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code again, GenY24. Subject

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to change, terms apply. How

2:08

you doing

2:16

tonight, Aaron?

2:28

Doing good, Justin.

2:30

How are you? I'm all right.

2:33

We have any announcements going on? Just

2:36

that people are interested, I still have

2:38

my cute little children's book. If

2:41

you have little ones or need a

2:43

gift for a little one, Peek-a-boop is

2:45

what I recommend. I wrote it and

2:48

got a lot of help from the

2:50

illustrator. If you want to

2:52

know more, head out to genypod.com. You

2:54

can order the book from Barnes &

2:56

Noble or Amazon, of course. And

2:59

then, of course, I also have Marooned,

3:01

which is my other podcast I've been

3:03

working on with Jack Luna. So if

3:05

you're looking for more content and you're

3:07

saying Generation Y and the peripheral and

3:09

whoever else you listen to, you're caught

3:11

up, check out Marooned. I think

3:13

you're really going to like it. We've been hitting our

3:15

stride, I think. Yeah, and if

3:18

you haven't gone out and checked out the

3:20

peripheral lately, it's going strong right now. Throughout

3:22

an episode, I'm about to put out another

3:24

one here in about 10 days. Excellent.

3:28

Aaron, we've covered some cases in the

3:30

past, and I don't want to give

3:32

too much away here, but where

3:35

families have disappeared, people have

3:38

been murdered, and I've

3:40

heard law enforcement or

3:42

people suggest that it was

3:44

a roving band

3:46

of Satanists or witchcraft

3:49

or some kind of

3:51

cult or something like that. And

3:53

I always just think, come

3:56

on, can we just base our

3:58

investigation in reality? I

4:00

won't be saying that about tonight's case. So

4:02

what are we talking about tonight? Tonight

4:05

we're talking about a case

4:07

that involves two murder victims

4:09

known as the Harris County

4:11

Doze who would later be

4:13

identified as a young couple. And

4:16

in a shocking turn of events

4:18

after investigators were speaking with families,

4:21

they found out that there was

4:23

a third family member who hadn't

4:25

been found was missing, which was

4:27

their young daughter, Halle Marie. So

4:30

this took place January 6, 1981 in Harris

4:33

County. The

4:36

sheriff's department received a call from a

4:38

man who said his German Shepherd had

4:40

discovered human remains. The

4:43

dog came down the family's driveway

4:46

with a partially decomposed arm in

4:48

its mouth. That would

4:50

be quite an alarming scene. So

4:53

it was January 12, they

4:56

found two bodies often in a

4:58

wooded area off Wallaceville Road in

5:00

Houston. The area wasn't

5:02

developed at the time. It

5:04

was marked by a fence and

5:07

a dirt path leading to a

5:09

communications tower. So very

5:11

remote. It was the bodies

5:13

of a young man and woman. The

5:16

man was beaten, bound, and gagged. He

5:18

died from a skull fracture. The

5:21

woman appeared to have been strangled. The

5:23

victims didn't have any clothing on.

5:26

A pair of green gym shorts and

5:28

a bloody towel were found nearby.

5:31

The girl looked as young as 15. She

5:35

had brownish blonde hair and a ponytail.

5:37

The boy was believed to be anywhere

5:39

from 18 to 25 years old. So

5:44

very young. The

5:46

investigators believe that the couple had been

5:48

killed between December 1980 and January

5:51

1981, but the authorities

5:53

didn't know the identities of the two.

5:56

They couldn't identify them. So originally

5:58

they were known as the Hair of the Dead. Harris County

6:00

Dose. And of course,

6:02

when we're talking about this

6:05

area being in Houston, this

6:07

takes place in Texas. This

6:09

lasted for about 40 years, this

6:11

mystery. And in July of 2011,

6:14

the Harris County Medical Examiner's Office

6:16

exhumed the bodies to extract DNA.

6:20

Initially, it was both Harris

6:22

County Dose and Romeo and

6:24

Juliet. I've even heard that

6:26

because they died together that

6:28

was reported in some of

6:30

the newspapers. But

6:32

it was weird that you

6:34

have these two bodies. And

6:37

I understand this is the 80s,

6:39

so we don't have the DNA

6:42

or forensics that we have today,

6:44

but it just went unsolved. Now,

6:47

it'll make a little bit more sense why

6:49

they didn't have a lot of leads, because

6:51

you would just think, well, who went missing

6:53

in that area at the time? Couldn't

6:56

they just start matching up all

6:58

of the missing persons reports, any

7:00

couples? Because couples going missing is

7:02

a lot more rare than, say,

7:05

an individual or a runaway. So you would

7:07

think that there would be some sort of

7:09

hint here. Well, and it's

7:11

context too, because when you're talking about missing

7:13

persons, like you said, you would think they

7:15

could just look up who was missing and

7:17

then say, oh, wow, there's a couple that's

7:19

missing. We found a couple that gives us

7:21

a lead. But sometimes,

7:23

people don't disappear, they

7:26

fall out of contact. And

7:28

that's what's going on here. In

7:30

2021, forensic genealogist Misty

7:33

Gillis, who was with

7:35

Identifinders International, was

7:37

looking for a case to work on.

7:40

And she's looking on the Doe Network website, and

7:43

she starts reading about the Harris County Does.

7:46

And she saw that the two individuals in the case

7:48

were not related to each other. This is based on

7:50

the 2011 DNA extraction, and

7:53

the work done there. And she

7:55

decided that she wanted to help work

7:57

this case and figure out what happened.

8:00

She received a grant from the

8:02

podcast production company Audiochuck and started

8:04

working with Allison Peacock, who is

8:06

the founder of FHD Forensics. Now

8:09

Identifinders International contacted the Harris

8:11

County Institute of Forensic Scientists

8:14

and asked to test the remains in late 2021.

8:18

That's fairly recent. Yeah. It's

8:20

great that this got handed

8:23

over to a cold case division

8:25

and there are people that are

8:27

still interested in pursuing it because

8:29

otherwise we would never know. Identifinders

8:33

uploaded their information to gedmatch.com.

8:35

Of course, this is a

8:37

website that allows users to share genetic

8:40

information with law enforcement across the country.

8:43

And Gillison Peacock ended up

8:45

finding close cousins of the

8:47

male victim in Kentucky. And

8:49

so they began constructing family

8:51

trees. And within just 10

8:53

days, they believe they had

8:56

identified the victim, Harold Dean Klaus Jr.

8:59

So they make a call to Dean's sister

9:01

and say, was he missing? Do

9:03

you know anything about him? Because we

9:05

think we've identified him as being a

9:08

murder victim. And they said,

9:10

yes. And he had a

9:12

wife, Tina Gail Lynn Klaus. So

9:14

now we have a connection, a lead.

9:18

And it's incredible what DNA

9:20

can do here. We've

9:23

seen it solve so many cold

9:25

cases. We've seen it identify so

9:27

many victims. And I

9:29

know there's a lot of people out there that are

9:31

worried about privacy, are worried about

9:34

their DNA being out there in a database

9:36

and being used against them one day. But

9:39

so far, I've seen a lot of good

9:41

being done with all of these tests and

9:43

all of these databases. And

9:46

for an organization like this to

9:48

be able to come back and solve

9:50

this is pretty incredible. contacting

10:00

her relatives. But the

10:02

shocking part is when Dean's sister

10:05

asked a question, she asked

10:07

Peacock and Gillis, she said, what do

10:09

you know about baby Holly? And of

10:11

course, the two of them are saying, wait, what?

10:14

Because they're working this case, and they just

10:16

know that they have a dead woman and

10:18

a dead man. There was no dead child

10:20

found at the site. But now that

10:22

they know that this couple had a young

10:25

daughter, well, that's the next step of their

10:27

investigation. Before we go

10:29

on, Justin, let's talk a bit about who

10:31

Harold Dean Clouse, Jr. and Tina Gail Lynn

10:34

Clouse were. Justin

10:36

L Oklahoma

10:47

City. Dean grew up

10:50

in Florida. He seemed to have

10:52

normal childhood, but his older sister,

10:54

Debbie Brooks told the Houston Chronicle

10:56

that Dean left home to join

10:58

a cult in the mid-70s. This

11:02

cult, as most of

11:04

them, they sort of alienate

11:06

you from your family and they

11:09

try to take control of your

11:11

life. So at age

11:13

17, Dean started hanging out

11:15

with these people. His family would

11:17

refer to as Jesus Freaks. Dean's

11:20

mother saw him having a conversation

11:23

in their family kitchen with two

11:25

men wearing white robes. Dean

11:27

would occasionally travel with them, but

11:29

he would always return home. But

11:33

in this one instance, he was gone for

11:35

a very long time. So

11:37

it became sort of commonplace for Dean

11:39

to hang out with this group of

11:42

people and leave on

11:44

occasion and then return. But

11:47

if he were to take off for an

11:50

extended period of time, the family wouldn't be

11:52

reporting him missing. They would just assume that

11:54

he was off with this group. Professor

11:57

Larry Eskridge Wrote a book on

11:59

the. The Jesus People movements. And.

12:02

In it, he identified twelve hundred groups,

12:04

which he estimated as being only half

12:06

of the Jesus People groups that existed

12:08

between Nineteen Sixty Nine and Nineteen Seventy

12:10

Seven. And of course, when it comes to

12:12

groups, when it comes the colts. Some.

12:15

Of the offshoots or more extreme than

12:17

others. The. Jesus People Movement

12:19

is credited as the inspiration

12:21

behind Christian Rock, Christian music

12:23

festivals, and mega churches. I've.

12:26

Attended a a mega church with

12:28

some family members. Once that was

12:31

that experience. When. Team

12:33

Returned home from this extended trip

12:35

with his friends. He met sixteen

12:38

year old Tina Gail Lin. And

12:41

his sister was dating scene His

12:43

brother and Dina Tina shared a

12:45

close bond because they both lost

12:47

their fathers at a young age,

12:49

but their families. They weren't aware

12:51

of how serious the relationship was

12:53

until been told his family that

12:55

they got married at the courthouse.

12:57

which happened June Twenty fifth, Nineteen

12:59

Seventy nine. And

13:01

it was just a year later that

13:03

they had their daughter Holly Murray. January.

13:06

Twenty Fourth of Nineteen Eighty.

13:09

This relationship just moved very fast

13:11

for them. They were very

13:13

much in love and had a

13:15

plan for lies and to

13:18

have children. So Holly Maria's born.

13:21

Or Teams brother Chris Caserta told people

13:23

that Scene was a doting father who

13:25

tried to provide for his family and

13:27

Dean told his mother he was thinking

13:29

about moving to Texas for better job

13:31

opportunities. Depending. On where you look,

13:33

Dean either worked as a cabinet maker

13:35

or carpenter, but I'd say those are

13:38

somewhat similar. Courting. To the Texas

13:40

Observer. Dean got a job with the home

13:42

D R Horton. And. This was during

13:44

the nineteen eighties construction boom in the

13:46

Dallas Fort Worth metro area. And.

13:48

Deans mother helped the couple out

13:50

by letting Dean purchase or car

13:52

so they could move and travel.

13:56

They. Left Florida in August of Nineteen

13:58

eighty and they stayed with. a

14:00

family in Baltimore. And then they

14:02

drove down back to Texas, a

14:04

suburb outside of Dallas. They

14:07

were staying with one of Dean's cousins,

14:09

but they soon moved into their own

14:12

place. They had some

14:14

financial troubles because Dean was in between

14:16

jobs and living in the area they

14:18

were in. I'm sure there wasn't a

14:20

lot of carpentry work, whatever it was.

14:24

I think this is possibly why

14:26

Dean might hang out with some

14:28

of his old friends. We

14:31

don't really know what happens next,

14:33

but if you're struggling financially, you're

14:35

looking for work, you can possibly

14:38

make some bad decisions or get

14:40

into groups that might not have

14:42

your best interests in mind. Well,

14:45

and if you're traveling a lot, moving around from

14:48

place to place, state to state, it

14:50

can take time to get a new job. So

14:52

even if they had some funds to get

14:54

into a place, then there's this

14:56

work they have to do to get a new

14:58

job so he can start providing again, and

15:01

that can take time. Sometimes you don't just get

15:03

that job the first week you go looking. But

15:07

they're doing their best to stay in

15:09

contact with their families. Tina had written

15:11

a letter to her older sister, Sherry, telling

15:13

her that they had their own place and

15:15

that they were happy. Sherry

15:17

responded, but her letter was returned

15:20

with no forwarding address. And

15:22

at this point, Tina and Dean stopped

15:25

writing letters. They essentially

15:28

cut off contact with their

15:30

families. But is this

15:32

them cutting off contact or is this

15:35

contact has been cut off? There's

15:37

different reports, but Tina's letter about

15:39

their move was the last time

15:41

the families had heard from them.

15:45

Later communication was cut off with

15:47

their families, a stranger

15:49

who identified herself as Sister

15:51

Susan called Dean's family. She

15:54

said she was in Los Angeles and had

15:56

information about the couple. She also

15:58

said she had Dean's car,

16:00

which was a 1978 two-door

16:03

red AMC concord, and would

16:05

return it for $1,000. So

16:10

Sister Susan, this mysterious lady,

16:12

is trying to return their

16:15

car and wants money from

16:17

this family. That seems really

16:19

odd. But this is

16:21

all the family knows, so of course they're

16:24

going to want to meet with this Sister

16:26

Susan. Dean's family traveled to

16:28

Daytona Beach to get the car. This was in late

16:30

December 1980 or early January of 1981. They

16:35

met with this woman who had two

16:37

more women with her and there

16:39

was possibly a male with them as well.

16:42

So Sister Susan is speaking to

16:45

Donna, Dean's mother, and she

16:47

said, I want to sell you back this

16:49

car, but it's basically just a donation to

16:51

our group. We're called Christ

16:54

Family. And she said that

16:56

Dean and Tina had joined their group, had

16:58

given up all their possessions, and

17:00

were cutting off ties with all their families

17:03

that they were no longer going to stay in contact with

17:05

them. That would explain why they didn't

17:07

hear from them anymore because they had made this decision.

17:10

But Donna said she pleaded with the

17:12

group. She pleaded with Sister Susan and said,

17:14

please let me get a hold of Dean.

17:17

And they said, he has left. Now

17:19

this Christ family was a religious group. It

17:22

was primarily based in California and New Mexico,

17:24

but they did go through Texas in the

17:26

1980s. And some

17:28

of their beliefs included separating couples and

17:30

not eating meat or using leather products.

17:33

The group was led by a man

17:35

named Charles Franklin McHugh, who went by

17:37

the name Lightning Amen. And

17:40

his followers believed he was Jesus. And

17:43

they all changed their last names to

17:45

Christ. I mean, this is to

17:47

each their own, but for them

17:50

to come up with this

17:52

story for this family, I

17:54

guess it's not out of the realm

17:56

of possibilities here, but this

17:58

sounds very suspicious. Well,

18:01

this group lasted until about 1985. The

18:04

followers had lived a nomadic lifestyle,

18:06

but the group also was known

18:08

for using drugs which got them

18:10

in trouble with law enforcement. In

18:12

fact, Lightning Amen was convicted of

18:14

transportation and sale of methamphetamines and

18:17

in 1987 he was sentenced to five years

18:19

in prison. With this

18:21

information though, Dean's family reported him

18:23

missing to the Daytona Beach Police

18:26

and an officer replied that the

18:28

disappearance seemed voluntary. I

18:31

understand that people can run off

18:33

with different groups, but

18:36

if this group is known to police,

18:38

if this group is not exactly law

18:40

abiding, I would hope that somebody would

18:43

be questioned. I would hope somebody would

18:45

look into it if the family reported

18:47

their family members missing. Well,

18:50

apparently the police saw this as

18:52

an adult and that if

18:54

he was gone, he meant to

18:56

be gone because all the information

18:58

anybody had was that he had

19:00

joined this group and was intending

19:02

to cut off contact with his

19:04

family. So I can see how

19:06

that does make this difficult. Now,

19:08

Dean's family, they reported her missing to

19:11

the Salvation Army. This is

19:13

something I haven't heard of before, but the

19:15

Salvation Army kept the report. It

19:18

was never entered into the NCIC

19:20

system, which is a national database

19:22

often used for unidentified bodies. It's

19:25

believed that Dean and Tina joined Christ

19:27

Family in Texas and followed them to

19:29

Arizona. The group had a winter camp

19:32

near Blythe, California, which is

19:34

40 miles from Yuma, Arizona. They

19:36

don't know how long they were there or

19:38

how they even got back to Texas because

19:41

they didn't have their car. And

19:44

at no point does the family know

19:46

how their daughter is doing. They

19:48

don't know anything about what's happened

19:51

to their family members, but now

19:53

40 years later their bodies

19:55

have been identified. It

19:58

was January 12, 2022. when

20:00

it was announced that the Harris

20:02

County Dose were identified. Allison

20:05

Peacock told KHOU11 that someone

20:07

reached out to her after

20:09

the announcement and said that

20:12

Tina was their babysitter. This

20:14

person had horror stories about Tina's childhood. They

20:16

said her parents moved in the middle of

20:19

the night. Tina allegedly had a

20:21

little sister, but no one remembered her

20:23

mother being pregnant. So there

20:25

are some real mysteries there with Tina and

20:27

her family. Now that

20:29

they've identified this couple and they

20:32

know that they had a child that's missing, the

20:34

Texas Attorney General's cold case and missing

20:37

persons unit started looking into Holly's case

20:39

and the murders of her parents in

20:41

January 2022. So

20:43

this took off pretty quickly. Now

20:46

obviously there's a cold case task force

20:48

with this office because of the problem

20:50

of thousands of unidentified people in the

20:52

United States. And at this

20:54

time there were over 40,000 unidentified

20:56

bodies in the United States, around

20:58

269,000 unsolved

21:01

homicides with more than 19,000 in Texas

21:03

alone. And Harris

21:05

County had a backlog of

21:07

over 300 unidentified bodies. They

21:10

have identified two now and

21:12

know that they're missing one

21:15

and they're already one step ahead

21:17

with this DNA tests

21:19

and databases. So this

21:22

is something that seems

21:24

solvable to them and

21:26

they're going for it. So

21:29

they know that Holly was one years old when she

21:31

went missing. So she would be an adult

21:33

at this time and investigators weren't

21:35

sure how to spell her name

21:38

because relatives spelled it differently. They

21:40

spelled it Holly H-O-L-L-I-E and

21:43

others spelled it H-O-L-L-Y.

21:46

And this is still hunting for a

21:48

needle in a haystack because if

21:50

her parents were murdered, anyone could have

21:52

changed her name. She could have gone

21:54

by a different name, but they're just

21:56

going with the only information they have

21:59

and they know a bird. certificate was given

22:01

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23:51

of Holly's aunts worked with Allison

23:53

Peacock and they requested her birth

23:55

certificate from the Florida Department of

23:57

Vital Records, but that request was

23:59

due denied. And when they spoke

24:02

with a detective from the Lewisville Police

24:04

Department also made the request, but was

24:06

denied access. A prosecutor with

24:08

the Texas Attorney General's office and

24:10

another Florida detective working with that

24:12

office were denied access. So

24:14

it turned out that they had to get

24:17

a court order. And whenever

24:19

that happens, it's usually because there's

24:21

an adoption. And that's

24:23

what they ended up finding out was

24:25

this is all sealed because it's an

24:27

adoption record. And if

24:30

the adoptive parents or just the system

24:32

in general wants to seal the records,

24:34

so everyone's identity is concealed, that's what

24:37

they can do. But they're

24:39

able to get past this,

24:42

right? They have suspicions that

24:44

this child's been kidnapped. They have

24:46

suspicions that there's been foul play.

24:49

So they keep moving on this

24:51

case because Holly Marie is technically

24:53

a missing person. So

24:56

once it's unsealed, they discover

24:59

that the adoption certificate listed

25:01

Holly's parents as Philip and

25:03

Constance McGoldrick. Now the

25:06

investigators find Constance in Arizona

25:08

and Holly

25:10

and her father in Oklahoma. Now,

25:13

right from the beginning here, they don't know if

25:15

the McGoldricks are the ones that caused all

25:18

this to happen. Did they murder Holly's parents

25:20

and kidnap her? Or how

25:22

did they come into adopting

25:24

Holly? They don't

25:26

know what they're walking into. I mean,

25:28

this is kind of a messed up

25:31

situation where, okay, you're the adoptive parents,

25:33

but we know her parents were murdered.

25:35

We got to investigate and see how

25:38

this all happened. So how

25:40

did they become the adoptive

25:42

parents? Well, first we

25:44

should start with the investigators really wanted

25:46

to locate Holly Marie and speak with

25:48

her. And they located her in Cushing,

25:50

Oklahoma. This happened June 7, 2022. And

25:53

they quickly

25:55

discovered that the 42 year old Holly

25:57

Marie was a mother of five. A

26:00

detective and an official from the Texas Attorney

26:02

General's Cold Case and Missing Persons Unit approached

26:05

her during her shift at a deli

26:07

where she worked as a waitress. They

26:10

told her we are investigating the double

26:12

murder of a young couple named Dean

26:14

and Tina Klaus who were killed in

26:17

the 1980s. They

26:19

said we have reason to believe that you are

26:21

the daughter of this couple and

26:23

you have a lot of family members that

26:25

have been looking for you ever since this

26:27

occurred. So she is interviewing

26:29

with them and she said, I

26:32

have to tell you, I grew up in a

26:34

loving home and I was told

26:36

as a child that my birth parents gave

26:38

me up because of their religious beliefs. So

26:41

she had no idea about these murders.

26:44

And she is telling them like

26:46

Philip McGoldrick, he was a great

26:48

father. So this is only

26:50

causing the investigation to become stranger because

26:52

they were hoping they would get answers

26:55

right away. But according to Holly, no,

26:57

this was a very nice home and

26:59

Philip McGoldrick was a pastor of a

27:01

Seventh-day Adventist church in Yuma, Arizona. And

27:04

it's when they talk to Philip, they find

27:06

out just how he came to meet Holly

27:09

Marie when she was just a baby. It

27:12

says that two women were standing

27:14

outside of his church dressed in

27:16

white robes and were barefoot. It

27:19

was assumed or they announced that they

27:21

were members of this religious group called

27:23

Christ Family. He asked them how

27:25

he could help and they

27:27

showed him the baby they had.

27:30

They said they were wanting to

27:33

give this baby away. They

27:35

told him they couldn't take care

27:37

of her because they lived this

27:39

nomadic lifestyle. The police

27:41

believe that one of these women was Tina because

27:44

they had a birth certificate

27:46

and a note relinquishing the

27:49

parental rights. I

27:51

guess that's a valid assumption, but

27:54

if Tina and Dean are dead,

27:57

it's not like this group

27:59

couldn't have written the note

28:01

themselves and had the birth certificate.

28:03

But according to investigators, they assume that

28:05

Tina might have been one of these

28:08

women. Robert Leonard Well, and

28:10

it's about the timing of all this, right?

28:12

So we don't really know if the couple

28:14

was dead at this time, or if Tina

28:16

was there, she might have been just going

28:18

along with what the group wanted. So there

28:21

are many possibilities here. But I

28:23

do understand if there's some skepticism about

28:26

whether Tina would have given up her

28:28

child in such a manner. Robert Leonard

28:30

And Philip McColdrick, he's kind

28:32

of saying this one woman

28:35

represented herself as Holly's mother.

28:37

So, you know, it's

28:39

questionable in my mind because of

28:41

the aftermath of it all. Robert

28:44

Leonard And because of the beliefs

28:46

of this group, and I mentioned earlier

28:48

that it included separating male and female

28:50

members. Well, this would explain why Dean

28:52

wasn't with Tina if that was her

28:54

there. But according to

28:57

those who might know, it did appear that

28:59

the note looked like it was from Tina.

29:01

Robert Leonard Usually, when they

29:03

start separating the men from the women,

29:05

it's because the cult leader wants access

29:08

to all the women. That's usually how

29:10

most of these religious groups behave. Robert

29:12

Leonard Holly reunited with her biological family

29:15

in June of 2022. She got to

29:17

know Dean's mother, which would be her

29:19

grandmother, Donna. And unfortunately,

29:22

Donna Cassantis, while she was reunited

29:24

with Holly, would die in October

29:26

of 2023. Robert

29:28

Leonard This is a stunning case because for

29:31

years, it was just about this couple,

29:33

like you said, Romeo and Juliet, that

29:35

were found, they had been murdered, that

29:37

much was clear. And then

29:39

you had this whole investigation

29:41

kicked off, thanks to this

29:43

group at Audio Chuck, right?

29:46

They did a lot of this investigation, they

29:48

worked with the authorities, and they found a

29:50

lot of the answers. But

29:52

this case, while it feels

29:54

somewhat closed, it's not fully closed because

29:56

we still don't know who murdered Dean

29:58

and Tina Klaus. or

30:01

how exactly Holly Marie ended up

30:03

with the Mecultrics. We

30:06

have some evidence, but we don't really have

30:08

the full picture, even to this day. No,

30:11

I mean, we can infer, we

30:13

can make assumptions. As

30:15

usual, we can always point to who

30:18

was the last person to see them

30:20

alive, who was the last person they

30:22

were with, and that would be this

30:24

religious group they were hanging around. This

30:27

religious group that seemed to have

30:30

somewhat extreme beliefs,

30:33

and even sold the car back

30:35

to the family, which I

30:38

see that as just blackmail,

30:40

really. I think

30:42

that we have a pretty good idea, but

30:45

now it's decades later,

30:47

how can we figure out

30:50

who did this, how can we figure out

30:52

where they were on that day, unless somebody

30:54

were to say, I'm the one that did

30:57

it, someone were to confess to it, or

30:59

somebody was witnessed firsthand to

31:02

the event? It

31:04

feels like they've done their best. In

31:06

January of 2023, investigators did a final

31:09

canvas of the plot of land where

31:11

Dean and Tina were found, and

31:13

search dogs correctly indicated the area where

31:16

they had been found. So

31:18

there were some items collected, soil

31:20

samples collected, but nothing is

31:22

really coming of this. And then

31:25

when we talk about Sister Susan basically blackmailing

31:27

Dean's family and getting $1,000 for the car,

31:29

on one hand, you

31:32

can say, well, their belief system is that

31:34

anybody who joins has to give up all

31:37

their possessions to the group. So

31:39

did she come by this car through

31:41

normal means, or were the

31:43

couple killed, and she had the car and

31:45

was going to make money off of it?

31:48

We don't really know. I mean, Sister

31:50

Susan spoke with ABC News, and she

31:52

emphasized that members of Christ's family were

31:55

committed to nonviolence, but I

31:57

think that's questionable. We don't really know, do we? No.

32:01

I just think about police officers

32:03

will go into an area

32:06

and pull over people

32:08

or harass gang members, will

32:10

come up and handcuff them and question

32:12

them just because they're wearing a blue

32:15

or red flannel. And I'm

32:17

thinking, well, why didn't they go

32:19

around and just start arresting or

32:21

detaining every single barefoot cloaked person

32:23

in this neighborhood? Why don't they just

32:25

go around and start questioning them because

32:28

we have two dead bodies here? Yeah,

32:31

but they didn't really get an investigation

32:33

off the ground until many decades later.

32:35

And it's going to

32:37

come down to someone speaking and giving up

32:40

information like you said. Sister

32:42

Susan, I don't know how helpful she is.

32:44

I mean, if you're in a

32:46

cult, your life is completely different.

32:48

I don't know how much objectivity there

32:50

is. It's difficult to come

32:53

by with regular people. But people in

32:55

a cult, who knows? She might

32:57

have been told, here, take this car, go get some

32:59

money for it. And she just did as she was

33:01

told. We have no idea. She should

33:04

give a list of all of its members and they should

33:06

be rounded up. That would be great. But

33:08

as we know, people who were in a

33:11

cult, they're very protective, right? They don't look

33:13

at it as, oh, we need to solve

33:15

this crime. She was more concerned back in

33:17

the day with getting some money for her

33:19

group. So all this other stuff is

33:21

not important. Do we want to be

33:23

tough on crime or not? I mean, we have ways to

33:25

get people to talk, right? Well, who

33:27

knows? Maybe Sister Susan was just made of

33:29

stearner stuff and they couldn't get anywhere with

33:31

her, right? It is disappointing.

33:33

I feel like more could have been

33:35

done. But I do think, all told,

33:38

we've seen many cases just stay unidentified,

33:40

stay a mystery. And then

33:42

here, there are a lot of answers. It's

33:44

just, while there are a lot of answers,

33:46

we can't quite connect everything together into one

33:48

cohesive package. I'm sure a lot of people

33:51

out there will just say, they joined a

33:53

cult, bad things happened, I get it. And

33:56

maybe that's enough, right? That's all we

33:58

have anyway. But Holly Marine She

34:00

wrote a book titled Finding Baby

34:02

Holly, Lost to a Cult, Surviving

34:04

My Parents' Murder, and Saved by

34:06

a Prayer. This was published on November 7,

34:09

2023. She's

34:12

done a lot to kind of keep

34:15

her life private, but it is a

34:17

very interesting read and I would highly

34:19

recommend if this case interests you, if

34:21

you're even remotely interested in hearing about

34:24

her life, to go out and check

34:26

out this book. It's

34:28

interesting how you can feel like you

34:31

know your life, your own life, and

34:33

then one day an investigator can tell

34:35

you something and you realize that so

34:37

much of what you thought was true

34:39

wasn't. She had no idea that

34:41

her parents had been murdered and that the

34:43

real reason for adoption could have been something

34:46

much more nefarious. It's

34:48

a paradigm shift. It's everything

34:50

you've lived is, I

34:52

wouldn't say been a lie. She

34:54

had great parents. Her adoptive

34:57

parents, they went through the proper channels.

34:59

There was nothing that they did wrong

35:01

and they raised her the best they

35:03

could and she had

35:07

a great upbringing. But

35:09

for a detective to come up and say,

35:11

oh, by the way, you have a whole

35:13

other family you didn't know about and your

35:15

parents were murdered. I don't

35:17

know how someone processes that. I don't know

35:19

how somebody can just be like, oh, okay.

35:23

I had no idea that that was

35:25

my life. It

35:27

just shows that reality is stranger

35:29

than fiction sometimes and her book

35:32

is amazing. Holly's

35:35

family supports a nonprofit called

35:37

Genealogy for Justice. They

35:39

also established the Dean and Tina

35:41

Lynn Clouse Memorial Fund, which

35:44

helps identify other John and Jane Doz.

35:46

The investigation continues though because investigators

35:49

are looking to try and find

35:51

anyone who may have had contact

35:53

with a follower who went by

35:55

the name Rosemary Garcia. Rosemary

35:57

Garcia had three teen daughters. called

36:00

her Rosemary and the Three J's.

36:02

This is how they were known. Rosemary was with

36:05

Tina on the day she gave Holly to the

36:07

pastor. It's believed. And she's

36:09

also believed to be deceased. Rosemary

36:11

stayed at the Blithe camp and traveled around the

36:13

Yuma area. The Three J's

36:16

were Jill, Joy, and Jan. And

36:18

it's believed they may have met Tina. And

36:22

if nothing else, even if

36:24

these followers weren't responsible

36:26

for their death, they could say, well,

36:29

they were leaving the group and

36:31

they were hitchhiking and they got

36:33

into this vehicle. Whatever the story

36:35

is, whatever the situation is, they

36:37

need a lead here. But

36:40

again, these cult members, they're protecting their

36:42

own and they don't want to help

36:44

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37:24

there's this idea that she may

37:26

have, Rosemary Garcia, may have been

37:28

behind these murders that she

37:30

may have orchestrated everything because Sergeant

37:32

Rachel Cating of the Texas AG's

37:34

office told people that she thought

37:37

Dean and Tina decided to leave

37:39

the group right around the time

37:41

that they were murdered and that

37:43

there's evidence that Christ's family was involved

37:45

in the murders, but they think it

37:48

was because it was somebody associated with

37:50

the group, not necessarily at the group's

37:52

direction. And so how did

37:54

they end up where they ended up?

37:56

Well, Sergeant Rachel Cating believes it's possible

37:58

that Dean and Tina because they didn't

38:00

have a car, were hitchhiking. They were

38:02

hitchhiking and someone picked them up and

38:05

killed them. That's another possibility, whether

38:07

it's something to do with Rosemary Garcia

38:09

or they ran afoul of possibly a

38:11

killer on the road. There

38:14

are a lot of questions still remaining and

38:16

it's nice, Justin, that they're still working to

38:18

follow some leads here and there. It

38:21

shows they care. You know, in

38:23

every police force, there's different departments,

38:25

there's different people that can work

38:27

on things. Even if it wasn't

38:30

initially investigated, well,

38:33

times are changing. We

38:35

have cold case departments, we have

38:37

DNA, we have ways to find

38:40

people and bring justice. Anybody

38:42

who looks into this, they might find that

38:45

there are questions about who's in charge of

38:47

this case now, which investigators are on the

38:49

case, because there are questions about funding. The

38:52

way I look at it is, if you can see a case

38:55

get broken open by essentially podcasters,

38:57

which is what happened here, then

39:00

it shows we're not really limited

39:03

by our resources in law enforcement,

39:06

that people can do what they can and

39:08

they can find answers as well. With

39:11

all of those resources, with DNA,

39:13

with all these organizations, and

39:16

I've seen things explode online and

39:18

all of the web sleuths go

39:20

at it, we can find answers.

39:23

Crowdsourcing is an unlimited

39:26

resource. I understand that

39:28

you have 30,000 missing people

39:31

at this moment. You have 10,000 unidentified

39:34

dead bodies. It

39:36

can be overwhelming for a police

39:38

department or for one investigator to

39:40

attempt to take that on, but

39:43

there are people that have the time.

39:45

Sometimes we just need the access. To

39:48

me, they should keep tracking down leads because

39:51

at the end of the day, while Holly

39:53

Marie was found and of course an adult

39:55

with children of her own, her

39:58

parents were murdered. It

40:00

doesn't matter whether it was five years ago,

40:03

40 years ago or whatever it is, murderers

40:05

should be held accountable. There's no statute

40:07

of limitations on that. So

40:10

if anybody has a tip, they

40:12

can of course contact the cold

40:14

case unit oag.texas.gov, we'll

40:17

provide a link or they can call 512-936-0742. Justin,

40:24

when you first started reading about this, had

40:26

you heard about this case? I

40:29

had not actually. I

40:31

had no idea what we were about

40:34

to take on. I always am a

40:36

little dismissive of when people

40:38

say, oh, well, they joined a

40:40

cult or there's roving bands of

40:42

cult members that murdered these people.

40:44

And I'm like, oh, come on.

40:47

But in this case, that

40:49

actually was the reality. They

40:52

had fallen into a

40:54

group of people that

40:56

seemed very suspicious, have

40:58

their belongings, have their child,

41:00

yet their bodies are found.

41:03

I mean, just connect the dots there. I

41:06

don't know if there's enough evidence to say

41:08

they absolutely murdered this couple, but they're

41:11

the prime suspect. Every single member

41:13

of this group is a

41:15

suspect in their murder. And I

41:17

think just like any other

41:19

criminal investigation, any other, you know,

41:21

the way we treat gang members or

41:24

whatever, they should be treated this way.

41:26

And I am happy

41:28

that the daughter came

41:30

out unscathed and had a

41:32

somewhat wonderful life and upbringing. But

41:35

in cases like this, I just think,

41:37

well, why aren't we investigating this the

41:39

way we come after other criminals and

41:41

crime? And luckily now,

41:44

decades later, they are. Yeah,

41:47

it does feel like they need to start with the group. I

41:49

am curious that they believe that Dean

41:52

and Tina intended to leave the group,

41:54

that that's a belief because Dean especially

41:56

seemed to have understood what the group

41:58

was all about, had spent. considerable

42:00

time with them, it

42:02

feels like before he dove

42:04

in with both feet. So

42:07

what would have occurred for him

42:09

to decide to leave? And all

42:11

I can think of was maybe,

42:13

because you brought it up, maybe

42:15

Tina was getting approached by the

42:17

leader and Dean didn't like

42:19

that situation. I'm trying to

42:21

think of what would actually get him to go

42:23

away because when people get into these cults, they

42:25

buy in. But there could be

42:27

something that would interfere with what he thought

42:29

was his happiness, meaning he and Tina were

42:32

a couple. And no matter what kind

42:34

of group they were part of, I think

42:36

that's what they intended was to be a

42:38

couple. But if this group separating them, and

42:40

maybe that's something they didn't quite believe or

42:42

understand at the time, because of maybe they

42:44

were too young, maybe they were naive, maybe

42:46

that's what got them to go and maybe

42:48

that's what caused a rift. But this

42:50

is all guesswork, right? Dr. Justin

42:52

Marchegiani Yeah, I mean, that's the simplest explanation

42:54

is meth Christ leader

42:56

guy wanted to sleep

42:58

with Tina and they weren't okay

43:01

with that. They'd been taken advantage

43:03

of had all their belongings taken

43:05

from them, they want to leave.

43:08

And now the order is given

43:10

that they're going to be killed.

43:13

And they can sell the car off, they

43:15

probably intended to sell the child off too,

43:17

but then they thought better of that. So

43:19

they just gave the child up. Dr. Justin

43:22

Marchegiani It's heartbreaking to think that if

43:24

Tina was there giving her daughter up,

43:27

what were the circumstances because according

43:29

to Philip McGoldrick, it seemed like

43:31

she was representing herself as the

43:33

baby's mother, but it didn't seem

43:35

like she was under any duress.

43:38

We just don't really know what it's like. You

43:40

and I haven't been in a call. We

43:43

can watch, we can read, we can see

43:45

things on documentaries, but for those that

43:47

are in a cult like this, it's

43:49

just really hard to identify what that's

43:51

like. But she gave up

43:53

her daughter possibly, or her daughter was

43:55

taken either way. That's heartbreaking. Well,

43:59

let us know what you think this if you've filed

44:01

this case for years for myself, I

44:03

had heard of it and then some

44:05

time went by and then when it

44:07

was announced that Dean and Tina Klaus

44:10

were identified, that was surprising because I

44:12

wasn't there for that. I never saw

44:14

that announcement. I noticed it when Holly

44:16

Marie was located. That's what blew this

44:18

case up again for me. I was

44:21

shocked to see that it was some

44:24

old case I'd read about. I couldn't

44:26

believe that they were able to uncover

44:28

all this. So it's pretty impressive to

44:30

me what they were able to do

44:32

here. Yeah, and I hope they make

44:35

more progress and at least are able

44:37

to give the family some more closure.

44:40

So again, major credit to Misty Gillis

44:42

and Allison Peacock. I think that's pretty

44:44

astounding what they were able to do

44:47

with this case and at least bring

44:49

all the answers they were able to

44:51

find. Hey everybody, if you want

44:53

to help us out, please be

44:55

sure to subscribe and rate us

44:57

out there, especially on Apple or

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45:04

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45:06

you for listening. Hey,

46:11

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