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watching.

2:05

How you

2:27

doing tonight, Aaron? I'm doing

2:29

good, but how is Justin? I'm

2:32

doing good. We're

2:34

going to be at the True Crime

2:36

Podcast Festival. It's in Denver, Colorado, July

2:39

12th through the 14th at the

2:41

Denver Marriott Westminster. This is

2:43

a much more intimate and advocacy

2:45

driven convention. It's great to support the

2:47

families and everyone that goes there and

2:50

we hope to see you there. And

2:52

we're going to be doing these meetups with some

2:54

other podcasters in San Jose. It'll

2:57

be Esther from Once Upon a Crime and

2:59

in LA, it'll be Jamie from Murderish. We're

3:01

going to be in San Jose and Los

3:03

Angeles, the 22nd and the 24th. Go

3:08

out to genypod.com, get the

3:10

venue, the times and all

3:12

that good stuff. Check

3:15

us on social media and Madison from

3:17

Ice Cold Case. So it should be

3:19

fun. So

3:21

Aaron, tonight's case is more of a

3:23

current one. We usually wait

3:26

till time has passed, things

3:28

are resolved and we can kind

3:31

of work through a lot of the

3:33

reporting and whether it's

3:36

autopsy reports, police reports or

3:38

news reports to figure it

3:40

out. This case, I'm

3:43

at a little bit of a loss right now. I

3:46

have opinions, but what are we talking about

3:48

tonight? Tonight, we're talking

3:50

about the January 29th, 2022 Canton, Massachusetts, death of

3:53

Boston police

3:57

officer John O'Keefe. He was

3:59

found in a fellow officer's

4:01

front yard. We'll

4:03

get into why he was there and

4:06

what might have happened to him. So

4:09

John O'Keefe had worked for the Boston

4:11

Police Department for 16 years. He

4:15

was looked up to, considered

4:17

a hero because he adopted

4:19

his niece and nephew after

4:21

his sister and brother-in-law died

4:24

just months apart. That's

4:26

kind of crazy and a big deal, right

4:28

Aaron? It's unbelievable

4:30

what family can do for one another.

4:33

John's sister, Kristen, she

4:35

died of a brain tumor in

4:37

November of 2013. Her

4:40

husband, Steven, died just months later.

4:42

I believe it was in January

4:44

of a heart attack. That

4:47

was in 2014. A

4:49

broken heart, I'm sure. But

4:52

they had two kids and so John stepped

4:54

up and said, I will take care of

4:56

my niece and nephew. And

4:59

this was one of

5:01

the selling points for a woman named

5:03

Karen Reed. She saw

5:06

John's generosity. She saw what

5:08

he was willing to do.

5:11

And she was with John

5:13

at the time and this just

5:15

made her love him even more. According

5:18

to her, this was just such

5:20

an amazing gesture by him. She

5:24

had actually known John for quite a while.

5:27

She worked as an equity researcher at

5:29

Fidelity Investments and was an adjunct professor

5:32

in the finance department at Bentley University.

5:35

They had dated in their 20s but

5:38

ended up reconnecting over Facebook 10

5:40

years later. And

5:43

according to ABC, Karen became part of

5:45

the family but she and

5:47

John had problems going on in

5:49

their relationship. Karen said

5:52

John relied on her a lot

5:55

to take care of the kids. And

5:57

even criticized some of the decisions.

6:00

she made with them. So John

6:03

and her are together. John's

6:05

expecting her to play

6:07

the mother role. And then when she

6:10

does, he criticizes her for

6:12

it. So this has become a point

6:14

of contention between the two. There

6:17

was an incident that happened December 31st, 2021. According to Karen,

6:22

they got into a big argument. They

6:24

were on vacation. And she said that

6:26

John became incoherently drunk. And

6:29

then he didn't show back up to

6:31

the room until after 3am. And

6:35

Karen said, I felt very much taken

6:37

advantage of. He apologized profusely for what

6:39

happened on New Year's Eve. And

6:42

he said, if you can't get over it, then

6:44

you need to spend some time at your house.

6:46

I can't keep apologizing. I don't want to keep

6:48

rehashing this. With this

6:50

kind of quote, you can read into

6:53

it. You can say, if something happens, if

6:55

there's an argument, it doesn't go

6:57

away. It doesn't get resolved. I

6:59

hate to put it this way, but this happens

7:02

a lot in relationships, even if

7:04

it's not a girlfriend or someone

7:06

you're dating. This happens with moms

7:09

and dads and husbands and wives.

7:12

Somebody feels taken advantage of.

7:14

Disagreements happen. So far, I'm

7:17

looking at this and I'm thinking,

7:19

yeah, that sucks. But I'm not

7:21

seeing motivation for murder here. I'm

7:23

just saying they have disagreements. That's

7:25

just my take. But I

7:27

know this is all the details leading

7:29

up to January 28th to the 29th

7:31

of 2022. Well, that night involved Karen and John going

7:39

out to bars in Canton, Massachusetts.

7:41

The first one they went to

7:43

was called CF McCarthy. Around

7:46

11 PM, they went across the

7:48

street to the waterfall bar and

7:51

grill. That's where they run

7:53

into a fellow Boston police

7:55

officer named Brian Albert. According

7:58

to Karen, John very much up

8:00

to Brian. Also at this

8:02

bar was Jennifer McCabe, which was

8:04

Brian Albert's sister-in-law. Jennifer

8:07

had known John for years and had met

8:09

Karen two years earlier. Jennifer

8:11

and others said they saw Karen walk

8:13

into Waterfall with a glass from the

8:15

other bar, but no

8:18

one reported thinking that either one was

8:20

drunk. And

8:22

there is security camera footage of

8:24

them at all of these bars

8:27

and having multiple drinks. I think

8:29

at the first bar, Karen had

8:31

up to six or seven drinks.

8:34

Now, was one or two of

8:36

them a Coca-Cola or a nice

8:38

tea? I don't know, but they're

8:40

all drinking excessively. And

8:43

Brian Albert, he is

8:46

part of like this special unit. He's

8:49

this main guy and people see

8:51

him as this super cop. And

8:54

that's why John looked up to him and others looked

8:56

up to him. So

8:59

John tells Karen, we're invited to

9:01

go to Brian's house. And

9:03

Karen wasn't sure. Now,

9:06

according to ABC, she says

9:08

that she asked John, can we make

9:10

sure we're welcome here? Because nobody extended

9:12

the invite to me. And

9:15

she never heard that the invite

9:17

was extended to him. So

9:20

she's a little hesitant. And

9:22

I guess this is an indication that Brian

9:24

Albert is a big deal. You

9:26

don't want to just invite yourself to someone's house.

9:29

But of course, John's telling her, no, no, it's good.

9:32

So Karen drives him

9:34

over to Brian Albert's house. She's

9:36

driving a Lexus SUV. And

9:39

there's this big snowstorm that happened

9:41

that weekend. They got over 20

9:43

inches of snow, which

9:45

this is probably a bad idea

9:48

in general, because I'm going to

9:50

go out on a limb here, Aaron,

9:52

and say, nobody was legal to drive.

9:54

They probably were all impaired. And

9:56

then you add in snow on the

9:58

ground. I've seen... images, security

10:01

camera footage and stuff. There

10:03

was at least three to five inches

10:06

of snow in all of the images

10:08

I saw. Wasn't 20, but there still

10:10

was a lot of snow on the

10:12

ground. Karen gave

10:15

a statement about what she says

10:17

happened when they got to Brian Albert's house.

10:20

Karen said she pulled up to the foot of

10:22

the driveway to drop John off. He

10:25

wasn't wearing a coat. Obviously, he

10:27

probably needed one, but he's

10:29

from there. So baby's like, I'm just going

10:31

to be outside for a minute. He

10:33

walks up to the driveway to a side door.

10:36

Karen says she looks down at her phone as

10:39

he's approaching the door. Now after

10:41

waiting there for about 10 minutes, she starts

10:43

to get irritated because she's not hearing from

10:45

John. So because

10:47

she was nervous about this whole situation

10:50

and because she never heard that she

10:52

was invited, she drove back to

10:54

John's house. And continued

10:56

to try and reach him until she fell

10:58

asleep, she says, around 1.30 AM. And

11:02

of course, her attorneys said that

11:04

she had also gone home because

11:06

she had some stomach problems related

11:08

to a medical condition. And

11:11

she gets up before, what is it, 5 AM? And

11:15

John's still not there. She

11:17

hasn't heard from him. So she heads

11:19

out, she's going to look for him. Apparently,

11:23

this is the point where she's backing

11:25

out of the driveway and she

11:27

hits a parked car, or she

11:30

claims she hits a parked car, which

11:32

damages her tail light. She's

11:34

also trying to reach out to John's friends,

11:36

Kerry Roberts and Jennifer McCabe. McCabe

11:39

was at Brian's house the night

11:41

before. And the three

11:43

women get together and they go

11:45

over to Brian Albert's home together to look for

11:47

John. But see, John

11:49

Keefe was found dead outside

11:52

of Albert's home around 6

11:54

AM that morning. So

11:58

he is pronounced dead. at

12:00

the hospital and they're

12:03

going to perform an autopsy and

12:05

show that he died from blunt

12:07

force trauma and hypothermia. John

12:10

had a black eye, cuts on his

12:12

arm and other bruises. The

12:15

medical examiner determined that his

12:18

head injuries incapacitated him. They

12:21

also found no signs that John was

12:23

involved in a fight, which

12:25

is interesting. No signs

12:28

that he was involved in a fight,

12:30

which I'm thinking, can you really determine

12:32

that yet? He has blunt

12:34

force trauma to his head and cuts

12:36

and stuff on his arms. It's

12:39

up for interpretation and that's a point of

12:41

contention that's going to come up here, isn't

12:43

it? This is the whole

12:45

kind of crux of the case is whether

12:48

he was involved in a fight or something

12:50

else happened. Right,

12:52

but this autopsy doesn't actually seem

12:54

to answer all the questions because

12:56

manner of death could not be

12:58

determined according to the medical examiner.

13:02

Now Karen's saying, I dropped them

13:04

off at this party, but

13:06

they're going to go and ask the people at

13:08

the party, Jennifer McCabe and

13:11

Brian Albert, and they're going to

13:13

say, John and Karen didn't come to the party.

13:16

Jennifer says that she saw a

13:18

large black SUV park outside the

13:20

house and then turn around and leave. So

13:23

the people at the party are saying they never showed

13:25

up and Karen

13:27

saying, I dropped them off. So

13:30

from all of that, it sounds like something

13:32

must have happened with Karen and John and Karen

13:35

did make some statements that morning

13:38

that are concerning. Karen

13:40

said she told Kerry Roberts and Jennifer McCabe

13:43

that she cracked her tail light saying, I

13:45

just hit my car on top of everything.

13:48

According to Karen, they told her it's cracked.

13:50

It's cracked. Calm down. You cracked your tail

13:52

light. You're okay. Let's go look for John.

13:55

So again, this is something

13:57

that supposedly happened later. in

14:00

the morning. And Jennifer McCabe told

14:02

the police that Karen asked her in the car, could

14:04

I have hit him? Did I hit him? Paramedics

14:08

claimed they overheard Karen telling her friend,

14:10

I hit him, I hit

14:12

him. Of course, this is

14:14

something that Karen wants to clear up with the

14:16

media. She told ABC News,

14:18

I said, I hit him. It

14:21

was preceded by a did and preceded

14:23

by a question mark. What I thought

14:25

could have happened was that did I

14:28

incapacitate him unwittingly somehow and then in

14:30

his drunkenness, he passed out. She's

14:33

trying to clarify saying I'm not admitting

14:35

to hitting him. She's questioning, could

14:37

I have hit him? Investigators

14:40

will end up finding red pieces

14:42

of plastic at the scene that

14:45

matched the missing pieces from

14:47

Karen's tail light. More

14:50

fragments were found the following week after

14:52

the snow had melted. That's

14:55

interesting. They of

14:57

course take Karen's SUV in for

14:59

processing and this processing

15:01

was done on February 1st. Now,

15:04

investigators concluded her backup camera

15:06

was functioning. Of course, that

15:08

only matters if someone's looking at

15:10

that, right? And

15:13

if your car is covered with ice

15:15

and snow, sometimes you can't see out

15:17

that camera. But according to

15:19

a lot of the security camera

15:21

footage I watched, they parked their car

15:23

in a garage so it didn't have any snow

15:25

on it, so nothing to obscure the backup cam.

15:29

Human hair was found on the rear of the

15:32

vehicle and fragments of broken

15:34

glass was found on the rear bumper.

15:37

But this glass may have

15:39

come from a broken cocktail glass

15:41

because there was a broken cocktail

15:43

glass around John's body.

15:46

This is obviously from one of those bars

15:48

they had just left. That's

15:51

a lot of evidence tying Karen

15:53

to whatever happened to John. Talking

15:56

about human hair, broken glass, broken

15:58

tail light fragments. These are

16:01

all things that can be tied together. And

16:04

John was last seen on surveillance video

16:06

with a cocktail glass in his right

16:08

hand. That same right

16:10

hand, right arm was

16:12

injured in whatever incident

16:14

occurred. It has the cuts and

16:16

scratches and stuff on it. And

16:19

another inconsistency here is when

16:22

Karen is asked about how

16:24

much did you have to drink that night? She

16:27

said probably about four. This

16:29

is the typical, how many have you had? Oh, just

16:32

one or two. At the first

16:34

bar, it showed her having six or seven. And

16:37

investigators and prosecutor are alleging she

16:39

had up to nine drinks. And

16:42

her BAC was between 0.13

16:44

and 0.29. Karen

16:49

becomes suspect number one. John's

16:52

dead. Karen was the last person to

16:54

be with him. She says that

16:56

she dropped them off, but he's dead

16:58

outside the home, outside of Albert's home.

17:01

And there is evidence here connecting

17:04

her, her SUV, and John and

17:06

his injuries. She's

17:08

going to be arrested February 1st and

17:11

charged with second degree murder,

17:13

mortar vehicle manslaughter while

17:15

under the influence of alcohol

17:17

and leaving the scene of

17:19

a collision causing death. Pretty

17:22

straightforward. Investigators

17:25

are alleging that Karen hit John with her car

17:27

because they had gotten into an argument and

17:30

they just left him to die in

17:32

a snowstorm. They

17:35

say that they believe she backed her car

17:37

into John while making a three point turn.

17:39

The court documents say Karen did not

17:42

see John enter the house. She

17:44

called John around 4.30 a.m.

17:46

and went out with two friends to look

17:48

for him. One of

17:50

the friends told investigators that Karen

17:53

questioned if she had hit John.

17:56

Karen told the other friend that she drank

17:58

so much she doesn't remember the the night.

18:01

The friend believed Karen was

18:03

still intoxicated that morning,

18:05

and police said Karen's friends later

18:07

found her SUV parked outside her

18:09

parents' house, and the

18:11

rear tail light was shattered.

18:15

Well, it's interesting because there's this

18:17

question here. If Karen

18:19

was responsible, did she knowingly

18:21

do it as prosecutors are

18:23

alleging, or was this an

18:25

accident? But as we're going

18:27

to find out, there is a third possibility.

18:31

So Karen's indicted on June

18:33

9th. She was rearrested. She

18:35

pleaded not guilty to the

18:37

charges. The Assistant

18:39

District Attorney, Adam Lally, said at the

18:41

hearing, the victim and the defendant had

18:44

been arguing for quite some time, numerous

18:46

times over the weeks preceding this, that

18:48

on one occasion the victim had attempted

18:50

to break up with the defendant, had

18:52

asked her to leave his home, and

18:55

she refused to do so. This

18:58

is where things take a turn in

19:00

September here of 2022. This is where the whole case

19:05

changes and there are a lot

19:08

of advocates for Karen out there.

19:10

There is a huge movement supporting

19:12

Karen. Karen and her

19:14

attorneys argue that there

19:16

was a cover-up involving the state

19:18

and local police. They

19:20

pointed out John's injuries that night

19:23

and claimed Brian Albert, the homeowner,

19:25

had connections with the Canton police

19:28

and state police. They're

19:30

trying to say that John's

19:32

wounds were more consistent with

19:34

an animal attack, and Brian

19:37

Albert has a German Shepherd

19:39

that was rehomed after John's

19:41

death, meaning they got rid

19:43

of the dog, so trying

19:45

to cover up how John O'Keefe

19:48

actually died. Brian

19:50

Albert told a grand jury that his

19:52

dog was inside on the night John

19:54

died. Jackson said if the

19:56

dog was inside, that meant John was

19:58

inside the house. his injuries were

20:00

sustained at the time he was killed.

20:03

It could also mean his body had been

20:05

moved. So Jackson, the defense attorney saying John

20:08

came into the house, was attacked by the

20:10

dog, was injured and you

20:12

moved John outside of the house

20:14

that night. They're also

20:16

going to use phone data that

20:18

suggests that John walked up and down

20:21

the stairs after Karen dropped him off,

20:24

which would suggest that he hadn't been hit by

20:26

a vehicle. But the judge

20:28

granted the defense's request for information

20:30

on the dog and a hair

20:32

and saliva sample. Now

20:34

Karen had met up with these two other women

20:36

to look for John. Her attorneys

20:39

are now claiming that Jennifer McCabe

20:41

inserted herself into the search for

20:43

John O'Keefe, making every effort to

20:45

delay misread in returning to the

20:47

Albert residence to look for him.

20:50

They also said Jennifer insisted they drive her

20:52

car back to John's home. So

20:56

Jennifer who's helping search is now

20:58

part of the conspiracy, part of

21:00

the coverup. Right. And

21:03

here's something they use as evidence. They

21:05

note that Jennifer made two calls at 607 and

21:07

608 AM to her sister

21:11

who was with the group the night before.

21:13

And Jennifer deleted those call

21:15

logs. She called Brian Albert

21:18

at 623 AM and deleted

21:20

that call. Hours later,

21:22

Jennifer McCabe allegedly deleted Brian's

21:24

contact information off her phone.

21:28

Obviously trying to cover up something

21:30

here if she's deleting these call

21:32

logs. Right. And

21:34

they get this information because they

21:36

are looking through her

21:39

phone. They found that after

21:41

she supposedly deleted Brian's contact

21:43

information, she also looked

21:45

up an article titled, how long

21:47

does it take to digest food?

21:50

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21:52

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23:51

defense claim that Brian and his

23:53

wife were some of the first

23:55

people to be notified that John

23:57

was unresponsive on their front lawn,

23:59

but... but they made no effort

24:01

to go outside and see what was

24:03

going on or perform first aid, anything.

24:06

So they just left them out there. On

24:10

February 1st, Jennifer McCabe told

24:12

the police that once they got to

24:14

the house, Karen started yelling

24:16

at her to Google,

24:18

how long do you have to be left

24:21

outside to die from hypothermia? This

24:23

is again another indication that maybe

24:26

Jennifer McCabe is trying to suggest

24:29

something happened here between Karen and

24:31

John. So Karen's

24:33

attorneys file a motion in

24:35

the Superior Court. They

24:38

want an analysis of the

24:40

complete forensic image of Jennifer

24:42

McCabe's cell phone by computer

24:45

forensic expert Richard Green. They're

24:47

just trying to establish all

24:50

of these statements, what

24:52

was Googled, how long

24:54

to die in the cold, just

24:56

trying to verify everything that's happening

24:58

here and which texts were deleted.

25:01

So this is what they're trying

25:03

to prove as the cover up. Jennifer

25:07

made the search when John

25:09

was presumably in the front

25:11

lawn of Brian Albert's house.

25:14

Doesn't look good. They

25:17

also want to summon Brian Albert as

25:19

well as Verizon and AT&T for call

25:21

logs, location records and phone data for

25:23

both Brian Albert and Jennifer McCabe, as

25:25

well as the cell phones they owned

25:27

or used from January 28th to February

25:30

5th of 2022. And

25:33

the defense attorney, Alan Jackson, wrote

25:35

in an affidavit that the defense

25:37

has already uncovered significant steps to

25:40

delete and tamper with evidence that

25:42

was provided to law enforcement and

25:44

misrepresent what occurred on the night

25:46

in question in an attempt

25:49

to interfere with the investigation into

25:51

John McCabe's death. He's

25:53

not wrong. I mean, there were call

25:55

logs that were deleted. So there

25:58

does seem to be bit

26:00

of tomfoolery going on here. They're

26:03

also showing that lead state

26:05

police investigator Michael Proctor associated

26:08

socially with a family involved in

26:10

the case. So they have an

26:12

image showing him in a wedding photo from 2012, at least

26:14

one member of the McCabe

26:17

family was a ring bearer. One

26:20

photo from 2016 and another from

26:22

2017 shows Proctor at family gatherings

26:25

with people from the McCabe family.

26:28

And now they're trying to show you can't trust

26:30

an investigation here because these people have

26:33

ties. Not only do

26:35

they have ties, but these people

26:37

were making statements publicly into the media

26:39

that they didn't even know each other.

26:42

And that's why the defense is coming down

26:44

so hard on this saying, hey, you

26:46

guys said that you don't have a

26:48

conflict of interest, but we have images

26:50

of you at weddings together. So

26:53

you do know each other. Defense

26:55

attorneys, they want John's clothes, the

26:58

tail light pieces, autopsy samples, and

27:00

Canton Library surveillance videos. They

27:02

claim that they don't have access to that

27:05

evidence. So of course,

27:07

you've said earlier that there were signs

27:09

that possibly John was beaten and the

27:12

defense claims that the autopsy photos

27:14

show this. They argue that he

27:17

had injuries to his face, the back of his

27:19

head, and some wounds on

27:21

his arms were consistent with dog bites.

27:24

And this dog they're talking about was

27:27

named Chloe. It was

27:29

the family's dog for seven years. And

27:32

then after John O'Keefe's death, suddenly

27:34

it's rehomed. It's gone. It

27:37

looks suspicious. I mean, it's like

27:39

selling your wife's car after

27:41

she disappears. So one

27:43

of Karen's attorneys, David Yannetti, spoke

27:45

with Court TV and he

27:47

said, someone being hit by a car, I

27:49

would submit, does not look like they had

27:52

been punched out by Mike Tyson. I believe

27:54

the evidence shows that she didn't hit him.

27:56

I've said in the past that his injuries are not consistent

27:58

with being hit by a car. vehicle. So

28:01

this is really coming down to if

28:04

he was actually hit by a vehicle, then Karen

28:07

had something to do with it. If

28:09

he wasn't hit by a vehicle, then

28:11

there's a cover up here. Jennifer McCabe's

28:14

attorney told the Boston Herald

28:16

that my client, Jennifer McCabe,

28:18

has been vilified in pleadings.

28:21

They're spinning it. It's going nowhere.

28:24

The whole scenario is baseless.

28:26

They added that Jennifer had passed

28:28

a polygraph test, and they're

28:31

just trying to defend the reputation of

28:33

their client. It

28:35

is important that we mention here that

28:38

there's been no conviction. And

28:40

so at this point, we can speculate,

28:42

but really, Karen Reed, she

28:44

has been taken a beating in

28:47

the media, and it's not

28:49

really fair to say that she's definitely guilty

28:51

here. Again, the autopsy,

28:53

that's where if it was done

28:55

correctly, it should show us what

28:57

actually happened. And Jennifer

28:59

McCabe is not on trial. All

29:02

these other people are not on trial. The

29:04

defense is going after

29:06

them publicly and in trial.

29:09

So that's why they're all lawyering up

29:11

and making public statements. And

29:14

as for deleting things, who

29:17

knows? I mean, what if Jennifer

29:19

is just that type of person to always

29:21

delete things like that? I mean, you

29:23

can say that's not likely, but that's where

29:25

maybe if they did look at her phone

29:27

forensically, they would see whether this is a

29:29

common thing or not. And if it's not

29:31

common, well, then that is

29:34

something you add to your conspiracy

29:36

theory list if you're looking for

29:38

evidence. And when it

29:40

comes to the search, how long to

29:43

die from hypothermia, it's said

29:45

that she made that search the

29:48

morning when she's helping Karen search

29:50

for him. And I'm thinking,

29:52

well, that actually could

29:54

make sense because he's

29:56

been missing for several hours.

30:00

does it take someone to die of

30:02

hypothermia? It could be

30:04

a valid search and not as suspicious.

30:06

You could see it both ways, I

30:08

get it. So the

30:10

Norfolk DA's office responded to

30:12

the defense's April motion saying,

30:15

it's a fishing expedition for

30:17

evidence of a purported conspiracy

30:20

amongst those witnesses supported merely

30:22

by speculation and conjecture. The

30:25

prosecution claimed that the same phone, it

30:28

was an iPhone that searched how long to die

30:30

in the cold, was searching for

30:32

a youth basketball website at the same

30:34

time. I just want to harp

30:36

on this for one second, Aaron. If I had

30:38

dropped you off somewhere and then I didn't hear

30:40

from you for hours in the middle of a

30:42

snowstorm and I was trying to find you, I

30:45

might be like, how long can someone last

30:47

out in the cold because I'm really worried

30:49

about Aaron? That is a

30:51

logical explanation for that search. But

30:54

on the face of it, between deleted

30:56

texts and calls and

30:59

then this, it does look suspicious.

31:02

Well, and they also hit back

31:04

against the suggestion that John O'Keefe

31:06

went up and down the steps

31:08

near the house or was approaching

31:10

the door and leaving the door

31:13

before he died because they

31:15

said there were entries that suggested that

31:17

John O'Keefe was walking after his time

31:19

of death. So they're

31:21

saying, forget about what the phone is

31:24

saying about his movements. If he's showing

31:26

that he's moving after he's dead,

31:28

that's not making any sense either.

31:30

So they're saying, throw out the

31:32

phone data about movement because they

31:34

said it's just irrelevant at that

31:37

point. And I know

31:39

our phones are fairly accurate

31:41

these days, but can

31:44

they really pinpoint him from the driveway

31:46

to the stairs? I

31:48

can pull up my phone right now and

31:50

it actually shows me next door and not

31:52

at my house. I

31:54

don't put that much weight

31:56

on. Did it show him 10 feet from where

31:58

he should have been? then? Well,

32:01

not only that, but the phone supposedly

32:03

can show if someone's going up and

32:05

down stairs. That's

32:08

what the defense is claiming here, that

32:10

he went up and down stairs, possibly

32:12

after he entered the home. But

32:14

of course, the prosecution says that John used

32:17

his phone to navigate to the house, but

32:19

didn't arrive at the house until 12.24 AM, which would be

32:21

after the time

32:24

that the phone is showing that he's going up and

32:26

down stairs. So again,

32:29

they're saying, don't rely on this

32:31

iPhone data. So the

32:33

prosecution is also hitting back on the

32:35

fact that they're saying there is

32:37

no sign of John being in a fight

32:39

the night he died. They said

32:42

the abrasions were caused by a blunt

32:44

object and bleeding and swelling around the

32:46

eyes were related to small skull fractures.

32:50

And the prosecutors are disputing the

32:52

defense's claim that one of the

32:54

state troopers was a family friend

32:57

or involved in

32:59

this case. The photo that allegedly

33:01

shows him at a family gathering

33:03

does not show the McCabe

33:05

family. So they're saying

33:07

all these Facebook images that you're pulling

33:09

up, they're not exactly what they seem.

33:13

Now, John's niece and nephew

33:15

told investigators that John and

33:18

Karen argued often. John's

33:20

niece said that a week before

33:22

her uncle died, she heard him

33:25

tell the defendant that their relationship

33:27

had run its course and that

33:29

it isn't healthy. So this is

33:31

John telling Karen, we're

33:33

over. And the investigators are

33:36

going through Karen's cell phone

33:38

and determine that Karen and

33:40

John's relationship was strained. John

33:43

wanted to end the relationship

33:45

and Karen described their relationship

33:47

as toxic. This sounds

33:49

mutual between the two. They don't

33:52

like each other anymore. The

33:54

niece said Karen woke her up at

33:56

4.30 AM. Karen was screaming

33:58

and acting frantic. authentic, she said

34:01

Karen changed her story several

34:03

times when speaking to Jennifer.

34:06

So this is all the

34:08

night of according to John's

34:10

niece. Now the

34:12

prosecutors are submitting a timeline of

34:14

events before and after John's death.

34:17

They're going to lay it out for the jury. 737 p.m.

34:19

January 28th, John's scene arriving at CF McCarthy's

34:25

in Canton. Karen arrived separately at

34:27

851. At 858, a bartender was seen handing

34:33

Karen a glass containing clear liquid with a

34:35

lime in it. She was given another

34:37

glass at 915, 920, 933, 957, and 1022. That's a lot

34:39

of drinks. John and Karen were captured leaving

34:48

the bar at 1040 p.m. Karen

34:51

had a drink in her hand.

34:54

They arrived at the Waterfall Bar and Grill

34:56

at 1054 p.m. Karen

34:59

and two women left Waterfall

35:02

at 1210 a.m. John

35:04

left moments later taking a

35:06

sip from a glass in his right hand. He

35:09

met Karen at 1211 and they walked down

35:12

the street together. At

35:14

1214, John texted his friend,

35:16

where to, and received the

35:18

address to Brian Albert's home.

35:21

At 1215 a.m., a vehicle that

35:24

looks like Karen's was seen driving past

35:26

the Canton Library. 1218, John

35:29

made a phone call to ask for directions.

35:32

1231, John received the

35:35

text from the homeowner's sister that

35:37

said hello. So this

35:40

is definitely going through getting

35:43

them to the house. At

35:46

1240, John receives a text saying,

35:48

pull up behind me. A witness

35:51

saw a black SUV, moved to

35:53

the far left of the property

35:55

near a flagpole and fire hydrant

35:58

where John's body was found. found.

36:01

1245, a

36:03

witness sent another message saying

36:06

hello and saw the

36:08

SUV drive away. So

36:10

this witness is texting John's

36:13

phone but not receiving

36:15

any replies. And if

36:17

something happened to John before

36:20

1230, he's getting these

36:22

texts and he's not replying because something's already

36:24

happened to him. That's what the prosecutors are

36:26

trying to show here with this timeline that

36:29

they'll use going forward. And

36:31

this witness, this person is at

36:33

the house. So that

36:36

would be premeditated if it was John

36:38

coming in being attacked and then being

36:40

left out in the cold. These

36:42

texts are coming and saying, I saw the

36:44

SUV, where you at? Here's instructions to the

36:47

house. So keep that in mind. Between

36:50

1.30 and 2 a.m., a guest at the

36:52

party got her right home. She

36:54

indicated that she thought she saw something.

36:56

She described a dark object in the

36:58

snow by the flagpole but didn't know

37:01

what it was. Jennifer

37:03

received a call at 4.53 a.m. from

37:05

John's niece. Jennifer

37:09

said she saw John at waterfall.

37:12

The niece is asking, where's John? She said, well,

37:14

I saw him at waterfall. That was last time

37:16

I saw him. And Karen called

37:18

her friend, Kerry Roberts, at

37:20

5 a.m. and told Roberts,

37:23

I wonder if he's dead. It's snowing.

37:25

He got hit by a plow. That's

37:28

a very strange statement. Karen's

37:31

vehicles captured on camera traveling on

37:33

the path from the previous night,

37:35

driving around 5.30. Karen

37:38

and Kerry Roberts arrived at

37:40

Jennifer's home. Karen was

37:43

hysterical. Karen was driving back

37:45

to John's house. This was

37:47

when she asked, could I have

37:49

hit him? Did I hit him?

37:51

And mentioned the cracked taillight. And

37:55

while at John's house, Karen had shown

37:57

her friends the cracked taillight. They

37:59

all got in the same car went looking for

38:01

John. The friend who was driving said

38:03

it was snowing heavily, visibility was poor.

38:06

But when they got to the house, Karen immediately

38:08

said she saw John, but they

38:10

didn't see him. They just

38:12

know Karen headed right over for John.

38:14

They're looking around, they didn't see anything.

38:18

Some people could look at that and think

38:20

because she knew where he was. The

38:24

first officer on scene saw three women

38:26

near a flagpole and fire hydrant. Two

38:28

of them were attempting to perform CPR.

38:31

John was cold to the touch, not breathing.

38:34

And of course, as we said, John was pronounced dead at

38:36

the hospital, which was at 7.50 a.m. Now

38:40

Karen had her blood drawn at the hospital

38:42

at 9.08 a.m. A

38:44

forensic toxicologist found that her BAC was

38:47

0.07% to 0.08% and opined that around

38:49

12.45 a.m. it would have been between

38:51

0.13 and 0.29%. This

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first month. So,

40:00

there is a hearing that took place on May 3, 2023. That

40:04

focused on the scratches on John's arm. The

40:07

defense wanted to test samples to see

40:10

if it would show that John was

40:12

attacked by the dog, by Chloe. Later

40:15

that month, a judge denied the defense's

40:17

request to interview Brian Albert and Jennifer

40:19

McCabe at an evidentiary hearing. The

40:22

judge also denied the defense access to

40:24

their cell phones and agreed to quash

40:27

subpoenas for both potential witnesses. This

40:29

is where, again, people point out and say, oh,

40:31

they're covering for Brian and Jennifer. The

40:34

defense accused prosecutors of concealing the

40:36

evidence for over a year. Like

40:39

we said, they wanted access to what

40:41

they call the evidence, Brian's clothes, the

40:43

broken tail light, autopsy samples. They

40:46

claimed they were barred from seeing this evidence

40:48

and that no testing had been done. So,

40:52

they're saying because testing isn't

40:54

being done, that this evidence

40:56

would unequivocally exonerate Karen because

40:58

it established that the individuals who were in the

41:01

house were aware that John was dying in the

41:03

snow before Karen even knew he was missing. But

41:06

of course, prosecutors say lab testing

41:08

takes time. And

41:10

the items they were requesting had not

41:12

been tested yet. Therefore,

41:15

we can't give them to you. They're

41:17

sitting there in a queue waiting because

41:19

the gears of justice turn slowly. They

41:23

were looking into Jennifer's phone and

41:25

that Google search. They

41:28

said that her search did not

41:30

occur at 2.27 AM as

41:32

stated by the defense because that

41:35

2.27 would be before Jennifer would

41:38

have known John was missing or in the

41:40

yard. And

41:42

so, that data from Jennifer's cell

41:44

phone is unreliable. This is

41:46

according to the people that were analyzing

41:49

her phone and that whole, how long

41:51

does it take to die from hypothermia

41:53

didn't happen at 2.27. So,

41:56

after this hearing, Karen spoke to reporters for

41:58

the first time. And she

42:01

said, it feels like we're the only ones

42:03

fighting for the truth of what happened to

42:05

John O'Keefe and me and my family and

42:07

my attorneys and my team have marshaled every

42:09

resource to get the truth. It

42:11

just feels like no one else wants it. So

42:13

of course you have a reporter asking, did you

42:16

commit this crime? And Karen said,

42:18

we know who did it, we know, and we know

42:20

who spearheaded this cover up. You all

42:22

know. I tried to save his life. I tried to

42:24

save his life at six in the morning. I was

42:26

covered in his blood. I was the only one trying

42:29

to save his life. She

42:31

did get covered in his blood because she laid on

42:33

top of him. Now

42:35

this obviously is a case that

42:37

had taken a turn. As

42:40

I said in September of 2022, that's

42:42

when this went from could Karen have

42:44

accidentally hit John or did she hit

42:47

him on purpose? It went from that

42:49

to becoming, oh no, there's a

42:51

conspiracy here. And John was attacked by a

42:53

dog and people. And it

42:55

was just left out in the snow after he

42:57

was attacked and left to die. That's

43:01

how, I mean, I hate to use the word, but

43:03

that's how crazy this case has gotten. And

43:06

I'm sure anybody listening to us right

43:08

now has read and listened to everything

43:10

they can get their hands and ears

43:12

on related to this case. There

43:15

are protesters outside of the courthouse.

43:18

There was a standing ovation for

43:20

Karen when she walked into the

43:23

courtroom during the, pre-hearing,

43:25

the defense attorney was talking about how

43:28

the prosecution has made all these things

43:30

public and they had a zoom call. And

43:35

apparently some of the activists were

43:37

on the zoom call saying Karen's

43:39

innocent and interrupting the court proceedings.

43:42

That's how strongly people feel about

43:44

this case and her innocence. In

43:49

August of 2023, Karen's attorney, Alan

43:51

Jackson talked to ABC and he

43:54

believed in his statement

43:56

that the taillight pieces from

43:58

Karen's SUV were... planted after

44:01

the fact. And he said,

44:03

I think he walked into the house.

44:05

I think he was confronted, was likely

44:07

brought down to the basement. I think

44:09

that confrontation got physical and he was

44:11

beaten to a point of unconsciousness. He

44:14

added, this was a coverup. John was

44:16

murdered inside that house. His body was

44:18

placed outside. And he went on

44:20

to reference John's autopsy photos that he says

44:22

show bruises on the back of John's hands,

44:24

a laceration on the back of his head,

44:26

a large gash, two black eyes, a cut

44:29

over his right eye and a cut over

44:31

his nose. Of course,

44:33

this is quite a statement that he's saying

44:35

this was a murder and a coverup by

44:37

those in the house. I

44:39

would love to know why there is a motive

44:42

for this to happen, because I feel

44:44

like that's missing. What's this motive

44:46

for Albert and the others to kill John

44:48

and to cover it up? I mean, they

44:50

make it sound like they sick the dog

44:52

on him and attacked him and

44:55

then put him outside. Aaron,

44:57

John stepped on the dog's tail

44:59

and that's what caused this whole

45:02

altercation. It's simple. He

45:04

stepped on the dog's tail, right? They're

45:06

making some big claims here. And if they want

45:08

to say that John stepped on the dog's tail

45:11

and this started as an accident and then became

45:13

a coverup, fine. But I would like

45:15

to hear that because right now all I'm getting

45:18

is it's a conspiracy and

45:20

I'm not sure where they're getting that

45:22

from. I know a lot of people

45:25

reference that Albert is well connected. He's

45:27

kind of a big deal, like you said, a super

45:29

cop. A lot of people would probably go to bat

45:31

for him, but that doesn't necessarily

45:33

mean that suddenly there's a conspiracy here.

45:36

Is it possible that he could orchestrate a

45:38

conspiracy? Maybe, but I need somewhere to

45:40

start. I mean, when you try to

45:43

use Occam's razor, Karen and John

45:45

are having relationship issues.

45:48

Karen's drunk. Very drunk. You

45:50

know, you say that. I'm really

45:52

surprised that Karen hasn't stuck by

45:54

the did I accidentally hit him

45:56

angle because she was drunk. We

45:59

can go. with Occam's razor and say

46:02

she was drunk, they were

46:04

fighting and she even accidentally

46:06

hit him. But if you

46:08

look at the autopsy and you're like, okay,

46:10

well, there are scratches, there are marks on

46:12

him, well, now I'm thinking,

46:15

did she get out and have an altercation with

46:17

him and then get in the car and run

46:19

over him? Because there's broken

46:21

glass from a cocktail glass on

46:24

the bumper and then you have

46:26

the taillight fragments. Sorry,

46:29

Aaron, but the audacity of someone

46:31

to say they planted the taillight

46:33

fragments there is insane to me.

46:36

Did they plant the broken glass and the hair as

46:38

well? Yeah, they

46:40

planted everything. In

46:42

the time from 1.30 to what, five

46:44

in the morning, they

46:47

went back to Karen's house, got fragments

46:49

from the taillight that she alleges she

46:51

hit a parked car and I saw

46:54

the video that she comes really close

46:56

to the parked car, but

46:58

it's unclear whether she hit the parked car or

47:01

not. But the fact that if they're saying she

47:03

hit a parked car and that's what cracked the

47:05

taillight, it's like she can't even drive properly that

47:07

she hit the parked car. How

47:09

can we assume that she didn't hit John?

47:12

All of the arguments just start to

47:14

fall apart and when they

47:16

say that broken taillight fragments were planted

47:18

on him, that's when I check out.

47:21

I'm sorry, I just go, nope,

47:24

they would have had to have gone to her house

47:26

and broken into her garage and

47:28

taken these taillight pieces. Or

47:31

was this in the morning when Karen

47:33

goes and gets with Jennifer and Jennifer

47:35

runs over to the taillight and pulls

47:37

some pieces off and throws it on

47:39

John, like what? What? Have

47:41

you seen the pictures of where John's

47:44

body was? Yeah,

47:46

what was your observation there? There's

47:48

a lot of snow. I'm just wondering

47:51

if you have people trying to do a

47:53

cover up here and plant evidence, wouldn't there

47:55

be evidence of these people doing all of

47:57

that? The like footsteps

47:59

going. dragging his body out there,

48:02

something to that effect? There seems

48:04

to be a disconnect here with the environment that

48:06

it's in. Now granted, if there wasn't snow all

48:08

over the ground, I could see where

48:11

you could speculate. You could say, oh, maybe this

48:13

happened, maybe that happened, but there's a

48:15

lot of snow on the ground. And I

48:17

just feel like there would be evidence of this. Between

48:20

the broken glass, whether

48:22

it was a cocktail glass or whatever it was, and

48:25

the tail light fragments, I

48:27

can't get past that. Sure,

48:29

there were some suspicious things happening,

48:31

deleted call logs and things like

48:33

that, in the search for how

48:36

long to die from hypothermia. It

48:38

doesn't look good, but

48:40

there are some logical explanations

48:43

for those things. There

48:45

isn't logical explanations for

48:48

fragments from the tail light being planted on his

48:50

body. That's the game stopper for

48:52

me, where I just check out. And

48:55

the text messages to John

48:58

prior to the whole event, people

49:01

giving him instructions, giving him directions to

49:04

the house, and then where are

49:06

you? I saw an SUV. That

49:08

would mean that they pre-planned

49:10

to murder John. And

49:12

they're trying to cover it up with these

49:15

text messages saying, oh, where are you at?

49:17

I saw your car, or I saw Karen's

49:19

car. None of that adds

49:21

up. That's my problem with

49:23

it, and I know Karen's supporters

49:25

will completely disagree with me and

49:27

have all kinds of explanations for

49:30

the broken tail light pieces and

49:32

why text messages were being sent.

49:34

But it doesn't add up,

49:37

and the simplest explanation is either

49:39

this was an accident or intentional.

49:41

I could give it as an accident, because

49:44

if you're 0.2 BAC level and in snow, and

49:50

you're trying to do a three-point turn, you

49:52

could hit somebody and run over them and

49:54

drag them under your vehicle a little bit.

49:56

And because it's snow, you might not understand

49:58

you're dragging a body. and that

50:01

would cause cuts, scratches, scrapes, and

50:03

lacerations all over them on their

50:05

arms and to their head. Well,

50:08

some might say that they didn't

50:10

find this glass around John in

50:13

their initial searches. They found it

50:15

later, all because of the

50:17

broken tail light angle. That's what led them

50:20

to really look and then suddenly discover this. So

50:22

they think that was planted. They

50:24

go, we need this to make more sense, so

50:26

we have to come up with some broken glass. But

50:29

it's really a tough sell for me because I don't

50:32

know that in an initial search that you're

50:34

necessarily going to find everything. That's why there's

50:36

more than one search. That's why

50:38

it's called an initial search. You

50:41

don't even know what you're looking for much of the

50:43

time, right? I mean, you just take a look and

50:45

then after you see something like a broken tail light

50:47

and you think, oh, we're looking for broken tail light.

50:49

Oh, wait, now we're seeing this other glass as well.

50:51

It's a big stretch. They make it sound

50:53

like there was a problem because, oh, now they're doing

50:56

this. Now we have to figure this part out. I

51:00

mean, if it was planted, when was it planted? They're

51:02

basically saying, well, the glass had to

51:05

be added later. And

51:08

there's anywhere from four

51:10

to 20 inches of snow out here. So, yeah,

51:12

maybe they missed the glass. It's

51:15

possible. And finding glass

51:17

in the snow, I don't know.

51:20

This is just a stretch for me. And again,

51:22

is it possible that there's a cover

51:24

up here? I do understand

51:26

that people with power can exercise that

51:29

power. It happens, but I

51:31

need the dots to be connected. And

51:33

it's a real stretch here. When

51:36

I got done looking through this whole thing, it really

51:38

seemed to me like it was

51:40

either an accident or an on-purpose

51:43

hit by this SUV. That's

51:45

my theory. I'm not saying that's what happened.

51:48

That's just my theory because Karen Reed is

51:50

going to head to trial this year in

51:52

2024. That's what

51:54

it looks like anyway. So if

51:57

she does go to trial in March of 2024, then

52:01

maybe we'll get some answers. I mean,

52:03

all this evidence, it would be tested, they'll

52:06

use it in court, we'll find out

52:08

what really happened. That's how I look at

52:10

it. But

52:12

again, we've lived through

52:14

COVID times and conspiracy

52:16

theories and 5G

52:19

networks spreading viruses. Regardless

52:21

of the outcome of the trial,

52:24

I know supporters will still believe

52:26

in her and think everything was

52:28

planted and they won't accept that

52:30

this was how it played

52:32

out. What

52:35

I'm left with with this case is there

52:37

is a trial coming up for Karen Reed.

52:40

I'm very much interested in that trial.

52:42

I believe I'll be watching it if

52:44

possible. And in

52:47

regards to John's niece and nephew, they've

52:50

suffered something horrible here. They've

52:52

lost their parents and now they've lost their

52:55

uncle. And they've

52:57

also lost Karen Reed. Karen

52:59

was also helping to raise those

53:01

kids. Hey

54:05

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