0:03

Welcome to The Hidden Gin, a production

0:05

of I Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild

0:07

from Aaron Minkey. Hi,

0:30

and welcome to this very special bonus

0:32

series of The Hidden Gin. The interviews.

0:36

In these episodes, you'll hear me talk to people

0:38

from all walks of life who have had GIN

0:40

experiences, are drawn to the stories

0:42

of Gin, and draw lessons from

0:45

these stories. You'll hear from artists,

0:47

scholars, writers, journalists, and Gin

0:50

exorcists, and even from me

0:52

as I discuss how and why this series came

0:54

about in a very personal conversation

0:57

with my husband. Thanks for listening

1:00

and enjoy. Would

1:04

you believe it if I told you there is a deep

1:06

and abiding connection between the fashion

1:09

world and the supernatural? Well,

1:11

you might not, because I didn't, not until

1:13

I spoke to today's guest,

1:16

Amana there Now Almana is

1:18

a former fashion writer and editor and a

1:20

total fashionista. She's worked at Vogue,

1:23

l Style, the New York Times, New York Magazine,

1:25

where she was a founding editor of The

1:27

Cut blog. She's written for a whole lot of

1:29

publications, including Yahoo Style, Fashionista,

1:32

x O Jay, Refinery twenty nine, and

1:35

for big fashion brands like berged Off, Goodman

1:37

and H and M's Ten Years of Style

1:40

volume. After toiling in

1:42

the fashion ranks for over fifteen years,

1:44

she now writes full time in the desert

1:46

mountains, where she's detoxing from her once

1:49

glamorous life, and she's

1:51

the author of a fantastic, hilarious,

1:54

dark serial killer

1:56

comedy called Fashion Victim, which

1:58

was her first novel published a couple of years

2:00

ago. We had a lot of fun in today's conversation,

2:03

and I learned a lot about the fashion industry and

2:05

Almona's generational ties to GIN.

2:08

But just a little word of warning, because

2:10

Almina is out in the rugged wilderness

2:12

of Arizona, we did have some

2:15

connection issues here and there, so the audio might

2:17

sound a little bit spotty and not quite as crystal

2:19

clear as I would have wished, So sorry about

2:21

that. But still, we had a fantastic conversation,

2:24

had a lot of laughs, and also I got some

2:26

genuinely scary chills. So

2:28

check it out yourself. My interview with author Almanna

2:31

the Hi.

2:34

Almanna, thanks for joining us this week. Thanks

2:37

for having me. I'm excited to talk to you.

2:40

Well, so I've told our listeners um all about

2:42

your background that you're a former fashion writer

2:44

editor, and I've told them a little bit about

2:46

your first book now, um, but

2:49

I want you to tell them more about your

2:51

first book, because, first of all, I mean, it's

2:53

your first novel and it's got some high

2:55

praise, right, I mean it was, Um

2:58

it was one of the best crime in Miss three debuts

3:01

by Crime Reads. Uh

3:04

it's I mean, like I saw like a whole half

3:06

page of all kinds of accolades, which is amazing

3:08

really for a first book. So

3:11

congratulations on that, Thank

3:14

you, thank you. It was when

3:17

I left the fashion world, I

3:19

had this idea, I wouldn't it be funny

3:22

to have a serial killer set

3:25

in the fashion world and no one takes

3:27

her seriously or believe she's the

3:29

killer. So that was kind of the idea

3:31

of it. And then I just I

3:34

have to I have to ask you were you were

3:36

you thinking about se real killing like people

3:38

in the industries that will happen to like made

3:41

you write this book? Oh my god, listen,

3:44

it was fifteen years of being on a diet,

3:48

like having to wear high heels. Yes,

3:50

yes, absolutely, that's

3:53

tough. There's definitely people I

3:55

kept in mind. Yeah,

3:56

yeah, we were you really fun

3:58

to write. You know, it sounds

4:00

like a really fun read. I have ordered it, but I haven't

4:02

read it yet. Um, so I can't wait to get into it. It

4:04

It sounds like the kind of thing I'm gonna take like the next time

4:07

I take a break. But let me ask you. Were you a writer

4:09

before this or you just kind of went right into it? Yeah?

4:12

I mean I was. I was

4:14

an editor slash writer, so mostly I did like

4:16

blog writing for like like New York Magazine.

4:19

I launched the Cut blog and

4:21

I would you know, edit and right on there. And

4:23

I would write for l and

4:25

edit for them. So, you know, like all

4:27

of places I've I've worked, I was always editing

4:30

and writing. Um. But

4:32

I never thought of myself as a novelist.

4:35

I think, like you know, you you think,

4:37

oh, though those people get M F A S and IOWA

4:39

and stuff, and I didn't do that. But

4:41

then I thought, well, why don't I just

4:43

write this and see what happens and we'll

4:46

go from there. And you know kind of what I

4:48

did. Well, I mean that

4:50

says and and uh Fashion

4:52

Victim was published one ten Yeah

4:58

right, And but you're working on as sending. I'm working

5:00

on the next book. So

5:02

I'm working on a second book. So, Um,

5:05

After after New York and

5:07

that in the fashion world, I moved to near

5:09

Sedona, Arizona, where my father

5:11

lives, and I decided

5:14

I wanted to kind of capture the insane

5:16

weirdness that is hear Um.

5:19

And so that's the it's a it's a

5:21

weird cookie place. I mean, stunningly

5:23

beautiful because people are

5:25

a little weird. You know, I'm not gonna lie. It's

5:27

like crystals mixed

5:29

with maga hats, you know. And you're it's

5:32

a bizarre place. Well, you know, I

5:34

follow you on Twitter and I follow your

5:37

I follow your posts on Twitter where you're

5:39

documenting all the wildlife and I'm like, oh my

5:42

gosh, she's living like in a nat Geo special.

5:46

I live on the side of a mountain and

5:49

I have a well and there's

5:52

a tarantula that hangs outside the front

5:54

door. He's a really big guy.

5:56

So he's

5:59

a big guy. But they're very friendly and like not

6:01

friendly, but they don't bother humans.

6:04

Um. And it's just a complete

6:06

one eat from my life in New York, like

6:08

completely, and

6:10

and why did you decide to do that? It was it was

6:12

it just to be closer to your father, or you just needed

6:15

like a cleanse. Yeah,

6:19

well that's actually I've

6:22

been in New York for over twenty years, and

6:24

I I was birked out, you know, I just I hit

6:26

that point where I didn't want to leave my apartment

6:29

and I was like, you know this, this is not healthy.

6:31

And my mom had passed away and my dad

6:33

was by himself, and you know, he's in his eighties.

6:36

So I thought, you know, this is a really good time

6:38

for me to be out there, so we can keep an

6:40

eye on him, make sure he's taken care of. And

6:43

it's pretty fun, a little weird, but

6:46

fun. I love following your when

6:48

you put tweet about your interactions with

6:50

your dad. But I'm trying to remember,

6:53

and I can't quite remember when I started following

6:55

you or why. I know, I was looking for South Asian

6:58

writers to follow at some point in I don't

7:00

know, but I feel like I sort of following

7:02

you because you tweeted something about a gin

7:05

um, which trobably

7:07

did you probably did right, And

7:10

so your second book as stood, I

7:12

mean, tell tell us about a little bout

7:14

your second book without giving it all away.

7:18

So the second book is

7:20

called Kissmith and hopefully

7:22

and I'm still finishing it and dealing with

7:24

the publishing world and getting it published. But um,

7:27

it follows different women who

7:30

are here in Sedona, and

7:32

also one who happens to be this and

7:35

she's had a very strange upbringing.

7:38

Um, not because she's this, but because her

7:40

you know, her family was just weird. And I feel

7:42

like that's an important thing. It's like, this is about

7:45

everyone's family can be weird, regardless

7:47

of where they're from, you know, And it's

7:49

really about like finding your place and

7:51

finding your people. And at

7:53

the same time, of course, there's a serial killer because I

7:56

really enjoy killing people in books.

7:58

Um, It's a really right way to get

8:01

your anger and annoyance,

8:03

how you know. So it's

8:05

really just so it's following all these women and you're trying

8:07

to figure out who to murder. It is so you

8:10

know, all these like scam artists, fake

8:12

healers are are turning up dead

8:14

in the desert, and so it's like, who's the killer,

8:17

what's happening? Um, So

8:19

that's when I'm I'm working on now. But

8:22

there is thank

8:26

you Well

8:28

The Gin is gonna be my next book, um,

8:31

and that one I'm I'm

8:33

still hammering out the idea. But what

8:35

it is is it it's this woman

8:38

who um has a gin and

8:40

she didn't know it, and so she makes

8:42

this wish when she's five and you

8:44

know, her birthday to be and her name is Dunia

8:47

Um. She wants to be the best Dunia in the world,

8:49

and Dunia means world. So

8:53

she what she doesn't realize is

8:55

that she's basically made this wish.

8:57

And as she gets older, she starts

8:59

getting a Google alerts for

9:01

other Dunias who are dying

9:04

all over the world in random, bizarre,

9:07

not at all seemingly related ways. And

9:09

that came to me because I've been getting Google alerts

9:11

for Almanna up theres all over the world who

9:13

are dying like car accidents,

9:16

they have been shootings, and it's I've

9:18

had like three or four and it's so surreal

9:20

where you're like, oh my god, I'm sorry, other me

9:22

like wow. So she

9:25

now has to try to figure out how to how

9:27

to make this stop and how she can

9:29

be the best her and so that's the whole book.

9:31

And like you know, is she also everyone thinks she's

9:33

going crazy, you know, So that's that's

9:35

the idea for that next one that actually

9:38

started you know what, I want to

9:40

read all the books. They all sound So

9:43

that's just a fantastic idea. And

9:45

I know you told me you were doing like you're like

9:47

starting to do like some real research on

9:49

jin stuff, but you don't really you

9:52

know, the research is like you know, I'm doing.

9:54

I did the research obviously for my series.

9:56

You're gonna do the research for your book. But we grew

9:58

up also around on all this, and

10:00

I want to talk about that. So

10:03

where's your family from, by the way, I feel

10:05

like we all have. Oh, so,

10:07

my my father from Lahore. I mean he was

10:09

from India, but you know after partitioning, right, was mostly

10:12

in Lahore. And my mother was from India and

10:14

then she was in because

10:16

a very small village. Yeah,

10:18

it used to be small. It used to be small. Yeah, but

10:21

they're basically in the northern

10:23

Punjab region. Yeah. My family is from the similar

10:25

region, same place. Yeah. Yeah,

10:28

my dad's Punjabi. My mother's is

10:30

a Baton and my

10:33

dad's had the family SOUPI So

10:35

okay, that's where a lot of

10:38

the strangeness has come in into

10:40

our family. Okay,

10:42

So let's start there, because

10:45

I want to know, Like in so

10:47

in your family growing up, we're

10:49

jin stories a thing that like we're just

10:51

kind of like like very common. Was it the kind

10:53

of thing where kids got together and then they stop

10:56

stories or no,

10:59

they were like time stories, like my

11:01

dad would like tell us these stories about this.

11:04

Um. He would tell us the craziest bedtime

11:06

stories like this. He grew up in a village,

11:09

and you know when he grew up, and you know, he was born in

11:11

the thirties, it was a little different. Didn't necessarily

11:13

grow up with his parents. He grew

11:15

up with other relatives. You know, it's just

11:17

kind of loosey goosey, I guess back

11:20

then. And he

11:22

had there was a one room. So his great

11:24

grandfather, uh was

11:26

a muffie and he would

11:29

teach to jin Okay,

11:31

Okay, I'm gonna stop right there, all

11:34

right, Okay, Well I gotta back this up. Okay,

11:38

So you said you said his

11:40

grandfather was a muffy and for for people who might

11:42

not be familiar with the terminology, and mufti is basically

11:45

like a religious teacher, right yeah.

11:49

Yeah, And it was his great grandfather. But

11:51

that's important because his grand father's

11:54

his great grand his grandfather's didn't get the gin.

11:57

He was supposed to be passed down when his great

11:59

grandfather died, and he

12:01

didn't do that because he didn't think his sons

12:03

were able to deal with this. So

12:06

when you say that he had as

12:08

yeah, when you say he had a school

12:11

of gin that he taught,

12:14

Okay, I'm sorry, I gotta ask this question.

12:16

Was he the only one who could see that's the classroom?

12:19

Because was there anybody else? Or

12:21

did you he just go to a classroom and it was like

12:24

him in an empty room? And that's

12:26

the big is are they? I think

12:28

I was just like in their house and there were two

12:30

male jin that would come and they

12:32

would do favors

12:35

for my grand my great my dad's great grandfather.

12:37

Um, Like if he went and he

12:40

couldn't find his wallet, a new wallet

12:42

would just show up. Or if they were

12:44

out of butter, butter would just show

12:46

up outside their door. So it was really

12:48

strange. And my father grew

12:51

up with this in that there was one

12:53

room in the house no one could go into.

12:55

They went into that and I always,

12:58

as a child, I thought he meant it was a pulper guy.

13:00

I didn't understand quite

13:02

that it was a gin until like later

13:04

in life, and I was like, I put it all together, and

13:07

the only person would go into that room was my

13:09

father, and so he would keep his toys

13:12

in there so nobody

13:14

would invest with them. And that's

13:16

how he became, you know,

13:18

sorry to know the gin himself. So

13:21

okay, so that room, you're saying, nobody in the else

13:23

in the family had permission to go in

13:25

that room, and his great grandfather decided,

13:27

I'm not gonna pass these gin down

13:30

but for but your father had some kind of definity,

13:32

some affinity or ability or openness

13:35

that allowed him to connect with them.

13:39

He does, but he but he denies it.

13:42

So I would say, like twenty years ago he

13:44

would have been more open, but now

13:46

he's like, I don't know. He honestly, it's like, I

13:48

have no idea what what what they are, what

13:51

happens, But that was

13:54

part of my childhood and so that's

13:56

what he says to me. And so and he has

13:58

a lot of stories of other people in the family

14:00

dealing with the gin. And his

14:03

mother used to um,

14:06

who he says I remind him of, which is a little

14:08

scary because she used to talk to the dead

14:11

um and she always had these horrible

14:13

headaches, and she would be,

14:15

I know, I listen, I have the headaches,

14:17

but I'm not talking to dead people as far as

14:20

I know. And so it's

14:22

like the whole family had these weird

14:25

talents, let's say, for

14:27

lack of a better word, UM.

14:29

So he for him, this was really normal

14:31

and natural, and then you know, you

14:34

come to America and it's not. So

14:37

I think he just sort of stopped believing.

14:41

Oh did he actually stop believing or did

14:43

he just And I also know your

14:45

father, your father, is he a psychologist or

14:47

a psychiatrist? He's

14:50

a he was a psychiatrist. Um.

14:54

And you know he's really like you know, you know this, he's

14:56

you gotta be an engineer, lawyer, or a doctor,

14:59

as you know. So he came to the US as

15:01

an engineer actually and then became

15:03

and then went to medical school after we were

15:05

all born because he realized they're

15:08

gonna be expensive kids. So

15:10

he became a shrink. And

15:13

and sometimes I asked him, like, you know why,

15:16

like does that impact how you're viewing

15:18

things? Do you think it was like an insanity

15:21

thing or is it real? And he honestly

15:23

doesn't doesn't know, like he doesn't have the answer

15:25

to it, and I don't think anyone actually has the answer to

15:27

that. Well, let me ask you for such a

15:30

part of our Yeah, well,

15:32

let yeah, let me ask you this. Um. When you say

15:34

he doesn't have the answer, I guess my

15:36

my question is to what question? Like,

15:38

what are what are some of the experiences that

15:40

you can share with us that he had that he

15:42

he cannot has not been able to answer explain.

15:47

Um. I think, well, I think

15:49

a lot of it is his. Um,

15:52

well, I had an experience that he hasn't been able

15:54

to explain. Um. But the

15:57

the story in our family, and

15:59

I know every family has their own stories about

16:01

gin. So that's why it's a little difficult to get

16:03

like research because everyone's stories are

16:05

different. Um is that the

16:08

they're supposed to pass on our bloodline and

16:11

to a man of course. And

16:14

so I asked myself, well, who has them then? Like right

16:16

now, who has the chin? Because

16:18

let's be real, they're gonna need anyone

16:20

to be come in to me. I

16:23

want to hang out with them. I want to I just want to see

16:25

what they are and um.

16:27

Once so in the fashion world, you

16:30

and I touched on this in my fashion book everyone

16:33

has a psychic, a terror reader, astrologers

16:36

really just really no fashion

16:39

world, yes,

16:41

way totally. Like you go to dinner and they're

16:43

like, oh, this is my things healer or

16:45

this is nice psychic medium and I'm like, how nice

16:48

to meet you. Great thanks people, you know. So

16:50

it's all it's really a big part of

16:52

the fashion world, which I don't think people talk about

16:54

enough. And there was this one shaman

16:57

in in New York, in Tribeca

17:00

who all the fashion girls were going to. And

17:02

I thought, well, I want to see what she's about,

17:05

you know, like why not, and

17:07

maybe she can find this gin, not

17:10

get rid of it, just find it

17:12

and tell me where it might be. So

17:14

I go see her and I explained

17:17

to her that, you know, this is what I'm looking for. And

17:19

she's like, okay, well, I don't know much about

17:21

your culture, but let's just see she does

17:23

all these things, like she's spinning on me and

17:25

you know, rouble whatever, all of it, you know,

17:27

and it's like it's in a small like treatment

17:30

room, but you know, she like

17:32

there's enough space where she can be against the wall and can't

17:34

come near me, you know what I mean, Like there's like enough it's

17:36

about like ten ft. So

17:39

at one point she started doing something

17:42

and I swear to god, something started sitting

17:44

on my chest. And I'm not

17:47

prone to hallucinations,

17:50

so I was like, oh, this is really uncomfortable

17:53

and weird, like I feel like there's something on

17:55

me and I can't breathe and the woman

17:57

is across the room, so it's not her. And

18:00

she starts screaming because

18:02

she said something's trying to choke her. And

18:05

I was just like, you have to say, whatever

18:07

you did, you just kissed something off, just stop, just don't

18:10

do anymore. She's like, I'm getting rid of it.

18:12

It's like, don't get rid of it. Just

18:15

got goose bumps. I

18:19

So then, how did that end? What happened anything?

18:23

Well, the weird thing was is I used

18:25

to and this is people are gonna thinking crazy.

18:27

I used to always feel like

18:31

there was something around and like

18:33

I'm on the subway later at night, but

18:36

I know I'm I'm fine because there's something near

18:38

me and I can't explain it more than that. But

18:40

after I went to that lady, that feeling

18:42

was gone. And that

18:45

was a weird sensation because I've gotten

18:47

so used to feeling like oh, I'm

18:49

gonna be fine because there's some I don't know what it is, but

18:51

there's something here. But did you always have that

18:53

feeling? Did you grow up

18:55

with that feeling? Yeah?

18:59

Uh, I don't think I recognize

19:01

that feeling until I was an adult.

19:04

But you know, are like my dad

19:07

would you know. He would make us watch

19:09

The Exorcist when we were children and

19:12

buy us crazy magic books and stuff.

19:14

So we were always really

19:17

I don't want to say like not witchy because

19:20

that's more of a Western concept, but

19:22

you know, more in tune with

19:24

that part of life, Like it was

19:26

just normal. Why I'd be like, yeah, I want this voodoo book and

19:28

he's like, okay, here, read it, you know, and

19:31

I'd be like ted reading about voodoo

19:33

and it was just so normal for us.

19:35

Um. But he

19:39

himself has gotten to the point where, you know, be

19:41

he he's not scared

19:44

of other realms, but he thinks, is

19:46

if jin are real, why

19:49

isn't there a Jin army? Why

19:51

aren't Why isn't anyone like raising

19:53

them up to do things?

19:56

And I do not have an

19:58

answer to that question. You

20:00

know, It's like it's like it's a valid question. I

20:02

don't know I've actually thought about that. I've

20:04

thought about that, um

20:07

and and my my my conclusion

20:09

is because nobody has Solomon's ring anymore, so

20:12

you know, he was the only one who was able to really control

20:14

the Jin. Yeah. Maybe, but I also

20:17

think that, you know, people are scared because

20:20

I think what happens for people who

20:22

actually, um want to

20:24

summon Gin for whatever reason or

20:26

contact Jin. We all know that

20:28

if if we believe in Jin, if this is

20:30

like a thing, we also have to accept the fact that

20:32

we can't really control them. Maybe we could bargain with

20:35

them, maybe we could ask them to do ourselves. Yeah,

20:38

and so then maybe there's that they can do whatever

20:40

they want. Yeah, well, let me ask

20:43

you, and I think some some yes,

20:46

go ahead that some members on my

20:48

mom's side, I think that Jin are

20:50

evil and they're scared of them. Whereas

20:54

I kind of see it as well, they were part of our family.

20:56

So you know, regardless

20:59

of whether that they're they're bad, they're they're still part

21:01

of our family and they need to be

21:03

recognized and you know, honored in

21:05

that way. So that's the way I see

21:07

it as opposed to like I want to summon a genie

21:10

or something you know, we'll be

21:12

right back after the short break. So

21:16

you said, Um, you told me earlier that

21:18

your father is a Sufi, and can you, like,

21:21

can you explain at least how you understand the

21:23

connection between like that kind of

21:26

system like a Sufi, which is and for folks

21:28

aren't familiar, it's kind of like a it's

21:30

like a mystical I'm some people think

21:32

of Sufi's mystics, but it's not really,

21:35

but it's it is a more spiritual, mystical

21:37

approach to religion. Um.

21:40

Yeah, so can you explain to me what you how you

21:42

understand the connection between that and yeah,

21:47

yes, and I'll be probably honest. We were

21:50

never the most religious family. Um.

21:53

And like my mother was, but

21:55

you know she she's as

21:58

typical Bakistani as you could get. But

22:01

for my dad, it was always about

22:03

a spiritual connection with God. And

22:06

and it's a personal connection. So it's not

22:08

about necessarily going to a mosue, and it's

22:10

not necessarily praying five

22:12

times a day, but it was about

22:14

just having that connection. Um,

22:17

and I that's how I feel about

22:19

things. You know, I'm spiritual. I

22:21

don't know what

22:24

religion is the right religion and you know, I just

22:26

think that if you have this connection personally,

22:29

that's great. Um. So

22:31

we kind of grew up not

22:33

being as as Muslim as we could

22:35

have, you know, like my cousins on my

22:37

mom's side who grew up in the US,

22:40

we're much more religious than we were. Um,

22:43

but my dad would drop these weird

22:46

stories on us. Like, Okay,

22:48

I was four and I watched the

22:50

Exorcist because again, my dad's funny

22:52

that way, and my older brother

22:55

was like, well, I'm gonna it's

22:57

a true story. And so you

22:59

know, for yr oldly mind is blown. You know,

23:01

I'm like, oh my god, my sister's

23:04

gonna get possessed. I'm gonna have to share a

23:06

room in the Puzuzu holy

23:09

cow, totally panicking. And

23:12

my dad says, it's okay,

23:14

I know how to do exorcisms, and

23:16

he was dead serious. It was

23:18

just like, oh,

23:21

that was a weird thing to say

23:23

to a four year old, And as a

23:25

four year old, you actually remember it, you remember

23:27

that it's stuck with you. Yes,

23:30

because I was so scared. I was

23:32

terrified that my sister would become possessed

23:35

because we shared a room and I

23:37

would sleepwalk, and in my sleepwalking

23:39

I would be watching her in my sleep, like literally

23:42

standing by her bed, watching her

23:44

to make sure she wouldn't. It

23:46

was creepy. We were a creepy family. So

23:50

what about your siblings? Did your siblings have your

23:52

siblings have unexplained experiences like you? Um,

23:58

no, they're they're

24:00

more hesitant to dive into things. Um

24:03

Like, my brother keeps telling me, don't, don't mess

24:05

with us, don't and I's like, you know, I'm just reading about

24:07

it, and because I find it interesting,

24:09

you know, because I think being

24:12

in the West, you are, you know,

24:14

in the US, you're surrounded

24:17

by the superstitions and and

24:19

and the mysticism that we have here, which

24:21

is you know, witches and a Native Americans

24:24

and druids and whatever. But what's

24:27

laughing at our stories? And so

24:29

I for me, it's really interesting to dive

24:31

into this and and and find these

24:33

stories because it's like, oh, well

24:35

this makes sense to me and this is

24:37

a part of who I am. And it's

24:39

just I don't know, it's a weird way to feel more complete,

24:41

I would say, but my brother and sister

24:43

don't. Although I think my sister has a ghost, but

24:46

you know it,

24:48

Okay, Why why do you think your sister

24:50

has a ghost. I'm sorry, I gotta follow that up.

24:54

So my I threw,

24:56

I've seen a feason on my niece. And my nieces

24:59

is three and adorable,

25:01

adorable kids, and she

25:04

told my sister that there's a man

25:06

over there and she's

25:08

talking to and so my sister said, oh, well,

25:10

is it a good person? And she said

25:13

no, And so we were like,

25:15

well, maybe that's just her being a little a little

25:17

weird. But then my sister keeps waking

25:19

up in the middle of the night hearing somebody call

25:21

mom and it's not her kids.

25:24

And sometimes she's awake when it happens, because I

25:26

was like, maybe you're dreaming. Maybe it's sleep paralysis,

25:28

you know, what are the Maybe it's your neighbors,

25:30

Maybe it's a cat outside making a weird

25:33

noise. We've gone through all

25:35

of the possibilities. And so she would just wake up and

25:37

hear someone saying Mom, or she'll

25:39

be you know, reading a book and somebody else mom,

25:41

and it's not kids at all. So

25:44

it's been a little weird. Yeah,

25:47

that's actually terrifying to me. I'm

25:50

terrified. So I know, I know,

25:53

I mean, I've been in that health Yeah,

25:58

so I said, I've been in her own some I didn't

26:01

sends anything off? But never

26:04

know? Is she also does

26:06

she also live in where you are right now out

26:08

in Arizona? No,

26:11

she lives in Port Worth? Okay,

26:14

do you think that maybe let me as see this Texan?

26:17

Yeah? What what? What?

26:19

How do you feel about? Like? Um? The difference

26:21

between like the regions? I mean, are

26:23

people moren't likely to encounter like

26:26

gin or have these kind of experiences in a place like New York

26:28

or a place like where you are now, which is remote and

26:30

wild and and

26:32

feels a little hoty definitely

26:38

a little Um. I think that

26:41

people would more likely experience it in the

26:44

Arab and Indian regions,

26:46

to be honest, because that's the home of

26:49

these stories. Um. Do

26:51

I think I could feel something here? Yeah? Listen,

26:54

it's a Dumas beard. There's

26:56

like I don't

26:58

and unfortunately I don't know

27:00

if it's just a marketing gammick for tourism

27:03

or if it's real. Um. But there's

27:05

the vortexes here, which are energy war taxes

27:08

and so in the Red Rocks, and so

27:10

you go there and you're supposed to feel things.

27:12

Um, and there's just a high

27:15

confluence of spiritual

27:18

things here in theory. Um

27:21

have you have you experienced? And

27:24

yeah, not the vor

27:26

text itself, but sometimes like in our

27:29

host as you know, it feels good, good vibes

27:31

whatever. Like I'm not scared of my house. I'm

27:33

more scared of you know. Um

27:36

like that movie The Strangers when you're out in the middle

27:38

of nowhere and then there's crazy people outside

27:40

that scares me more than like ghosts.

27:43

But like I'll be washing dishes and all of a

27:45

sudden, you know, right next to me, I'll hear someone

27:47

speaking Spanish and then it's gone, and it's

27:49

almost like it's like just passing through. And

27:52

that might have been when you follow me, because I believe

27:55

about that. I was like, this is this is happening.

27:57

It's really strange, but it wasn't

27:59

scary the same times, you know, you know what I

28:01

mean. So it's it's almost

28:03

like this whole area is just kind of funky

28:06

that way. Okay, maybe

28:08

it's a like a little a portal, right,

28:11

like where certain worlds

28:13

can be. I mean, I'm not

28:15

the Yeah, and there's something I

28:17

mean, every time I try to google it, I get some

28:20

weird websites

28:22

talking about Leylands, and I don't know any of that

28:24

stuff. You know, maybe I

28:27

have no idea. My I honestly

28:29

cannot say one way or the other. Um,

28:31

do I think people here

28:34

might be a little sensitive to things? Yeah? Sure,

28:37

you know, maybe they flocked here for that reason,

28:39

right, because they're seeking something. You're already predisposed

28:42

to something, right, Yeah,

28:44

let me ask you this exactly? Can you

28:47

can you share with us maybe one of the I

28:49

mean, I would think as a four year old, it's a

28:51

little frightening to have your father say, oh, no

28:53

worries, I'm an exorcist. But

28:55

but were there any other stories your father

28:58

told you or or drop little hants

29:00

or bombs are just kind of surprised you with that

29:03

really really freak you out? Yeah?

29:08

There, Well, his his mother seeing day

29:10

people freaked me out. But um,

29:13

the men in the family were the exorcists and the

29:15

women were palm readers. And as

29:17

you know, you're not supposed to read fortunes.

29:20

Um in Islam could

29:22

do it, and so yes,

29:25

um, and so I remember it

29:28

was it was my stepgrandmother. Um.

29:30

She would read my palm

29:32

um a lot, which always

29:35

unnerked me. But then I started

29:37

being able to do it, and I

29:40

had this knack and I

29:42

kind of call it my kids in the Hall sketch

29:45

talent, and that I can read someone's

29:48

palm and know their entire past

29:51

and I can pinpoint things

29:53

that happened to them that there's no way I should

29:55

have known that, but it's it's like it's on your

29:57

hands. Um So, my dad

29:59

was really excited when I started, you know, learning

30:02

palmistry and like getting it. I don't. I

30:04

don't do it often anymore because honestly,

30:06

it's it's really entiring and I don't

30:08

really want to know that much about people. Um

30:12

So, it's actually it actually like his

30:14

emotionally draining for you or physically draining

30:16

for you. Yeah, oh yeah,

30:18

I get I can do like one and then

30:21

you know, I got a lot down. Um

30:23

But my dad and I always wondered if

30:26

it was just him. He used to tell us this lullaby

30:29

about this woman who

30:32

had ten thousand needles in her eye,

30:35

and that was, you know, our bedtime

30:37

stories. And to

30:40

this day, I'm like, you're

30:42

gonna come from Like I ordered a book of Punjabi

30:44

folk tales trying to find this story

30:47

because I and he doesn't quite remember

30:49

where it's from. He's like, oh, it's just a thing, you

30:51

know, we all know these songs.

30:54

Wait, do you remember do you remember

30:56

the song? Do you remember it? Allowing

31:00

now? Was her name was dol football

31:03

Um, which is you know football

31:05

means and on your father's side, and

31:08

and she was like pained

31:10

or something, and then there were needles

31:13

in her eyes. And this was supposed to

31:15

make me go to sleep. I'm

31:19

so sorry. No, I

31:21

never had I never had a chance to be

31:23

normal. I'm sorry you

31:26

have to find this lullaby. I've never

31:29

heard this. But to be fair, my

31:31

parents were like, go to sleep. You don't get lullabies

31:34

or but good night books or whatever, just go to bed.

31:36

And we didn't get any of that. So yeah,

31:38

we got those. And then on the flip

31:40

side, my mother would be like seeing a super colma,

31:43

which I said to you, I had, I forgot what it

31:45

was. And it's it's not a secret, it's just

31:48

you know, a verse in the Koran. But

31:50

my my mother's family called it the secret. And

31:53

you have to you know, clap three times

31:55

and footmar which is which is like kind

31:58

of blowing wind out three

32:00

fines to keep the bad

32:02

juju away, So she would

32:04

make us do that often, especially

32:07

after my my dad would tell a story.

32:09

Oh my gosh, she had to ward off the evil.

32:12

But he was like bringing bringing in um.

32:15

Okay, if you ever, if you ever figure out what

32:17

that lullaby was, I have to hear

32:20

it, because I just have to hear

32:22

it. Um. So let

32:24

you never record him singing it. If he remembers,

32:26

Oh wow, what was on somebody else

32:29

in the family. You think your siblings might

32:31

remember how how the tune went or

32:33

anything. No, my

32:35

sister, My sister remembers it was just really

32:38

bizarre, okay, And we

32:40

were like, why would you why would

32:42

you say this? Two kids? So

32:46

if you don't remember the

32:48

way it went, so I'm gonna

32:50

let me ask you this. Did you have you

32:52

ever are yourself You seem

32:54

like you're really open to the to

32:56

the not open to the idea that you believe,

32:58

you believe in gin, that they there

33:01

are a gin that are connected, that their gin that

33:03

are connected to your family, and that you are

33:05

open to being like receiving them in

33:07

some way or or you're not scared of them. So

33:09

have you ever actually actively tried to

33:11

connect with them?

33:16

Because I would not know what I'm doing.

33:18

I don't know what I'm doing. I

33:20

feel like I one I

33:22

haven't found, Um, I find

33:24

out a Western text, you know, like why

33:27

white writers and how to how to conjure

33:29

them? That's that's not

33:31

what I want. Um. I think

33:34

for me, I would have want somebody from

33:36

our culture who knows how to do it. But

33:39

I'm also not the most

33:41

religious person, and I feel like jin

33:44

are so connected to our religion, even

33:47

but even though some books I'm reading that they predate

33:49

the religion, that they become part of the religion.

33:51

So I feel like in order to summon

33:54

them or conjure or whatever you want to call it, I

33:56

feel like you have to have that religious component

33:59

a little bit. Is that only so you

34:02

so you feel more protected? Like? Is that why?

34:06

I think? It's also so I don't screw

34:08

something up, you know, Like

34:11

I just I just don't think that I have that

34:13

talent and to be perfectly honest, um,

34:16

But I do feel like there's more I

34:18

don't. My philosophy on all the

34:20

spiritual stuff is that there are things that we

34:22

can't explain and maybe one

34:25

day we'll all have it figured out,

34:27

you know, and and science will be like, yes, this

34:29

is weird dimensional stuff whatever. UM,

34:32

But you know, I've had experiences with ghosts

34:34

and I've had experiences with with UM.

34:36

This is when it sounds crazy. There was a

34:38

demon in my old apartment building, and

34:42

I cannot believe. I cannot

34:44

believe you're bringing up I can't believe you're bringing

34:46

up the demon in your apartment building. This late into the conversation,

34:49

but let's hear the story. Well,

34:52

first of all, I've totally I've totally tweeted

34:54

this story. So I lived, you know, on

34:56

Upper East Side eighty nine. And first the

34:58

apartment was great, was like a studio, but the

35:01

closet was in the middle, so it was kind of separated the

35:03

bed from rest. And

35:05

I sleepwalk, granted, but I

35:08

mean I sleepwalk a couple of

35:10

times a year now, it's not like a

35:12

weekly thing. I was sleepwalking

35:14

every single night. Every night I would wake

35:16

up either opening my closet trying

35:18

to find something that shouldn't be there, or

35:21

standing in the living room living area being like, something's

35:23

here, it shouldn't be here. I did every

35:25

single night for like weeks, and

35:28

I made a joke some friends, I have a closet

35:30

monster. And my dog

35:33

started. Um, she started

35:35

pinning her ears back at night and staring

35:37

at things on the wall that weren't there,

35:39

like there was no bug, there was nothing, and

35:42

I'm just like watching her and

35:44

I got so freaked out I had to put a blanket over her

35:46

house. She would and

35:48

she would do this every single day.

35:51

And so now back to the whole fashion

35:53

world things. This isn't while I was still in fashion. This

35:55

is one of the those healers

35:57

that I would go to dinner with with PR people.

36:00

He called me out of the blue one day at you

36:02

know, I'm at work. My phone rings my cellphone

36:05

and he says, I don't know if you remember me. We

36:07

went to dinner with this PR person

36:09

six months ago. My spirit guides

36:11

are telling me I have to get into your apartment. There's

36:13

something there. And I dropped

36:16

my phone. I was like, all right, I'm done.

36:18

Like what So

36:20

he came over and um,

36:23

he was like, I

36:25

can't even explain what he did. He does like energetic

36:28

feng shway, and honestly, I don't know what

36:30

that is. I don't know how it applies beyond

36:32

regular peng shway. Um,

36:34

but he was like, okay, there's

36:37

something this apartment, but it's

36:39

coming from another person, and

36:42

it's coming, um three year bathroom,

36:45

And I kind of lost my mind because

36:47

the night before he came, I had this dream that

36:50

if I went into the bathroom and left the lights off,

36:52

it took a picture in the mirror with a flash on

36:54

my camera on my phone, I would

36:56

see whatever I wanted to what it

36:59

was behind me. And I didn't

37:01

do that in real life. I didn't wake up and do it. I thought

37:03

no. So when he said it's coming in from the bathroom,

37:06

I was like, Okay, maybe he's right. So

37:08

he does all these weird things. Um, you

37:10

know, like he was using commusiology,

37:13

which is so bizarre, Like he would ask you a

37:15

question and the way he your arm

37:17

would move with him would

37:19

be yes or no, you were you're incapable

37:22

of lying. It's the honestly, it's the most

37:24

bizarre thing I've ever experienced. So after

37:26

he was done, and you know, everything felt a little bit lighter

37:28

in the house an apartment, he said,

37:30

wait, there's a message from your from your your dead

37:32

mother here And I was like all right,

37:35

and he's like it's on your bookshelf. Now

37:38

my books. I'm I'm not an organized

37:40

person. They're like half hazard. They're not color

37:42

coordinated or anything, right, They're

37:44

just piled up. And so he would

37:46

use my arms, like gets on this shelf,

37:49

yes or no, and so I like raising my arm

37:51

yes or no. He could tell by the resistance

37:53

which where it was. And he found this

37:55

book and it's a Camle book. I don't elber

37:57

Kamer coming. I don't remember reading.

38:01

I know I did back in from college. And

38:04

he finds the page using my arms at

38:06

this page or it's an after this page and whatever,

38:08

and he finds the line and he looks

38:11

at me and he says, I'm sorry, but this is what you're

38:13

supposed to say. And the line said,

38:15

yes, it would be a pleasure to see my mother

38:17

again. And I was just

38:19

like, I don't

38:22

know how he did that. I

38:25

just I don't. I can't. I have no logical

38:28

explanation for that, because

38:30

there's just no way. There's absolutely

38:32

like, there's no way he could say, oh, yeah, it's not that spine.

38:35

I know there's a line in there, you know, I guess.

38:37

But it was so randad

38:40

and it wasn't even like the plague

38:42

or the strangers. It was a more obscure one

38:44

that people don't know. So it was

38:46

really a strange experience

38:49

for me because I just

38:53

I knew something was around me that

38:56

wasn't good and that

38:58

my mom sometimes popped. I would say, Hi,

39:01

it's like dd um, yeah,

39:04

I've had to become more open. I

39:07

was gonna ask that, how did you know it was a demon?

39:09

Only because like you're in your because

39:11

you had a sense of dread, or because this guy told

39:13

you it was Yeah,

39:16

I had a sense of dread. And then when he looked

39:19

at me, he said the way he's like, the way I'm

39:21

seeing this is um is

39:24

uh? I think it was dark

39:27

angle arch angel Michael

39:29

babbling a demon. It was like, so that's

39:31

the vision I'm seeing that. It's because

39:33

I was like, please be a ghosts, please be a ghost. It's

39:36

easy to get rid of ghosts, but you know, I saw

39:38

my exorcist. I know how hard it is to get rid of

39:40

the big d's, so it's like, please

39:42

don't say the D word. And then he said

39:44

it. I was like, okay, okay,

39:47

but it wasn't. It was attached to somebody else in

39:49

my building, So you know, I totally moved.

39:53

I was like Nope, nope, we're done. I don't need

39:55

to stay in as an art building. There's some weird

39:57

juju here. I don't I don't know what it is. I

39:59

don't want to, but I'm out, and

40:01

so I moved away and it's

40:04

much better. Wow,

40:07

talking that, I gotta go back

40:09

and find that Twitter threat about that. I totally

40:11

missed that. I don't think I saw that at all, But that is

40:14

um, that's that's yeah,

40:17

that's not it to me. Well, it's actually

40:19

it was weird. It's one of those things where you're

40:21

like, am I going crazy? You know? And somebody

40:25

else you know.

40:27

I'm pretty sure. I don't

40:29

think I've met anybody in my life who hasn't

40:31

had some experience that

40:33

they cannot explain, something

40:35

like a like a dream that was a premonition,

40:38

or just something like everybody has something,

40:40

right, So I think it's you have

40:42

to be like an incredibly weirdly arrogant

40:45

person to think I know everything there is to

40:47

know there's nothing there that we don't know, Like

40:49

sciences discovered everything, and human beings can see

40:51

and hear everything. I don't know anybody

40:54

who actually believes that, even the biggest skeptics

40:56

are like, well, I mean, look, you don't know which happens

40:58

after you die, so there's always an unknown, right,

41:00

there's always the end. Yeah

41:03

yeah, yeah, Well, like I said,

41:05

maybe an hundred years, science will

41:07

will figure out it's a dimensional thing. I don't

41:09

know. I have no idea, but right look,

41:11

science tell has told us that there are dimensions.

41:14

We know there's different dimensions. And just recently

41:17

did you see that the report that came out

41:19

of like the Pentagon where they were like navy

41:21

air like navy uh

41:24

pilots. That confirms he Look,

41:27

there is something out there, and that's why I'm talking to

41:29

you. That's why we're doing the show. Here's something

41:32

we are. The universe

41:34

is vast. We don't know what's out there

41:36

like or

41:39

or what's in our closet and under our beds.

41:41

It's it's your arrogance. Yeah

41:45

all right, well I should thank you so much. I'm gonna

41:47

wrap up here, but I want um,

41:49

I want folks to know how they can find

41:51

you online if they want to continue to follow

41:53

your your your adventures

41:55

in Sedona and also your drinks. Yeah,

42:00

once you handle I'm on Twitter. Uh

42:03

drama d r R drama.

42:05

That's three rs D R R R

42:07

A M I N A has been little

42:10

dramatic. Um,

42:12

I will always I'm always happy to talk about this weird

42:15

stuff, you know, because, uh,

42:17

you know, I'm not going to judge somebody else for believing

42:19

in it. And that's one of the things that I want

42:21

to include in the second

42:23

book is I, if you love crystals,

42:27

that's amazing. I personally

42:29

don't. They're pretty. I don't feel anything with them.

42:31

But I'm not gonna did

42:33

I lose you? Sorry, I'm not gonna make fun

42:36

of anybody for having a belief

42:38

like that, you know. Um.

42:40

So to me, like I, I love tarot cards

42:43

because they are

42:45

weirdly, my

42:48

chick. I have a terrat deck that I use and they're um

42:50

and even my friends and my sister are like this.

42:53

These are ridiculously apt and kind

42:55

of really almost have a sense of humor

42:57

about situations. And

43:00

so the more I've used them, the more I'm like, ah,

43:02

this is getting weird, you

43:05

know. So like the whole COVID, Like

43:07

I predicted somebody having COVID in our

43:09

family and I didn't, you know, realize

43:12

what it was until after and my sister

43:14

mentioned it to me, and I was like, oh my god, well,

43:16

you're right. I thought it was gonna be somebody else and that

43:19

you know, it ended up being this one person

43:21

in our family. So there's there are things

43:23

that have come true that I'm like, No,

43:25

that's weird. You know, what are you gonna do?

43:28

I think I'm gonna that that you

43:30

the veil for some people

43:32

as thinner, and the veil for you as thinner between

43:35

between what we can see and what we can't see.

43:37

And I have a feeling and I'm gonna be actually really

43:39

interested to see continue to talk to me about

43:41

this um offline and about

43:44

like as you continue to research a jin stuff

43:46

because you know, I'm neck deep, man, I'm I'm

43:48

neck deep in that stuff, every rabbit hole you

43:50

can believe. So I think it's gonna be

43:52

a fun journey for you. I love the gym stuff.

43:55

Yeah, And I think as long as we approach it without

43:58

fear and just more of like I want to learn,

44:01

I think that's the right approach. Thanks

44:04

for joining us this week. You can find out more about

44:07

Amina's work, her amazing book, Fashion

44:09

Victim, and everything else she's working on

44:11

by going to her website. It's Amina

44:13

After That's spelled a M I

44:16

N A A k h

44:18

t A R dot work, and like

44:20

she said, you can follow her on Twitter. Her

44:22

handle is at D three

44:25

rs d r r R and then her first

44:27

name, Amina d r r R Amina

44:29

Drameda. Love it. I

44:34

hope you enjoyed that conversation as

44:36

much as I did. Now there are

44:38

as many people in the world with jin stories

44:41

as there are gin, so if you

44:43

have one you'd like to share, make sure to email

44:46

it to me at the Hidden Gin at

44:48

gmail dot com. That's the

44:50

Hidden Gin. Th h E H I

44:52

D d N d j I

44:55

n n at gmail dot com.

44:57

And until next time, remember we

45:00

are not alone. The

45:07

Hidden Gin is a production of I Heart

45:10

Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron

45:12

Mankey. The podcast is written

45:14

and hosted by Robbiah Chaudry and

45:16

produced by Miranda Hawkins and Trevor

45:18

Young, with executive producers

45:21

Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams, and

45:23

Matt Frederick. Our theme song

45:25

was created by Patrick Quartetz. For

45:28

more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit

45:30

the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

45:34

or wherever you get your podcasts.