0:04

The medic house to brutally stabbing four University

0:06

of Idaho students to death.

0:08

Appears in court.

0:10

Coberger is accused of murdering University

0:12

of Idaho students Kailee Gonzalvez, Madison

0:15

Mogan, Zena Kernodle, and Ethan

0:17

Chapin.

0:24

This is the Idaho Massacre,

0:27

a production of KT Studios and iHeartRadio,

0:31

episode four cracks

0:34

in the narrative, I'm

0:37

Courtney Armstrong, a television producer

0:39

at KAT Studios, with Stephanie Leidecker,

0:42

Jeff Shane, and Connor Powell. After

0:47

being arrested in Pennsylvania, an extradited

0:49

twenty eight year old Brian Coberger is

0:51

in prison awaiting trial for the murders

0:54

of four University of Idaho students.

0:58

Six months after police say the former PhD

1:00

criminology student committed the brutal murders.

1:03

Coberger appeared in an Idaho courtroom.

1:08

The families of several of the victims watched

1:10

the arraignment hearing from the gallery.

1:13

After a brief glance toward the families,

1:15

Coburger kept his head and eyes looking

1:17

forward.

1:20

Day.

1:20

We are now on record in a

1:22

state of Idaho versus banger

1:27

with.

1:27

His feet shackled and wearing an orange prison

1:29

outfit. Coburger listened as the judge

1:31

read the charges against him and explained

1:34

that a conviction carried a penalty of life

1:36

in prison or death.

1:39

Miss Taylor as mister Coberger

1:41

prepared to plead to these charges.

1:44

When the judge asked Coburger's attorney if

1:46

he was ready to enter a plea of guilty or not

1:48

guilty, Attorney Ann Taylor declined.

1:54

The judge then entered a plea on behalf of

1:56

Brian Coburger.

1:58

Because Coberger is

2:00

standing silent, I'm

2:02

going to answer that guilty police each

2:05

charge.

2:07

The judge then set a trial date for October

2:10

second.

2:11

Brian was very shocked by his arrest.

2:14

While investigators believe they have their man,

2:16

the case against Brian Cobeger is far

2:19

from airtight.

2:21

Eager to be exonerated was the language

2:23

he used as he was asserting innocence.

2:27

It's important to note that Brian Cobeger

2:30

has not been found guilty of any crimes.

2:33

Monroe County public defender Jason

2:35

Lebar represented Coburger in Pennsylvania

2:37

after his arrest. Lebar is

2:40

no longer working for Coburger, but

2:42

has been a regular on TV and in the media,

2:44

pushing back on the official police narrative.

2:47

It's a strong circumstantial

2:50

case, but the evidence, when it is

2:52

viewed individually, you can attack that

2:54

evidence as a defense attorney.

2:57

Here's Stephanie and Jeff.

3:00

So at this point, officials are in the very

3:02

early stages of laying out their case against

3:05

the alleged killer, Brian Coburger.

3:07

Yeah, all that's been released is this nineteen

3:09

page probable cause AFFIDAVID. A

3:11

probable cause affidavid is a summary

3:13

of the evidence and circumstances of the arrest.

3:16

It's usually written by the arresting officer and

3:18

given to a judge for a review.

3:19

And within these nineteen pages we learned

3:22

a lot about the night of the massacre and

3:24

how police zeroed in on Coburger

3:26

specifically.

3:27

A lot of the evidence at this stage is merely

3:30

circumstantial. Now, for listeners who don't know or

3:32

need a reminder, circumstantial evidence is evidence

3:34

of facts that the court can draw conclusions from.

3:37

So in this case, the fact that we know Coburger's

3:39

cell phone pinged off of towers near the scene

3:41

of the crime points to the idea that he may have

3:43

been around the area when these murders were

3:45

committed, and when you put all of that together, it

3:47

paints a pretty damning picture, but it's not direct

3:50

evidence like DNA or being in

3:52

possession of the murder weapon. We need to remember

3:54

that everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty,

3:57

and as Coburger's first attorney pointed out, the

3:59

best way for any defense to attack the prosecution

4:01

is to remind the jury that everything the

4:03

prosecution has is circumstantial,

4:06

because at the end of the day, all the

4:08

defense needs to do is find one jury member

4:10

who has doubts about the case.

4:12

And it's also important to note that likely

4:15

investigators have more evidence than

4:17

their sharing at this point.

4:21

In the immediate aftermath of the brutal murders,

4:23

Moscow police said the two surviving roommates,

4:26

Dylan Mortensen and Bethany Funk,

4:28

were home during the murders, but they

4:30

did not wake up until later in the morning.

4:33

That information was part of every timeline

4:35

until December twentieth, when Moscow

4:38

pdeve removed it. Ten days

4:40

later, when Brian Coberger was arrested,

4:42

police stated in the probable cause

4:44

Affidavid that Dylan was not only

4:47

awake, but had seen the

4:49

attacker.

4:52

This time, she saw a dark figure standing

4:55

there in black clothing, wearing a mask

4:57

that covered that person's mouth. She remembered

4:59

that person being about five foot ten, not

5:01

very muscular, but with an athletic build.

5:04

She also remembered seeing bushy eyebrows.

5:07

Here again, Jeff and Stephanie.

5:11

Regardless of what Dylan may or may not have seen,

5:13

she and Bethany are both victims and

5:16

all this. They lived through a

5:18

serious trauma, They lost their friends, and have been

5:20

skewered by the media.

5:21

It's just not right.

5:23

The prosecution may be sympathetic to that, but

5:25

they also have a case to close, and Dylan

5:28

is the big star witness, and the question

5:30

is, though, is sheer reliable.

5:32

One terrified she remained

5:34

frozen in place as the suspect

5:36

walked past her and left out

5:39

the sliding glass door behind her.

5:40

There are some things we know based on the probable

5:43

cause effidavit. We know that Dylan was quote

5:45

unquote frozen in fear, that she heard

5:47

some sort of cries from her roommates, and

5:49

she saw a masked man who was slender but

5:51

not muscular, with bushy eyebrows.

5:53

Dylan's description definitely offers

5:56

something, but again, it doesn't really

5:58

link Brian Coberger to the murder, not

6:01

very muscular, having bushy eyebrows

6:03

that could describe a lot of people. She

6:06

also made no mention of skin color or

6:08

hair color.

6:09

While at first the information dell And provided seemed

6:11

to point the finger at Coburger, upon

6:13

closer look at actually might be more helpful

6:16

for the defense because this vague description

6:18

could cause reasonable doubt amongst dury

6:20

members.

6:21

Detectives announced that they are interested

6:23

in talking to the person or people

6:25

in a white twenty eleven to twenty thirteen

6:28

Hondai Elektra.

6:33

The first piece of evidence that appears to connect

6:35

Brian Koberger to the crime is his

6:37

white Hondai Alantra.

6:40

It may be a big break in the

6:42

case.

6:42

A grainy image of a speeding car

6:44

that could be the white Hondai Alantra

6:47

police are looking for.

6:51

According to the probable Cause Affidavid,

6:53

multiple security cameras caught a white

6:55

Alantra driving past the home on King

6:57

Road within minutes around the murders.

7:00

Coburger's first defense attorney, Jason

7:02

Lebar points out that white Olanchas

7:05

are common cars and Coburger

7:07

is just one of many owners of the four door

7:09

Sedan.

7:10

The white A Lantra can't be determined

7:13

to be his white Alantra. I mean,

7:15

there's circumstantial evidence indicating

7:17

that it could potentially be his white

7:19

A Launcher, but there's certainly not direct

7:21

evidence.

7:24

Again, Jeff and Stephanie.

7:27

We know that within days of the murders, police told

7:29

the wider community to be on the lookout for a white

7:31

Hyundai Elantra.

7:32

As a result, the officer at WSU

7:35

found this exact type of car registered

7:38

to Brian Coburger.

7:39

Police also checked his records and noted that Coburger

7:42

had changed his registration from Pennsylvania

7:44

to Washington State on November eighteenth,

7:47

which was just days after the murder.

7:49

They don't have direct evidence that he's driving

7:51

the white Alantra.

7:52

Here's the problem. Police haven't provided any

7:54

evidence that Coburger was actually driving

7:57

the car speeding past the house on King Road as

7:59

of this moment. There's no highway or red light

8:01

camera photos, nothing.

8:03

That we know of.

8:04

And keep in mind, at this point we may not have

8:06

all the information that the police does.

8:08

That's true, and we also don't know what they found

8:11

in the car. According to experts we talked to,

8:13

if this was Coburger's car and he really did

8:15

kill four people and then get in and drive away,

8:17

it's likely that, no matter how well he scrubbed

8:20

and cleaned, there would be some sort of DNA

8:22

evidence in that car from the night in question.

8:24

And I think it's worth noting that DNA can take

8:27

weeks to process, and at the time

8:29

of his arrest, investigators didn't have

8:31

access to his car.

8:32

However, now weeks later they do. A

8:38

key part of the prosecution of Brian Coburger

8:41

will be putting him at the scene of the crime. Police

8:45

also need to place Brian Coberger behind

8:47

the wheel of the suspected vehicle in

8:50

the probable cause AFFIDAVID Investigators

8:53

rely on historical cell side data

8:55

to make this connection. Here

8:57

again Jeff and Stephanie.

9:00

So in an effort to track Coburger,

9:03

police really had to rely on cell phone towers

9:06

and to see where Coburger's cell phone

9:08

was pinging from A.

9:10

Cell phone pang is the act of determining

9:12

the estimated current location of a cell phone.

9:14

This may be accomplished via GPS data or

9:16

by using cell phone tower triangulation,

9:19

which, as we know in this case, is what they used.

9:21

Police were able to get a search warrant for Coburger's

9:24

cell phone records because he had been pulled

9:26

over for a traffic violation prior

9:29

and he gave police his cell phone number.

9:31

Upon reviewing the records, police determined

9:34

that Coburger's phone was connecting

9:36

to towers in Moscow around

9:39

that time, and that his movements were

9:41

very similar to what the alleged

9:43

killer was doing at that time.

9:45

And so I think what we surmise from this is that we are all

9:47

glued to our phones. I'm here's my in

9:49

my hand right now. So it stands to reason that of

9:51

Coburger was in the car that night,

9:54

so was his phone. However, it

9:56

should be noted that locating a mobile

9:58

phone based on a single Stete cell phone tower places

10:00

the phone in a broad area, but it cannot

10:03

actually pinpoint the exact location. So

10:05

it's not like this is one hundred percent reliable science.

10:08

Cell Phones are intimate devices. Their

10:10

data knows a lot about us. If

10:12

Coburger's phone was in his car,

10:15

then he was likely in his car. Once

10:17

police began to hone in on Brian Coburger,

10:20

they began looking at his movements around the time

10:22

of the murders. He had given his cell

10:24

phone number to a deputy during a previous

10:26

traffic stop, so police got a search

10:28

warrant for his cell phone records. A

10:31

police review determined Coburger's phone

10:33

was connecting to towers in the Moscow area

10:35

and were similar to the movements of the suspected

10:38

white Atlantra investigators believed

10:40

was the murder vehicle. But cell phone

10:42

pings on a tower are not precise

10:44

GPS location coordinates.

10:47

If it was GPS location cordinates,

10:49

you're talking down to a meter as to

10:51

where Brian Coburger was at the time

10:53

of these crimes, Whereas a cell phone

10:55

tower ping is that you're within a radius

10:58

of that tower up to twenty miles.

11:00

And obviously mister Coburger lived

11:03

within ten miles of the University

11:05

of Idaho where these crimes were committed,

11:07

so certainly he could ping at any moment in

11:10

time near the actual crime.

11:12

The night of the murders, Coburger's phone was

11:15

tracked heading to Moscow before the attack,

11:17

but his phone was off from two forty

11:19

seven am to four forty

11:22

eight AM.

11:23

So what you're saying is that this looks like what he's trying

11:25

to conceal his location for these approximately

11:28

two hours.

11:28

Coburger's former attorney said, just

11:31

because Coburger's phone pings at a tower

11:33

doesn't mean much considering the short distance

11:35

between Pullman, Washington, where

11:37

Coburger lived, and Moscow,

11:40

where the victims were murdered.

11:42

Right because the phone data places him near

11:44

the scene of the crime, but not actually at the

11:46

scene of the crime. Now, his cars

11:48

built in computer may be a different story

11:50

and provide a lot of data, but so far it

11:52

has not been presented as evidence.

12:01

When investigators began combing through

12:03

the crime scene, they found a tan leather

12:05

knife sheath underneath Madison's body

12:08

and the comforter. According

12:10

to the probable cause Affidavid police

12:12

found a single mail source DNA

12:15

on the button of that knife sheath. Later

12:17

testing identified that DNA as

12:19

Brian Coburger's.

12:24

On the face of it, this DNA link on

12:26

the knife sheath is very strong evidence against

12:29

Coburger, but upon closer inspection,

12:31

the existence of DNA on the sheaf doesn't

12:33

actually mean Coburger was there

12:35

the knight of the murders. All it really means is

12:37

that at some point he came into contact with the knife

12:39

sheath.

12:40

And granted this all sounds very suspicious,

12:43

but again just throwing it out there as an alternate

12:45

theory. Maybe somebody is trying

12:47

to frame Coburger and that the real

12:50

killer placed the knife sheath where the victims

12:52

were murdered.

12:53

That is certainly an argument that defense could

12:55

and probably will make without a murder weapon.

12:57

This evidence is circumstantial. Remember this,

13:00

for Gill is beyond a reasonable doubt.

13:02

It does seem like there's a lot of evidence mounting

13:05

against Coburger. There are also

13:07

plenty of places, though, to raise reasonable doubt.

13:12

Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in

13:14

a moment. If

13:22

Brian Coberger's innocent as

13:24

he claims, are there any alternative

13:26

theories that could explain the murders Jeff

13:29

and Stephanie.

13:30

Like so many murder investigations, the police

13:33

looked into many different possibilities. In the immediate

13:35

aftermath of the crimes. The first suspect

13:38

was Kaylee's ex boyfriend, a young man named Jack.

13:40

The para dated for about five years and had

13:42

recently broken up, but they were still in communication

13:45

the night of the murders. Between two twenty six

13:47

and two forty four am, Kaylee called Jack six

13:50

times. Then between two forty four

13:52

and two fifty two am, Madison, who

13:54

was presumably with Kaylee, called him three

13:56

times. Finally, at two fifty two am,

13:58

Kaylee called him one more time, all to no

14:00

avail.

14:01

This was all so tragic for Jack,

14:03

but again it's very common to look at the people

14:05

closest to the victims first

14:07

when you're starting an investigation. But he

14:10

was ultimately cleared very quickly.

14:12

So after the ex boyfriend, we heard about a supposed

14:14

stalker. A local business owner went

14:16

to the press and said that about three weeks before the murders,

14:19

they overheard Madison and Kaylee voicing concerns

14:22

about Kaylee being stocked. She

14:24

said she would beg friends to walk closely behind

14:26

her at all times after becoming terrified

14:28

of someone who would follow her around town. Could

14:30

this mystery stocker also be the killer?

14:32

And that story was also backed

14:35

up by the footage from this food truck. In

14:37

this video, if you've seen it, it appeared

14:39

that there was this gentleman, a

14:42

young guy kind of following Kaylee and Madison.

14:45

And again, depending upon how you look at this footage,

14:48

you could interpret this person

14:50

as looking creepy or suspicious because

14:52

he was wearing a hood. It's a snippet

14:54

of a video. So is everyone

14:56

just grasping at straws or is

14:59

this actual real evidence.

15:03

Well staph. After this food truck

15:05

guy, we heard about Xana's Doordashulibry

15:08

and whether or not the driver might have seen something

15:10

or somehow been involved.

15:11

And there were also all of those rumors about a love

15:13

triangle gone wrong and scorned roommates

15:16

seeking revenge. It all was

15:18

getting extremely nuts at this point. It seems

15:20

as though social media at

15:23

least was targeting a lot of people without

15:25

any information.

15:26

And it's safe to assume that investigators checked

15:29

out all these possibilities and people and they were

15:31

all cleared or never even considered suspects

15:33

in the first place. But unfortunately, with a case

15:35

like this, it doesn't really mean much for these

15:37

innocent men and women because they

15:39

were not free from online abuse and the court

15:41

of public opinion.

15:46

Within hours of the brutal murders, local

15:48

and national media descended on the once

15:50

relatively unknown town of Moscow

15:53

and began to cover the shocking killings.

15:55

At nearly the same time, an invisible

15:58

army of internet sleuths and trolls began

16:00

to speculate on the investigation from

16:02

Afar. Dozens of YouTube,

16:04

TikTok, Facebook, and Reddit groups

16:06

emerged overnight to discuss, dissect,

16:09

and analyze all aspects of the

16:11

case.

16:12

People are making things up because they want answers

16:15

and because the gag order. People are making things

16:17

up for content too, So like on Instagram

16:20

and TikTok and YouTube, people are just making shut

16:22

up and the running with it like it was a drug

16:24

house and you know this was a drug

16:26

deal gone bad and the door dash driver was

16:28

secretly delivering cocaine. You know what

16:30

I mean. Like, people are just making shut up.

16:33

Despite the massive amount of public interest,

16:35

for weeks, police provided few details

16:37

about the gruesome murders, and the judge

16:40

in Idaho also issued a gag order

16:42

preventing anyone involved from speaking

16:44

publicly. The Internet

16:46

often recklessly jumped in to fill

16:49

the void. The baseless speculation

16:51

and misinformation came with grim consequences

16:54

for real innocent people.

16:56

Just no, I'm not the only one who

16:59

suspect Rebecca's.

16:59

Go a TikTok

17:02

psychic accused Rebecca Schofield,

17:04

an associate professor at the University,

17:06

of being in a lover's triangle and orchestrating

17:09

the murders.

17:10

If anyone would have been considered

17:12

a person of interest.

17:13

And would have had a motive, it would

17:15

have been Jack. At the same time,

17:18

a YouTuber accused Kaylee's ex

17:20

boyfriend, Jack Decor of the killings,

17:22

suggesting their recent breakup after five

17:24

years of dating as a cause for the crime.

17:31

When you talk about like the reddit, because there's so many

17:33

subreddits dedicated to this case. There's

17:36

Idaho four, There's Moscow Murders,

17:38

there's you know, Brian Coberger Moscow

17:41

murders. There's so many different subreddits

17:43

dedicated to this case that have, i

17:46

mean hundreds of thousands of posts discussing

17:48

everything under the sun. And because there's

17:50

no real moderation, you know, on

17:53

those those subreddits, there's all kinds

17:55

of speculation.

17:56

You know.

17:56

The moderation on some of the subreddits

17:59

could use little work. I mean, people are

18:01

posting, you know, make they're making things

18:03

up.

18:07

Deanna Thompson is the co host, along

18:09

with John Green, of the upcoming iHeart

18:12

Kat Studios podcast True

18:14

Crimes with John and Deanna. In

18:16

twenty ten, they led the online effort

18:18

to identify and catch the international

18:21

serial killer Luca Magnata

18:23

That case was later turned into the popular

18:25

Netflix documentary Don't Fuck

18:28

with Cats. Stephanie

18:31

and Jeff.

18:33

John Green and Deana Thompson aren't your typical

18:35

online slows. They became famous for their

18:37

work helping catch a killer online. It

18:40

was all showcased in Netflix's Don't f with Cats

18:42

in twenty nineteen. Here at Katie Studios, we're

18:44

actually working with them on a new podcast called

18:46

True Crimes, which will be out later this year.

18:48

And if you haven't seen their documentary, please

18:51

do. It's astounding the work that

18:53

they do. They're the perfect example

18:55

of people who really conduct ethical,

18:57

responsible investigations and turn

19:00

over any relevant information to the police.

19:02

It's impressive and it's really effective.

19:06

Here's Deanna Thompson aka

19:08

Body Movin, followed by John Green.

19:11

I do think that people want

19:14

to make sense of a

19:16

really senseless murder of for like super

19:19

rad people, you know, like how could

19:21

this happen? So you have to make sense of it somehow,

19:23

And in order to do that with a gag order

19:26

and no information coming out, the only

19:28

thing that you can do is get on the

19:30

internet and talk to other people who are also

19:32

trying to figure out what happened and I think that is cathartic.

19:35

The problem with it is is imagine

19:37

being Dylan or Bethany and having

19:39

all these rumors come out about you,

19:41

like you're involved somehow or you

19:43

were in some sort of drug ring or

19:46

human trafficking. I mean, the

19:48

gamut has run wild

19:50

on these two girls, and it's really tragic

19:53

because they are listed as victims. They are

19:55

listed as victims, and

19:57

you don't victim shame people. And I

19:59

feel that's what's been done to Dylan and

20:01

Bethany. And it was happening to just

20:03

Dylan because she's mentioned a lot in the PCA,

20:06

But now that Bethany has potentially

20:09

exculpatory information and she just

20:11

got a subpoena in the state of Nevada

20:13

to come testify at the

20:15

prelim hearing, which has been squashed by the way they're

20:17

going to come to Nevada and interview her instead. Now

20:21

all the attentions on Bethany because she potentially

20:23

has exculpatory information, and it's

20:25

like, what does she know that's going to help Brian, you

20:27

know what I mean, Like people are already starting to point fingers

20:29

at her and it breaks my heart for them. And

20:32

so that side of things I find quite

20:34

disgusting, quite disgusting, and

20:36

I have no qualms in telling people how disgusting

20:38

I think they are.

20:39

Another aspect to it is time.

20:42

When the incident happens and there's

20:45

an amount of time that lapses before

20:47

the police arrest somebody, I think that

20:49

it triggers something in people. So

20:51

this incident happened November thirteenth.

20:54

It was a high profile murder

20:56

case where four innocent college students

20:58

in a small town were killed. Was on all

21:00

the major news. Nobody knew. I

21:02

think people get triggered, like, what

21:05

is taking the police so long? Why can't

21:07

they solve this? I know, I'm going to jump

21:09

online and I'm going to try and figure this

21:11

out myself. So there's that time

21:13

element to it. I think it took six weeks

21:15

before they arrested Brian. So when

21:18

you have this gap and people think police

21:20

aren't doing their job, I believe some

21:22

of the parents are coming out saying the police

21:24

aren't being forthcoming. I think that

21:26

adds to it and gives people this sense

21:28

of hey, let's go online. I mean,

21:31

if you arrest somebody within forty eight

21:33

seventy two hours, there's no time for the public

21:35

to go out there and make these wild accusations,

21:38

or for psychics to get involved in

21:40

you know, try and figure out anytime a psychic's

21:42

involved, you know something's not right. Don't listen

21:44

to psychics. So I think that was

21:47

part of this very high profile case.

21:51

Well, yeah, let's talk about how there's a way to

21:53

do it ethically, and that's what you guys do, and then there's

21:55

ways with unethically, which is maybe what we're seeing.

21:59

Yeah. So one of the things, you

22:01

know, and I don't know if it's an ethical thing or not, but

22:04

one of the things that we have done

22:06

in the past is we don't really talk about

22:08

the cases that we're working on. Ever.

22:10

We don't post about them.

22:12

We don't ask the public for help.

22:14

We don't and if we do, it's very sneaky,

22:16

you know, and it doesn't give anything away. We

22:19

don't make videos about

22:21

them, we don't do anything. And it's

22:24

specifically because we don't want

22:26

the suspect to know

22:28

that we're looking at them. Number one, because

22:31

sometimes I feel like there's a new

22:33

case right now and I feel

22:35

like me even acknowledging that I know

22:37

about it gives that the

22:40

person that did it like a little bit of a rush,

22:42

like Ooh, body Movement's looking at me, you know

22:44

what I mean, Like Ooh,

22:46

I put this cat in a blunder and

22:48

maybe i'll i'll, you know, maybe body

22:51

movement and John Green will look at my case, you know, Like

22:53

I don't want to give them any attention. So I

22:55

don't want the suspect to know that I have

22:57

the specific evidence I eat

23:00

puma, which we talk about a lot

23:02

in the podcast. I don't want the suspect

23:04

to even know that him

23:07

and I are working on it, because

23:09

I think that will give them some sort of ego boost

23:11

that these Netflix people are looking at

23:13

me, you know, get them happy

23:16

if there is Like in the cases

23:18

that John and I typically work on, the victim

23:21

is an animal, right, so there's

23:23

no like human being that

23:25

I have to like be careful

23:27

with, like as far as a victim is

23:29

concerned. But if

23:32

you are talking about something like Idaho

23:34

or there are actual humans

23:37

that are victims and family that is

23:39

suffering, I just think it's incredibly

23:41

insensitive to get

23:44

on national television and

23:46

talk about rumors that you've heard

23:49

where Ethan was sliced from

23:52

ankle to groin.

23:53

Do you know what I mean.

23:54

I just think that's it's a rumor. I

23:56

just think it's incredibly insensitive. His

23:59

parents, his brother, their and sister. They

24:01

have to see that, you know what I mean. And

24:03

while they know what happened, I'm sure by

24:05

now they know what happened to him. Do we

24:07

really need to know what happened to him right now before

24:10

court? Do we need to know that? Is it important

24:12

that the public know that

24:15

you heard a rumor that Ethan was

24:17

slashed from ankle to groin?

24:19

And I just think it's insensitive and I

24:21

would never do that.

24:23

Dan and I at the core of it, are true crime

24:25

fans, just like people listening to this podcast.

24:27

And as a true crime fan, you've

24:30

watched enough documentaries or series

24:32

involving detectives or investigations,

24:35

you always hear the same thing. It's an ongoing

24:37

investigation, no comment, and

24:39

so you need to learn to keep a tight lip,

24:42

not say anything, don't expose

24:44

anything that you have or know. You know,

24:46

again, we're just armchair

24:49

detectives, are not experts

24:51

or anything. Who are we to go online and making

24:53

a statement or accusation or accuse somebody,

24:56

You know, it's not our place. We try to

24:58

collect the evidence, put it in a format

25:00

that's easily understandable. Contact

25:03

the local law enforcement or wherever has jurisdiction.

25:06

Talk to somebody there, say hey, we'd like to email

25:08

you something. Let them handle it from

25:10

there.

25:14

Let's stop here for another break.

25:25

In twenty twenty two, investigators

25:28

requested social media videos and

25:30

photos to help zero in on the movements

25:32

of Gabby Patito before and after

25:34

she disappeared. Here is

25:36

Adam Wandit, a digital forensic

25:38

expert and professor at John Jay

25:40

College of Criminal Justice. He

25:43

points out that her case isn't really one

25:45

of online's slews breaking the case

25:47

open, but more an example of the

25:49

widespread availability of

25:51

videos aiding law enforcement.

25:53

In the Gabby Potito case, the

25:56

evidence that led to the recovery

25:58

of Gabby Potito's body was

26:00

actually evidence that was on a video

26:03

camera of somebody who was driving

26:05

through the park that accidentally

26:08

recorded the vehicle that was

26:10

used to dump her body in the park,

26:13

and only after the case, only after

26:15

he recorded it, when he learned

26:17

on social media that there was a

26:20

potential body or murder in that park,

26:22

he went through his own evidence, found

26:25

what he was looking for, posted it to YouTube,

26:27

sent it to law enforcement, and in the Gabby

26:30

Batito case specifically, that

26:32

evidence was critical pro

26:34

finding her body and bringing

26:37

her killer to justice.

26:39

And you know, it doesn't always happen that the public has

26:42

that information, but in the Gabby Batito case

26:44

they did. But that is certainly,

26:46

you know, the rare exception.

26:52

When Internet sleuths have inserted themselves

26:54

into active cases, it hasn't always

26:56

gone well. In twenty thirteen, thousands

26:59

of online and amateur detectives rushed

27:01

to identify the individuals they believed

27:03

carried out the Boston marathon bombing.

27:06

They were wrong and misidentified

27:08

several innocent people. With

27:12

thousands of online sleuths and commentators

27:14

posting about the Idaho murders, some

27:16

have stuck out.

27:18

A user who goes by Papa Roger was

27:20

a prolific contributor on the site with

27:23

many creepy and insensitive posts.

27:27

The prolific poster appear to have

27:29

knowledge of the facts of the case before information

27:32

was officially released. At

27:35

the same time, Papa Rogers also

27:37

made claims that turned out to be wrong, like

27:40

suggesting that the white Alantra was a

27:42

quote red herring. Many

27:44

have speculated that the poster Papa

27:46

Rogers was in fact Brian Coberger,

27:50

Stephanie, and Jeff.

27:52

Papa Rogers was a member of the

27:54

University of Idaho Murders Case

27:56

Discussion, which was basically a Facebook

27:58

group up out of nowhere

28:01

and very quickly amassed about two hundred

28:03

and twenty five thousand users. That

28:06

just shows the country's interest in this case.

28:08

It's just one of the hundreds of online groups

28:10

talking about the case real time, but

28:13

of all the members, Papa Rogers

28:16

he stuck out to the group because he was being very

28:18

condescending and very argumentative

28:20

to other online users.

28:22

Other things also caused Papa Rogers

28:25

to be a notable member of this group. They posted

28:27

frequently with information that seemed almost too

28:29

detailed. For example, one post read of

28:32

the evidence released the murder weapon has

28:34

been consistent as a large, fixed blade

28:36

knife. This leads me to believe they found the

28:38

sheath. While this time police did say

28:40

they were searching for a bladed murder weapon, investigators

28:42

hadn't yet said anything about the knife sheath being

28:45

at the murder scene until the probable cause AFFIDAVID

28:47

was released, meaning that Papa Rogers

28:49

was either a very good guesser or they

28:52

somehow knew something the general public did not, and.

28:54

Also real time over on Readit, a

28:56

very similar user named inside

28:59

Looking also appeared to have a lot

29:01

of detailed information that hadn't been released

29:03

to the press yet.

29:04

One post read speculation killer

29:06

parked behind the house, approached property

29:08

through treeline, entered sliding door, and left

29:11

it open. Committed murders an exited

29:13

sliding door, one knife according to Corner's

29:15

statement. Time of murder approximately three

29:17

twenty to three forty am, according to the car

29:19

fleeing the scene and on camera on Highway

29:22

eight approximately three forty five am. Vehicle

29:24

left skid marks upon exit.

29:26

The detailed post really creeped

29:28

out the Reddit posters, and there

29:30

was this one person I recall saying, quote,

29:33

Dude, this guy is solving his own

29:35

crime, psycho end quote,

29:37

really implying that it's possible

29:39

that the killer has now joined this

29:42

group to really better understand the chatter

29:44

happening around the crime. Interestingly,

29:47

or coincidentally, Papa Rodgers

29:49

was later kicked out of the group discussion and

29:51

seemingly disappeared just

29:54

before Coburger was arrested.

30:00

More on that next time. For

30:03

more information on the case and relevant photos,

30:06

follow us on Instagram at Kat

30:08

Underscore Studios. The

30:10

Idaho Masacre is produced by Stephanie Leidecker,

30:13

Jeff Shane, Connor Powell, Chris

30:15

Bargo, Gabriel Castillo and

30:17

me Courtney Armstrong. Editing

30:20

and sound designed by Jeff Toi. Music

30:23

by Jared Aston. The

30:25

Idaho Massacre is a production of iHeart Radio

30:28

and KAT Studios. For

30:30

more podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio

30:33

app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

30:35

listen to your favorite shows.

30:40

I'm Diana.

30:40

You may know as Body Movin, My Friend

30:42

and I John Green were featured in the Netflix

30:45

documentary Don't f with Cats. On

30:47

our new podcast True Crimes with John and

30:49

Deiana were turning our online investigative

30:51

skills to some of the most unexplained, unsolved,

30:55

and most ignored cases.

30:58

Please say thirty three year old bride again shot

31:00

dead.

31:00

Gunned down in front of his two year old daughter.

31:03

Detectives confirmed that it was a targeted

31:05

attack.

31:06

It appears to be an execution style of

31:08

assassination.

31:09

This is very active, so we have to be careful.

31:12

I've heard that there's a house that has some

31:14

bodies in the basement.

31:15

I knew, I just knew something was wrong.

31:18

Maybe there's something more sinister at play

31:20

than just one young girl going missing.

31:23

If you know something, heard

31:25

something, please it's

31:27

never too late to.

31:28

Do the right thing.

31:30

This is true Crimes with John and Deanna, the

31:32

production of.

31:33

KT Studios and iHeartRadio.

31:36

Justice is something that takes

31:39

different shapes or formed