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[Intro] Welcome to The Health Fix Podcast, where health junkies get their weekly

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fix of tips, tools, and techniques to have limitless energy, sharp minds, and fit

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physiques for life. Hey Health Junkies, on this episode of The Health Fix Podcast, I'm talking with

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host of the Insatiable Podcast creator of Truce with Food Emotional Eating Expert,

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Ali Shapiro.

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Ali coaches me in this podcast on why I go into squirrel mode with nuts and how my need

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for security is driving me to eat.

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So interesting to dissect the layers of our drive to stuff ourselves with.

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Insatiable things.

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Good stuff here. So let's introduce you to Ali Shapiro.

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JANNINE: Hey, Ali. Welcome to the health fix podcast.

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ALI: Thank you so much for having me. I'm already having so much fun with you.

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You're great. JANNINE: Oh my gosh.

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I have a feeling that we could talk for hours.

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Don't worry guys, we're not gonna go that long, but we're gonna have some good stuff for you today.

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Because one of the biggest things that drew me to Ali

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is her podcast Insatiable and I'm like, oh my gosh.

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As we get older, Ali, some things just become very interesting.

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Like our vices, we hold on to these things, we're driven towards certain things

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and I can't wait to talk about that.

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But before we go there, I love to tell, you know, have folks tell a little bit on their

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story. So you started out your health journey with cancer.

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Like tell us, tell us what the heck happened.

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Like, how did that, that impact you and get you to where you are today.

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Give us a little scoop. ALI: Yeah.

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Well, I love that you're a naturopathic physician because you'll have, you'll probably agree

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with me on this.

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But I think it starts really when I was around 11, even before I was diagnosed with cancer.

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And I got my parents to take me to Weight Watchers.

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I grew up in Pittsburgh, suburbs, strip mall, went in there.

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And I thought I had a willpower discipline problem.

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And I had maybe five, six years before that,

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the timeline's kind of fuzzy for me now.

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Had a pesticide exposure. And my parents didn't spray our yard, but my friends,

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parents did and we went into gymnastics and I sucked my fingers at a time. So I was probably

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like five or six years old and they had had round up basically spread. It was called chemlawn to make

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you know to make your lawn green and I had this horrible rash for two weeks and the doctors didn't

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know what it was. There was no like prescription or anything and I just lived in a oat meal bath

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and you know as an after-profit physician given my, for me I couldn't detox that and so I started

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to gain weight from that. But I thought, I'm just gaining weight, this must be a well-powered

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discipline issue. And then when I was in fifth grade, I was bullied. And rather than telling

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my parents about it, I came home in eight bagels and carbs and all the stuff. So when I went into

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weight watchers at 11, I was like, this is a calorie issue. I'm eating too much. And in some

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ways, I was, but it was a little bit more complicated than that, right? It was like what

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what originally set off the weight gain was inflammation

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and the inability to detox, not a willpower discipline issue.

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So then I was diagnosed, so then isn't it interesting several years,

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after being bullied in the stress of that and then after pesticide exposure, two years later,

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I'm diagnosed with Hodgkin's disease at the age of 13.

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And what was complicated for me at the time

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was at that point,

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I grew up in the 80s and 90s And this was 1992 and I had internalized

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that health equals thinness, right?

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That's the era that we grew up in, right?

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And so I ended up losing the most weight ever

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'cause in chemotherapy, you can't keep anything down.

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I mean, I had like a chipmunk face 'cause I had steroids and that kind of stuff,

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but I was really thin.

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And so as I got out of treatment,

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lost the chipmunk face, but kept the weight off,

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you start getting attention. The clothes, I could go to

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contemporary casuals where all my friends shopped, and put one of

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those big chunky belts on, right? And not have a stomach. Or

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a spree was really popular back then. And for everyone

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listening, you only went shopping once a year, at least in my

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family. It was back to school. Back to school, that was the only

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time you bought clothes. And then it looked great. I got a

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boyfriend, like all of this great stuff started to happen when I was thin. And so even though

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I was close to death and that's what made me thin, I had just cemented this idea that

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thinness equals health and it gets you all the fun stuff in life. And so in high school

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I was able to pretty much outrun how I ate. My friends and I would always joke, "Diet

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starts tomorrow!" You know, and then we would eat like whatever we wanted at, you know,

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wherever we were eating.

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But my mom and dad were both health conscious in the sense

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that my dad was a health and phys ed. teacher.

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So he was a runner and just fascinated by the body.

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And then my mom grew up on an organic farm.

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It wasn't called an organic farm, but believed in natural medicine.

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So I had some influence that, yeah,

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we have some control over our health. But really, it was all through this calories lens

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and an obsession with weight. And then basically fast forward, I go to college,

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that transition, that uncertainty made my overeating turn to emotional eating

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bingeing. I couldn't outrun it anymore. And then basic, and then I had my first job out of college,

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and I was always a great student, but was like really flailing in this job. And I was like,

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what? Like, I don't fail at work, you know, like, or like school work type stuff. And so I was

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diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome. And at that point, I had also was struggling with

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with depression. I was struggling with acne. I had tried accutane. I like cringe on it now in college.

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tons of antibiotics. And so I just kind of was struggling and I kept looking at, okay, like,

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okay, I have to try and hit the depressants. I have to try everything Western medicine can give me.

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And food is still about calories and you got to lose weight and somehow all the stuff is going

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to go away. Right now it seems insane to me, but that was my mindset. Sure. And yeah. And then

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And at the age of, I think it was 26, I found the Institute for Integrative Nutrition.

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And this was about, you know, 20 years ago.

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And Dr. Mark Hyman was teaching there.

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And at IAN, which is the abbreviation for that school, we learned all different dietary

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theories. And I really took to functional medicine because the system's lens, the holistic lens, it

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felt like it married the best of Eastern philosophy with like the Western science that

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I was familiar with. And I basically connected all the dots that all of these issues were related to my gut

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health and how the chemo destroyed my gut health.

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And again, I just want to like contextualize your people.

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This was about 20 years ago. And the reason I bring that up is because people were not talking about gut health the

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way they were. And it felt like a really lonely place to be because no one under most people at 26 years

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old are not trying to recover from their cancer treatments at the time.

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And then I would go to my doctors. And they were like, I don't, this is like kind of dismissing me, right?

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Like what you eat doesn't matter. So it was just very lonely and isolating, but I was amazed at the results.

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And I was like, Oh my God, people need to know about this.

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So I started seeing people on the side of my corporate job.

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And I was like, maybe this is just me. But it was really a time where like people were still pronouncing

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quinoa as quinoa, like do you remember that era?

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JANNINE: Quinoa. People still do.

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In my family. ALI: I mean, look, pronunciation is not in my genetic code,

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but so I totally understand. But as before Kale was on Modern Family,

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it was just a different era.

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And so I was working with people. And after about the fourth session,

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we would stop talking about food.

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And they were making these changes

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that had nothing to do with food.

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And I was like, what's happening here? Like, what's working?

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What happens when people get stuck? When information isn't enough.

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In parallel, I had made huge strides with my relationship with food because all of a sudden,

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I had expanded my view of food. It wasn't just calories, it could be medicine too. But during

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stressful periods, I couldn't keep it up. So I always use the example of like in the cancer world,

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when you I was at risk for, um, breast, I'm still at risk for increased risk for breast cancer and

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thyroid cancer. So I would go for scans to make sure that the original cancer didn't cause other

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cancer. And so in the cancer world, we call it

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scan ziety season. And because our health care

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system is not designed around the user, from the time you know,

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you're due to the time you schedule, to the time you

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get the result, you know, go in and get the test, meet with the

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doctor could be six weeks, two months, and I would be

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binging on sugar. And I'm like, wait a second, I feel like

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shit, my anxiety is back. I know how no cancer fuels tumor

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growth. What the fuck am I doing? Right? And so then there's like increased shame because

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I now have this awareness that I have control of how I feel. And so that was that led me

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to be like, wait a second, could I take a functional or holistic look at why I can't

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keep this up? Because the same way that my IBS, my depression and my acne, which I was

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able to reverse was just actually a symptom and not a diagnosis. Could this falling off

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track also be a symptom and not the problem because I have a lot of fucking willpower.

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I have a lot of discipline. Like I'm succeeding in life, hashtag success, and I can't figure this

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out. And so that is what led me to grad school to study. Look, I thought I was the only one with

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this crazy relationship to food, but now, right? And again, now with social media, we know a lot

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more people do, but my clients and I aren't the only ones. And so that's what enabled me to create

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my body of work cultures with food to realize that food is really about attachment and belonging

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or a sense of safety, emotional safety. And so when we feel stressed, we often feel isolated

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from the very support we need. And that food, you know, becomes this symbolic sense of I'm safe.

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So that's, I just said a lot. Does anyone still understand?

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Is that the whole 25 minutes? JANNINE: Oh my gosh.

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No, it's perfect because it's well said.

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You literally laid it out that we are using the food as in,

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and rightly so we need the fuel, right? But we're using it as our safety.

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Cause you know, that's like one of the big things.

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I'm sure you probably find this too. It's your clients when they're stuck in fight or flight mode.

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And they're like, I don't know how to, what other things to do to.

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give my body signals that I'm safe. I'm like, well, you're already doing it. You're choosing

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to not, you know, to overeat or overindulgent wine or over, you know, you've got that's

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your mechanism. Now we figure out how to unwind it.

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ALI: Yes, yeah. Because there's, I love that you said safe because that's what I like kind

11:38

of view food is it's there's different levels of safety. There's the physical safety, like

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right? And yes, physical, are you in a safe environment? But from a nutritional standpoint,

11:48

does your body have the nutrients and the inputs it needs to keep the lights on, keep your immunity

11:57

up, keep your thyroid going, keep your reproductive function, you know, if you're, you know,

12:01

remenopausal, going, does it have all of that stuff, blood sugar, gut health? Because without that,

12:09

You know, and I can divide it into physical, emotional, and soul, but really they're all connected, right?

12:14

And they're, they're all playing out in the same pattern anyway.

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So it's like, okay, once you get the physical down to your point, it's like, okay, this anxiety now,

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maybe my anxiety has gone down because my blood sugar is balanced now, but I still feel anxious.

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And I think what's hard about attachment and, and I'll really say through the lens of emotional safety or belonging,

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is it's an invisible thread. It is this like, oh my God, especially in America where we're like, we're independent,

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we don't need people, you know? And we think we should be self-sufficient. It's like, why should

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I think I need anyone? Or why should I think I need anything? And just for listeners,

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the practical application of belonging is whenever you feel separate, different, or isolated,

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even if you're especially when you're around other people. And on the surface, it could be

13:07

be, oh, well, my food choices, because I have to be gluten free.

13:11

Or I want to eat healthy, but I'm not succeeding yet.

13:14

So it looks like I'm trying and failing, because I'm not at the weight I want.

13:19

Those deeper emotional things, on the surface,

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it's about the food, but on a deeper level, it's about,

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I just feel really different here,

13:27

for some reason, other than the food. Because whenever I talk to clients about, they're like,

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yeah, it's hard to order what I want or do what I want

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when I go out and this is part of what we explore,

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it's like, okay, and they're like, it's about the food and there's other stuff going on there.

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And I'm like, yeah, that's what we need to look at, the other stuff,

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is what we need to look at that is making you feel,

13:50

like you can't bring your whole self to this experience

13:55

whether it's food related or not. JANNINE: That's a deeper level than I think a lot of people

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have ever really looked into, right?

14:05

Bringing yourself to the table, the belonging thing.

14:08

One of my friends said to me,

14:12

I think it's maybe even one of my relatives,

14:15

that isn't it interesting how all of our social connection

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always relates back to food.

14:21

I wish we could do less things around food,

14:24

but yet at the same time, 'cause when you're working

14:27

with stuff related to food, it kind of brings things up.

14:30

Like you said, you can't be part of the club. You can't, you know, if so you think, so you think.

14:35

Let's say. ALI: Yeah, yeah, the perception is,

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and it's like, this is why I love working with food.

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It's so rich because, you know, I think of the original belonging and attachment

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is to like mother earth, right?

14:47

And we're gonna go like really, you know, big.

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It's like to the earth and the cycles. And so real whole foods gives us part of that attachment

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that is really healthy attachment and belonging

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and like eating cyclically and eating, I mean, you look at gut health,

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it's like, oh, the research is showing

15:05

the healthiest guts have lots of variety. Well, nature has built that in with cycles, right?

15:10

Like, okay, you get variety if you eat cyclically, right?

15:14

And it's like that orients us. And even I say with my clients,

15:18

like important family traditions, right?

15:21

Eating that way, again, if you weren't silly-ac or,

15:25

you know, there's, it's not those times

15:27

that are wrecking your health. It's, and those are really important rituals or traditions

15:33

that help orient us and make us feel safe.

15:36

Oh, I'm part of this heritage. I'm part of this.

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And it's like, that's really wonderful. We get that sense of belonging,

15:44

but it's when that's the only sense of belonging.

15:47

And I like that you use the word connection

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'cause I think there's a difference between connection and belonging that is often intertwined,

15:55

but connection can be like, oh, we're sharing food,

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connected over food, but belonging is like, I'm going to say the thing I want to say that,

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you know, one of my clients, for example, she comes from a big, like Catholic family.

16:10

And she's like, I struggle with my sisters. Like, and they're my sisters. Why is that? And so like,

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we worked on it. It was like, oh, I stuff my face because I'm afraid I'm going to say the thing

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that is different. She feels like the black sheep in the family, right? And it's like,

16:29

"Oh, I feel like I'm going to say the thing that's going to separate me." But the thing is,

16:33

sure, it feels separate from them, right? And so it's looking at, "Okay, like,

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what needs to be said? How does it need to be said? How do you need to feel like you're

16:42

actually belonging in this situation rather than just connecting over food? Is that example clear?"

16:51

JANNINE: Well, yes, and I've got some ideas in my head that I want to run by you to make sure I'm thinking

16:57

of it correctly, because what you have me thinking about is like, okay, in my own personal life,

17:02

there are certain folks that when I go to hang out with them, I feel like I need to eat more.

17:07

Like, I feel like I need to be like my dad, for example, and love the man to death.

17:14

But when I'm with him, I do feel like there's this drive to eat more.

17:18

And so I'm needing to say something perhaps.

17:22

ALI: Yeah, well, let me ask you this.

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What feels hard about being with your dad and holding the and you love him and what feels hard about it.

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JANNINE: The hardest thing with him is he has such a negative outlook on life.

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And so for me, I'm like,

17:40

Stop brainwashing me with your negative.

17:44

I mean, he grew up in the depression, right?

17:46

So rough stuff. And so I think for me, it's hard to hear all the negativity.

17:50

And so I think that's what drives that kind of stuff

17:53

in my work. ALI: And what do you think you have to do with the negativity?

17:58

JANNINE: I feel like I take it on so I'm trying to block it.

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That's what I think the food's trying to block it.

18:05

ALI: And what do you mean by take it on?

18:07

JANNINE: So I'm super sensitive to energy.

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And when someone's like Debbie Downer,

18:13

I feel like it's easy for me to grab it.

18:15

It's kind of like empathetic. And so I think I'm trying to block it.

18:18

That's what I thought about, but I don't know.

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ALI: Do you think there's this sense of responsibility

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to have to fix it? JANNINE: Oh, for sure.

18:31

For sure, I'd like to fix everything for him

18:33

and make it make it so that the world is so much better

18:35

then he sees it for sure.

18:38

ALI: Yeah, yeah. So I think that is often in "Truce With Food"

18:42

and my program, why I'm saying this now, we look at our protection strategies when we feel at risk.

18:47

And one of the big ones is the accommodator who has really the fixer archetype of like, right?

18:53

It's where we actually have a lot of confidence in like how we've handled our lives, right?

18:57

So it's like, and especially women who we've been, you know,

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conditioned to take on more responsibility than ours,

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part of the discomfort then is like, "Oh, I have to fix this negativity."

19:09

And it's like, and then that separates you because you're the savior and he's the one

19:14

that needs saved, right? JANNINE: Yes, exactly, exactly.

19:19

ALI: So what might be interesting is if you didn't have

19:23

to fix it, how would you like to show up

19:26

potentially different next time? JANNINE: You know, probably just let him talk

19:32

and not be affected by it, not absorb it.

19:36

ALI: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

19:39

This is what, this is the work. So that rather than eating,

19:42

so you don't have to feel it, let them have it.

19:44

And you know, sometimes this comes out with clients

19:47

like their kids will call them and they're like, you know,

19:50

and they're like trying to fix it, right? And I say to one of my clients talked about this

19:54

with like her daughter, it's like, oh my God, she's always calling with the crisis.

19:57

It's not the same thing as the negativity, but it's the same relational assumption

20:01

that I have to fix this.

20:03

And I said, what if instead of trying to fix it,

20:05

you asked her what do you need?

20:08

'Cause you wanna be helpful, right? Rather than saying like,

20:11

I have to either fix her or just avoid her, right?

20:15

'Cause that ultimately is not forging belonging, right?

20:21

It's not being in relationship with the person.

20:24

So like maybe letting your dad talk and say,

20:26

"Hey, is there anything you need from me around this?"

20:30

And put it so they're there that way you can help.

20:33

It's wonderful to want to help people and support them.

20:38

But often the best way to do that is to,

20:41

and you know this in your practice, people have to come to conclusions themselves, right?

20:46

We can't, and not a minute too soon,

20:48

can you try to convince someone something

20:51

that they're not ready for, right?

20:53

I mean, I see this on my own life. I have studied change so deeply

20:57

'Cause I'm so stubborn. (laughs)

21:02

Takes me a long ass time to figure this stuff out.

21:05

But how does that sound is like a quote unquote plan,

21:08

not that for next time you seem just to experiment with

21:11

and see what you learn about him and what you learn about yourself.

21:14

JANNINE: Yeah, yeah. It sounds like fun actually.

21:17

I love experiments. I'm always in for that.

21:20

I'm like, okay, okay, I can do that.

21:23

I can do that. It's interesting hearing the overeating, the overindulging, the drive to want to eat

21:32

more on a perspective of the thoughts.

21:35

A lot of people might be thinking right now and something I hear a lot, Ali, in my practice

21:39

from my patients is that I just feel in the evenings when my family is home, I just need

21:46

to eat. I just need to have my snack.

21:49

I need to, you know, I just can't seem to stop the crackers, the, the whatever.

21:53

Let's talk a little bit about all the different things that could be going on

21:59

that people maybe need to say and they're stuffing down the emotions.

22:02

Just just to give folks a little perspective.

22:04

Cause like for me, I'm like, huh, okay.

22:07

I could just be okay with not fixing him.

22:09

Cause I didn't really think about it was the fact that I was fixing, but drew that one out of me.

22:13

ALI: Yes.

22:16

I love this question. And so, you know, food noise is a really popular topic right now.

22:21

I mean, I think that's how people are framing it.

22:23

Bethany Franco actually I think was the first person who called it food noise.

22:27

I used to call it mental food gymnastics, but food noise is just in the ether now.

22:31

And so I think you know food noise comes physically when our blood sugar is imbalanced, right?

22:37

It's like, oh, we don't have the right nutrients.

22:40

Okay, you need to start thinking about food and it comes out in crazy ways if we're in

22:44

balance. also emotional food noise, right?

22:47

Which as we kind of delved into it, what it is with your father.

22:51

And so in the evening, what happens to people is often,

22:56

it's the first time they have any space in their day, right?

23:02

So they're pushing through, they're pushing through.

23:05

And in "Why Might This Now?" and "Truce With Through,"

23:08

we call it death by a thousand paper cuts.

23:10

It's never often like one big thing,

23:13

But it's a bunch of little triggers that all of a sudden,

23:18

all those feelings come up.

23:20

And again, when I talk about food being about attachment

23:24

from the moment we're born, right?

23:27

Kids have, babies have two primal needs,

23:30

touch and be fed. That signals, and you need a caretaker there.

23:36

If you don't have a caretaker, right?

23:38

You don't survive, right? So food is like a primal need,

23:42

but you need the caretaker to belong to or be attached to

23:46

is equally a primal need because they're the ones

23:49

who secure everything you need. So that's why we go start to,

23:52

why we think, why our mind goes to food

23:55

when we're feeling unsafe. Because this is coupled from the time we are born

24:00

until, you know, a long time, right?

24:04

(laughs) JANNINE: Yup.

24:06

ALI: So I have identified four triggers

24:09

that people can start to identify in the evening

24:12

of what's going on. So the first thing though is when people are thinking,

24:17

they're with their families or by themselves,

24:20

whatever it is in the evening, and they're like, I just wanna eat.

24:24

The first question I want you to ask is like, why does this make sense?

24:27

Not what's my fucking problem.

24:29

JANNINE: Right. ALI: Why is this in the house?

24:31

Like that's not the issue, right?

24:34

The issue is that you feel unsafe in some way.

24:39

And that's natural.

24:42

So first, just the question is, why does this make sense?

24:45

Because we also can't change when we're in shame or guilt.

24:48

So just like, let's regulate the system

24:50

and be like, this actually makes a lot of sense.

24:53

For some reason, I don't even know if I believe this yet,

24:55

but I'm willing to be curious about it.

24:57

(laughs) And so the next thing that I ask clients to say is,

25:03

and this is in my Why Might In This Now Live program,

25:05

which is open for registration in September, is what is at the tail end of this emotional food noise?

25:12

And so tail is T-A-I-L.

25:16

So the first one is, do I feel tired?

25:18

Right?

25:20

It may be the first time you're pushing through,

25:23

you skip lunch, you think you don't need it,

25:25

whatever it is, but am I tired?

25:28

Right? The second one is, do I feel anxious?

25:33

And anxious is really about uncertainty, right?

25:36

And I think of uncertainty as coming from the outside.

25:38

So we saw people's eating and drinking habits

25:41

go really downhill during COVID. There was so much uncertainty, right?

25:46

Even people can think of, right?

25:48

Like when I look back on my own eating trajectory,

25:52

the scans, the uncertainty, right?

25:54

Was I gonna be cancer free?

25:58

Was I gonna be okay? When I left for college, oh my God,

26:01

I had this great group of friends, even like couldn't wait to get out of my town.

26:06

I knew that town and now I'm, you know,

26:09

I went to Penn State undergrad. I'm 40,000 people in this like place

26:13

that isn't that different, but it's different enough, right?

26:16

And so that's, that's the A is anxiousness,

26:20

which is really often about uncertainty.

26:23

The eye is, am I feeling inadequate?

26:26

And this is when we feel not enough or too much.

26:29

And this is really when the call is coming from inside the house.

26:32

Like I feel like it's me.

26:35

Like it's I'm not enough instead of something is coming,

26:38

you know, through me. So for example, I used to think when I really wanted to date,

26:43

I was like, oh my God, I'm not at the goal weight

26:46

to meet the type of person that I would want to date, right?

26:48

That's inadequacy. And then L is loneliness.

26:53

And this comes back to, these are all about belonging on a deep level,

26:57

but this one is really about it because loneliness, the official definition

27:01

is our social needs aren't met.

27:04

And so loneliness, you can beat around other people.

27:07

You can be around your family. You can be around your coworkers.

27:10

And all of a sudden, but you still feel lonely.

27:14

You feel that isolation, separateness.

27:16

So an example of this is one of my clients

27:19

I was working with, she was like, I just find myself standing in front of the fridge at night.

27:24

And I don't, I feel like something, but I don't really feel like something.

27:27

And I'm not hungry and I just find myself staring there.

27:30

And so I was like, all right, next time I want you to ask

27:33

yourself what's at the tail end of this?

27:35

And you do have to get into your body for this.

27:38

This is really like our sense of safety

27:43

is generated from our body. So I want you to think about it, but I

27:46

want you to first drop it in feel. Like what's really going on here?

27:50

What's really going on here?

27:52

And what she realized is as she was staring in front of the

27:54

fridge, she was thinking about all these like three big

27:58

decisions she had made at work that day.

28:00

And she was like, is that person gonna be mad?

28:02

Is that person, right? Like, did I say that correctly?

28:06

Then the other one was like, oh, I didn't get back to that email.

28:08

I missed the debt. Like, so what was coming up was all this inadequacy.

28:13

And the food was providing this like surrogate sense of,

28:18

right, like, oh my God, attachment, belonging.

28:21

I'm using those words and it'll change the one. They are different, but for our purposes,

28:24

we don't need to know the difference. And it's like, oh, this is gonna,

28:27

this is gonna make me feel like I belong, right?

28:30

like, I'm enough in some way that I'm safe emotionally.

28:34

And so the path forward was not don't keep food in the house,

28:39

do keep food in the house. Like that was not the issue.

28:42

It was, what do you need to feel safe and like attuned to your needs

28:49

and like resourcing yourself instead of thinking that you're at the mercy of

29:00

and thinking about everyone else and trying to meet their needs, basically.

29:04

So ultimately it was like, okay, next time that happens,

29:09

I need to do some things with whatever's making me feel inadequate,

29:15

identifying my needs there, and then moving forward. And that's how we cultivate an adult

29:21

sense of belonging. Because again, the first 20 years of our lives, we do need to make everyone

29:27

else happy. I mean, we can't like, how long if Jadim was it till you could like take care

29:31

of yourself? Like with like fully like shelter, food, water?

29:37

JANNINE: Last year? No. At least well into my twenties. Like my parents, because of going to Bastyr, right?

29:47

And for naturopath school, I was working to try to support myself and my parents totally

29:50

helped me in the beginning. I probably wasn't self-sufficient till after my mom died when

29:55

when I was 26. I really don't feel like I flew the coop till then.

30:00

Really? - ALI: Yeah, yeah.

30:02

And that's, again, that's developmentally appropriate,

30:05

right? That's what I wanted. I mean, I hear in the self-help wellness world,

30:09

I'm like, don't care what anyone else thinks. And it's like, our survival was rooted

30:14

in caring what other people think, right?

30:16

Like this was the first 20, 25 years of our life

30:19

just developmentally. We are so attuned to what other people think and want and need

30:25

Because we do need to learn a moral code.

30:27

We need to learn what's acceptable, what's not.

30:29

Now those are very narrow definitions

30:32

of what is acceptable or what not.

30:34

However, you have to come out of adulthood with some sort of compass.

30:37

Or can you just imagine like just being like,

30:40

"Okay, you're 26 years old, go make your way in the world

30:43

"without having any sense of right or wrong, good or bad."

30:46

But the task of adulthood is to question

30:51

If the values we have are those definitions really the most true and really what worked

30:58

for us. So for example, with me, I had to expand my definition of health to not just be about

31:04

thinness and weight, right?

31:06

It's like, oh, this food is about medicine because it's also about your gut health and

31:12

your blood sugar and your vitality and how well are you sleeping and how well are you

31:16

moving and are you getting sunlight? You know all of this.

31:18

And this is like what natural paths have been saying, right?

31:22

For like someone listen.

31:25

But it's expanding even like our idea of responsibility, right?

31:29

It's like, oh, I grew up because of my family, my culture,

31:34

my gender, you know, all of these things. And for most women, and I work with most women,

31:39

it's like my definition of responsibility

31:41

is actually take it all on. I'm responsible for other people's feelings.

31:44

I'm responsible for fixing. I'm responsible for swooping in and making it all okay.

31:49

And it's like, what if,

31:51

and this is what I teach like in my program, what if we redefine that as response ability?

31:58

So the ability to respond to what's present

32:03

and that not being necessarily about us taking everything on

32:07

as the example of your dad's negativity, you know?

32:11

JANNINE: No, it's something that,

32:15

I mean, we talk about it every day, right, in my practice.

32:17

I talk about it in my own life.

32:19

It's interesting because I feel like I'm,

32:23

even with all the naturopath training, even all, I was once at a conference

32:29

that basically said, if food was the only thing

32:33

in our way between us and our weight,

32:38

we wouldn't have doctors, we wouldn't have naturopaths,

32:41

we wouldn't have registered dieticians who are overweight and having eating issues.

32:45

Like there is something deeper.

32:47

There's obviously, you figured it out.

32:50

And I think as we get older,

32:54

we start to really realize as the things mount for us, right?

32:58

Now we've, some people maybe having kids late

33:01

and then now we've got the perimenopause and the hormones kind of flexing.

33:04

And then we might be also taking care of our parents

33:06

at the same time. So now we have all these responsibilities.

33:10

It's no wonder that women gain weight in midlife

33:14

because where else are we gonna put those emotions

33:17

when we haven't been taught what to do or to even think through like, why am I doing this?

33:21

Like I mentioned to you before we hit record

33:23

that we're trying to figure out if I'm a squirrel.

33:25

Like we think that I might be a squirrel from a previous life because of my addiction

33:30

to pecans, macadamia, nuts, all these things.

33:34

And here's the crazy part of it.

33:37

And folks, you guys, I want you to understand

33:40

I'm a human being in real and I'm working on myself just as much as you guys are and

33:44

this podcast is working on myself too.

33:46

You know, I use it. I'm getting some coaching from Ali right now.

33:51

But really what I'm getting at here is like we develop these vices and we, if we could

33:57

slow down just enough, stop scrolling through the people dancing on TikTok, telling you

34:03

how to lose weight fast, but slow down and listen to folks like Ali and be like, oh,

34:08

wait. Why am I drawn to these particular things?

34:13

ALI: Yes. JANNINE: I think the nuts, the pistachios is repetitive motion to like mesmerize my brain.

34:19

I don't know. What's your take on people who are addicted to pistachios?

34:23

ALI: Well, let me ask you, when are you eating them?

34:26

Are you, so first, are you eating all the nuts?

34:28

Like, is it the nuts and you're just rotating them or is it like, like, what's, tell me

34:32

more? JANNINE: Yeah.

34:34

So I rotate them out because I will get sick of certain ones.

34:38

it is a repair. There's a, this is what I've learned. When do I do it? I do it later in the

34:42

evening, or I do it midday when I haven't meal prepped. And I need to grab like a snack. And I'm

34:50

in a rush. And plan the timing. And if I look at it deeper, I've connected it to the repetitive

34:57

motion of pulling out of the bag or cracking the nuts. So I think I'm obviously self-soothing, but

35:06

ALI: Yeah. JANNINE: But the experts speak care.

35:08

ALI: Well, and I love because what you're also, the repetitive motion, right, is creating a routine that's grounding you.

35:15

Which food grounds us as well, right? Again, and when we are overeating especially,

35:20

you know that phrase, I feel like the rug is taken out from under me.

35:24

When we overeat, especially around uncertainty, it's to ground us. It's like, oh my God, I'm here.

35:30

I'm safe. There's flat footing. So let me ask you this.

35:33

What comes up, if we use those tail triggers,

35:35

which one comes up for you when you have at meal prep?

35:39

Let's do it separately, 'cause they might be separate issues.

35:42

JANNINE: Yeah, gosh, you know, two things,

35:46

because one, there's a lot of,

35:49

because I talk about meal prep a lot,

35:52

and I do do it most of the time, but one, I don't.

35:54

I'm like, imposter, I'm an imposter. I'm not living according to my values

35:59

and what I tell people to do, because I fell off the rails this week, right?

36:03

That's one. And the other one's anxiety because I will sometimes

36:07

eat out of nowhere because I am trying

36:11

to work through like how's this day gonna go.

36:13

So if I become a squirrel in the morning early off,

36:17

now I think I'm trying to see for the day

36:20

going like what's gonna happen today. Especially this happens, especially when I'm in Tacoma.

36:25

ALI: Mm. Okay, so what's gonna happen for the day?

36:28

That's uncertainty, right? JANNINE: Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Big time. Big time. ALI: Yeah. Yeah. So, and I love what you're pointing

36:37

here is the nuance that it's two triggers at once, right? It's the inadequacy of imposter

36:41

syndrome. And then it's the uncertainty of how's this day going to go. Right. So what

36:49

I think is really interesting is, okay, so those are the triggers. And then we have protection

36:55

strategies against these triggers. And with these protection strategies, ultimately do is put us in

37:02

being called perfectionist mindset, which is no risk. Right? Perfectionism is really about

37:08

there's no risk here. There's no risk of people judging me of failing of getting it wrong. I've

37:13

done it so perfectly that there's no risk. And then there's like, okay, that's how you be good.

37:18

And then there's, okay, here's what's bad, right?

37:22

Which is imperfection, so much risk.

37:24

So what I think, and you can tell me,

37:28

how do you think, when you think,

37:31

how does this day gonna go, what feels hard?

37:34

What are you worried about? How are you thinking about that?

37:37

When you think, like, what are the,

37:39

what is the, I'm asking for the frame, but tell me your thoughts and then I'll help you see

37:43

which one you're, how you're protecting yourself.

37:46

JANNINE: Sure. So I have this funny thing back in the day when I was seeing two to three people an hour doing a lot of acupuncture, doing a lot of pain management stuff in my office.

37:56

Our system would glitch constantly where it would have two to three people showing up for the same appointment.

38:03

And all of a sudden I've got a really busy waiting room and I'm like, how many of those people I don't want people to wait.

38:10

You know, that's not my philosophy. Oh my gosh. What do I do?

38:12

And so I have almost this trauma associated with going to my office that links me to thinking like

38:20

this day is going to go to crap because the computer is going to mess up the schedule.

38:24

It's the weirdest trauma, but it happens. ALI: Yeah. Yeah. And so it was the thought process like

38:30

I'm going to fall behind or is it like catastrophizing it or is it like people are going to be so

38:37

disappointed. Maybe it's all of it. But what is the, how are you thinking about it?

38:43

JANNINE: Yeah. ALI: That's what I'm interested in, not necessarily the contents, but how you're relating to it.

38:49

JANNINE: Yeah. Good question. I'm relating to it in terms of the catastrophizing. I'm just like,

38:55

it's all going to crap now. It's all going to crap now. Everything is going to be awful.

38:58

And then, yes, there's also the end the people are not going to like me. They're going to.

39:02

ALI: Yes, yes, yes. Okay, so what actually ends up happening,

39:07

so in the Why Am I Eating This Now framework

39:09

and Truce With Food, it's, so you use the avoid protection strategy, okay?

39:14

Which is, there is a perfect, which is perfection.

39:18

There's a place where I can control everything,

39:20

everyone's happy, the day goes perfectly,

39:24

and I'm at no risk for people not liking me.

39:27

And then other or, fuck, this is, this is,

39:31

The day is going to hell, right?

39:33

JANNINE: Yep. ALI: And so that frame, which people think of as all or nothing, black and white, you know,

39:40

it's the binary mindset, is we're trying to protect ourselves, but it ultimately makes us feel even more like

39:48

more stressed out, more uncertain, right?

39:51

And so what I would ask you is, what do you think you need in those moments, in that moment, when you're wondering how the day is

39:57

going to go. Not to fix it perfectly, but for you to feel resourced to handle what might happen.

40:04

JANNINE: Oh my gosh, it's funny. I need someone to tell me that my computer system is not

40:10

going to glitch. I need someone to assure me that that is not going to happen.

40:13

ALI: So yeah, yeah. Well, and what you're talking about is connection there, right?

40:19

Belonging someone who knows how much this matters to you, knows how important it is to you,

40:24

knows how much that stresses you out. And so is that do you have like an office manager or?

40:30

JANNINE: I have an assistant. Yep. Yep. ALI: Yeah. So it might just be really interesting. Again,

40:36

everything I talk about with clients is experimenting because you as the further you go along in this

40:41

journey of adult belonging, the more your needs can change sometimes, right? Like sometimes it

40:48

could be something different. So it might be really interesting. Next time that happens for

40:53

for you to call your assistant and say,

40:55

just say, how are the systems working?

40:58

And maybe it's like, is it worth figuring out

41:02

that because this is so important to you,

41:04

a backup system or talking to her,

41:06

what can we do if this were to ever happen, right?

41:10

Because we can't control that, and she can't promise you that they're never not gonna work,

41:14

right? That's like so unrealistic,

41:16

but is there a conversation you guys can have

41:19

so you feel supported in the reality that life is imperfect.

41:24

JANNINE: Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely, absolutely.

41:26

Easy enough to have that conversation, easy enough.

41:30

Now, one thing you mentioned that I'm like,

41:32

hmm, hmm, the avoidant thing for a lot of folks,

41:37

that's a thing, but also just having that assurance.

41:42

And I think for a lot of people,

41:44

this is a big issue of assurance

41:47

that everything's gonna be okay, that things are going to be okay.

41:51

And yeah, I'm like, okay.

41:54

The deep thoughts in the brain going right now. ALI: Yeah.

41:57

Well, and I would say that even in that scenario

42:01

that we just talked about, is it's not about that everything's gonna be okay.

42:06

That's what we eventually realize

42:08

as we tune more into our needs. It's that I'm gonna be supported through it.

42:12

So for example, what I figured out

42:14

how to stop binging during my scans

42:16

was what I realized was I had a deep story that my cancer was extremely burdensome or that I was

42:23

a burden and my cancer was a burden on my family. They were public school teachers. They had, I mean,

42:28

it was, we had different people taking me to treatments. We lived in the burbs. We have to

42:32

meet my mom halfway through. She had, you know, I mean, I can still get emotional thinking about

42:36

all the resources that it took of my family who was already stretched so thin. And so,

42:43

So whenever these scans would come, I would try to just do it all myself.

42:47

My parents would call me, "How are you doing? I'm fine.

42:50

I'm fine." And the judgment was like, "I should fucking be over this by now."

42:53

Right? Like this is 10 years out and you're still stressed out about this.

42:57

And it's like, of course, like this is actually the peak time of secondary cancers, right?

43:02

But I just beat myself up, right?

43:05

Or my sister and my now husband, but my boyfriend at the time lived in Philadelphia with me.

43:10

And it was like, what I realized I had to do was share.

43:12

Like, I'm scared. These are still hard for me.

43:16

And what I realized is like, I thought I wanted guarantees that the scans were going to be absolutely

43:20

clear. And what I discovered I actually needed was support through it.

43:25

So it was like, I started asking them to come to the appointment with me.

43:28

I started when my parents calling saying, I'm scared.

43:31

This is hard. I had never shown a lot of emotion

43:33

about my cancer experience. Because it was--

43:36

you know, on the first generation of cancer survivors,

43:38

things are very different. They just were so happy we were alive.

43:41

There was no emotional support. So I had not worked through that trauma, right?

43:45

And that was part of what my food issues,

43:48

they were an invitation into working through that trauma.

43:51

But what I realized was like, oh, I just need someone's support and to be here with me.

43:55

That is what I need. And with that, I can figure, I can work through it.

44:00

I can survive it, right? Now, many times in my work with clients,

44:04

I mean, we don't start off that deep. I mean, that took me years of healing

44:07

to even realize that was the issue.

44:09

But we start off with surface stresses

44:12

and realizing like, oh, I actually keep people out.

44:17

And what I need to do is invite people in because it's not ultimately about

44:21

the system never going down. It's can my assistant and I work as a team.

44:25

And then can I explain to my client, the clients,

44:28

I'm sorry this happened. We're doing our best.

44:31

And am I allowed to be seen as a human being

44:34

and not someone, and not this does not reflect

44:37

on my professionalism, right?

44:40

So yeah, I just, I don't know, how does all that land?

44:45

JANNINE: Yeah, the idea of support, right?

44:47

I think for a lot of folks, myself obviously included,

44:51

I need the support, right? I need to feel supported.

44:53

And I think for when I do talk to a lot of women,

44:57

they don't feel the support.

44:59

They feel like it's all on them.

45:01

And I think that there's a lot of times

45:04

it's their perception versus reality.

45:07

Do you find that to be the case?

45:10

ALI: Yeah, well, and that's, I mean, all of my work is on our perception,

45:13

is altering because with people, and I mean, I can get kind of technical here,

45:17

but in the emotional eating world,

45:19

it's like, wait 90 seconds and the emotion will pass.

45:23

But that's emotions, but if the emotion,

45:25

like uncertainty or inadequacy, I'm an imposter,

45:29

If that is connected to a story, meaning in our past,

45:33

those feelings were dangerous, right?

45:36

Or unsafe, we could even say. Like tired, for example, doesn't seem like it would be unsafe,

45:40

but so many of my clients feel like, well, I can't be productive.

45:43

I'm gonna fall behind. I'm not getting ahead, right? Like that feels dangerous because like me,

45:48

their whole identity was built on how hard they could work,

45:52

how productive, how much they can accomplish, right?

45:55

So it's like, oh my God. So the work is on perception.

45:59

So when clients say, I feel like this, right?

46:02

That's more than an emotion. That's a perception of, right?

46:06

Like, and you even said with your dad, like, oh, I wasn't conscious that I was thinking

46:10

I needed to fix him, but the perception was that you did.

46:14

So what's hard about this work is you're trying to see

46:17

the water you're swimming in and being like,

46:19

oh, how I feel, and it's nuanced,

46:22

'cause you do need to feel your feelings.

46:25

But once you feel like you need to feel your emotions,

46:28

but then you need to question the feelings of not

46:32

that it's not valid, right? I mean, in my Choose with Food group right now,

46:35

like people are feeling sadness, they're feeling anger,

46:37

but I'm like, the first, and all of that is important.

46:42

And once we let that wash over us, can we look at how we're viewing the situation,

46:47

not what we're seeing, not the contents of it, right?

46:49

Like with you and your dad, it's like,

46:52

oh no, you're still gonna go visit your dad, your dad's still gonna be your dad,

46:55

Jannine's still gonna be Jannine. And how are you viewing that relationship

47:00

is what we looked at, right? Not the contents of it.

47:03

So it's, right, how we often relate to food

47:06

is about calories. But what if we start looking at it as medicine?

47:10

What if we start looking at it as an invitation

47:13

into more wholeness, into calling back these parts

47:17

of ourselves that weren't rewarded or, you know,

47:19

that we thought weren't allowed to come out?

47:23

like the system going down, right?

47:26

JANNINE: Randomness, right?

47:29

ALI: And that stuff sticks with us. You know that lives in the body,

47:32

which generates our perception

47:34

because now we could get even more technical, but if people talk about mindset work,

47:39

but no one's located the mind, it's actually an invisible projection

47:44

of your body and brain together.

47:46

So when you say, I feel this, right? I feel scarcity.

47:50

Well, guess what? There's fucking really scarcity.

47:52

You know, and there's abundance And where are we for real in this present moment?

47:56

I don't know, right? And so we have to experiment to try to pierce

48:00

through our perception of what's actually happening.

48:05

JANNINE: I love that you mentioned the term experiment.

48:07

It's something that I use a lot in my own practice

48:10

because I think a lot of people are looking

48:12

for concrete answers and a quick fix, right?

48:15

They wanna know like, what's gonna fix me now, Doc?

48:19

What's gonna do this really fast? but when it comes to food hang ups

48:23

and many other things, let's be real,

48:26

that experimenting and trying things out

48:30

and being willing to do that is huge.

48:32

ALI: Yeah, well, and I think when people,

48:36

a lot of my clients self-identify as perfectionists, right?

48:39

And so experiment at first is scary,

48:43

but it eventually becomes liberating because it's like, oh, in one of the tools we use in my,

48:48

that I've created, it's called the Zoom Out tool.

48:50

And one of the like frames of it is like, remember, this is a data point, not an end point.

48:55

This is not make or break. There's no right or wrong.

48:57

And it's like, that loosens that perfectionist like,

49:01

right? Because perfectionist, we build up,

49:04

oh my God, if I do this perfectly, wild success, right?

49:08

(laughs) And if I do this wrong, horrible catastrophe,

49:13

horrible failure. And the experimenting shows you that it's neither.

49:17

It's always a mixed bag. It's like, okay, oh, I got some more answers here.

49:21

When I added protein, okay, my hunger went down.

49:24

Anxiety went down, interesting. But I'm still craving some sweets, okay, next step, right?

49:28

And so once you learn that everything's an experiment,

49:31

it's liberating of like, I'm gonna try that.

49:33

But you first have to have the self trust

49:36

and the perception that taking the experiment

49:39

isn't gonna really change anything all that much

49:42

other way. (laughs)

49:44

JANNINE: Right, It's just information.

49:46

ALI: It's yeah, yeah. But now I'm getting like maybe two technical,

49:51

I keep saying two technical, but two in the weeds is what I mean,

49:54

is when we are in that all or nothing black or white mindset,

49:57

we make everything about us. That's why it's really hard to not do that.

50:03

But we can separate ourselves from that.

50:05

And that's really the work that, that's also the work that is built into my work,

50:09

is how do we not make everything about us

50:12

so that we realize we're not inherently wrong,

50:14

broken, need to be fixed, rather we're just figuring it out as we go.

50:18

And it's safe to do that because, you know,

50:22

with the body, once you change a couple of things, okay, let's recalibrate, right?

50:25

JANNINE: That's it--

50:29

That's important, not being all about you,

50:31

'cause I know so many people, and this day and age that are like,

50:35

maybe I need to go back to my macros and change that around, right?

50:39

Like it goes back to the food math basically.

50:44

ALI: Yeah. JANNINE: And it's like, what if it's not food mat?

50:48

ALI: That's a great avoid the strategy

50:51

to avoid doing the emotional work. JANNINE: Right, it's exactly avoiding the emotional work.

50:56

And like, yeah, I think the older I get,

50:59

I'm seeing how, you know, I can step back now

51:02

and be like, oh boy, yep, that happened.

51:05

And I think for a lot of folks, I hope that this does help to kind of open up their mind

51:10

to really realize that there are a lot of hang ups

51:12

to why we are doing these food things.

51:16

Now you have a quiz that probably unlocks a lot of this for folks, the what's my comfort

51:23

eating style.

51:25

Give folks a little scoop about the quiz and then we'll get folks into learning more

51:29

about your podcast than you and your program, "Truce with Food."

51:33

So tell us a little bit about the quiz because I love to have folks look at those kind of

51:36

things because who doesn't love a quiz? ALI: I know, I know, I know.

51:40

So we talked about your avoid, right? Oh, I'm avoiding.

51:43

And so what that quiz does is when we have these tail triggers,

51:46

when we're feeling tired-- and we can also-- maybe it's getting too long,

51:49

but loop back to the imposter one, right?

51:53

But tired, anxious, inadequate, and loneliness,

51:58

when we feel those, we feel at risk.

52:00

And so we try to protect ourselves in some way, right?

52:04

And so that quiz will help you figure out, what is your dominant protection strategy?

52:09

And that leads to really a self-fulfilling prophecy

52:12

of you're going to continue to eat.

52:16

And like in the case with your dad, you're gonna continue probably to think,

52:19

"My dad's my dad, I'm me."

52:21

And have this separation that is gonna ultimately

52:25

lead both of you in a fixed position

52:27

that will prove that you're right.

52:30

And yet there was all this possibility in between there.

52:34

And so, and I mentioned the accommodate those,

52:37

That is part of the strategy, right?

52:40

I'm thinking we have to be like the fixer

52:42

and accommodate everybody else

52:45

and think it's either our needs or their needs, right?

52:47

My client who with her sisters,

52:50

if I say what I need, it's either that

52:53

or people are new, mad at me and I'm gone. Instead of, wait a second, how can I bring this up?

52:58

Because it could be a win-win situation

53:00

if I approach this the right way of what I wanna say, I think is dysfunctional

53:05

about or gather things, you know what I mean?

53:08

But say it in a way that they can actually hear it.

53:10

So you can take that quiz to see how you basically

53:14

both, it's protective resistance.

53:16

It's how you protect yourself from giving yourself

53:20

what you need in that moment. So that is, that's what the quiz is about.

53:25

Yeah. JANNINE: Nice, nice.

53:28

Protecting yourself from giving yourself what you need.

53:32

Dang. ALI: Yeah, 'cause it feels risky, it feels risky, right?

53:36

(laughs) JANNINE: Yeah, many levels, and even exploring what you need

53:41

and being comfortable enough to say,

53:44

'cause I think for a lot of women too,

53:46

there's this feeling of,

53:49

I shouldn't want that, right?

53:51

There's that guilt, I shouldn't want that, I shouldn't want to have XYZ, right?

53:57

Or whatever it may be, I'm being selfish, this is probably another term.

54:00

ALI: Totally, yeah, I mean, that was with my cancer.

54:02

It's like, I should be over this. Anytime you hear this, should, shouldn't, have to.

54:08

Dr. Albert Ellis, who is one of, he's, I think he's being cognitive behavioral therapy,

54:15

which is, must or minus for me, but he called it musturbation, which I love.

54:19

It's like, I must, I have to.

54:21

It's like, whoa.

54:23

So yeah, yeah, but for sure.

54:26

JANNINE: Oh my goodness. That's a good, I like that story.

54:31

ALI: It's easy to remember, right?

54:33

Anytime we have some sexual reference,

54:35

we're gonna remember it. That with potty humor.

54:38

I mean, if there's a fart or something attached

54:40

to it, I am going to remember. Cause-- ALI: Oh my God, I love that.

54:43

My son is four. You Talked about having kids that I had,

54:46

I was actually told I was infertile because I was in early menopause.

54:50

And I was in early menopause, but you can get still get pregnant.

54:53

And so my son, I'm 45.

54:55

My son is four and a half. And he is in laughing at fart stage.

54:59

So it's just, it's so funny.

55:03

It makes me laugh so hard. JANNINE: Man, I love that age.

55:08

I love that age. I apparently have some connection deeply to that age.

55:12

(laughs) ALI: It's a fun, it is such a fun age, it is such a fun age.

55:16

JANNINE: Goodness. Well, let's tell folks about your amazing podcast,

55:21

insatiable and how they can work with you as well,

55:24

especially with the Truce with Food Program.

55:27

And I also know, and I think I want, with a lot of coaches that listen to this podcast,

55:32

and you have a suggestion for coaches too. So please give us the script.

55:35

Tell us all the things. So how folks can find you?

55:37

ALI: Yeah. So yeah, if you love podcasts, I have the podcast Insatiable, 280 episodes started it

55:45

in 2016. She probably listened to some of those.

55:48

I'm sure my thinking has changed.

55:51

But we did just do a whole series on like menopause and perimenopause transition

55:56

because I thought I knew a lot and then found myself 30 pounds above my

56:02

post-pregnancy weight one week, one year post-partum, not one week.

56:06

And was just kind of like, "What?"

56:09

So it was everything I wish I knew before going through that.

56:13

And then yeah, my "Why am I doing this now?" live program, which the group experience is...

56:19

It's the group is so important.

56:21

You have a safe container to explore this stuff. It's a non-judgment zone,

56:25

but it's also like not no judgment. You're not gonna make progress.

56:28

Like, oh, it's just as what it is. It's a constructive zone.

56:31

And that's really, it's like a truce with food tapas.

56:34

It gives you an entry into this work.

56:37

Some people just need that, and then they're good to go.

56:39

Other people go on to truce with food. And I credit whatever people,

56:43

if people join YMiting This Now, I credit that towards truce with food.

56:46

But why I'm adding this now, It's a 12-week program to really tackle stress eating.

56:50

These experiences that we just kind of coached through.

56:56

I coached you through a couple. But you experiment, and then it's like this work, this didn't.

57:00

And so that provides three months of really learning

57:02

what your triggers are and what job food is doing for you

57:07

and how to phase out the retirement of food

57:09

doing that job for you over time.

57:13

And then Truce with Food builds on that.

57:15

And it's, I do bring in gut health and blood sugar in that.

57:19

And that opens every January.

57:21

And then we look at the deeper stories

57:23

that are tied to our stress. So we talked a little bit about some stressors you had,

57:28

some stressors I had, right?

57:31

I couldn't ask for help a lot because I had this big deeper story of being a burden.

57:35

And so "Truce with Food" really helps us change those stories

57:39

and self-author news stories.

57:43

And then, yeah, thank you for asking about the certification.

57:46

And then in April, I will have what's called

57:48

the Truce coaching certification. And this is not for people,

57:52

the Truce coaching certification is a framework

57:55

for stubborn and sustainable change.

57:58

So it's not for me to create a lot of new alleys.

58:03

It's not that. It's for you to come in and learn a toolbox

58:08

where you can, of change, and you can insert the existing tools that you have,

58:13

but also understand the whole structure of what people have to go to really change

58:17

on an identity level. So for example, one of my clients is a naturopathic physician

58:22

and she's someone who is also sober.

58:24

So after going through the Truce Coaching Certification,

58:28

she created a signature program called Swell

58:31

that helps women who are a couple years

58:33

into the sobriety journey really repair

58:35

from what drinking has done

58:37

and also help them continue that emotional journey

58:41

because it's a process.

58:43

Another one of my clients named Kinsey,

58:46

she created her signature program called Restore.

58:49

She has a ministry background and a clergy background

58:51

and a therapy background. And she had gone through Truce With Food,

58:54

herself found it so profound.

58:56

And so went through the certification and she works with clergy who are really struggling

59:01

with burnout because they are people who take care

59:04

of the rest of us and they're told you have to put yourself,

59:08

put yourself last, put yourself last. I mean, that's not implicit, but it's implicit, you know?

59:13

So she really, and she's really coaching them through,

59:18

okay, what is the stubborn resistance to not taking care of yourself?

59:22

So that's a few examples.

59:25

Another client I'm thinking, Erin, she's a trainer.

59:27

So she gets in people through the door, they wanna exercise and then, you know,

59:32

any trainer or nutritionist will tell you like consistency

59:35

and sticking with something is the elusive black box

59:39

our industry. And so she takes people when they fall off the wagon with exercise, but

59:44

she also has a food background nervous system and has created her, I think it's called Soul

59:49

Hunger is her signature program. So anyone who wants to create a signature program that

59:53

gives people really life changing sustainable results and clinicians and coaches and therapists

59:59

go through the process themselves because we can only take clients as far as we've gone

1:00:05

ourselves. So if you're interested in truth with food, you can do truth the

1:00:09

truth coaching certification and be able to use all the tools plus go through

1:00:13

the process yourself and most of the goals that people bring to the truth

1:00:17

coaching certification, they can be around food but a lot of people bring

1:00:21

business goals and why they feel stuck in putting themselves out there,

1:00:25

charging more whatever it is, is what they do, is what they bring to the

1:00:31

process. So and that is trauma-informed ICF, international coaching,

1:00:36

federation approved for CEUs and also for clinical nutrition specialists, you can get

1:00:42

continuing education credits for that as well. So it's certified through a lot of the holistic

1:00:48

thinking type of people organizations. JANNINE: Very cool. Very cool. I think it's incredibly important and

1:00:55

I'm glad you shared that because I know a lot of folks who listen to the podcast are coaches and

1:00:59

And you know, let's face it, you're right.

1:01:01

We can only get clients as far as we've gone ourselves.

1:01:05

And definitely this is why I've started to go very far into the space of exploring, you

1:01:10

know, my subconscious mind and all of those behaviors.

1:01:13

Because as much as, you know, my training for naturopathic medicine was deep, it was

1:01:19

not like we learned about counseling, but we did not learn about our subconscious mind

1:01:25

to the level of that I'm learning now.

1:01:27

And so I want those. ALI: It's where it controls 90% of everything.

1:01:31

I mean, our stories that I was talking about, that's all in the, and it's not subconscious,

1:01:35

unconscious, whatever you want to call it, because it's so deep.

1:01:38

It's just like, this is what has secured us success in life.

1:01:41

And this is what hasn't. It's like that simple.

1:01:45

So we have to look at those and we're going to change the behaviors that we are struggling

1:01:49

with. It's a deep, it's a deep, you know, we're talking about mid, we mentioned mid life here

1:01:53

in there, but it's a really deep spiritual and soul invitation, I think, especially at

1:01:58

midlife to say, "Okay, it's my time."

1:02:02

JANNINE: Well, and you know, so many people do go through the midlife kind of crisis component.

1:02:09

And this is your time to explore yourself.

1:02:12

And now we have the information to do it because nobody was talking about this, you know,

1:02:18

20 years ago, when I got out of-- ALI: Three years ago.  JANNINE: Five years ago, right.

1:02:22

You're so correct. You're so correct.

1:02:24

It's so important. And so yeah, folks listening, this is for you guys.

1:02:30

Embrace it. Go check out Ali.

1:02:33

Go check out Insatiable. Go check out all the information.

1:02:35

We will have it at doctorjkrausend.com.

1:02:38

You guys can see all the info on Truce with Food. You can see the info on Ali's certification program

1:02:42

and all of the details there.

1:02:45

Ali's, gosh, thank you so much for coming on.

1:02:47

Thank you for coaching me. Some little spot coaching, love it.

1:02:50

So it's a cool game from just me being me,

1:02:54

letting you guys know what goes on in this little noggin here.

1:02:57

ALI: Well, I appreciate that, I mean, you are a deep thinker.

1:03:02

So I appreciate that you're willing to go there. Anyone who goes to naturopathic physician school

1:03:06

is definitely curious and willing to think outside the box.

1:03:10

And so I really appreciate the work you're doing in the world.

1:03:13

JANNINE: Thanks, Ali. Can't wait to put this podcast out.

1:03:16

This is a good one, thank you.

1:03:18

ALI: Yeah. Hey, health

1:03:21

junkies, thank you so much for listening to another episode of the health fix podcast to help support my mission to bring you tips, tricks, and tools to help you optimize your health. I'd be grateful if you'd like subscribe and write me a review for the podcast.

1:03:34

And if you hear a product you're interested in on the podcast, you can now go over to my website to learn more. That's a doctor spelled out J K R A U S E N D dot com.

1:03:48

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1:03:54

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1:04:02

So I can keep bringing you quality health information

1:04:06

I appreciate your support and I'm honored to have you listening to my podcast as a fellow health junkie. Thanks again

1:04:16

Hey fellow health junkie, thanks for listening to the health fix podcast. If you enjoyed tuning in,

1:04:21

please help support me to get the word out about the podcast.

1:04:24

Subscribe, rate and review and just get that word out. Thanks again for listening.

1:04:31

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1:04:34

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rub that in the...