0:00

Welcome to the piked in Massacre, a production

0:02

of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios.

0:07

Four members of the Wagner family are in prison

0:09

awaiting death penalty trials for the murder

0:11

of eight members of the Rodent family.

0:13

Four suspects are Billy and Angela

0:16

Wagner and their sons George the Fourth

0:18

n j.

0:18

These four individuals are now in custody

0:21

for legilate committing this heartless,

0:23

ruthless, cold blooded murder.

0:27

Two others have been charged with helping to cover

0:29

up the grizzly crime.

0:30

Rita Joe Nukam and Fridrika Kirol

0:32

Wagner under house arrest connected to the killings

0:34

of eight members of the Rodent family. The judges

0:37

said bond at one hundred thousand dollars.

0:40

But while Ohio's largest murder investigation

0:42

brings the alleged killers to stand trial,

0:45

it also raises some unsettling questions

0:47

about the victims themselves.

0:49

There had been reports of scuffles

0:51

with other people in public. There

0:53

were indications that they were involved

0:55

in some drug deals and drug trade.

0:57

Law enforcement yet.

0:58

To say if the extensive Maria Wanna grow

1:00

operation they found is connected to the death.

1:03

And now two years after the arrests,

1:05

the residents of Pikes in Ohio are conflicted

1:07

about what really happened on the early morning

1:10

of April twenty second, twenty sixteen.

1:12

I think there's more to it, and I don't

1:15

know if we'll ever get the truth about it, to

1:17

be.

1:17

Honest with you, this

1:22

is the Pikeson Massacre, Episode

1:26

four Alternate Theories. In

1:34

the last episode, we examine the motive that

1:36

authorities believe lie at the center of the brutal

1:38

killings of eight members of the Rodent family,

1:41

a feud between Jake Wagner and Hannah Roden

1:43

over the custody of their two and a half year old

1:45

daughter, Sophia.

1:48

Though it is important to remember that the Wagners

1:50

are all innocent until proven guilty, there

1:52

is mounting evidence to support the custody

1:54

theory. Still, nearly two

1:56

years after the arrests, some residents

1:58

of Pikes in Ohio are conflicted about their

2:00

guilt.

2:01

You know, the BCI, you know, in

2:04

the state of Ohio, poor

2:06

County.

2:06

They're not really wanting to spend a lot of money on it.

2:09

Somebody did it, but it wasn't them. It just

2:11

doesn't make sense to me if they are innocent, because

2:13

who else would do that.

2:15

I wish we knew exactly what happened.

2:17

I know people kill people over custody,

2:20

but not that many people. I

2:23

think there's more to it. It's bigger

2:25

than what people think it is, and I

2:27

don't know if we'll ever get the truth about it. To

2:29

be honest with.

2:30

You, that's

2:36

exactly what we're going to explore in this episode.

2:39

I'm Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KAT

2:42

Studios. With Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff

2:44

Shane, we worked on a documentary about

2:46

the case back in twenty nineteen.

2:48

One thing the three of us know for sure is

2:50

that the Rodents did not deserve this by

2:52

all accounts, they were just a loving and caring

2:55

family, and their loss is felt

2:57

throughout the entire community. And that's really

2:59

why we want to bring not only them, but

3:01

the entire town of Piked injustice and

3:04

hopefully shed a light on the crime

3:06

and help bring everyone in some sense

3:08

of closure.

3:11

Following the Roden murders, it was two and a

3:13

half years before the Wagners were arrested.

3:16

In that time, many other plausible theories

3:18

were put forward, and there are those who believe

3:21

that some of them are credible possibilities.

3:23

When we began researching the story, we kept

3:26

hearing rumblings about two of the victims

3:28

we haven't discussed much yet,

3:30

the Rodent sons, Chris Junior and Frankie.

3:33

From all accounts, twenty year old Frankie was a

3:35

wonderful man. He was a devoted father

3:38

and excited about his upcoming marriage to his

3:40

fiance, Hannah Gilly. Chris

3:42

Junior was just a few years younger than Frankie.

3:45

Brittany, one of Chris Junior's oldest friends,

3:47

talked to Stephanie about her memories of him growing

3:50

up.

3:50

When did you and Chris Junior meet for the

3:52

first time?

3:53

How old were you? Guys?

3:55

We were young.

3:56

We were either in Kindergorton or first

3:58

grade.

3:58

And you were friends from that day forward.

4:01

Yes, we actually dated first

4:03

grade.

4:04

He was the love of my life.

4:06

What did the first grade version of you love

4:09

about him?

4:11

He's a little bad and that's

4:13

how he always was, like

4:15

he was the guy that he's like, I

4:17

know, I have it all like.

4:18

He was that type of boy growing

4:21

up.

4:22

One of the things that kept coming up when we talked

4:25

to people around town was the Rodent boy's love

4:27

of demolition Derby. Frankie

4:29

and Chris Junior were very passionate about demolition

4:32

Derby racing. They spent most

4:34

of their time building and rebuilding these cars

4:36

to race in Derby's all across Ohio. We

4:40

spoke to journalist Jeff Winkler, who spent some time

4:42

at Derby Races as part of his investigation

4:44

into the Rodent murders.

4:46

Demolition Derby is if

4:48

you've seen it on TV, it's it

4:50

looks like chaos, and a's to a degree

4:52

it is, but it's you know, rainming into people.

4:54

There's a lot of loud noises, and there's a lot of concrete

4:56

flying, and there's fires and smoke

4:59

and dirt and it's exciting and fun

5:01

and people who love it love it. The

5:03

Rodents were deeply involved

5:05

in demolition derbies in the area. They were very

5:07

much part of that culture. But demolition

5:10

derbies are really intense. You're smashing

5:12

each other, I mean, emotions get high.

5:15

Jeff told us about one Derby that Chris Junior

5:17

and Frankie participated in in May of twenty

5:20

fifteen that ends it in a bloody altercation.

5:22

Based on what's been reported in the court

5:24

documents, I think it's fair to say that Frankie

5:27

and Chris Junior, I mean, definitely

5:29

were hot heads and definitely

5:31

got into fights here and there.

5:34

They had an incident with a fella

5:37

named Tommy Gorman who

5:39

was a rival in the demolition

5:41

Derbies. They got

5:44

into a bit of a sort of heated match,

5:46

and there was a believe a sort

5:48

of incident on the track. They got upset with each other. It's

5:50

some bad blood and then

5:52

again it's you know, kind of picked

5:55

up speed with Facebook posts about sort

5:57

of consulting each other. And then of course Chris

6:00

Junior Frankie drove over to Gorman's

6:03

house and proceeded to really

6:06

beat on Gorman and his father,

6:09

and the fights and beatings

6:11

were only really broken up after the

6:13

grandfather came out and pumped

6:15

a few shotgun shells into the air.

6:20

According to reports, the Rodents showed up

6:22

with a dozen friends and proceeded to brutally

6:25

assault Tommy Junior and even knocked out

6:27

his father, Tommy Senior's front teeth in

6:30

the aftermath of the fight. Frankie was arrested

6:32

and sentenced to less than a year's probation for

6:34

the attack. Chris Junior was a juvenile

6:37

at the time of the attack, and no court records

6:39

are available that charges made against him.

6:43

Here's our producer Jeff Shane speaking to Jeff

6:45

Winkler.

6:46

And was Tommy and his family were they ever

6:48

looked at as suspects? Do you know, like, did the sheriff

6:50

ever interview them or see

6:52

if they were involved?

6:53

I mean, the press had talked to the

6:55

Gorman family after hearing about these fights, you know,

6:57

on Facebook, but as far as I know, the law

7:00

enforcement never really approached

7:02

them.

7:03

Well, the Gormans admitted to reporters that

7:05

there was some bad blood between them and the Rodent

7:07

family, it was not enough to retaliate

7:09

and certainly not enough to kill over. In

7:12

fact, the Gorman family were never suspects

7:14

in the investigation, but there were

7:16

more people to look into as

7:20

our investigation unfolded. So too to

7:23

the list of people who could have wanted payback

7:25

on the Rodents. Take Rusty Mongold,

7:27

another local kid who had gotten into an altercation

7:30

with Chris Junior just two weeks before

7:32

the Rodents were murdered.

7:33

Long Gold had posted on Facebook

7:35

that Chris Junior hit him with a car and

7:38

in his message, you know he uses

7:40

some pretty tough language. I mean, Rusty was

7:42

nineteen at the time, and you know he's talking about

7:44

I'm gonna break his fucking legs

7:46

and Curb stop his ass, and

7:49

I mean just sort of sort

7:51

of nineteen year old bluster. Really, the

7:53

Rusty Mongol thing happened just two weeks

7:56

before the murders,

7:58

so I mean, I think this was pretty

8:01

obvious that the investigators had to check

8:03

that out. And of course he got pulled over

8:05

and was detained and even

8:09

did a DNA sample, but it

8:11

was pretty clear that he had

8:13

nothing to do with it. But you know, that kind

8:15

of language is certainly going to grab the attention of

8:17

authorities, especially after

8:19

something like this.

8:23

With authorities finding no clear link between

8:25

Rusty Mongold, the Gorman family, and the

8:27

Rodent murders, the feeling around Python was

8:29

still ominous. No one knew who

8:31

could be responsible for the mass murder,

8:33

or even if the responsible parties lived next

8:35

door. Jeff

8:39

Winkler fills us in on yet another incident

8:41

that happened leading up to the murders.

8:43

According to court documents, on

8:45

February twenty fourth, and this was two

8:48

months before the murders, So two months before the murders

8:51

In late February, Chris Junior

8:53

was involved in a road rage incident with

8:56

a thirty three year old woman named

8:58

Rebecca Allen. Apparently, the court records,

9:00

Rebecca had slapped Chris Junior in

9:03

the face, and she also made threats against

9:05

him and his mother, Dana,

9:07

which were recorded on a cell phone.

9:12

Here's what we know about this. Dana Roden,

9:14

Chris Junior's mom, got involved as well, and

9:16

Rebecca Allen ultimately got two years

9:18

probation, forty hours of community

9:20

service, and a restraining order against contacting

9:23

Chris Junior and Dana Rodin. This

9:25

was on April twentieth, twenty sixteen, one

9:28

day before the murders took place.

9:32

There were definitely some scrapes, some

9:34

posting, and yeah, some social media

9:36

threats. But is that really motive enough

9:38

to murder eight people?

9:40

Of course not, But the timing of it is

9:42

interesting. You know, as we try to understand

9:44

what's happened, it's important to know everything

9:46

this family was going through up until

9:48

the murders, because we

9:51

don't know what's important until we know it's

9:53

important. But going back to Rebecca Allen

9:55

and the road ridge incident for just one second, Leonard

9:58

Manley Dana's father, who at this point point

10:00

was just trying to cope with the tragedy, was

10:02

quoted in the news as saying that Rebecca Allen

10:05

should be looked into with regards to the massacre.

10:08

Danner Roden's family. The Manleys,

10:10

were deeply entrenched in the roadens day

10:12

to day lives, and they were a key piece

10:14

of the investigation at first. Bobby Joe

10:16

Manley, for example, she's the one who

10:18

discovered their bodies and also made

10:21

that first nine to one one call.

10:23

Here's investigative reporter Jody Barr.

10:26

The days after this and I Am on

10:28

one calls were beginning to be

10:30

produced, so then you could get a picture of

10:32

what happened that morning that you know, a

10:34

family member went into the first home

10:37

and found the first two dead, Gary

10:40

and Chris.

10:41

Okay, okay, I need to get out of the house.

10:46

Did you drive over there?

10:47

That's again?

10:48

Okay?

10:48

What's your your name? My Bobby,

10:51

Bobby?

10:52

What's your brother?

10:53

Last name?

10:56

Yeah?

10:56

What's his name?

10:57

Chris Rode? And dad?

11:05

That was Bobby Joe Manley. You hear about

11:08

James Manley going over to Dana's house,

11:10

finding his sister, dad, his niece, and

11:12

nephew. So

11:15

you start getting

11:17

some more pieces to put together in this puzzle

11:19

and then you realize, well, wait a minute, why

11:21

were they there?

11:25

Police want to know that too.

11:27

We found out from Lynn Manley, that's Dana

11:29

Roden's father, James Manley's

11:32

father, that Bobby Joe and

11:34

James were both taken down

11:37

into the Pike County Sheriff's office and interrogated.

11:40

So from the outset, when you look at that

11:42

and you go, well, obviously they had

11:44

two people in mind. These were the two people who made

11:47

the initial fines of the bodies that

11:49

morning and made those nine on one calls. And

11:52

then we had gotten word that investigators

11:54

wanted to know who paid them

11:57

to murder their own family.

12:01

Over the next few weeks, Bobby Joe Manleys questioned

12:04

several times.

12:05

These people are not only being looked at his murder

12:07

suspects, They're going through the entire

12:10

process. They're being interrogated, they're

12:12

given polygraphs. I can tell

12:14

you I spoke with Bobby Joe Manley

12:16

on the porch of her father's home and

12:20

she told me that she was given three

12:22

polygraph tests and passed everyone.

12:27

As the suspicion surrounding Bobby Joe subsides.

12:29

Authorities began taking a closer look at James

12:32

Manley, and it's not too long before

12:34

they make a stunning discovery about who

12:36

he talked to on the night of the murders.

12:38

In the overnight hours at two

12:40

am. This would have been just, for all we know,

12:42

minutes before the murders two in the morning.

12:44

I mean the bodies were found at sun

12:47

up, but that at two in the morning, James

12:49

was texting with Jake Wagner. Jake

12:53

obviously now charged

12:56

in these murders. We

12:58

didn't know the context of those ten but

13:01

we do know that happened, and you know, it's

13:03

just strange suspicions. And

13:06

then James Manley took

13:09

a polygraph and failed that.

13:15

We're going to take a quick break here, we'll be

13:17

back in a moment. Here

13:29

again is Jodi Barr commenting on James

13:32

Manley's failed polygraph.

13:33

I don't know what to make of that. You know what that

13:36

means, failing a polygraph. I have no idea

13:38

because we don't know what questions were asked.

13:43

Without sufficient evidence to charge him, James

13:45

Manley is released, but police

13:47

continue to keep an eye on him.

13:49

Something to think about is that no arrests were made

13:51

after this questioning or the alleged polygraph

13:54

failure, So it's not like the police found

13:56

some sort of smoking gun that implicated

13:58

him in the crimes. Furthermore, are in the

14:00

state of Ohio, polygraphic examinations

14:02

are admitted under limited circumstances in

14:04

the court of law. In the state. Only

14:07

if all parties, including the defendant,

14:09

defense attorney, and the prosecutor agree

14:11

in advance to the admissibility of the results,

14:14

will the court be inclined to admit them.

14:16

Plus, it's really not uncommon for

14:18

immediate family members, particularly

14:20

those who have discovered bodies, to be

14:22

considered air quotes suspects at

14:24

first. It's just a natural place for

14:27

most investigations to begin. All that

14:29

said, I can only imagine how difficult that must

14:31

have been for the Manleies.

14:33

We found out later that it

14:35

was some respect a potential target

14:38

of the investigation because we

14:40

know that investigators put a GPS

14:42

device underneath James Manley's

14:45

pickup truck and for whatever

14:47

reasons, they felt a need to track him.

14:49

And then James Manly finds

14:52

that this GPS tracker attached

14:54

to the underside of his pickup truck, he

14:56

rips that off, and then he's

14:59

arrested for doing that.

15:04

This all happens in May of twenty seventeen,

15:06

three hundred and ninety days after James

15:08

Manley's sister and her family were murdered. He's

15:11

charged with two felonies, tampering with evidence

15:13

and vandalism, both counts for removing

15:16

the tracking device on his car.

15:18

I can remember, you know, getting that news

15:20

late late in the day and driving

15:22

straight to Ross County, Ohio, to

15:24

the jail where James Manley was booked and

15:27

you know, being held overnight or

15:30

waiting a bond hearing. But on the way

15:32

there, you're trying to replay these conversations in

15:34

your mind that you know, what

15:36

were the scenarios that involved James. Why

15:39

is there a GPS tracker on the

15:41

brother of you know, a dead family.

15:44

I mean, this was hitting really close to home. So

15:47

again, every trip to Pike County

15:50

was this cloud of suspicion and confusion.

15:54

You wonder if they arrested him on those charges,

15:56

to try to just bring him in and hope that they would

15:58

then question him and he wouldn't it to something

16:00

murder related.

16:01

You know, that was a suspicion. You know, it's

16:04

like, man, where is this going to end

16:06

up? You know, because this story

16:08

is horrible and horrific enough.

16:13

But six days after his arrest, the charges

16:15

against James Manley are dismissed. It's

16:18

another dead end for investigators.

16:22

Another leading theory at the time was

16:24

the involvement with the drug cartel. The Rodents

16:27

did have marijuana growing on their property, and

16:29

it was not just a few plants here

16:31

and there in the window. It was a

16:33

lot. A law enforcement source has

16:35

confirmed that investigators found some

16:37

two hundred marijuana plants on

16:39

all of the properties. The same source said that

16:41

the size of the operation indicates it was being

16:43

grown for sale and not for personal use.

16:45

And just to put that into perspective, each

16:47

plant could produce around one pound

16:50

of marijuana, and a pound of high grade

16:52

quality marijuana had a street value of around two

16:54

thousand dollars at the time, meaning that the Rodents

16:56

had in their possession four hundred thousand

16:58

dollars worth of marijuana.

17:00

I think it's worth noting also that the unemployment

17:02

rate in Piked in Ohio is one hundred

17:04

and fifteen percent higher than the national

17:06

average, and I share that simply to say,

17:09

by all accounts, the Rodents were very hard working

17:11

people, and the fact that there was this

17:13

marijuana grow operation in their backyard

17:16

kind of erased the entire investigation,

17:19

as if the Rodent family was just a bunch of

17:21

drug dealers who had it coming, and

17:24

based on our research, that really doesn't

17:26

add up.

17:27

It should be noted that around the same time

17:29

as the murders, marijuana was being legalized

17:32

for medicinal use in the state of Ohio,

17:34

So in theory, the Rodents could have been

17:36

growing the crop to be distributed for people

17:38

who were prescribed marijuana legally to

17:41

treat things like cancer and Alzheimer's.

17:43

Also, when Jeff and I were in piked in the last

17:45

time, somebody said something to us in passing,

17:47

and it's always sort of stuck with me regarding

17:49

the marijuana grow operation. On

17:51

the one hand, if it was a small operation,

17:54

how would that possibly constitute a drug cartel

17:57

hit of this size four different locations.

17:59

It fell very personal. Each crime

18:02

scene seemed to tell a story of sorts,

18:04

not totally the mo of the drug

18:06

cartel. In our research on the flip,

18:09

if it was a large scale operation, they would

18:11

have needed a lot of equipment, specialized lighting,

18:13

and that lighting likely would have caused

18:16

a bit of a surge in electricity

18:18

that would have been noticeable by the electric company

18:21

number one and number two. It also would

18:23

have been very bright. Where they lived

18:25

was a very rural road. It's dark,

18:27

there's no street lights. How would

18:30

a grow operation of that size

18:32

go unnoticed.

18:33

Yeah, and based on all of our research, if it really

18:35

was the drug cartel, they would have killed the dogs

18:37

and the kids. They leave no one behind.

18:42

I think it's okay for us to confirm that

18:45

we did find marijuana.

18:48

In three locations.

18:52

Is a grow operations.

18:55

Our producer Jeff Shane spoke to investigative

18:57

journalist James Pilcher, who was in

19:00

and just after the announcement was made.

19:01

That obviously fueled even more speculation

19:04

that these were outside operators.

19:07

Possibly was as a drug deal gone bad,

19:09

or was somebody trying to take over their turf. All

19:12

kinds of rumors started flow after that disclosure.

19:15

So this idea that like a drug

19:18

cartel being a potential culprit,

19:21

it does sound crazy. This small town infiltrated

19:23

by you know, international drug dealers

19:25

in.

19:25

The middle of Appalachia in southern Ohio,

19:28

you know, but if it turned out to be that,

19:30

we would not have been surprised because Mexican

19:33

drug cartels had done a lot of activity

19:35

in southern Ohio, in the Pike

19:37

County and Soota County and in Ross County.

19:41

In fact, in August twenty twelve, law enforcement

19:43

officers found a major marijuana groves

19:46

site in Pike County. It had suspected

19:48

ties to a Mexican drug cartel. During

19:52

that raid, officials destroyed about twelve

19:54

hundred marijuana plants and found

19:56

two abandoned campsites they believed belonged

19:58

to Mexican national The

20:01

main.

20:01

Route from southern Ohio to

20:03

Columbus, which is the next biggest city next

20:05

to Cincinnati, cuts right all through

20:07

there, so you have those

20:10

people coming in and out. Now, were

20:13

the Rodents involved directly

20:16

in

20:18

the narcotics business. There were indications

20:21

that they were involved in some drug deals, in

20:23

drug trade with marijuana.

20:26

The Rodans had attack dogs, which again

20:29

belies that all American image, which means

20:31

what did they have to hide? They had attack

20:34

dogs, the security cameras, there

20:36

was a lot of security at that place. They

20:39

wanted to protect what they had. Now,

20:42

does that mean that they were doing anything

20:44

wrong, not necessarily,

20:46

but it certainly raised a lot of questions.

20:50

Journalist Jodi Barr walked off through the logic

20:52

of the drug cartel theory.

20:54

As the months war on, no

20:57

one has been arrested, no one charged,

20:59

no people named as persons of interest,

21:02

you really started to wonder, you know, maybe

21:04

this drug cartel thing has

21:07

there was something to that. They definitely

21:10

knew how to kill people. You

21:13

know, you're looking for signs of a drug

21:15

cartel, and then you find

21:17

Kenneth Roden with what

21:19

appeared to be a gunshot in the head.

21:22

Whether there were dollar bills or

21:24

some sort of paper money

21:26

spread around the body, Was that a sign?

21:29

What did that mean? You know,

21:31

as you know, a reporter, you're studying

21:33

back, trying to draw conclusion or

21:35

at least a lead from what this meant.

21:38

I mean, what does that mean? There's a body

21:40

lying there with money on it, So,

21:42

of course a drug cartel. At that point in time,

21:45

you couple with the Attorney General announcing

21:47

that they found commercial grow operations, it

21:50

made sense.

21:57

Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll

21:59

be back in a moment. The

22:10

discovery of the Rodents grow operation didn't

22:12

just complicate the case and who might be responsible.

22:15

It forced the residents of Python to reconsider

22:18

their feelings for the family.

22:20

As soon as the Line and Reader made

22:22

that announcement of the commercial grow operations,

22:25

that appeared to change the entire

22:27

public perception of these murders.

22:30

The empathy for this family, and

22:32

even the monetary donations that were coming

22:34

in to help bury these people, all

22:37

of that stopped. There

22:39

was a large reward put up by Jeff Ruby, a

22:42

restaurant owner in Cincinnati, that

22:45

was rescinded that day. The public

22:47

support they were getting almost

22:49

vanished that day. I mean, these were

22:51

eight innocent people, and

22:53

then sort of flipped on its head that, you know, these

22:56

were eight people potentially involved in

22:58

some large drug offeration and

23:01

then people seemingly just

23:03

instantly stopped caring. And

23:06

you know, all that momentum the family had of

23:08

you know, the public being interested in this by

23:10

trying to solve it, taking care of this,

23:13

you know, these kids who were left trying

23:15

to bury these eight people. I mean, that's a large

23:17

expense that vanished that day, and

23:19

that was over as soon as that announcement was

23:21

made.

23:24

However, those closest to the family never

23:26

believed a cartel was behind the murders.

23:28

Kendra Rodent is Kenneth Roden's

23:30

daughter. Kenneth was that eighth victim. The

23:33

final victim found worked

23:35

out an interview with Kendra and her

23:37

mother at their home, and I

23:39

mean through that interview we finally

23:41

got a look at how close his family

23:43

really was. Kendrick

23:45

just going through her phone with her. She

23:48

had pictures with Hannah, she had pictures with Chris

23:50

Junior, she had pictures with Dana, her

23:52

father obviously was a large

23:55

part of the photos stored on

23:57

her phone. I mean, they looked like a normal

23:59

family. I mean there was nothing

24:02

in those pictures that would indicate that,

24:04

you know, a week later, eight

24:07

of these people in these pictures would

24:09

no longer draw the breath of life. Man. You just

24:12

it was nothing to indicate that. And you're looking at

24:14

these pictures and you're looking for some clue, You're

24:17

looking for that sign from Kendra when

24:19

you're invited into her home. You

24:22

saw none of that. I mean, it

24:24

was almost like, That's why it's almost

24:27

unbelievable that it even happened, because

24:29

when you look at these photographs and you talk to these people,

24:32

they're just like anybody else. You'd ever talk to

24:35

a typical rural American

24:37

family who rose

24:40

to this notorious, you know,

24:42

platform through the nightly

24:44

news, coming out and telling

24:47

the world about their darkest hour. Eight

24:49

people murdered in

24:51

their homes while they slept, children

24:54

spared, covered with blood, And

24:56

it's like, you try to reconcile what

24:58

you saw in those photographs in the story

25:00

that Kendra Roden was telling about this family

25:03

to the picture that you now have of them

25:06

murdered in these homes, apparently

25:09

involved in some sort of commercial drug

25:12

industry, and then you try to

25:14

put all that together. I

25:16

mean, I don't know how the hell you figure that out. It

25:19

was so confusing.

25:23

So if it wasn't a drug cartel, who was

25:25

it. Let's shift our focus back

25:27

to the Wagners for a minute. Could there

25:29

be other motives aside from the custody dispute

25:31

between Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodin. As

25:34

we found out from speaking to journalist Jeff

25:36

Winkler, there were more connections between the

25:39

Rodens and the Wagners than just Hannah

25:41

and Jake.

25:42

Obviously, the families shared a

25:44

grandchild together, so there

25:46

was just a lot of interaction between the families but

25:49

as the investigation went on, you know, there was

25:51

a clear sort of trail between

25:54

Christopher Roaden Senior and Bill Wagner.

25:57

They had been a long time

26:00

acquaintance, is possibly friends, and

26:02

also business partners. They were

26:04

just you know, some good old boy entrepreneurs.

26:08

These are multi generational families in

26:10

the same area. So yeah, they just again

26:13

that sort of mix of family and friends

26:16

and neighbors and business partners, all

26:18

sorts of blends in together.

26:20

Angela Wagner even had said to the press

26:22

that her and her husband and Chris

26:24

Senior were longtime friends. Like the Wagners

26:27

were presenting them as close allies.

26:30

And I think some of that, of course, is trying to you

26:32

know, sort of portray the family as

26:34

not adversarial to the Rodents. But

26:37

they had something to have fallen out before

26:40

the murders.

26:43

Attorney and legal commentator Mike Allen

26:45

Phil Deson.

26:46

Back in mid April twenty and sixteen,

26:49

supposedly there was a

26:51

fight between Chris Senior and

26:53

Billy Wagner that witnesses

26:56

say ended with Billy threatening to quote

26:59

come back and finished them all unquote.

27:06

Nobody seems to know what the fight was about

27:08

or what caused it. But you know, these

27:11

two families, from everything that I've seen, were

27:13

probably not shy about

27:16

taking care of business if they felt somebody

27:18

abuse them or their family.

27:25

So could this all have stemmed from some kind of

27:27

business arrangement gone wrong? Though

27:29

we can't be positive. One thing we do know

27:32

is that the detail of Chris Senior's autopsy

27:34

seems to indicate that his death was much

27:36

different than the other seven victims. Here's

27:39

James Pilcher speaking to Jeff again.

27:41

Of all the crime scenes that day, like his was known

27:44

to be the worst.

27:45

Yeah, he was shot the most first of all. He was

27:47

shot nine times, possibly because he

27:49

was trying to fight back, but possibly because you

27:51

know, the vendetta was mostly against him,

27:55

or he was the primary target, I

27:57

should say. And then they

27:59

positioned his his body in a certain

28:01

way and actually drug his body away

28:04

from where he had originally fallen, So

28:07

that gave investigators even more of

28:09

an indication that this was personal.

28:11

An anonymous Wagner family relative told

28:13

Jess that the situation between the Wagners

28:15

and the Rodents was reaching a boiling point.

28:18

This was just before the Rodents were found dead.

28:20

I knew that they were the families, Hannahs,

28:23

the Rodents, and you know my

28:25

family. They were fighting.

28:28

There was a lot of tension there, bad

28:30

blood there, but I never thought

28:32

in a million years that they had anything

28:34

to do with that. To

28:37

me, it's just it's so overwhelming.

28:39

There's a feeling that is almost

28:42

indescribable. It's kind of like, you

28:44

know, you don't know how to react, so you're constantly

28:47

at least I am at this, like I fail, Like

28:49

it does a war with my emotions, my feelings,

28:51

because I love them so much, you know

28:53

what, I care about them, and they are family,

28:56

that's your family. So it's

28:58

hard to just turn your back and be like, Okay, well

29:00

you're a freaking monster though

29:03

I want nothing to do with you, and

29:05

I don't love you no more and I don't care about

29:07

you no more.

29:08

So it seems like your relationship with

29:10

Angela and her family really changed

29:13

and never really was the same.

29:14

Yep, it did, one hundred percent. It

29:17

was absolutely mind blowing.

29:19

I just couldn't I couldn't

29:21

picture it because I knew

29:23

them completely different people,

29:25

you know what I mean. Like I would have never pictured

29:28

Angela being capable or

29:31

or the boys of any of that.

29:38

When we first heard about the Roden murders, we were

29:40

shocked at the brutality of it all, and when

29:42

we first got to piked In, we couldn't believe

29:44

that these murders took place in this community.

29:47

But upon speaking to residents and learning

29:49

more about the town, we discovered that the Rodents

29:52

were not the first murder victims who called

29:54

Pikedin home.

29:58

You know, if you look back through the history piked

30:01

And there's quite a bit of things

30:03

that just happened that, you know, there's

30:06

no explanation for get swept

30:08

under the rug. I

30:10

don't know. I think there's just more evil there

30:13

than just what happened to those

30:15

eight.

30:17

Pike County is beautiful. It's a beautiful

30:19

place, but there's a lot of dirty

30:22

people here too. For

30:25

the town that we you know, the size of our

30:27

town, there's been a

30:29

lot of murders here that have

30:31

not been solved.

30:38

More on that next week. Piked

30:43

In Massacre is executive produced by Stephanie

30:45

Leidecker and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing

30:48

and sound design by executive producer Jared

30:50

Aston. Additional producing by

30:52

Jeff Shane and Andrew Becker. The

30:54

piked In Massacre is a production of iHeartRadio

30:57

and Kat Studios. For more

30:59

podcasts. For myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio

31:01

app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen

31:04

to your favorite shows.