0:02

What stands out to me is just the

0:05

sheer massiveness

0:07

of this thing and the absolute

0:10

brutality of this thing. These

0:13

were real human beings who lost their lives, and

0:15

it's not just what happened to them, but they were actual

0:17

people. Legal

0:19

fireworks are uped in court as George

0:21

Wagner the Force attorneys try to put

0:23

a sudden end to his trial and the Pike County

0:26

massacre. We would

0:28

ask for this trial based on grusal photos

0:31

they've shown to the jury. They

0:34

noticed these photographs were coming, So I

0:36

don't know how much of this was rooted

0:39

in legal practice and how much of it

0:41

is rooted in theatrics. This

0:49

is the piped massacer. Returned

0:51

to Pike County Season

0:53

four, Episode seven, Everybody

0:57

Has a Story.

1:00

I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer

1:02

at Katie's Studios with Stephanie Leidecer

1:04

and Jeff Shane. It's the middle

1:07

of George Wagner the Fourth's trial, and

1:09

it's important to note that he has pleaded not guilty

1:12

and has maintained he did not kill anyone.

1:14

His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial

1:17

is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty

1:19

to all charges. Hours

1:22

of testimony from investigators and relatives

1:25

has painted a very real portrait of what

1:27

the crime scenes look like, But

1:30

on this day of the trial, no one could

1:32

have imagined the gruesomeness they would face.

1:37

Listener warning, this episode

1:39

covers a particularly graphic portion

1:41

of the court testimony. Discretion

1:44

is strongly advised. You

1:49

soldomnly swear or from not the testimony

1:51

you're about to give. Hill to the truth, the whole truth,

1:53

and nothing but the truth that you shall answer unto

1:55

God. I do. Prosecutor

1:58

Anji Cineppa and her team call doctor

2:00

Karen Luhman to the stand. Luman

2:03

is a forensic pathologist who carried out

2:05

autopsies on all eight of the victims.

2:09

Wednesday, she talked about examining Chris

2:12

Senior's son, Frankie Rodin and

2:14

his fiance Hannah Gilly. Both

2:16

were found shot to death in their bed inside

2:18

a mobile home, with their infant son left

2:20

alive between them. The

2:23

eight deceased members of the Rodent family

2:25

were discovered on a Friday. Once

2:27

investigators for BCI were done processing

2:30

the crime scenes, the bodies

2:32

were removed and transported for autopsy.

2:35

And you did the females first. On

2:38

April twenty third. That seems sack.

2:41

Yes okay, And

2:43

would you have done that first

2:45

thing in the morning? Yes, okay?

2:48

And what time is It's six seven

2:51

am.

2:53

Here's James Pilcher, longtime investigative

2:55

reporter in Cincinnati, now with Local

2:58

twelve. She got the call

3:00

first thing Saturday morning. She starts in she

3:03

had to do eight autopsies in three

3:05

days, but she

3:07

actually did three on one day, and

3:11

then another four on another day,

3:13

and then another one on Monday. And

3:16

these weren't just you're running them all autopsies.

3:23

I don't know what she must have gone through that

3:25

weekend. And knowing they're all

3:27

one family, we're all like talking

3:30

amongst ourselves, how are we going to handle

3:32

our own mental health through all of this? I

3:34

can imagine what she's going through. Here's

3:40

forensic medical examiner Joseph

3:42

Scott Morgan. You're talking

3:44

about multiple gunshot wounds and

3:46

lots of evidence trace evidence. To recover

3:49

each one of these autopsies would

3:52

have taken a couple of hours

3:54

because it would have been X

3:57

rays, external photographs,

4:00

removal of clothing, searching

4:02

for trace evidence on the clothing in place,

4:05

documentation of the clothing, documentation

4:07

of the holes in the clothing, the defects

4:10

in the clothing, the bloodstains on the clothing,

4:12

all of those measurements. And we haven't

4:14

even made it to the body yet. Just

4:16

let that sink in. So can you imagine how exhausting

4:19

this would be and how draining

4:21

this is psychically?

4:26

Based on a quick review of doctor Lehman's

4:28

work, she does not shy away from emotionally

4:30

challenging cases. She has performed

4:33

autopsies and testified in many murder

4:35

trials, including those of Toddler's. On

4:38

the stand, she appears relaxed and

4:40

direct. Can

4:43

you tell us what we are looking at? This

4:46

is a photograph of Hannah

4:49

Hazel as we open the body

4:51

bag. That's a picture of Hannah's

4:53

chest showing her bra

4:55

and she has a maternity bra and

4:58

the hooks for the front

5:00

of the bra are open and her breast

5:03

is exposed in that yestograph. And

5:05

do you see liver mortis in that picture?

5:09

There is some liver mortis in the picture.

5:11

Yes, here

5:14

again, Joseph Scott Morgan. Well,

5:17

when you begin to think about live or mortisy,

5:20

it's probably one of the most

5:22

solid fallback positions when it comes

5:24

to judging post mortem

5:27

interval. And the reason is is that

5:30

it's totally gravitationally dependent.

5:33

It's not impacted by temperature. Sadly,

5:35

the blood is impacted only

5:38

only by gravity. So the

5:40

blood will actually pol in the lowest

5:42

dependent area. And

5:45

it's very simple to explain. Just just

5:47

think for a moment. If you've

5:49

got a cup of water. If you pour

5:52

that cup of water out into the sink,

5:54

well, what's it going to seek. It's going to seek the

5:56

lowest point of gravity, and in the case of the

5:58

sink, it's going to be the drain. So just

6:00

imagine, if you will, there's a body lying flat,

6:03

which we would call the soup high position

6:06

line, flat on the back, face

6:08

upwards. Well, the blood

6:11

is going to pool into those

6:14

dependent regions in the back on

6:16

the posterior. We can tell

6:19

how long someone has been down within

6:21

two to three hours essentially, when we

6:23

apply all of these components, whether it's the rigidity

6:26

of the body, the temperature of the body,

6:29

and more specifically the post war mobidity,

6:31

the settling of blood. Can

6:34

you tell us if the liver mortars that you see

6:36

in that is consistent with her laying

6:39

mostly on her stomach kind of

6:41

to the right side, on the right side, yes,

6:44

on the right side, Yes. What parts

6:46

of the body did you notice injuries to on ms

6:48

Gilly Hannah Hazel head injuries only

6:50

to her head. How many gunshot

6:52

wounds did Hannah Hazel have? Five

6:58

lumin examines an X ray of Hannah

7:00

hazeler Gilly's head and explains

7:03

you can see the round orbits where

7:05

the eyes are. You can see where teeth are

7:07

at the bottom, and then you can see

7:09

four relatively

7:12

larger white radio

7:14

opaque things on the right side of the head.

7:17

Those are bigger bullets. They are deformed,

7:20

so you see their funny different shapes. They're

7:22

deformed because they've struck the bone. And

7:24

then you see there's tiny little pieces

7:27

of metal above those

7:29

four pieces. And on the other side,

7:31

by the left eye, those are all

7:33

tiny little fragments of bullet. Joseph

7:38

Scott Morgan. You know they won't

7:40

show certain photographs in court or because

7:43

defense will say they're prejudicial. One of the most beautiful

7:45

things that you can do is show X

7:47

rays. Because X rays

7:50

don't have blood, they don't have gore. You

7:52

don't see bodies blown apart. You might see

7:54

fractured bone, but it's black

7:56

and white, and then anything that is

7:58

radio opaque. You see that, and suddenly

8:01

the snowstorm appears before you and they look like

8:03

little white dots everywhere, and

8:05

those are fragments of bullets. And that

8:07

is powerful when the jury looks at that, and

8:10

everybody knows their brain is in the

8:12

top part of their head, inside of their skull, and

8:14

you see it, you know, light

8:16

bulb goes off and said, oh my god, look

8:19

in the brain. You can see the little dots

8:22

where all of that the bullet fragment,

8:24

and just rip this body shreds. But

8:27

photographic evidence follows warning

8:31

some of this discussion is incredibly

8:33

graphic. In

8:36

that photograph, I'm looking at her left eye.

8:39

There's some clotted blood that you

8:41

see along the margin of her eye.

8:45

The blood that's in her mouth is

8:47

not an injury. It's blood

8:49

that's there because of the fractures

8:52

to the skull. It actually fractures.

8:54

The sinus booms and then the sinuses

8:56

bleed down the back of the throat passively.

9:00

Okay, And it almost looks like her tooth

9:02

is black, But that's actually blood. That's clauded

9:04

blood. Yes, there

9:08

are a lot of people that you know, want to turn

9:10

a blind eye to the horror of this. You

9:12

cannot escape it. There's

9:15

no way to. You know, Church this up

9:17

within the context of the graphic detail

9:20

lost the story, and you

9:22

know, people as desperately as

9:24

they want to turn away from it, you

9:27

have to stare at it. You have to stare

9:29

at it and assess it. You have to get past the

9:31

horror of it. But you

9:33

have to understand this. Every

9:37

person that died deserves

9:41

deserves to have their story told.

9:44

I think that it is unimaginable

9:46

for the family. Hearing

9:48

this graphic testimony from the corner,

9:51

and also hearing Joseph

9:53

Morgan's take on it, we forget

9:56

they too are human beings who are seeing

9:58

carnage and blood and bodies

10:01

so regularly. We assume

10:03

anybody who works in this space

10:06

get used to seeing in that level of gore. But

10:08

that's simply not the case here

10:12

Again, Special Prosecutor Angie

10:14

Kneppa, you have an

10:16

opinion as to whether or not her eye would have

10:18

been opened or closed at the time

10:20

that she was shot her eyes, because

10:24

it at least got part of her eyelids. I

10:26

believe her eyelids were mostly closed.

10:29

The fact that it didn't get the upper eyelid. It could

10:31

be you know, some people sleep with their eyes

10:34

slightly open. It could be that

10:37

heir eyes are slightly open. It could also be their eyes

10:39

are fully open. And it only got the bottom

10:41

lid, so it did

10:43

not go through the top eyelid.

10:46

That's correct. Okay. So

10:48

I can't tell technically if she

10:50

was asleep or awake. And did

10:52

you ultimately, well, can you tell us what

10:55

distance did you determine that was?

10:58

Because we could see stippling. That's

11:00

an intermediate gunshot wound.

11:03

Okay. And that intermediate again, is that three

11:05

inches to three fees ish rang

11:08

Yes? And do you have an opinion

11:10

as to the effect

11:12

that would have had on Hannah

11:15

Hazel? Yes? And what is that opinion?

11:17

She would have been immediately unconscious,

11:20

okay? And why do you say that the

11:23

bullet not only causes injury,

11:25

but there's also kinetic

11:28

energy that travels with the bullets. It's

11:31

shaking up the brain. It takes a lot

11:33

to break the bones in the skull

11:35

too. There's a lot of concussion trauma.

11:38

So not only is it damaging

11:40

her eye, but the brain is

11:43

damaged as well, and so she would

11:45

become unconscious. This is only

11:47

the description of the first gunshot.

11:49

The bullet ended up in the frontal lobe of

11:51

the brain. You can also see she's got

11:54

some blood coming from her left ear. That's

11:56

a sign that the bones inside the head,

11:59

especially the where your inner

12:01

ear is, is broken. Then you

12:03

bleed outside your ear. So that's what you're

12:05

seeing. Kneppa and Luman

12:07

go through each individual round,

12:10

all five shots and the damage

12:12

each bullet did to Hannah Hazel

12:14

Gilly's body. Here's

12:17

legal analyst Mike Allan. What

12:20

stands out to me is just the absolute

12:23

brutality of this thing. I

12:26

mean, it's stunning how

12:28

brutal it is. Shot in the face.

12:30

I mean, testimony about

12:33

a baby nursing at his mother's

12:35

breast and she's shot.

12:38

I mean, you think about Hannah laying

12:41

in bed with that child, and just

12:44

the pravity of

12:46

someone doing that. It's

12:49

really hard to imagine. All

12:53

in all, doctor Lumin extracted four bullets

12:55

from Hannah Hazel's head. The

12:58

fifth grazed her skull, creating a

13:00

and a partial bullet wound. During

13:02

testimony, Reporter James Pilcher

13:04

reported live from outside the courtroom.

13:09

Frankie was shot three times in the head earlier

13:12

Wednesday, Todd Fordner with the Oha

13:14

Bureau of Criminal Investigation finished

13:16

testifying about processing that crime

13:19

scene on Union Hill Road, saying

13:21

he found five spent shelf casings

13:23

in the couple's bedroom. Frankie

13:26

Rodin was lying in bed with Hannah Hazel Gilly

13:29

a pair of blue box of shorts the only

13:31

clothing he was wearing. They

13:33

were soaked with blood. Doctor

13:35

Luhman holds up a paper bag with this evidence

13:37

inside, but does not open it. She

13:40

then picks up a box. This

13:43

is our bullet box where we

13:45

put all of the projectiles in. I

13:48

have it labeled from the head for

13:52

Frankie and those

13:54

represent the projectiles that you recovered

13:56

from the head of Frankie Rodin on eighteen twenty

13:58

four f twenty sixteen. And

14:01

can you tell us did you notice any

14:04

differences or similarities between those projectiles

14:06

and the projectiles that you recovered from

14:09

Hannah Hazel Gilly. Yes, Frankie

14:12

was lying face up and was shot through the cheek,

14:15

left temple and ear. Hannah

14:17

Hazel was at his side facing him.

14:20

The shooter came into their room, facing the

14:22

left side of the bed and opened fire. Despite

14:26

the graphic nature of the work, at hand, there

14:28

were only positive reviews of Lumen's

14:30

testimony. Here again,

14:32

James Pulcher, I can

14:35

tell you, at least from the feedback

14:37

I've gotten from watching her,

14:40

that she has really a

14:42

lot of respect in the community for the respect

14:44

she's treated the victims in their bodies

14:47

and the autopsy and everything else. But

14:51

the next morning, it's not Lumen's testimony

14:53

that is making news. Legal

14:56

fireworks are upped in court as George

14:58

Wagner, the Force attorneys try to put to

15:00

sudden end to his trial and the Pike County

15:02

massacre. We

15:04

would ask for a mistrial based on gruesome

15:06

photos and then shown to the jury.

15:09

Photos are only irrelevant

15:11

and protive of a disputed issue.

15:17

George Wagner's defense attorney, John Parker

15:19

claims continuing to show the jury gruesome

15:22

photos of the crime scenes and autopsies

15:24

is inflammatory, specifically

15:26

since the actual facts of how the victims

15:28

died are not in question. We're

15:33

going to take a break. We'll be back in a

15:35

moment. Here's

15:44

Jeff speaking with James Pilcher. The

15:47

defense is asking for a mistrial. What do you make

15:49

of that? Is that it something that's valid? Could

15:51

they possibly get one They are

15:54

pulling every trick in the book

15:56

that they can't to try to get this to start

15:58

over, to delay it,

16:01

to get the jury mad, to do whatever

16:04

the latest thing. They don't want the prosecution

16:07

to be able to show the pictures up on the screen.

16:11

Here again, Joseph Morgan, what

16:14

is kind of out of left

16:16

field is the idea that the defense attorney

16:18

would ask for a mistrial based

16:21

on the nature of the photographs. Most

16:24

of the time that kind of stuff is handled

16:27

in pre trial motion. You

16:29

come to an agreement as to what

16:32

photography is going to be used, and in

16:34

the pre trial motions there'll

16:36

be a hearing. And they knew

16:38

this was coming. This is not

16:40

like this just fell from the heavens and they're unaware.

16:43

They know that these photographs are coming. So

16:46

I don't know how much of this was rooted

16:50

in legal practice and how much of its

16:52

rooted in theatress. It

16:57

appears that Judge Deering agrees with

17:01

the request for a mistrial denied. The

17:03

prosecution moves on to crime scene

17:05

three, the home where

17:07

Dana Rodin, Hannah Mae Rodin,

17:10

and Chris Rodin Junior were killed. The

17:14

prosecution recalled BCI Special

17:17

Agent Todd Fortner to the stand. Fortner

17:20

had already testified earlier in the trial

17:23

about evidence at Chris Senior and Gary's

17:25

trailer. He

17:28

took many of the photographs at Frankie

17:30

Roden's house as well. One

17:32

that caught the eye of both the prosecution and

17:35

defense was an open window on the backside

17:37

of the home. As you look

17:39

at State and Zibitt B one five, you

17:42

testified about that air conditioner that appeared

17:44

to have some grass on it out back. Can

17:46

you see that air conditioner in that picture? Yes,

17:49

just outside the window. The

17:51

back of Frankie Roden's home has two

17:53

windows. The open window

17:55

in questions, it's about five to six feet

17:58

up from the ground with two HVAC

18:00

units blow in. Interior

18:02

photos are shown next show

18:05

the jury where that pictures taken from and what

18:07

you're depicting in that picture. This again

18:09

from the doorway here looking into

18:12

the bedroom. You can see the clutter

18:14

and the open window. Here

18:17

Stephanie looking at these photographs

18:20

and picturing this room and where

18:22

these windows are. An interesting

18:24

detail too, I thought was that

18:27

there was a bathtub and they must have

18:29

been raising baby chicks, because

18:31

to keep them warm there were little wood chips

18:34

in the bathtub where the chicks were growing,

18:36

and right beside that there was,

18:39

you know, a toddler's pack and play, which

18:41

we've all seen before, just

18:44

kind of a haunting image against the

18:46

grizzliness that took place soon

18:49

after. Also, you know, it raises

18:51

the question there was so much stuff in and

18:53

around where the windows are. It

18:55

seems like it would have been very clumsy to get

18:57

through that window, specially agent

19:00

Todd Fortner. And when you initially

19:03

viewed that picture, did you

19:05

think it was unlikely that anybody

19:07

had come from that window? Yeah, so I thought it was less

19:09

likely that someone came in without disturbing

19:12

some of these items. However, it

19:15

was not impossible. Okay, So

19:17

clearly somebody could have come

19:19

through that window, but based on the way that

19:22

those items appeared, nothing

19:24

was knockover or disturbed or upside

19:26

down. Was that correct? Correct? He

19:29

gave it some thought and listened

19:31

very carefully, and he opined

19:34

that he didn't believe that it was

19:36

case. He said, it's it's not off the table, but

19:39

you know, the space is so tight

19:42

this window, you know that you would gain

19:44

access through and there is no

19:46

underlying area to kind

19:49

of leverage yourself up onto the window

19:51

seal. The

19:53

defense tries to drive a wedge between

19:55

the certainty of the prosecution and Fortner,

19:58

alluding to one Wagner who could have

20:00

fit through that window, admitted

20:03

murderer, Jake Wagner. You

20:06

prepared to report in this case, right, yes,

20:09

And in your report you discussed

20:12

looking for points of injury. Do you recall

20:14

that I do, And what is it you said

20:16

about that as a potential point of

20:18

interest, As I've already testified,

20:20

I said, with the items there inside the window,

20:23

I felt it was less likely to be a point of entry

20:25

because it's such a tight squeeze to get through

20:27

there and not disrupt those items. Even

20:29

though you said it was unlikely based

20:32

on your observations, was it impossible,

20:34

No, it was possible. Like I said, it would take

20:36

somebody smaller and more agile,

20:39

but not impossible. When

20:42

he said that, I went back and kind of reflectively

20:45

looked at the images of Jake, you know, back

20:47

during that period of time. On some level,

20:49

he's bulk here now, but back in sixteen

20:52

he was a smaller person. Jay

20:55

could have made through it back then, but I think it's highly

20:58

unlikely. There's another point

21:00

that we have to consider here, if you go through

21:02

a window, particularly when you have to leap up

21:04

to and kind of pull yourself through there, there would

21:06

be some remnant of you, potentially a much

21:08

higher probability of some remnant of you

21:11

left behind in that small space you're

21:13

trying to wiggle through. You

21:15

testify that you didn't do any

21:17

slabbing or DNA of that open

21:19

window area as part of your work out

21:22

there on that day. Is that correct? Correct? But

21:24

did you find out or do you know that later as

21:26

part of the investigation eventually that area was

21:28

slabbed for DNA, Yes it was.

21:32

There was no DNA and no fingerprints

21:34

recovered in or around the window. Every

21:38

contact leaves a trace, So everything that we do

21:41

physically within the construct

21:43

of a crime scene, if we touch

21:45

a surface, we're gonna leave some

21:47

element of ourselves behind, whether it's an

21:50

oily fingerprint, whether it's a bit of

21:52

fiber, whether it's a bit of touch

21:54

DNA which is shedding skin. And

21:57

to my way of understanding, they didn't find any

22:00

of that. The

22:03

next morning, another attempt by the

22:05

defense to shut down the trial. Here's

22:08

judge deering motion

22:11

was filed earlier this morning. Motion

22:14

number one eleven,

22:16

entitled motion for this mistrial.

22:24

Thursday began with another attempt by

22:26

Wagner's defense team to get a mistrial in

22:28

the case, but as he did Wednesday,

22:30

Judge Randy Dearing overruled that motion.

22:34

Here again, Mike Allen on why

22:36

the defense would file motions on back to

22:38

back days. They're making

22:40

a record. From what I understand, it was an

22:43

oral motion the day before yesterday.

22:45

It was put in writing yesterday

22:47

and filed and the judge heard the one

22:49

that is in writing today. It's all about

22:51

making a record in case there's an appeal

22:56

again, Joseph Scott Morgan. If

22:58

George s foul, it's

23:00

immediately going to go up on appeal. And

23:03

I can promise you this is going

23:05

to be a point which they're going to argue on appeal.

23:07

They're going to say these photographs were

23:09

so prejudicial, so over the top, that

23:13

it's swayed them in an inappropriate manner.

23:15

A pain in my client is some kind of monster.

23:18

Soon after the exchange, Hamilton

23:20

County Chief Deputy Coroner doctor

23:22

Karen Lohman returned to the stand,

23:25

Doctor Lowman, can you tell us what we are looking

23:27

at there? So this

23:29

is a side X ray of

23:32

Dana's head. You can see g has some fillings

23:34

in her teeth and she has

23:37

one, two, three, four, about six large

23:39

pieces of bullet and

23:41

bullet fragments in her head. Canepa,

23:45

seeing the graphic nature of the photo, pauses

23:48

for many awkward seconds. Luman

23:51

grimaces and looks down while Kinnepa decides

23:53

what to do. She

23:56

asked the judge to remove the photo from the

23:58

in room screen. I'm

24:00

gonna, can you minimizes, I'm

24:03

going to approach the exhibit with this next photo.

24:05

If that's okay with the court, I'm sor I'm

24:07

going to approach the victim with this next photel

24:11

From here on in, she only shows doctor

24:13

Luhman and the jury printed photos

24:15

of the autopsies. Doctor,

24:18

can you tell us when you did your examination

24:21

of Dana Rodin how many

24:23

gunshot wounds had she received? Five?

24:27

Matriarch Dana Roden was in a nightgown

24:29

in bed when she was shot. And

24:31

can you tell us where was gunshot

24:34

wound number one located

24:37

on the diagram? Number one is on the far

24:40

left. It looks like it's on the right

24:42

forehead. It's a little more on the side of the forehead,

24:45

It traveled across following a

24:47

relatively straight path to the left

24:49

side of her head, struck

24:51

the bone on the left side of her head, but did not exit,

24:54

and then fell insiderr skull to underneath

24:56

her brain and gunshot

24:58

wound number two is that located?

25:01

That is closer to the center of

25:03

the right forehead. Shot

25:05

three was similar The other

25:07

two grazed her skull and shattered her

25:09

jaw. And can

25:12

you tell us do you have an opinion where

25:15

the bullets and projectile

25:17

that you recovered from

25:20

Dana Roden? Was that consistent

25:23

with the bullets and projectiles that you removed

25:26

from Frankie Rodin and Hannah

25:28

Hazel Kelly. Yes, okay,

25:31

and inconsistent with

25:33

the bullets and projectiles that you recovered

25:35

from Chris Senior and Gary

25:37

Roden. Yes, that's correct. When

25:43

initial photos of Hannah me Rodin

25:45

in a body bag are presented to doctor

25:47

luhman Angi Kineppa immediately

25:49

draws attention to a tattoo. There

25:52

is what appears to be a tattoo close

25:55

to the underwear line or

25:57

the bikini line. And can you tell

25:59

us what those initials are? The

26:01

initials are EJ. W. Cure.

26:05

Stephanie had to may Roden on

26:07

her body. She has a little tattoo

26:10

with the initials E J W

26:13

on her hip. Those initials,

26:15

of course, are for Edward Jake

26:18

Wagner. That's Jake Wagner's

26:20

legal name, and it just paints a picture.

26:23

At one point she was deeply, deeply

26:25

in love with him.

26:30

This is a side view

26:33

of Hannah's head. You

26:35

can see that this long labigated

26:37

piece of metal and a shorter one there. Those

26:39

are the ear rings that we saw previously

26:42

in the previous picture. And

26:44

then you can see some small radiopaque

26:46

white pieces

26:49

of bullet in her head. And when

26:52

you conducted your examination of Hannah

26:55

road In, how many gunshot

26:57

wounds did you observe her to have too?

27:02

Here again, reporter James

27:04

Pilcher, Hannah was the main target

27:08

because she was the one holding up the

27:11

issues with the custody, and

27:13

yet she only got shot twice

27:15

and the rest were you know, Dana

27:18

got shot five times. It makes no sense.

27:21

Anname Roden was shot in the upper left

27:23

back of her head and behind her left ear

27:26

She was found resting facing away

27:28

from the door to her bedroom.

27:32

So if, for instance,

27:34

somebody comes in through here, this

27:37

individual sees

27:39

that person and

27:41

then turns away,

27:43

either instinctively to because

27:46

they see a gun in or to protect

27:48

the child that's lain and better with them.

27:51

Are the injuries in the pathways that

27:53

you saw took her head consistent

27:56

with that? Yes? Did you observe

27:58

the shirt to be in any certain position?

28:01

Yes? And what was that position? The

28:04

shirt was pulled up over the right brist

28:06

And did you actually

28:10

have some other abnormal finding when

28:12

you did the internal examination of Hannah

28:14

Roding or an additional

28:16

finding? Yeah, not necessarily abnormal, but yes,

28:18

additional findings. And what was that? One

28:21

of them was that she was lactating, and

28:24

the other was that her

28:27

uterus was enlarged because she'd

28:29

just given birth several days before, so

28:32

it takes a while for your uterus

28:34

to shrink back down, so I could tell

28:37

that she'd recently given birth. Back

28:44

in twenty sixteen, the weekend after

28:46

the murderers, Karen Lehman returned

28:48

to the Mark on Sunday after

28:50

spending an entire Saturday with the bodies

28:52

of Dana, Hannah Hazel and

28:55

Anime. Chris Junior

28:57

was the first body she examined that day.

29:00

The fifteen year old is found lying on his stomach

29:03

covered by a comforter. There

29:05

were four shots to the right side of his head

29:07

and face. And

29:10

is that consistent with the body being positioned

29:13

this way and somebody coming up and

29:15

shooting him from this side? Yes?

29:18

Yes, Did you

29:21

observe any exit wounds

29:23

to Christopher Junior? No? Did

29:27

you collect the projectile

29:29

that you recovered from within

29:32

his head? Yes? Okay, showing

29:34

you it's been Marcus dates exhibit K ninety

29:37

three if you can tell me what that is.

29:40

This is a bullet box labeled from

29:42

the head and it's holding all

29:44

of the bullets in one box that we collected

29:47

at all. Toops here

29:50

again, James Pilcher, seeing

29:52

the crime scene photos of Chris

29:55

Junior about may cry. I'm

29:58

a parent of a fifteen sixteen year old

30:00

and to see him just lying dead in bed

30:03

with a bullet hole in his forehead and

30:05

purple was just not

30:07

something I'd ever want to see again. That

30:10

afternoon, court adjourns for the week after

30:13

hours of grilling testimony about crime

30:15

scene. Three jurors

30:17

who will decide George Wagner's Gilbert innocence

30:20

have a lot to think about this weekend. Let's

30:25

stop here for another break. Monday

30:35

morning comes quickly for a tired panel

30:37

of jurors. Doctor

30:40

lumin arrives for her final day of testimony.

30:43

It's the final day bearing witness to the

30:45

most grizzly details of how an entire

30:47

branch of the family tree was chopped

30:49

off in one night. In a previous

30:51

episode, we analyzed Kenneth

30:54

Roden's crime scene, known as

30:56

crime Scene four, in depth,

30:58

but Karen Luman adds an additional detail

31:01

we had not heard about Kenny Roden's murder.

31:05

Do you have a fainting within a reasonable agree medical

31:08

certaty as to the cause of death

31:10

of Kennedyry? Yes? Hey,

31:12

what would that be? Duck her? It was a single gunshot

31:15

wound to the head. His eyes were closed

31:17

because the bullet went through his eyelids. This

31:20

is where we found the bullet. It

31:23

is a refrain she touched upon across

31:25

her testimony. James Pilcher

31:28

the moment said she could tell many of the victims

31:31

died in their sleep. It became apparent

31:33

looking at where the wounds were that it seemed

31:36

that many of them were shot multiple

31:38

times and never moved, never appeared

31:41

to have reacted to

31:43

other people in the house being shot as

31:45

well. Here's

31:49

Jeff speaking with Mike Gallon. It's

31:52

more detail than we've ever gotten about the brutality

31:55

of what happened to the Rodan family. And

31:57

you know, there didn't appear to be much of a

31:59

struggle, and she said that's not

32:01

normally the case. My

32:03

guess is that they're probably they probably were

32:06

asleep because I mean, if

32:09

you hear a gunshot, or if you see somebody

32:11

coming at you holding the gun or anything

32:14

at that time of night, I

32:16

think your suspicions would be raised if you

32:18

didn't have any defensive wounds and

32:21

nobody really resisted. Yeah,

32:23

it's it's hard to like picture it. I mean,

32:26

for sure to me points too that

32:29

Jake was not alone in shooting them,

32:31

like there had to have been more than one shooter. I mean, if

32:33

you think about if everyone was in bed,

32:35

if you go to Dana's house, it's Dana, Hannah, and

32:37

little Cress. So were

32:40

there three shooters at the same time, you

32:42

know, all counting down or

32:45

could there be another reason no one woke

32:47

up. They're

32:50

for getting further and further away from tying it

32:53

to the actual defendant. Here, we

32:56

really got to get to the beginning when

32:59

the plotting and planning and real conspiracy

33:01

took place. And

33:04

this is a fired bullet,

33:07

a forty caliber. So

33:10

the focus of testimony now is ballistics,

33:13

the bullets that were found at each of those four crime

33:15

scenes. It's part of a number

33:17

of experts in the state will be calling to

33:20

show the jury the evidence to tie it to

33:22

the Wagner family. They have to

33:24

show this because we learned today there

33:26

was no Wagner family members DNA

33:29

at any of those four crime scenes.

33:33

More on that next time. For

33:36

more information on the case and relevant photos,

33:39

follow us on Instagram at kat

33:41

Underscore Studios. The

33:44

Pikedon Masker is produced by Stephanie Leidecker,

33:46

Jeff Shane, Scott de Grau, Andrew

33:48

Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and

33:51

me Courtney Armstrong. Editing

33:54

and sound designed by Jeff Taw Music

33:57

by Jared Aston. The Pikedon

33:59

Maskers production of iHeart Radio and Katie's

34:01

Studios. For more podcasts from

34:03

iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio

34:06

app, Apple Podcasts,

34:08

or wherever you listen to your favorite

34:10

shows. Please

34:14

welcome Markite County Dogged Festival. Queen

34:18

Lord. I just thank you for bringing us all

34:20

together as a community.

34:25

Okay there

34:28

all over the house? Who could

34:30

have killed eight family members in

34:32

one mite. I lost my best

34:34

friends and I will never be the

34:37

same because of that day. Four

34:40

crime scenes, no DNA, no

34:42

witnesses. The killer left

34:44

those children laying in

34:46

their mother's blood. The

34:48

word that comes to mind is overkilled.

34:51

Who was the master mind? I'm

34:53

telling you it's a

34:56

I'm not sitting in prison. One

34:58

thing our lard. The

35:00

smaller the town, the bigger

35:03

the sacreds. Be

35:06

sure to watch our upcoming documentary,

35:08

The Pike County Murders of Family Massacre,

35:10

premiering on NBC Universal's

35:13

Oxygen Network and also streaming

35:15

on Peacock this Thanksgiving Day

35:17

weekend November twenty fourth and

35:19

November twenty fifth. Please check your local

35:21

listings and our hearts are with the Rodents

35:24

and the Gilly families.