0:00

Welcome to The piked In Massacre, a production of

0:02

iHeartRadio and Katie Studios.

0:05

The only way I can really describe

0:07

it is this is orchestrated.

0:09

If you orchestrate something that goes to planning,

0:14

everybody understands their position

0:16

in the orchestra. They understand what

0:19

notes to hit. They have a specific

0:21

purpose and a job. They know the area

0:23

and they know the

0:26

prey. They know

0:28

the nature of these individuals. Hell, they know

0:30

where their homes are. They know where security

0:32

cameras are. They know what they have to defeat

0:35

to get past these and whether it be locks

0:37

timing well if at the bedtime.

0:40

They know all of this. That's why this is

0:42

so shocking when

0:44

you begin to think about it, is the level

0:46

of orchestration involved to pull this thing

0:49

off. This

0:52

is the piked In Massacre. Returned to Pike County,

0:55

Season two, Episode

0:57

four, The Houses on Union Hill

0:59

Road. I'm Courtney

1:01

Armstrong, a television producer at Katie

1:03

Studios with Stephanie Ledecker and Jeff

1:06

Shane. Over two hundred investigators

1:08

and police officers have contributed so

1:10

far to this ongoing investigation. Today,

1:12

they say they received eight hundred eighty three

1:14

tips conducted four hundred sixty five

1:17

interviews, did thirty eight search warrants,

1:19

and sixty cyber extractions. Without

1:21

question, this has been by four of the

1:23

longest most complex and labor

1:26

intensive investigation the Ohio Attorney

1:28

General's Office has ever undertaken.

1:31

As an investigator, I've worked any

1:34

number of mass killings. I've never

1:36

covered anything autists. That's corner

1:38

Distinguished professor and criminal forensics

1:41

expert Joseph Morgan. It is

1:43

not a normal thing to walk

1:45

into a house and seeablood mass It's

1:47

something that borders only apocalyptic

1:51

from the outset. The year magnitude of the case

1:54

posed huge investigative hurdles for the

1:56

Pike County Sheriff's Office. Pike County,

1:58

it's a rural county. Of course, they

2:00

don't have a lot of money. It's not a judgment, it's

2:02

just the reality of it. When you begin to think

2:04

about those detectives

2:07

that were from this little

2:09

area there for Pike, you know, from Pike

2:11

County Shaf's apartment, it's something they'd

2:13

never be more on witness too. It

2:16

leads to limitations and your ability to

2:18

processing. So it is

2:21

a herculean undertaking

2:23

for police investigators. And

2:26

less than a month into the investigation, authorities

2:28

made would seem to many like an unusual

2:30

decision. Work has already begun to move

2:32

the homes where eight members of the Rodent family

2:35

were found shot to death last month in Pike

2:37

County, Ohio. The judge has authorized his

2:39

people to load the four mobile homes and

2:41

transport them about four and a half miles north

2:44

to the investigation command center in Waverley

2:46

to preserve the crime scenes. Well,

2:48

we talked with Joseph Morgan. We looked over aerial

2:51

photos of the crime scenes before the

2:53

mobile homes were removed. They're

2:55

all we have to go on as no crime scene photos

2:57

have been released. There's a mock ups showing

3:00

the placement of the properties on our Instagram.

3:02

The first few images were of the property where

3:05

Chris Senior and Frankie Roden's trailers

3:07

were located. Jeff got Morgan's

3:09

thoughts on Pike County's relocation strategy.

3:12

Looking at these aerial photos while we're talking about it.

3:14

What really struck me They lived

3:16

in trailers, but these look more like homes

3:19

that are in the ground that aren't going anywhere. To

3:21

me, that, like the crime scene is the most important

3:24

part, and moving them like that seems like this was

3:26

that would not be so easy. After the

3:28

termination of this case and when it's finally

3:31

these cases are all adjudicated, I'm

3:33

going to want to study this from a crime scene perspective

3:36

because I want to learn how they did this. I

3:38

want to teach this because if they did

3:40

it effectively, it's something that somebody

3:42

could write an academic paper on. I mean,

3:44

it's it's that big a deal. If you look

3:47

at this image, you would have to detach

3:49

that mobile home completely, and

3:52

it's probably a foundational

3:54

structure, so it's at least

3:57

has a cinder block foundation

3:59

that is built around the things

4:01

that they can build a stick, build

4:03

the structure around it, and then attach it to the

4:06

mobile home. Just the sheer

4:08

logistics of detaching

4:11

this thing from the ground. I've certainly

4:13

you never worked a case that involved

4:16

multiple mobile homes that

4:19

where people had been in dwelling for

4:21

years, that are plumbed

4:24

and have electricity run to them and

4:26

have foundations, and that they're

4:28

just lifted up off the ground and taken

4:31

from there. This is a monumental

4:33

task in or facilitate this. You've

4:35

got to make sure that nothing is going to be disrupted

4:38

in transit because everything

4:40

is relative. It's relative. There's

4:43

distance relationships, there's

4:45

time relationships, because things

4:48

degrade, they change. We've

4:50

got bullet holes. Well, this

4:52

is not like going into a static home. It's

4:54

moving back and forth as it's

4:57

kind of going down the road. So it's shifting.

4:59

Well, what if it shifts just a

5:01

few millimeters relative

5:03

to if you're trying to pull trajectories

5:06

on these bullets. So to that end,

5:09

it really gives you pause to think,

5:12

why was it that you wanted to move it from this location?

5:16

By any measure. Investigating the Rodent murders

5:18

was a massive undertaking. Eight

5:20

bodies spread out across four bloody crime

5:22

scenes, and soon after the victims

5:24

were found, Ohio Bureau of Criminal

5:27

Investigation and FBI agents were

5:29

called in to help lead the charge. But

5:31

according to Joseph Morgan, before the Rodent's

5:34

mobile homes were moved, it was imperative

5:36

that authorities analyze the scenes in their

5:38

original states, viewing that

5:40

body in the context and the environment in

5:42

which it is found. That's where the tale

5:44

is told at that point, and you

5:47

have to allow the body to tell you

5:49

that story. Maybe the person was face

5:51

down they'll face down in bed there in a prom

5:54

position. Someone walked

5:56

up behind them, maybe when they were unaware, maybe

5:58

they were sleeping, and a close range they put

6:00

a single round into the back of their head. Well,

6:03

I don't want to move or manipulate

6:05

the body until it's time to remove

6:07

it from the scene, after it's been measured and

6:11

examined for things like postmortem

6:14

changes and documented photographically.

6:16

I don't want to change the body at

6:19

all. I want to see what the body

6:21

is telling the current. The

6:24

body is the biggest piece of evidence that

6:26

you have, because that is, obviously,

6:29

in this case, the target of what the individuals

6:31

were striving for. That's where the most

6:33

forces brought to bear. That's where the most violence

6:36

takes place. That's where you have the most transference.

6:38

It's going to take place from one object

6:41

to the body, or from one body to

6:43

another body. The

6:45

violence perpetrated by the alleged assailants,

6:48

the Wagners in the road In case was unusually

6:50

brutal, thirty two gunshot wounds

6:52

between eight victims, all but one

6:55

shot in the head, and the evidence

6:57

collected on the scene and in the lab will

6:59

all con tribute to chronicling what transpired

7:01

on the night of April twenty first, twenty sixteen.

7:05

In light of Jake Wagner's plea deal, this

7:07

story will be integral for the prosecution's

7:09

case against the other three Wagners accused

7:11

in the murders exactly five years

7:14

after the road and murders in Pike County, one

7:16

of the four defendants, Jake Wagner, is pleading

7:18

guilty to all counts in exchange,

7:20

he avoids the death penalty and will serve multiple

7:23

life sentences with no chance at parole. His

7:25

father, mother, and brother are similarly charged,

7:27

and they've pleaded not guilty to help them avoid

7:30

a possible death sentence. Prosecutors say

7:32

that Jake will testify against them.

7:35

I spoke with Joseph Markin about how Jake

7:37

Wagner's plea will impact upcoming

7:39

trials. You need to understand the

7:42

larger narrative here. He's now

7:44

on the outside. Jake is on the outside.

7:46

He's no longer, for all intents

7:49

and purposes, part of the family. He

7:51

is going to be a state's witness at this

7:53

point in tom So you're going to have defense

7:55

counsel. They want to prevent the state from validating

7:58

anything that this man has

8:00

to say. So, Jake's

8:02

already pled guilty, He's already implicated

8:05

his family. Why is how these murders

8:07

happened important? Now? They

8:09

want to try to either put all

8:11

of the blame on him and say that our defendants

8:14

had nothing to do with this whatsoever. It's

8:16

all on him. He suddenly got a guilty conscience,

8:19

had you know what we say, come to

8:21

Jesus moment and decided to roll over on everything.

8:23

And it's all him, all by himself.

8:26

It doesn't matter what we think. What's

8:29

going to matter is what the jury

8:31

thinks moving forward. At

8:34

the end of the day, everybody else will be able to

8:36

draw their own conclusions. But how in the

8:38

world is this going to be presented

8:41

to the jury? And you're going to need a playbill

8:43

to keep up with all

8:45

of the all of the various

8:48

permutations here, because if you've got

8:50

you know, four different parties here. I'm including

8:53

Jake and this and what he's saying to the

8:55

prosecution, you've got four different parties

8:57

here that are giving you difference

8:59

in areas. It's

9:01

going to be tass to someone to try

9:03

to make sense of all of this, and that's someone

9:06

that group of people are going

9:08

to be the jury.

9:11

It will be explained before the court and

9:13

the people in that jury box and

9:16

before the judge. They will say, well,

9:18

we know that at this hour

9:20

on the twenty first, this occurred. And

9:22

then moving forward, this is

9:24

when the bodies were found. Well what occurred

9:27

between these moments? In top

9:32

studying the aerial photos of the crime scenes,

9:34

Stephanie put into perspective just how overwhelming

9:37

a task it is putting the story of the road

9:39

and murders together. Just seeing these photos

9:41

now firsthand, in walking through them with you,

9:44

only offers up more questions for us.

9:47

This is not a small operation. This was huge.

9:50

The volume of this case is one

9:52

of the most striking things for me. I think, you

9:54

know, out of every case that I cover,

9:57

I don't recall case like this

10:00

that's blood suked and

10:04

it is spread far and wide.

10:06

There are so many pieces that have to be put

10:08

into place with this, you're leap

10:10

frogging from this blood bath

10:13

to another blood bath. The forensics

10:15

alone were highly complicated

10:19

just from a geographic distribution

10:21

standpoint. It's like a beautiful

10:23

mirror, okay, that someone had

10:25

hanging on their wall and somebody with

10:27

specific intent went in and destroyed

10:30

this mirror and crashed

10:32

it down into thousands and thousands

10:34

of pieces. And then it is your job to make

10:36

sense of these broken pieces and try

10:39

to put it back together, not necessarily

10:41

to make it usable again, but

10:44

to try to understand what

10:46

happened, what affected its

10:48

destruction, to what degree

10:50

is it destroyed, what instrumentality

10:54

may have destroyed it, and

10:57

what the timing was like on this How long

10:59

has this thing men destroyed? We

11:02

spoke with Joseph Morgan about the importance

11:04

of timeline in a multiple homicide case.

11:07

Tomline is essential here because

11:10

you know, we just have these bits and pieces

11:12

coming out about the order of death.

11:14

They're going to be really focused on the body and

11:17

the changes in the body and the traumas

11:20

the body is sustained and all those sorts of things.

11:23

I think that that's that's something that's

11:25

critical. As we studied

11:27

the aerial images of the crime scenes along

11:29

with the autopsy reports, Morgan tried

11:31

to piece together the chronology for us because

11:34

his body was in a more advanced state of decomposition.

11:37

It's been speculated that victim Chris Roden

11:39

Sor was the killer's first victim.

11:42

So we started by looking at the layout

11:44

of his trailer. Joseph points

11:46

it out what could have been the killer's way in here

11:49

he is talking to Stephanie. They have

11:51

a poor parking pad right there, and

11:53

there's like a sidewalk that extends

11:56

up to that's a ramp. Yeah,

11:59

walking up into this little walkway

12:01

into the porch area and therefore into the

12:04

front door. There's this entire runway,

12:06

which was likely where the assailants

12:09

entered. Correct. So that brings

12:12

me to this point. How many locks

12:14

would have had to have been defeated on that door

12:16

in order to gain entrance, and how can you gain

12:18

entrance to that door without making noise? But

12:20

if you're going into that porch, it

12:23

also speaks to the fact that they did have

12:25

multiple trained attack dogs surveiling

12:28

this area. Why didn't those attack dogs

12:30

attack because there's quite a bit of a runway

12:33

for you to get up to that porch. And is

12:35

it possible that they knocked

12:37

on the door? They knew one another, their

12:39

family was very close so or had very

12:42

close bonds. Angela Wagner

12:44

was there a woman, a mom? So wouldn't

12:46

you go to the door a little more? Even if you were at

12:49

odds? If the dads, for example, Chris

12:51

Senior and maybe Billy Wagner at

12:53

odds over something. We've heard this, but

12:55

you know his wife is there, Angela, You're

12:57

like, oh, what's happening. You'd be more likely to

12:59

open your door. It seems

13:01

implausible that they would draw

13:04

them to the door. You know, it makes me, it

13:06

really makes me think, why would they be

13:08

in the bedroom? How did the perpetrators get

13:10

into the bedroom without these guys knowing it. That

13:13

tells me that maybe there was a hidden

13:15

key. It does make sense

13:17

about perhaps a hidden key. Certainly,

13:19

we don't know this as fact, it's a speculation, but

13:22

we do know that they were running serious

13:24

surveillance on the family. They have cameras

13:26

at each of the locations in the homes, really

13:29

doing some top level surveillance on

13:31

the family end. At Jake, the youngest son, was

13:33

there quite a bit because he was sharing

13:36

custody with the youngest daughter, and

13:39

for a long period of time they would TikTok

13:41

between homes. You get to know the

13:43

location in the area very very well. Joseph

13:47

speculated about why Chris Senior may have

13:49

been targeted first. He apparently

13:52

was identified as a primary target

13:54

or at least as a primary

13:56

threat in our language.

13:58

And you hear this in the news mea quite a bit

14:00

and on television shows and all not, but there really

14:02

is truly something that is referred to as overkilled.

14:05

You know, in Chris Senior's case, he was shot

14:08

nine times. What do you make of

14:10

the brutality of that? It

14:12

kind of begs that question, Well, either

14:14

you view that person as a threat,

14:16

maybe you see that they're going to charge you,

14:18

Maybe you have an awareness of what their

14:21

potential for violence is and that

14:23

you want to prevent that. There's

14:26

evidence that he attempted or reacted

14:28

at least to the point where he raised

14:30

his arm. He's taken

14:33

one round in his right forum.

14:36

But this is the part that is

14:38

very very curious. It says that

14:41

around passed through a

14:43

door. I don't know which door. He

14:45

was in a bedroom, maybe it was the door

14:47

to his bedroom, or maybe he was hiding behind

14:49

the door. But then it goes on

14:51

to say that

14:54

that round in turn passed

14:56

into his body. So you

14:58

know, we're learning, just

15:01

in the sequencing with the

15:05

Senior among the road

15:07

and Clan, that there was a lot

15:09

of firepower that was essentially

15:13

directed toward him. You

15:15

know he resided in the trailer

15:18

with Gary, so we can

15:20

surmise that if Chris

15:22

Senior was first, then

15:25

Gary would have had to have been second

15:27

because they occupied the same essentially

15:30

the same space, you know, I guess they have separate

15:32

bedrooms. But Gary

15:35

didn't receive the same amount of tention that Chris

15:37

Senior. He was only shot at three times, but these

15:40

three gunshot ones he sustained.

15:42

Two were to the head, and it's kind

15:45

of non specific in the descriptor, but

15:48

we know that one was in the face.

15:50

And this is kind of a theme that

15:52

that you see running through the

15:55

nature of all of these killings. And I find

15:57

that kind of interesting because

16:00

anytime someone has shot

16:02

an individual in the face from

16:04

a profile standpoint, that gives you the attitude

16:07

that the individual is looking

16:09

at them at the shooter when

16:11

they're fired upon. We're

16:18

going to take a quick break here, we'll be

16:20

back in a moment. Victims

16:32

Chris Senior and Gary Roden's crime scene

16:34

potentially held a cash of clues for investigators.

16:37

We know that the scene in particular was very

16:40

bloody, okay, because we know that Chris

16:43

Senior was shot multiple time.

16:45

So when we examine a

16:47

scene. That is a

16:49

treasure trove of evidence

16:52

collection there. If someone has tried to

16:54

clean themselves, clean their hands, washed

16:57

down a weapon, maybe try to repair

16:59

an injury of their own. You've got evidence

17:01

sitting in the drain and this is something

17:03

they would have had to have accounted for. So

17:05

all of the drain traps, everything within

17:08

there would have had to have been secured. What

17:10

if something got flushed down the toilet, well,

17:12

you know, because now that's going

17:14

to go into a septic tank. Since this

17:17

is so isolated, they're

17:19

not going to be on city sewer system. Logistically,

17:22

it's a freaking nightmare. I mean

17:24

for a crime scene person, it is

17:27

an absolute nightmare. You have to make sure that

17:29

all of your bases are covered.

17:33

Outside Chris Roden Senior's home was

17:35

potentially even more evidence. Here

17:37

comes the big part that port right

17:40

there, which is a

17:42

point of egress. You need

17:44

to keep that in mind. That is a point

17:46

through which somebody entered this damned dwelling.

17:49

Just let that sink in for a second. That's

17:53

got to be detached and moved. Now

17:55

it looks like they have a

17:58

concrete slab parking area. This

18:00

is actually very nice. It's got a trailer

18:02

or a red truck, a

18:04

great truck and a small car that sparked

18:07

right by the sidewalk, and that sidewalk is

18:09

poured concrete as well. That's

18:12

all going to contain potential evidence.

18:15

We know that that is an important

18:17

piece of It's almost

18:19

like a Footprinton, right, that has so much potential

18:23

DNA or blood or something

18:25

that seeps into it. Yeah, potentially

18:27

blood evidence more than likely if

18:30

they trapes out of that house. This would

18:32

have required a herculean

18:35

effort upon the authorities

18:37

there. As

18:39

we mentioned, crime scene photos were never released.

18:42

There were also very few on the ground

18:44

photos of the surrounding area because

18:46

the entire road was closed to the public.

18:49

However, the aerial shots provide valuable

18:51

insight into the crime scenes. Most

18:53

likely, the killers then moved to the trailer just a

18:55

few hundred yards away where Frankie Rodin

18:58

and his fiance Hannah Gilly were living with

19:00

Frankie's toddler and the couple six month

19:02

old baby boy. I always pictured

19:04

it much further apart from one another. It

19:06

looks as though, and again this is an aerial shot,

19:09

you could on foot run from

19:11

Chris Senior's home to Frankie

19:14

where he and Hannah were sleeping. Making

19:17

it up to Frankie and Hannah

19:19

would be that's no effort whatsoever.

19:22

And if you've been surveilling the area and

19:24

keeping detailed notes on

19:26

movements of people and this sort of thing, it

19:29

wouldn't be a problem at all. In

19:31

order to facilitate that, the proximity

19:34

of the homes most likely forced the killers to utilize

19:36

some critical tools silencers.

19:40

We know from courtroom testimony that a homemade

19:42

silencer was found at a property owned

19:44

by the Wagner's. Having silencers

19:47

when these crime scenes are so close together

19:49

seems like they would have to. And

19:51

it does sound as though from what we've researched

19:54

that Frankie wrote in and

19:56

his fiance Hannah Gilly in their

19:59

three year old on frankie S three year old

20:01

son, they were sleeping at the time.

20:03

Absolutely. And the other

20:06

thing is this is not something that

20:08

you would do in the dark. You want to make sure, because

20:10

you're going there to specifically

20:14

execute these people, to kill them,

20:16

you want to make sure that you're going to shoot them. So

20:19

unless you've got flashlights in your

20:21

hand, which they bear one might have, you're

20:24

going to flip the switch as soon as you walk through the door, light

20:26

switch is right there. The

20:28

element of surprise allowed the killers to get

20:31

with an intimate range of their victims.

20:33

The gunshot wound. You don't think about that it's being

20:35

intimate. But if you start scoring headshots, particularly

20:37

multiple headshots, you know that there

20:40

is kind of a close approximation

20:43

of the perpetrator to the victim in

20:45

that particular case. So it tells

20:48

a different tale. And you know what gunshot

20:50

ones to the head, particularly multiple ones, you

20:52

want to think about, well, where are they shot

20:55

in the head? If it is

20:58

an execution style to the back of

21:00

the head, that's one thing that

21:03

I'm not saying that the person is being humane,

21:05

that's doing it, but they want it over with and

21:07

done as quickly as possible. When

21:10

you start talking about shooting people in the face, this

21:12

is something different, particularly if it's multiple

21:15

times. First off, the individual

21:17

has potential to visualize you as you're

21:19

doing it, and you're visualizing

21:21

them. That brings it up to

21:24

another level. Execution

21:27

style means from the back of

21:29

the head, so you don't have to make eye

21:31

contact with your victim, which

21:33

makes sense. Yeah, that's a classic interpretation

21:36

of it. Like when I'm talking to somebody,

21:40

a fellow death investigator, a fellow forensic

21:42

science person, if I say, yeah, it was an

21:44

execution style shooting automatically

21:47

for me, and I would assume for most of my colleagues,

21:49

we're gonna think, Okay, they're probably shot in the oxiput,

21:52

which if you put your hand, your

21:55

fingers on the back side of your head and you feel that

21:57

big not in the back of your skull, that's

22:00

your occiput. I swear your cerebellum

22:02

dwells where your primal brain dwells,

22:05

and there's mercy. There's

22:07

mercy in the ox

22:09

put back there, you know, while there's mercy because

22:12

if you fire into that area, it's almost

22:14

an instantaneous death. But if

22:16

you start shooting people all over their

22:18

body, and you do it multiple times, and particularly

22:20

if you approach them and shoot them in the face, there's

22:22

no guarantee they're dead instantly, no

22:25

guarantee whatsoever. According

22:29

to Morgan, the killers then likely traveled

22:31

a mile and a half up the road where victims

22:33

Dina Chris Junior, and Hannah

22:35

Rodin lived. You know, I can't imagine

22:37

that Dana poses the same threat

22:40

level. Say, for instance, as Chris Senior,

22:42

Chris pre robust kind of guy,

22:44

big guy, you know, worked outdoors

22:47

with cars and whatnot. He's

22:49

familiar with weapons. I would imagine

22:51

he could pose a threat. But this

22:54

mother living in her trailer with her kids,

22:57

what threat did she that

23:00

she pose? Is she the

23:02

focus of a tremendous

23:04

amount of anger? Well, when you combine

23:07

the fact that they have committed

23:09

overkill here with the

23:12

shooting of her in her skull so many

23:14

times, and then they

23:17

moved to shoot her in a manner in which could

23:20

potentially disfigure her, this seems

23:22

to me almost a messaging

23:24

that's sent out the people

23:26

that are perpetrating as have purpose to

23:29

them. We have the other Hannah,

23:31

And what kind of person could stand

23:33

over a young woman and fire

23:36

around into her face while staring

23:38

at her and her baby? You're

23:41

visualizing this. This is not something

23:43

that's done in abstract. You're not a

23:46

long long distance away. You're up

23:48

close and personal in these rooms, are there?

23:50

You know it's not the taj from the hall here.

23:53

I mean, it's they're not real tiny,

23:55

but they're pretty small. You're

23:57

gonna be on top of her when you're doing this. Jeff

24:02

wondered how the brutal precision executed

24:04

by the killers could play into the prosecution's

24:06

case. Does that come into play

24:08

that they shoot a mother holding

24:10

her baby twice in the head? Does that make it worse than

24:12

shooting her once? This is a prosecutor's

24:15

dream if you're talking about a narrative,

24:18

all right. It takes such

24:20

savagery on the part of an individual

24:23

to do this. You look at

24:25

Chris Junior who is

24:27

in dwelling this place, and he's

24:30

he's shot. It's kind of non specific.

24:33

We do know that he was actually

24:35

shot multiple

24:37

times in the head, and he's a

24:40

sixteen year old kid. You know

24:42

what, what threat

24:44

does he pose? Why? Why would

24:46

you take the life of a sixteen year old boy?

24:48

There? I don't I don't

24:51

understand that. I think at the end

24:53

of the day, when we analyze

24:55

all of these these shootings,

24:58

there's a thread. Obviously I've talked about about

25:00

the overkill that goes into

25:02

all of this, but there's a proximal

25:05

issue here too, that is that you're

25:08

getting into the

25:10

space of these victims.

25:15

Then it's likely the killers targeted

25:17

their last victim, Kenneth Roden, who

25:19

is sleeping a trailer a few miles away on

25:22

Left Fork Road. However, Kenneth's

25:24

crime scene was strikingly different from the other

25:26

roaden victims. This is the end, the big

25:28

finale, and they shoot this guy in

25:30

the eye. Now you know this idea

25:33

that he is shot in the eye again, this goes

25:35

to another level of violence here.

25:37

Literally did he see this coming at

25:39

that moment in time? And then to kind

25:41

of, you know, put the icing on the

25:43

cake. You you know, you drop dollar

25:46

bills around Again, that goes to motive.

25:48

You're you're trying to put the police on the scent

25:51

that this is something other than what

25:53

it appears. I've worked cartel

25:55

related homicides before. Yeah,

25:58

there's messaging didn't go along

26:00

with this sort of thing. But again,

26:03

is that what they were going for. This

26:05

is a different type of staging. You're not

26:07

trying to mitigate the

26:10

idea that it's something other than homside

26:12

is still a hom side you're trying. This goes

26:14

to the motivation behind

26:16

the home side to put them off sent And

26:19

that's a very very interesting narrative

26:22

when you begin to kind of think about it.

26:24

I believe in your professional experience,

26:27

have you ever heard of a family

26:30

that operates as a foursome

26:32

two different locations in this manner.

26:35

That's pretty uncommon. I would assume never

26:38

did work into major metropolitan

26:40

areas as corner medical examiner

26:42

investigator. I've never encountered it.

26:46

The sheer barbarity of the rodent murders

26:48

will be a critical part of the story, but

26:50

one element in particular will be crucial

26:52

to convey to the jury. Jeff asked

26:54

Joseph Morgan about it. I'm just curious,

26:57

like how the prosecutors we're going to want

26:59

to talk about the question of whether or

27:01

not the victims were aware or their life was going to end,

27:03

and how that might impact the jury. It's

27:06

going to be critical for the

27:09

prosecutor to be able to take the information

27:11

that the investigators have developed

27:14

in the field and working

27:16

these scenes, in particular the

27:19

time, these little markers

27:21

and time along the way. How

27:24

well were they able to document the

27:26

actions that took place within

27:29

the environment. If they can get that

27:31

information out into open court,

27:33

then they'll begin to talk about I can envision

27:35

a closing statement in particular, prosecutor

27:37

would stand up there and say they

27:39

took their time. We

27:42

have them document as being in this

27:44

location or this particular time, and you

27:46

as a jury have to consider this. What

27:49

were they saying, what were they doing while they were

27:51

in there? Did these people know that

27:53

they were about to die? And

27:55

of course the prosecutor, it's their job

27:57

to put this horrible

28:00

as it is, put the jury members in the place of the

28:02

victims to help them understand,

28:04

because everybody has been in fear of their life

28:06

at the end of their life at some point in time. So

28:08

you have to make that almost You can't

28:11

do it, but you want to make it as almost

28:13

tactile as you possibly can. So

28:15

the people in the jury they feel

28:17

it stirring within their soul where they

28:19

understand, Okay, these people were at a critical

28:22

mask and they knew that it was about to happen.

28:24

What would I do in

28:26

that moment, tom where

28:28

I realized that my life was

28:30

actually coming to an end. Let's

28:38

stop here for another quick break. We'll

28:40

be back in a moment. I

28:52

think that even a trained assassin

28:55

would find it foolhardy to go about trying

28:57

to kill eight people on the same evening,

29:00

covering this much territory. There are too

29:02

many things that can go wrong unless

29:05

you have somebody watching your back. You're

29:07

going to have to have a person that potentially

29:10

is a lookout, are a transporter.

29:13

You're going to have to have somebody that can

29:15

muscle or control the

29:18

intended victims, and then you have to have a shooter

29:21

and an ideally you would in

29:23

fact need somebody that's doing

29:25

overall coordination because this logistically

29:28

it's a daunting task. I

29:30

think, to say the very least

29:33

you know in this particular case, there

29:36

are too many variables involved. But

29:38

even after you plan. Perpetrators

29:41

are not crime scene investigators. They don't

29:43

think like crime scene investigators. They're

29:45

so very rare. Most

29:48

of the cases that we work as

29:50

investigators, there is a huge

29:52

opportunity for these people to

29:54

screw up along the way, to leave something

29:57

behind that is a direct indicator

29:59

there involvement are at the presence

30:02

when these deaths occurred, and

30:05

in this case, what was left behind included

30:07

three young children. According

30:10

to Morgan, these spared lives go directly

30:12

to the heart of the presiding motive of the case,

30:15

the singular driver behind

30:17

this. It has to those children

30:22

whole value. The attachment

30:24

to the children is the driver behind this. When

30:26

you get overkilled, in my

30:29

experience, at least it goes

30:31

to a lot of anger, it

30:33

goes to a lot of passion, and

30:36

you'll see it in domestics. You go to all

30:38

this trouble, but yet you leave these three

30:40

babies alive, and you have to you

30:43

know, you begin to kind of question this, and

30:46

it has an investigator. It takes you down a

30:48

specific direction. Who would attach

30:50

value to these children, who would want to see

30:53

them continue to live and

30:55

still exist among the land of

30:57

the living up their pip can what

31:01

accused killers Billy Angela and George

31:03

Wagner head to trial. Prosecutors

31:05

will paint them as the main characters in a

31:07

gruesome, multilayered horror story.

31:10

Good prosecutors are great storytellers.

31:13

That's their heartbeat. If they are

31:15

affective. They take all these little pieces of evidence,

31:17

all this stuff we've been talking about, and

31:20

they tighten that thing down, and they

31:22

walk in the courtroom and they start talking about

31:24

mama's and they start talking about babies,

31:27

and they start talking about these familial ties.

31:29

And it will be powerful

31:32

in court. It will be very powerful. And

31:34

I can almost see it now, envisioning

31:38

right now, when he starts

31:41

talking about this, and you

31:43

can see that jury there will be a slow

31:45

turn of their heads toward that defendant's

31:47

table, no matter

31:49

who's on trial at that particular time, because they

31:51

will talk about mama, and they will talk about those

31:53

babies, and they're going to stare that individual

31:56

town and they're gonna think, who

31:58

in the hell is in the courtroom with us. Well,

32:04

we wait to see if Billy Angela

32:06

and George Wagner will head to trial. There's

32:08

one man intimately involved in the road and murder

32:11

case who has already seen his day in court,

32:13

Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader.

32:17

After the murders, he became front and

32:19

center of all of the coverage.

32:21

She was giving information alongside the

32:24

Ohio Attorney General at that time. People

32:26

were looking to him for information and

32:29

they wanted Reader, along with the state

32:31

of Ohio, to solve these murders.

32:33

From all of the coverage that

32:36

went into Pike County in the months

32:38

after these murders, I mean, Charlie

32:40

Reader was a central figure in that. But

32:44

Sheriff Reader had a quick fall from grace.

32:46

In June twenty nineteen, he was indicted

32:48

on eight felonies and eight misdemeanors.

32:51

His charges included thefton office and

32:53

tampering with evidence. That was huge

32:55

news, not only because of his involvement

32:58

in the road and murders, but you're talking

33:00

about the sitting sheriff, the high Sheriff

33:02

of Pike County is now the subjects

33:04

of an investigation. Evidence

33:07

of misconduct, evidence of corruption

33:10

by a politician. You're going, man, I don't

33:12

know what may happen with this. On

33:16

March twenty four, twenty one, Sheriff

33:19

Freder appeared in court to face the charges

33:21

leveled against him. A

33:23

guilty verdict would have major consequences

33:27

if you're a defense attorney working

33:30

on this case and the sheriff,

33:32

if the county gets indicted, I

33:35

would think, you know, if you're a Wagner attorney,

33:39

you would look to have a field day with that.

33:42

That might be part of your defense. More

33:50

on that next time. For

33:54

more information on the case and relevant photos,

33:57

follow us on Instagram at Katie

33:59

Underscores Studios. The piked

34:01

In Massacre Returned to Pike County is executive

34:03

produced by Stephanie Lydecker and me Courtney

34:06

Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by

34:08

executive producer Jared Aston. Additional

34:11

producing by Jeff Shane, Andrew Becker

34:13

and Chris Graves. The piked In Massacre.

34:15

Returned to Pike County is a production of iHeartRadio

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