0:00

on this episode we discuss cat

0:03

person not to be

0:05

confused with cat people which is multiple

0:07

cat persons or hat person the story

0:10

of jamaica. I

0:15

don't get that. I love how these look you

0:18

know because you want to get a hat. Oh

0:20

hat people yeah. Yeah

0:24

you'll make more sense when you hear it later when you listen to

0:26

it. Okay. On the podcast yeah. Hey

0:31

everyone welcome to the

0:33

flop house I'm Dan

0:35

McCoy. My

0:54

name is Elliot Kalin and joining us today

0:56

we've got a very special guest.

0:59

Hi it's Allie Haglin. That's

1:01

right the star of the show is

1:04

here Stuart is not apparently he had

1:06

better things to do and Hallie did

1:08

not have better things to do empty

1:10

schedule haggles so they call her. That's

1:12

not. She's doing us. If you knew

1:14

the backbends I've had

1:16

to do to make this work

1:18

into my schedule. Yeah she's doing us a

1:20

real favor. Actually I should say she's doing us

1:23

a real favor and both of these two folks

1:25

are doing me a real favor for reasons that

1:27

may come up later in the episode I have

1:29

to travel abruptly and so Hallie and Dan are

1:32

recording at night on a Sunday night.

1:34

Hallie had to rush to watch this movie

1:36

during her family time I assume and they

1:38

are they're really doing me a favor so

1:40

thank you. Hallie got to rush to

1:42

watch this movie during her family time. Sorry

1:46

you gotta take care of the kids. Got

1:49

it done folks. I got an important movie

1:52

business. Now Hallie you excited to meet

1:54

that. I call my husband folks. Because

1:58

you don't know his name yeah. Halle,

2:01

are you excited to be taking

2:03

the reins as not

2:06

a fourth co-host, but one of

2:08

three? One of the three

2:10

clock-to-tears? I've done this before, Elliot. It's your first time

2:12

stepping up to the plate? I

2:14

don't see what happens. Reaching the majors?

2:16

It's been a long... No,

2:19

I think it hasn't been that long.

2:22

I've just been replacing you, so

2:24

you don't remember. Yeah. I

2:26

don't know any of that. I wasn't there, so I don't know if it

2:28

happened. No, but it has been a while. Elliot doesn't listen to

2:30

any episodes. He's not on. Usually,

2:34

in the early days, we would have... We

2:37

were bad about scheduling ourselves until the last

2:39

minute, and then we would often

2:41

have a third person replace. In

2:43

this case, it's been a while since we've had

2:45

one of us duck out, but Stuart is off chasing

2:49

kangaroos and kissing

2:51

wallabies, I guess. That's what they

2:53

do. He's busy. Yeah,

2:55

last time, I think you filled in for

2:58

me when I had children and things like

3:00

that. Oh, yeah. No, since I've been

3:02

in LA, I think I... Yeah, so it was not anything

3:04

as exciting as going to Australia, so I guess maybe that's

3:06

why I blocked it out of my mind. Yeah,

3:08

that was exciting. Yeah. I'm

3:11

happy to be here. I hear...

3:14

Isn't there a thing about how koalas

3:17

have chlamydia or something? I

3:20

only bring this up because you sexualized

3:23

Australian animals in your

3:25

short introduction. So

3:27

I wasn't... I

3:30

would never have gone there, but I hope... Be

3:33

careful. No, that's true. And there's many reasons not

3:35

to have sex with a koala. That's just one

3:37

of them. Yeah, they can't give

3:39

consent. That's another important one. They've

3:43

always got their babies on their backs, which

3:45

just makes it weird. Yeah, inappropriate in many

3:47

ways. The Australia

3:49

Tourism Board, they have their

3:51

slogan, G'day, don't do it, mate.

3:53

And it's got a picture of a sexy

3:55

koala. Yeah. So

3:58

speaking of sexy animals... Cat

4:00

person is a movie that we watch This

4:04

is that there's I don't

4:06

know if that it's an animal, but you

4:08

know, let's let's get into it This is

4:11

a movie that was being what do we do on this

4:13

podcast? Okay, hold on. Well, yeah, sure Let

4:15

me set it up for new listeners who

4:17

are coming in. This is a week.

4:19

This is a weekly podcast We release an episode every

4:21

week on a Saturday morning But what

4:23

do we do on this weekly Saturday morning

4:26

podcast aside from sell sugary cereals

4:28

to kids? Well two

4:30

Saturdays in a month I

4:42

guess people are age Half

4:49

the time this is a podcast where we watch a bad

4:51

movie then we talked about it and by say bad We

4:53

haven't watched it before the show most of the time

4:55

it is Has been decided

4:57

upon either critically or commercially This

5:00

is not a film for us the viewing

5:02

public and we judge it for

5:04

you Sometimes it's just a movie that we think

5:06

might be interesting to talk about Yeah, so we

5:08

haven't seen the movie before we select them and

5:14

Not in this case We

5:17

don't have to talk about the off weeks because that's not what

5:19

this is and this week we watched a movie and it was

5:22

Cat person and it was based on

5:24

a New Yorker short story. That was

5:27

Probably the most talked about New Yorker

5:29

short story since Shirley Jackson's the lottery

5:31

Yeah, I think not since the secret

5:33

life of Walter Mitty has a New

5:35

Yorker short story been adapted to film

5:37

so quickly I think Despite

5:40

perhaps not being a natural

5:42

fit for adaptation to the film The

5:45

third act of the film really points out as it

5:47

points up as well. Yeah, we'll get into it I

5:49

think both Elliott. Well, I don't want to spoil that

5:52

we'll talk about it when we make our judgment Let's

5:55

talk about this movie what happens? Well, I want

5:57

to say this whole thing were you were either

5:59

of you? familiar with the story beforehand because I had

6:01

I read the story when it was a news story

6:03

did you do that yes yeah

6:05

it was all over the internet at the time people

6:08

were like you gotta read the story I mean

6:10

I read it in print

6:12

in the pages of the

6:14

New Yorker magazine the way

6:16

all New York articles are meant to be read in

6:19

pieces while on the toilet New York's

6:21

toilet I read it online despite having

6:29

a subscription to the New

6:31

Yorker that I cannot seem to shake

6:33

I don't know who's paying for it I

6:35

don't know how it happens it gets delivered

6:38

to my apartment weekly

6:40

and I toss it away

6:42

because like while I enjoy

6:45

the magazine you know

6:47

to just have a subscription is inviting stacks

6:50

of unread New Yorkers in a way that

6:52

I cannot take wow that's cool

6:54

I can't believe taking off my fanny

6:57

pack in case in

7:00

case she sounds different she's now fanny backless

7:02

now this

7:05

might be the only place I'm a regular New Yorker reader

7:07

but I am about eight to nine months behind at any

7:09

given time I read them in order because why not I'm

7:12

a dork but this is a good attempt as

7:14

any to use the thing that I can't use anywhere else which is

7:16

the Seinfeld spec episode that

7:18

I dreamed a couple months

7:20

ago it was all about the New Yorker where

7:22

Kramer starts getting a mysterious subscription to New Yorker

7:24

at his apartment that he doesn't know how it

7:26

got there becomes becomes enamored of the magazine and

7:28

he says he's gonna read it cover to cover

7:31

every issue and Elaine is like yeah but you

7:33

gotta watch out for pile up you're gonna

7:35

have to do a pile up he's like what's pile

7:37

up you're never gonna catch up you're gonna it's gonna

7:39

pile up and creamer becomes he's like no I'm gonna

7:41

defeat this pile and so he has locked

7:43

himself into his apartment until he finishes all these New

7:46

Yorkers and they keep coming and you can't stop it

7:48

and meanwhile Banya gets a shouts and

7:50

murmurs in and Jerry pretends it doesn't annoy him

7:52

but he's so angry that he has to write

7:54

a shout some murmurs and he ends up stealing

7:56

George's idea for shouts and murmurs and I had

7:58

an idea for a scene where Elaine

8:00

runs into David Remnick at a party and

8:03

suggests a New Yorker moratorium that they stop

8:05

publishing the magazine for a year so everyone

8:07

can catch up to it and This

8:10

is I woke up and I was like, oh

8:12

too bad. The only show this works on went

8:14

out here years ago

8:19

Incredibly well developed. I feel like you

8:21

should just write it. Maybe I'll just write

8:23

it. Maybe I'll do it just for fun But yeah, this is

8:26

the kind of stuff. I dream some either have dreams that are

8:28

someone is chasing me or It's

8:30

an entire story that I can then write down. So

8:32

which is what's it gonna be tonight? Let's find out

8:36

Dreams where I speak where I'm speaking to

8:38

people in Portuguese, which is very weird

8:42

Portuguese that makes sense but not not

8:45

very well, especially now It's

8:47

like I'm trying to speak Spanish

8:50

and I keep speaking Portuguese and

8:53

I don't know where they're coming from Last

8:55

night I dreamt. I went to Manderley again So

9:00

That's for the previous mrs. McCoy It's

9:05

a person essentially I would describe the story

9:08

the original short story as it's a depiction

9:10

of a it's a short story It's a

9:12

depiction of a moment in a young

9:14

woman's life where she kind of gets it falls into a

9:16

relationship with an awkward older guy She

9:18

mishandles it he's weird and it just

9:20

ends on a on a sour

9:22

note You know and as

9:25

Dan said, it's not necessarily the most adaptable

9:27

to a film story because the thing that

9:29

I like that story but the thing I

9:31

found best about it was that it was

9:33

like how kind of tenderly and delicately it

9:35

handled a Situation where

9:37

two characters are awkward

9:39

around each other and are doing making bad decisions around

9:41

each other You know don't know how to how to

9:43

be the people they want to be What

9:46

did you guys think when you read it? I mean, did you like it? Did you not like

9:48

it? Dan I know it reminded

9:50

you of the way you've been when you fall It

9:57

is reminiscent I mean I think

10:00

any guy who reads it.

10:02

I mean, woman who reads is

10:04

like, probably like, Oh, this reminds

10:06

me of bad things that happened to

10:08

me. And any guy reads is like, shit, did

10:10

I act like this at some point? I mean,

10:12

like the thing about the, the, the

10:15

story is he doesn't sort

10:17

of reveal it. Like he's, he's weird.

10:21

And I, you know, you understand why

10:23

his feelings are hurt, but he

10:26

doesn't reveal himself as like sort

10:28

of bad until the end, which

10:30

is kind of literally the punchline of the story

10:32

in that it punches you in the stomach where

10:35

he, you know, like he reveals that he

10:37

can only deal with his like

10:39

sadness over this relationship by lashing out and calling

10:41

her a whore. And this,

10:44

this movie is

10:46

kind of, we, I mean, we'll get into

10:48

it, but it's weird to me that it like

10:51

reaches that moment. And then it has like goes,

10:53

it goes further in a way that like,

10:55

okay, we've hit the act to point of

10:58

no return to get to X

11:00

three. And they feel like they need

11:02

to sort of like reset the ambiguity about it

11:04

in a way that then leads

11:07

the, like both of them

11:10

to behave in wildly illegal fashions

11:13

in a way that sort of, I don't know,

11:15

like they're trying to like spin out this like sort

11:17

of balance past the point at which

11:19

like the plates have fallen off the table, I

11:21

feel like, but maybe we'll get into it more.

11:23

Let's get into it. Let's talk about it. Okay.

11:26

No, wait, Hallie, what do you think? No,

11:28

no, she, we don't need to, her experience is not relevant

11:30

to this. Hallie, what did you think of that original story?

11:34

I liked it. I

11:36

thought I'm geared up for

11:38

this conversation because I, I

11:40

didn't actually, I think I kind

11:43

of knew that this was like

11:45

a bad movie in the sense

11:47

that it would be an option

11:49

for us to watch, but I

11:51

don't really know why

11:53

people defined it as a bad movie. And

11:55

I'm sure that I'll, you

11:58

know, let's talk. Get ahead

12:00

of ourselves. Let's I know I have mixed feelings about this

12:02

movie too. We'll have to get into it But

12:05

okay, let's talk about the story Alright

12:10

The we start with Margo. She's a young

12:12

college student played by Amelia Jones from Coda

12:15

She works at a movie theater snack bar and

12:18

where she's hanging out at her snack bar

12:20

We hear the audio from a trailer for

12:22

a horror movie seller or a revival theater

12:24

a tall guy with a beard Yes, it's

12:26

Nicholas Braun from succession He comes up and

12:29

orders red vines and she's kind of snarky

12:31

about it and he does not respond cut to a

12:33

night sky In text we get

12:35

that old chestnut that Margaret Atwood quote about how

12:37

men are afraid of women laughing at them and

12:39

women are afraid Of men killing them and they wait

12:41

until the last they wait so long to put Margaret

12:43

Atwood's name up as if the movie is Considering claiming

12:45

that as an original quote that they don't have to

12:48

attribute to somebody I thought they were going I didn't

12:50

think they were gonna put her name. Yeah It's

12:53

almost like you can feel the person with the finger

12:55

hovering over the button that says a tribute quote to

12:57

and he's like All right,

13:00

and the next and then then puts it and I

13:02

say he could be a she I don't know Margo

13:04

is walking home that night. She meets a stray dog. She

13:06

does the thing Most people

13:08

would do and try to bring it into her

13:10

dorm But her RA very reasonably I think stops

13:12

her from being us bring a stray dog into

13:15

the dorm Well, this RA is presented as a

13:17

real snob What's E

13:19

I? T make it see

13:21

exactly clear that in this case She's doing

13:23

it because it's going to storm outside and

13:25

like she just has like a soft heart

13:27

for like she's not gonna keep This dog

13:30

forever. She's like Gentle,

13:32

it doesn't like it's gonna cause a lot

13:35

of trouble. I think this is

13:37

your general anti-animal Animals

13:40

I just I think when you're living in a place like a

13:42

dorm, which is a communal setting It'd be different if it was

13:44

an apartment building Yeah, I think she's a

13:47

hero for bringing this dog in from a storm But

13:49

in a communal place where you don't know if people

13:51

are allergic to those animals You know Sam's gonna run

13:53

around peeing and booping all over the place That's for

13:55

the students to do to pee and poop all over

13:57

the place. That's not for the dogs to do maybe

13:59

just Maybe this is kind of like a Goodwill hunting dog, and

14:03

the dog's gonna turn out to be a super genius, make

14:05

all the other students feel bad, ruin the grade curve. We

14:09

don't know that. We do now, because we watched the

14:11

movie, and we find out the secret of that dog.

14:13

But anyway, that night, Margot wakes up to

14:15

hear a woman crying for help outside her door. The dog has

14:17

killed the RA. There's

14:19

blood all over the walls. It's a nightmare. She wakes

14:22

up from a nightmare. And this is one of the

14:24

first of many fantasy sequences in the movie. Guys, how

14:27

did you feel about the fact that she's constantly going

14:29

into fantasy fugues, like Brian Ben-Ben and Dream-On, except

14:32

instead of old TV clips, they're fantasies? I

14:35

will say that there are points later on

14:37

that take us inside her thinking that are

14:39

fantasies that I find very effective. This

14:44

sort of symbolic, metaphorical

14:47

dream stuff, I could do with that. Yeah,

14:50

and it feels like it is a way to try

14:52

to... The movie is constantly running with hints

14:55

or themes of women in peril, or women

14:57

feeling like they're in danger. And

14:59

it felt like it was a cheap way to get her

15:01

to hear a woman crying out for help,

15:05

and for the audience to be like, oh, what's happening? I

15:07

know this story. I

15:09

don't know. I think that

15:11

this scenario made less sense than some

15:13

of them, but I feel

15:15

like when the intention

15:17

behind them is motivated by

15:19

she's scared and she's imagining

15:21

how she could be threatened,

15:24

then it makes a lot

15:26

more sense than... I

15:28

don't know. Honestly, I feel like

15:30

I probably would have written this piece of shit, so I'm

15:32

very defensive of it. No,

15:35

I agree with you,

15:37

though. There's stuff when she has

15:40

fantasies of how things could go wrong, or

15:43

there's stuff that's her

15:46

justifying maybe her feelings for this

15:48

man who

15:51

she's constructing a world that doesn't exist

15:53

because she's supporting this romantic fantasy. Both

15:56

of those are effective. Here,

15:58

it's just like, okay, well, we just... We just

16:00

entered into the movie. What's going on? Why

16:02

are you wasting time with a dog fantasy?

16:05

Yeah, you could say it's a thematic foreshadowing

16:07

of her bringing something innocent, looking into her

16:09

life, and it maybe becoming a danger to

16:11

her. Except the danger, as we'll see, is

16:14

it's hard to parse how much of that is actually

16:17

real or not, and how much of it she's feeding

16:19

into. And so it's, anyway, it's very confusing. It was

16:21

like, if this was tar, I'd be like, it doesn't

16:23

have to be a dream sequence. There's a killer dog.

16:25

She just goes about her day. Yeah. But the tone

16:28

of this movie is a little different. So Margot's friend,

16:30

Taylor, he- So he's on the tar.

16:34

Look, not only is it a great movie, there are huge

16:36

pits of it in the city we live in, you know?

16:39

Just lying there. You can scoop it

16:41

out for free. Yeah,

16:44

just take a mug, bring your mug down

16:46

to the pits, just get yourself a cup

16:48

of tar, slurp it down. You

16:51

know, give up the works. You

16:54

can really taste the dead mammoth. It's

16:56

great. So Margot has a friend, Taylor.

16:58

Her friend, Taylor, has a B-story runner,

17:01

I guess, where she is mad at the

17:03

co-moderator of her feminist online chat group. Because

17:05

it turns out he's actually a guy who

17:07

was pretending to be a

17:09

woman in order to be an ally, but

17:11

he didn't know how or something. And Margot

17:14

goes to her biology class. She becomes so

17:16

fixated on an ant colony, almost hypnotized by

17:18

it. In an ant colony case that she

17:20

startled when Professor Isabella Rossellini taps

17:22

her on the shoulder. And this is a character

17:26

that doesn't need to be in the movie,

17:28

totally pointless. I don't care. If Isabella

17:30

Rossellini is in the movie, that's a net plus for me.

17:32

I don't care what she's doing. I want her to be

17:34

in every movie. But why did she want to be in

17:36

this movie? Cha-ching.

17:41

She must have gotten paid like 90% of

17:44

the budget must have been getting Isabella Rossellini.

17:48

Most of her role is giving a speech about

17:50

how ant queens choose their sexual partners, which she's

17:52

going to give that speech anyway. She loves that.

17:54

That's her job. She does

17:56

those videos about bugs having sex. It's

17:59

so great. Those don't pay the bills. They're

18:02

just like, oh, you're going to pay me to do

18:04

it? But this is another case

18:06

in which she set up to be like, this is

18:08

all this ant colony stuff about like, yo. She

18:11

actually asked that to be written

18:13

into the movie because I kept wondering,

18:15

why does this archeologist have an ant

18:17

colony? That made no sense. She

18:20

seems to be either an archeologist, an

18:22

anthropologist, or an entomologist, or all three. She's

18:24

a triple threat. They go, oh, Isabelle Rossellini,

18:26

she's a triple threat. Archeologist, anthropologist,

18:29

entomologist, she could do it all. If

18:32

she's going to find a society of prehistoric cave

18:34

ants that have tools, then her

18:36

whole career makes sense. But you're right, she's just kind

18:39

of a general college professor. She

18:41

just kind of teaches everything. Yeah.

18:43

I mean, well, and she's all this ant

18:45

stuff too, ladled on

18:48

top of the dog stuff that

18:50

starts the movie. It's just like,

18:52

there's a lot of animal metaphors

18:54

being tossed around. And

18:57

you're making a very good point. Choose your

18:59

lane and stay in it. Are you an ant

19:01

movie or a dog movie? I mean, your

19:03

title says you're a cat movie. Yes, exactly. Thank

19:05

you, Dan. It's so

19:07

confusing. This

19:10

kind of, oh, we don't have to choose what kind of

19:12

movie we are with what kind of animal we deal with.

19:14

This is the problem with Hollywood today. Thank you, Dan, for

19:16

finally putting a name to

19:18

it. And she also, they examine the bones

19:20

from a female sacrificial victim, which

19:23

this is a movie that so many of the details

19:25

talk about. Tie

19:27

into this theme of the fear of women

19:29

for men that at a certain point, I

19:31

was like, is there anything else going on

19:33

in this world? It seems like

19:35

everything is all about this. And I can't tell if that's

19:37

good writing or bad writing. What do you think? Food for

19:39

thought. I mean, okay,

19:42

so here's my thought. I'm

19:44

curious because I kept being like,

19:46

oh, like I'm wondering

19:49

if this film

19:51

was like more on the nose than most

19:54

films and I'm wondering if it's like, this

19:56

makes you guys

19:58

more uncomfortable. So it's

20:00

like just as on the nose as

20:02

most films, but it's like, stop

20:05

hitting with us over the head. Like women are

20:07

afraid of men. And I'm like, yeah,

20:09

we are guys. I

20:12

mean, that's, that's completely possible

20:14

because my, you know, like my reaction

20:16

to the cat person story was like,

20:18

Oh, this is good. I'm

20:21

not sure why it's setting the world on fire.

20:23

And I think that's because I am

20:25

not on that side of it. So like,

20:27

it doesn't speak to me in the same

20:29

way, you know, so I could just

20:33

not be a good audience for

20:35

either, uh, the

20:37

story or the movie, but the movie does seem a

20:39

lot more muddled in what it's

20:41

doing and maybe we get into that as we go

20:44

on. So that night at the

20:46

theater, red vines guy, we learned his name is

20:48

Robert comes back, he snarky back to her and

20:50

she fantasizes about going into the theater and sitting

20:52

next to him, but she doesn't really,

20:54

she just kind of looks at him. And after

20:57

the movie, he tells her to give her his

20:59

number and she does, even though in the moment,

21:01

she's like, why am I doing this? And there's

21:03

a montage of them texting back and forth with

21:05

each other for days. It's lots of banter over

21:07

text. They, it's so

21:09

fun. They just love it. Uh, Taylor is

21:11

like, stop texting so much. Don't get

21:13

involved with him, but they're interrupted by their musical

21:15

theater friends coming in to promote their production into

21:17

the woods. And they start singing into the woods.

21:20

Here you go, Elliot. This is something that has

21:22

nothing to do with the theme of the movie.

21:25

A little bit into the woods. This is nothing to

21:27

do with the theme of young women maturing through, through

21:29

their encounter with older possible predators. Yeah, sure. And it

21:31

was one of those things where I was like, you

21:34

know what? This movie is

21:36

really tapping into the frustration. I felt going to a

21:38

college that had a musical theater program where the musical

21:40

theater students were constantly bursting into the songs from into

21:42

the woods. So, and I mean, and rent at the

21:44

time, it was a lot of rent, but also into

21:46

the woods. So it was one of those things where

21:48

I was like, is this good

21:51

or is it bad? Or is it just that

21:53

it's, it's reminding me of a thing I don't

21:55

like that I experienced. Elliot, I'd like to point

21:57

out that in literally the previous episode, you burst.

22:00

into the song, the title

22:02

song from Into the Woods. Yeah, yeah,

22:04

but I did it in a fun way. Yeah, I

22:06

mean, I guess you also got the

22:08

lyrics a little bit wrong, so you know, you proved your

22:11

bona fides as not a theater nerd. Yeah, there you

22:13

go. I think it was something like, Into

22:16

the Woods, we're going into those woods,

22:18

hey, check out the woods, we're going

22:20

into them, into those woods. You

22:24

just forgot that they also go out of the

22:27

woods before they go home before dark. That's right.

22:30

That's right, also. What about the

22:32

ones who live in the woods? Like the sloths? There's

22:37

not a lot known about them. Science

22:40

still has to do a little work on

22:42

the sloths. Unfortunately, Professor Isabella Rosolini has not

22:44

done that work yet in her multifaceted career.

22:47

She's working from smallest to biggest.

22:51

She's like the Renfield of scientists. Yeah.

22:54

So one night, Robert brings some snacks tomorrow at

22:56

the science lab because she says she's so hungry with, I

22:58

guess she has, I don't know if she's studying or if

23:00

she has a job as a lab assistant. I

23:02

guess she's like, Oh, very unclear. Another

23:05

unclear, just like, yeah. And

23:09

they kind of talk awkwardly once he gets there

23:11

and aunt bites Margo and Robert smashes it really

23:13

loudly. And she's kind of scared,

23:15

but she shows him the storage room where the

23:17

sacrificial bones are. No, he doesn't

23:19

show him. He just goes in. He just walks

23:22

in. And then he says, what's this? Seeing

23:27

her go in and look at what

23:29

it is. Let me tell you one thing. Going

23:31

into a door and saying, what's this? Doesn't

23:33

make you a creep unless Jack Skellington is

23:36

a creep. Checkmate Hallie went

23:38

into a door, said, what's this? Everybody loved

23:40

it. Yep. Years

23:43

later, they're still selling hot topic. Commemorating

23:45

the time that he went into a door

23:48

and said, what's this? And said, what's this?

23:50

And he did with that information. I don't totally

23:53

approve of stealing

23:55

Christmas. I'm not sure. And he didn't have to

23:57

say it was. Yeah. And

23:59

I don't know. Did the

24:01

lady who lost her arm really come out on

24:04

top in that? What's your

24:06

name again? The doll lady? Sally.

24:08

Sally? I mean she could sew it back on

24:11

though. She's a you know, she's a doll lady.

24:13

She shouldn't have to dance. She shouldn't have to.

24:15

No, I'm not referring to the arm.

24:17

I'm referring to she just transferred

24:19

her you know

24:22

allegiance from the professor

24:24

mad scientist to Jack

24:26

Skillington who never seemed

24:28

particularly interested. No, he

24:30

was not a good Romantic interest.

24:32

No, but at the very end at the very

24:34

end. I mean he still calls her a friend,

24:36

but still yeah He's more taken up by his

24:38

new Christmas hobby Ladies

24:41

if your man is more interested in Chris

24:44

and stealing Christmas than you kick him to

24:46

the curb He is not the man for

24:48

you. Yeah Find

24:50

a man who

24:52

looks at you the way Jack Skillington looks

24:54

at Christmas. That's what I'm saying ladies Someone

24:59

man wants to unlock all your

25:01

riddles anyway, so

25:04

So that's right. He just wanders into the room Thank

25:06

you for correcting me and she goes in after him

25:08

and the door closes and locks and she suspects him

25:10

of closing door to Get her in there with him

25:13

She fantasizes that he attacks her but and she starts

25:15

to panic and he slams the door open so hard

25:17

that it smashes the ant case Killing the ant colony

25:20

Professor Isabella Rossellini is as shattered as

25:22

the ant case. We don't see her again

25:24

for the rest of the movie. I think

25:31

And that night we decided to join her ants in

25:34

in the God Hill so Robert

25:36

walks her to her dorm and she says I'm

25:39

leaving for break But I want you to keep

25:41

texting me and she kisses and he kisses her

25:43

on the farhead And then there's another lots of

25:45

texting back and forth montage. She takes the train

25:47

home To her cartoonishly kind of

25:49

type a wealthy family and they're all curious about

25:51

Robert and her mom Hope Davis who yes I

25:54

used to see on the subway all the time

25:56

tells her that Keep

25:58

that a finding a man means accepting

26:00

discomfort and bullies her into performing a

26:02

sexy duet of My Heart Belongs to

26:04

Daddy at her stepdad's 60th birthday. It's

26:06

just one of the strangest moments. Definitely.

26:10

Like, what? And

26:13

the thing, and what's especially bad is, I mean,

26:15

it's all, it's supposed to be awkward. It's not

26:17

supposed to be awkward. Yeah, that was a great

26:19

performance. I loved it. You know, it's not singing

26:21

in the rain where the songs are enjoyable to

26:23

the audience. But that the audience at his party

26:25

is like hooting and hollering and catcalling. Like, the

26:27

whole thing is so uncomfortable. It's supposed to be,

26:29

but still. Yeah, I look, I mean, it's

26:32

effective. It's, it's

26:34

all, it's a little confusing to me because, so,

26:37

okay. Because she's being very

26:39

sexy, right? Yeah,

26:42

I'm confused. I'm confused by

26:45

my arrest. Sorry, I shouldn't have said

26:47

it. I know, I know

26:49

it's just, it's gross. It's like, it makes you

26:51

like think about this, how

26:54

baked into society this is. The idea is

26:56

like, oh, we're going to sing a sexy

26:58

song about how my heart belongs to daddy.

27:00

She's literally singing it to her father. To

27:02

her stepfather. Yeah. And so that about younger

27:04

women and older men and all the ends,

27:06

the how deeply that's baked in. Going back.

27:08

Yes. But I don't, no, no, no, no,

27:10

no. Because this is, this is where I

27:12

want to put my foot out. Because I

27:14

do feel like actually this

27:16

like taps into like a

27:19

lot of really uncomfortable young

27:21

women's experiences. But like this

27:23

seemed insane. Like, I

27:25

do not believe that this

27:27

would ever actually happen. That a

27:30

mother would ask her daughter to

27:32

perform this like sexy dance member for

27:34

her stepfather. And that she would be

27:36

a little, I

27:39

wasn't actually joking that like, I

27:41

mean, there was not enough, there

27:44

was not enough performed discomfort in this

27:46

scene to like, make it make sense

27:48

to me. I was like, what is

27:50

going on? I mean, once she agrees to do

27:52

it, they put their all into it. She is, you

27:54

know what, in for a penny in for a pound.

27:57

I'm gonna I'm gonna get every she's like she's like

27:59

Don Trapper's. I've seen in zuby zuby zoo like

28:01

she's this wants everybody to be hot and heavy in

28:03

the room I mean, I know that a strange choice.

28:06

I know that Elliott has seen several videos,

28:08

you know predicated on a similar Which

28:14

I don't I don't like this No,

28:18

not a fan no, thank you anyway,

28:21

so the I'm not even sure which I didn't

28:23

want to know exactly what kind of videos you're

28:25

pointing to but I'm Implying

28:27

things about your consumption of pornography. It's

28:30

all I worry about it Dan All

28:32

the only porn I care about is when Sonic and

28:34

Knuckles are having a baby together Because

28:37

that's about the relationship they have yeah about

28:39

how they're gonna care for that child Yes,

28:41

and it's an emotionally committed thing that you

28:43

can put yourself in you project yourself into

28:45

Sonic you protect something the knuckle Thank you.

28:47

You feel cared for Dan

28:50

the largest eruption is known as the human heart. Yeah

28:53

Oh No, wait,

28:55

actually it's don't touch it though. Like don't

28:57

know crack it open and try and like

28:59

yeah Don't give someone a heart job. That's

29:01

not okay. Yeah The

29:05

only heart job you should get is handing out Valentine's Consensually

29:09

to people who have ordered the Valentine's

29:14

Like the helicopter Don't

29:20

let it you shouldn't have a dog in your helicopter anyway Let

29:23

alone an organ transport helicopter. Yeah So

29:26

after the party she hangs out

29:28

with her ex-boyfriend who reveals her high school

29:30

boyfriend who reveals that he's actually asexual now

29:33

and that seems to kind of rile

29:35

something up in her and she Texts

29:37

Robert a sexy picture of herself in a 90

29:40

and when he doesn't respond right away She gets

29:42

nervous and texts him that she sent it as

29:44

a mistake What

29:49

would you describe it is Night

29:52

gown like like

29:54

that. I was such a in

30:00

a cute way. Yeah, and I can't imagine the

30:02

night down. It's a 90. Yeah, yeah. So

30:04

she was wishing him a 90 night. Yeah. Just

30:07

to play 90 night bugs. The only Bugs Bunny cartoon

30:09

ever to win an Academy Award for some reason. How

30:13

is covering her face in dismay?

30:16

Oh, we haven't gotten yet. There's a moment in the movie

30:18

that's coming up very soon. We're going to very soon. Well,

30:21

I feel like this movie was really speaking for a Hallie

30:23

and we'll get to that. Can

30:25

I stop for a moment and say like one thing that

30:27

I like about this movie? Because like this movie is an

30:30

interesting one because

30:32

I'll tip my hand a little bit. Like it's

30:34

not so much that I think that this movie is bad. It

30:36

is an unusual adaptation of the source

30:39

material, which can be fine. I just

30:41

had a hard time getting the source

30:43

material out of my head while watching

30:45

it. So my feelings about this are

30:47

kind of all over the map. But

30:49

I do think that the movie was good at a

30:52

lot of things. And one of them was depicting how,

30:54

you know, when

30:56

you are dating in

30:59

this day and age, like texting

31:01

can allow you to sort of get

31:03

your get yourself out in front

31:05

of your skis and a way that like, yes, very, get

31:07

your hopes up. Like, like,

31:10

establish a like false

31:13

familiarity and like,

31:18

like, allow you to fantasize about like

31:20

what this could be. Yeah. I

31:22

think this movie is actually really good at that. Yeah.

31:25

I haven't seen. No, I think in a way that

31:27

doesn't feel there's some things in the movie that feel

31:29

a little false to me, but that does not. I

31:32

feel like these two people would text these things and

31:34

they would get the incorrect impression from them. And it's

31:36

not like, oh, you said this, but I thought you

31:38

meant this, but you mean this just the incorrect profession

31:40

of how compatible they are or how comfortable they are

31:43

with each other. You know, I

31:45

do think a lot of that comes from the

31:47

original story, but the movie is effective in, in,

31:49

you know, adapting that. Yeah. And

31:52

so if I take them days to finally text

31:55

her back and he says work has been busy.

31:57

Taylor, her friend is like, cut this relationship.

32:00

off. Get out of there. But

32:02

Margot... She says get your power

32:04

back. Okay, oh that's right. Get

32:06

your power back. So not cut

32:08

it off, but like she's

32:12

texting too much. Like make him

32:14

be the the theta.

32:18

Make him the chaser rather than the

32:20

chaser. And Margot

32:23

accepts Robert's invitation to see Empire Strikes Back

32:25

at the theater she works in and

32:27

she exclaims out loud, Star Wars is so

32:29

boring and I was like did Halle write

32:32

this movie? Halle, did you feel seen in

32:34

that moment? I felt so

32:36

seen. I was literally like

32:38

this is a movie for

32:40

women. I really

32:42

felt like oh my gosh that

32:44

like to be like are you fucking

32:47

kidding me? You're asking me to go see Star

32:49

Wars. Not only are you asking me to go

32:51

to my place of work, not only are you

32:53

like texting me out of the blue, but like

32:55

you're asking me to go see Star Wars and

32:57

I am like caught between pretending

32:59

to like give

33:01

a shit and

33:04

also being like really mad that you

33:06

didn't realize that I wouldn't give a shit.

33:08

Like I thought that was an elegant

33:10

choice. Yeah, I think so too. And it just

33:12

took me back to the moment in the Daily Show offices

33:14

when you said how much longer am I gonna have to

33:16

listen to you guys sign on fucking Star Wars? Yeah,

33:19

I think that was when Halle

33:21

and I were arguing about Job of the Hood. I

33:24

understand the Star Wars exhaustion

33:26

and it speaks to a real

33:29

thing out in the world. I mean I know that there are also thousands,

33:33

millions of women out there who love Star Wars, but

33:35

I get what. Not actually Star Wars exhaustion so much

33:37

as Star Wars indifference, being forced to care about a

33:39

thing that or pretend to care about a thing like

33:41

Halle is saying, you do not care about it.

33:44

But what about the Harrison Ford slam? How

33:47

do you feel about that? Halle? I

33:49

shouldn't slam her in. Okay.

33:52

It was just like this has to be the

33:54

most important person and she was like yeah whatever.

33:56

I mean I have a

33:59

section for regarding

34:01

Henry. You

34:04

have affection regarding Henry.

34:07

Regarding regarding Henry. Also say, Harrison

34:10

Ford is in a lot of different kinds of movies and

34:14

you don't have to pigeonhole

34:16

him into, you know. He's in

34:18

random hearts. What Lies Beneath? It was funny to me

34:20

though that later on. There's a scene later on where

34:22

he's like, I think I have a DVD of Working

34:24

Girl around here. So even his idea of

34:26

a movie for women still has four different things. That's

34:29

pretty funny. He mentions that Harrison

34:31

Ford is the... Wait, you guys got what I was

34:33

saying, that he's in regarding Henry, right? Yeah, no, yeah.

34:35

No, I understand. Yeah, no, we got it. Yeah. We

34:37

also were aware of that fact. Yeah, we got it.

34:40

J.J. Abrams scripted regarding Henry. Have

34:42

you guys ever heard of movies?

34:45

There's this thing that Harrison Ford

34:47

is... I mean,

34:49

what you just said, Hallie, I feel like it's the

34:51

subtext of so many scenes of this movie is, men

34:53

say to women, have you heard of movies? And

34:56

then what they're really saying is, let me explain to you about

34:58

the movie I think is a movie. And I don't care about

35:00

you. Robert's constantly being like,

35:02

oh, you probably just subtitled foreign movies

35:05

about, you know, Rwanda or whatever. And it's like,

35:07

in his mind, those are the two types of movies. Empire

35:09

Strikes Back and a subtitled movie that's super

35:12

hard to see about impressing things. But also

35:14

the movie she said she watched the

35:16

most was spirited away, and it's like,

35:18

all right, that's pretty fucking nerdy.

35:20

Guy nerdy. Yes.

35:24

That was a movie when – that was the moment when she was

35:26

like, well, spirited away, and he's like, oh, yeah, I've heard of the

35:28

director, but I haven't seen it. I'm

35:30

familiar with the director. And it's like, he definitely

35:32

saw that movie. He's definitely seen Miyazaki movies. There's

35:34

no way he hasn't seen those. But

35:37

he says he's like Harrison Ford is objectively the

35:39

coolest guy, like the epitome of cool or something.

35:41

And it's like – I like

35:44

that as a moment of, he's

35:46

so mature that his idea of what the coolest guy is is essentially

35:48

like a fictional pirate, like

35:50

a fictional wisecracking pirate. So the date

35:52

is very awkward. They see Empire Strikes

35:54

Back. His car is gross. She

35:57

fantasizes about him murdering her

35:59

again. In the movie

36:01

she keeps and maybe it's not a fantasizing. Maybe

36:03

it's a she's catastrophizing I don't know in the

36:05

movie She keeps talking during the movie and he

36:07

just wants to watch the movie and is like

36:09

very non-committal And I've definitely been that guy where

36:11

a woman has watched a movie with me and

36:13

started talking and I've been like yeah Yeah, but

36:16

we're watching a movie like let's talk after the movie. I've been

36:18

that kind of awkward That

36:21

you've seen like that many times that you're

36:23

on a first date with it's like well,

36:25

that's not the case It's always it's

36:27

in this case It's been a movie I either haven't seen or movie I

36:30

haven't seen in a long time if it's a movie like if I was

36:32

I'm never gonna be on a date with another woman again because my

36:34

heart belongs to my wife But if I was on a date with

36:36

someone we were watching taking a pal in one two three Yeah, we

36:39

talked to that whole thing. I've seen that move. I've 40 I

36:42

mean I understand like I understand the

36:44

movie wants me to like Look

36:47

at him as an asshole in the scene and

36:49

sympathize with her which I totally would if they were

36:51

watching it And his at home,

36:53

but in this scene. I'm like, yeah, shut up.

36:55

You're in a fucking movie theater Whispering

36:58

through the whole thing. I

37:01

guess I'm defensive because I feel like

37:03

she was already forced in not

37:07

This is this is what I thought

37:09

it did so well with yeah Like

37:13

pull the curtain back between like I

37:15

really felt like her inner monologue was

37:17

pretty Accurate about like it's

37:19

not like she has to go to this movie.

37:21

It's not like she has to keep but

37:24

she keeps like

37:26

it's like a push

37:28

and pull between like a Fantasy

37:30

of what this can turn out to be

37:32

and a guilt with knowing that like this

37:34

definitely isn't and there's no Like

37:38

there's no vision of reality.

37:40

It's just those two extremes.

37:42

Yeah Yeah, well and her

37:44

coddling like his sensitivities Well,

37:47

that's the yeah, yeah, yeah, and

37:49

I think it's a there's something about I think I

37:51

think you're right That's like her inner thinking is

37:53

so clear But I wish the movie didn't have her

37:55

like saying it all the time I

37:58

wish the movie would trust the audience to like I

38:00

feel like the short story, trust the audience

38:02

to feel and understand those feelings without stating

38:05

them outright and the movie kind of doesn't, doesn't

38:07

trust the audience. But anyway, they go out for

38:09

a drink, but she gets carded and she reveals

38:11

she's only 20 and she starts to cry and

38:13

feels dumb about it. And he kisses her ridiculously

38:15

badly, just a very clumsy kisser. That was so

38:17

funny. You guys didn't think that was very funny?

38:19

No, that kiss I thought was very funny because

38:21

it's like he's never even seen a kiss before.

38:23

He doesn't know what he's doing. And

38:26

I'll tell you that that guy I have not been. When

38:28

I started kissing, I knew what I was doing.

38:30

Oh, yeah. All

38:33

right. Danielle told

38:35

you. Yeah, I mean, I

38:37

guess so. You're the best kissing

38:39

I've ever kissed. Are

38:42

you in the band's kiss? Because we're so good at it.

38:45

They go to a second bar where Taylor tells Taylor

38:48

is talking to her over the phone in the bathroom because

38:50

ladies always have to go to the bathroom in groups. Even

38:52

if they're not with each other, they call each other on

38:54

the phone. But anyway, and Taylor is like, don't go back

38:56

to his house end of this date. But

38:58

Margot was like, but if I have sex

39:00

with him, he'd be so grateful because he's

39:03

such a dork and

39:05

she decides to go home with him. No, but

39:07

okay. Okay, okay. No, but I think that

39:09

like misframes it a little bit because I

39:12

think we're supposed to draw context from the fact

39:14

that like she's just been told her the

39:17

person she last her virginity to. Basically,

39:21

only serious relationship we know in

39:23

her life is asexual,

39:25

which is telling her like, it's

39:28

not that I was discussed as having sex with you,

39:30

I'm just discussed about sex in general. And

39:32

she is like, I

39:35

think it's not just like, oh, she

39:37

would feel like so grateful so I should do

39:39

it. It's also like, I think she wants

39:42

to feel desired. Yeah,

39:45

I think that's true too. I think those are two sides of the same coin. I

39:48

don't think I don't think they're different things. And she has a

39:50

moment where the bathroom she's in the wallpaper is just like lots

39:52

of turn of the century women's faces and

39:54

she kisses one before she walks out and I really like

39:56

that. That was the kind of small little moment that I

39:58

thought the movie could have used more of. And one of

40:00

them looked exactly like Michael Jackson,

40:03

right? I didn't know that. That

40:05

one I didn't see, I have to admit. All right, well, go

40:07

back. I didn't see that. I was watching it on a big

40:09

enough screen. And

40:12

they go home. He challenges her

40:14

to name an Indiana Jones movie, which again, that felt

40:16

very real to me. And

40:19

she imagines briefly that there's a torture chamber there.

40:21

She's scared, but also, like you're saying, Hallie, I

40:24

think you're right. She wants to be desired. She

40:26

likes that feeling. But once

40:28

she gets into a super nerdy bedroom... I'm not like... Okay.

40:31

But you're putting it like she

40:33

likes that feeling. It's like

40:35

she is vulnerable to that, specifically

40:37

in that moment. It's

40:40

not just like women like... I mean,

40:42

women... No, no, but I'm not saying that. I'm saying just

40:44

in this moment. I agree with you. I don't think

40:46

it's... I'm not saying as since Eve, she has... As

40:49

with all women since Eve, they have... Okay, let's not. You

40:51

know, they've longed to be... I'm not saying that.

40:54

Let's not bring up fictional characters. Uh, Dan... The

40:56

planet of fictional characters. Fictional? Fictional?

40:58

Hello? No,

41:01

actually. I'm just... I'm being provocative to get

41:03

clear. Elliott

41:07

brought up Eve. And you'll never guess what

41:09

Dan said next. You know? So

41:11

they get into this nerdy bedroom and she

41:14

has a conversation with herself. She's talking to

41:18

herself across the room in which they are

41:20

like, what the hell are you doing here?

41:22

Why are you doing this? You could leave

41:24

at any moment. You could say no right

41:26

now. And they're having this conversation while she's

41:28

allowing Robert to have this kind of clumsy,

41:30

ignorant sex with her. Someone

41:32

who has minimal to no experience with an

41:34

actual other human person, it seems like,

41:36

and is doing what he thinks he's supposed to be doing

41:38

based on the pornography he's seen. And

41:41

yes, Hallie. Hallie Highlands, the flophouse. Yeah. I

41:45

just want to say really quickly. You

41:47

said his nerdy bedroom. Yeah.

41:49

And I think that... I actually... He

41:52

has a DVD of Minority Report. No, yes.

41:54

Just laying out on a cabinet. Yeah.

41:57

And that's not what is offensive. So,

42:00

like I literally had flashbacks

42:03

to like any experience

42:05

in my life where I was

42:08

young and in that situation. And

42:10

it's not just like, oh, there's

42:12

like the minority

42:14

report CBD. It's

42:17

that there's like a half

42:19

drunk slurpee and like three

42:21

beer cans. And like you own

42:23

this home and it's like

42:25

not exactly a mess. But it's

42:28

like, if I lived alone, I

42:30

would never leave my home. Like

42:32

there's something very

42:34

immature about the way he takes care

42:37

of his face. It's not just nerdy.

42:40

It's like, flashback to college age Dan

42:42

who was not aware of how often

42:44

he should wash his sheets. Look,

42:48

I'm being, I'm being forthright.

42:53

I'm being honest. Like there are certain

42:55

things that like I should have known,

42:58

didn't really like sink in like

43:00

didn't like know how to

43:03

take care of myself in those ways.

43:05

And I was too lazy to learn. And

43:08

it was only later in life. I definitely had at

43:10

least one time where women came back to my apartment

43:12

and were like, this place is a mess.

43:15

Like we're very open with saying the things that Margo does

43:17

not say. They're like, this is a mess. You need to

43:19

not leave papers all over the floor and things like that.

43:21

And it wasn't like food all over, but I'd have like

43:23

papers and books all over the place. And

43:26

every surface comes. Chicken bones covering everything.

43:28

Yeah, that's because I lived in the

43:30

Texas Chainsaw Massacre House. That was leatherfish

43:32

and stuff. That wasn't mine. I thought

43:34

you were the girl from Girl Interrupted

43:37

who keeps all the chicken carcasses

43:39

underneath their bed. Ew,

43:41

gross. Different references. Yeah. Go

43:44

ahead. Anyway, but or like every, I feel

43:46

like when you're a young man often every

43:48

open surface becomes a place to put a

43:50

thing. So I get that. That's true.

43:53

And when you walk into that room, you're like, this is

43:55

horrible. Like you live in a stye. And

43:57

you write, this house is not so dirty.

44:00

that is like it's not like a serial killer's

44:02

pit you know but it is it does show

44:04

someone who does not show care in what

44:07

he's doing in the in the home that he lives in

44:09

especially when he thinks he might be bringing someone home with

44:11

him you know like a very like

44:14

textbook like recognizable

44:17

like like immature

44:20

even when like at their kitchen yes go ahead

44:22

yeah it's like there's all those pictures that go

44:24

around online where it's like some guys like I

44:26

got my perfect apartment set up and they have

44:28

like a mattress on the floor without even a

44:31

box spring there's a big video game chair and

44:33

a huge TV and that's their entire apartment that's

44:35

all the furnishings and you're like okay like this

44:37

is I guess yeah this young guys do yeah

44:39

sure well and this is I mean this is

44:41

another place to where I thought the movie was

44:43

very effective and and I you

44:47

know discomforting in the sense that like

44:49

they're having two different experiences

44:51

in a way that

44:53

like you can

44:56

totally understand why

44:58

he thinks everything's okay like you're not

45:00

like mad at him for it but

45:02

like she is having this whole other

45:04

thing going on and you're like shit

45:08

man like like it makes

45:10

you just like worry about life

45:12

and be like you know like it shows you

45:14

the important of like constant active consent because she

45:17

is totally like well

45:19

and going through a thing with a

45:21

thing kind of just because she sort

45:24

of like decided maybe earlier that she

45:26

wanted to and now she doesn't know

45:28

what she was totally obliviousness

45:30

on his part that he is not

45:32

recognizing anything that's going on with her

45:34

you know he's living out a

45:36

fantasy that he is he assumes his reality

45:39

and it's not the same for her you

45:41

know and like and this

45:43

is also fueled by her fantasy early on

45:45

earlier on where like we one of the

45:47

more effective things see inside of her brain

45:49

I think is like it's how there's four

45:51

different people that each represent one part of

45:53

her brain there's this there's the

45:55

nerd Yeah,

46:01

no, but no, but she has

46:03

this fantasy earlier on where like she's

46:06

imagining him at his therapist

46:09

talking about her and casting

46:11

everything in a much more romantic

46:14

way. And like even in

46:16

a way where she's like not necessarily wrong about

46:18

things, like she's like, Oh, you know, he wanted

46:20

to share this movie with him with

46:23

me because it was important to him and it was romantic

46:25

to him, you know, like, and she's not wrong about that.

46:27

But she's also making all these

46:29

kind of pre excuses for him. And

46:31

it's a very effective thing. I thought,

46:35

eventually, so she goes, she has

46:37

this experience is very unpleasant, she regrets the

46:39

whole thing instantly. They do they start to

46:41

watch a DVD together in bed, it's like

46:43

a European dubbed version of

46:46

working girl with and,

46:48

and he reveals that he's 33 years old,

46:50

and that he was worried that when she

46:52

went home for break, she would lose interest

46:54

in him, that maybe she'd like get back

46:56

together with an old high school boyfriend, and

46:58

that the picture she sent him in her

47:00

90 I'm saying it again, was meant maybe

47:02

for this other guy. And that's

47:04

why he got he was very hurt by it. Because when

47:07

she said that was a mistake to you, he thought, Oh,

47:09

she's seeing someone else. But now he knows he should trust

47:11

her. And it's funny, because he is

47:13

there's a way that they could play this that would have

47:15

been, I think, very funny, where he's like, I know I

47:17

can trust you. We're real at the moment that she has

47:19

decided in her head, I can never see this guy ever

47:21

again, you know, this cannot happen again. It's

47:24

a bad thing a person where she's tugging at her

47:26

collar. What's happening? Yeah.

47:29

And she says, you should drive me home right

47:31

now. And as soon as she walks in the

47:34

door, he texts her to make more plans. And

47:36

I have been the guy who wants to make

47:38

plans again right away and, and

47:40

annoys people like that, not a long time

47:43

again, that then I reached the stage where I

47:45

was like, I'm never showing interest in anyone else

47:47

ever again, and that backfired the same way. So

47:50

it's hard. Let's talk about it. Let's dig into

47:52

it, Elliot. Let's go through your whole day. Anyway,

47:55

so the year was 1994. So the next day.

48:00

You were twelve. I was

48:02

twelve, but very mature for my

48:04

age. A little movie

48:06

called... what was going on in 94? Was

48:09

that Speed? A Little movie called Shawshank

48:11

Redemption came out and changed the way

48:14

I thought about escaping from prison. So

48:17

the next day, Taylor tells Margo, you gotta

48:19

block him. Guys, good news, Speed was

48:21

in 1994. I was right about that. So

48:24

it was called Shawshank Redemption. Okay, I'll fix that. I

48:26

mean, I'll fix that. I'll fix that. Shawshank...

48:30

94... Forest... Yeah,

48:34

94. What

48:36

a blockbuster year for movies. I like the it's a

48:38

forest as if you forgot the Gump part of it.

48:40

You hit it already.

48:45

Remind me of your last name again. I

48:49

was driving one of my

48:51

sons to a doctor's appointment in Santa Clarita

48:53

and we drove by the corporate headquarters of

48:56

the Andy Gump Company, the Porta Potty Company.

48:58

And I was so excited. I was like,

49:00

that's where their corporate headquarters are. And my

49:02

son was not as excited. But that's if

49:04

I wanted to get into the Porta Potty business,

49:06

but I was so close to it. Just a

49:08

long commute away. That's where they dump it all.

49:12

We're gumped up. I

49:15

was like, don't you think you can't start a dump

49:17

without most of Gump? Oh

49:20

no, Elliot's disappeared. No, no, I just spent that and put

49:23

something up. Yeah, Dan doesn't

49:25

have object permanence. It's okay.

49:27

So the next day,

49:29

Taylor's like block Margot and she's like,

49:31

he's suspicious. He told you he had

49:33

cats. There were no cats at his

49:35

house. Did you see that? Why would a man

49:37

lie about having a cat? Because he wants to

49:39

sound kind and gentle and loving and vulnerable. And

49:42

Margot stops responding to Robert's texts and imagines him

49:44

dying in a few different ways. And

49:46

then he sends her a montage of Harrison

49:48

Ford roughly kissing women in movies,

49:50

which I thought was a funny catch that he's done

49:52

that in a couple of different movies. And

49:55

Taylor takes the phone and runs into the bathroom and she texts

49:57

him, I'm not interested in you. And

50:00

he responds with an apology like, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to, I

50:03

didn't know I made you upset. Now

50:05

they're at a pretty tame birthday

50:07

drinks party for their Into the Woods

50:09

friend, and they see that Robert

50:11

is at the bar in the place

50:13

that they're in, and her friends surround her like

50:15

a herd of elephants protecting a baby elephant from

50:18

a predator so that he doesn't see her when

50:20

they all leave, which is a scene, this is

50:22

one of many scenes that's in the story, basically,

50:24

that this happens. But seeing it in person, and

50:26

maybe that doesn't feel this way, seeing

50:29

it in person, it went from being realistic to

50:31

a little silly to me. I was trying to

50:33

remember that because I did not go, I

50:37

remember that she saw him at a bar in the

50:39

story, but that was really the context that they all...

50:41

I think she says something like, they crowded around so

50:43

that he wouldn't see me or something like that. I

50:45

can't forget how she says it in the story. But

50:48

here it's like they're all shuffling together in one big crowd

50:50

out the door in

50:52

a way that maybe, I was asking for

50:54

that earlier scene to be funnier, maybe they pre-understood

50:56

my criticism and they were trying to give it

50:58

to me. I feel

51:00

like this movie can't quite

51:02

figure it in the same way, and it's

51:05

a movie that's getting at similar things somewhat, in

51:08

the same way that like Promising Young Woman, and maybe we'll talk

51:10

about this more later, I also had issues with how the tone

51:12

was all over the place. This one I kind of felt that

51:14

way too, in some ways, that the

51:16

movie cannot decide, I think, how real or how

51:19

funny or how big it wants

51:21

to be. Did you guys feel that way, or am

51:23

I reading... I mean, I know

51:27

that opinions vary on this movie, it's

51:29

controversial. I thought the Promising

51:31

Young Woman had a much

51:35

stronger handle over its tone. I

51:37

think that... I think that's true. The problem that

51:39

I have with this movie is largely just like,

51:42

it's slippery in that way.

51:44

Like there are things that

51:47

are very goofy and then stuff

51:49

that feels very, you

51:51

know, like small and frightening and,

51:53

you know, anyway. How do you

51:55

think? Oh yeah, how do you think? So

51:58

I feel like I'm not... actually

52:00

able to like like depersonalize

52:04

this because I think that and you guys as

52:10

like people that I've worked

52:12

with professionally who know things that

52:14

I'm trying to write like I feel like

52:16

these are like themes that I'm so

52:18

interested in seeing in creative

52:21

works and also like you

52:24

want to be playful with them but you

52:26

want to like bring their

52:28

true weight to light

52:31

and so constantly like

52:35

when people comment about

52:38

tone in specifically these

52:40

two movies and in general with like

52:42

works like these I'm like is it

52:44

just because like people are really

52:46

uncomfortable with this kind of with these

52:49

kind of themes that like don't exist

52:51

in movies because they haven't

52:53

existed yet I mean because like

52:56

speaking for myself it's not the themes it's

52:58

more that like I could see a version

53:00

of this movie that is very extreme

53:02

and is like didactic or

53:05

like you know ajut prop in the way that I

53:07

feel like promising young woman is a little bit more

53:09

where I'm seeing a woman is like I'm gonna get

53:11

make sure you understand this point and this one has

53:13

some of that or I could see a version of

53:15

this that's like really feels really real and like kind

53:18

of beautiful in how awkward

53:20

and uncomfortable the characters are

53:22

in what's going on with them and this

53:24

one okay so like look at like Woody

53:27

Allen he's between

53:29

all of that like it's neither

53:32

it's like real themes that

53:34

people in relationships you know like let's

53:37

cancel whatever but like real

53:39

themes that like people in

53:41

relationships can relate to

53:43

but also totally all

53:45

the way and like

53:47

absurd and so is

53:49

it just that like it's

53:52

more from the woman's point

53:54

of view which like doesn't happen at

53:56

times that is what makes like viewers

53:58

feel uncomfortable with it I mean I

54:00

will I I'm willing to

54:04

Go ahead. No, no, no, no, I don't think you're

54:06

indicting I just I

54:08

mean I'm kind of willing to go

54:10

with you on that because like I Generally

54:15

thinks that if the movie Entertains

54:17

and if the movie has

54:21

like something to say and is Communicating

54:24

it to me. I am less

54:26

of a tone policeman than like I think a

54:28

lot of people who Critique

54:30

movies like I like a movie that

54:33

where the tone is kind of all over the place because

54:35

I think that that's True or

54:37

to life. I mean this

54:39

one it might be that like some of that

54:41

makes me uncomfortable that I some You

54:44

know, I don't know how to respond to it. I think

54:46

with me. It's more like the parts that are uncomfortable I

54:48

kind of wanted to be more uncomfortable And it felt like

54:50

there was one of the issues I had with it was

54:53

the soundtrack is non-stop There's

54:55

constantly pop songs on the soundtrack kind of

54:57

underlining what's being done And it was like

55:00

I want to see and one of the things that that did

55:02

it for me In a good way

55:05

in terms of the tune in that scene where they're

55:07

in bed together And she's having the conversation with herself

55:09

Is that the music that's playing is music that he

55:12

put on and so it's part of the

55:14

scene rather than the movie kind of like nudging me in

55:16

the ribs about what's going on there is a number of

55:18

different scenes where I was like I want

55:20

to see this this is gonna be more uncomfortable and more

55:22

powerful to me if the movie is not It

55:25

feels a little bit more real. So it feels a little bit

55:27

less like it's it's Trying

55:30

to soften what's going on by putting a soundtrack

55:32

on this kind of ironic, you know, we're trying

55:34

to there's a moment We're coming up where She's

55:37

walking at night and she puts on her headphones and

55:39

she's listening to this Britney Spears song that I had

55:41

not heard before But which is all

55:43

about Britney Spears like it's pretty Are

55:48

you really that surprised that I had made that song come on

55:52

Swag it says it's pretty bitch.

55:55

Okay, I thought that was just what people were

55:57

saying about her. I didn't know the song But

56:00

in that moment, when she's listening to

56:02

that song and she's feeling

56:04

something, listening to that song, I was like, this is

56:06

a really powerful scene for me. This is really good

56:08

because a song that she likes, that's why it's on

56:11

her playlist, she's now – something

56:13

about it is underlining the moment

56:15

of fear and paranoia that she's

56:17

in and the trepidation she's feeling.

56:19

And I kind of wanted more stuff

56:21

like that. And when you're saying like, what's the difference between

56:23

this movie doing it and Woody Allen doing it aside –

56:25

like you said, setting aside of Woody Allen's stuff, is that

56:27

Woody Allen – not always. But for the

56:29

most part, in a movie like Annie Hall, it's just

56:32

better at it. The jokes are

56:34

funnier and the affecting moments are –

56:36

feel more real in that one particular

56:38

movie. Fair enough. I'm

56:41

not comparing this to – these

56:44

are complicated comparisons. Why not compare it to

56:46

any movie? But I will say, I'm not

56:48

going to be like, this is the female

56:51

Annie Hall. But I will say

56:53

– Now, who's this character? No.

56:57

No, I like this character. And this should call this

57:00

like a Manny Hall because it's from a lady's point

57:02

of view talking about a man. But I think that

57:04

like what you're –

57:06

what's bumping you about this is

57:08

like reiterating the theme of what

57:10

she's struggling with, which is just

57:13

like, I'm – like,

57:16

I feel like my job is to like make this

57:18

guy comfortable. And like I'm not the

57:20

star of this. Like he – I

57:25

say it's my husband's very same martini. No.

57:28

I could tell that was what was happening just off

57:31

screen. I saw that look of like – maybe I

57:33

texted for this. Who knows? No, I didn't. I didn't.

57:35

He was proud of it. Oh, that's very nice. I'm

57:37

blessed. Ladies, get yourself a man who

57:39

brings you martini in the middle of your podcast

57:41

and looks at you the way Jack Gillington looks

57:43

at Christmas. No, but the point

57:45

is that like I think that like

57:47

a big part of this is that like her

57:50

self-consciousness is – and

57:53

women's self-consciousness – or

57:55

I won't speak for all women. But the part

57:57

that I identified with is that like – It's

58:00

really my responsibility to make

58:03

this guy have

58:05

a good time. It's not my,

58:08

like, I'm not the star here.

58:10

Like, why am I

58:12

doing this? And that's like the,

58:14

you know, her, like, inner monologue

58:18

manifested as like the woman outside of her is

58:20

being like, you can say no. Like, why are

58:22

you doing this? Just like stop doing this. You

58:24

don't have to do this. And she's

58:26

like, but he's, he's

58:29

like here and I gave him

58:31

all these reasons why it would be upsetting

58:33

to him and it's like all about

58:35

like his experience. And so to

58:37

be like, the music you're hearing

58:40

is like backing up his

58:42

experience, like makes sense. No,

58:44

I don't know. But I think that's the, I think that scene,

58:46

it works really well. And you know, oh, I thought you

58:49

were saying that you didn't like that. No, no. The

58:51

scene where he's playing the music, it's more like

58:53

when they're there, there's a part where they're going

58:55

to his house and there and there it's like they're

58:58

in the bar and there's a song playing as she picks

59:00

them up. This is being like super just pedantic,

59:02

but the there's a song like there's a needle

59:05

drop song when she walks out with him from

59:07

the bar. Then they go to his house. There's

59:09

another needle drop song as they're

59:11

going into the house. And it was like, and

59:13

this is something I feel in a lot of movies is I'm

59:15

like, let me live in this moment without the

59:17

music. Like let me live in this awkward moment

59:19

of her about to go into his house. He

59:21

thinks one thing, she thinks another thing. They're both

59:24

there in the same moment. They're not they're feeling

59:26

different things. And they were just there

59:28

were times in the movie where I just want something.

59:30

I think the short story did really well, which is

59:32

it kind of told you what was happening

59:34

without telling you how to feel about it. And I feel like

59:36

the movie is is it's a

59:38

very delicate thing to do and a hard thing to

59:40

do. And I feel like the movie is not as

59:42

successful with that. And maybe the promise that I keep

59:44

like Dan mentioned earlier with him, like I keep comparing

59:46

it in my head to the story and maybe that's

59:48

the issue. The more we talk about it, the more

59:50

I kind of don't mind the movie being pushy just

59:52

in the sense that like, I

59:54

don't know, it was effective at making

59:57

me feel uncomfortable in making me like.

1:00:00

evaluate how many times like

1:00:03

things in my relationship have like I made

1:00:05

them about me just because I'm used to

1:00:08

like it being about me and you

1:00:11

know like I Went

1:00:13

at the stuff where he's like, let

1:00:15

me share this piece of art

1:00:18

or Media with

1:00:20

you because like I do think

1:00:22

that it's something that is you know

1:00:25

Mostly associated with men but happens

1:00:27

with nerds of all genders

1:00:31

Where it's like Maybe we

1:00:33

don't know how to express our emotions. Well,

1:00:35

so we do it by forcing our stuff

1:00:38

on other people and To

1:00:41

just like I don't know to be forced to like sit

1:00:43

in some of this. I Don't

1:00:45

know. Maybe I'm coming around like you the movie a little bit more in

1:00:47

red This is about my birthday

1:00:50

when I made you listen to that Japanese song. I

1:00:53

loved that song by the way Yeah, okay. Yeah,

1:00:55

you know It

1:00:58

was really good. Yeah, anyway, uh,

1:01:00

anyway, we'll keep talking about this we should get through the rest of the

1:01:03

movie so Margot

1:01:06

He gets a text she gets a text from him

1:01:08

saying I saw you at the bar. You're really pretty

1:01:10

I miss you and she's instantly kind of paralyzed and

1:01:12

she and Taylor watch in horror as Robert keeps texting

1:01:14

saying I don't know what I did wrong. I really

1:01:17

think you should tell me what I did wrong I

1:01:19

don't understand was that guy you were with your boyfriend.

1:01:21

Are you having sex with him right now? Is that

1:01:23

what's going on? And then finally just says whore at

1:01:25

the end and this is where the original short story

1:01:27

ends You know and it's a it's a and

1:01:30

it's rough like it's a powerful end to that story But

1:01:33

the movie keeps going and Margot now is

1:01:35

very worried that at any moment Robert might

1:01:38

Come up to her might surprise her

1:01:40

might be following her She sees him getting

1:01:42

into his car outside of the theater and

1:01:44

reports this to a cop played by Liza

1:01:46

cologne's is from the bear and I was

1:01:48

like you should be in the kitchen. What

1:01:50

are you doing? That's your place? You're succeeding

1:01:53

there. You're excelling and she's

1:01:55

like he didn't break any laws. I can't do anything about this

1:02:00

I think it was like a weird, I mean,

1:02:02

it was clearly intentional, but like,

1:02:04

I was like, I

1:02:07

could believe this a lot more if it was like a

1:02:09

male cop when they chose to make it a female

1:02:12

cop, but maybe they didn't want to make it cliche

1:02:14

by making it that male cop. I think that there

1:02:16

was, I think maybe there's something there about, I think you're

1:02:18

right, they didn't want to be cliche or too obvious and there's

1:02:20

something there about maybe her having internalized

1:02:22

the things that people say, I don't know.

1:02:24

Or just a cop message of like, don't

1:02:27

think that just because a cop is like

1:02:29

you in some way that they're your ally.

1:02:31

I know there's a lot going on there,

1:02:33

I guess. Yeah,

1:02:35

to me it was sort of this idea of

1:02:37

like, yeah, you would think that this

1:02:40

cop would be more sympathetic,

1:02:43

but she has sort

1:02:45

of just been like jaded

1:02:47

by being a police officer and it's like

1:02:49

kind of taken this line of like, whatever

1:02:52

is the least resistance for me

1:02:55

as a public servant. But

1:02:57

the other thing is when the movie is

1:02:59

working well, and in this scene it's a

1:03:01

little, it's sometimes working well, sometimes not. When

1:03:03

the movie is working well, it is riding

1:03:06

the line of neither

1:03:08

one of these characters is a villainous

1:03:10

character. When she says he hasn't broken

1:03:12

the law, it's true, he has not broken the law. This

1:03:15

is, he's an awkward, kind of weird,

1:03:17

kind of a little creepy guy and he

1:03:20

was not pleasant to be around and she found that

1:03:23

out. She didn't treat him well and he has

1:03:25

not done anything. And so the, in

1:03:29

these moments I feel like the movie is doing

1:03:31

the job of balancing that thing of like, which the short

1:03:33

story again does very well, where it's like neither of these

1:03:35

people, it is not a hero and villain story. It's

1:03:39

not an unblemished victim and predator

1:03:41

story. It is two people who are constantly

1:03:44

making mistakes in the way that they handle

1:03:46

this situation. And so there

1:03:48

was, I wonder if that was part of it too. It's just that trying

1:03:51

to get, continue that theme of like, he hasn't broken

1:03:53

any laws. Like there's nothing that he's done that you

1:03:55

can go to the police. Yeah. He

1:03:57

was a bad date and she saw him getting out of his

1:03:59

car once. But he didn't he hasn't talked to

1:04:01

her since then you know aside from these being

1:04:03

mean on texts You know so it's the

1:04:06

I feel like the more I talked about this movie the more I like

1:04:08

it But it's more because I like what the

1:04:10

movie is trying to do then I think necessarily

1:04:12

Yeah, that it achieves it. Yeah, I think the

1:04:14

aim of this movie is so good And it's

1:04:17

it's like it doesn't quite hit the bullseye

1:04:19

and said it's in that like third circle But

1:04:24

the I mean it's I don't know I don't know dark

1:04:26

for archery or whatever I don't know what that's called, but

1:04:29

uh Taylor and Marco. They're like we need to defend ourselves

1:04:34

Taylor goes Margie needs to defend yourself they go to this this

1:04:37

self-defense store and they buy a ton of mace

1:04:39

and a tracking device and To

1:04:41

in theory put on his car so they can always know

1:04:43

where he is In

1:04:47

a self-defense place is very funny. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:04:50

I love how the guys like Immediately

1:04:52

like I could see why too beautiful

1:04:55

ladies like you might be worried about that and she's

1:04:57

like we are not gonna be doing He

1:05:03

has a name tag on so she's instantly referring to him by

1:05:05

his first name or something is very funny I mean he

1:05:07

goes two words Smith and Wesson That

1:05:10

one there's a lot there was some good jokes in that

1:05:12

scene Just

1:05:14

you know he's just a guy who's trying to work

1:05:16

a job on his ends. He's like. I

1:05:18

don't know what do you want? Yeah,

1:05:21

everyone has clear wants and that seems funny Yeah And

1:05:23

that the two of the friends to the guy friends

1:05:26

burst into the room to invite them to a costume

1:05:28

party And that makes them

1:05:30

mad because they're already keyed up. You know they're

1:05:32

already paranoid and That turns

1:05:34

into an argument between Taylor and Margot and

1:05:36

Taylor ends up storming out where they kind of

1:05:39

indict each other's personalities to a certain extent that

1:05:41

night Margot does One

1:05:47

at being highly constantly

1:05:50

Skeptical of men and one as being

1:05:53

too trusting of men So that's that one who's

1:05:55

too trusting and one who's so skeptical that she

1:05:57

hides behind the internet according to Margot

1:06:00

That and I feel like this is when the

1:06:02

movie takes its turn where it's like the filmmakers

1:06:04

kind of weren't quite sure what to do with

1:06:06

it. And so they go for the

1:06:09

path of like what a movie

1:06:11

is supposed to do because Margo sneaks into Robert's

1:06:13

garage to put a tracking device on his car,

1:06:15

which is an extreme action for a character to

1:06:17

take. But maybe, you know, this character's been pushed

1:06:19

to it. There's a dog in the garage. It's

1:06:22

the dog she saw earlier in the movie. And

1:06:25

Robert hears the dog growling and comes out, and it

1:06:27

leads to they get into a kind

1:06:30

of semi not quite fight. And Margo accidentally maces herself

1:06:32

and falls and hits her head. And

1:06:34

she wakes up in Robert's house, and he's

1:06:36

very angry. He's like, if you walk

1:06:38

out of here like this, everyone's going to think I

1:06:40

did this to you. And then he starts going through

1:06:42

their texts to prove that she misled him and led

1:06:44

him on or was into him or he's just he's

1:06:46

angry. He's going through their texts. And

1:06:49

I've never been this guy, but I know guys do this kind of thing where

1:06:51

they're like, you need to give me a reason. Look at these things. You said.

1:06:54

Meanwhile, Taylor is like, but I also think he's scared. I

1:06:57

also think he's scared. I think he's not just angry. No,

1:06:59

no, I think he's scared that

1:07:01

like, sorry, go

1:07:03

ahead. Well, looking at it from his point of view,

1:07:05

which I don't which when the movie is working well, I think you

1:07:07

can do. This is a woman that he went out with once. She

1:07:11

does. She ghosted him. He doesn't

1:07:13

know why. Then she showed up

1:07:15

in his garage and trying to

1:07:17

plant something on his car and now

1:07:19

makes herself and has a head injury.

1:07:23

Yes. Seems to be trying to entrap him in

1:07:25

some sort of thing. So from his point of view, it's like

1:07:27

what is going on here? You know, what am I going to

1:07:29

do? And this is what I was trying to get at earlier

1:07:31

where it's like the

1:07:34

movie in extending the

1:07:37

film beyond the natural end point of the

1:07:40

story is still trying

1:07:42

to kind of keep up this ambiguity

1:07:44

where it's like, yeah,

1:07:46

like you understand why she is

1:07:48

terrified and she is more maybe.

1:07:51

Historical like definitely historical reason to

1:07:53

be terrified and he is like

1:07:56

yelling, but also

1:07:58

she broke into his. and

1:08:01

like did something that would look very bad

1:08:03

for him. And so the movie has turned

1:08:05

into this weird kind of like the

1:08:07

end of war of the roses thing where

1:08:09

it's more about like, I don't

1:08:12

know, like how the mistrust

1:08:15

between the heterosexual,

1:08:18

fist gendered sexes is going to like tear

1:08:20

everyone apart than it is kind of

1:08:22

saying something more like grounded and real

1:08:24

at that point. I don't know. Like

1:08:27

it's, it's, I don't know how I feel

1:08:29

about it. I like, I'm kind of like impressed

1:08:32

that the movie like took like a ballsy

1:08:34

turn in adaptation, but it has

1:08:37

gone so far away

1:08:39

at this point too, that it is,

1:08:41

I don't know, something to see. I

1:08:45

don't know. How do you feel about it? I mean, well,

1:08:48

we're not, I don't want to

1:08:50

jump ahead, but I agree and I want to come back

1:08:52

to that. Okay. Elliot, go. Okay.

1:08:55

I mean, we could talk about it now, but

1:08:57

so meanwhile, Taylor, she walks into Margot's room. She's

1:08:59

not there. She goes, oh my God. She knows

1:09:01

what she's doing. She jumps in a Lyft car.

1:09:03

We know because of dialogue earlier that she knows,

1:09:05

but the driver of the Lyft car doesn't know

1:09:07

that the driver of the Lyft car is the

1:09:09

online moderator that she was mad at earlier, but

1:09:11

she just goes, we got to find her. And

1:09:13

then opened a new and then when she

1:09:15

was kicked out by her open to men's

1:09:17

feminist, you know, he wants to be an

1:09:20

ally and she doesn't really understand.

1:09:22

She doesn't, she's rightfully

1:09:25

suspicious. Yeah. Weird. And

1:09:29

Robert admits this is this was the moment that seemed that

1:09:31

if the each of these characters has a moment that where

1:09:33

I'm like movie, I think this is

1:09:35

not necessarily helping you with Margot. It is

1:09:38

for me and for Margot. It is when she decides

1:09:40

to put a tracking device on his car, which

1:09:42

seems like a big jump and for Robert. It's the moment

1:09:44

where he admits. Yeah. Okay. So

1:09:47

that was my dog. I was following you

1:09:49

so that we could bump into each other and meet

1:09:51

at some point and I could ask you out. Is

1:09:53

that so wrong? And that's something where I'm like, that's

1:09:56

not a like that. He's like, and if we got

1:09:58

married, this would be the story that would be told at our. It

1:10:00

would be adorable and romantic and it's like that

1:10:02

is a I don't know Maybe it's just because I'm not

1:10:04

the kind of guy who like call those

1:10:06

haunts places, right? Where there's a woman I know so that

1:10:08

I can pretend to be meeting her

1:10:10

which is the kind of thing that happens in

1:10:12

movies all the time, but like has the Gucci

1:10:14

for instance, but uh the but it's definitely like

1:10:16

a It's a moment when

1:10:19

the character stops being an ambiguously Creepish

1:10:22

character to me and becomes like a little more overtly

1:10:25

creepy And

1:10:27

he goes you I'm and he's yelling at her

1:10:29

and She's like can you

1:10:31

just help me get water for my eyes because the

1:10:33

mace and he goes you need saline solution She goes

1:10:35

oh, you know that because you've been in this situation for

1:10:37

it and he goes I'm a nurse That's how I

1:10:39

know that and while he's going to get saline solution.

1:10:41

She starts calling 911 This

1:10:45

is one of the most important moments I'm

1:10:47

a nurse You would have

1:10:49

known that you would have known that if you

1:10:52

ever asked me And I

1:10:54

thought that that was like a

1:10:56

very illuminating moment. Oh, yeah So

1:10:58

it's both caught up in their

1:11:00

own fantasies and as much as

1:11:02

she's made him central to his

1:11:04

fantasy to her fantasy He's

1:11:07

been made like the main character in her fantasy

1:11:10

and she feels like she constantly But

1:11:12

she has not actually like

1:11:14

engaged getting to know this person

1:11:17

Yeah earlier earlier She imagines his

1:11:19

therapy session where he's talking about her like

1:11:21

we mentioned and the way his therapist office

1:11:24

looks the way he's talking about it Is

1:11:26

so it's so not realistic, you know not

1:11:28

not realistic to his life Yes,

1:11:34

no, I did I did notice that

1:11:36

I'm like I love the fact that

1:11:38

her fantasy version of him is you

1:11:40

know Like I know Chris

1:11:42

Evans and knives out sort of styled

1:11:44

You know guy But

1:11:47

I do think that that was like, I

1:11:50

don't think it's like in guiding of her But it's

1:11:52

like it's very easy to

1:11:54

lose sight of the reality that like,

1:11:56

okay, if we're talking about the away like

1:11:59

a Woody Allen movie. She's

1:12:02

20, he's 33. Basically all

1:12:04

Woody Allen movies. Oh, that

1:12:06

aspect of like, real

1:12:08

life is like a Woody Allen movie. I was like, son of

1:12:10

a big right, the younger man, younger woman, older guy is all

1:12:12

of them. Today we're both like, like

1:12:14

on equal, equal

1:12:17

maturity should be expected of both of us.

1:12:21

They shouldn't because they're

1:12:24

completely different ages. But I did think

1:12:26

that like, I don't know, that's why

1:12:28

I just wanted to pass because

1:12:30

that moment strikes me as like, oh

1:12:33

yeah, like they're making a point that she.

1:12:36

Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting

1:12:38

in the way it shows

1:12:40

how they're both constructing a fantasy version

1:12:42

of the other person. Yeah. Yeah. And

1:12:44

they're both oblivious to the real

1:12:46

that they're not even interested in exploring the

1:12:49

real person. You know, that

1:12:51

being said, it's a very good point that

1:12:53

then leads to them fighting over the phone until eventually

1:12:56

he is strangling her and she's hitting him in the

1:12:58

heads of bottles. They knock over a heater in the

1:13:00

basement. So how would you wouldn't happen if he

1:13:02

didn't leave so many empty bottles around the

1:13:04

house because he didn't clean up or

1:13:07

plugged in heaters, you know, the

1:13:09

house catches on fire. They're trapped

1:13:11

in the basement. He climbs into a basement drain.

1:13:14

Which happens to be a real cat. He

1:13:16

did have cats. He did have cats.

1:13:18

I was worried. Did the cats get away? I was

1:13:20

worried about the cats. But the

1:13:26

cats were being kept warm by

1:13:28

the heater, I think. That's

1:13:30

why they were downstairs. That

1:13:33

seems to be a bad. I didn't notice that part of it. Well,

1:13:36

that's when she opened the door, the

1:13:38

cat ran out. They ran out. Okay. So

1:13:41

look, I just want those fictional

1:13:44

cats to be alright, Halle. That's my main

1:13:46

concern at this point in the movie. The

1:13:48

house catches on fire. Eventually she does.

1:13:50

She's reluctant to follow him into this

1:13:53

basement drain. But eventually she does the

1:13:55

next morning. Then Taylor

1:13:57

and her driver arrive as the fire trucks get there. and

1:14:00

they sit through the night, the next morning they're still

1:14:02

there sitting on the curb, she reveals to him who

1:14:04

she is, and he's like, oh,

1:14:06

nice to meet you. You know, there's a tentative

1:14:09

reproach mall between these two fighting

1:14:11

moderators at once they've met in person. You

1:14:14

never fought with her. You never fought with her.

1:14:17

No, that's true. He was pushed out for

1:14:19

assuming a fake identity. And

1:14:22

the firefighters find Robert and Margot, passed out in

1:14:24

the drain, but alive. Days

1:14:26

later, Margot and Tyler ride their

1:14:28

bicycles by the lot where Robert's house is.

1:14:30

And I couldn't tell if this was having

1:14:32

gone to college in New York City where people do

1:14:35

not mostly ride bicycles around, unless

1:14:37

it's like a city bike, which didn't, was not

1:14:39

a part of the city at the time I

1:14:41

was going to school. I couldn't tell if them

1:14:43

riding bikes over by his house was a realistic

1:14:45

thing because they probably wouldn't have their own car

1:14:47

at that point. Or if it was an unrealistic

1:14:49

thing that was helpful in making them seem younger,

1:14:51

because there is a very kind of like ET

1:14:54

quality to two young people riding a bike in

1:14:56

a suburb. So I will say I'm

1:14:58

actually, I feel like I'm, I

1:15:00

don't know if I'm like implanting memories,

1:15:03

but this whole layout of this

1:15:05

movie having,

1:15:08

so I was

1:15:11

an undergraduate at Yale

1:15:13

and this whole physical

1:15:15

setup is exactly like

1:15:17

New Haven. And I'm

1:15:19

wondering, it's not supposed to, I think it's supposed

1:15:21

to be like New Haven. It's

1:15:23

supposed to be somewhere else, but they shot at New Jersey as

1:15:26

well. But it looked, I'm curious

1:15:28

to know if like, because

1:15:31

like, that projector was on

1:15:33

the same, the way

1:15:35

that they like landed up on the street

1:15:37

was like where our, like the old movie

1:15:39

theater was in. Or maybe

1:15:41

I'm just like putting myself into the solution. All

1:15:45

I did was like, I had a like a

1:15:47

cruiser bike that I rode around New Haven my

1:15:49

whole time there. And then there were like tassels

1:15:51

on the, on the handlebars and everything. Not tassels,

1:15:53

but everything else. It was like, I had a

1:15:55

basket on. E.T.

1:16:00

ever sit in it? No. Oh.

1:16:03

That I know of. Even

1:16:05

his house that we're done like, no.

1:16:13

The spaceship dance.

1:16:15

Looks very much

1:16:17

like a New Haven block like of the

1:16:19

houses and like the, so I

1:16:21

was wondering if like, oh I wonder

1:16:24

if like anyone who was making this

1:16:26

was thinking about that or. It's possible. I mean

1:16:28

if it's going to be a professor at a college, it's going

1:16:30

to be one of the best. You

1:16:33

know. I don't think

1:16:35

it is unrealistic because. For

1:16:37

them to be on bikes. All right. It's outside

1:16:39

my experience. Like most of the movie, which is

1:16:41

very much my experience with the older men that

1:16:43

I dated. So the, they go by, they go

1:16:46

by the lot where Robert's house used to

1:16:48

be and they're like, yeah, his co-worker city

1:16:50

moved away, but he might have

1:16:52

just told them to say that the girls still

1:16:54

suspicious and later at work, another nerdy

1:16:56

creep hits on Margo, similar

1:16:58

to the way Robert did and tells him, tells

1:17:01

her to give him his number, her number and

1:17:03

the camera. She has this look on her face.

1:17:05

That's just like, here we go again. Cut the

1:17:07

credits. He was in, he was in

1:17:10

Madman, right? That guy, that actor.

1:17:12

He might've been, he seemed really familiar.

1:17:14

I didn't recognize him. I think you

1:17:16

might be right. I think he was

1:17:19

like the young advertiser who remember

1:17:21

like John stole his thing. And so

1:17:24

he's like, you have to hire him.

1:17:27

He's like the, the, he

1:17:30

was sort of like a Nepo, a

1:17:32

Nepo baby and whatever.

1:17:35

We'll talk about it. I don't know. I mean, you know,

1:17:37

he looked like. Sorry, I

1:17:39

have to instant Madmen's recall. Yeah.

1:17:42

I am, M R. It's cool. Yeah.

1:17:48

Yeah. Yeah. That's the end

1:17:52

of the movie. And now we're

1:17:54

left to puzzle out the,

1:17:56

you know, like what's going to happen next. Lucy

1:17:58

learned from her mistake and not give her

1:18:00

number to this guy who calls her

1:18:02

a girl who's never seen the apartment

1:18:04

or will or will they get back

1:18:06

together? Halle

1:18:09

is such a hopeless romantic. The listener can't

1:18:11

see that Halle had double-crossed fingers on that

1:18:13

one. She's so hoping for it. Well, in

1:18:15

honest life, I had this like my

1:18:18

babysitter when I was young used to

1:18:20

make me watch Young in the Rustlers

1:18:22

all the time. I

1:18:25

think this is Young in the Rustlers where there was

1:18:28

like a it was

1:18:33

Marty and Todd. Todd had

1:18:35

raped Marty. They

1:18:37

were going through the rape trial and

1:18:39

then during the rape trial,

1:18:42

Marty and Todd fell in

1:18:44

love as like the defendant

1:18:47

and the plaintiff. And the plaintiff. Yeah. So

1:18:50

I was like, is this Marty and Todd? Should

1:18:52

they be together? You're canceled the

1:18:54

Young in the Rustlers. You're

1:18:58

canceled the Young in the Rustlers

1:19:00

probably for real. I don't know.

1:19:02

Literally. Yeah. The daytime

1:19:04

soap world has been shattered. But yeah.

1:19:07

So wow. What

1:19:10

a roller coaster. What a

1:19:12

roller coaster. What a roller coaster. I'm

1:19:14

so glad we chose this movie. I'm

1:19:17

so glad we chose this movie.

1:19:20

It's funny. Yeah. Yeah.

1:19:23

I got to say I sent Hallie

1:19:25

a list of possibles and

1:19:27

Hallie responded in the way that you know

1:19:29

that Hallie's like really into like it's just

1:19:31

all caps. Cat person exclamation

1:19:34

point. And

1:19:37

it was a lot to chew on. Like

1:19:40

a cat. We should. Yep.

1:19:43

Very chewy cats are. Let's

1:19:46

do our final judgments. Whether this

1:19:48

is a good bad movie bad bad movie or movie kind of like

1:19:50

I have to say right off

1:19:53

the bat I'm not sure I can fit

1:19:55

it into our arbitrary. We've

1:19:57

had a lot of those lately. I know. Here's

1:20:00

the thing. I.

1:20:04

I. Don't. Know that like

1:20:06

I don't know is totally successful for

1:20:08

me, but I also don't know to

1:20:10

what degree that is. Because.

1:20:14

It. Really defied my.

1:20:17

Expectations of what an adaptation of

1:20:19

this story would be and I

1:20:21

I knew that it was gonna

1:20:23

go into some weird directions in

1:20:25

the third act. When. I

1:20:27

didn't know was. That. It would

1:20:29

still be sort of trying to like

1:20:31

pump up some of the ambiguity in

1:20:33

the third act like I had heard

1:20:36

like oh, you know he becomes a

1:20:38

killer and letter that light Yeah, that's

1:20:40

what I appreciated that it didn't Yes,

1:20:42

yes, know if it's still. Either

1:20:45

know, he found a way even as it

1:20:47

got. Sort. Of is. Absurdly

1:20:50

Heightened is found a way to.

1:20:53

Try and. Read. A

1:20:55

certain needle. I'm. Like.

1:20:58

The cylinders women's worked an

1:21:00

unacceptable This with this woman's

1:21:02

worth. Anyway,

1:21:05

I don't I. What am I saying? I don't know.

1:21:07

I am saying that. I think that. I

1:21:10

don't know if it's solely successful, but

1:21:12

if you're interested in this. League.

1:21:15

Clearly. Made

1:21:17

us have of. Crazy.

1:21:19

Conversation where multiple times and like am

1:21:21

I an asshole right? Malik I you

1:21:23

know and that's valuable so if you're

1:21:25

interested in my can discourage you from

1:21:28

seeing it. That's kind of where I

1:21:30

man that's that's and at in my

1:21:32

judgment on this. Helena, What

1:21:34

he has have to say. I mean,

1:21:36

I feel like I've. Seen

1:21:40

all. Know

1:21:42

this isn't. A. Good

1:21:44

movie. And I don't. Like

1:21:52

is a map will be like I wasn't. For.

1:21:54

And I'll have my decision. Really. Liked

1:21:57

Oh I'm so glad there. He.

1:22:00

Does it is a movie that like

1:22:03

talked about certainly things and. I'm.

1:22:06

Surfing. Get. Out

1:22:09

know. Exactly. How you guys

1:22:11

define your parameters That I would say. Good

1:22:13

that. In either do we

1:22:15

say it is worth watching is

1:22:18

interesting. Yes, I

1:22:20

I. I think it doesn't

1:22:22

fit into any of our categories. I feel

1:22:24

like it is not as successful as I

1:22:26

would like to be. Other thing movie the

1:22:28

main actress is carried it. So. That

1:22:30

than other readers. Finally to

1:22:32

that Oh. Wow

1:22:35

sir. Why? I don't know why he

1:22:37

says I'm being raised to. Say. That

1:22:39

has. As long as I think this, I

1:22:41

think it's a movie that is not. It's

1:22:44

not fully successful. I think it's somewhat. Successful

1:22:46

and it's yeah I think in some way this with

1:22:48

seen just for the things it's doing and it's trying

1:22:50

to do and I wish that it was like. I

1:22:54

know as as I wish it was like. A

1:22:56

little more. Consistent

1:23:00

what it's doing so with. Didn't have quite so

1:23:02

many needle drop songs and I need some was

1:23:04

music and anyone and a happy ending with a

1:23:06

super easy kids getting. Yeah, I didn't realize we

1:23:09

the minute you thought this but I thought this

1:23:11

all that. I also I think that the I

1:23:13

was. It's one of those movies

1:23:15

where I told his eye to eye both.

1:23:17

Admire them for taking the story to a

1:23:19

place where it gets. It's

1:23:22

extreme but the characters are still distillate. One

1:23:24

character whose it out now. villain in one

1:23:26

has no no hero that Atherton wish that

1:23:29

it didn't and in a place where they

1:23:31

were in his basement trying to escape from

1:23:33

a burning house even though I know that

1:23:35

has been. the metaphor is you know that

1:23:37

if we if we can't come together as

1:23:40

to or and as an a multiple sides

1:23:42

and relationships then you know a world will

1:23:44

fall apart around us. We have to understand

1:23:46

we're doing. but I also have since. I

1:23:49

just wish I just wish it was I'm

1:23:51

I think. Wasn't bad my which was all better than a

1:23:53

was. But you also seems that.

1:23:56

Like that in a swim

1:23:58

may have been. like,

1:24:00

um, drains and the, they're sort

1:24:02

of like curbs around each

1:24:04

other was supposed to be

1:24:07

some reference to like the

1:24:09

archaeology stuff of it's

1:24:11

like kind of like a Pompeii situation

1:24:14

of how they're like wrapped around each

1:24:16

other. Hey, what I really wish is

1:24:18

I wish that they were in a yin-yang formation. I mean,

1:24:20

they weren't. Oh, were they? I mean, they, I don't think

1:24:22

they were like heads of the, you know, I mean, they

1:24:25

weren't in like a 69. That's not

1:24:27

what I'm talking about. No,

1:24:29

I mean, Ellie, that was the first thing

1:24:32

that I thought of too. So I guess

1:24:34

I'm just a little more enlightened than you

1:24:36

guys or not sexy enough.

1:24:39

Yeah. Can you work on

1:24:41

your sexiness? Can

1:24:43

you bring your sexiness up for the podcast

1:24:45

a little bit? But it's definitely a movie

1:24:48

that it like it's a conversation starter movie, which is

1:24:50

okay. It all needs to be. Can I, can

1:24:52

I ask you guys, did you ever feel

1:24:54

bored during this movie? Well,

1:24:56

that's the thing. It's two hours,

1:24:58

which I think is too long for a

1:25:00

movie, but I was not bored

1:25:03

by it. No, I couldn't tell if I

1:25:05

was just like, Oh God, I just like

1:25:07

get an excuse to not see around

1:25:09

my children or like not pay attention

1:25:11

anything that happens. And so, but I

1:25:13

was like, yeah, I definitely like wasn't,

1:25:16

I didn't feel like it was a two hour movie. No,

1:25:19

I agree. I thought it was two hours. I think it's a

1:25:21

little, it could have stuff come from it, cut from it, but

1:25:23

there was no parts where I was like, Oh,

1:25:26

come on. Like, it feels like it moves relatively

1:25:28

quickly. You know, so I think

1:25:30

that's very successful about it. Yeah, it's not, it was not one of

1:25:32

these movies where I was like, all

1:25:35

right, already, like just get

1:25:37

a room. Oh no, you did get a room.

1:25:39

Oh, it's pretty awkward. Just get out of a

1:25:41

room already. Like, come on. Just burn down this

1:25:43

room. All right. Speaking

1:25:47

of burning down rooms,

1:25:51

capitalism, we got a, we

1:25:53

got a Hawks and products here. And

1:25:57

that means moving on to sponsors

1:26:01

for the flophouse. We're grateful for

1:26:03

them. We love them. We hope you

1:26:05

love them too. You gotta say, Hey,

1:26:08

there's some products that we want to

1:26:11

tell you about today. Products,

1:26:13

products, products for you, things you can

1:26:15

buy and things you can tell people

1:26:17

that you liked enough that they should

1:26:19

buy them to their products for you

1:26:22

with Dan McCoy as Dan. Thank

1:26:24

you. If I asked you how many subscriptions

1:26:27

you have, would you be able to list

1:26:29

all of them and how much you're paying?

1:26:31

I know the New Yorker. That's one. Would

1:26:33

you? The amount you're spending might surprise

1:26:35

you. Rocket Money can help

1:26:38

and help cancel unused

1:26:40

subscriptions. It's a

1:26:42

personal finance app that finds and

1:26:44

cancels your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your

1:26:46

spending and helps lower your bills.

1:26:48

They'll even try to get you

1:26:50

a refund for the last couple

1:26:52

of months of wasted money and

1:26:54

negotiate to lower your bills by

1:26:56

up to 20%. Just take a

1:26:59

picture of your bill and Rocket Money

1:27:01

takes care of the rest. Rocket

1:27:03

Money has over 5 million users and has

1:27:05

helped save its members an average of $720

1:27:07

a year with over 500 million in canceled subscriptions. So

1:27:15

cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going

1:27:17

to rocketmoney.com slash

1:27:20

flop that is

1:27:22

rocketmoney.com/flop rocketmoney.com

1:27:27

slash flop also

1:27:30

sponsoring the show. Wow, you did such

1:27:32

a good job of not leaving a space

1:27:34

for me to butt in and say,

1:27:36

Rocket Money, saving you money. I'm Rocket

1:27:38

Money because I'm a Rocket Money. Dan, you

1:27:41

didn't even let me have time to do it. You went straight

1:27:43

to the next ad. I appreciate that. And

1:27:46

the next ad is for Squarespace, the

1:27:48

all in one platform for building your

1:27:51

brand and growing your business online. Stand

1:27:53

out with a beautiful website, engage with

1:27:55

your audience and sell anything, your

1:27:57

products, content you create. even

1:28:00

your time. You can gain powerful

1:28:02

insights into who is visiting your

1:28:05

site and how they're interacting with

1:28:07

your content with our in-depth website

1:28:09

analytics tools, including page

1:28:11

views, most red content,

1:28:14

audience geography, and more. And

1:28:16

if you're looking to get a business

1:28:18

off the ground, Squarespace can help with e-commerce

1:28:21

templates, inventory management, a

1:28:23

simple checkout process, and secure

1:28:25

payments. And with FluidEngine,

1:28:29

their next generation website design

1:28:31

system, you can start with

1:28:33

a best-in-class website template and

1:28:36

customize every detail with reimagined

1:28:38

drag and drop technology for

1:28:40

desktop technology. Drag and drop

1:28:42

technology for desktop or mobile,

1:28:44

head to squarespace.com/plop for free

1:28:53

trial. And when you are ready

1:28:55

to launch, use offer code FLOP

1:28:57

that is F-L-O-P to save 10%

1:29:00

off your first purchase of a

1:29:02

website or domain. Dan, you know

1:29:05

what else that Flophouse is sponsored by?

1:29:07

Tell me. Flophouse is sponsored by the

1:29:09

Flophouse. How's that possible? Well, because

1:29:11

I'm here to tell you we've got some

1:29:13

live shows coming up, one in a place

1:29:15

that's very familiar to us and very dear

1:29:18

to our hearts, and one in a very

1:29:20

new place that we're very excited about on

1:29:22

March 31st. That's right. Easter Sunday.

1:29:24

We're going to be performing at The Bell House in

1:29:26

Brooklyn, our old stomping grounds. We love to be there.

1:29:28

They're a great place to put on a show and

1:29:31

they're just a fun, comfortable place to see a show.

1:29:34

You don't want to spend Easter with your family. I don't want

1:29:36

to either. It's not even my religion. Go to the Bell House

1:29:38

instead at 7 30 p.m. We'll be

1:29:40

doing a show there. Dan, can I announce what

1:29:42

movie we're doing? Yeah, you know what? Let's let's

1:29:44

do it. You know, let's have a little fun.

1:29:46

Okay, we're gonna be just we're gonna be watching.

1:29:49

Oh, right. I just saw

1:29:51

the name of the movie. We're gonna be watching The

1:29:53

Garbage Pail Kids. Well, not what we're gonna be talking

1:29:55

about. We're not watching The Garbage Pail Kids movie at

1:29:57

the show. Yeah, if you're confused, if you follow the

1:29:59

Twitter... page I may have said something about

1:30:01

Superman Returns you know what we had to change them

1:30:03

up we gonna do garbage pale kids

1:30:05

for a good reason I don't

1:30:08

know whether we're announcing that reason but it'll

1:30:10

be fun it'll be exciting surprise we may

1:30:12

have maybe we'll announce it in the future

1:30:14

if we'll have to yeah we have to

1:30:17

get permission believe we may have a guest

1:30:19

who wants to do the garbage pale kids movie

1:30:21

so you will like

1:30:23

it's a guest you'll like a lot it's a guest

1:30:26

that uh and Dan

1:30:28

feel free to tell Alex to cut this out if

1:30:31

it's if it's too much it's a guest who we

1:30:33

gave a blank check to on what movie

1:30:35

we would talk about at the show see if

1:30:37

you can noodle that clue so

1:30:39

that's March 31st Easter Sunday at the

1:30:41

Bell House gonna be very exciting but

1:30:44

we also in May are doing two

1:30:46

shows in one night in merry old

1:30:48

England that's right we're gonna be an Oxford England

1:30:50

two shows at the Oxford Town Hall as part

1:30:52

of the st. audio podcast festival we're so excited

1:30:54

about this we want to do a show in

1:30:56

England for a very long time and Oxford's

1:30:59

a beautiful town you know it's a beautiful city

1:31:01

it's a beautiful venue we're doing two shows the

1:31:04

7 p.m. show the early show we're

1:31:06

talking about the Avengers not the Avengers

1:31:08

that's the good one with the Marvel

1:31:11

superheroes know the Avengers with Uma Thurman

1:31:13

and Ray Fines that is the Hollywood

1:31:15

version of the British television show the

1:31:17

Avengers and at 9

1:31:19

p.m. we're gonna be talking about the most

1:31:21

important movie in British cinema history Spice World

1:31:23

that's right the only Spice Girls movie up

1:31:26

to this point maybe there'll be another one

1:31:28

you know they could

1:31:30

do another one they could do also

1:31:32

with us you know yeah for another

1:31:35

movie so March 31st at

1:31:37

the Bell House garbage bell kids May

1:31:39

24th in Oxford we're doing the Avengers

1:31:42

and Spice Girls two separate shows for

1:31:44

ticket links and more information go to

1:31:46

flophousepodcast.com events

1:31:50

and I just want to remind

1:31:52

folks max fun drive is

1:31:54

coming up this is what funds

1:31:58

this show that you enjoy I

1:32:00

hope still after all these years,

1:32:02

uh, it is, um, it has

1:32:05

honestly, as, as television has,

1:32:08

you know, uh, vaporized as

1:32:11

a previously lucrative career.

1:32:13

Don't hold back, Dan, don't hold back. Yeah.

1:32:15

Flames, uh, podcasting has turned out

1:32:18

to be the wave of the

1:32:20

future. And, uh, for

1:32:22

us, so we would love your support during

1:32:24

max fund drive. And I just want to

1:32:26

do a quick mention of our max fund

1:32:29

bonus content. Uh, for

1:32:31

members who donate at the $5 level

1:32:33

or more, what's going to be available

1:32:35

for them on day one, it'll be

1:32:37

our spawn LA live show. We

1:32:40

are, uh, uh, putting it up as

1:32:42

our bonus content. You can hear us talk about

1:32:44

spawn. You can hear my heartfelt, uh,

1:32:46

farewell to the West coast tour at the end of

1:32:48

that show. And we're also going

1:32:51

to do a, uh, three episodes

1:32:53

series on the films of Graydon Clark,

1:32:55

we already talked uninvited with,

1:32:57

uh, Gillian Flynn, um,

1:33:00

on, on main, but we're going

1:33:02

to talk about some of his

1:33:04

other movies, joysticks, the forbidden

1:33:06

dance, one other that I can't

1:33:08

remember, but he's a Schlockmeister extraordinaire.

1:33:11

So we're going to do, you know, more Boco

1:33:13

than ever before. Stewart probably is

1:33:15

going to do some RPG stuff

1:33:17

at some point. Can't confirm that for sure,

1:33:19

but I know he always loves it. So,

1:33:22

uh, that'll be coming up with max

1:33:24

fund drive. If there's ever

1:33:26

a time to contribute to max fund for the bonus

1:33:28

content, this is it. We're going to be doing a

1:33:30

lot. And I'm looking for it as much as I'm

1:33:32

not looking forward to talking about garbage bill kids. I'm

1:33:34

still looking forward to talking about the character of King

1:33:36

Vidy at enjoy sticks. I'm looking forward to watching the

1:33:39

character again. He's an amazing, maybe the greatest character in

1:33:41

film. Uh, before we finish with

1:33:43

the promo section, I was, it's been a long

1:33:45

one. I wanted to mention, uh, I have my

1:33:47

Hercules comic book series from dynamite comics comes out

1:33:49

starting in April. My other podcast, the 99% invisible

1:33:52

breakdown, the power broker with Roman Mars is currently

1:33:54

out now look for, I guess, power broker and

1:33:56

my name, or go to the 99% visible feed,

1:33:58

because that's where. the episodes are.

1:34:01

Max Fun Drive 2024. Max

1:34:03

Fun Drive? What about it? It'll be the best

1:34:13

time for someone to support the podcasts they love. Oh

1:34:17

yeah, Drive Exclusive Gifts, special events,

1:34:19

and of course all the amazing

1:34:21

bonus content. So

1:34:24

what's on your mind? Check. It

1:34:28

starts March 18th and it's only two weeks long.

1:34:31

And? Check. Well,

1:34:34

what if they miss it? Well,

1:34:37

they should follow Max Fun on social

1:34:39

media or sign up for the

1:34:41

newsletter at maximumfun.org newsletter so

1:34:43

they don't miss it. Otherwise,

1:34:47

checkmate. Who

1:34:49

guests on Jordan Jesse go? I mean

1:34:51

we could just list Pat Nausewald, Kumail

1:34:53

Najiani, Maria Bamford, whatever. We couldn't remember

1:34:56

all of them so we

1:34:58

asked my kids. Famous

1:35:00

people? How famous? I

1:35:02

don't know, pretty famous. Really

1:35:08

tiny celebrities who would go on

1:35:10

this train wreck instead

1:35:12

of it like a big talk show. There's

1:35:16

just a bunch of people on your show. Jordan

1:35:25

Jesse Go, a comedy show for grownups.

1:35:28

Let us move on to letters

1:35:30

from listeners. Listeners like you. This

1:35:34

one, this first one, this

1:35:36

letter, I'm confused. This first letter.

1:35:38

Oh, familiar? Listers

1:35:42

like you. This letter is from

1:35:45

not you specifically, but

1:35:47

like you. This letter is

1:35:50

from Hanuman. Last

1:35:52

her first name withheld depending on which one is

1:35:55

unclear which one Hanuman

1:35:57

is. But Hanuman writes

1:36:00

As a mechanic, I find

1:36:03

the dead car trope poorly thought

1:36:05

out in most movies. The

1:36:07

lights are always on, brighter than any real

1:36:09

headlights. The door dinger is digging away, but

1:36:11

it never starts. So my question is, do

1:36:14

writers do real life research on the things

1:36:16

they're writing about? And

1:36:19

we've got three television

1:36:21

writers here. You can't take that away

1:36:23

from us. You cannot even...

1:36:26

The way I wrote TV. You

1:36:28

can't take that away from me. Yeah.

1:36:31

Even if we're not currently writing for television.

1:36:33

But who is? We cannot

1:36:35

deny that we have all three

1:36:37

written for television. So as three writers,

1:36:40

do we do research? Is this

1:36:43

a thing that we do? Question

1:36:45

mark? I mean, I have an answer for

1:36:47

this, but... Oh, okay. Hallie, do you do research when

1:36:49

you're writing? You do, right? You do a lot of research.

1:36:52

I mean... I mean, you led to Las

1:36:54

Vegas for an elderly beauty contest for

1:36:57

research, right? Yeah. So

1:36:59

I do do research.

1:37:02

And I often feel like

1:37:04

the research I do is

1:37:06

insufficient because, you

1:37:09

know, here we are. We

1:37:11

listen to podcasts where... So

1:37:15

I feel like when I was a little

1:37:17

bit younger and I

1:37:20

would listen to... I like had this like...

1:37:23

You know, I would listen to like culture podcasts. Occasionally,

1:37:27

when this whole

1:37:30

crew was writing for the Daily

1:37:32

Show, there would be times where... I've

1:37:34

heard of it. There would, you know, there

1:37:36

would be moments where like, it's John's last

1:37:39

show. It's Trevor's first show. It's Trevor's... And

1:37:42

it was like listening

1:37:45

to podcasts that I really

1:37:49

trust, respect,

1:37:53

opinions that I admire.

1:37:56

And then I would hear them talking about something

1:37:58

that like I knew... so deeply about and

1:38:01

I would be like, oh

1:38:03

you guys like have no idea

1:38:07

what the fuck you're talking about. And sometimes

1:38:09

it would be like, well I don't usually

1:38:11

watch late night but like I tuned in

1:38:13

for this episode and I would be so

1:38:15

angry. I would be like, well

1:38:19

then you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Also

1:38:23

thing, I understand

1:38:26

both feeling like I

1:38:29

am self-conscious when I write things

1:38:31

about like doing

1:38:33

research but that

1:38:35

gets continually magnified about like how

1:38:38

little you know. Like right now

1:38:40

I'm saying, I

1:38:43

was when people on podcasts

1:38:46

talk about late night, I was

1:38:48

like, you guys have no idea

1:38:50

what the fuck you're talking about

1:38:52

but the whole format of late

1:38:54

night or specifically daily show stuff

1:38:56

that we did was like, hey

1:38:58

guys, catch up with this like

1:39:01

presidential

1:39:03

situations that's melting down in Brazil

1:39:05

and then let's like have a

1:39:07

really strong opinion about it. And

1:39:10

so it was like, all

1:39:12

right, yeah, I will, I'll engage and

1:39:14

I care a lot and I'll read

1:39:16

all this stuff but also how

1:39:20

could I possibly know everything

1:39:23

that anyone who's newly cared about

1:39:25

that issue. I mean, I'm

1:39:27

sure anyone who did was listening to it and

1:39:29

being like, all right, well, there's like

1:39:32

a lot more nuance to this situation you guys

1:39:34

so you don't know what you're talking about. So

1:39:37

I would say, yeah,

1:39:40

I do do research and

1:39:42

I'm self-conscious about not doing research

1:39:45

but I think if it's something

1:39:47

that you really care about and

1:39:49

you, or maybe this

1:39:52

is the definition really good writing

1:39:55

when you watch

1:39:57

something and you don't feel alienated

1:39:59

there. because it's something you both care about

1:40:01

and don't feel like the people who wrote it

1:40:04

did not know what the fuck they were talking

1:40:06

about, then that's good writing. But I

1:40:08

also think, yes, I do a

1:40:10

lot of research. I care a lot. But

1:40:15

sometimes I wonder if it's the

1:40:18

thing you care about most, maybe.

1:40:23

You shouldn't be watching a TV show about

1:40:26

it. I think there's some truth

1:40:28

to that, because definitely I do research for things,

1:40:31

but there come so many times when you're writing

1:40:33

something and you're like, I know

1:40:35

from my research this is not the way that

1:40:37

it would work, but the story

1:40:39

is what's important here and not getting these facts exactly

1:40:41

right. The same way I got so mad watching Mank,

1:40:43

there's so many times where there are things where I'm

1:40:46

like, well, they can't be talking about the Wolfman, that

1:40:48

movie didn't come out yet. But then I'm like, nobody

1:40:51

cares about this but me, really. And it gets

1:40:53

in the way of... The story wins. When

1:40:55

it's between facts and the story, often it's the

1:40:57

story that wins. Why can't I... Literally,

1:41:00

nobody remembers Studio 60 on

1:41:02

the Sunset Strip. Other

1:41:05

than comedy writers. Everyone that I

1:41:07

talk to every day, it literally

1:41:09

is a reference point every

1:41:11

second of the day that I...

1:41:14

So it's just like, when it's

1:41:16

your thing, yeah, nobody

1:41:21

knows how to recreate it. No,

1:41:23

that's why I wanted to agree with Halley on

1:41:26

the point of... Yeah, if you

1:41:28

are intimately familiar with the thing, you're

1:41:30

always going to be disappointed by the way it

1:41:32

is depicted. I would hear

1:41:34

the same sorts of assessments

1:41:37

of like, oh, they clearly did this on the Daily Ship

1:41:39

because of this. I'm like, you have no

1:41:41

fucking idea. You have a bullshit understanding.

1:41:45

And that's showbiz, a thing that people...

1:41:48

That's widely reported about. So people have

1:41:50

this idea that they understand it. And

1:41:54

even so, they're wrong.

1:41:57

But that's fine. That's not like, why should you know about

1:41:59

it if it's... not your thing. And

1:42:02

likewise, I agree with Elliot, where I'm writing

1:42:04

a screenplay right now that, you know, like

1:42:07

most screenplays will probably remain

1:42:09

unproduced. But among other

1:42:11

things, for instance, I'm like looking into

1:42:13

the workings of chimneys. I'm like, okay,

1:42:16

does a chimney work like this? Maybe not,

1:42:19

but it works close enough that

1:42:21

for my story, I will

1:42:23

write it like this and 90% of people