16:29

he said, you aren't effing doing that. So I had

16:31

to show him some slides. And

16:33

I showed him the rat. I had to show him

16:35

hard data. And he goes, OK,

16:37

you can inject. And then literally, he was,

16:40

I don't know, 15 at that time. He

16:43

quickly recovered. And like a week

16:45

later, he was running again. That's amazing. It's

16:47

amazing. So it

16:49

actually helps. There's multiple

16:52

theories on how it could

16:54

help. But number one, it reduces inflammation.

16:57

It recruits your immune system to basically

17:00

heal. But the one part is there's

17:02

a receptor called the fat-clin

17:04

C receptor that activates

17:07

your growth hormone receptor. So it's a

17:09

pathway to help growth hormone receptors to

17:12

be activated so that whatever growth hormone

17:15

you have, you can actually heal faster.

17:17

So growth hormone is really involved in

17:19

healing and repair. Exactly. It's

17:21

an antibiotic hormone. But you need

17:23

the receptors. And that's what BPC-15-7

17:25

does. And there was a

17:27

study that once they stopped it three days later,

17:30

they still had high expression of growth hormone receptors.

17:32

So if you use growth hormone peptides

17:35

with basically BPC and TB4,

17:37

you will heal much faster. So I have

17:39

people, I have so many patients who've had

17:41

all these massive injuries. Like a test of

17:44

morel and some morel and peptides, you mean

17:46

for adding? Yeah, yeah, CGC1295,

17:48

test of morel and yes, I think they

17:50

can all help heal faster too. Amazing. So

17:53

it works by helping for growth hormone. There

17:55

may be mechanisms actually we don't really understand

17:57

yet. Exactly. What you said in the rat

18:00

was interesting. injected into the abdominal fat. Right.

18:02

It's a signaling molecule. So it basically tells

18:04

the body to... But it didn't have to

18:06

inject into Achilles' head. They did not inject

18:08

even near the... Does it work better if

18:10

you inject it near the site? Yes, it

18:13

always does work better. But that study was

18:15

truly mind-blowing in the belly of

18:17

the rat and the Achilles' tail. That's quite

18:19

amazing. And in

18:22

some ways, peptides

18:24

are used to treat injury

18:27

or illness. Right?

18:30

Like, for example, BP157 or insulin. Ozempic,

18:33

you could say, would be something that would be

18:35

a semiglutide peptide that would be used to treat

18:38

obesity or diabetes or to help

18:40

with various things that it helped

18:43

with. But

18:45

many of the peptides are not really

18:47

treating disease so much as bioregulators

18:50

that regulate our

18:53

bodily functions to optimize them.

18:55

Right. Right? And my favorite

18:57

one in regards to bioregulators

18:59

is epitalins. Yeah. E-P-I-T-H-A-L-O-N.

19:01

And that was discovered by Dr. Kappelsohn.

19:03

And so for example... Four amino acids

19:05

peptides. Four amino acids. It seems like

19:07

what would it do? It comes naturally

19:10

from our pineal gland. Yeah. As we

19:12

get older, like our thymus gland, it

19:14

will calcify and will shrivel up. And

19:16

you lose melatonin and you

19:18

lose epitalin from the pineal gland. Ah.

19:20

And when you lose epitalin, what happens

19:23

is your cells that are supposed to

19:25

self-replicate get stuck in G2. So

19:28

there's self-replication. So if you want a

19:30

new skin cell, your body basically

19:32

can get rid of the old-sized skin cell and

19:34

then you generate new skin cells. Even

19:37

in our body, we can generate new

19:39

heart cells, new myocytes, new liver cells,

19:41

new pancreatic cells. But our ability gets

19:44

less. Yeah. We... Exactly. Because we're losing

19:46

epitalin. And epitalin basically turns on cell

19:48

cycle. It's the peptide to make you

19:51

younger. And I have

19:53

patients who have pre-diabetes or type

19:55

2 diabetes. Some of

19:57

them have reduction in their medication or even get

19:59

off the bed. their insulin. I

20:01

have patients who basically their macular

20:03

degeneration is improving. Their vision is

20:05

getting better. So it's actually making

20:07

you younger, but you can't self-replicate

20:10

forever because then you have discovered

20:12

immortality, which I haven't discovered yet.

20:16

Far from it, I don't think I'll ever do it,

20:19

but I'll never find it. But anyway, I have patients

20:21

that hurry up, Dr. Lee. But

20:24

Epitalin is just amazing.

20:27

I just love it. Is this something you take every

20:29

day? Is this something you take as a

20:31

cycle? That cavacin wants you to cycle it.

20:33

And so I have made my patients, which

20:37

is sad because the FDA has this on

20:39

the chopping blocks there too, in terms

20:42

of banning peptides. But you

20:45

can get Epitalin spray, which is actually

20:47

under the tongue. Under the tongue. Normally,

20:49

you have to inject the peptide. The

20:51

problem is that there's so many on

20:54

the internet. But if you can get

20:57

from Russia, the original one, cavacin. Sure,

20:59

there's not a lot of commerce going

21:01

back and forth with Russia. To China.

21:03

To China. Yeah. Yeah. The black market

21:05

for peptides. Well, this

21:07

one's a spray. And this one,

21:09

I trust Dr. Cavacin. Yeah. So

21:12

these are... I don't trust the other

21:14

ones. It's cavacin spray. So you

21:16

mentioned, for example, sort of Epitalin as

21:19

a bioregulator that controls or

21:22

self-replication, healing, repair.

21:26

And so they're not like treating a disease. Exactly.

21:28

So you get it. So what happens is...

21:30

The insulin can treat type 1 diabetes, and that's

21:32

great. But not all peptides are doing that. In

21:34

fact, most of them are not. They're actually

21:36

simply just enhancing function. Like PT141,

21:39

for example. Yeah,

21:42

we thought it's both peptides, same

21:44

type. Yeah, that's... For

21:47

better libido, better sex drive, better motor... It's

21:49

actually the approved for women's sexual distress. Yes.

21:51

Has been FDA approved for that. Yeah. And

21:54

it also works for men. Yes. I have

21:56

a lot of men and women on it.

21:58

So it increases desire. Oxytocin

22:01

is actually FDA-approved. Is

22:03

it peptide? It's a peptide. It's FDA-approved. Yeah,

22:05

so oxytocin is the love molecule. Like it's

22:07

a bond date. Like it's a breast when

22:10

you're after sex or when you are breastfeeding.

22:12

There's a lot of other benefits.

22:14

My nurse practitioner, Becky Murray, is going

22:16

to do a webinar, I

22:19

hope it's a monthly webinar. Not as popular

22:21

as yours. You probably have

22:23

thousands. I have only 30 people

22:25

following. But anyway. One day

22:27

I'll be as popular as you, Mark. Well,

22:29

let's see. There's no way. You're

22:32

like New York Times with a seller. That's

22:35

all right. Well, no one bought my books.

22:38

I bought your books. Actually, you know what? I

22:40

went on Kindle and it was free because I think it's probably

22:42

Kindle Unlimited. Oh, really? Yeah. I'm

22:45

going to take it off. I was going to buy it. I was like,

22:47

wow, Kindle Unlimited. This is great. This is

22:49

just crazy. I don't even know. I get

22:51

no belief. I've got maybe 10 cents a

22:53

year from the Amazon. Let

22:59

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27:39

let's kind of dive in a little deeper around

27:41

some of the use cases and

27:44

where you're finding the

27:46

top value for peptides in

27:48

clinical practice and for patients. What

27:51

are the ones you'd like to use? What

27:53

are they used for? Okay, number one that

27:56

I just truly love is if you want

27:58

skin GHK copper. Pickard

28:00

discovered GHK and it's a natural

28:04

byproduct. So when you have collagen

28:06

and basically breaks down, part of

28:08

it is GHK. So

28:10

GHK can turn on your fibroblast

28:13

to make more basically collagen and

28:15

hyaluronic acid and it can look

28:17

better. Yeah. And- You

28:19

don't have to inject it in your face, you can just put it in your abdomen? Well,

28:22

we have GHK copper topical.

28:24

Topical. Yeah. So I'm

28:26

not that smart, not that good looking, not

28:29

a great athlete, but I

28:31

have good skin, even though I live in

28:33

Florida and I've only been using sunscreen, but

28:35

I use tons of GHK copper. On your

28:38

face? Oh yeah, topical. I love it. Yeah.

28:40

And I tell all my patients- That's things like how you inject

28:43

it. Well, no, no, I'm talking

28:45

about topical, but you can inject and

28:47

for my father who has, who passed

28:49

away recently with a very aggressive cancer,

28:52

T cell lymphoma, sorry, small bowel, he

28:55

had a great life and he basically was

28:57

told, we really have like 30 days

29:00

to live, chemo

29:02

radiation won't work. And I said,

29:05

all right, dad, you're like basically in

29:08

a walker, let me give you some

29:10

peptides. And so before cancer, I mean,

29:12

there's several different peptides that

29:14

has a lot of clinical

29:16

studies. So Simon's Alpha 1 could

29:19

help- To help your immune system fight

29:22

cancer. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. As an adjuvant. So-

29:25

Not the cure, we're not saying it's a cure, what you're saying is- Yeah,

29:28

all the studies in the stage four, most

29:30

of them shows basically improvement of what, basically

29:34

longevity than the ingestion of

29:36

mortality. So, Simon's Alpha

29:38

1 has been used, you can

29:40

use basically metenthephalin, which

29:42

I was using, GHK copper turns off

29:45

also cancer genes, Epithelin

29:48

can also do that. So I

29:51

told my dad, you're gonna get some

29:53

peptides and I already drew it up. And

29:56

my dad goes, I don't want to, it's

29:58

like a story. He goes- I

30:00

don't want to live in it. And he goes, I said,

30:02

it's too late, Dad. Mom is going to inject you anyway.

30:06

So you can say whatever

30:08

you want. And we got eight great months with that. That's

30:10

amazing. So he went from

30:12

literally from a walker to walking

30:14

two miles a day, regained his

30:16

weight and all three peptides and

30:19

better nutrition too. Yeah, amazing.

30:23

So kind of going down again into the sort

30:26

of the rabbit hole of like, what are the

30:28

best use cases? What are the top peptides in

30:30

your toolkit? For

30:33

example, I know like my best supplements are

30:35

magnesium, vitamin D, fish oil, like those are

30:37

my go to probiotics. What are

30:39

the in your tool kit? I would say number one

30:41

is I love

30:43

BPC157. You

30:46

can take it orally. People with

30:48

reflux, it tightens the LES junction. I have

30:50

some people get off their reflux medicine. That's

30:53

the bottom of your esophagus where the kind

30:55

of reflux happens, comes back up from the

30:57

stomach. And there's not many things that tighten

30:59

LES junctions. Yeah, it's a lower esophageal sphincter.

31:02

Like a sphincter at the bottom of your

31:04

esophagus and that's loose and you get reflux.

31:06

As it comes up, you get reflux, gird

31:08

and all that. That's impressive. But

31:11

BPC has FYI.

31:14

I have people taking it and I

31:16

inject peptides in their elbow and a

31:18

month later they re-injure their elbow, but

31:20

they go, I've been taking that BPC in

31:22

my shoulder. I can sleep much better.

31:25

So it can improve your entire

31:27

body. So I call it the

31:29

wolverine peptide. So you'll

31:31

get younger. So you can grow

31:33

back. So you can say wolverine peptide. Some

31:37

people never watch for it. BPC157, that's the top of your list. So

31:40

we talked a bit about that and it's great

31:42

for injuries, for trauma, for tissue repair. And

31:46

I think it's one of the ones that I tend

31:48

to rely on because I think it really personally has

31:51

helped me and I think it helps a lot of

31:53

patients. What

31:56

other peptides are there? I love thymus and alpha-1

31:58

because as we get older, our thymus... the fine

32:00

misclange fribbles up and we're trying to basically help

32:03

the fine misclange, I mean your immune system get

32:05

healthier. And as you know Mark, you know, you

32:07

got to have a healthy immune system because once

32:09

it goes down, it goes to two ways. It

32:11

goes to cancer, it goes to infection. So we

32:13

got immunosynescence, which means the aging of our immune

32:16

system, which is why when you're older, you get

32:18

more infections, you can't fight them as well. You

32:20

dive pneumonia, you don't respond to all the vaccines

32:23

and you get, you know, looking at COVID,

32:25

the people who are elderly had the higher risk of death.

32:28

So I think you're talking about a

32:30

very important phenomena that we don't really

32:32

have a good treatment for with traditional

32:34

medicine. So generally I tell my patients

32:36

to use like 250 micrograms of

32:39

fine misclamps for one, like once or twice

32:41

a week, just as... Not

32:44

daily. You can use daily

32:46

if you're sick, like higher doses. Like you have...

32:48

You can have COVID or flu or... Yeah, my

32:50

wife one day, she goes... When

32:53

she gets sick, it's like, it's a nightmare because I

32:55

don't know when to drop the kids off. Do

32:58

I give them lunch money? Where do I pick them up? You

33:00

don't have the playbook for... I just... You don't

33:02

have the mom's playbook. This is the overdrive. So yeah, I

33:04

mean, so when my kids were younger, my

33:07

wife goes, I took everything, the C,

33:09

the D, the zinc, you know, silver,

33:12

coming down with something. And I said, she goes, you

33:14

have something else? And I go, yeah, yeah, in the

33:16

fridge, I have the thymosin for one. So I gave

33:18

her... Remember this clearly, way before

33:20

COVID, probably, I mean, 2016 or something

33:22

like that. So I gave her about

33:25

one milligram of thymosin for one. Next morning,

33:27

she went perfect. So I was like, thank

33:29

God. Because if she was sick, I

33:32

wouldn't know how to handle the kids. We don't have the

33:34

cure for the common cold, but if you take this, if

33:36

you start to feel sick, you know, when you get that

33:38

feeling, I think I'm getting sick and you take it, it

33:41

can be profoundly effective. Oh,

33:43

exactly. Exactly. Yeah. What

33:46

else besides the T1 and BP157? I love

33:48

Epitallin. Then generally, we

33:50

do five milligrams of sub-cube daily for

33:52

like 10 days. If you skip a

33:54

day or like the weekend, you forget.

33:56

That's okay. Just make sure

33:58

you finish the vials. So one viable have 55,

34:02

0 milligrams of Epitalin twice a

34:04

year. So you just do it twice

34:06

a year? Yeah, twice a year. So like 10 days, twice

34:08

a year, it's kind of a reset for your longevity. And

34:12

I have people like for me when

34:14

I was doing it, it's amazing. My

34:16

sleep, I was on melatonin every year,

34:18

higher and higher, higher doses. And

34:20

do you know Epitalin turns on three genes

34:23

of your pineal gland to make melatonin? And

34:26

my wife goes, how come you're not taking

34:28

melatonin anymore? It's like, I don't need it.

34:30

I can sleep without it. So it can

34:32

reset your pineal gland and help you sleep

34:34

better. So I love Epitalin because as we

34:36

get older... And

34:38

you mentioned the Russian version via the nasal strip, but

34:40

you can also take it... Not nasal, it's under the

34:42

tongue. Under the tongue. But you can

34:45

also do it through injection. Injections, we have

34:47

503A compound pharmacy prescription. Yeah,

34:49

amazing. And the... The

34:52

problem is that most people when they hear this,

34:54

they're going to get addicted to Epitalin. Do not

34:56

use it every day for the rest of your

34:58

life because you're going to stop the

35:00

magic in terms of self-aufication. Yeah. It

35:03

will eventually, like the Hayflick theory,

35:06

it's going to stop in terms of... It's

35:08

no longer going to work. Just because a

35:10

little bit's good doesn't mean a lot's better.

35:12

Exactly. So yeah, just be patient and don't

35:14

take it every day of the

35:16

year because it's going to eventually stop working. Now,

35:19

you know, the other thing that sort of happens as we get

35:21

older is we

35:23

end up with hormonal

35:25

changes. You know, lower

35:28

testosterone, we have, you know,

35:30

lower growth hormone, we tend to lose

35:32

muscle, we sort of age as a

35:34

result of changes in our hormonal environment.

35:38

And what's interesting, a lot of these peptides can be

35:41

involved in regulating hormone function.

35:43

Well, yes. There are,

35:46

like, in regards to women

35:48

that are done with...they're in post-menopause

35:50

or finished with menstrual cycle. Sometimes

35:53

I tell them, like, you may start your

35:55

period coming back. And if you get pregnant,

35:58

please mention me because I want to be famous. It's

36:01

quiet because I can't be famous like you, so I have

36:03

to go the other route. So

36:06

anyway, yeah, it's amazing. They go, my perimeter was gone

36:08

five years ago and I was coming back. So I

36:11

don't know how long it's going to keep on going.

36:13

But they've, in animal studies...

36:15

Using which peptide? Epitalin. Epitalin.

36:19

Yeah. So varying functions gets better.

36:21

So it works not just on the pineal gland,

36:23

but also... Other organs. Maybe the hypothalamus. It can

36:25

help the heart. Because

36:28

it turns on gene expression, which

36:31

is interesting. There's certain proteins that get

36:33

kicked off and things work. So epithelins

36:36

to me... That's a good one.

36:39

I love it. Maybe people are using other ones

36:41

like kystapaptin, which is for testosterone. Yes. Kystapaptin-10,

36:45

it may work like an adenal

36:47

relevant to help with testosterone

36:50

function. But yeah,

36:53

those are peptides that may or may

36:55

not work in men. It's

36:57

confusing because the data was IV

36:59

and they would do it like

37:01

24 hours per body weight.

37:03

And it's hard to convert that to...

37:06

Yeah. How much do you do

37:08

it sub-q? So anyway, I have

37:10

some guys with some better

37:14

testosterone level with kystapaptin. Then there's

37:16

the whole growth hormone category

37:20

of supportive peptides, like

37:22

testimorylin, CJC,

37:27

Filled95. Can you talk about those and

37:29

what role they have and what they do? Yeah,

37:32

there's really

37:34

interesting in terms of growth hormone peptides.

37:37

So I just

37:40

want to start off with, out

37:42

of all the side effects of all the

37:44

peptides, that class has the most common side

37:46

effects. Interesting. So it may affect about

37:48

20% of patients and they can't

37:50

take it anymore. They really get

37:53

welts in their injection sites and

37:56

then some people really get really bad rashes

37:58

and it's its entire body. So I

38:00

warn them that if you see a

38:02

whelp just growing, growing, growing to stop,

38:05

you're developing antibodies to it and you're

38:07

not going to be, even if you

38:09

stop and retake it, like six

38:12

months later it's going to happen again.

38:14

So your body doesn't like it. Now,

38:16

everyone, I had some people on for

38:18

five, six years and no reactions and

38:20

doing well. So they're

38:23

all very slightly, they're very similar,

38:25

but there's two receptors in the

38:27

pituitary gland. There's the ghrelin receptor

38:30

and then there's basically the growth

38:32

hormone receptor. So

38:34

these peptides can interact to either

38:36

one. And like you

38:38

would do CJC with 1295, which is part of

38:40

the growth hormone. It's

38:45

like part of the active part of the

38:48

growth hormone that activates

38:50

the pituitary gland

38:52

at the growth hormone receptor. And

38:55

then ipamorlin basically interacts with the

38:57

ghrelin receptor. So in combination you

38:59

have a higher level of basically

39:02

growth hormone release. And

39:04

what are the consequences of having that higher level

39:06

of growth hormone release? Well, this

39:09

is the controversy about growth hormone. Does

39:11

growth hormone make you younger or older?

39:14

The literature is all over the place. So I am doing

39:16

a study on that, which is... I

39:22

could show you literature on both sides of the list. But

39:25

generally growth hormones consider the foundry to use, but

39:28

if you overuse it, I think it's bad. It's

39:31

a hell of a reason. I agree. So

39:33

I think in little use and not bodybuilding use, I think

39:35

you'll do fine. So

39:38

these compounds, you sort of hinted at

39:40

a little bit, but they are powerful

39:42

biomolecules like ozempic for example, or semiglutide.

39:45

And I'm finding that in

39:47

the doses that is being given for weight

39:49

loss and for diabetes, at

39:52

two years plus we're seeing significant

39:54

side effects like increasing bowel thickness,

39:57

small bowel obstruction, pancreatitis and other

39:59

things. And and so

40:01

these are not completely risk-free compounds. So how

40:03

do you navigate the issue around safety? You

40:07

think oh, they're natural compounds. It's safe. I could

40:09

take them and people are playing with them Yeah,

40:13

so with use the semiglutide or

40:16

Josempic or one Giorno with

40:18

trans appetite which is and there are

40:20

others that's The

40:24

bound just got FDA approval

40:26

for This is

40:28

appetite for weight loss there. So just

40:31

but the thing is that I'm

40:34

was kind of the king of the GLP

40:36

one way before the movie stars. I wish

40:38

I got the hashtag skinny pen But

40:40

anyway, I don't even do social media. So I don't even

40:43

know I'm not on Facebook So are you

40:45

recommending semiglutide your patients before I was I

40:47

think was the big deal Refuse

40:51

I had patients basically you you're stuck

40:53

They go I just need a little

40:55

help and then we work on lifestyle

40:57

modification I want you to basically like

40:59

really work on physical activity, you know,

41:02

get your steps in try Yeah, yeah

41:04

high intensity interval. Let's clean up the

41:06

diet and Maybe use

41:08

it sparingly. I'm okay with that like

41:10

you maybe three months a year like

41:12

during the holidays They know that you

41:14

know Thanksgiving Christmas too much temptations and

41:16

then after that, you know, they go.

41:18

Okay, fine So, yeah, if you can

41:20

taper off or maybe use it sparingly,

41:22

I think it's perfectly fine. There is

41:24

a product that's called callo curve It's

41:27

a natural herb which actually

41:29

activates basically the

41:31

bitter receptor in the Small

41:34

intestine. Yeah, and it releases your natural

41:37

GLP one and CCK to in here

41:39

appetite So I have some of my

41:41

patients I go let's see if you

41:43

can use this and get off here

41:45

Yeah, I mean there's a whole set

41:47

of ways of naturally to raise GLP

41:49

one right whether it's certain compounds

41:52

for example hemolyntary buckwheat works in the Lord

41:56

the test and when these taste receptors to increase

41:58

GP one various

42:00

kinds of polyphenols

42:02

and other things can help. So it's definitely

42:04

not just the drug that can do it.

42:08

But there are concerns around side effects. If

42:10

you tend to use these things improperly, if you don't

42:12

have proper guidance, if you don't understand

42:14

the risks, you can

42:17

get anybody that you mentioned, like you've said

42:19

to the growth hormone analogs, or

42:21

you can end up with maybe

42:23

other untoward side effects that you're not even aware of.

42:25

So what are the kinds of things that people should

42:27

be worried about or concerned about? What would that be?

42:31

Well, I think in general, peptides are

42:33

generally very safe and

42:36

efficacious. The ones that are of

42:38

concern are the growth hormone, releasing

42:40

peptides, and

42:42

Mott C, I did see one person.

42:44

That's for the mitochondria to make it

42:46

for better energy. I've had

42:49

one with anaphylactic, and I had another

42:51

doctor friend. He's a co-founder of Clinical

42:53

Peptide Society. He also

42:55

saw one anaphylactic reaction. So just

42:57

gotta be careful. The rare side

43:01

effect, but medications, like even

43:03

taking aspirin, you can get

43:05

anaphylactic. So, I don't know. I agree.

43:08

I was taking aspirin, and it almost bled to death

43:10

in the stomach. So, yeah. So

43:16

this field is really just

43:18

exploding, but at the same

43:20

time, there's a lot of pushback from

43:23

the government and the FDA to try to regulate

43:25

these in ways. And one of

43:27

the things that I caught earlier that you

43:29

said, which got my attention, was that there's

43:31

not a lot of human clinical trials. A

43:33

lot of the data you're talking about is

43:35

animal studies? Well,

43:37

not all peptides. One of

43:39

the peptides I just published was on

43:41

thymus and alpha-1, and

43:44

it's open access, so

43:47

you can find it. It's the

43:49

comprehensive review of the

43:51

safety and efficacy of thymus, alpha-1, in

43:53

human clinical trials. There's 11,000

43:55

patients worldwide that

43:58

have been in on human... I

44:00

mean, clinical trials on time-is-alpha-1, and

44:03

basically it's been safe. I mean, no site.

44:06

And the efficacy based on those trials? Yeah,

44:08

I mean, efficacy, most of them basically improved.

44:10

I mean, they were doing studies like Hep

44:12

B, Hep C. Now there's newer drugs and

44:14

all that, but back then they had nothing,

44:16

so they were using time-is-alpha-1 and for

44:19

chronic Hep B. And this is like interesting. If

44:21

you look, go back in history and you read

44:23

it, it's interesting. And it's like, well, you know,

44:25

there are better ones here now, but... Yeah, yeah.

44:27

Well, I remember saying in China during COVID that

44:29

there was studies on T-A1 and COVID

44:31

treatment. In some studies, there's reduced

44:34

mortality. Unfortunately, one compound pharmacy

44:36

got this whole peptide upset

44:38

with the FDA and it was the

44:40

compound pharmacy advertised

44:42

that there's a cure for COVID. Oh,

44:45

wow. And then you say cure to

44:47

the FDA with COVID, are

44:49

you going to be shut down? That's why they

44:51

were upset. So that was one of the reasons

44:53

why it's on the ban list. But

44:55

it has been approved as an orphan drug in the

44:57

70s. And when

44:59

they did first clinical trials with

45:02

children born without time-is-clamps, and

45:05

they even left Diego's, let's get this going. Let's

45:07

see if we can help these children. And it

45:10

was remarkable. It saved their lives. So

45:13

this is before time-is-alpha-1, the precursor of

45:15

it. But anyway, it's like, hey,

45:18

it's safe. It's around. So that's why

45:20

I wrote the paper to basically show

45:24

it to these attorneys who are going to eventually

45:26

follow a lawsuit against FDA about

45:29

this. Yeah. Well, it's a whole

45:31

problem. Often we find that supplements

45:33

or things that really work well

45:36

tend to be regulated in ways

45:38

that are confusing to me because they work, they're

45:40

safe, there's a long history of use, there's plenty

45:43

of evidence, and they're

45:45

bioidentical compounds or things that the body makes

45:47

or uses. And I just

45:49

find it sort of striking that maybe I

45:51

don't want to be conspiracy theorists, but there's,

45:53

it seems to push back me from pharma

45:55

to kind of try to reduce access to

45:58

certain compounds because they work too well. That's

46:00

mine. Well, you know, I have

46:03

theories there too. But anyway,

46:05

I just really want for

46:08

people out there especially your group is

46:11

to get on to savepeptides.org and Hopefully

46:15

you'll have that on your podcast. Yeah, and

46:17

just it's really quick to sign the petition

46:19

send it to your friends and family we

46:22

need more signatures and I

46:24

just grassroots and I go on every lot

46:26

of radio shows and podcasts and we get

46:29

a little blip after a Podcast

46:31

that's great. Yeah, I don't think it's important. What would

46:33

everyone says is important, you know, you know, we want

46:35

to be able to Have

46:38

access to compounds that can support our health and we

46:40

have to be they have to be used judiciously They

46:42

have to be prescribed by a physician. You have to

46:44

be under someone's care What is what they're doing? But

46:47

in that context they should be available to be

46:49

used and what's happening now is a restriction on

46:51

that use So if you

46:53

go to save peptides or

46:55

not calm that works a peptides

46:58

org You can basically sign a

47:00

petition and and that will help

47:02

to the FDA to perhaps Reduce

47:04

their their restrictions or potential band. They're not

47:06

banned yet. There's a proposed ban So I

47:08

think I think we're we're gonna still see

47:10

it's being fought. There's a lot of legal

47:12

cases going on about this In

47:16

in terms of a few other use cases You

47:19

know one of the one of the things that

47:21

it happens as we get older and often a

47:23

big problem for people is energy We lose energy

47:25

and one of the fundamental things

47:28

that happens as we get older is our mitochondria don't

47:30

work as well You know, it's produced

47:32

energy from food and oxygen as well. So

47:34

basically our our engine starts to slow down

47:37

And I and we see eyes obviously a two-year-old

47:40

running around Bouncing off the

47:42

walls and you know full of energy and you

47:44

see like a 92 year old and they're moving

47:46

Super slow and a lot of that has to

47:48

do with mitochondria functions

47:51

huge so so talk about why the importance

47:53

of mitochondria and what What

47:56

the use of peptides are in helping to

47:58

improve the function and help Could

52:00

you use it every day? Well,

52:03

you're supposed to... You can do...

52:05

the protocol is 10 milligrams once a

52:07

week or 5 milligrams sub-q twice a

52:10

week. You could

52:12

go a little further if you have

52:14

an event like you're trying to run

52:16

fast through. You have a marathon coming

52:18

up or something like that. But in

52:21

general, just once to two times a week.

52:23

And are there any risks to it? Well,

52:26

one... like I said before, I did

52:28

have one patient that developed anaphylactic reaction.

52:30

And she was... thank God she was...

52:32

she lived by herself. But she had

52:35

a wherewithal to basically knew something was

52:37

wrong. So she was in Arizona.

52:39

She ran outside. Thank God her neighbor was

52:41

there. She said call 911 and

52:44

she collapsed outside. Wow. And

52:46

then she basically like a month later goes,

52:48

can I try it again? No! Right.

52:52

Never! But

52:54

she goes, I lost so much weight!

52:57

So good! So that's another benefit with

52:59

moxie. It helps the weight loss. Yes!

53:01

Speez-up metabolism. Yeah. It converts

53:03

your white fat

53:06

to brown fat too. So it increases energy

53:08

production and burning, right? So it increases your

53:10

metabolism literally. The other... there's a few other

53:12

mitochondrial peptides like SS31 and human. And

53:14

can you talk a little bit about how those work, what

53:16

they do, how they're used? Yeah, SS...

53:21

Yeah, so SS31 is another interesting

53:24

mitochondrial peptide that can help. I

53:27

kind of explain to my patients

53:29

that, you know, as you

53:31

get older, it's like your underwear... you wear

53:33

that same underwear over time, you lose that

53:36

elastic. So your mitochondria

53:38

gets weak and SS31

53:40

kind of snaps it back in place. So

53:43

then basically the... you know, the

53:45

electron chain where you produce all

53:47

the ATP and energy basically it's

53:49

better formed. So if the conformation

53:51

of the mitochondria doesn't work, it

53:54

gets weak, then that's why your production

53:56

gets weak. So it doesn't speed up

53:59

the mitochondria. but it helps Basically

54:02

their structure exactly and what about human in

54:04

I haven't used that yet Have

54:07

you a little yeah a little okay? So

54:09

I think I think there's all I mean there's like you

54:11

said there's 300,000 I

54:14

don't know how many Get

54:17

on podcast and always someone

54:20

wants to stop me. What about blah blah

54:22

blah blah? Yeah,

54:24

so then they'll go one hour talking about

54:26

giving me a lunch. Yeah. Yeah, so no

54:28

I don't know all the peptides. So the

54:30

question really is you know when you're seeing

54:32

a patient And we talked a lot

54:34

about you know peptides where everything's gonna be in the show

54:36

notes here So people can learn more about them. We're gonna

54:39

put links to the studies you

54:41

mentioned We're gonna be links to save say that I said

54:43

or yeah If

54:45

you can donate to that'd be great. It's time to

54:48

get a phase one clinical trial for BPC 1 5

54:50

7 Yeah, so you got a few million dollars

54:52

to do some research No No,

54:56

it's important anything You know even

54:58

$20 will pull the more research that we have

55:00

the better off We're gonna be to understand these

55:02

but but they are kind of exciting exciting new

55:04

therapeutic in medicine that I never really learned about

55:07

except for insulin and and

55:09

I think that They

55:11

help lacrosse a range of human

55:14

functions that Tend to decline as

55:16

we get older So they seem to be sort of an

55:18

adjunct in longevity and a lot of people in the longevity

55:20

space are using this You know, what are

55:22

your sort of top longevity peptides? Well

55:25

number ones that be talent that when

55:27

you mention twice a year ten days Reset

55:30

but the pineal gland exactly. Okay

55:32

got it and and in terms

55:34

of the You

55:37

know that the the kind of Use

55:41

second would be time is off one for your

55:43

muesli. Yeah, let's do yeah So

55:45

there's some like there's some heavy hitters There's some powerhouse

55:47

peptides that are kind of go-to for you that are

55:49

part of your standard practice But when someone comes in

55:52

to see you as

55:54

a patient you take their medical history How

55:56

do you sort of begin to think about you know,

55:58

which are the right path? for

56:00

each person and how long to use them

56:02

and how to give them. And it

56:05

just seems like we don't really know how to do

56:07

that in medicine. Well, what

56:09

I do is when a patient comes to

56:11

see me, it's

56:13

a pretty extensive morning

56:16

visit when they come. And we

56:19

do so many different testing. We're

56:21

looking for DNA damage. We're looking

56:23

at your genetic SNPs. And

56:26

we're also looking at leaky gut.

56:29

We're looking at many different things

56:31

that most conventional doctors don't check,

56:34

like oxidative stress protocol

56:36

to see if you have cell

56:39

membrane damage. And so anyway,

56:41

the thing is, I have

56:43

this foundational triangle of health. And a

56:46

lot of people have different versions of

56:48

it. But it's hormones, leaky gut, fixer

56:51

liver, remove toxins, sleep,

56:54

exercise, and then in the middle is nutrition. So

56:56

I've been in nutrition also. Try

56:58

to get that balance and then later add

57:00

peptides. I don't do that first. I mean,

57:02

unless- So like phase two. Yeah,

57:04

two or three, just add more or something like

57:06

that. But unless they have an acute injury, it's

57:09

like, okay, let me inject and- So if they're

57:11

immune system's down or they've got an injury, there's

57:13

things you'll pull out. Occasionally I'll pull out. But

57:15

generally, we

57:17

do a biological age too in all

57:19

our patients. So anyway, I

57:21

look at the intrinsic age and later

57:23

I have to tell you're older than

57:26

you're chronologically age or younger and they

57:28

always say, how do I get better?

57:30

So I'm publishing another paper and

57:33

I just don't have time. But

57:36

we submitted a paper to be, and

57:38

it's being reviewed and I'm

57:40

trying to get that open access quickly. And

57:43

so it's an interesting thing. I'll

57:46

just tell you, Alzheimer's patient, 80

57:48

years old, could not finish a

57:50

sentence. And in a year,

57:52

he's targeted to test, significantly improved. He

57:54

started at 2%. He was

57:56

like, fail. Yeah. And now he's trading

57:59

stocks.