0:00

Hey, Dream listeners. If you like this podcast,

0:02

you're going to love the book. Yeah.

0:04

I wrote a book. It's called Selling the Dream,

0:07

and it's coming out March twelfth, twenty twenty

0:09

four, on Atria. It's

0:11

about all of your favorite characters from

0:13

MLMs and some that you've never even

0:16

heard of. I hope check it

0:18

out. Previously

0:20

on the Dream, Mackenzie

0:22

started bawling. Remember that from last

0:24

week. There's also, of course, been

0:26

a lot of deep pressing history from me and

0:29

Dan and then crying with my aunt

0:31

and reminiscing with Grandma and blah blah blah,

0:33

blah blah. Today we're letting you guys

0:35

take over. For the past few

0:37

weeks, we've been asking you, our listeners,

0:39

to call in and leave us voicemails about

0:41

your MLM experiences, and

0:44

we're going to listen to some of those today. But first

0:47

I need to put some people on blast. A

0:49

lot of you called in just to rat out your friends.

0:52

You called and gave us your friend's actual phone

0:54

numbers and asked me personally

0:57

to call them up and tell them that they're being skill

1:00

and or you asked

1:02

me to do some recon on your behalf, you

1:04

know, find out if they're lying about how much money

1:06

they're making or whatever. Her

1:09

name is, her

1:11

number is five, and

1:16

you're totally okay to, you

1:18

know, inform her that

1:21

I passed her in so along if you get

1:23

in touch with her. I'm just I'm so curious.

1:25

All right, Let

1:28

you guys buye here. Look,

1:35

I have enough calls to make for the show already, including

1:37

one at the end of this episode to the woman who skipped

1:39

her best friend's wedding to attend Limelight

1:41

Palooza. Stick around for that,

1:44

but before we get to her, let's listen to your

1:46

stories. We're just gonna let these

1:48

roll. So I've never actually done

1:50

an m L and myself, but one

1:53

of my best friends she's done

1:55

everyone possible. In college,

1:57

she filed for bankruptcy and

2:00

she was one of my bridesmaids. I haven't actually

2:02

talked to her in about four years

2:05

because every time

2:07

I talked to her she tries to sell me something.

2:10

This was her last text to me, Hey,

2:13

how was your child's first day of school?

2:16

My youngest has her Meet the Teacher night

2:19

and it starts next Tuesday. She's really

2:21

excited. I'm also wondering you could

2:23

be interested in helping me out with something I'm super

2:25

close to earning a free cruise in leadership

2:27

for husband and I with Plexus.

2:30

I'm curious willing to make a one

2:33

time purchase to help me earn this opportunity.

2:35

I have a great sale for you to make the deal sweeter,

2:38

but I really only desire to help people. If

2:40

you think this would be a good fit for you, I

2:42

want to help you out. What do you think

2:45

again, It's been four years since

2:47

I've had a conversation with her. A

2:50

couple of years ago, my marriage

2:53

is on the rocks. I

2:55

didn't really know why, but

2:59

my wife is the time, was wanting

3:01

divorce, and so I reached

3:03

out to my father in law, who

3:06

I had a pretty good relationship with, and

3:09

asked him if he could maybe sit

3:11

down at top with me because I knew that he

3:13

had gone through something similar with his marriage.

3:15

Did it work? The time

3:17

came, sit down talk to him, and he

3:20

proceeded in basically dismantling

3:22

me as a person and as a

3:24

provider, telling

3:26

me that my education was them good enough, to my job

3:29

was him good enough? Which led to the question

3:32

what are you going to do? What will

3:35

you do? And I was flabbergasted.

3:37

I just sat there holding

3:40

back tears to be honest,

3:42

and he said, I'll tell you

3:44

what you can do, and

3:47

his solution was Melaluca. He

3:51

obligated me to sit down and listen

3:53

to his presentation about Bela Luca

3:56

and explain how that was going to get me into

3:59

financeinantial freedom,

4:01

and how that would essentially win back the

4:04

heart of his daughter, who

4:06

is now my ex wife. It was

4:08

a moment in my life where I

4:11

was devastated beyond

4:13

belief and just

4:15

reminded me why

4:18

I have stayed away from direct

4:21

sales, as we call it, my

4:23

entire life.

4:32

Thank you for the show that you're doing. It's important

4:35

work. My name is Jason and

4:37

I run an immigrant health clinic in Phoenix,

4:39

Arizona. I've seen it again

4:42

again how a lot of our patients who

4:44

are already financially struggling, have

4:46

gotten sucked into some of these MLM

4:49

schemes, especially herbal life, but others

4:51

as well. And I

4:54

think that what makes our patients

4:56

especially vulnerable to this is that so

4:58

many of them are highly intell diligent, but because

5:00

if America's broken immigration laws, they're sort

5:03

of locked out of the dignified

5:05

labor markets, and so they

5:07

find themselves forced into these very

5:10

menial and degrading jobs, you

5:12

know, scrubbing other people's toilets

5:14

and cleaning other people's offices. And they

5:18

have such a desperation to

5:20

have work with dignity that when somebody

5:23

tells them they can run their own business

5:25

and you know, have control

5:27

of their life, it's they understandably

5:30

really want to fall for that. And

5:33

I've just seen such an expansion of

5:36

some of these stemmy MM

5:38

businesses in the Statish speaking market,

5:41

and it's frustrating to me because

5:43

these are some of the people who are

5:45

already preyed upon in so many different

5:47

ways, and now they see them being taken advantage

5:50

of. Well, uh, please

5:52

don't use my name on the show, but I'm going to tell you

5:54

my name is. I

5:56

work as a youth minister. I went

5:58

through like two years of

6:01

moms at the church constantly

6:04

approaching me about their MLMs

6:07

because they thought that

6:09

because I am a leader in my church and

6:11

I work with all these kids, and I work with all these moms,

6:14

that I would be able to grow their downlines

6:16

so quickly that I would make them a lot of money.

6:18

And I would be like, no, you idiots, this is

6:20

not something. Okay, I didn't call them idiots.

6:23

That's not very pastoral. But they would

6:25

like make up reasons to talk

6:27

to me and not tell me that it's MLM. And

6:29

they would be like, oh, my kid is you

6:31

know, struggling, and I need to talk to you about my kid.

6:33

And I'd be like, oh, okay, cool, come on into my office.

6:35

And they'd come into the office and they'd be like, talk about

6:38

their kids for two minutes, and then it

6:40

would be like, oh, have you heard

6:43

about icegenics or

6:45

have you heard about ma And

6:48

then it was like the other thing that like really frustrated

6:50

me was that they knew that because I chose

6:53

to do church work, I don't make, you

6:55

know, a ton of money, So they would lie

6:58

about their kids having

7:00

problems just to get to me and

7:02

then try to sell me on their so called

7:05

business. Anyway,

7:06

I just needed to rant. I

7:16

just wanted to share my experience as

7:20

a member of the Church of Jesus Christ the Latter

7:22

day Saints. First, I want to stress

7:24

that the church has nothing to do with

7:27

MLMs officially, but

7:29

as you stated, Utah is the unofficial

7:31

global capital of MLMs,

7:33

and I believe this is because of the nature

7:36

the members of the Church of Jesus Christ the

7:38

latterday Saints. Firstly, just

7:41

like a lot of other churches, Latterday Saints

7:43

are generally trusting, you

7:46

might say global. They're optimistic

7:49

and sharing, and

7:51

importantly, we have lots of friends

7:53

and family. So when your uncle

7:55

comes to you and says I have this great life

7:57

changing opportunity, sometimes

8:00

it sounds a lot like a message you would here at

8:02

church. Secondly, Latter day

8:04

Saints often believe that because they are

8:06

good people, good things will happen to them.

8:09

Course this is a false belief, but

8:11

joining the latest MLM to come their way

8:14

just has to work out, because they say their

8:16

prayers, go to church, help their neighbors,

8:18

so forth. Another thing

8:21

is that being self sufficient

8:23

is very very strongly preached, and as

8:25

you've discussed in your podcast, women are

8:28

generally not supposed to work, and

8:30

so being part of an MLM

8:33

is a perfect fit because they feel like they can

8:35

earn money for their family without officially

8:38

having a job. My

8:40

last point, Latter day Saints are born

8:42

and bred to be missionaries. A

8:45

phrase you'll hear all the time at church is

8:48

every member is a missionary,

8:50

and so preaching the Gospels their friends

8:53

often naturally flows to selling

8:55

MLM products to their

8:57

friends.

9:06

Hey, Jane, my name is Nick.

9:09

I live out in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

9:12

So my experience, I moved to Harrisburg

9:14

about two years ago, right, and

9:17

as I'm settling in, you know, you go to grocery

9:19

stores, and first

9:21

grocery store I'm in, I end up meeting this guy

9:24

and he start, you know, I think he started talking to me about

9:27

sports. He said, oh, it looked like you you

9:29

work out, which is weird, right, And you

9:31

know, we started talking and it's just real

9:34

casual and about what we do and

9:36

for work. And he tells me, yeah,

9:38

I also do this thing on the side. It's some sports

9:40

marketing. It's really neat. You

9:42

know. It's a group of guys that are similar to yourself.

9:46

We should go together and talk more about it. I'm like, Okay,

9:48

that sounds sounds cool. I'm new to the area.

9:50

I like to make some friends and let's

9:52

do it. So this guy's like asking

9:54

me if you can come over my mind hot house or where we can meet

9:56

and where we can meet, and I'm just like, you

9:59

know, the more I think about it, and it smells

10:01

like an MLM. So I get

10:03

him on the phone and I'm just like, hey, let's you

10:05

know, let me know what's the product.

10:07

You know, what am I selling? How it's marketing? Okay?

10:10

So there's no product, no, no product

10:12

okay? And how how does it work? Do

10:14

you make money? How do you make money? And

10:16

none of these questions he could give concrete

10:19

answers. And then he starts like flipping

10:21

the script, which I've heard of and I've seen this

10:24

multiple times. They flip it and they say,

10:26

well, I don't know if you'd be the

10:28

right fit for us. We're looking for people that

10:30

are like minded. And then he, you

10:32

know, tries to make you or me feel,

10:36

you know, self conscious. You start to wonder what a why

10:38

the rights to hit? Like, what's wrong with me? You know? And

10:40

I realized he was doing this and I just kind of wrote him

10:42

off and that was that. But funny

10:44

enough, I continue going to the grocery

10:47

stores because I need to buy food, and

10:49

I see this is like a month ago, and

10:51

I see this guy, the same one that approached

10:53

me the first time, and he's walking around and

10:56

I see him. He's got this other dude cornered and they're

10:58

talking, and so

11:00

it is so fine. So I leave the store

11:03

and i'm driving out. You know, I got my groceries,

11:05

and I see him leaving the store

11:08

with no groceries. Hi,

11:17

my name is Mimi. I

11:20

was part of the Amway

11:22

organization, but in like a sub

11:25

categorized MLM within Amwick.

11:28

It was called Worldwide Group, and

11:31

it was from the start so

11:33

controlling from every

11:35

aspect of my life, from

11:37

how I spend my money, me and then who

11:40

I would associate with. It was

11:42

highly encouraged that if other people did

11:44

not want to be a part of Worldwide Group, that

11:47

you should quote sniff them

11:49

out of your life. I'd

11:51

rather not use my real

11:54

name, so you can call me whatever

11:56

you want, Amy, Lisa, whatever,

11:58

I don't care. So here is

12:00

what happened to me in two thousand

12:02

and two. I was pregnant with my first

12:05

child, and I was a virtual

12:07

assistant and I had a client in town who

12:10

was starting a new business. She

12:12

was a professional motivational speaker, so

12:14

her sales pitch was bought

12:17

on. She was super excited and

12:19

she talked me into being

12:22

part of her. Of course, amazing opportunity

12:26

she said she couldn't even explain it, or she

12:28

wouldn't, and that could

12:30

be part of it for only three hundred dollars, and

12:33

she was going to She was quite sure

12:35

she was going to be making twenty thousand dollars a month before

12:37

she knew it, and it was going to be so easy.

12:40

So of course it's sounded great to me, and I quickly signed

12:43

on, not even understanding what I was signing

12:45

on to do. Her website

12:48

was literally swimming in cash dot

12:50

com. That was what her website

12:52

was. Of course, it was just pictures of

12:55

her family and vacation

12:57

places they've gone to, and no other

12:59

information whatsoever except for eight

13:01

hundred numbers that you could call for more info,

13:03

which didn't really even give you anything. So

13:06

within hours of spending my initial

13:08

three hundred dollars, I was on the phone

13:10

with her and her supervisor. It

13:13

turned out that what I'd done was

13:16

to sign up to sell rbalife. The

13:18

phone call we'd had was to explain to me

13:20

how I could go on to become the supervisor

13:23

without even selling a thing. All

13:25

I had to do was buy five thousand

13:28

dollars worth of product and then to bump

13:30

me out to the next level. Their

13:32

sales pitches were phenomenal.

13:35

By the end of the call, I seriously couldn't

13:37

wait to give them five thousand dollars so that

13:39

I could too get in at the ground

13:42

level. Of course, never mind the

13:44

Erbalife had been in business for years and

13:46

there was no ground level left. Never

13:49

once during the phone call did they mention sales

13:52

or even the product. It was all

13:55

about recruitment and building my team.

13:59

When I during the call, when I raised objections

14:01

to them that I didn't want to recruit any friends

14:03

or family, they told me that I wouldn't have to,

14:06

that they would teach me how to do

14:08

it through classified ads in the newspaper, putting

14:11

signs up, mailing out booklets.

14:14

So at this point I am now

14:16

fifty three hundred dollars in the hole. My

14:19

business is up and running. That

14:22

meant that for the next few months I spent

14:24

my time buying classified ads and target

14:26

markets in newspapers, which in

14:28

my case turned out to be Chicago. I

14:31

was running ads in the newspapers that were

14:33

anywhere from seven hundred

14:36

to nine hundred dollars a week, and

14:38

then I was buying mailing lists that were similarly

14:41

cost and I was mailing out these booklets

14:43

that literally have pictures of people in yachts

14:45

and on vacations, and that was it. There was no other information

14:48

in it. By this time, I was about

14:50

seven months pregnant, and I was also

14:52

putting up signs around town. I was literally

14:55

seven months pregnant and climbing ladders

14:57

and trying to put my signs high enough so that other

14:59

people would and take them down, saying work

15:01

from home earned twenty thousand dollars a month.

15:05

Never during any of this time. It all

15:07

told, it was about four or five months. Never

15:09

during any of this that I saw a single Herbal

15:12

Life product or even really learned

15:14

that much about the product. I really had no idea what

15:16

I was supposed to be doing. All

15:19

I was supposed to be doing was listening to these motivational

15:21

weekly and daily falls telling

15:23

me how to sign new people up, because

15:26

the more supervisors that I signed up, the

15:28

more money I would make. After

15:30

having my son, I quickly realized this was

15:32

not for me. I quit the business and

15:35

was like twenty to twenty five thousand

15:38

dollars in the hole. I

15:41

never ever, ever have told my husband

15:44

any of this. He has no idea

15:53

Hi Janey. My name's Amanda. I'm

15:55

coming from Coloonna, British Columbia,

15:57

Canada. I actually used to work

16:00

in the customer service department of a multi

16:02

level marketing company here in BC,

16:04

and may I tell you it was an interesting couple

16:07

of years. One of the things I

16:09

had to do was stuff envelopes with commission

16:11

checks, and so you would have a stack of checks

16:13

as sick as your wrist, and they'd be going

16:16

all over North America. And there

16:18

was the same names that just kept coming up over and over

16:20

and over again, and I started to recognize them. There was maybe

16:22

twenty or thirty names that would always

16:25

be receiving checks, and we're talking hundreds,

16:27

sometimes thousands of dollars. And then there were

16:29

other names that I didn't recognize, and they would be receiving

16:31

checks for just the most insultingly

16:34

minuscule amounts of money. We're talking

16:36

forty cents, you know, ten

16:38

bucks here, fifteen dollars there, and

16:41

I didn't know why they

16:43

were so low, or what these people were doing or anything,

16:45

and I just felt bad.

16:47

Towards the end that is

16:49

Bill worn and my experience with an

16:51

MLAMB was a friend of mine told

16:54

me was a great business opportunity.

16:56

And I went to his house and sat down

16:58

with him, and they were with his family

17:00

and friends, and they started

17:03

giving a spill about this

17:06

business where you convinced people

17:08

to change their phone

17:11

service from one service to another. And

17:14

Donald Trump backed this thing. And then

17:16

they showed a video with Donald Trump

17:18

talking about this landline

17:21

telephone. I had a video screen on it,

17:23

how it was this great new

17:25

technology, and I'm thinking, this is crazy.

17:27

They had these things in the nineteen sixties

17:30

at the World's Fair. It was not big technology.

17:33

But I was just shocked at how gullible

17:36

these people were. They were just eating this up

17:38

because Donald Trump was putting his name

17:40

on it. So when I got up to leave in

17:42

the middle of this thing, my friend

17:45

followed me to the door and say, what, No, why are

17:47

you leaving. I'm like, you need to

17:49

snap out of it, man, You just Donald

17:52

Trump was putting his name on a turd if

17:54

somebody paid him. Ugh, we

18:14

do have one more call to play for

18:16

you. It's an outgoing call. Remember

18:19

we promised to reach out to this lady. I'm

18:21

really really passionate about Limelight Palooza.

18:24

Her name is Jetty and She's a Kardashian

18:27

adjacent looking makeup artist from Philly.

18:30

Last week we played you a little bit of this YouTube video

18:32

we found of her talking about the importance of

18:34

Limelight Palooza, the annual

18:37

convention that that makeup company puts on.

18:39

Here's more of that. I almost didn't

18:42

go to Limelight Palosa this year because

18:45

one of my best friends

18:47

is getting married that same

18:50

Saturday, and I'm supposed to be a bridemaid. And

18:52

I remember crying when I found out that Limelight

18:55

Paloosa was that same weekend,

18:58

and it was one of the hardest decisions I had to make

19:00

business wise, because you know, my friendships

19:02

are important and my business is very, very important

19:05

to me as well. However, I

19:07

made like a promise to myself that this

19:10

year, no matter what, I

19:13

was gonna go. And so we

19:15

both cried about it. She was crying, I was crying,

19:18

But she's such a good friend that

19:20

she was like, you need to go. So

19:23

now I'm telling you guys what my friend

19:26

told me. You need to go.

19:29

If you want to make some serious money

19:31

in this business, you must

19:33

go. I've researched this, I study

19:35

this. I've been in direct sales for a very long time,

19:37

and I have failed in direct sales for a very long

19:40

time because I never

19:42

took convention. Seriously, there's

19:44

a pattern here. I'm not going to conventions

19:46

and I'm not succeeding. It's trying

19:49

to break that netwal

19:54

marketing doesn't care about your past. It

19:57

doesn't care about like how broke you are

19:59

right now. It doesn't care if you're a single mind, doesn't

20:01

care if you've lived on welfare. It

20:03

doesn't care if you finished high school.

20:06

It does not discriminate. Like success

20:08

can happen to anyone in this

20:11

business, but you have to invest your

20:13

time and money in order to get it.

20:18

Just just get to convention, and

20:20

I promise you, I promise

20:23

you won't regret it. So

20:29

we called then Jetty to see if attending Limelight

20:31

Palooza made all of her dreams

20:33

come true? Is she rich beyond

20:35

belief? You know? Was missing

20:37

her best friend's wedding really worth it?

20:40

That's one biggest regret, Like

20:44

like I was gonna break up with her, you know what I mean.

20:49

This is not mentioned anywhere in the video, but

20:52

it turns out that Jetty wasn't just any

20:54

old beauty guide. No, she was

20:56

a beauty Ambassador, a special

20:58

title for a handful of makeup artist slash

21:01

influencers who were recruited in the

21:03

early days of Limelight to stump for the brand.

21:06

She knows Jacob, you guys.

21:09

Side note, We reached out again

21:11

for his comment, and he's just he's

21:13

so on all the time, even

21:15

in his emails, so incredibly

21:17

Jacob. It's almost enviable. It

21:20

wasn't one hundred percent clear, but we

21:22

think he's listened to the show now and

21:24

he still has no interest in speaking with us.

21:27

Maybe that'll change after he hears what m Jetty,

21:30

his former colleague, has to say. So

21:33

as investments, we were required to go to the conference.

21:36

Oh you didn't say that in the video.

21:40

Sorry, Yeah,

21:43

so we were. It

21:47

was it was one of those things where it wasn't like

21:49

written in paper, but the way they implied

21:51

it was like you are

21:53

required to go. But if

21:56

like you down go, you're it's

21:58

like it's gonna be very frowned fun

22:00

and we're not going to know if we're gonna be able to

22:02

take you serious. And

22:04

again again, I wasn't just a beauty

22:06

guy. I was an ambassador. I had relationships

22:09

with the CEO and and with corporate,

22:11

and so they were all expecting

22:14

me to be there. And I looked

22:16

back at it now and I think, oh

22:18

my god, like, what were you thinking?

22:21

What were you thinking? What were

22:23

you thinking? I was just thinking

22:26

that, like if I did all these things,

22:28

I can't again, I was going to be I

22:31

was gonna have all this success, and I was gonna

22:33

have all this money, and I was gonna have all this

22:35

admiration and I

22:38

was going to be happy. So

22:49

are you still with that company?

22:52

No, I'm not. I was cuminated

22:55

what m H say

22:58

it again? I was terminated

23:01

by them. Why spate? I was

23:03

let go so like it came to

23:05

a point where it was no longer fulfilling

23:08

me. It got pulled to a point where I

23:10

was working so much, working

23:12

around the clock. And I'm still

23:15

young, so I mean, I'm twenty nine now,

23:17

but at the time I was about twenty seven,

23:20

so I still kind of wanted to live my life.

23:22

But some girls didn't see us that way. Some girls

23:25

they told corporate, you know, she's not she's

23:28

not doing what she should

23:30

supposed to be doing as an upline. And I

23:32

felt like I was even though I wasn't happy,

23:34

and I was starting to slowly pull

23:36

away. Like at one point I got

23:39

I told the girls that I was going to have business

23:41

hours. It got to that

23:43

because I said, I cannot

23:46

be awake at two am. I mean,

23:49

even your doctor has begirt right.

23:58

So after I got terminated, I

24:00

went into a really bad depression and

24:05

I developed pretty bad anxiety

24:07

because I got terminated over

24:10

an email. Never got a phone call from

24:12

corporate. Despite having a very

24:14

close intimate relationship with CEO. I

24:18

never got a phone call. It

24:20

was an email. So

24:26

then what did you do next? So

24:29

I did do in another direct bil company.

24:31

What I know, I know

24:33

it is because so one of my

24:36

my good friends in my downline,

24:39

her mom was in Senogen the lips stick,

24:42

and she's like,

24:45

come on, a Jettie, like, let's let's

24:47

do it. I'm like, all right, fine, So

24:51

I did it. Put after two months, I was like, you know, this

24:53

isn't for me. But then after that she

24:55

goes, all right, well, I just so much another company,

24:58

and the company is a great bonus

25:00

there, and you're gonna get these bonuses so quick.

25:03

So we joined. The name is Coved

25:05

and they sell this ketos. Does Katosis

25:08

drink it? Yeah? Okay,

25:10

yeah, yeah, which, by the way, it doesn't work.

25:12

And again I start seeing

25:14

that same pattern where I'm

25:17

giving it my own I'm spending

25:19

too much time on my soul, you

25:21

know. And so then after that I joined them

25:23

to cem what yeah,

25:30

yeah, I know. You're

25:32

like a fascinating character to me because

25:35

you really want it to be the

25:37

answer. It seems like it's

25:39

like an attic. I'm like an addict. What

25:42

it is like, You're just like an attic, and

25:44

like you got that taste of success, got

25:46

the taste of the money and the potential, and you see

25:48

it and you know it, but you know it's not that

25:51

good for you. You're gonna go after it

25:53

anyways, but we're just gonna take the next time, you

25:55

know what I mean. Megan,

26:01

if you're listening to this, I

26:03

thank god you're such a special and

26:06

understanding and forgiving time

26:08

firm, because I think had that been

26:10

done to me, I don't

26:13

know if I would have been able to have

26:15

been so accepting. Another coming

26:40

up on the last two episodes of this season

26:42

of The Dream, Well, thank you, Dick

26:45

de Boss. Dick Johnson,

26:49

Dick de Boss, thank you for that very warm

26:51

and generous welcome and

26:53

what was enforcement like during the

26:55

Bush era? Non existent? A

26:57

moratorium and thank all of you

27:00

for that welcome. You sure know how to make the fellow

27:02

feel a part of the Amway

27:04

family. Clinton himself

27:07

later publicized a video

27:09

that was done for the Direct Selling Association,

27:12

promoting it internationally. Three

27:14

quarters of you are women trying

27:16

to strengthen your families and raise strong

27:19

children without the fear that a glass

27:21

ceiling will hold you down. In

27:23

a very real way, your work promotes our

27:26

values all around the globe. They

27:28

can look at the law and the judicial decisions

27:31

as I'm sure you have from

27:33

the last thirty five years. I followed

27:35

your industry's growth for years now, and

27:37

even I was amazed to learn that

27:40

there are more than one hundred thousand direct salespeople

27:42

in Russia and over six hundred

27:44

thousand in China. I want

27:46

to thank the leaders of Amway

27:49

China for contributing

27:52

to causes that

27:54

make the communities in which you live a better

27:57

place. Well,

28:00

that's a loaded question, is I'm sure you know? I

28:02

mean, I'm fine loading questions. I have no

28:04

problem, but at this point in my research loading a

28:07

question, and the trap is being

28:09

skeptical of the business model only because

28:11

it's a little bit foreign to you. That's I

28:13

spent a year of studying this. Well, you accuse

28:16

me ONCETI lying, which I take

28:18

great offense to. Back to your per I'm not afraid

28:20

of offending people. I'm a reporter. It's part

28:22

of my job. You know. We offend people sometimes.

28:25

I'm offended by a lot of what you're doing. If

28:27

a person is purchasing one thousand dollars worth

28:29

of toothpaste each month and suggesting

28:31

that they are using it for personal use, on

28:33

its face, that is

28:36

clearly not doable. Are enforcement,

28:38

but in fact represent

28:40

tracking. That are the companies You represent tracking.

28:43

That's up to the companies to do. No facts up

28:45

to you. You represent them, You represent

28:48

them for our government, you represent them for the people.

28:50

It is up to you. There's a presumption of innocence

28:52

in our situation and our our system

28:55

of government, which I'm sure you understand. The

29:13

Dream is a production of Little Everywhere and

29:15

Stitcher, written and reported by me

29:18

Jane Marie Dan Galucci, Mackenzie

29:20

cassab Lyra Smith and help from

29:22

Claire Rolinson. We are edited

29:25

by Peter Clowney, our fact checker.

29:27

Is Michelle Harris. The Dream is

29:29

executive produced by Laura Mayer, Chris

29:31

Bannon, Dan Galucci and me.

29:34

We appreciate you subscribing, rating, and

29:37

reviewing the show wherever you listen, Hello

29:45

the Dream listeners. Have you had a personal

29:47

experience with MLMs. We want to hear

29:50

from you. Leave us a voicemail at seven

29:52

one five six zero zero zero

29:54

three two six, or send us an email

29:57

at This is the Dream podcast

29:59

at gmail, melt dot com.