0:04

Since Moscow police began investigating

0:06

the brutal murders of four University of Idaho

0:08

students at an off campus home on November

0:11

thirteen, they have claimed it was

0:13

a targeted attack. The

0:15

Leyta County Prosecutor doubled

0:17

down on those claims, saying investigators

0:20

believe one of the victims was the intended

0:22

target.

0:29

This is the Idaho Massacre a

0:33

production of KT Studios and iHeartRadio,

0:37

episode eight The Circus

0:39

of Murder Courtney

0:42

Armstrong, a television producer at KAT

0:44

Studios, with Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff

0:47

Shane, and Connor Powell, as

0:51

the mystery of the brutal murderers of Keille

0:53

Gonsalvez, Madison Mogan,

0:55

Xana Kernodle, and Ethan shape and

0:57

unfolded. The national spotlight on

0:59

the case grew brighter when

1:02

Brian Coburger was arrested at his parents'

1:04

home on December thirtieth. That public

1:07

spotlight intensified. The

1:11

newspaper headlines and breaking news alerts

1:14

for the criminologists turned killer practically

1:17

wrote themselves. Reporters,

1:20

TV anchors, crime writers and legal

1:22

analysts poured over the probable cause

1:24

Affidavid, laying out the case against

1:26

Coburger. As they flocked to Pennsylvania

1:29

and then Idaho to cover his extradition,

1:31

hearing, and first court appearance in Moscow.

1:34

The worldwide appetite for information about

1:37

the investigations seemed impossible

1:39

to satisfy. But before Coburger

1:41

even arrived in Idaho, Latta County

1:43

Judge Megan Marshall issued a non

1:45

dissemination order. The move

1:48

barred attorneys, law enforcement officials,

1:50

and anyone associated with the investigation

1:53

from talking about the case. Judge

1:55

Marshall defended the sweeping decree,

1:57

saying the gag order was needed to protect Brian

1:59

Coburger's right to a fair trial. Two

2:02

weeks later, Judge Marshall expanded the gag

2:04

order to include the families and lawyers

2:07

for the victims from speaking publicly. Journalists

2:10

were furious, and more than twenty media

2:12

organizations challenged the restrictions.

2:15

So too did the lawyer for Kley Gonsalvas's

2:18

family. Attorney Shannon

2:20

Gray, argued the gag order violated

2:22

the family's right to free speech and silence

2:24

the victim's family's voice while

2:27

those closest to the investigation were

2:29

barred from talking about the case. Public

2:31

demand for information only intensified.

2:34

Curious spectators and wannabe detectives

2:36

on social media became obsessed with the case,

2:39

and Brian Coburger tours

2:41

passed. The home on King Rhode in Moscow

2:43

became a regular occurrence. Chat

2:45

forums on websites like Reddit exploded

2:48

and its online community both fervently

2:50

followed the investigation and at times

2:52

inserted itself into the story, sifting

2:55

through the facts, speculation, and rumors

2:57

of the investigation. While the gag order

2:59

prevents leaks and has kept the pre trial

3:01

hearings orderly, a circus has developed

3:04

outside of the courtroom on social media

3:06

and chatforms like Reddit. From

3:08

a distance, the circus seems harmless,

3:10

but for any involved in trying the case,

3:12

the fear is the circus could seriously

3:14

impact the prosecution and trial

3:17

of Brian Coberger.

3:20

I was actually late to finding out

3:22

the story. I think it was on Thanksgiving.

3:25

My cousins were actually all talking about it at

3:27

Thanksgiving table, and I had

3:29

no idea that this aid honestly occurred.

3:32

By day. This anonymous redditor works

3:34

in a New York City office.

3:36

I started looking into it just on my own

3:38

through news articles, and then my cousin

3:41

actually suggested I look on Reddit

3:43

if I want to find the real deal.

3:45

But by night he's part of the hundreds of

3:47

thousands of people who flocked to sites

3:50

like Reddit to sift through the latest information

3:52

in the University of Idaho murders and

3:54

debate the many aspects of the Brian

3:56

Coberger investigation.

3:58

And I actually had never used Reddit, I even

4:01

know how to use it, how to find communities,

4:04

posts, etc. And then she

4:06

showed me one community,

4:09

and then I just got immediately

4:11

sucked in and went so deep into

4:13

every crevice of every theory

4:16

at that time and now can't get

4:18

enough.

4:21

In the immediate days and weeks following the gruesome

4:23

murders, the number of discussion groups

4:26

on websites like Reddit and Facebook exploded.

4:31

With no name suspects in the murder investigation,

4:34

internet sleuths began pouring over

4:36

the few details of the case. As

4:39

we previously discussed, some Internet

4:41

users incorrectly identified innocent

4:43

people and charged them on social media

4:45

with crimes they were innocent enough. Others

4:48

tried to find links between the few people randomly

4:50

caught up in the tragic events, such as

4:52

the food truck employees and the door

4:55

dash driver who delivered late night snacks

4:57

to Xana Kernodle. Even the personal

5:00

lives of the victims' families became fodder

5:02

for the chat forums. When

5:04

Xana Kernodle's mother, Kara, was

5:06

detained on November nineteenth on drug

5:09

related charges, many on the

5:11

Internet tried to link her to the murders.

5:13

Here's the anonymous Reddit user speaking

5:16

with producer Jeff Shane.

5:20

People are invested in the story. They wanted to go

5:23

longer, and like, I can't help but like

5:25

read some of these comments

5:27

and like see some justification

5:30

in it. It's kind of like the saying where

5:32

there's smokeler's fire, and so everyone kind

5:34

of latches onto everything. So

5:36

whether it's that Uber driver that talked

5:39

about the house to someone that combined

5:41

with the fact that a couple of their

5:43

parents were drug addicts or were

5:45

arrested on drug charges, that

5:48

maybe some of them seemed on drugs and police

5:50

videos when they were when police had

5:52

to show up for noise complaints,

5:55

and so then you strain all these individual

5:57

things together. But then the fact

5:59

that Brian as an ext drug addict, So

6:01

then I don't know, like it's hard

6:03

to make sense of all of that, and everything kind of seems

6:06

like a coincidence one way or the

6:08

other, that maybe Brian was

6:10

maybe it was drugs. Maybe Brian

6:12

was involved because it was involving

6:15

drugs, that's one way to make the connection.

6:17

Or maybe because it was drugs and serious

6:20

drugs and their parents that this is like

6:22

a cartel and the kids

6:24

had to pay for something the parents did. I

6:26

mean, you could just go so crazy, but

6:29

still kind of plausible.

6:33

I'm curious what your answer is, why this

6:36

case, Why do you think you're so invested

6:39

in it?

6:40

You know, it's really interestingly,

6:43

I don't know. My first thought about why I was interested

6:46

in it is because it

6:48

feels like it could happen to

6:51

anyone in a college town like that when

6:53

you hear on reddite people being like, oh,

6:56

it's a huge party house. Oh

6:58

they didn't lock the door. Okay,

7:01

but we didn't lock the door either, And

7:03

there were strangers in all the time,

7:06

you know, eight and out. You didn't

7:09

know who anyone could be,

7:11

if they were supposed to be there, if they weren't, And

7:13

so I think part of it is

7:15

around the fact that it could just

7:17

happen to anyone.

7:22

When Brian Kolberger then an unknown

7:24

twenty eight year old criminology student,

7:27

was arrested on December thirtieth, nearly

7:29

seven weeks after the murders. The chat

7:31

forums responded with a flurry of reactions.

7:36

When they made the arrest of Brian

7:39

end of December. It's kind of

7:41

like the Reddit community was kind of like

7:43

pissed, not whether or not at

7:45

that time it was him or

7:47

not, but that kind of their rogue

7:50

investigation was over. So

7:53

the boards went quiet for a while right

7:56

after New Year's and

7:59

then I think think it was when the aff and

8:01

David came out, when

8:03

the list of items that they seized or his house

8:06

came out. Then it reignited. Everyone

8:08

kind of lit a fire into everyone's ass to

8:11

challenge some more concrete

8:13

information about him.

8:17

Here's Jeff and Stephanie.

8:20

Since Coburger's arrest, sites like Reddit and

8:22

TikTok have poured over every detail

8:24

of his life and his possible connection to the victims.

8:27

And after Kaylee's father

8:29

suggested that there may in fact have been

8:31

a connection between Coburger and

8:33

his daughter, many people online

8:35

speculated that Coburger was literally

8:38

stalking Kaylee and that maybe

8:40

that was the motive for the murder.

8:41

Yeah stuff. One poster speculated that Kaylee

8:44

or Madison met Coburger at the Mad Greek,

8:46

the restaurant they worked at downtown, saying,

8:49

didn't Kaylee and Madison work at a

8:51

vegan restaurant? Isn't he vegan? And for

8:53

the record, we've said in the past Mad Greek,

8:56

where they worked, is a pizza shop, not a vegan

8:58

restaurant, and the owner has public said

9:00

there is no record of Coburger ever eating

9:02

there, but that has not stopped the online rumor

9:04

mill.

9:05

Others also continued the debate about

9:07

Coburger's possible motive, saying

9:10

that Ethan and Keiyley were just in the wrong

9:12

place at the wrong time, and that maybe

9:14

Madison and Xana were the real targets

9:17

since Coburger actually went to their

9:19

bedroom. Again, so much of this

9:21

is just speculation.

9:22

But through all these posts, one thing is clear.

9:25

Uninformed theories become facts, and misinformation

9:28

spreads like wildfire.

9:33

Everyone becomes a lawyer. You don't have

9:35

to prove that he's innocent, you just have

9:37

to prove that he's not guilty. And

9:39

so with that mentality, everyone

9:42

is just looking for every single hole that

9:44

they can anywhere, whether

9:47

it's cell phone tower pings that

9:49

put him put him there thirteen

9:51

times, but kind of cell phone

9:54

tower ping from twenty five miles

9:56

away, which would still put him where he

9:58

was at home. When the police put up the original

10:01

request or the identification of the

10:03

Hyundai, they said it was like twenty

10:06

ten or to a twenty thirteen model.

10:09

Then why all of a sudden did they

10:11

figure out it was a twenty fifteen model

10:13

and it was actually Brian's And

10:16

how can an expert get this twenty

10:18

ten to twenty thirteen classification wrong?

10:21

Then there's another thing that they're poking

10:23

holes in around the

10:26

sheath, And like the touch DNA,

10:29

it went to a lab in Idaho

10:32

first and nothing was found

10:34

apparently, and then it was transferred

10:36

to a lab in Texas. That's where they

10:38

found the touch DNA

10:41

that matched Brian's.

10:43

And whether or not that's just because

10:45

it's a better lab, or did

10:47

police tamper with it during transit

10:50

frame Brian doing that.

10:54

I've never read that that even the sheaf

10:56

got transferred. Is that officially true?

10:58

Or so? That's think with this whole

11:01

Reddit thing is when you read

11:03

seventy theories about something

11:06

and you can find yourself believing every single

11:08

one. You can't. I

11:10

can't keep track of honestly, what

11:12

is real and what is not, and what's confirmed

11:15

or not. It just all gets jumbled

11:18

in. So then if you have a bunch of potentially

11:20

true facts, and

11:23

you can string them together in any any

11:25

coordinated effort, you can make

11:27

yourself believe anything.

11:32

It doesn't really matter what's true or not

11:34

true. It just matters if you get

11:36

the most up votes.

11:37

I guess, yeah, yeah, seriously, if you get the most

11:39

up votes, or if it's the most sensational

11:42

of all the facts that I read that day,

11:44

I'll remember that fact, and then when I

11:46

read a new fact, I'll compare it to that, and

11:49

I can string them together and make myself

11:51

believe Brian's wrongly being held right

11:53

now.

11:54

What do you think happened? He did it, but why

11:56

and what are the circumstances.

11:58

I think he was obsessed with one of them. I

12:00

don't know which one it was, Whether it's Maddie

12:03

or Kaylee, I don't know. I

12:06

think it is a lot simpler, which I think

12:08

is also why people are trying to grasp for

12:10

straws with all these other firefetch theories.

12:13

I think it was obsessed with one of them. I kind

12:15

of believe maybe one of them at a restaurant

12:17

they were working at, and then

12:19

stalk them. And then I don't know

12:22

what the motive would be that night, because

12:24

then it gets weird with all the other people in the house.

12:27

The one thing I will say, just

12:29

what I keep saying, I think it's simple, But

12:32

then I'm like, with all those people in the

12:34

house, how could one person have done

12:36

it? And then like, was he

12:38

maybe.

12:39

Just a getaway car?

12:40

But do you see how I'm spirally from something

12:43

very simple I just believed, And

12:45

I can't stay on that very

12:47

simple fact because then it does

12:49

just get complicated. When everything first

12:51

happened, everyone was obsessed with this door dash. Now

12:53

then we got the victim, then

12:57

had Brian as the

12:59

potent, and now everyone's

13:02

gotten so far down so many

13:04

rabbit holes. Why have we forgotten about

13:06

this door dash man? And like it hasn't

13:09

been a topic of conversation when

13:11

it feels like if he was there four

13:13

minutes or seven minutes before everything

13:15

started, that seems really like

13:18

tight timing.

13:22

Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in

13:24

a moment. This

13:33

far reaching and endless public debate where

13:35

information is twisted and distorted is

13:37

one of the main reasons Lada County

13:39

Judge Megan Marshall initially instituted

13:42

and expanded the gag order surrounding the

13:44

case. Both Coburger's attorneys

13:46

and the prosecution support the gag order

13:49

to protect Coburger's right to a fair trial.

13:51

Six months after Coburger's arrest, the court's

13:54

hurt emotion in June by a coalition

13:56

of media organizations to lift the gag

13:58

order.

14:00

The media coalition was fighting for the

14:03

non dissemination order to be altered in

14:05

an effort to be able to report more of the facts

14:07

of this case.

14:08

Wendy Olsen, an attorney representing

14:10

journalists, argued the gag order leads

14:12

to rampant speculation and removing

14:15

it would improve the coverage of the case, adding

14:18

that there were other tools the legal system

14:20

could use to protect a defendant's right to

14:22

a fair trial. This includes moving

14:24

the trial to a different city or asking

14:26

potential jurors if they are willing to be impartially

14:28

in the case. The judge dismissed those

14:30

ideas complicated, time consuming,

14:33

and costly. Shannon Gray,

14:35

an attorney for the Gonsalvest family also

14:37

pushed the judge to lift the restrictions,

14:40

saying he should be able to speak for Keiley's

14:42

family. The judge, however, seemed

14:44

unlikely to ease the restrictions during

14:47

the six hour hearing. The media coalition

14:50

also requested that cameras be allowed in the courtroom

14:52

for the trial, and argued that media

14:54

coverage and publicity in and of itself

14:57

is not prejudicial. However,

14:59

Cobacker's attorneys pushed back on the

15:01

request, saying that past descriptions

15:03

of Coburger published in print as

15:05

quote cold and like a demon, and

15:08

video clips of him blankly staring forward

15:10

in court could prejudice potential

15:12

jurors against Coburger. Leida

15:15

County Judge Joe Judge

15:17

said he would think about the motions and would

15:19

issue a written order in the days to come.

15:23

Gag orders, while rare, are often

15:25

used in high profile cases, like in the

15:27

Half Bay Moon murder investigation and

15:29

the jodiariastrial, or

15:31

any case where the national spotlight burns

15:33

bright.

15:34

The personal investment is interesting. I mean

15:37

I even see it on comment boards and

15:39

stuff like that. People are so interested.

15:42

We had this interest in

15:44

it from the start before Brian

15:46

Kolberger's name is associated with the case

15:48

right because it was this killing

15:52

in a small town for college

15:54

students at the precipice of

15:57

beginning their lives, and that in

15:59

and of itself, we've created drama around

16:01

the case before mister Kulberker's name

16:03

came into it.

16:05

Kirk Nurmi was Jodiarius his defense

16:07

lawyer. In twenty thirteen, she was

16:09

tried and convicted of murdering her ex boyfriend

16:11

Travis Alexander. Her trial

16:14

remains a cautionary tale of what can

16:16

go wrong when a circus like atmosphere

16:18

is allowed to develop around a high profile

16:20

trial. Cheers erupted as.

16:23

Soon as look

16:26

back. Now we're at the ten year anniversary

16:28

of the area's verdict, and you

16:31

know, you can see pictures of people crowding

16:33

the sidewalk between the court buildings

16:36

just to be there for the verdict.

16:41

History is full of high profile murder

16:43

investigations and trials that turn into

16:45

public spectacles. The Jodiaria's

16:48

trial surpassed almost all of them because

16:50

it was one of the first significant social media

16:52

events of the social media era. At

16:55

first, the case received very little attention

16:57

outside of Arizona, despite the sensational

17:00

details.

17:03

Travis Alexander was found dead

17:05

in his shower. He was shot in the face,

17:08

stabbed twenty seven times, and

17:10

his throat was slit from ear to ear.

17:15

Friends of Travis Alexander found his

17:17

mutilated body in his apartment after he

17:19

failed to show up to work. It

17:22

was a gruesome murder scene. Among

17:25

the evidence police recovered from the site

17:27

was a digital camera with sexually explicit

17:29

photos of Arius and Alexander from

17:32

the day he was murdered. The final

17:34

shot was of him bleeding profusely

17:36

in the bathroom. Investigators

17:38

also found a bloody palm print and

17:40

DNA belonging to Jodiarius. Later

17:43

in the summer, Arius was arrested in charge

17:45

with murder. The first interest in the case

17:47

only appeared when Jodyarius gave a few

17:49

jailhouse interviews.

17:51

No jury is going to convict me. Why not?

17:54

Because I'm innocent and you can mark my words on that

17:56

one.

17:56

No Jerry will convict me.

18:01

But even the initial interest following Jodi

18:04

Aarres's declaration of innocence on TV

18:06

was minor compared to the current fascination

18:08

with the University of Idaho murders.

18:11

It's a little different than the Coburger situation,

18:13

and it wasn't quite in the headline the way Colberger

18:16

was. I mean, you think about Coburger the

18:18

murder, so his name wasn't associated

18:20

with it yet, of course, but those murders

18:23

in Moscow, being in a college down

18:25

when it was a who done it certainly

18:27

caught the attention of the nation before any

18:29

arrests were made. But Coolburgers

18:31

was right from the start when these bodies

18:33

were found, the manhunt was

18:36

underware. The media got onto the man hunt

18:38

and certainly was there all

18:40

throughout his apprehension his

18:42

arrest. There's a huge media

18:45

presence in this case from the geta.

18:48

Because of this intense public interest.

18:50

Every minor police announcement or court

18:52

appearance by Coburger is followed,

18:54

reported on, and heavily scrutinized.

18:57

This interest, however, could potentially impact

18:59

Cooberg to a fair trial.

19:03

If I were to file a pre trial

19:05

motion in the area's trial, I

19:07

would walk into court and walk

19:10

out like it was John Smith. No

19:12

one would care. When Colberger files

19:14

emotion and they have a court

19:16

hearing, everybody's going to care. And

19:18

that's the distinctive, and.

19:20

That makes it harder because no one likes

19:22

to do their job under a microscope.

19:24

No one likes to do their job under a microscope

19:26

because it it just becomes more of a

19:28

production. It alters the court of public

19:31

opinion.

19:31

Right, this unique and intense

19:33

interest by the media and the public has

19:36

the potential to alter the jury pool.

19:40

Ultimately, all these things are going to be in the headlines,

19:43

and they are ultimately going to be things that

19:45

will be of consequence when vordaire

19:48

happens, when the ultimately begin to sit the jury.

19:51

So, for example, this motion requesting

19:53

DNA, right, if I were to followed

19:55

the similar motion during areas a prospected

19:58

jury would not have known about that. More than

20:00

likely in this case that might not

20:02

be true. And so it's

20:05

not the microscope so much

20:07

as is the publicity and

20:09

how that will infect

20:11

a potential jury because ultimately,

20:14

you think about it, think about it, what the

20:17

rubber meets the road a trial, not in

20:19

all these different circumstances, right,

20:22

the rubber meets the road at trial. So

20:24

when you have publicity engaging

20:27

from the get go, from before

20:29

a suspect is identified,

20:32

opinions for potential jurors begin to

20:34

form.

20:34

It's impossible to fully circumvent

20:37

those preconceived notions. Is that what you're saying, right.

20:40

It can be, And it also raises

20:42

the prospect of covert jurors.

20:45

Let's say somebody decides they know Cobird's

20:47

being framed or they know he's guilty,

20:50

they could get on that panel and dodge

20:53

their way into a trial, or

20:55

if they wanted to be on the panel

20:57

in hopes of stinking fame.

21:00

And so that's why I think the difference

21:02

is so huge, Jeff. But if you think

21:04

about the dynamics of where the

21:06

rubber meets the road, that jury, that

21:09

publicity and Coburger began

21:12

from the discovery of the murders makes things

21:14

qualitatively different.

21:16

How did you as a public defender

21:18

and how do you think Coburger's attorneys will

21:21

combat that? I mean, certainly the

21:23

jury is not supposed to take that into account,

21:25

but how can they.

21:26

Not, right, And there's no jury

21:28

there, So there's this massive public

21:31

and the public to consume the information

21:33

before they ever become jurors

21:35

or potential jurors. Right, So you know,

21:37

there's a lot of things I think that are going

21:39

on at this point in the case

21:41

of his attorneys, and because

21:44

the death penalty is the specter that looms

21:46

over this case. Really, what his attorneys

21:48

are doing now are tasked with not only

21:51

investigating the case and challenging

21:54

the evidence that the state is bringing forward

21:57

in their effort to convict mister Colberger

21:59

of murder. They are looking at

22:02

investigating his life from conception

22:04

to the day of his rest

22:07

so they can create a case for mitigation. And

22:09

while this is going on, of course, they

22:11

have to make this do

22:14

all this, I guess, with the specter of the presumption

22:16

of guilt in the court of public opinion

22:19

and trying to fight against that, trying

22:21

to fight the evidence of the work.

22:25

Because Coburger's case, like Jodiarius

22:28

Is, involves the potential for the death

22:30

penalty, Coburger's lawyers must

22:32

work to both build a defense and also

22:34

an argument against the death penalty

22:37

if he is convicted. The intense

22:39

public interest makes defending Coburger

22:41

challenging.

22:46

Ultimately, they're going to

22:48

be fighting this presumption of guilt, of

22:50

course, and they're going to want to do everything they

22:52

can to collect all the evidence. You

22:54

know, we see that they're going after the DNA.

22:57

They believe the DNA might be exploratory

22:59

means favorable to their clients. So

23:01

they're going to go after those things, and they're

23:04

going to go after other things, like in

23:06

terms of building a case for life, They're

23:08

going to go after school records, They're going to

23:10

go after everything in his past

23:13

that might be help shed some

23:15

light on if in fact he did

23:17

commit this case, why a jury should

23:19

grant him wife. So there's really two prongs

23:22

that are going on here, and it certainly made much more

23:24

difficult without media spector

23:26

because anybody that could maybe

23:28

be helpful to mister Colberger probably

23:31

too excited about coming forward because

23:34

of that media spector being involved

23:36

in the case. Because you know, a

23:38

death penalty case is something that automatically

23:41

goes up to the US Supreme

23:43

Court if a sentence of death is imposed,

23:45

they are going to need to be very vigilant

23:48

in the defense they provide mister Colberger.

23:51

And that is on two fronts, both for

23:53

life and for confronting

23:55

the evidence. Presenting a defense

23:57

in a case like this, in the death penalty case

24:00

is not a job for the timid.

24:02

I mean, you have to go forward in

24:04

the face of all this vitriol against

24:07

your client and go forward and seek

24:09

out that exculpatory information, So

24:12

they're going to do that. We've seen that they are,

24:14

you know, in terms of the preliminary hearing,

24:17

they or seeking the surviving roommates

24:19

testimony.

24:22

By the time Jody Arius went to trial, four

24:24

years after murdering Travis Alexander,

24:27

interest in the case had grown, but it

24:29

exploded once the jerry was selected

24:31

and the trial began.

24:33

When Jody Arius finally

24:36

reached trial in twenty thirteen, it

24:38

was a case that had been going on for years

24:41

and the publicity was comparatively

24:43

small before the trial. People

24:45

tend to think about her trial as being

24:47

a huge sensation, and it was,

24:50

but it wasn't a huge sensation really

24:53

until it began. He had given

24:55

those interviews with ABC,

24:57

Inside Editions, et cetera. The Oldburger

25:00

case is a media sensation from the start.

25:03

So ultimately, when they get to the point

25:05

is that they are picking the jury, it's not

25:07

going to be whether or not they

25:11

the jury has heard anything about the case.

25:13

Of the potential jury numbers have hurt anything about

25:15

the case. It's whether they formed judgments

25:17

about the case that cannot be altered. There are

25:19

people out there now who

25:22

have heard the case, have seen what they've

25:24

seen and believe that he is guilty.

25:27

There might be people that believe that he is

25:29

longly charged. And what you need

25:31

to do when you're searching out a jury

25:33

to find people that are not formally

25:36

held in the belief and is that are open to hearing

25:39

the evidence. Because right now, let's

25:41

say that the evidence of the public

25:43

knows is you know, just a scant

25:46

portion of what is known

25:48

to the police, the authilities, and

25:50

presumably the defense attorneys.

25:52

That's an interesting point that we think

25:55

we know everything and we know

25:57

just probably a fraction, is what you're saying.

25:59

Yeah, I would say generally speaking, the

26:01

public probably now is about ten percent of

26:03

the actual evidence it's really going

26:05

on in the case.

26:09

Let's stop here for another break.

26:20

With so much of the information and evidence

26:22

still yet to be made public, the Idaho

26:24

judicial system is trying to combat

26:27

what will likely be a massive cultural event.

26:30

When Colberger goes to trial. It

26:32

is going to be a lot like the Area's

26:34

trial when it became more popular in

26:36

the public. Zite, guys, I mean, if

26:38

cameras are allowed in the courtroom, obviously

26:41

we are going to see every

26:43

bit of movement in

26:45

the courtroom. We're going to see

26:48

everything that surrounds the trial

26:50

outside of the trial. You know, we're

26:52

going to see packed courtrooms, We're going

26:54

to see people standing outside. I think when

26:56

you, mister Kolberger did his case

26:59

reach trial, you're going to see that kind of mentality,

27:02

that kind of It becomes a trial

27:04

in the courtroom as best as you can, but it

27:07

becomes a cultural event as well.

27:13

Jodiaris was ultimately convicted of murder

27:15

and sentenced to life in prison, but many

27:17

legal analysts believe the circus surrounding

27:20

the trial impacted the prosecution's

27:22

ability to secure the death penalty.

27:24

As someone who's been in it and has now

27:27

removed from it, is that okay you

27:29

think? Or is that an unhealthy interest

27:31

that we as a society have.

27:33

It's hard to say, but I hate to see

27:36

trials become sporting events, right, and

27:38

justice has to prevail more than more

27:41

than anything, right, And we just you

27:43

know, we see people that offer

27:45

testimonies under scrutiny, judges

27:48

under scrutiny for having done nothing.

27:50

It becomes closer to public stoning, doesn't

27:52

it. When we expose and attack

27:55

people for their involvement in these cases.

28:00

Here again, Jeff and.

28:01

Stephanie Jody Aaris's

28:03

trial started on December tenth, twenty twelve,

28:06

and in the scheme of things, that was the infancy stage

28:08

of social media. Sure, read It and Twitter existed,

28:10

but people didn't use them like they do today.

28:13

Makes you wonder what the online community would

28:15

have done to that case if it happened today.

28:18

And of course Jody Arius was found guilty

28:20

for murder, but there really was this pitchfork

28:23

mentality back then, and it probably

28:25

would have been much more intense today. In twenty

28:27

twenty three.

28:29

With so much at stake, including Coburger's

28:31

right to a fair trial, the presiding

28:33

judge during Coburger's hearings appeared

28:36

unwilling to remove the gag order. However,

28:39

nearly seven months after Coburger

28:41

was arrested, and in response to the motion

28:43

to ease the gag order, Judge Joe

28:46

Judge did agree to loosen the non

28:48

dissemination order.

28:49

Prosecution and defense attorneys can now

28:51

speak on some matters related to

28:53

the case.

28:54

The families of the four victims are still allowed

28:56

to speak publicly, but their lawyers

28:59

remain barred from top Reddit,

29:01

along with several other social media websites,

29:03

has tried to clean up some of the most outrageous

29:06

group chats. The subreddit Brian

29:08

Coberger's Girls, which was known for discussions

29:11

about Coburger's skincare routine

29:13

and fawning posts about how hot the

29:15

twenty eight year old is, was banned for

29:17

repeatedly violating Reddit's code

29:19

of conduct. Despite

29:21

this small change, millions of true grime

29:23

enthusiasts and would be crime solvers continue

29:26

to dissect and debate every aspect

29:29

of the murders on social media and in public

29:31

forums across the country. More

29:37

on that next time. For

29:40

more information on the case and relevant photos,

29:43

follow us on Instagram at kat

29:45

Underscore Studios. The

29:47

Idaho Mascer is produced by Stephanie Leidecker,

29:50

Jeff Shane, Connor Powell, Chris

29:52

Bargo, Gabriel Castillo, and

29:55

me Courtney Armstrong. Editing

29:58

and sound designed by Jeff Toi. Music

30:01

by Jared Aston. The

30:03

Idaho Massacre is a production of iHeart Radio

30:05

and Katie's Studios. For

30:07

more podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio

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app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

30:12

listen to your favorite shows.

30:17

I'm Diana. You may know as Body Moving, My

30:19

Friend and I John Green were featured in

30:22

the Netflix documentary Don't f with Cats.

30:24

On our new podcast, True Crimes of John

30:26

and Deiana were turning our online investigative

30:29

skills to some of the most unexplained, unsolved,

30:32

and most ignored cases.

30:35

Please say.

30:35

Thirty three year old bride Again was shot dead,

30:38

gunned down in front of his two year old daughter.

30:40

Detectives confirmed that it was a targeted

30:43

attack.

30:43

It appears to be an execution style of

30:45

assassination.

30:46

This is very active, so we have to be careful.

30:49

I've heard that there's a house and have some

30:51

bodies in the basement.

30:52

I knew.

30:53

I just knew something was wrong.

30:55

Maybe there's something more sinister at play

30:57

than just one young girl going missing.

31:00

If you know something, heard

31:02

something, Please it's

31:04

never too late to.

31:05

Do the right thing.

31:07

This is True Crimes with John and Deianna, the

31:10

production.

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Of KT Studios and iHeartRadio.

31:14

Justice is something that takes

31:16

different shapes or formed.