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Unlimited slows. It's

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dusk, 5th December 1647, in the

0:36

Palace of Westminster outside the Houses of

0:38

Parliament, and a

0:40

pretty wet and miserable one at that.

0:44

Now, it was the job of

0:46

the London-trained bands to keep things

0:48

orderly around Westminster and keep out

0:50

undesirables. A wit like Henry

0:53

Martin might have suggested that would have

0:55

meant most of the MPs, but look,

0:57

Henry Martin wasn't about that evening. The

0:59

MPs had suffered a late-night session the

1:02

previous one, so few people were around

1:04

as the new City Watch turned up

1:06

to take up evening duty. When

1:09

they arrived, though, rather than

1:11

the expected trained band of militiamen

1:13

waiting to be relieved, they found

1:15

redcoats in their place, the redcoats

1:17

of the new model army. Now,

1:21

the trained bandsmen were a bit uncertain about

1:23

what to do. I mean, the

1:25

soldiers did their best to make everything light-hearted,

1:28

telling them that, look, they could take the evening off

1:30

and leave everything up to them. But this

1:33

definitely wasn't right. This was their

1:35

place, the trained bands. What these

1:37

soldiers doing here? They

1:40

considered kicking up a fuss. With

1:43

impeccable timing, their

1:45

commander appeared out of the growing

1:47

gloom, Philip Skippon. He

1:50

was respected and admired by pretty

1:52

much all the trained bands and

1:54

the new model too. Because

1:56

there wasn't much he hadn't seen or done.

2:00

the forefront of countless conflicts for

2:02

Parliament, and the ceramic of

2:04

his reputation had been fired under fire,

2:06

if you see what I mean. With

2:10

a cheerful smile, Skippen reassured his bandsman

2:12

that always as it should be, good

2:14

humour was restored, there was a bit

2:16

of a laugh and a joke, and

2:19

oft-the-trained bandsmans went for an unexpected night

2:21

in. So

2:23

it was that in the morning of 6th

2:26

December, as the MPs arrived at the chapel

2:28

of St Stephen to take up their places

2:30

in the House of Commons, everything

2:32

seemed a little different. The

2:35

presence of the redcoats was

2:37

deeply unsettling. The

2:39

new model army frightened quite a few of

2:41

the MPs who just the day before had

2:43

defied them by agreeing the Treaty of Newport

2:46

with the King, and they

2:48

wanted those soldiers permanently gone. But

2:51

also at the top of the stairs,

2:54

just inside the chapel, stood a well-known

2:56

Colonel of the Army, Thomas Pride, an

2:58

ex-Dreyman and a military stalwart who had

3:01

helped turn the tide against the Royal

3:03

Infantry at Naysby. And

3:05

beside him stood one of the

3:08

very few remaining revolutionary aristocrats, Lord

3:10

Grey of Grubie, rather unkindly referred

3:12

to by one as the Grinning

3:15

Dwarf. Grubie

3:17

was holding a list of names,

3:20

and as the first MP approached, Grey

3:22

was heard to mutter to the Colonel, this

3:25

is the person. And Colonel

3:27

Pride removed his hat and stepped forward. Ever

3:30

so politely, he instructed two soldiers

3:32

to accompany the MP, not into

3:34

the chapel, but into hell.

3:53

Now then, gentlemen and

3:57

gentlemen. few

4:00

episodes ago, episode 403 I

4:02

believe, Eric, Rachel and Rowena of this

4:05

very parish were kind enough to educate

4:07

me and tell me

4:09

that in that episode I had

4:11

executed something called a cold open.

4:15

I did not know it was a thing and

4:17

so excited that it's got a name, here I

4:19

have tried it again. You

4:21

will be wondering what is going on

4:24

with Colonel Thomas Pride and

4:26

to explain I probably need to

4:28

go back 48 hours and take

4:30

you to desperate meetings held in

4:33

lodgings all over Whitehall where Henry

4:35

Iotan was struggling to decide how

4:37

to react to the defiance of

4:39

Parliament in accepting the heinous Treaty

4:41

of Newport. As

4:44

you might remember from the last episode the

4:46

army had decided enough was enough they would

4:48

no longer give this King any part of

4:50

a pineapple let alone the rough end. Under

4:54

Iotan's leadership they, the levelers,

4:57

the radical MPs had

4:59

produced together the remonstrants of the

5:01

army and they had placed it

5:03

reverently in Parliament's hands, filled

5:06

Westminster with their redcoats and

5:09

waited for Hollison Co to take the hint

5:11

and kick the Newport Treaty into touch. Parliament

5:15

had done no

5:17

such thing. Iotan

5:19

Fairfax and Cromwell probably hoped that Parliament

5:21

would have seen sense and reformed themselves.

5:23

They even hoped they might purge themselves

5:26

of the most recalcitrant members which does

5:28

seem a little bit optimistic if so.

5:31

Fairfax in particular but also Cromwell were

5:34

very reluctant to raise their hands

5:36

against Parliament. The

5:39

trouble is of course that for representative politics

5:41

you need to be able to accept

5:43

the decisions that go against you that is

5:46

after all the very basis of democracy. Not

5:48

that even Iotan believed in democracy but

5:50

you know what I mean. Sadly

5:53

none of the grandees felt themselves in

5:55

a position to accept Parliament's decision to

5:57

let the King have such a favourable

6:00

treaty after everything that had gone

6:02

before. In practical political

6:04

terms they were pretty confident the army

6:07

itself would riot anyway. In

6:09

religious terms they believed that it

6:11

would be a sin to deny the

6:13

sign of God's providence which had been

6:15

witnessed against the king in battle and

6:18

independent preachers were thunderously quoting the

6:20

Old Testament in support of that

6:23

view that the king must accept

6:25

the judgment of heaven. The

6:27

lawyer John Cook indeed had written on

6:30

this very subject in a tract called

6:32

monarchy no creature of God's

6:34

making riffing on

6:36

quotations like the one from

6:39

Hosea 8-4. They

6:41

set up kings but not by

6:43

me they made princes but I

6:45

did not acknowledge them. As

6:48

Geoffrey Robertson observed radicalism

6:50

did not necessarily come from the

6:53

pagan ancients the likes of Cicero

6:55

but from the Bible. The

6:58

grandees by this stage firmly believed

7:01

that the army was actually more

7:03

representative of the people than was

7:05

Parliament but nonetheless they

7:07

hesitated to intervene but

7:09

it had become obvious that the commas

7:12

would not yield to the army's point

7:14

of view. So late at night Iotan

7:16

consulted with army officers like Ludlow and

7:19

Harrison and MPs like

7:21

Gray and Martin. Iotan

7:23

favoured complete dissolution storm into

7:25

the house send the whole

7:27

rotten lock packing hold fresh

7:29

elections but the MPs

7:32

they argued against it. It

7:34

would look simply too outrageous they thought

7:37

better do for the Commons what they

7:39

should have done themselves purge

7:41

it to the folks with the wrong sort

7:43

of opinions. Hence

7:46

the presence of pride and gray on

7:48

the steps of St. Stephens along

7:50

with a regiment of soldiers to make sure

7:52

that the likes of Denzel Hollis and William

7:54

Prynne didn't reach their seats. Some

7:57

were hauled off to hell. Hell I should

7:59

point out. What was the irreverent name

8:01

given to one of the taverns in

8:03

Palace Yard? You may remember I mentioned

8:05

the two competing taverns, Heaven and Hell,

8:07

some time ago. Many

8:10

MPs were just sent home, but the

8:12

worst offenders against the right opinion were

8:14

arrested and pushed and shoved into the

8:16

basement of Hell. At

8:18

one stage they were promised they'd be moved

8:20

to a more comfortable Wallingford house, but

8:23

that never happened, so they had to spend

8:25

the night down there. He spent quite

8:27

a lot of time apparently passing hankies to

8:29

Robert Harley, who had a streaming cold. So,

8:33

Thomas could take pride in the quality

8:35

of his work, half. Pride's

8:38

purge carried on at least until the

8:40

12th of December for a week, with

8:42

Thomas and his clipboard asking this question.

8:44

Crucifixion? Good. Down

8:47

the corridor, first on the left, one

8:49

cross each. By

8:52

the end of it all, about 45

8:54

MPs had actually been arrested, without charge

8:56

I might note, and as

8:58

many as 185 had been sent home and excluded. Some

9:04

wag of course, as the English too,

9:06

turned his thoughts to bottoms and

9:08

dubbed the remainder the Rump Parliament.

9:11

It is a name that will stick. It

9:14

was not just the Presbyterians who recognised

9:17

this act of violence as a breach

9:19

of parliamentary privilege, far worse than Charles'

9:21

attempt to arrest five members. Attitudes

9:24

would vary towards it, but it's interesting

9:27

to look at the reaction to Pride's

9:29

purge from some of those independents who

9:31

have so far in our story played

9:34

such a leading revolutionary role. Harry

9:37

Vane, Arthur Hasselrigg, Oliver

9:40

Sinjan and Viscount Sé and

9:42

Seale were appalled at the breach

9:44

of parliamentary privilege. They

9:46

considered that they were now forced to

9:48

choose between a parliamentary tyranny

9:51

and a military tyranny, and

9:53

all of them would oppose the very

9:56

idea of king-killing when that came to

9:58

call. So I

10:00

believe... one leavener, Thomas Paine, called

10:02

this lot together the Silken Independence.

10:05

So they all left. They

10:07

refused to take part in this new

10:10

rump. Later in

10:12

1649 many would actually return.

10:15

Say and seal. He was done with

10:17

all of this though. At some point

10:20

I believe he ended up on a three

10:22

mile outcrop of granite called Lundy Island in

10:24

the Bristol Channel and he lived there along

10:26

with puffins and Manke Shearwaters. I

10:29

feel quite emotional. Old subtlety

10:31

now finally leaves our story.

10:34

The man whom Clarendon angrily

10:36

wrote was, The pilot that

10:38

steered all those vessels which

10:40

were freighted with sedition to

10:42

destroy the government. So

10:46

the rump for the next couple of months would constitute

10:48

maybe 70 members in the Commons.

10:51

William Lentor, the Speaker, would be one of them,

10:53

but this was a far cry from the 471

10:55

who were supposed

10:58

to be there. The number

11:00

of lords, meanwhile, rarely

11:02

rose above single figures. The

11:06

rump then is a revolutionary

11:08

and radical body. Over

11:11

time people will return. So through 1649

11:13

something like 200 MPs will return and

11:17

reconcile themselves to the new order. Vane,

11:20

St. John, Hasselrigg, they will all be

11:22

in this category. Cromwell

11:26

arrived back from Yorkshire and Pontifract just a tad

11:28

late to see Pride's Purge. He arrived back on

11:30

the 7th of December. He declared to Ludlow he'd

11:32

not known anything about the

11:37

plan of Pride's Purge, but

11:39

since it had happened he was glad of it and would

11:41

endeavour to maintain it. Fairfax,

11:45

meanwhile, must have known all about

11:47

the Purge. Iotan almost certainly told

11:49

him. But Thomas Fairfax seems terribly

11:51

torn, in all that follows, actually. He clearly

11:53

went along with Pride's Purge because he loved

11:56

his soldiers and was a very good man.

12:00

would always be on their side. He

12:02

is intimately involved as chair of many

12:04

of the Army councils and many of

12:06

the discussions that drove events, and as

12:09

such, a stream of MPs

12:11

and foreign dignitaries will beat a path

12:13

to his door, seeking his good offices.

12:17

But he has doubts about the revolution. His

12:19

heart is never quite in it, and

12:21

he distracts himself now by concentrating

12:24

instead on his first love. Making

12:27

sure the Army get what they need

12:29

and deserve in practical terms – things

12:31

like pay and billets. Throughout

12:34

December, in particular, Cromwell stirred might

12:36

and he stirred main to try

12:39

and get back as many moderates

12:41

as possible to take part in

12:43

the Rump Parliament, and so it

12:45

remained Ierten who drove the revolutionary

12:47

agenda. Cromwell made sure

12:49

most of those 45 members were

12:51

released from prison, which was of course only

12:54

reasonable given there were no proper charges. He

12:57

even sprang William Prynne, who was

12:59

an implacable opponent of the Army

13:01

and was spitting feathers. Famously,

13:04

Cromwell tried particularly hard to

13:06

get moderates like Bolstrode Whitlock

13:08

back on board, and he

13:10

met Whitlock in the Royal

13:13

Palace of Whitehall, lolling around

13:15

on a sumptuous royal bed

13:17

apparently, in what sounds rather

13:19

odd anecdote but has the

13:21

feeling of the ordinary people

13:23

suddenly inhabiting a world of

13:25

unimaginable sumptuousness, a bit like

13:27

the French storming the Versailles.

13:30

Whitlock was important because of his high

13:32

standing in the legal profession, if you

13:34

remember his role in the Strafford's trial.

13:38

But despite Cromwell's efforts, our

13:40

Bolstrode was way too canny to nail

13:42

his colours to any mast before it

13:44

had been firmly stepped into place. He

13:47

and other legal eagles knew full well that the

13:49

trial of a king was in the offing, and

13:51

they did not want to be part of that,

13:54

and they melted gently into the

13:56

countryside, took up the best possible

13:58

camouflage they could. and

14:00

kept their heads low. Whitlock

14:03

in particular goes back to Henley.

14:06

Trimmers like Bolstrode are not the kind of

14:08

people you need on your side if there

14:10

is hard, dirty work to be done. But

14:13

the point about all of this is

14:16

that Cromwell kept lines of communication open

14:18

with radicals and moderates to

14:20

help broaden political support

14:22

for any forthcoming Commonwealth.

14:26

Meanwhile though, London's head

14:28

exploded. Presbyterian ministers went bananas

14:30

condemning the purge and the

14:33

vanishing prospect of a national

14:35

Presbyterian Church. And the extremely

14:37

dodgy looking future of the

14:39

King, who let it be

14:41

remembered, was in theory at

14:43

least, core to the

14:45

solemn league and covenant. I mean Charles wouldn't

14:47

give a Tinkers curse for the solemn league

14:49

and covenant. He wouldn't give it a time

14:51

of day. But there was supposed

14:53

to be a covenanted king at the head of

14:56

all this. The king was

14:58

sacred. The

15:00

London Common Council was also dominated by

15:02

Presbyterians and by people noted for being

15:04

very careful with their money. And unless

15:07

the money's on board there's always going to be

15:09

trouble. But Philip

15:11

Skippon helped with that particular problem.

15:14

Despite himself being a Presbyterian, it

15:17

turned out to be something of

15:19

a rampaging revolutionary during 1648. So

15:22

being also an MP, he stood up in

15:24

the Commons of the Rump, looking

15:26

demurely as if he meant to say grace.

15:29

And he moved that no one in

15:31

favour of the Newport Treaty should be

15:33

eligible to stand for the London Common

15:35

Council. That

15:38

was passed and the result was

15:40

a landslide election for independence and

15:42

men like Isaac Pennington are back

15:44

in the driving street at London.

15:47

It was a various street move. London

15:50

was where it all happens. Throughout

15:52

the revolution controlling the environment there

15:54

is absolutely critical and the Common

15:57

Council was now broadly back on

15:59

board. And when Fairfax

16:01

quartered the army in London, they finally

16:03

paid up their missing tax assessment. What

16:07

no one could control though were

16:09

the Presbyterian ministers, nor the news

16:11

book, nor the pamphlets. News

16:14

books of all flavors went to

16:16

war across the political and religious

16:18

persuasions. March of

16:20

Needham at Pragmaticus, or the Prag as

16:22

it was called, still playing on

16:25

the King's team remember? He poured

16:27

out brilliant anti-army journalistic invective

16:29

and he was just having a

16:32

party, a hoot, I tell you,

16:34

like a pig in muck. Must

16:37

do a shedcast on our Needham. But

16:40

to set against that were the independent

16:42

ministers. In the

16:44

words of Ian Gentles, there was basically

16:46

a crescendo of sermons. And

16:49

just before we decide this is all

16:51

about London and nothing but the London,

16:53

petitions now start arriving en masse from

16:55

the provinces. Seriously, in the 17th century,

16:58

if a morning goes by and you haven't

17:00

sent off a petition, you're just not trying.

17:04

Over a hundred petitions come in from towns

17:07

all around England, praising the

17:09

army, urging members to

17:11

complete the Reformation and often calling

17:13

for justice on the King, often

17:17

calling for the execution of

17:19

the King. The

17:21

northern counties were particularly passionate

17:23

that the King must be held to

17:25

account, possibly because they

17:28

had suffered most from the plundering of

17:30

the Scots, but more generally they do

17:32

appear to be much more radical, so

17:34

10 members of the trial commissioners of

17:36

the King would be Yorkshiremen.

17:40

So the first job of the Rump

17:42

Parliament was to get the revolution back

17:45

on track. The

17:47

repeal of the vote of no address was

17:49

repealed, if you sort of get the

17:51

double negative, so mouths zipped, no

17:53

talking to the King. Then

17:56

it was on to the heady business of designing

17:58

the New World. I

22:01

got privately into the council of the

22:03

rebel army at Whitehall, but

22:05

Evelyn wrote that he heard nothing but

22:08

horrid villainies. There

22:10

he saw the people gather round and engage

22:12

in debate. In the centre

22:15

of the hall on the table he

22:17

saw the working copy of the agreement

22:19

of the people, a large scroll containing

22:21

this new device, and he listened

22:23

to the debates. Not

22:25

for Evelyn the subtleties of liberty of

22:27

conscience, not for Evelyn the honest struggle

22:29

to reach for a new future, a

22:32

better society. All he saw was raw,

22:35

young and ill-spoken men

22:38

and nothing but disorder and

22:40

irreverence. Basically it's

22:42

a kind of disgusted of Tumbridge well on

22:44

points of view type of thing, well disgusted

22:47

of Surrey in this case. His

22:49

diary then goes on to talk about some nice paintings

22:52

he'd brought. I mean what can he do with people

22:54

like that? The

22:57

atmosphere was alive with tension.

23:00

There were dark references to shipwreck,

23:02

dark references to the risk of

23:04

ruin that lay all around. But

23:07

through it all it was Henry Ioten

23:09

who drove the meeting forward. A speaker

23:11

followed speaker. He took on all comers.

23:14

It would infuriate John Lilburn. He

23:16

described Ioten as a tyrant. But

23:20

in reality he was simply infuriated

23:22

that Ioten was his equal in

23:24

conviction and in steliness of purpose.

23:27

Ioten in debate from the record

23:29

was almost always calm on top

23:31

of every question with impressive commander

23:34

all of the issues at debate. Obviously

23:38

I feel the temptation to go into fine detail

23:40

but must resist I think so just the

23:43

main points. Firstly from

23:45

the Whitehall Debates the draft

23:47

agreement was to be taken to an

23:49

army council and there it was to

23:52

be debated and amended again. Now this

23:54

got Lilburn proper blazing. He

23:56

thought the Whitehall Debates would be the end of

23:58

it all. and

26:00

the Civil War, there would

26:02

be equality before the law and

26:04

the legal profession would be separated

26:06

from intervention by Parliament. Parliament

26:09

also could not intervene when no

26:11

law had been broken. That's a big

26:13

defeat for Ioten there. He worried it

26:16

would prevent the trial of the king

26:18

to which he was utterly committed by

26:20

this stage but the principle held. For

26:24

the body of the Grim to the people then, there

26:27

would be fresh elections by April

26:29

1649. Royalists would be excluded

26:31

for seven years but then the slate would

26:33

be wiped clean so it was a kind

26:36

of delayed act of oblivion as it were.

26:39

Constituences were to be redrawn on

26:41

the principle of equal numbers of

26:43

people so not of tax revenue

26:45

as Ioten had wanted. But

26:48

the compromise reached that Putney would

26:51

be maintained so people dependent on

26:53

others like servants would not get

26:55

the vote. So essentially the franchise

26:57

is all householders which of course

27:00

does not therefore include women. So

27:03

the agreement of the people was a

27:05

radical extension of the franchise but universal

27:07

suffrage it ain't. Though

27:09

I was interested here mind you

27:11

that nor was universal suffrage implemented

27:13

in the American Revolution nor the

27:15

French. The 1792 Convention

27:18

claimed to be but like the

27:20

agreement of the people, I understand

27:22

it excluded domestic servants. You

27:24

are allowed to correct me on that one if you wish.

27:29

In summary, the agreement of

27:31

the people was a new balanced

27:33

workable constitution that bore in mind

27:35

not only reform but what would be

27:37

workable, what would be acceptable to a

27:40

wide enough number of people. It

27:43

was presented on the 20th January to

27:45

Parliament. They ordered it printed and they

27:47

promised to debate and enact it as

27:49

the necessity of affairs permit. As

27:53

it happens of course, the

27:55

necessity of affairs never did

27:58

permit. The immediate reason was

28:00

the affair we will now come to, the small

28:02

matter of what to do with that bloke freezing

28:04

his bottom off in Hurst Castle. Longer

28:07

term though, the agreement

28:09

to the people was probably just too

28:12

reasonable to survive, because it meant there

28:14

was no one, with the possible exception

28:16

of the junior officers, no

28:18

one who was passionate enough about

28:20

what was inevitably a compromise. It

28:23

was too radical for the traditionalists, it

28:25

was not radical enough for the levellers. So

28:28

there was no one with the power and passion

28:31

to pull it above the chaotic

28:33

hurly-burly that would accompany the birth

28:35

of a new commonwealth. Hey,

28:43

I'm Ryan Reynolds. Recently, I asked Mint

28:45

Mobile's legal team if big wireless companies

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inflation. They said yes. And then when

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I asked if raising prices technically violates

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those onerous two-year contracts, they said, what

28:56

the f*** are you talking about, you

28:58

insane Hollywood a*****e? So to recap, we're

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29:11

more than 40 gigabytes per month. Mint Unlimited slows. Which

29:16

brings us to the other big burning issue of the

29:18

moment. What should we do with

29:20

that bloke with the freezing bum in

29:23

Hurst Castle? The incorrigible, the irreconcilable, the

29:25

unscrupulous untrustworthy father

29:27

of the people, the

29:29

king. Should we talk about that maybe? Oh go

29:32

on then. It's

29:34

a confused affair all of this. I

29:36

doubt we can fully appreciate the doubts and

29:38

pressures on all sides about what to do

29:41

next. There were as many

29:43

different opinions as there were shells on the beach.

29:46

Also looking back into the

29:48

historical record is very difficult indeed

29:51

because the evidence is irremediably tainted

29:53

by the attempts of swathes of

29:55

people after the accession of Charles

29:57

II to distance That

36:00

was a question over which this war had been

36:02

fought. But from Charles's

36:04

viewpoint, at some point, there would be

36:06

a time when a deal could be

36:08

struck. It

36:11

is interesting that as late as the 21st

36:13

of December, Cromwell argued at

36:15

the Council of Officers that executing the

36:17

King would be a mistake. It would

36:19

merely render the Prince of Wales more

36:22

dangerous. And the Council voted

36:24

that if the King accepted Denver's

36:26

proposals, he should be spared. So

36:30

Charles might well not have been wide

36:32

of the mark that this was a

36:34

negotiation and a political process, and again

36:36

that he could hold out them all.

36:40

He may have known that Fairfax was almost

36:42

certainly strongly against the idea

36:44

of killing the King indeed, and Fairfax

36:46

was reported to have had a dream

36:49

of her holding her husband's

36:51

severed head. So Whitlock

36:54

reported after a visit to see the King of

36:56

Windsor on the 2nd of January 1649

36:59

that he found him cheerful and

37:02

took no notice of any proceedings against him

37:04

and to sayeth he doubts

37:07

not within six months to see peace

37:09

in England and in

37:11

case of not restoring to

37:13

be righted from Ireland, Denmark

37:15

and other places. This

37:19

is a remarkable quote. It shows

37:21

us that just a few days before his

37:23

trial, Charles was confident of

37:25

his approach that he could not be tried,

37:27

that if he was, no court could convict

37:29

him, and it shows he

37:32

would remain happy at all times and in

37:34

all places to wage a third civil war

37:36

on his people. Oh, a fourth civil war

37:39

and so on. Right,

37:42

back to Parliament then. The

37:44

committee appointed to work out what, where, who and

37:46

how and all that included leading

37:49

lights such as Henry Ierton, Henry

37:51

Martin and Philip Skippen and legal

37:54

experts Whitlock and Witterington before

37:56

they ended up Skippen town.

38:00

and indeed, half. Not

38:03

Cromwell, as it happens. The

38:05

reason they were here was, of course, that

38:07

they had decided there was no point in

38:09

negotiating any more, but even if an agreement

38:12

was reached, Charles would double cross them any

38:14

time on the basis they were just worthless

38:16

rebels. So, we might reflect

38:18

that they had some options,

38:21

and to be fair, they were tempting. Firstly,

38:24

an abdication. Cromwell, actually,

38:27

apparently favoured Henry Stuart, eight

38:29

years old, and therefore presumably

38:31

biddable, though in my experience,

38:33

eight-year-olds are not necessarily biddable,

38:35

though, to be fair, Henry

38:38

will in fact say to his dad

38:40

that he'd rather be torn in pieces.

38:42

And anyway, Charles would almost certainly choose

38:44

martyrdom before abdication, and was brave enough

38:47

to carry that through. So, then

38:49

there'd be a distributed succession,

38:51

etc, etc, and so, no

38:54

go. More attractive,

38:56

most surely, would have been to take

38:58

Charles for a pleasant afternoon walk along

39:00

the coast, let's say on, I don't

39:02

know, the cliffs of Dover, and

39:04

oops, so sorry he slipped, or

39:07

the livia approach, I'll cook

39:09

all your food, dear, to make sure

39:11

you get the very best, or

39:14

implement the Edward II, Henry VI

39:16

gambit, and pop Charles II on

39:18

the throne. That was,

39:20

after all, the way things were normally done

39:23

in Europe for those lovers of tradition, or

39:26

the rich of the second approach, lock him

39:28

away and carry on, though

39:30

everyone was painfully aware that Richard had

39:32

been a honeypot for plots, until

39:35

he unaccountably died because, oh, someone

39:37

forgot to feed him. Then

39:40

there was the military court-martial

39:42

approach. Charles was, after

39:45

all, a military commander. He could

39:47

have been shot, like Charles Lucas.

39:50

The convention was that everyone, including

39:52

princes, was subject to martial law,

39:55

according to Albertico Gentili, a prophet,

39:57

Oxford, on the principle that A

40:00

dead man renews no war. There'd

40:03

have been a bit of a fuss, obviously, but

40:05

it was quick, it was clean and look. There's

40:08

been a bit of a fuss anyway going on since 1638, so

40:10

whatever. But

40:13

the committee did not choose any of these

40:16

options. They were made of

40:18

sterner stuff. And despite the

40:20

fact no one had ever done it before,

40:23

they wanted this done right. As

40:25

C. V. Wedgwood writes, Those

40:28

who brought King Charles to trial

40:30

defended their actions on principles of

40:33

religion and patriotism and were

40:35

proud of what they did. The

40:38

trial would therefore be held in the

40:40

most public place possible, not

40:42

hidden away in some remote palace or

40:44

castle like Fothering Hay, as was for

40:46

Mary Queen of Scots. It

40:49

would be held in the home of common

40:51

law, the Holy of Holies, Westminster

40:53

Hall, and the doors would

40:55

be thrown open wide, open

40:57

to all. Clarendon

41:01

was, of course, thoroughly dismissive

41:03

of the whole affair, a

41:05

show trial as just another

41:07

way of king-killing. But

41:09

in his angry words, he had the right of it.

41:13

The English took their king to

41:15

trial precisely because, as Clarendon wrote,

41:18

it would be most for the

41:20

honour of the Parliament, and

41:23

teach all kings to know that

41:25

they were accountable and punishable for

41:27

the wickedness of their lives. Bang

41:30

on, Clarers, pal. Look

41:32

at the brain on that bloke. But

41:34

there's more. Let me

41:36

tell you a story I should leave to

41:39

later, and will endure in greater depth much

41:41

later, the trial of Thomas

41:43

Harrison on the Restoration. Famously,

41:46

he told the court, The

41:49

matter that hath been offered to you was not

41:51

a thing done in a corner. I

41:53

believe the sound of it hath been in most

41:56

nations. on

42:00

a quote from the Bible but I'm not

42:02

100% sure about that. But as Wedgwood pointed

42:04

out, this was not

42:06

an object of shame to the

42:08

revolutionaries but of pride. As

42:11

we have seen in multiple episodes in

42:14

this very podcast, the English respect for

42:16

common law was monumental, even despite the

42:18

shade cast in the Putney debates that

42:20

many actual laws represented the tyranny of

42:23

the powerful. The principle of

42:25

English law had always been openness,

42:28

public access, trial by peers,

42:30

all that sort of thing. So Mr

42:33

Hunt is quite wrong with his

42:35

kangaroo court thing, so sorry. As

42:37

we'll see, the revolutionaries would tie

42:39

themselves in knots trying to follow

42:42

the rules in an extra ordinary

42:44

situation for which there were no

42:46

rules and do so in the

42:48

glare of publicity. This would specifically

42:50

not be a kangaroo court. Of

42:53

course, whether or not it would be

42:55

a show trial, that is moot. I'm

42:58

not exactly sure what a show trial is but

43:00

I assume it's a bad thing, one where the

43:02

outcome is rigged. Whether

43:04

this is true is moot. Certainly

43:07

the army and radicals wanted this case to

43:10

be exemplary, they wanted the world

43:12

to see their evidence, they wanted everyone to see

43:14

they were right because that would allow the nation

43:16

to accept the result in a way that a

43:18

closed trial could never do. And certainly

43:21

they were utterly confident of their

43:24

case, utterly convinced Charles would

43:26

be found guilty because, I mean, he

43:28

was. But if

43:30

the unexpected happened, which demonstrably does happen

43:33

from time to time in English common

43:35

law, as John Lillburn himself would prove,

43:38

that would always be a risk. If that

43:40

happened, would it have been allowed? Would

43:42

it have passed? I cannot

43:44

be sure. I cannot suspect the

43:46

answer is yes, though surely Charles would never

43:49

again have had his freedom. But

43:51

I am sure many of you will

43:53

think otherwise, with much justification given stuff like

43:55

Pride's Purge that we've just heard about.

43:57

And in

43:59

An interesting interlude, by the way, would

44:01

be the long sessions this committee spent

44:04

with Elizabeth Poole. She

44:06

was a prophetess from Abingdon. She

44:08

had received visions and the committee wanted

44:11

to hear about them. They gathered in

44:13

a room, these revolutionaries, and earnestly and

44:15

anxiously asked her questions about what she

44:17

had seen, how did she interpret them,

44:20

should they put the king on trial, if

44:22

so, should the sentence be death? The

44:26

tradition of female prophetesses and visions was

44:28

long and her testimony

44:30

was taken seriously and she was

44:32

treated respectfully. She interpreted

44:34

her visions as telling her that yes, yes

44:37

the king should go on trial, but

44:40

no, they should not shed his blood. The

44:43

most illuminating question came from one

44:45

of the officers, a Colonel Rich.

44:48

He asked Elizabeth, what

44:50

if the king denied the right

44:52

of his subjects to try him

44:54

and so would not answer the

44:57

charges? Now Elizabeth

44:59

Poole didn't really understand the legal

45:01

niceties of that question, so didn't

45:03

answer, but the question is interesting,

45:05

the question is fascinating.

45:10

The basis of the king as the defence that

45:12

we'll hear about next week was

45:14

no surprise. It was foreseen, it

45:16

was understood, and there

45:19

will be an answer, but it will

45:21

also be deeply awkward. So,

45:24

the decision had been made that there would be

45:27

a trial according to the dictates of English law

45:29

in the open and with evidence. Now

45:31

the details needed to be worked out, but the

45:34

principle was established by Christmas Day 1648. Bolstrode

45:38

chose this very moment to leg it

45:40

as fast as its little leggies would

45:42

carry him, knowing that he would be

45:44

asked to lead the case and his

45:46

neck felt unaccountably itchy. On

45:49

the 26th, Charles turned down the

45:51

Dembe peace proposal, always assuming that

45:53

actually happened. On the

45:55

27th, in the parliamentary debate on

45:57

the decision to put the king on trial, Cromwell

46:00

seems to have changed his tune at

46:03

last and he gave a speech which

46:05

is often described as gnomic, Delphic, that

46:07

sort of thing, obscure. He

46:09

said this, If

46:11

any man whatsoever had carried

46:14

on this design of deposing

46:16

the king and disinheriting his

46:18

posterity, or had yet

46:20

any such design, he

46:22

would be the greatest traitor and rebel in

46:24

the world. But

46:26

since the providence of God hath

46:29

cast this upon us, I

46:32

cannot but submit to providence, though

46:35

I am not yet provided to give

46:37

you any advice. The

46:40

way I see it is that he's saying, look,

46:42

no one started this to rob the king of

46:44

his rights and if they did they were a

46:46

traitor and if that's their real reason for doing

46:49

this now then they are still nought but a

46:51

traitor. But events turned out as

46:53

they did, God gave his judgement

46:55

in battle and having done

46:57

so we must act accordingly. Even

47:00

so I'm not sure enough of my mind

47:02

to take that last awful step.

47:06

That's how I see it, don't shout at me.

47:10

But whatever, the journey had

47:12

started, the first single step had

47:14

been taken, now they must

47:16

work out the full journey. Which

47:20

we will come to next time when

47:22

the big moment finally arrives, the unprecedented

47:24

trial of a king. I

47:26

hope you will join me and follow me through all

47:28

the twists and turns. Meanwhile thank

47:30

you very much for listening, for all your

47:33

comments and questions. Don't

47:35

forget membership is a smorgasbord of

47:37

special shedcasts, ad-free listening

47:39

and is as cheap as

47:41

chips and available at thehistoryofengland.co.uk.

47:45

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