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Today on The Grave Talks, part

0:49

two of our conversation about the

0:52

old Licking County Jail in Newark,

0:54

Ohio. The

1:07

old Licking County Jail was a jail

1:09

for nearly 100 years. Over

1:13

20 deaths happen within its walls,

1:15

and it's no surprise that legends

1:17

of hauntings circulate around

1:19

the jail. Disembodied

1:22

voices have been reported regularly

1:24

in the cell blocks, ranging

1:26

from whispering into people's ears

1:28

to loud, echoing bellows audible

1:31

throughout the halls. Today

1:34

we'll talk about the history and the hauntings of

1:37

the old Licking County Jail

1:40

with paranormal coordinator Darren Smith.

1:44

In a place like that, especially when

1:46

we talked earlier about the really brutal

1:48

conditions these prisoners had to live

1:51

in, there had to have been a lot

1:53

of mental illness amongst

1:55

the prisoners, a lot of trauma,

1:57

I would assume death,

1:59

because... because they weren't exactly

2:01

housed very humanely. Yeah,

2:04

and energy's entered, period. And

2:08

the best way to explain that is like

2:10

the haunted attraction. I'm open two months. So

2:14

every weekend, every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday,

2:16

I'm rushing 700 and

2:18

800 people through that building, screaming

2:20

and yelling, they're scared. The

2:23

emotions are high, whether it's happy or sad.

2:26

The actors and their energy. The

2:28

best ghost hunt to do is

2:30

book one right after the haunted attraction's

2:32

over. That's when the energy

2:34

in the building is the highest. I

2:36

never thought about that, but that makes sense.

2:40

Yeah, and it's not an excuse, because a

2:42

lot of paranormal people don't like haunted attractions

2:44

in these buildings. Just because

2:46

of that, they have different opinions. In my opinion,

2:48

I'm the one that has to tear the haunt

2:50

down, clean up the building, you

2:53

know, bring it back to normal before the

2:55

next event. I experience things,

2:57

I'm used to it, so it doesn't really, but

2:59

I've had some of the actors help me, you

3:02

know, they'll volunteer to come help clean and tear

3:04

down the attraction, and

3:07

they'll have things happen. And they're like, oh my God,

3:09

I just saw this, or I heard that, and it's

3:11

like, yeah, it's normal. Then

3:13

you get into like the off season,

3:15

where it's just ghost hunts on the weekends,

3:17

tours here and there, our show

3:20

or whatever we have, and it's quiet.

3:23

You can walk in there and sit all night, and nothing

3:25

happens. It's just

3:27

a claim, I don't know that that's true. Makes

3:30

sense. I get, people fight over

3:32

that first ghost hunt. And

3:34

we put our dates out in February.

3:38

The first phone call you get is, I want

3:40

the one in November, first week of

3:42

November, or the one right after the haunt. And

3:45

it goes first every year. That's

3:47

interesting. And sometimes

3:49

nothing happens, and most of the time it

3:51

does, but a lot of that stuff, it

3:53

depends on the people that are ghost hunting

3:55

too. Your energy, if it's high,

3:57

you're gonna have a good night. And

4:00

I'm still learning just like everybody else. Nobody

4:02

knows the truth, but I've

4:06

been to locations where I could sleep on the floor Because

4:09

it was so quiet and but the guy that was

4:11

there the night before it's like, oh my god The

4:13

roof was falling in there were so many ghosts or

4:15

whatever. I'm going there nothing

4:17

happens Like they're

4:19

on demand either. No, you

4:21

don't know For you

4:24

might not And another

4:26

thing that happened there that is not

4:28

only was at prisoners. There was Some

4:31

sheriffs died in very similar manners

4:33

there Yeah, we've

4:35

had three sheriffs passed away in the same

4:37

bedroom, which the bedroom on that floor has

4:40

always been the master bedroom for the sheriff

4:43

Over the years three of them passed away of heart

4:45

elements whether it be a heart

4:48

attack or some kind of heart disease Last

4:51

one we had there was William

4:55

Howarth he didn't pass away in

4:57

the jail, but he had a heart attack in

4:59

his room same room And of

5:01

course, they got him outside and got him to the hospital before

5:03

he passed But

5:05

that was right after macarole had died

5:08

of a massive heart attack in the

5:10

bedroom on the bed But

5:13

they all have the heart attacks or

5:15

the incident in the bedroom in the

5:17

bed Yes, Wow

5:20

You know Ross Embry was the first one in 1934

5:24

His was a heart attack and then you

5:26

had Albert Roe Francis was a heart attack

5:29

in the same bedroom and

5:32

then macarole was 1962 and then Howarth

5:37

I can never remember what year it was wasn't long

5:39

after that Why would

5:41

I see? 1971

5:44

I don't know if that's correct But

5:47

that sounds right And

5:50

they do believe that they have sheriffs

5:52

who are still there or the jailers

5:55

Who are still there because that was their job

5:57

was to watch out

6:00

for these these prisoners and to

6:02

take care of them. And I mean, that's

6:04

a huge responsibility to keep them in the

6:06

building. Do you feel like- No, yeah,

6:08

it was their house. It was their home. True, yeah. Do

6:12

you feel like you have the presence

6:14

of any of them in the building?

6:18

We do have, once in a while, it

6:21

just depends on almost like a day. It depends

6:23

on what day it is, what time it is.

6:25

You will hear keys jingling in

6:27

the guardwalks or footsteps. For

6:31

a long time on the second floor, we kept hearing

6:34

a clicking. And it

6:36

was prominent clicking like a pin, like

6:39

you would open and close a pin. And

6:42

Terry was sitting at the desk one night

6:44

and she's like, you know, we keep hearing

6:46

that clicking in that one guardwalk, but it

6:48

moves. It sounds like something's clicking as it's

6:50

walking down the hallway. And

6:53

she's like, I wonder if it's a counter, you

6:55

know, like the sheriff walking through the deputy

6:58

counting the prisoners. And it's just a

7:01

claim nobody knows. But you know that

7:03

I haven't heard that in three years. It's

7:07

weird because, and that's another thing about

7:09

some of these places, jails big for

7:11

it. You'll have something that happens constantly

7:13

for a year, maybe a year and a

7:15

half. You know what it is. You

7:17

hear the footsteps in the same area, the

7:20

shadow figure in the same area for a year,

7:22

year and a half, off and on. Then

7:25

all of a sudden nobody

7:27

hears it, nobody sees it again. Then

7:29

it might come back. It's just, it's

7:32

like on a time loop. It's

7:34

gonna happen every day for this amount of time. And

7:36

then it's just gone. It's weird. We

7:40

used to have a door slam and it

7:42

took us two years to find what door was

7:44

slamming because you can't slam the cell doors are

7:46

too heavy. And it was a guardwalk

7:48

door. It set up a static

7:50

cam and we all went home for the weekend, reviewed

7:53

it, took us hours to review it, but we found

7:55

it was on the second floor cell block. It was

7:58

just slamming by itself. of

16:00

my neck, it just, all I felt was it

16:02

roll down the inside of my shirt. And

16:04

I'm like, Oh my God, my neck was just fell off.

16:07

Which is weird. Cause you get that sensation

16:09

like, Oh, you know what that feeling is.

16:12

Yeah. But then pulling it out had to have

16:14

been gentle actually. Else you would have felt it

16:16

on the back of your neck. Yeah.

16:19

And it's a, and we've had a lot

16:22

of tour guides get that experience down there

16:24

being touched or faintly

16:26

you feel something is around you

16:29

close. It's like that

16:31

to me was like, Hey, you're not telling

16:33

my story of when I died or how

16:36

I haunt this jail. So let me get their

16:38

attention. That's the way I looked at it. Or

16:41

did you get everything right? Is it

16:43

like you didn't tell my story correctly

16:46

and I'm trying to get your attention. You

16:49

know, you lay in bed at night going, Oh

16:51

my God, maybe that's what happened. You know, you

16:53

don't know the stuff you think about,

16:55

but of course now I'm used to it,

16:57

I've been doing it so long. Nothing really

16:59

impresses me. I mean, I love it

17:02

when things happen when people are there.

17:04

That way they don't think you're crazy when

17:06

you're telling these stories, but I'm used to

17:09

it, but to go to

17:11

another location that's haunted, I'm scared, just like anybody

17:13

else. You

17:17

know, your ghost, I guess better. Yeah.

17:19

But it does sound like the jail

17:21

has several hotspots. It

17:23

actually sounds like after

17:26

this conversation, like the entire jail is

17:28

a hotspot. Yeah. There's, there's

17:30

a lot of different spots and it changes. Used

17:34

to be the matrons kitchen. There

17:36

was an entity they called David before

17:38

my time, the ghost hunters before that were

17:41

running the place. Had a lot

17:43

of interaction with a name of David, which

17:46

we've dug and dug and dug and can't find

17:48

anything, but this

17:50

Justin Brown from interface deaths feeling

17:52

like. He's an

17:54

overpowered, you know, he's a little

17:56

man, probably a guard, and he

17:59

was probably sneaking. Upstairs to the

18:01

women's floor which was highly not

18:03

allowed in mistreating women

18:05

because sometimes you'll feel

18:07

him or a woman will feel his presence

18:09

And he's rude. He's mean he comes across

18:11

the ghost boxes rude if

18:14

you go into the cell block the women are I've

18:17

had people that can channel and They're

18:20

saying can't you see him standing there? You

18:22

know, you're looking down the cell block more. I don't see nobody It's

18:26

like the spirits saying he's standing there.

18:28

It's David or it's so-and-so And

18:31

we've had that several times especially with people

18:33

that can channel which really freaks me

18:35

out because now you're talking a ghost

18:38

talking through somebody and

18:40

that's not fun, but You

18:42

have to run through it and just trying to listen

18:44

and figure it all out But that's basically what everybody's

18:47

thinking now, but you know when you

18:49

think historically back on this jail 1889 to 1987

18:52

the record-keeping in that

18:55

time probably always Wasn't

18:57

real accurate. It's not like you can pull

18:59

it up on your computer Yeah,

19:02

and they probably hit a lot of stuff. I'm sure

19:06

There is one report of a guard

19:09

that was accused of rape, but that was in the 70s

19:11

and He was actually

19:13

brought to trial but the sheriff at the time

19:15

Sheriff Marston tried to cover it up But

19:18

it didn't work, but nobody died

19:20

in the situation Where

19:22

she ended up in prison, but his

19:24

name wasn't even David it was William so

19:27

who knows who this David is And

19:29

then you get the question. Well, why do you think

19:32

David's still there? Well, he knew he was doing wrong

19:35

He's scared to leave that jail because he

19:37

feels safe He could be punished

19:40

if he leaves the jail and you know the

19:42

afterworld who knows the whole jail has

19:45

When you tell people the claims you hit

19:47

the hot spots you get the David on

19:49

the fourth floor you get me may Varner

19:52

Third floor to me is the creepiest. I don't

19:54

know why I just have a bad feeling in

19:56

there. There's eight deaths all

19:59

suicide It's

22:00

not grabbing or scratching. It's just a

22:02

very faint, oh my God, I

22:04

just got touched. I've

22:07

never been touched in there myself, but I've

22:09

heard thousands of people say it. My

22:11

mom works at the jail with me occasionally,

22:14

and is dying to have a paranormal ghost experience.

22:19

And I was in there playing around with one of

22:21

the ghost boxes one night, and she had her earlobe

22:23

flipped, like flipped. Like,

22:25

oh my God, I finally had something happen. And

22:28

that would be a weird feeling if your hand

22:30

is nowhere around it, and there's nobody around you.

22:33

How do you debunk that? It just

22:35

happens. Yeah, you don't. There's little things that

22:37

happen in that building all the time, that

22:40

I can't remember half of them, or I've

22:43

shut them out because I forget, or I'm too

22:45

busy, I don't have time to deal with the

22:48

ghost today. But there's

22:50

always that night where you're hosting, and you

22:52

can't wait for them to get there, and

22:54

you're praying to God that they get a bunch

22:56

of evidence. And it usually

22:58

does happen, but there's nights, but

23:00

they're used to it. These people who travel

23:03

around these places, they know there's

23:05

not active every night. So

23:08

people can do the historical

23:10

tours there, correct? Do

23:12

you have to? Yeah, we have public tours. Mostly

23:16

the public tours for this season are

23:18

what we call final Fridays, which is the

23:20

last Friday of every month. And it's

23:22

five to eight, $10 per person, whether

23:25

it's guided or self-guided, either or. That's

23:28

when we run our public tours. Next year, I'm hoping

23:30

to have a lot more. And

23:32

what about paranormal investigations? Do

23:35

you do those often? Do

23:37

people have to, I'm assuming,

23:39

yeah. You have to book it. Right

23:42

now, the website's being brought up. I mean, they're

23:44

finishing it. Basically, if you want

23:46

to do a private investigation, you

23:49

have to get a booking. So

23:51

we'll give you, eventually it'll be, we'll give you available

23:53

dates. You pick a date, you

23:56

pay a deposit, and then you'll

23:58

pay your final 30 days before your event.

24:00

or whatever. It's $594 for

24:02

up to six people for

24:05

eight hours. And then it's $99 per person over

24:08

six people. We work with

24:10

the teams that they if they're having a good night at

24:13

two o'clock, we're going

24:15

to stay with them. And we don't charge

24:17

Kevin anymore. You know, we get paid the same

24:20

regardless. So So if

24:22

you're working on the website, is there a website

24:24

they can go to or are they better off

24:26

going to your Facebook page or social media

24:30

information booking? If you'd like to

24:32

book before our website, you just

24:34

send an email. It's to JOT

24:36

paranormal at

24:39

gmail.com. Okay. Request

24:41

a date or ask any question you

24:43

want. Kevin's the one actually answering those

24:45

and booking and invoicing through there. Or

24:48

you can actually send a private message

24:50

to the haunted Licking County Jail Facebook page

24:52

that on the admin all enter it. And

25:03

that wraps up our conversation about

25:05

the old Licking County Jail in

25:07

Newark, Ohio. For information

25:10

about paranormal investigations, email

25:13

JOT paranormal@gmail.com.

25:18

For more information on the haunted

25:20

attraction, the jail of terror, visit

25:24

Newark jail.com. If

25:27

you'd like access to all of our

25:29

episodes, including the archive and advanced episodes,

25:32

everything commercial free, become a gravekeeper, sign

25:34

up on Apple podcasting, try it there

25:36

for three days free. You

25:38

can also go to patreon.com/the grave

25:41

talks, find everything there also all

25:43

ad free. I'm Carol Hughes.

25:45

And for all of us at the grave talks, thanks

25:48

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