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0:34

You're shining right time. Your first stop

0:36

baby, your mother.

0:40

Thumb. William,

0:41

here

0:42

we are. Here

0:43

we are indeed. Are

0:45

you comfortable? financially. No.

0:48

Just like where your butt is. Yeah.

0:50

These chairs are quite comfy, actually. I would

0:52

like to be a little bit more you

0:54

know, skewed towards you.

0:56

Yeah. We should probably,

0:58

at some point,

1:00

do that. Because why why are we

1:02

like I feel like that, you

1:04

know, like, our avant garde, where

1:08

they they the people don't talk to each

1:10

other, they talk out to the audience, you know,

1:12

when they're talking to each other. Mhmm. That's

1:14

what we we're like an Avon Gal podcast.

1:17

always felt that we were that anyway.

1:19

We're always on the air junk. We feel little

1:21

bit like I'm on a comfy throne. Yeah.

1:23

Me too. Mhmm. But we we should have

1:25

something why

1:27

in a podcast when it's about conversation.

1:30

we we don't we don't actually look at each

1:32

other. Yeah. That's true. Never we could ask. Let's

1:34

go. Look guy. It's not

1:36

good here. you could ask him. You may not

1:38

get much. It's a little lucky knows too much, to

1:40

be honest.

1:41

Feeling the

1:45

We've had some questions. Should we jump into

1:47

these? Let me just get come this

1:49

is another thing to think about this seat, Tom.

1:52

I'd like to be on one side or the other. I don't

1:54

like being in the middle. I feel like it's

1:57

it's too it's too weighed Mhmm.

1:59

So I'd like to be on one side to get

2:01

get kind of squished in one side or

2:03

the other. Mhmm. But Anyway,

2:06

let me get comfortable and then help me with a

2:08

question. You get you get comfortable because this is

2:10

actually a question for you. Go on that

2:12

from Elise. in

2:14

Washington United States about

2:17

Washington state or Washington DC.

2:19

Well, she didn't stipulate. Well, There's

2:21

two of them, yes, there is done. Hello, Elyse.

2:23

She said Billy -- Yes. -- you got the news

2:25

that you had been cast in

2:28

rent. Did you find

2:30

out what character you were originally

2:32

cast as? Who

2:34

were you going for? I did.

2:37

It wasn't him. No. I forget

2:39

his name, no. He's the he's the filmmaker. There's

2:41

a rock star. Never seen it. There's

2:43

a filmmaker And

2:46

it's a film maker. How do you

2:48

document real life when

2:50

real life's getting more like a fiction

2:53

each day? That's what he says.

2:56

So his life is getting more like a

2:58

film and he's trying to

3:00

capture what real life feels like.

3:03

he didn't get it to you. I didn't get it told

3:05

that he got it. I was told I got it. I

3:07

didn't get it. Mhmm. And I really wanted

3:09

it.

3:10

But it's the guy, the filmmaker

3:14

in Africa. His name, that's terrible.

3:16

Rogers the rock star. Angel

3:20

is a lovely part. And

3:22

then it's not Keith.

3:25

It's like Keith. People out there are screaming

3:27

at you what it is. Sorry.

3:31

What does

3:33

he say his name? Maybe

3:36

Yeah. He does.

3:38

Hi, Steve. Wish Dave all was

3:41

less like a film, something

3:43

like that. So yeah. That was that guy.

3:45

Yeah. Anyway, Stump, 211 Do

3:47

you want a question? Yeah. Go on. Right.

3:49

Hold

3:49

on your heart, Tom. Don't read the questions

3:52

otherwise you know what else. Well, I don't know

3:54

the answer. Just

3:56

the question to get on the answer. answer.

3:59

Right. Hold us. Hold on. Hold this.

4:02

Oh, it's not that type of podcast. Hey,

4:05

Craig Deacon from Germany.

4:08

from lunch tool. Oh, lunch

4:10

tool. Lunch tool. pronunciation

4:12

there, though. You know what that is? No. Right.

4:15

get it on there. Hey,

4:17

fail as he says, I'm reaching out from

4:19

Landstool Germany. I was watching

4:21

fail ship at the ring. I was wondering, If

4:23

you could tell me more details on

4:26

when the Orcs and cave troll was

4:28

attacking in the mains of Moria, for example,

4:31

yo attacked the cave troll after

4:34

Frodo got stabbed by the troll and you jumped

4:36

on him. What was used for that

4:38

scene? What did you jump on? because

4:40

I wasn't a troll there. He said, no. That wasn't

4:42

dumb. If

4:43

there is something you would like me to send

4:45

you from Germany, let me know. I know

4:47

you've spent some time there and we're

4:49

even born there. I'll pick that up.

4:51

Oh, yeah. Good. Thanks. Thanks, guys.

4:54

And then he says, there's a throwaway at the end.

4:56

I love you, belly, and the same goes to you. But

4:58

it doesn't really mean that. It it

5:00

meant that more for you because you've got the cane

5:03

German heritage as it were. Cheers.

5:05

And that but I loved Germany. You know that.

5:07

It's one of my favorite countries. You know that word? That's

5:09

a good one to remember in Germany. I'm sure you've heard

5:11

before. Cheers. Cheers. It's a little bit like

5:13

ciao. You know the best. Cheers.

5:16

Cheers. Cheers. That's

5:18

mine stools. Yeah. Cheers. Yeah.

5:20

Lovely. Alright. Sell good. Well,

5:22

the question -- Yeah. -- we attacked a

5:24

cave troll. What was used for the scene

5:26

when we jumped on him? Well, do

5:29

you

5:29

see what I say?

5:30

No. So so now I hear you

5:32

because I've got a feeling that

5:35

your memory of this is

5:37

not right. It's gonna be foggy. my

5:39

recollection of it is that

5:41

it's not actually us. It's a computer

5:43

generated version of us jumping onto

5:45

a computer generated troll, or is that

5:47

not correct? That's not a hundred

5:50

percent correct. So Only one of his

5:52

jumped on the Trollope. Oh, it was

5:54

me. Really? What did he jump on?

5:56

Hey, Jackson. There

5:59

was a few different things. Mhmm. But,

6:02

like, when we were fighting at

6:04

all, when hide behind the thing. You

6:06

know, if you remember, sometimes it was

6:08

just a tennis ball on a stick. Remember

6:10

that? So just so that we were all

6:12

looking at the right thing for his eyes,

6:14

basically. Yeah. But they they did

6:16

have obviously,

6:18

the what it was gonna look like and

6:20

and Pete brought us on a computer and said, this

6:22

is what the troll will be like and how we

6:24

move so that, you know. And

6:27

if I'm honest, they're seen

6:29

where I'm honest back. I

6:32

can't a hundred percent remember what

6:34

I was on. But I remember I did have to

6:36

do I had to jump off and do a forward

6:39

rule. Oh. Which yeah.

6:41

That was quite exciting. Yeah. But

6:43

I think it was just there was a few different

6:45

things. Sometimes I was some I was

6:47

actually on like a a

6:49

stuntman and sometimes it

6:51

was like, you know, just on a sort

6:53

of thing that the belt of the ground

6:55

than wood. And

6:57

looking at you, you were down track stab him

6:59

and -- Oh, I was there. I was there for you. --

7:01

giving you an eyeliner because you didn't have one from the

7:03

Cape trial. And I was happy to do it.

7:05

Well, you start up by saying, I think your memories

7:08

about the K-twelve are gonna be vague, dumb. And your

7:10

memories about the K-twelve were quite vague, really.

7:12

Yeah. Yeah. You've you've been hoisted

7:14

by your own personality. But I do remember

7:16

doing it, and I remember it being quite an exciting

7:19

thing, the old gift troll thing and that. Yeah.

7:21

That sequence was great because all the fellowship were

7:23

encased in Moria together

7:25

and we were there all day. There

7:27

was a lovely feeling on set. There

7:29

was a nice little fun

7:31

dynamic teasing between

7:33

the humans and the elves and the Elves

7:35

and the Dwarves and the Hobbits were in their own

7:37

little thing. Right? Yeah. Ian Mackellen was in a good

7:39

mood and he was wind up Vigo

7:41

and -- Yeah. -- Orlando and we were

7:43

all having fun. It was a it was a great feeling. I

7:45

think we were all just a bit giddy

7:48

and excited by just how incredible that set

7:50

was because it Moria was one of the best. It was one

7:52

of those brilliant incredible set of fans

7:54

everywhere. I'm not gonna get super

7:58

into the the rings of

8:00

power right now, the TV show. The

8:02

TV show. And because

8:04

we made speak a little bit about

8:06

that show today with her fantastic

8:08

guest. True. But I

8:10

will see one of the

8:12

things are, like, best about it. is

8:14

when there's characters that you're like,

8:16

oh, that character was

8:18

in Lord of Rings -- Mhmm. -- somehow, like,

8:21

Jordan. Mhmm. Like, that was

8:23

the has Tomb we were in.

8:25

And then to see him on TV now

8:27

-- Mhmm. -- like, and see in her

8:29

story. Yeah. And I do sing the actor put

8:31

during this. fantas. He's very good. And I

8:33

love seeing Moria looking so healthy

8:35

and, you know, it's it's a place where

8:38

a great community is strong in the field. viewers

8:40

going up. some

8:42

very cool stuff in that. Yeah. Well,

8:44

thank you, Craig. We got one last

8:46

question here from the lovely Sophie

8:48

Harris. where's Sophie Harris from? She

8:50

didn't say where she was from. She's just

8:52

leaving it just as a question. It's just from

8:54

Planet Earth. She said, hi, guys.

8:57

Wider mods love light

8:59

so much. Light light bulbs and

9:01

phone screens. And I'm interested to see

9:03

what Billy thinks about this. If you were to

9:05

answer it, Why do month?

9:07

Why are months attracted to?

9:09

I've known you for a long time, Don. And

9:11

if I get this wrong, this would be

9:13

a very embarrassing. I'm sure that a

9:15

few people have actually you that over the years.

9:17

Don't being an expert of

9:19

moths and other flying creatures -- Mhmm.

9:21

-- and also creatures that crawl

9:23

and walk Yeah. Two and four legs,

9:25

creatures. sects, and it? Mm-mm. Crickets

9:27

in general. Crickets. A lot of flying

9:30

nocturnal creatures are a trap it

9:32

too. Lights aren't they? Here's what I'm thinking,

9:34

Don't you? Tell me. Do you

9:36

think it's the moon? Mhmm. And

9:39

do you think I'll fly

9:41

towards that? for a

9:43

reason that is

9:44

beyond me,

9:45

but they do think it's the

9:47

moon. They do think it's the moon. But why would

9:49

they be flying towards the moon? Yeah.

9:52

Well, so you've got half of it. Right?

9:54

Well, thanks. Yeah. Those

9:56

those animals do navigate

9:58

by the light of the moon, but obviously

9:59

the the

10:01

moon is a long way away

10:03

from them. So what they do is they keep

10:05

the moon at a certain

10:07

kind of angle gradient to

10:09

where they fly. And they always keep it,

10:11

let's say, for the sake of argument, to their

10:13

left at forty five degrees. So

10:15

they know If they're gonna turn right

10:17

-- Yeah. -- face in the opposite direction

10:19

from where they're going. Right. But with

10:21

an artificial light being so

10:24

close, they think Well,

10:26

I'll just fly in the

10:28

direction of the thing.

10:30

That's my kind of north star. But

10:34

then they get caught in a little cyclone

10:36

where they're trapped now with

10:38

no direction because they've hit

10:40

the thing that they're navigating by. Do you

10:42

know what I mean? Happened to me once

10:44

playing Boyman's buff Yeah.

10:46

And McGran's hallway

10:48

-- Mhmm. -- you know, blame Man's

10:51

buff. Basically, a you

10:53

blindfolded and you're trying to capture the kids.

10:55

Yeah. So I get stuck

10:57

in the corner and the

10:59

corner of a hallway only has two

11:01

walls. And

11:01

for some reason, dumb, I could

11:03

not get over there. So

11:05

you went left

11:07

right, left right, you can work it out. I couldn't

11:09

walk out, hey, oh, your pals will laughing at you

11:11

really. What do you think? I was

11:13

like a moth -- Mhmm. -- at the

11:15

lake. Moth to a flame. And

11:18

so obviously a lot of flying animals

11:20

do that. Spiders are

11:22

very smart because they

11:24

tend to put up their webs

11:26

close to artificial lights now

11:28

so that they don't have to do all the work.

11:30

The animals will come to them. Yeah. You'll see

11:32

that a lot around That's amazing. You

11:34

and I were in Thailand. Yeah. Any light

11:36

that goes up, all the spiders and all the

11:38

all the snakes and lizzes will just hang

11:40

up by that light, waiting for food to come

11:42

to them. It's why this web has

11:44

to be one of the most amazing things. I've

11:46

already -- Yeah. Pretty granular. -- that there's an

11:48

animal that makes it so

11:50

entrap -- Yeah. -- out of its But

11:52

as a year of this afternoon, you know.

11:54

And and can make different

11:56

consistency in that web. Right?

11:59

that can make some that it

11:59

uses for

12:01

it to, like, shelter in -- Yeah. -- this

12:03

little, you know, hideaway -- Uh-huh. -- and then

12:05

some that uses to trap animals and then that

12:07

when the animal shows up, it produces a very

12:10

sticky webbing so that it can trap it very

12:12

quickly. So they can create different

12:14

consistencies to that webbing. Amazing.

12:16

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13:26

Remember the days

13:28

before streaming services when you had just

13:30

come on from high school and it was only a few hours

13:32

until that TV show that everyone was

13:34

watching was gonna come on. Your

13:36

friends run their way over for a watch party and

13:38

the smell of popcorn filled the room. Well, in

13:40

nineteen ninety nine, that particular

13:42

show was one of Billy's favorites. Buffie

13:44

the vampire slayer. Well, in the new

13:47

podcast from wondering the

13:49

rewatch your buffie the vampire

13:51

slayer. We had taken it back to nineteen

13:53

ninety nine. get out your knee high boots

13:55

and paste that poster of

13:57

angel on your wall. It's time to

13:59

enter the buffer vest. joined

14:01

morbid costars, Ashen

14:03

Alina, as they slid their way through

14:05

buffy's drama, action, and romance,

14:07

episode by episong.

14:09

And to the bossy verse with Alana

14:11

and Ash, listen to the re

14:13

watcher, bossy the vampire on

14:15

Amazon Music Apple Podcast. or listen

14:17

early and ad free by subscribing

14:19

to wondering plus in Apple

14:21

Podcasts or the wondering app.

14:24

Buff me, baby one more

14:26

time.

14:26

William, what is it

14:28

John? Look to your left as bear.

14:30

Hello? Hello? How are you

14:32

doing, bear? Great. How are you guys?

14:35

We

14:35

are very happy that you've decided

14:37

to come into the friendship. I

14:39

am thrilled. There's no

14:41

other onion I would rather be at. Right? The best

14:44

onion. The best That's the best

14:46

onion. The only onion that won't make you cry.

14:48

That's the way back. we will say fans

14:50

for for many reasons, a lot

14:52

of the people that listen to the friendship,

14:54

onion will, of course, know you from

14:56

the the the new Lord

14:58

of the Rings on TV.

15:00

Oh, yeah. But of

15:02

course, there is many many things

15:05

that you have done. And if you don't mind, we'd like to embarrass

15:07

you by listing a few just now. Hold on.

15:09

Let me prepare my Just just enjoyed.

15:11

I am ready. Dominic, would you like to I

15:13

just can't I can't read, you know. Oh, well, I'll go

15:15

ahead then. When, bear

15:18

bear bear. Are you

15:20

ready? an American musician

15:22

and composer of film television

15:24

and video games based in

15:26

Los Angeles, California. included

15:29

in his works. Get ready for those

15:31

people. Bassistar

15:33

Galactica. Classic. Well, no,

15:35

I'm still a beauty or something.

15:37

There we are. And that's a classic.

15:39

Agents of shields. Nice.

15:42

Oh, I hope land.

15:44

Oh, I've heard you. You're very close to my

15:46

house. Yes. The Walking

15:48

Dead -- Fantastic. -- the rings of

15:50

power of course. Mhmm. And if a new

15:52

games call of Duty, Vanguard, God

15:54

of War -- Mhmm. -- I mean, it

15:56

just goes on and on, goes on. I

15:58

mean, you've get amid da da da da da

16:00

da da da da da da da da da da da da da da

16:02

da da da da da

16:05

da da da. You have embarrassed me enough. Yeah. I

16:07

think that is absolutely plenty.

16:11

But going back

16:13

to Bautostar Galactica,

16:15

I think that's where I first got

16:18

introduced to your work. That's where

16:20

everyone that

16:21

so I got introduced to my work. That was my

16:23

first job. Was it That was

16:25

my mom was a great job. I was

16:27

twenty four. I was

16:29

a child, basically, and

16:32

should never have been put in

16:34

charge of a score like BattleStar, Galacticica,

16:36

but there it was. Well,

16:38

we'll go we'll go back to that then

16:40

there just to start with. Mhmm. I mean, how

16:42

how would you how would that

16:44

I

16:44

mean, who as you see,

16:46

if that's your first job. Yeah.

16:48

who said to you this is

16:51

the guy.

16:51

Well, I was working

16:55

for a composer named Richard Gibbs who

16:57

scored the mini series. I was

16:59

working under him -- Mhmm. -- the mini

17:01

series was a four hour pilot -- Mhmm. --

17:03

basically.

17:03

And so from there,

17:06

when it became a series, He

17:09

Richard at the time was doing a lot of feature

17:12

films, and and also

17:14

television at that time

17:16

wasn't what it is. today.

17:18

Mhmm. So I think that there was

17:20

a a

17:21

sense that, you know, he he he

17:23

went on to do these other things, and I think that

17:25

they were looking for someone else to

17:27

take over the to the score of

17:29

the show. And while they

17:31

were looking, they let me do one

17:33

episode. Oh, nice. And and that

17:36

episode was the the first episode that aired,

17:38

one called thirty three -- Mhmm.

17:40

-- which is in

17:42

my humble opinion

17:44

one of the best hours of television

17:46

made in that decade. Mhmm. It was I

17:48

mean, the the mini series spectacular,

17:50

but that first episode of season one of BattleStar really

17:53

shook things up and showed that

17:55

this was a series that was not going to

17:57

turn into a procedural -- Yeah.

17:59

-- venture of the week that it was gonna tell AAA

18:03

gripping story that unfolded

18:05

over seasons. And I

18:07

didn't screw it up. You guys? I

18:09

didn't screw it up. And at

18:11

the end, they said,

18:14

Okay.

18:14

Why don't you why don't you come in tomorrow? Let's let's take a

18:16

look at the next

18:16

episode and I thought, oh, maybe I get to do two

18:19

episodes. Yeah. Here

18:21

we go. and the rest was was

18:23

history. We just kept going. How many episodes in

18:25

that first season? There were thirteen,

18:27

and I ended up scoring between

18:29

the straight to DVD movies and the shows, and I

18:31

did the spin off capricut. I mean, I ended up scoring

18:33

about a hundred hours of Battle

18:35

Sargalactica. well. You know, over

18:37

the course of hours of music. Almost

18:39

ten, you've not spent a hundred hours doing anything

18:42

from sitting in your house. I've I've

18:44

spent a lot of hours sitting in the marsh thinking

18:46

about things and Well, then you're as

18:48

good at that. Yeah. You know what I

18:50

mean? You've you've mastered sitting on

18:52

your ass thinking about stuff. And what

18:55

would be like looking back on battle,

18:57

Stargardt now, what would be the kind

18:59

of signature

18:59

of that of that sound for you?

19:01

It's an interesting question.

19:04

Dominic because I I feel like I'm inside

19:06

my head and I don't

19:08

know how to say what the

19:10

signature sound is because it's

19:12

something that I feel like an outside observer was

19:14

like, oh, here's this thing you do, and

19:16

I'd be very interested to

19:18

know. I will say that when I look

19:20

back on what I did and listen, which I do

19:22

once in a while, I think that

19:24

it was my naiveté that

19:26

was on display in a really

19:29

good way. I grew up

19:31

loving film music. I

19:33

did not grow up loving

19:36

TV. I

19:36

mean, I watched

19:37

Eight Team and Magnum PI

19:39

and stuff, but I wasn't like thinking this

19:41

is where I wanted my life direction to be. Mhmm.

19:43

I was watching Star Wars.

19:45

It was watching Conan the Barbarian and

19:48

aliens and Highlander and these kind

19:50

of big epic fantasy sci fi

19:52

stories. Mhmm. So when

19:54

I got the opportunity to do battle

19:57

star. I was very young and

19:59

I was energetic enough and eager enough

20:01

that I just thought I'm gonna score this

20:03

using all the techniques

20:05

that I've learned studying that kind of music.

20:07

I'm not gonna go ask

20:10

someone who has experienced in TV how how

20:12

to do it.

20:13

I think you can hear that. That I

20:16

didn't know what I was doing. I just know the

20:18

kind of music I love to do. And in

20:20

a way, I have never asked anyone

20:22

how to do television. I just

20:24

kind of stumbled into that

20:26

way of doing it. And

20:28

and in a way that kinda laid

20:30

the groundwork for what I would end up being asked

20:32

to do on rings of power twenty years later.

20:34

Mhmm. Really? Well, as you see, I

20:36

mean, you you can tell

20:38

that those sort of bigger

20:41

movies as sort of where

20:43

your influences come from, especially Like,

20:45

when you when I think of BaroStar,

20:47

I think of it as being like an

20:49

opera, And it's Yeah. And it's

20:51

it's big and it's got big themes

20:53

and it has this always

20:56

underlying kind of

20:57

And I don't know, like,

21:00

the end

21:00

is not gonna be great. Like, you know,

21:02

the counting. Yeah. Yeah. For boarding

21:05

the other word. The counting clacking

21:07

off, you know, every time someone dies,

21:09

there's another human going kind

21:11

of thing. And that the music had

21:13

that operatic beautiful that

21:16

supported that story, which

21:18

was broke. So what a great well,

21:21

everyone on the show felt

21:23

the same way

21:23

I did that it was something really special.

21:26

Right. And and Eddie Almost Edward

21:28

James Almost would often pull us

21:30

aside he was very much the

21:32

patriarch onset that you would assume he

21:34

is. Mhmm. And he would always say,

21:36

you guys have no idea. You guys have

21:38

no idea how special this is. talking

21:41

to me and many of

21:43

the cast members for whom. We were all in our

21:45

early twenties. Like, we didn't know. You

21:48

know? And But he

21:50

was right. It's not always like

21:52

that. Yeah. And and I'm sure

21:54

you guys can relate to that

21:56

feeling of getting involved in something early

21:58

in your career. And you know, yo, this is

21:59

really special. This is really good. But then there's

22:02

somebody else in your life who's like, you're

22:03

gonna go through the rest of your life and probably

22:06

never work on something

22:08

like this again. It's so rare. Mhmm.

22:10

So that was really cool. And

22:12

that operatic quality, that big sound

22:14

is something that evolved naturally and

22:17

and I would just, again, in my

22:20

naivete, I'd see the season one

22:22

finale. And I just think, we

22:24

we didn't have an orchestra. It wasn't

22:26

always a big sound. And

22:28

I went to the studio.

22:30

I just I very naively

22:32

called my friend at the studio. I didn't even

22:34

call the show runners. And I was

22:35

like, hey, man. Like, have you seen the season

22:37

finale? I'm crying. Like, we

22:39

gotta get strings on this. We have

22:40

an orchestra, and he's like, I know. We have

22:42

to do it. And it's like, we found the money

22:44

and just did it. You know what I mean?

22:46

That's great. It was I

22:48

was contractually obligated to not use Orchestra. But

22:51

I didn't know or care. I

22:53

just saw that

22:54

ending. I don't wanna spoil it first

22:57

season ending. Oh my god. And

22:59

everybody on the show just

23:01

knew. Yeah. We gotta we gotta have an orchestra on

23:03

this. Mhmm. And that naive ate did sort

23:05

of set in motion my

23:07

way of approaching TV

23:09

in that cinematic way, which is

23:11

like, let's just look at it and

23:14

And

23:14

if no matter what no matter how ambitious it

23:16

is, let's just go for that. You

23:18

know? Like,

23:18

that's what it should be. Yeah. And I

23:21

think that that is very much the way

23:23

TV's done now. Lost

23:25

also was done that way. There were some

23:27

other shows around that time. But

23:31

Shortly before that, TV was

23:33

expected to be a small low

23:35

budget experience -- Yeah. -- that does

23:37

not replicate the cinematic

23:39

experience. And, you know, it's almost

23:41

it's almost switched now, hasn't it too

23:43

there? It really has. Mhmm. It

23:45

is not lost upon me, gentlemen,

23:48

that after

23:48

a battle star and Walking Dead

23:50

and Outlander, over the last ten years

23:52

of my career, I've made a concerted effort to

23:54

move into other mediums. I felt

23:57

like I had done what TV could do at the

23:59

time, and and I worked on

24:01

Godzilla King. And the monsters moving into

24:03

movies, I worked on little art films,

24:06

professor in the madman. I did video

24:08

games. But that whole time,

24:10

television was continuing

24:12

to evolve. in the way that it

24:14

had started -- Mhmm. -- in the mid two thousands. And sure

24:16

enough when when rings

24:18

of power was announced,

24:21

even then I started thinking like, is this

24:24

show going

24:25

to be bigger

24:26

and more grand

24:29

than anything a film could

24:31

even do today in the

24:33

modern era? Like, are we at that tipping point?

24:36

look, bias is on the table now that I work

24:38

on it. I think it is.

24:41

Mhmm. You know what I mean? I think that I think that

24:43

we are at this point where it has flipped

24:45

in that television for a variety of

24:48

reasons is telling

24:50

the kind of stories that I grew

24:52

up on. Mhmm. That's that's the irony

24:54

of it. Right? That, like, I grew up admiring

24:56

all these big epic movies and not

24:58

really thinking about television. But

25:01

in a way, if I were a child

25:03

today, the things that would really be inspiring me

25:05

and I'd be obsessing over would be on TV.

25:07

Yeah. And that movies would be

25:09

the occasional distraction or an

25:12

occasional good one would come up. Yeah. Is that

25:14

weird? Well, I think it's an

25:16

accurate way of describing both those

25:18

mediums now because, like, television

25:22

affords you the time to

25:24

spend with those characters that you just

25:26

do not have in movies anymore, you know,

25:28

there in most Successful movies,

25:30

they're gonna need to present the

25:32

character and what that person is all about within

25:34

the first kind of six to eight minutes.

25:36

whereas in rings a power, you can do over a couple of

25:39

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onion. I think

29:40

there's also something to be said

29:43

for taking risks. And when

29:45

I think about all the things

29:47

that I love, I mean,

29:49

I

29:49

guess,

29:50

I was gonna say, I I love those

29:52

those films when I was a kid that that

29:54

took the risks. Mhmm.

29:56

And the copycats might be

29:58

fun, but they're

29:59

never as fun. Mhmm.

30:01

And I

30:02

definitely think that risks

30:04

in television have

30:07

been greater over

30:08

the last fifteen years -- Yeah. -- creative desks. Yeah.

30:10

You know? And

30:12

and that as a

30:14

viewer is almost where

30:16

you're more likely to see something that

30:18

really surprises you. Not exclusively,

30:21

obviously. No. You can name fiber

30:23

movies that have come out of last few years that really took risks and were rewarded.

30:25

But those are the those are the

30:27

exceptions that prove the rule -- Mhmm. -- you

30:30

know, whereas I think It used

30:32

to be film There there was

30:33

always something new coming out. It was

30:36

almost expected that every summer, some

30:38

new movie would come out and blow

30:40

your mind You know? I saw something with it. I

30:42

think it was, yeah, Matt Damon, who was

30:44

talking about that and saying it's

30:46

because of the way movies are

30:49

released now. because it used to

30:51

be you'd have your your

30:53

your your theatrical release and

30:55

then the DVD release was

30:58

basically the same as the theatrical. Yeah.

31:00

So if you if it if you made a a you

31:02

know, if it was a move in it cost a

31:04

hundred million, and you got fifty

31:06

million at the theater, you knew you would get

31:08

fifty million in DVD,

31:10

and then it would it's paid

31:12

itself off and then you can stop making

31:14

money. And then you'd have a third one with

31:16

syndication television broadcast. And

31:18

then you can maybe make some profit there if

31:20

it went well there and there. But that

31:22

whole DVD thing has disappeared now.

31:24

Absolutely. So no no one will

31:26

take the rest because

31:28

you got a risky movie that cost a

31:31

hundred million and the fifty million

31:33

you make, that's it. You you kind of have

31:35

a weekend. next guys. That's

31:37

crazy. It's it's a high stakes

31:40

environment. Mhmm. And but

31:42

look, I mean, that's happening

31:44

in TV. I don't wanna describe

31:46

TV as this Shanghai where everyone

31:48

takes risks and the money doesn't matter

31:50

because everything that happened in

31:52

feature film world is happening in the video game

31:54

space and it's happening in TV where

31:57

in order to stand out, you

31:59

have spend more money, the more money you

32:01

spend, the greater risk you're taking. Yeah.

32:03

I mean,

32:03

and look, with with

32:05

rings of power, I think

32:07

I mean, I I could talk all day

32:09

about how great I think the show is, which

32:12

is good. Mhmm. But it

32:14

also is they are spending an amount

32:16

of money that will change the

32:18

history of the medium. Yeah. One way or the other.

32:20

No. I'm not advocating one or the

32:22

other. That's either gonna be a one off

32:24

and no one else ever tries it

32:26

or it'll become the

32:27

standard, in which

32:28

case, if you aren't spending

32:31

Amazon money to make your show, you're

32:33

kind of doomed and then television

32:35

becomes exactly what Matt Damon was describing --

32:37

Yeah. -- features were. It's a

32:38

weird it's a weird situation and it's almost like

32:41

the best place

32:42

to be is right when a medium is

32:45

exploding outward -- Yeah. --

32:47

before all the money catches up

32:49

And then people get risk averse. Mhmm.

32:51

Because as as true, no matter what you

32:53

think of Ring to Power, and I I

32:55

really like it. I think it's fantastic.

32:58

I think what you're talking about is

33:00

true. When I said and I seemed to watch

33:02

it on a Sunday, I think,

33:05

and I

33:06

sit there and

33:08

and and it's a

33:09

kind of and it's an experience that

33:11

I'm not getting with a lot of other

33:13

TV shows where I'm

33:16

I'm in Moria, and I'm loving it,

33:18

and it's huge as we were talking about

33:20

before, Dom. And these Elevators

33:22

get up Moria, and I'm just like,

33:25

oh, wow. and then I'm on a

33:27

boat -- Yeah. -- that looks

33:29

amazing in the middle of the sea heading for the

33:31

elven lands and that that it's

33:33

an experience that

33:35

I don't feel like I've

33:37

maybe got before watching

33:39

a TV, I've maybe seen it in a in

33:41

a movie theater before. and

33:44

the music and and

33:46

sometimes, Bear was

33:48

stupid enough to get me his telephone

33:51

So sometimes that takes ten little things as

33:53

I'm watching it as well. Like, oh, I

33:55

love you from that. I love you a commentary,

33:57

man. It's always Oh, it's always pretty

34:00

awesome. But I I you

34:02

know, there's something very

34:04

special about that experience. And

34:06

and, you know, and people

34:08

can be trolls online or

34:11

whatever, but that experience

34:13

of certain in

34:15

your front room watching on

34:17

a TV. I don't

34:17

I'm trying to think in my mind just

34:20

now. I don't think I've had that before. What

34:22

do you think, Dominic, have you seen the show? Yeah. Yeah.

34:24

I love

34:26

it. That's great. I agree with Billy. I think the

34:28

immersion, but also like like,

34:30

let's say they let's say

34:33

Amazon said we're gonna each

34:35

week, we're gonna allow you to go see

34:37

that cinema, which should be great because

34:39

you'd have a phenomenal sound and and a

34:41

great screen to watch it on. Yeah.

34:43

but I think people nowadays have pretty

34:46

good TVs and you

34:49

can stay at home comfortable with

34:51

your doggy work. Yeah. Yeah. A cup of tea. Yeah. A little

34:53

snack. There's something quite cozy and intimate about

34:55

that. And even though there are moments of

34:57

high excitement and

35:00

and, you know, kind of, you know,

35:02

characters ultimately

35:04

being in

35:05

in in danger there

35:07

is a coziness about -- Yeah. -- that

35:09

world. Yeah. Yeah. But

35:12

but I'm kinda yeah. I'm comfortable working

35:14

out as what Bolton just knows. Yeah. And

35:16

as it's cinematic experience, but

35:19

done in a way where, yeah,

35:21

it's comfortable and you're in your house. And I

35:23

wonder if it's more comfortable for us.

35:25

specifically because we have actually been to those

35:27

places and it it triggers those parts of

35:29

our amygdala. Absolutely. Wow.

35:32

New Zealand and the crew and the cast and everything. You

35:34

know, for us, it's quite a bit. I was seeing that

35:36

to Doma a couple of minutes ago,

35:40

like, seeing characters that can pop up and lord of the

35:42

Rings and the Rings of Power and see

35:44

in their story -- Yeah. -- before

35:46

that is and even,

35:48

like, with

35:50

to I I takes bare last week, like, mithro

35:54

I know. Yeah. I mean, things

35:56

like that is just, like,

35:59

so exciting.

35:59

It's gotta be a trip for you guys. Yeah.

36:02

I was just this

36:04

morning

36:04

zooming with Meghan Richards

36:07

who plays Poppy on the show -- Yeah.

36:09

-- talking about the

36:10

hearth foot song. Yeah. And I was telling her

36:12

and for a minute that I was I was realizing, like,

36:15

I'm

36:15

gonna hang out today with the

36:17

two people who have sung

36:19

Hobbits songs in live

36:22

action adaptation like because I was suddenly realizing, like, I'm gonna see Billy in

36:24

a few hours -- Yeah. -- how surreal, but

36:26

then I also

36:28

realized, like, how

36:29

cool for her to get to pick

36:31

up a tradition? I mean, can you

36:33

even call it a tradition? I get,

36:35

but it's like, you know, the

36:37

song in return to the king that you're saying --

36:39

Mhmm. -- is such an iconic thing

36:41

people remember. And now

36:44

here's a new hobot character -- Mhmm. -- singing a song. Like, what was

36:46

that like for you to see

36:48

that? I mean, as as

36:50

as I've told the

36:50

story a few times, you know, when I

36:54

when I wrote that song, I wanted it to sound

36:56

like it's something these grandmother's

36:58

son because she had

37:00

her grandfather sing it. So

37:04

It could have been the harvest. That could have came

37:06

from them. So when I heard

37:08

that song, I was like, oh, it's great.

37:12

The harvest I'm calling them the hobbits. You can call them the hobbits.

37:14

They're they're singing in middle

37:16

earth, and I love that every great

37:18

pair of I I

37:20

felt the same. And I I felt that it was

37:22

like, I feel it

37:24

as a comfort

37:25

thing too. I mean, obviously,

37:28

the movies for me were something I experienced

37:30

when they were done

37:32

over and over over and over. and

37:34

over, along with all

37:35

the behind the scenes DVDs,

37:38

the the all the supplemental material that

37:40

that was made about what you guys

37:42

went through. I

37:44

mean, so I felt that

37:46

same sense of coming home

37:48

when I watched the show. Yeah. It is interesting

37:50

to imagine that I mean, I'm

37:52

also trying to do my part as a

37:54

filmmaker to

37:55

welcome people to Middle Earth that don't feel

37:57

that way. Yeah. You know what I mean? And that's one

37:59

thing

37:59

that, like, I

38:01

am reminded in all fan interactions, many of

38:03

which, they're all intense.

38:05

Most are good.

38:08

Some aren't. But it's still that, like, there's a whole

38:10

other demographic of planet

38:11

Earth people that are younger than me

38:14

that that that that don't feel

38:16

anything about. watering.

38:18

Yeah. This will be their way in.

38:20

Yeah.

38:20

You know what I mean? So it's like

38:22

trying to be mindful of, like,

38:25

welcoming back

38:28

people

38:28

that love those movies to Middle

38:30

Earth, but also we're also saying

38:32

to younger people, go check out those movies. Mhmm. And and do you know what I mean?

38:35

I'm dulky in in that university.

38:37

I know that I

38:39

spoke to Peter. action when

38:41

he was making the hobbit, and he

38:44

was saying exactly the same

38:46

thing. He says a lot of people will be watching

38:48

these hobbit movies as

38:50

their introduction. Yeah. And then

38:52

you'll see lord of the rings. Mhmm. So now

38:54

there's the rings of power that may be the first

38:56

thing that might lead to the orbit that

38:58

might lead to So it's to the

39:00

books. So it all goes back to the books. That's what

39:02

I'm incredible. That's what I love about it.

39:04

Is it ultimately it's all of

39:06

this

39:06

is based on this incredible source

39:08

material you know, I

39:10

I read the hobbit when

39:12

I was a kid, but

39:14

it was the movies that drove me to the books.

39:16

Mhmm. It was the movies that made me

39:18

reevaluate and

39:19

thing think I must have missed

39:21

something because I'm a very

39:24

visual person

39:26

like film was my passion.

39:28

And the animated, various animated Lord

39:30

of the Rings, things they were cool, but man,

39:33

for me it was like Star

39:36

Wars and Conan the Barbarian and Jurassic Park. Like, I'm

39:38

I am I am not of the generation that,

39:40

like, Ralph Bauci's Lord of the Rings

39:42

could compete. Mhmm. With that So

39:45

I just kind of wrote it off. Mhmm. Do you

39:47

know what I mean? And then when the movies

39:49

came out, I thought I gotta go

39:51

back. I obviously missed something. So did you stumble into

39:54

that first fellowship of the ring

39:56

movie thinking? At that point,

39:58

it was

40:00

kind of a successful film and and your friends and family had

40:02

seen it? Or what made you go No. I

40:04

was preaching that this

40:06

movie was going

40:08

to be the

40:09

greatest movie of all time before it came out. I'll tell you

40:11

why Peter Jackson. Mhmm. I

40:13

had adored his

40:16

films through

40:17

the nineties. I rented

40:19

dead alive that which

40:21

Branded -- Yeah. -- you know, that

40:23

poster, the the the VHS box

40:25

I was like, what is the scary post?

40:27

Holy shit. That movie was amazing. Can I

40:29

say holy shit? Yeah. You can show it to you.

40:31

Holy shit. That movie is

40:33

amazing. And I and and and at that same time,

40:35

you know, III loved

40:38

cult

40:38

filmmakers. I loved Sam Ramey.

40:40

I loved that kind of

40:44

storytelling and I was like, this guy Peter Jackson is a

40:46

genius. Mhmm. And then I saw

40:47

heavenly creatures. Yeah. And and then I

40:50

saw

40:50

the frighteners. which is

40:51

hands down the most

40:54

underrated studio feature film

40:56

of all time. Yeah. That movie blew

40:58

my mind. So then when I thought when I heard

41:00

that guy is doing a big fantasy movie. That alone, I

41:03

was like, oh, this is gonna be amazing. Mhmm. Do

41:05

you know what I mean? And and it was,

41:07

and I felt so validated but

41:10

not surprised at all. Mhmm. because I just thought, you

41:13

know, he and Sam Ramey were

41:14

deceased two guys that I was telling

41:18

everybody You gotta keep an eye on these one and

41:20

two thousand two. I felt I was

41:22

probably annoying all my friends between that and

41:24

when Spider Man came out. I was like,

41:28

see. I told you I told you you gotta

41:30

listen to me. Yeah. Also in in Rings

41:32

of Power to go back to that for a

41:34

second, how it's sure wrote the

41:36

original theme, title theme. Yes. So did

41:38

you spend some time with Howard as

41:40

as collaborators together? I did and

41:42

I didn't. III got to know him

41:44

and speak with him a few times. We did not get to

41:46

collaborate -- Right. -- because of the timing of the schedule, I started and

41:49

then he did his main

41:51

title six months later,

41:54

I knew it was coming, but

41:56

it but it wasn't something that I was

41:58

gonna hear

41:58

before I was basically done laying

42:00

out all the themes and Right.

42:03

well into episode

42:06

six. But I

42:08

I was given free reign

42:10

to do whatever I wanted. And what I wanted was to honor what he did

42:12

-- Mhmm. -- and continue in the sort of,

42:15

like, tradition. Mhmm. that

42:17

he so it was fantastic to

42:20

hear his demo when it came in,

42:22

which kind of it was spine

42:23

tingling hearing it, but also getting to talk

42:26

with him. and I spoke with him

42:28

several times and he was

42:30

supportive and generous with his

42:32

time and

42:34

and Ultimately, it was wonderful to sort of

42:38

exchange words

42:39

with him about writing

42:41

about our creative process, our creative

42:44

lives, that alone

42:46

was amazing. But then

42:46

to get to talk with him about Lord of

42:49

the Rings specifically, was double amazing. But

42:51

then to get to talk with him about our creative process on Lord

42:53

of the Rings because I am scoring the

42:55

new Lord of the Rings -- Yeah. -- is

42:57

like mind blowing. Yeah.

43:00

Yeah. Amazing. So that was really cool.

43:02

You know what I mean? I feel I felt a lot of support from

43:04

him

43:04

and a sort of unspoken

43:09

the passing of

43:10

the torch, like like, I'm doing

43:11

my thing and we're we're

43:14

entering

43:14

the second age through this

43:18

lens that connects to the movies. But after that, it's

43:20

like, you got this. You know what I mean? How

43:22

did it how did it feel like your

43:24

your then sitting

43:26

there in front of a piano or something

43:28

and going, oh, okay. I

43:30

know. This is gonna be like alright,

43:33

man. I'm gonna confess that,

43:35

like, I talked about my naivete when I did

43:37

BattleStar Galactica. Yeah. I I

43:40

retain it to this day. Right.

43:42

My my ability to just

43:44

be naively excited about whatever

43:46

I'm doing -- Right. -- gets me

43:48

through the day. That's because can you imagine,

43:50

like, if I woke up and went,

43:52

okay, today, I'm gonna have

43:54

to write piece

43:55

of music that will be

43:57

as famous as Howard Shore's

43:59

Shire theme. And we're

44:01

scrutinized by

44:02

a hundred million fans. I

44:04

would throw up under the covers in

44:06

the in the trolley area of

44:08

history. I mean, the humanity.

44:10

Oh my god. to yeah. I mean, to even

44:13

sit at the computer in front of the piano, I

44:15

wouldn't even get to the piano. I would

44:17

just be weeping in bed.

44:19

So do you So, like I

44:21

don't think of that. So can't think No. get up and I go, ah, man, I get to tell this

44:23

awesome story. So, like,

44:26

not even

44:28

talking about everything else you've done for Ring's of Power. Do you

44:30

rate anything before you see a picture,

44:32

or do you wait for them to

44:35

send you some pictures some

44:38

films. It's a little a column a

44:40

and a little column b. Uh-huh. I

44:42

watched a

44:42

rough cut of two episodes. then

44:46

I read the scripts, spoke with the

44:48

show runners. Then I didn't look

44:49

at footage again for

44:51

almost two months. Right. Mhmm. And I

44:53

also told them I I wouldn't speak

44:55

to them for two months. Right. I was you're not gonna hear anything. You're

44:57

not gonna hear

45:00

from me. Bye bye. Right.

45:02

I need to go into my space where I am

45:04

safe to mess around

45:06

and I'm gonna write a bunch of themes

45:08

because it's

45:08

you you you need themes I need themes to write anything. Mhmm.

45:10

But in particular, I think to write something

45:12

for Lord of the Rings, you need themes.

45:15

Yeah. And you need so

45:17

many different worlds -- Yeah. -- entities and

45:19

yeah.

45:19

You need to have themes

45:22

that connect

45:22

to those different societies. Mhmm.

45:24

And then within those societies, you have conflicting themes that

45:26

each have to be different,

45:28

but enough that you understand.

45:30

Now, these are two dwarf characters.

45:33

that are in conflict with one another. Yeah. These are two elf

45:35

characters. These are two human

45:38

characters.

45:38

And I, you

45:39

know, created this whole kind of rule

45:42

set

45:42

and and mapped out intervals

45:44

and colors and rhythms because I

45:46

just so desperately

45:47

wanted to make themes that stood on their

45:50

own and could be

45:52

identified quickly. And then

45:54

I looked at the footage again and

45:57

started splashing some

45:59

music onto some scenes And then I

46:01

sent those scenes to the show runners. They never heard the

46:03

themes in isolation. They heard the themes in isolation

46:05

when the record came out. Okay.

46:08

Otherwise because I put some

46:10

tracks on the record. Otherwise, I I just

46:12

let them watch the scenes because I didn't

46:14

want to ruin their ability to have the

46:16

same experience you guys If -- Yeah. -- if the

46:18

Khazadoum theme works -- Yeah. -- you should just be

46:20

able to show you that scene and you get it.

46:22

Yeah. And it it's

46:23

great. You've you've done such a wonderful

46:25

job, but I think, really, as

46:27

it's wonderful. Such an imposing -- Yeah. -- world

46:29

to jump into. But, yeah,

46:31

it's fantastic and it's it's so funny because,

46:33

I mean, I'm sure we've

46:35

all seen it. if you if you watch those incredible

46:37

projects that are defined by the

46:40

scores and they take the score out and they're like,

46:42

what is the happening there? without

46:44

the school. It's amazing. There's something so

46:46

strange about, obviously, jaws without the school.

46:48

And the and the PJ accent loatherings.

46:51

film that we did without the score, I'm sure would be just

46:54

like Rings of Power. There's there's

46:56

so much that you can pull into.

46:58

The thing that III agree. And

47:00

the thing that I

47:01

learned when I

47:04

transitioned

47:05

from being just

47:07

just a

47:08

fan of all these things to wanting to do all

47:11

these things. because

47:11

I wanted to do this when I was five

47:14

years old. and

47:16

I started writing music

47:17

every day when I was thirteen

47:19

years

47:19

old. So really, I mean, I'm forty three.

47:21

I've been doing this for

47:24

thirty years. But one of the

47:26

things I learned is that there the sum total of everybody's work,

47:28

director acting, writing, editing,

47:30

sound is on music,

47:32

i knew that creates this thing

47:34

that we, as consumers, as

47:36

fans, it's very easy to worship these

47:38

things. And and and it's fun.

47:40

And you want to. Mhmm. But they're all

47:42

made

47:42

by just people that step up

47:45

to the plate and bring to the project

47:47

what they had to bring that day.

47:49

Mhmm. That's all it is. Yeah. You

47:51

know what I mean? You hear, like, Jerry

47:53

Goldsmith's

47:53

score for Chinatown, that lonely

47:58

trumpet solo He had two weeks to do the entire score. Mhmm. He got hired the last

48:00

minute. He's like, oh, shit. It's a alright.

48:02

Anwar. I'm just gonna write the score to

48:04

Chinatown. Mhmm. He just did it. Yeah. And

48:06

then he

48:08

moved on. You know

48:09

what I mean? And and and in a way

48:11

that's I

48:11

I actually haven't even thought about

48:14

verbalizing it this way

48:16

before. I think in starting

48:18

to realize that, I

48:20

internalize that

48:22

I give myself permission to write the

48:25

worst music ever heard by

48:27

humans. I'm just gonna get I

48:29

just gotta write some music today. gonna

48:31

get out of bed and write some music. Not only am

48:33

I not aspiring to be as good as Howard

48:35

Shore, like, I'm just aspiring to

48:38

be just garbage. Right. If I can say and just

48:40

write something terrible, that

48:42

gets me out of bed -- Uh-huh. -- and gets me

48:44

going. And then I start playing around with

48:47

it, and it You have to just get

48:49

those shackles, that self censorship. Mhmm. I I

48:52

imagine, correct me if I'm wrong, that as

48:54

actors, there must be

48:56

a similar thing where you must

48:58

be unafraid to make a complete ass of

49:00

yourself -- Mhmm. -- in order to

49:02

find. Right? Yeah.

49:03

Yeah. Absolutely definitely

49:05

times with directors where the director will

49:07

say, we got it and

49:07

we might say, can I just try something?

49:10

It's probably not

49:10

gonna be great, but can you just try something? And

49:12

and very often, it won't be great. Sometimes

49:16

you'll catch something. But yeah. You have to be in a place of being

49:18

able to I think it's -- Make a mess. -- I think it's

49:20

interesting because to actually I think we

49:22

all like to

49:24

be

49:24

cool. and

49:25

people think we're cool. But the

49:27

life of an artist is so

49:29

vulnerable -- Mhmm. -- like we we really

49:31

have to be

49:34

boldly unafraid to

49:35

just look like a complete idiot.

49:38

Yeah. And and that kind of safe place

49:40

that you can set in is is so

49:42

comfortable that you can do that sometimes. and nothing

49:44

better as an actor, I think. Then

49:46

when you get a character that

49:48

someone explained it once to me and I

49:50

thought it was brilliant. he said, well, you

49:52

bust the bubble. Yeah. And then

49:54

you threw that sort of

49:56

little cage, you pick yourself in the little

49:58

bubble.

49:59

And then you

50:00

you kind of you're just living as that

50:02

character in that place and

50:04

that is the greatest. And you can see it

50:06

when I was just watching him.

50:10

the first Austin powerhouse movie. Yeah. And you can tell McMyers

50:12

that that on that

50:14

where he just, like, got a character

50:17

till that -- Yeah. -- you could put say anything to

50:19

him and he could ref -- Yeah. -- he was

50:21

there. He was in that world, and it's just

50:23

the best. And it must be like that. with music

50:25

as well. It's very similar. And

50:27

I'm I am I've I've

50:29

been doing this long enough now, and I'm

50:31

I'm confident enough that I'm

50:34

upfront when people hire me where where I

50:36

say, I'm gonna try to scare

50:38

you with

50:38

my first ideas.

50:40

do not Do not Fire

50:41

me. But I my job here is

50:44

to come at you with something that is

50:46

uncomfortable -- Mhmm. -- pushes your

50:48

buttons. Yeah. It's just

50:50

splashing canvas. Yeah. We'll try a bunch of

50:52

different things. But if I come out of the gate

50:54

right away with something that's

50:56

safe and servative and what is to be expected of the

50:58

genre, then

50:59

we're dooming ourselves

51:00

to something that's ordinary. Yeah.

51:04

And you can always tell when someone goes like, oh, yeah, do that.

51:06

Or sometimes they're like,

51:08

I don't know. You know?

51:10

And the rings of power team were they

51:13

were all great. That's

51:14

funny. They were they were all fantastic.

51:16

And even as I even as I

51:17

described some of

51:20

my ideas, The

51:21

Numenor theme in

51:23

particular is outside of the

51:25

palette of Howard Gorf. Mhmm.

51:27

I I perhaps foolishly

51:29

expressed my enthusiasm for bringing in

51:32

Middle Eastern instruments so that it felt

51:35

Egyptian and Babylonian

51:38

and Mesopotam timing and maybe some ancient grease. And then I

51:40

realized too late that it's like,

51:42

uh-oh, I am scaring

51:44

people. And and one of the show owners

51:46

said, I don't I don't

51:48

know and I said,

51:50

I understand

51:50

this is scary and I want

51:52

you

51:52

to trust me that if I write

51:54

this and you don't like it, it's

51:56

not going in your show. You're not. Mhmm. But you gotta let me

51:58

do it. Mhmm. And he was

51:59

like, okay. Yeah. You gotta be

52:01

able to do those big swings, you know? Yeah.

52:04

And I

52:06

think what makes them TV

52:08

and film even harder, I think, from

52:10

musicians, as they put these

52:14

tempts on doing the tenth

52:16

music. And then the director,

52:18

the shoe runner,

52:20

whatever, gets

52:20

used to

52:21

hearing the tenth music. And she

52:24

have music. Just but for anybody that doesn't know what it

52:26

is, is, like, scores or songs

52:28

from other sources that

52:30

are placed temporarily into the edit just to see

52:32

if the edit works and to be able to

52:34

screen it for people. Yeah. But

52:36

it can

52:38

create a groove in your mind. Mhmm. I've seen a

52:40

lots with directors. Yeah. Yeah.

52:42

Well, they're just, like, just

52:45

just do something like the temp -- Mhmm. -- and it's

52:47

like it's braveheart or something. Yeah.

52:50

It it is a

52:52

reality

52:52

of of how film and

52:54

television are made. And sometimes, you

52:56

know, aspiring composers will come up

52:58

to me and that'll be a question. What do you

53:00

what do you

53:01

do when a direct or just like, that's

53:03

all they want is this, you know, please, they're like imploring me. What are your secrets?

53:05

And I and I always say the same thing.

53:07

Well, you give them the temp

53:08

and hope that your next job is

53:12

better. I I learned a trick from my my mentor

53:14

who was one

53:16

of the great legends of film music,

53:20

Elmer Bernstein. Oh, he scored the ten

53:22

commandments, the great escape,

53:24

the magnificent seven to

53:25

kill a mockingbird, ghostbusters,

53:29

animal house. Age of

53:32

innocence kept fear with Martin

53:34

Scorsese. He he had a he had a long career.

53:36

Wow. And he taught me when when I

53:38

was young. There's only one

53:40

question you ever need to ask a filmmaker. And

53:42

I use this almost every

53:44

day to this day.

53:47

He says, never let them talk about music. Don't

53:49

ever talk to them about music

53:51

in a in a well,

53:53

no. Actually, in any

53:55

in any situation. he says, all you need

53:57

to ask them is, what do you want the audience to

53:59

feel? to feel

54:01

That

54:02

question bypasses all

54:05

of the things that

54:06

are in the way of the core

54:08

truth. Any director whether

54:10

they are brilliant or completely amateur

54:14

has an answer for that question. Mhmm. Yeah.

54:16

And any frame of their footage --

54:18

Yeah. -- they didn't tell us, well,

54:20

the director's languages. That's that's

54:22

literally they are the avatar and

54:25

the advocate for the audience

54:27

at any time

54:27

they can say that. And when

54:30

you bypass

54:30

all the other linguistic

54:32

-- Yeah. -- road bumps about

54:34

music, and you say, what do you want the audience to feel?

54:36

Yeah. the

54:37

truth comes out. And then you can go, I got you. Yeah. You can speak the

54:39

same language at that point. Right? I'm a translator. Mhmm. Ultimately, my job is

54:41

to talk film with a filmmaker

54:43

and then go, like, turn

54:46

it into music and send it back. Mhmm. And say, did I translate

54:48

this correctly?

54:48

Mhmm. You know? So what

54:51

for

54:51

you other kind of

54:53

standout schools in movie history.

54:55

Well, the ones that you always come back to the the masterpiece.

54:57

I mean, I I mentioned one already. I

55:00

think Elmer Bernstein's to kill a

55:02

mockingbird -- Mhmm.

55:04

-- is so timeless. It it was written at a time

55:06

when film music in

55:08

the fifties. Film music before

55:10

the fifties was Western classical

55:14

music. I love King Kong and all

55:15

these other, you know, all these,

55:18

like,

55:18

Max Steiner scores and

55:22

and and And

55:23

yet, it all sounded like

55:25

bombastic classical western music. And

55:27

even to a

55:29

degree, like, should King Kong sound like bombastic Western

55:32

orchestral music? I don't know. That was the

55:33

norm. In the fifties, it started to change.

55:36

There are so many great

55:38

film scores,

55:40

but I

55:40

mean, I I guess, are you asking which ones are my personal

55:42

phase? Yeah. Personal is always the best because there's

55:44

obviously there's ones across the board that have

55:46

a degree of, like, obviously,

55:49

Joe's is a standout one for most people. Yeah. But

55:51

as someone who actually works in the business, well,

55:53

the ones that's continued to move you. You know,

55:56

the ones

55:58

that Konan the Barberian by Basopolaris is

55:59

just a master

56:00

class in epic writing -- Mhmm.

56:03

-- and doesn't ever

56:06

get enough praise -- Mhmm. -- you know, for for how

56:08

amazing it is. And,

56:10

I mean, there's so many, like,

56:14

Jerry Goldsmith's Star Trek: The Motion

56:16

Picture is another one that gets sort

56:18

of lost in the

56:20

in

56:20

the main title that

56:22

became

56:22

Star Trek The Next Generation.

56:24

It just sort of feels like, oh, that's that's Star

56:26

Trek. It's no. At the time, that

56:28

was this weird Robert Wise

56:31

movie. that got greenlit because of Star Wars, but it's nothing

56:33

like Star Wars. Mhmm. And and some of

56:35

the themes in it are

56:38

so just crushingly gorgeous. They have no right to be

56:40

that gorgeous. Mhmm. Says, you know, I mean,

56:42

anymore acone. My god,

56:44

cinema paradiso. And

56:46

the mission I mean, he didn't work in the in the

56:49

eighties. That was

56:49

Enno, kind of, like, he had done, like,

56:52

two hundred

56:53

spaghetti westerns And, I

56:56

mean, he was still at his peak

56:58

just, like, riding loop to loops around

57:00

everybody else. Yeah. Touchables is the other one. But

57:02

you know what I mean? Like, when you say any

57:04

more Kony, people think, and to

57:06

be fair. That's amazing. If he

57:08

only wrote that -- Yeah. -- he's in the

57:10

film score hall of fame forever

57:13

Yeah. But the the mission is one of the real

57:15

things. God in them. And it's like the

57:18

movie is not even that great. Yeah.

57:19

It's good,

57:22

but that's score. My god. The way he took the,

57:24

like,

57:24

he took the South American children's

57:26

choir and

57:27

the oboe that

57:29

the Jeremy Irons character played. Right? It was like -- Mhmm. --

57:32

the MOBO SOARS over this melody

57:34

with the with the South

57:36

American, like,

57:36

indigenous percussion. It's just like a master class that's gonna

57:39

do that. You know, we had Jakeda on.

57:41

I'm sure you know Jakeda right now. Of course. Yeah.

57:43

I was lucky enough to win with

57:45

them on last And so we we had him on and

57:47

we we were asking him about how he came up

57:49

with that kind of iconic theme

57:52

now from up from

57:54

Pixar's up and he said that

57:56

he was just humming it in the shower, and I

57:58

don't remember. Yeah. Yeah. He woke up

58:00

with it. And then he was like,

58:02

I'm not sure what that is where it's

58:04

coming from. Let's see if it hangs

58:06

around and then he said he got in the shower and it was still

58:08

hanging around and then he thought I'm gonna have to find out if that

58:10

is someone else's and then realized that

58:12

it wasn't someone else's and then

58:14

became this what one of the most standout kind of melodies from

58:16

Pixar, Canon. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

58:18

And I I love knowing he has

58:20

that same he

58:22

must have that

58:23

same insecurity I have, which is when

58:25

you get a great idea, you're like, well, this has

58:27

gotta be somebody else. Right. Right. There's no way I got

58:29

to win a new thing. Well,

58:32

someone through time must have thought

58:34

of putting these sex together. I

58:36

know. Yes. Well, that's like McCartney

58:38

with today.

58:40

Right? I mean, he he was walking around for months singing this

58:42

song called scrambled eggs that he thought, well,

58:44

this this can't be an original. This

58:47

must be someone else's. And then sooner

58:49

or later, everyone was like, no, we've never heard that before and then became yesterday. So

58:52

Wild. Amazing. If we can jump

58:54

back to another one of my

58:56

favorites of yours and a

58:58

one that, you know, for me

59:00

could have went really wrong

59:02

as

59:02

a Outlander. Because Talk

59:04

to me as a Scott about how

59:06

wrong that could have gone. But surely, you must

59:09

be a bit of a Scott yourself in the career.

59:11

Mhmm. I am a dick. Bear

59:13

on my The McCreery side of the family where

59:15

is your family for? I

59:18

think they go back to Ireland. Right.

59:20

But the McCreery's have been

59:22

in America since

59:24

the

59:25

eighteen eighties in

59:26

the American South. And the other

59:28

side of my family is Armenian --

59:31

Uh-huh. -- and actually my battle start days

59:33

I I wrote for Armenian du Duke. The Kalpakian

59:35

side of my family escaped

59:37

the genocide and came through Ellis Island

59:39

in the twenties. Right?

59:42

The Armenian De Duke and the

59:44

bag pipes were were both appear

59:46

early on in BattleStar Galacticica season

59:48

one. True. As my little DNA

59:52

thumbprint. I love it. But I grew up I

59:54

grew up loving Celtic music, and

59:56

I always went to the Highland games. There was a Highland

59:58

games near Bellingham, Washington where I

59:59

grew up. and I would just go there and I would hear there'd be forty

1:00:02

bagged by bands in competition. So

1:00:04

the drone, it it's like, you know,

1:00:06

acres and acres of bagged by bands

1:00:09

all droning on that b flat. And he's just

1:00:12

like, I would go to bed at night

1:00:14

with the drone stuck in my head. And even

1:00:16

in the morning, I'd wake up and I I don't have

1:00:18

perfect pitch. but I go is that b

1:00:20

flat still? I had to go down the piano? There it

1:00:22

is. Oh, you know what I mean? because you hear it

1:00:24

for so long. Well, that might

1:00:26

drive someone else insane. I'm in my

1:00:28

happy place, man. watching people

1:00:30

doing the the folk dances and the cable

1:00:32

toss. So

1:00:33

that part of

1:00:35

my DNA has always been something that

1:00:37

has sparked my musical interest. And that I think

1:00:39

was a reason that Ron Moore hired

1:00:42

me on Outlander. Right. But

1:00:44

I was

1:00:46

nervous about how the show

1:00:48

would be perceived by Scottish

1:00:50

people. I mean, it's written by a woman from

1:00:53

Arizona. Uh-huh. You know what I mean? Like,

1:00:55

it it I I completely understand

1:00:58

any skepticism about Americans

1:01:00

telling this

1:01:02

story. how I mean,

1:01:04

what did you think of

1:01:05

it? Well, for me, before

1:01:07

you were on it, needless to say, what was

1:01:09

your first impression? Well, III

1:01:12

kind of always worry when people

1:01:14

take Scottish sort of

1:01:16

culture and especially when it's sort

1:01:18

of historical

1:01:20

and oh, this is

1:01:22

just gonna go down that sort of shortbread,

1:01:24

ten sort of, you

1:01:27

know, fancy little kids. Remember, did

1:01:29

did you see the old Disney

1:01:31

movie, Robert Roy, the

1:01:33

highland rogue. Exactly. And then

1:01:35

Darby O'Gill and the little people, Sean Connery's

1:01:37

first movie. He's,

1:01:40

like, old depictions of like I remember the the the ice I

1:01:42

dug up the Rob Roy movie

1:01:44

after I saw the the Liam

1:01:46

Nissan one, which I did.

1:01:48

fucking awesome if I say Yeah. But Roy's, like, unhand

1:01:51

her y maeve. Like, you know,

1:01:53

he's so It's you

1:01:56

realize, like, And and I you

1:01:58

know, the Grieger, the artist I work with

1:01:59

sometimes on Scotland, on

1:02:01

things in Outlander, when he sings

1:02:03

the main title, you know, I I've learned a lot from him just

1:02:05

about I think he bristles at that -- Yeah. -- in a

1:02:07

way that as an American, I started doing to

1:02:10

it like,

1:02:12

that's kind of a shitty depiction. But I think correct

1:02:14

me if I'm wrong. I mean, is

1:02:15

that something that that you always felt was

1:02:18

unfair?

1:02:18

Yeah. There is a sort of it's

1:02:21

when it becomes too simplified, doesn't it

1:02:23

and too sort of cleaned up?

1:02:26

Like the music a lot

1:02:28

even back when I was growing up, there

1:02:30

was There was

1:02:31

a show called Fengamijig.

1:02:34

Yeah.

1:02:34

And they play these kind of Scottish

1:02:36

and and everybody's saying, oh, the

1:02:38

hell no. And it just

1:02:42

used to great because, you

1:02:44

know, we had had parties at home where

1:02:46

people would sing real gaelic and

1:02:48

real, yeah, Celtic songs and it

1:02:50

was magic. It was

1:02:52

real and it was about real things

1:02:55

and robot buns and

1:02:57

it was brilliant. And I was so glad when I heard your

1:02:59

music from the show that you you

1:03:02

got that, you know That's a hundred

1:03:04

percent Scotland

1:03:06

by the hundred percent of what I was going from. You know what I mean? You know what I

1:03:08

mean? What I was real

1:03:10

people singing about real things

1:03:12

and real

1:03:14

relationships But I do want to thank you for getting the music. Right? Oh,

1:03:16

man. That make it a real That that means the world.

1:03:18

And I make it a beauty. That's right. I

1:03:20

I was wondering if if people

1:03:24

Bear Macleary. You're right. You're one of us. It's so

1:03:26

great. Yeah. So while while we continue to talk

1:03:28

about music, should we should we

1:03:32

eat the world. Always should I we always eat the world

1:03:34

delicious because we do like to eat

1:03:36

our horobits after all.

1:03:38

Billing Dom, eat the world.

1:03:41

Did you bring this in there? Or did you You guys are

1:03:44

gonna surprise me. Okay. So we're we're gonna be

1:03:46

eating AAA lovely treat

1:03:48

from Israel. And

1:03:49

is this is this then afternoon

1:03:51

tea? This is dinner. This would be

1:03:54

afternoon tea. Yeah. This is afternoon tea. Yes.

1:03:56

Then comes Eddie. Here comes

1:03:58

Eddie and all eyes that are on him.

1:04:00

I'll read a little blood bear while Eddie.

1:04:02

Tell me he's welcome. Thank you. What we're

1:04:04

what we're gonna be be trying here. Thank you

1:04:06

very much. There. Oh, thanks, Eddie. Mhmm. It's called the Bambra

1:04:08

peanut butter snack. Bambra is

1:04:10

a snack made of peanut butter flavored puffed

1:04:14

maze, manufactured

1:04:15

the new package manufactured in Israel.

1:04:17

Bambor is one of the leading snack

1:04:18

foods produced in Saudi Arabia. Thanks,

1:04:20

Eddie. It's been marketed to nine

1:04:24

thank you. since nineteen sixty four with no decline in

1:04:26

sales, it says this might have come directly

1:04:28

from Bamba. Bamba

1:04:30

makes up for twenty five

1:04:33

percent of Israel products other domestic manufacturers

1:04:36

include, the butterfly, the

1:04:38

shush. It's also named the

1:04:40

bamboo snack because it sounds

1:04:42

like baby talk. What sounds like baby

1:04:44

talk? Bambour. Bambour. Bambour.

1:04:46

It's made from peanut butter flavored puff

1:04:48

maze, contains no preservatives

1:04:50

or food coloring. and is enriched with several vitamins,

1:04:53

but it does contain high amounts. What was that?

1:04:55

Wait. What was the first and peanut butter

1:04:57

flavored, puffed maze? Huffed maze,

1:04:59

I guess. The energy content is a hundred and sixty calories

1:05:02

per twenty eight grams, which is a

1:05:04

lock of these whey lights there. Bambour is

1:05:06

certified kosher.

1:05:08

by the badats, Jerusalem, the Washington Post, describe

1:05:10

it as cheese doodles without

1:05:12

the cheese. William, should we give it

1:05:14

a go? So this is very popular in Israel. Is anyone

1:05:18

out there? is around listening or watching to us. Hello. Sometimes the the

1:05:20

listeners will send us

1:05:22

these ideas releases from a listener.

1:05:24

Fantastic. Have a go. I've had

1:05:26

these type things before. I don't know

1:05:28

if it was strictly bummed up up. Lovely. That's fascinating because the

1:05:29

texture -- Mhmm. -- makes me think I'm eating a

1:05:32

cheese buff. Yeah. Exactly. I

1:05:34

never tasted What's

1:05:36

it as we would call a what's it in the UK, but

1:05:38

it's peanut butter. It's overwhelmingly peanut

1:05:40

butter extremely. I don't normally like

1:05:44

unless it's actually peanut

1:05:46

bar. I don't think light things. You don't like

1:05:48

peanut butter flavored things? No. Let's

1:05:50

explore this. You don't like a peanut Reese's

1:05:52

peanut butter a cup. No. Oh,

1:05:54

I do. I just like being

1:05:56

a nut butter. How about Reese's

1:05:58

pieces? No. Yeah. I

1:05:59

like them too.

1:06:00

Do you know who those people in England

1:06:02

think that because Reese's pieces are obviously put down

1:06:05

for ET to walk into the house. Most people

1:06:07

in Britain think that they're M and M's because

1:06:09

we

1:06:09

don't have Reese's pieces or we didn't really. We didn't

1:06:11

in the eighties. We might now. Fasc.

1:06:13

These

1:06:13

are lovely if you don't mind me saying

1:06:16

that?

1:06:16

I don't mind you

1:06:17

saying that. One day when I travel to

1:06:19

Israel, I will be on

1:06:22

the lookout. For

1:06:22

the Bamba? The Bamba snack. I'm gonna continue here, guys. In

1:06:24

the advertising for the Bamba, it says Bamba's advertising

1:06:26

features the baby Bamba character

1:06:29

heavily. Baby Bamba. Bamba is a

1:06:32

cutting cutter depicted wearing a blue

1:06:34

diaper or nappy. He has one tooth and he's

1:06:36

bald except for one ginger girl in front of

1:06:38

his head. In honor of International Women's Day two thousand twenty,

1:06:40

a female baby bambour was introduced the

1:06:42

Female Wet Baby Bambour, wears a

1:06:44

pink t shirt, and has

1:06:46

pigtails. In March two thousand twenty one, the

1:06:48

baseball team in New York Knicks announced

1:06:50

its partnership with this

1:06:52

particular crisp. Wow, you

1:06:54

go New York Knicks. say what? Don't I

1:06:56

won't be long till I'm looking like the baby baby

1:06:58

burn. You'll need to look after me. I love

1:07:00

that. Well, just just one tooth. No

1:07:02

hair. One. There's no hair. I don't know how you're

1:07:04

gonna grow ginger

1:07:06

hair. But you're working on it. No. I'm Scott. You

1:07:08

Every so Yeah. Every so

1:07:10

often, Billy will grow just one single

1:07:12

hair out of the tip of his nose.

1:07:15

Just so that a half. Get quite long as well. Wow. And don't

1:07:17

always tell me. No. Don't tell me. Look at it. It's amazing. It's

1:07:19

amazing. It will get long.

1:07:22

Yeah. For anyone who's just listening, Bear

1:07:24

McCreery has wonderful long hair.

1:07:26

That's true. I always had

1:07:30

that. I started to grow it out

1:07:32

about twenty years ago and I've kept it at

1:07:34

shoulder length until about

1:07:36

twenty fifteen when

1:07:38

I just decided to never cut it

1:07:39

again. Wow. I just wanna because that you know,

1:07:41

so many people grew their heart in the in the

1:07:43

pandemic, but I had already

1:07:46

I had already done it. And then when

1:07:48

I was at the at

1:07:50

the Rings of Power Premier, only

1:07:53

then I feel so dumb confessing this. Only

1:07:56

then that

1:07:56

I realize everyone wear wears wigs in the

1:07:58

show. Mhmm. And I

1:07:59

do. Everyone, they

1:08:00

they help these incredible hair pieces

1:08:03

even You know, actors, I'm staring at their face eight hours a

1:08:05

day for a year. And then I'm looking

1:08:07

around something looking like, I look

1:08:09

like I'm cosplaying I mean,

1:08:11

like, dual I I know

1:08:14

exactly. Like like, it's like, who's this fan

1:08:16

boy over here that

1:08:19

hey, Aragorn. You know? These are fantastic. Yeah,

1:08:21

I'm digging these. Now guys, you might be thinking out there,

1:08:23

the shape, the consistency,

1:08:24

the

1:08:27

lightness, How is this thing manufactured? Can you can you

1:08:29

tell me Shall I tell you?

1:08:31

Yeah. Corn

1:08:31

grits are popped

1:08:33

under high pressure, turning

1:08:35

into a long white lines of

1:08:37

poft, unflavored bamboo. The

1:08:38

lines are then cut into nuggets and then move to a

1:08:40

drying chamber where

1:08:43

they are air baked This

1:08:45

is so appetizing. Just a moment. Twenty seconds. Twenty seconds. Just plain and

1:08:47

your dogs gives them that lovely crispy taste. Is it, though?

1:08:49

Yeah. Twenty and

1:08:51

your dog. Yeah. The peanut

1:08:53

butter imported from Argentina. Mhmm. Is added at the end a worker stands

1:08:56

on a step above

1:08:58

a rotating drum and pours

1:09:01

a picture of liquid peanut butter into each container.

1:09:03

What's his name? Hemorhardt. It's called Juan.

1:09:07

Right. Carry on. As

1:09:09

the drums

1:09:10

turn, the nuggets are coated. The hot bambler is then moved along a conveyor belt

1:09:16

to cool. before packaging. No after packaging

1:09:18

because it could damage the package. It's ripping off. It'll

1:09:20

stick to the sides. Brilliant. That's a

1:09:22

little bit of information about that. Yeah.

1:09:26

Let's score them. Flavor out of ten.

1:09:28

We score out of ten here. You can add

1:09:31

a decimal point if you'd like. It could be

1:09:33

six point four, it could be eight point

1:09:35

nine. but the flavor has to be out of ten. And

1:09:37

while you're thinking about that, Bea? Mhmm.

1:09:39

How many hours have

1:09:42

you written of music for the Rings of Power. Mhmm. I

1:09:44

wrote nine hours of

1:09:46

music for eight hours

1:09:48

of footage. Wow.

1:09:51

Where's the other row? It's the

1:09:53

themes. Alright. There we go. Yeah. strip. Nine hours of

1:09:55

music. And I did that in nine

1:09:59

wow months. Wow. Yeah. That's an hour

1:10:00

a month. It's an hour a month. It's an hour

1:10:02

a month. Wait. How much is that a day though? Look at

1:10:04

the math. Look at his math mainly

1:10:07

trying to work that out. How

1:10:10

can you earn out? Well, see see

1:10:12

let's see thirty days in a month. Yeah.

1:10:14

Let's see. It's about sixty. Sixty minutes.

1:10:17

About two minutes, two minutes

1:10:19

in an

1:10:20

hour? Two minutes. After the song, I

1:10:22

don't know. I'm not I've never.

1:10:27

it is it is doable in that it was

1:10:29

done. It was dumb. It's it's

1:10:31

too long that you

1:10:33

would think wouldn't Yeah. When I when

1:10:35

I did that song for the whole, but,

1:10:37

you know, the the last good bio went down

1:10:40

in New Zealand, was

1:10:42

supposed to be there for, like, a week. I was there for about two months. Yeah. Getting things back and forth. I couldn't get

1:10:44

him out. No. I couldn't. I was

1:10:46

I got a hotel room for free.

1:10:50

It was lovely, amazing. Mhmm. But I

1:10:53

was just thinking there that,

1:10:55

you know, themes in the world

1:10:57

and you're talking about how it's

1:10:59

your remember first that song to held sure. I was

1:11:01

shitting it. Mhmm. You know, that he would

1:11:04

just say this is awful. It's rubbish.

1:11:06

And he rule he wrote back and

1:11:08

said, they loved

1:11:10

it. He says, but there's no minor seventh chords in Lord of And

1:11:13

I

1:11:16

was like, didn't

1:11:16

even know I was playing a minor. There

1:11:18

was a couple in the guitar. No. No. No. No. You put a minor hold

1:11:21

on. I can't believe Before

1:11:23

I agreed to the center you.

1:11:26

I didn't realize you put a mind I'm sorry. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Why why was no one telling

1:11:28

me this? It's outrageous. If you

1:11:30

wanna leave if you wanna leave

1:11:35

right now. No. No. You can just leave my gosh. Billy, because

1:11:37

that hasn't awful. Look, it's wrong

1:11:39

with you. Oh.

1:11:42

I don't know where. and a bed alarm just won, a bed it was over and

1:11:44

over again. I didn't even know there was

1:11:46

one. And then, you know, it's disgraceful.

1:11:48

Utterly. Oh, god. Let's

1:11:50

change the subject. He's left gonna

1:11:52

stink in the air now. Alright. Scores out and

1:11:54

I'm gonna get going up. I like this taste, but

1:11:57

I would give

1:12:00

a slight critique here, which is that I want a

1:12:02

little bit of salt. I like the peanut butter. I want a little bit of salt in my peanut butter, so I'm gonna

1:12:04

demote it by a point

1:12:06

and I'm gonna give it seven

1:12:09

would have given it any bit

1:12:11

more so. I used to go up your

1:12:11

host on You'd have jar of

1:12:15

peanut butter with chilies

1:12:18

in it. Yeah. I made it myself, and then you

1:12:20

just eat it by the spoonful. I would dig

1:12:22

out the peanut butter into a bowl, mold

1:12:25

and salt, Cayenne pepper, paprika,

1:12:28

chili flakes, Garam

1:12:31

masala,

1:12:31

salt and pepper. coconut

1:12:33

oil. Mix it all up. Put it back in the jar. I

1:12:35

lived on that. But you also did this because your friend only

1:12:37

likes peanut butter

1:12:40

in butter form. Yeah. That's

1:12:42

very thoughtful of you. Yeah. Yeah. I'm here for Billy. I'd I'd no like to change that, because I

1:12:45

love these. Yeah.

1:12:48

The tastiness. Wow. This is not

1:12:50

changing your worldview on peanut butter. What was this? Flavor. Mhmm. Nine

1:12:52

point two. Yeah.

1:12:55

Love it. You'd like take

1:12:57

that back home tonight. Oh, it's almost empty. Mhmm.

1:12:59

Bares going through it. Like, there's no there's no intersect around, man. What about you,

1:13:01

Bares? Goes out of

1:13:02

ten. I'm gonna give it

1:13:04

i'm gonna get it I'm gonna give it an

1:13:07

eight. Mhmm. And the reason I'm gonna give it

1:13:09

an eight is that

1:13:10

almost like like you were saying dumb

1:13:12

-- Mhmm. -- I'm so used to peanut

1:13:14

butter being in combination with other things. Mhmm.

1:13:16

I wish I had some chocolate -- Oh. -- to

1:13:18

wrap this around. Like, can you imagine like a

1:13:20

malt ball? Mhmm. Like, if there was like chocolate

1:13:22

covering -- Mhmm. -- on this peanut butter

1:13:25

light fluffy thing. Mhmm. You could

1:13:27

invent So

1:13:28

it's almost Is it fair to

1:13:30

demote a a good flavor because What else do you wish was there? Yeah. Thank you very much. Yeah.

1:13:33

Alright. The next

1:13:36

category. Aesthetics. How

1:13:38

does it look? How does it look? What do you think

1:13:40

that it looks a little bit like a grub, like

1:13:42

a like a beetle lava? Like a dragon.

1:13:45

somebody would eat in one of

1:13:47

those, like, styrofoam for sure. This

1:13:49

is all quite negative, the end

1:13:51

of a cigarette. Right.

1:13:55

What if someone loves all those things? You know, we aren't saying We

1:13:57

are negative. Right? Okay. I'm putting negative because Yeah.

1:13:59

You're

1:13:59

you're you're putting vibes out. I feel

1:14:02

bad about that though. It's not the most

1:14:04

attractive. if chip ever seen. But

1:14:06

Yeah. I like it. It's slightly strangeness of it. I'm gonna give it A5I was gonna say was gonna

1:14:11

say six. Oh. Ever

1:14:13

the optimist. Yep. Now, Billy, your

1:14:15

favorite category. The fatal category is usefulness. How

1:14:17

useful is this

1:14:20

found useful? Exactly.

1:14:22

But yeah. It's a brand Let

1:14:24

me see. For instance, you had friends coming over. They

1:14:26

weren't invaded. They just came through your house and you

1:14:28

said,

1:14:29

Oh, you guys hungry and they went, yeah, we are hungry and you went to

1:14:31

your cupboard and went to hear what's on it. Yeah. What have

1:14:32

you

1:14:35

got this week? There's two pounds of

1:14:38

flour. Mhmm. There's two packets of these. There's a couple eggs in the fridge, some cream,

1:14:41

two green pings

1:14:44

of milk, and some hundreds and thousands toppants.

1:14:46

What's a lot of dairy produce you have? But that's

1:14:48

all you've got

1:14:51

in the house. Mhmm. I

1:14:52

said, you could you

1:14:54

do

1:14:55

something? Could you could you make? Could you do? Oh. the

1:14:59

eggs. I'm I'm wondering if there's a way to to powder these

1:15:01

into some sort of At

1:15:04

all large Omelette with a

1:15:06

yeah. It was some scrambled egg.

1:15:09

So you sprinkle this on? I don't know. How are they

1:15:11

useful? I don't know. I can't think. I mean, you it's gonna

1:15:13

crumble into a powder, but then what do you do

1:15:15

with that powder? Could you Could

1:15:19

you crumble that

1:15:19

onto popcorn or something? Not a bad

1:15:22

idea.

1:15:22

That's a nice idea. I didn't

1:15:25

see you had popcorn. Oh, yeah. Sorry. I do it

1:15:27

my house. Not a great fan of that. That's the only

1:15:29

thing that could because it's a savory

1:15:31

thing. It's not gonna really

1:15:33

go sweet. Is it? No. I said, well, Did you put it on

1:15:35

a cake, maybe? a cake? On ice cream. Could

1:15:38

you crumble it on the ice

1:15:40

cream? No. That's so fun. But

1:15:42

you actually use it as packing

1:15:44

peanuts. Could you Actually, yeah. If

1:15:46

you say it's a Jabber j egg or something really valuable -- Yeah. -- put it in the box. You realize you don't have

1:15:48

any you've gotta ship it out

1:15:50

right away. Mhmm. I'll I'll let you

1:15:54

happened a little up, Brian. I'm the FedEx man.

1:15:56

See, just It's a

1:15:59

number of people you're very

1:16:01

nice. So as shipping peanuts, you're

1:16:03

saying it's quite useless. There's no variations in

1:16:05

this category. Zero It's a zero in the correct.

1:16:07

Yeah. Okay. But I've

1:16:10

no made the border. So

1:16:13

so you can see what it's like. Yeah. Versailles, you got

1:16:15

all of you. You know what else I'm thinking? Hearing

1:16:17

that on a

1:16:20

close mic. Yeah. Maybe some

1:16:22

Because that ASMR some ASMR, you know, like, people like that, don't they?

1:16:25

you know like people like that don't know

1:16:28

Oh, it

1:16:29

sounds like you're in a wrong

1:16:31

character. That's been mackshady. It's lingering. Yes. Really? Come

1:16:34

on. But but but

1:16:36

but a bamblery, eats a bambler.

1:16:38

Just enjoy those ladies and gentlemen. Nice that. Who's the

1:16:40

market for that? Yes. Nice that. Do

1:16:42

that for ten hours? People love them.

1:16:46

Although

1:16:46

our lessons don't, we had a vote and they

1:16:48

hit it, we'll be too close to make sure

1:16:50

that there are fifty five percent of

1:16:53

them hate today. That's a slim majority.

1:16:55

Yeah. Majority. Forty five are okay with

1:16:57

it.

1:16:57

I'm gonna say in terms of That's

1:17:00

almost smooth. In

1:17:02

terms of versatility -- Yeah.

1:17:04

-- how useful it is. I'm gonna give

1:17:06

it two and a half.

1:17:07

Two and a

1:17:08

half. That's not very good. I'm

1:17:10

I'm feeling very optimistic today,

1:17:12

very, you know. It's nice having you

1:17:14

understood you all. Is it, no. I

1:17:17

don't give a shit. I love

1:17:19

that. I in fact, I want

1:17:19

to play the baby and and the ads.

1:17:22

Yeah. You can you can write the music

1:17:24

for for a ride a new

1:17:26

jingle. Yeah. As a coat, bamboo.

1:17:29

Bamba. And

1:17:29

it could be the baby bamba.

1:17:31

The baby bamba. We'll raise the

1:17:34

wait the baby bamba. Belly

1:17:37

Boyd the baby bomber. So right there. duration then.

1:17:39

That's fantastic. Mhmm. And I'm gonna give it 6II

1:17:40

think

1:17:43

I could paint something. I could paint something to do with it.

1:17:46

You're the good cop in this scenario,

1:17:47

I see. Bear. What do

1:17:49

you think when I'm rubbing

1:17:52

my breasts? Don't vote on

1:17:54

that. No. I understand. Yeah. Yeah.

1:17:57

No comment

1:17:59

on that. Right. Although, maybe

1:18:01

it's like a massage tool. Like, you can crunch it up, and I'm

1:18:03

trying to, like, oh, it's a text It's exfoliant.

1:18:05

That's what it is.

1:18:07

Oh, they go. I'm

1:18:09

changing, mainly seven point five. There you go. What do you think, Bill? I think it could work. Massage it

1:18:12

into the muscles. Give

1:18:13

it give it

1:18:14

a score to attend then. For me,

1:18:18

for me useless.

1:18:19

Well, I wanted to ship

1:18:20

my Faberge egg, and I can't. So

1:18:22

it's got zero. It's absolutely zero.

1:18:25

It's not gonna stop me. Yeah. It's done. It can only do

1:18:27

one thing. Although, I guess, and you're hypothetical

1:18:30

with

1:18:30

the guests that came over, I would

1:18:34

do a little omelet and use it as garnish, I guess. Yeah.

1:18:36

Stella Zero. I mean, a peanut

1:18:38

aroma as a water point before.

1:18:40

I don't know. But you did

1:18:42

also say these are people that I

1:18:45

wasn't

1:18:45

expecting or didn't even want -- Yeah. -- come over. So let's if I

1:18:47

don't want

1:18:47

them to come over, but probably want them to leave.

1:18:50

Yeah. And

1:18:51

wait a minute. So then

1:18:53

then it's a ten. Perfect. because then you bring it out, I would cover the omelet with this.

1:18:55

Would you like a peanut butter omelet? Yeah.

1:18:58

We'll see you next

1:19:00

week. Yeah. A peanut

1:19:02

butter sundry. A peanut butter dust omelette. Yeah. I'll tell you, well, bear. We could talk

1:19:05

all day

1:19:08

with you. great. Or should we finish with a

1:19:10

song? No. Can I finish? Can I ask one question? Well, alright. I'll allow. Because there's something that we

1:19:12

always like to do because, you know,

1:19:14

in case a listener, maybe a young listener,

1:19:18

as maybe thinking about becoming

1:19:20

a composer or doing

1:19:22

film music or TV

1:19:25

music. how did you get from

1:19:27

a thirteen year old and in your room, written music

1:19:32

everyday to being the guy that

1:19:34

did battle starter collected. Got where what happened in there that made that part of

1:19:36

it? Yeah. Good question.

1:19:38

That is a good question.

1:19:42

I

1:19:43

love what I do. Yep. And

1:19:45

I started doing it all day every

1:19:47

day. And I and i

1:19:50

when I was about thirteen realized that I

1:19:52

I just wanted to do it all the time --

1:19:54

Uh-huh. -- and I would be okay if I

1:19:56

lived under a bridge, if it meant I got

1:19:58

to write music. And when I got to

1:20:00

college, I just found people that

1:20:02

were doing student films. Anybody

1:20:05

that had anything that needed music.

1:20:07

I just I was thrilled to do it. And I built

1:20:09

up a group of people

1:20:10

that felt the same

1:20:13

way. We had no

1:20:15

money you know, I would I would scrunch together enough money to get

1:20:17

pizza for the orchestra session. So

1:20:19

I would, you know, conduct

1:20:21

my score and also I

1:20:23

would write for whoever was available. I

1:20:25

called every musician I knew. And so if I was doing a student film, I'd go, okay, we got

1:20:27

three clarinets, a a

1:20:30

snare drum, and a

1:20:32

cello. that's what

1:20:34

you're gonna get. You know what

1:20:36

I mean? Great. And I just kept

1:20:38

doing that and there was a point

1:20:41

early on on BattleStar in the first

1:20:43

season that I realized that nothing had changed, but

1:20:45

I was finally getting paid a little bit, just

1:20:47

a little bit. and

1:20:50

that I was still just waking up

1:20:52

every day doing what I love to

1:20:54

do. And I think that then

1:20:57

my actual, like, no joke advice

1:20:59

is If you love what you

1:20:59

do and that's why you are collaborating

1:21:01

with people, people want to work

1:21:03

with you. They you

1:21:05

wanna

1:21:06

be that type of person that's

1:21:08

excited and comes into the room

1:21:11

eager to contribute and and just excited to get to do your part of

1:21:16

it.

1:21:16

And if you are

1:21:18

even

1:21:18

you don't even have to be talented. The only thing you have to do is work hard at it. Mhmm. You know

1:21:20

what I mean? The people that put

1:21:22

in the work, I don't think I'm

1:21:26

supremely talented. Oh, you are. Well, I

1:21:28

think I put in a lot of hours. Yeah.

1:21:30

Let me put in this. My my talent

1:21:33

could definitely be my work ethic,

1:21:35

you know, that I just put

1:21:36

in the hours. And I love doing

1:21:38

it, and and I feel like that benefited me so much. And III

1:21:42

still like to think that I walk into any project, like,

1:21:44

wow, this is cool. Let's do this, you guys.

1:21:46

You know what I mean? Yeah. And sometimes

1:21:48

I sometimes I'm gonna make money,

1:21:51

sometimes I I won't. I You know,

1:21:53

I'm just gonna I'm just here to, like, have fun doing what I

1:21:55

wanna do. Mhmm. And if I don't get to do that, I'll I'll go towards someone

1:21:57

who will let

1:21:59

me

1:21:59

do that. Well, it's been

1:22:01

fantastic, everyone. I think we don't even

1:22:03

think if we've got

1:22:03

a musician with a Don't

1:22:06

think we can end with a

1:22:08

song. So we we we

1:22:10

sometimes well, we often answer, I guess, and sometimes they say, no. To song

1:22:12

that they think is funky. Now

1:22:14

just so everyone out there knows,

1:22:18

doesn't mean need to be funky in terms of, like,

1:22:21

you know, Earthwind and fire, funkeel.

1:22:23

Bobby Womach, funky. Sure. It's

1:22:25

it's does it move you? Yeah. You

1:22:27

know, moats aren't gonna be funky. Yeah. You know? Is it

1:22:29

funky? Throws can be funky? Did it get

1:22:31

you going? Did you did you feel

1:22:34

something? Did you get your juices going?

1:22:36

Listen. Do you want to

1:22:38

introduce this song to us and to texted me

1:22:41

about

1:22:41

this

1:22:42

and I thought, like, This

1:22:45

definition

1:22:45

of funky means that when you hear it, you have to stop what you're doing.

1:22:48

Mhmm.

1:22:48

And the

1:22:51

the music just

1:22:52

grabs hold

1:22:54

of your body and you go

1:22:56

to another place and it takes

1:22:58

you there. Love it. That's what that's

1:23:01

what good music does for me and there's

1:23:03

so many pieces of music. And it's

1:23:04

actually one we've already alluded

1:23:06

to in our conversation.

1:23:08

The piece that I

1:23:10

thought of was from

1:23:11

Jerry Goldsmith's score to Star Trek:

1:23:13

The Motion Picture -- Mhmm. --

1:23:15

Ilia's theme, which

1:23:19

is so Beautiful. It's so it

1:23:19

no reason to be so beautiful.

1:23:22

And it's like Jerry Goldsmith is

1:23:24

just

1:23:25

like riding

1:23:28

circles around what that character needs, but he's

1:23:30

giving her all his depth. And it's not even a theme that would sort of go on

1:23:32

into I'm

1:23:33

sorry. Am I getting

1:23:35

too into star trick No. No.

1:23:38

No. You can never get to an stop

1:23:40

track. Please don't don't mess with me, bro. No. No.

1:23:42

Honestly. Okay. Look at this stop track poster. There you

1:23:44

are.

1:23:45

there are ya Yeah. So,

1:23:48

like, to me, this is one of

1:23:50

those, like, deep sort of space nine.

1:23:53

Yeah. Indeed. Space nine. it's not something that

1:23:55

became part of the popular lexicon of Star Trek, the way

1:23:58

the main title did from that movie

1:23:59

that became this theme for TNT.

1:24:02

Mhmm. It's like this it's almost

1:24:04

like buried

1:24:05

at the bottom of Star Trek

1:24:07

lore in between the original series and the Rathecon. When the only thing

1:24:09

else was this weird

1:24:12

movie that

1:24:12

is good or

1:24:15

not. I don't know. But that score is good. even

1:24:16

buried in that score is

1:24:18

that theme that is just crushingly

1:24:23

gorgeous. And when it when it comes on if

1:24:26

it comes on my Spotify or I'm

1:24:28

walking on earbuds or or whatever I'm doing, I stop. I

1:24:30

have to I have to stop what I'm doing and,

1:24:32

like, just experience

1:24:34

it. Very cool. Well, Eddie, have you got that? Have you got Elliott's name? Yes, sir. I just got it.

1:24:37

Let's have

1:24:40

a list

1:24:49

Chelly start

1:24:51

with the tune.

1:24:52

kelly start with the to

1:24:58

Little quote

1:25:03

of the

1:25:06

theme. but back to the good stuff.

1:25:09

Listen to

1:25:11

the

1:25:11

counterline. Moving up and

1:25:14

down, like, a

1:25:18

wave. So

1:25:22

did that

1:25:23

end up becoming the

1:25:25

theme

1:25:26

tune to the next

1:25:29

generation? No. No. No. It only exists in

1:25:31

the movie. So how does it but it does There's a character named Helia Yeah. -- is is in

1:25:33

that movie. Why might would you

1:25:35

tell us, Billy? You Well,

1:25:39

yeah, there's there's another there's another theme

1:25:42

in it, which was the main

1:25:44

theme that then became

1:25:46

you actually heard the horns

1:25:48

that becomes the next generation. Yeah. That's

1:25:51

from this movie. Right. It

1:25:54

was one of several

1:25:57

themes that Goldsmith wrote that

1:25:59

but but it's that other

1:26:00

one. Ilias

1:26:03

Themes is

1:26:04

so gorgeous.

1:26:07

And I

1:26:07

I mean, it's like my body

1:26:09

tenses up because I can't even

1:26:11

handle how beautiful it is.

1:26:13

as in music, weird like that. It's incredible. And because there's basically four notes

1:26:15

there -- Yeah. -- and it's just as you see, the count or mail

1:26:17

of days is there. Yeah. Just the way

1:26:20

that it's the

1:26:23

the the upper strings are floating up

1:26:26

and down and

1:26:29

then the belly that

1:26:31

are normally down low taking the melody.

1:26:33

Oh, it's so

1:26:33

beautiful. Then it just builds and builds and it's just

1:26:36

like just

1:26:38

jaw droppingly beautiful. Mhmm.

1:26:41

Yeah. And she's a sympathetic character in that in that movie. Yes.

1:26:43

But this is where this is where we

1:26:45

can we can

1:26:48

talk track I think the

1:26:50

the movie itself is controversial. Some people love it. Some people hate it. I love it as a historical oddity.

1:26:52

That you just have to

1:26:54

remember that there was no wrath

1:26:57

of Khan and T and G. It

1:27:00

was just the show that had arguably failed. It's

1:27:02

the Yeah. It's the cartoon that had

1:27:04

failed. and

1:27:06

this weird movie that kind of failed, but they were all spectacular in

1:27:08

their own way.

1:27:11

Mhmm. And Goldsmith this

1:27:14

is where honestly, I think he saw Star Wars come out and was like, bro, I can do that. Because it's

1:27:18

like, did

1:27:21

you're

1:27:21

you're you're obviously looking at Meghan, this character must

1:27:23

be one of the most immortal characters in a film. Like in doctor

1:27:28

Gevago? No. No.

1:27:28

She's like a weird alien

1:27:30

that turns into a robot and turns into a robot that turns

1:27:34

into a robot has vaginal connotations.

1:27:35

it's so weird. Mhmm. It's

1:27:38

so weird. Sorry. It's weird.

1:27:41

There's there's, like,

1:27:44

alien anuses

1:27:44

and all kinds of weird shitness. It's true though. No. I

1:27:46

feel like I'm gonna watch this first. I mean, Spok has to go through the orifice

1:27:48

that is, like, it's very

1:27:51

sexual and super weird. But

1:27:54

what I'm saying is Goldsmith went uh-huh. Uh-huh. Star

1:27:56

Wars had just come out and he was like, I can

1:27:59

do that. I'll do that.

1:27:59

Exactly. So

1:28:02

he wrote a soaring epic theme And then love theme like,

1:28:04

man, only he could have written, or is it a

1:28:06

love theme? I don't I don't know. It's just

1:28:10

this thing that floats above

1:28:11

the movie. Yeah. Yeah. That's why for me, it is a piece of

1:28:13

music outside of the context of

1:28:15

the film. Mhmm. But that's the

1:28:17

absurdity of it. Right? Then it's

1:28:19

like, Jerry Goldsmith wrote

1:28:21

something that the movie didn't need. You

1:28:23

could argue, like, didn't even make sense in the context of the movie.

1:28:24

Like, it's so emotional.

1:28:26

Mhmm. But he was a workaholic

1:28:31

and I believe a genius. And he just he's the kind of guy that

1:28:33

could he would he didn't save it for something

1:28:35

else. He's like, I'm gonna put that melody there. Yeah.

1:28:37

And then the next thing that comes along, you

1:28:39

know, the next movie he

1:28:41

did was like alien probably. I'm gonna do that. I'll do yeah. You know what? I'll do another

1:28:43

one. And Elmer Bernstein was his generation. He was

1:28:46

like that too. He would sit at the

1:28:48

piano and

1:28:51

when I was organizing scores in his studio, and he

1:28:53

would just kind of sit down and, like,

1:28:55

mess around when he had five minutes.

1:28:57

And then I'd look at him and

1:28:59

go, Elmer, what what score was that?

1:29:01

He's like, I

1:29:02

don't know. I'm just messing around. It's it's nothing. And you realize these guys that

1:29:04

condition themselves

1:29:05

and train themselves, you

1:29:07

know, to just output,

1:29:10

what

1:29:10

we would say is genius work -- Mhmm. -- which goes back to what I

1:29:11

was saying earlier about

1:29:14

as a consumer you you

1:29:17

worship it. It becomes a deity. Like, oh

1:29:19

my god. That's so genius. Is it genius or is it just at that

1:29:22

point in his life what Jerry Goldsmith could do on Tuesday? Yeah. That's what

1:29:24

it actually

1:29:27