0:00

Welcome to The Piked and Massacre, a production

0:02

of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios.

0:05

I gotta tell you from kind of a visceral

0:08

standpoint, when I heard

0:10

the news that this kid had rolled

0:13

over on this case, one

0:16

thing that kind of came to mind

0:18

from me is, you

0:21

know, I kind of envisioned his mother

0:23

in almost a mob

0:25

Barker kind of way, that

0:28

she's kind of the puppet master

0:30

that's controlling everything. He's

0:35

sitting there all along, and suddenly

0:37

he has this lucid moment where

0:40

he's out from under that though, and

0:44

he realizes, I'm going to get the

0:46

needle for all of this.

0:52

This is The Piked and Massacre. Returned to

0:54

Pike County Season two, Episode

0:57

three, Wagner Versus Wagner

1:00

m Courtney Armstrong, a television producer

1:02

at Katie Studios with Stephanie Lydecker

1:04

and Jeff Shane. On April twenty

1:06

second, twenty twenty one, Jake Wagner

1:08

pleaded guilty to eight aggravated murder

1:11

charges in the Rodent family massacre. As

1:13

part of his plea deal, he implicated his mother,

1:16

Angela Wagner, father Billy Wagner,

1:18

and brother George Wagner as co conspirators

1:21

in the killings. He's also agreeing to testify

1:24

against his parents and brother, who are

1:26

also charged in these murders.

1:28

Here's reporter Anjeanette Levy. I

1:30

don't believe anybody knew he was going to do

1:32

this, So it's it's

1:35

a pretty stunning development to

1:37

see Jake Wagner, the youngest

1:39

of the entire family, who would

1:41

you would think would be, you know, maybe

1:44

the most pliable in some respects because

1:46

he is the youngest. But to see him

1:48

just break away from his family, I

1:50

don't know, it's it's pretty interesting.

1:54

The significance of Jake Wagner folding on his

1:56

family cannot be overstated. But what

1:58

does it mean moving forward? Criminal

2:01

defense attorney Mike Allen told Stephanie that it

2:03

could signal an impending legal chess match.

2:05

In terms of Jake Wagner's admission

2:08

of guilt. I'm just curious about what that

2:10

means altogether. He's confessed

2:12

to killing five of the eight

2:14

Rodents. Personally, is he trying

2:16

to save himself or trying to save

2:18

his family? You know, obviously, you know,

2:21

if he did five out of eight, you still have three

2:23

left, and you know it'll come out who

2:26

who actually did the killing on those

2:28

other three, but it was

2:30

probably a strategic move

2:32

on the prosecutor's part not to let that out

2:34

yet. And you know Proscue is not going

2:37

to show his cards, or in this case, she

2:39

Angie when she's got three

2:41

other defendants to try, so they're

2:44

still going to hold it close to the vest I think.

2:48

Stephanie asked reporter James Pilcher if

2:50

there were still moves left for Jake to play.

2:52

Is it possible that he'll say that Jacob could

2:54

say I was in a very controlling environment.

2:57

My mother, Angela Wagner, controlled

3:00

us, My father was a bully

3:02

and said I had to do these

3:04

things, and we were coerced

3:07

into it. Is there any value

3:09

in that even? I mean, that's entirely

3:11

possible, and some of the reporting that's what we've

3:13

heard Lee Coal. The other thing I will say

3:15

is that maybe they're going after bigger

3:18

game than Jake, and they figured we'll cut this deal.

3:20

Now he'll give us what we want and then

3:22

we can go get the mom and the dad. But

3:24

clearly they were going after the people who plotted

3:27

it. This was not Jake's idea,

3:30

right or at least not according to the prosecutors.

3:32

This was a family coming together. That's

3:35

what the prosecutors are after, is that, Okay,

3:37

we get Jake to help us, we get Jake to

3:40

plead out. It shows that this really did

3:42

happen. Now we can go after the people

3:44

who actually planned it. On

3:47

April twenty eighth, just six days after Jake

3:49

Wagner's hearing, his accused brother, George

3:51

Wagner, walked into the Pike County Courthouse.

3:54

The first court hearing since last week's surprise

3:56

plea deal in the Pike County murder trials

3:58

took place today. This hearing for George Wagner

4:00

was supposed to center on a few defense emotions

4:02

involving discovery evidence. Anette

4:04

Levy was on the scene that day. She spoke to producer

4:07

Chris Graves. He kind of described the

4:09

mood and what was going on. The mood was

4:11

a lot lighter than it had been in the past. The

4:13

Roden family is a little bit that I saw of them.

4:16

They just seemed happy for the first

4:18

time in a long time. And I think I saw Hannah Gilly's

4:20

mother and she actually seemed happy. And

4:23

they can start to finally look fitthered, So

4:25

it was just a much lighter mood. But

4:27

you know George the Fourth, obviously it

4:30

wasn't a lighter mood for him. He looked

4:32

very stressed. He looked very thin. He

4:34

doesn't look good. You can see it on his face.

4:37

In the aftermath of Jake Wagner's shocking confession,

4:40

many wondered how accused older brother George

4:42

Wagner's hearing would play out. We

4:44

spoke at length about George in the last two episodes.

4:47

It was at his wedding that the last known picture

4:49

of the Roden and Wagner families was taken.

4:52

Also, George and his ex wife dealt

4:54

with eerily similar custody issues that would

4:56

foreshadow what would happen between victim

4:58

Hannah Roden and Jake Wagner. His

5:00

lawyer, Rick Nash, has been very

5:03

assertive and maintained that George

5:05

the Fourth there was no case against him, that

5:07

there was no evidence against him. But

5:10

now he's kind of having to swallow

5:12

his pride a little bit, I think and realize

5:15

that there may be some really good evidence

5:17

tying his client to this and

5:19

this emotion. Hearing was for like all these

5:21

boilerplate death penalty motions. Death

5:24

penalty is off the table now. People

5:28

following the case wondered would George Wagner

5:30

strike a plea deal as well. My opinion

5:32

of George the fourth is that he's

5:35

kind of is the weakest link in this family

5:38

because he's got the most to lose. He

5:40

has a son who he loves dearly,

5:43

and he wants to

5:46

be with his son. And so

5:48

I was wondering, what's George going to do?

5:51

Instead of a guilty plead, the court heard something

5:53

far less dramatic. It took us in five

5:55

minutes for George wage to the fourth to ask

5:58

for more time to evaluate the situation.

6:05

No, Judge, I don't think so. We I think everybody's

6:07

agreed that, given recent events, that

6:10

everybody needs to step back and reassess. The

6:13

hearing concluded with an agreement to reschedule

6:16

the motion for June twenty first, twenty

6:18

one. Though there were no bombshell

6:20

developments, it's clear that the next few weeks

6:22

will be pivotal. George Wagner and his

6:24

accused parents, Angela and Billy Wagner

6:27

must now decide how they will proceed.

6:29

Do you think that it's possible that

6:32

now that Jake took the plea deal and admitted

6:34

to the murders that we may see Billy Angela

6:36

and or George doing this same thing. I

6:39

think it's possible that the others could plead

6:41

out. But at the same time, what's

6:44

the point They have nothing to lose

6:46

by going to trial, because they either

6:48

to plead out get life in prison, or

6:50

they roll the dice and go to trial and maybe

6:52

they can hang a jury.

6:56

As Mike Allen points out, there's no one

6:58

case that assures an Is

7:01

there any version of this where one

7:03

of them is found guilty and the

7:05

other are found innocent. It's

7:07

possible, Yeah, I mean, it just it

7:10

all depends on what the individual juries

7:12

want to do. Yeah, I mean, that's very possible,

7:15

And it's happened on trials that where

7:18

they're two defendants that have been

7:20

severed, where one has found guilty and

7:22

the other one is not. You know, different

7:24

juries are different and it'll be a

7:26

different jury for every one of

7:28

these trials, and

7:31

lawyers will tell you, especially

7:33

criminal lawyers, you never

7:35

know what is going to happen with the jury.

7:38

And I've been at this for forty

7:41

years and juries are becoming

7:43

even more unpredictable. I

7:45

don't know why, but they are.

7:47

But in answer to your question, yeah, that's

7:49

a possibility. Last

7:51

episode, we heard Bureau of Criminal Investigation

7:54

agent Ryan Scheiderer testify

7:56

about the Wagner's cult like family dynamic.

7:59

They're very They lived together,

8:01

They've always lived together. Their finances

8:03

are intermingled, the homeschool together,

8:06

they raise their kids together. Everything is

8:08

done together. As well as

8:10

we have an informat who says that

8:12

every decision within that family is made

8:15

as a family decision. Without

8:18

any of the other Wagners coming forward with plea

8:20

deals, there are still a lot of questions that

8:22

need to be answered about the family that is alleged

8:24

to have carried out Ohio's most notorious

8:26

crime. It's worth noting that while

8:29

Jake Wagner pleaded guilty, Angela

8:31

Billy and George Wagner have pleaded

8:33

not guilty. The state is kind of

8:35

maintained that each person in this

8:37

conspiracy had their own role, They

8:40

had their own kind of part to play,

8:42

And you know, it's going to be interesting

8:44

to see how strong the evidence

8:47

is to support their assertion that each

8:49

person had a role in this conspiracy.

8:53

At this point, one thing is clear, Jake

8:55

Wagner holds the fate of his family in his hands,

8:57

and the united front the Wagner family has built

9:00

is beginning to erode. How

9:02

it will all unfold is anyone's guess.

9:05

Remember, we don't know exactly what Jake

9:07

said and how he said it. We just know that he

9:09

confessed and led them to evidence. So

9:12

there's still a lot we don't know based

9:14

on what the prosecution outlined in court.

9:17

So let's take a look at the evidence we know about based

9:20

on what we've heard through preliminary hearings

9:22

over the past three years. One

9:24

of the most informative was a hearing for accused

9:26

brother George Wagner that took place on August

9:29

thirty first, twenty twenty.

9:31

That day, George's attorneys requested

9:33

that he be allowed to post bail, arguing

9:35

that there was no evidence to tie him to the

9:37

case, and Neette Levy was at

9:39

the Pike County courthouse that day. It

9:42

was actually a fool's errand because in

9:44

the state of Ohio, someone charged

9:46

with aggravated murder in which the deaf count

9:48

Vias thought, can be held without bail automatically.

9:51

There's really no question about it. So

9:54

they were kind of wanting to, I think get some more

9:56

information about the evidence in the case and the

9:58

BCI agent on the case. The lead

10:01

agent, Ryan Scheiterer, took the stand

10:03

and answered a series of questions about

10:05

the evidence in the case that they have against

10:08

George. Swear or

10:10

firm testimony were about gears true

10:13

the whole I

10:17

see that special

10:19

Agent Ryan Scheiderer of the Bureau of

10:21

Criminal Investigation taking his oath in

10:23

court. During the hearing, George Wagner's

10:25

attorney tried to distance his client from the crime

10:28

and his accused family. His attorney

10:30

had set something to the effect of the evidence

10:33

of you know, if it tied anybody to this,

10:35

it was Jake and Angela, not George. What

10:37

text or digital communications

10:40

did you find too or from him?

10:42

If you think is relevant specifically

10:45

about text messages with George,

10:47

I don't remember any. Did you collect

10:49

a cell phone from George? I don't

10:51

believe we ever collected George celler What

10:54

connection does George had to do with that laptime?

10:57

The device was registered to Jake,

11:00

specifically Angela, who seemed to be the

11:02

primary user of that laptop, but

11:05

there was some evidence that implicated George

11:07

Wagner along with his brother Jake and the

11:10

crimes. One of the most striking

11:12

parts of Agent Scheider's testimony

11:14

had to do with the type of guns used in the homicides.

11:17

We know the three calibers of firearms

11:19

that were used to convent these murders, and

11:21

they were a twenty

11:24

two caliber long rifle, a

11:26

forty caliber and a thirty caliber.

11:29

Scheiderer went on to make a direct correlation

11:31

between the twenty two caliber shell casings

11:33

found at victims Dana Rodin and

11:35

Frankie Roden's homes and the property

11:38

owned by the Wagner family. Here's

11:40

Agent Scheiterer being questioned by Prosecutor

11:42

Angie Kaneppa. We recovered

11:45

twenty two caliber shell casings and

11:47

where we recovered those which at two sixty

11:49

Peterson Road, which was a property that was owned

11:52

by George Wager and his

11:54

brother Jake. And were

11:56

those shell casings submitted to the lab

11:59

or comparison to the shell casings

12:01

that had been recovered from both

12:03

Frankie's and Dana's residences.

12:07

Yes, and what

12:10

was the opinion of the The

12:13

weapon that fired the shell casings at two

12:15

sixty Pierson Road also fired

12:17

the shell casings at Anna's

12:21

and Dana's residence as well as Frankie

12:23

and Anna Gillis residence. So

12:26

the same firearm had been suspired on the same

12:28

properties. Okay, So he eat exact

12:30

same gun, not just the same type of gun,

12:33

the same firearms, okay.

12:37

Forensic expert Joseph Morgan explained

12:40

the intricate science involved in tying a

12:42

shell casing back to a specific gun.

12:44

The inside of a handgun

12:46

like this has got rifling. That means

12:49

it's got lands, which are kind of flat plateau

12:51

looking formations. And

12:53

also because these are soft

12:56

metal brass casings

12:58

that are being ejected once the round

13:00

is fired, you have what are referred to

13:02

as extraction marks. This

13:05

spent case in it leaves these little marks

13:07

that are unique to the interior housing

13:10

of this particular weapon.

13:12

And even you can have a weapon that rolls

13:15

off the line with fifty

13:17

other weapons that are the same same

13:19

model, but they're all going to be unique

13:22

at a microscopic level, and

13:24

that's how they tied back the

13:26

projectile to a specific weapon. Another

13:30

suspicious item was found during a different

13:32

search of the same Wagner property. The

13:35

police went back and they found

13:38

what the ATF says was likely

13:40

used as a homemade silencer for a gun.

13:44

Agent Scheiderer elaborated recovered

13:47

a maglite flashlight turned

13:50

into the suppressor. Yeah

13:52

adapter at one end that as a

13:55

solid adapter, they closed in and they

13:57

at the other end you add a thread

13:59

adapter and it's designed to

14:02

catch cleaning solvent when you're cleaning

14:04

your firearm, but it can easily be converted

14:07

into a suppressor. They

14:09

determined that it was a suppressor as defined

14:11

by federal statue, been

14:13

fired at least one time because they could see a

14:15

bull of striking inside the suppressor.

14:17

Thing. That was pretty

14:20

interesting because that wasn't found. That was found

14:22

in I think October of twenty

14:24

eighteen, right before the indictments came

14:26

out, and that property, the Peterson

14:28

Road home, had been searched in

14:31

May of twenty seventeen. I mean, when

14:33

I hear that, it sounds like someone

14:35

told them about it. We know, but Jake

14:37

led them to the guns, the murder weapons,

14:40

the car used purchased and news

14:42

and so who knows. Maybe.

14:46

During cross examination by George Wagner's

14:48

attorney, Agent Scheiderer highlighted some

14:50

of the other evidence the state has on George,

14:53

including wire tap surveillance. Could

14:55

you approximate to the nearest

14:58

hundred many

15:00

hours you have regarding

15:03

this recording of George Wagner

15:08

hours? Not really, but

15:10

I would say over

15:12

one hundred days, over

15:15

agred days, Okay, And so

15:17

I want you to focus on those hundred days,

15:20

and maybe your answer is the same, but I'm

15:22

going to ask it a different way. Could you tell us

15:24

over that one hundred days of recording

15:26

George Wagner what statement

15:29

he made that you recorded that

15:31

ties him into this case. I

15:34

mean, he never confessed, if

15:36

that's what you're getting at, but he made incriminating

15:38

statements. At

15:40

a different hearing, George Wagner appeared in

15:42

court for an unusual request to

15:45

be put in solitary confinement. Here's

15:47

Jeff speaking with Mike Allen. What about

15:49

George Wagner asking for solitary confinement?

15:52

What do you make of that? His stated reason

15:54

was that he wanted to be able to study

15:56

the Bible in peace. That's a little

15:59

unusual when inmates

16:02

ask for solitary A lot of

16:04

times, although they may not say it,

16:06

they're asking for that because they've been threatened,

16:09

and you know, they want to make sure that

16:11

they're as safe as they can be in jail.

16:14

Yeah, it's hard. It's hard to know what's going

16:17

through his head. But I mean, either he's

16:19

immersing himself in the Holy Bible

16:21

or somebody saying that they're

16:23

going to do something to him. Either

16:25

way, his mental state is probably

16:28

not good. But when I read

16:30

that, I kind of wondered, is that the real reason?

16:32

I mean, you know, you just have to wonder what the

16:34

motivation is. Since

16:37

his arrest in twenty eighteen, accused father

16:40

Billy Wagner has also staunchly maintained

16:42

his innocence. Billy Wagner's attorney

16:44

has been very adamant that

16:46

there's no evidence. There's no case against

16:48

Billy Wagner, but there's nothing. They

16:51

have, nothing that ties him to this. Last

16:54

year, Billy Wagner made an audacious move

16:56

to separate himself from the other members of his family

16:59

and move his trial word. He

17:01

took it upon himself to file a motion in court.

17:03

It had to do with his right to what's referred to

17:05

as a speedy trial, an Ohio procedural

17:08

rule stipulating that anyone charged with a

17:10

felony must be brought to trial within two hundred

17:12

and seventy days of their arrest. While

17:15

accused father Billy Wagner, had initially

17:17

waived his right to a speedy trial, it

17:19

seems he suddenly had a change of heart. The

17:21

court received a handwritten motion

17:24

from Billy Wagner asking that his

17:26

right to a speedy trial be invoked

17:28

and that he withdraw his waiver

17:30

of this speedy trial right. He was

17:33

pretty frustrated. I guess that he's

17:35

sitting in jail. He says he's innocent

17:38

and was frustrated and

17:40

submitted this or to the court.

17:42

But it was actually some fairly good jailhouse

17:44

lawyering. I'm assuming he had somebody

17:46

in the jail can write this for him and

17:49

his attorneys. They became aware of it

17:51

and talked with him and withdrew

17:54

it immediately. Mike Allen

17:56

gave us his professional opinion on Billy's

17:58

homespun legal strategy. I don't

18:00

care how small your jail is, you're going to have

18:02

jail house lawyers and criminal defense

18:05

attorneys instruct their clients. Do not

18:07

listen to the jail house lawyers.

18:10

They don't know what they're talking about. If

18:12

they did, they wouldn't be where they are.

18:14

So that's every criminal defense

18:17

lawyer's worst nightmare

18:20

is when your client files

18:22

a motion without consulting

18:24

the attorney. It's a very

18:27

stupid thing to do. So

18:29

Billy Wagner's lawyer, I'm sure, probably

18:32

had some strong words for him

18:34

for doing that. Well,

18:36

Billy and George Wagner have been busy filing

18:38

legal motions to help their cases. The

18:40

same camp be said about accused mother Angela

18:43

Wagner. Bob Craypence is

18:46

what you would call, you know, the first chair on this case

18:48

for her defense team, and he's

18:50

been very it's

18:52

been very quiet on that

18:54

front. However, Angela

18:56

Wagner has appeared in court for other reasons.

18:59

At a r in twenty nineteen, Judge

19:01

Randy Deering revoked Angelo Wagner's

19:03

mail and phone privileges after she was caught

19:06

trying to discuss case strategy with her

19:08

family. Here's her lawyer speaking

19:10

in court that day, which

19:12

stipulated that Vita she was in fact

19:15

instructed she was having no contact

19:17

with the codefendants in this case. This team

19:19

half presented as was some information indicative

19:22

of a violation of that stipulated that she

19:24

did in fact hilate that court

19:26

or some

19:28

of Angelo Wagner's alleged orchestration

19:30

was presented by Agent Scheiterer at George's

19:33

bail hearing last year. He testified

19:35

about shoe prints that were found at a few of

19:37

the crime scenes. This evidence

19:39

points directly to Angelo Wagner's role in

19:41

the conspiracy.

19:44

Exhibits eight and nine.

19:49

These are the shoe impression

19:52

prints that were lifted from Chris

19:54

Rogan Senior's residence, and those

19:56

are shoe impressons that are later

19:59

determined to be from

20:01

a specific shoe that is

20:03

determined to be sold by Walmart. Correct?

20:06

And then did you ultimately execute

20:09

a search warrant up on State

20:11

out for you? One? Yes? And you

20:13

described to us what you were searching there

20:16

there were two pickup trucks and

20:19

three trailers that were parked

20:22

at that location that belonged to the Wagoner

20:24

family. Did you find a receipt? Yes,

20:27

we did. There was a Walmart receipt

20:29

resin Weird. The receipt

20:32

was and Jake Wagner's

20:35

okay, and

20:39

specifically in a tub marked

20:41

important things or something correct, Okay,

20:43

what was the significance of that receipt?

20:46

So this Walmart receipt is for the

20:48

Waverley Ohio walmart on

20:50

Emma Avenue. It is dated April

20:53

seventh, twenty sixteen, time stamp

20:55

at sixteen fifty eight hours. On

20:57

there there are the purchase of two Athletic

21:00

brand tennis shoes, which is consistent

21:03

with the shoes that we were looking

21:05

for. And you indicated that Angela

21:08

told made a statement to your

21:10

fellow agents that she had

21:12

purchased those shoes specifically

21:14

for Jacob George. Correct. And

21:18

you were asked if you've

21:20

recovered those shoes, if you found

21:22

those shoes, yes, and

21:25

you did not correct. Correct, And

21:28

isn't it true that Angela said that

21:30

she had thrown those shoes away the very

21:32

same day that she bought them. Yes, because

21:35

the boys didn't like the shoes. Correct, But

21:38

Jacob George told they

21:41

denied knowledge of the shoes ever

21:43

seen. Correct. We're

21:50

going to take a quick break here. We'll be

21:52

back in a moment. Altogether,

22:04

it appears the prosecution has amassed an

22:06

overwhelming amount of evidence against the Wagner

22:09

family. Here is Agent Scheider telling

22:11

George Wagner's attorney just how much audio

22:13

evidence the state has at their disposal. What

22:16

reportings do you have that you feel are relevant

22:19

for this or some evidence. Here.

22:21

In these case, we

22:24

have you know, approximately eight

22:26

thousand recordings primarily

22:29

of the Wagner individuals, the family. You

22:32

know, we also have interviews where, you

22:35

know, I feel there was incriminating

22:37

statements made within the interviews. They've

22:41

got wire taps in this case. They have video

22:43

surveillance evidence, they have, you

22:46

know, countless interviews with people. The

22:48

prosecution has said, you know, this is a

22:50

voluminous file. They've said

22:52

it takes up terabytes and terabytes.

22:55

A terabyte is a huge amount

22:58

of space on a computer. So like

23:01

it kind of gives you an idea of what they've gathered.

23:04

The sheer volume of evidence shocked even

23:06

seasoned attorney Mike Allen. Here

23:09

he is talking to Jeff you as

23:11

an expert. Is that a high amount? Is that a normal

23:13

amount of evidence? No, that's

23:16

just astronomical. I would not have

23:18

expected it to be that high. It's

23:20

not normal at all. According

23:23

to investigative reporter Jodi Barr,

23:25

George and the other accused Wagners could have

23:27

implicated each other without even knowing.

23:29

What we don't know is whether the

23:32

Waggoners gave statements and what

23:35

statements they made. Two investigators

23:37

before during or after the charge. We

23:40

don't know what the contents

23:42

of any intercepted phone calls as they've

23:44

been in jail might be. Who

23:46

knows what the state of Ohio has as far as

23:49

whether you know, statements

23:51

made by one Wagner could almost

23:53

assure a conviction of another. So

23:56

how could we see the legal battles play out in the

23:58

courtroom if the Wagner's aside to go to trial.

24:01

As it stands, Billy Angela and

24:03

George Wagner have all been charged with

24:05

eight counts of aggravated murder. If

24:07

convicted, they, like Jake, will spend

24:09

the rest of their lives in prison. Never

24:12

have I seen anything even remotely

24:14

close to this case. I've been involved

24:17

in some bad ones, but this

24:19

one is by far the worst. One

24:21

of the many things that's so unique

24:23

about this offense is you do have

24:26

generations of family members

24:28

just taken out completely

24:30

excuse hard to imagine

24:33

a fact scenario, you know, more bizarre

24:35

than this one. It's so

24:37

unique in so many ways. One

24:40

of them is the enormous burden the trials will

24:42

place on the legal teams and the Ohio criminal

24:44

justice system. You're trying the case

24:46

in a small county with limited resources.

24:50

I don't know how they're going to do it.

24:52

It's just going to be a logistical nightmare.

24:54

Can the Wagner lawyers work together on

24:57

the defense or does it all have to be separate.

24:59

They can work together, and that happens

25:01

sometimes when you have code defendants.

25:03

I think at some point you run into some strategy

25:06

problems. But to a certain extent

25:08

they can. But the lawyer obviously

25:11

has to zealously represent his client.

25:13

But if it's in this client's best interest to

25:15

work with the other lawyers, yeah, they definitely

25:18

would. Witness

25:21

testimony could also prove to be a challenge.

25:23

You're going to have witness burnout because

25:26

many most probably of

25:28

the witnesses in one trial will

25:30

be witnesses in the other. And

25:32

you know that's a burden upon

25:34

the witnesses, but the prosecution has

25:37

no choice that they have to go forward

25:39

in that nature. Another

25:41

obstacle seating a jury of twelve

25:43

impartial Pike County residence. Here's

25:46

Chris speaking to reporter James

25:48

Pilcher. It's Ohio state

25:50

law that you initially have to try and

25:52

seed a jury in the county the crime was committed,

25:55

correct, So Angela Wagner has

25:57

already requested that her trial be moved out of

25:59

Pike County, but under High I legal

26:01

procedures, you have to try to see the jury

26:03

in the county where the crime was committed before

26:05

you're allowed to move it. So they've got a pull from

26:07

a jury pool of registered voters,

26:10

will narrow it down to twelve plus

26:12

a couple of alternates, and that process can take

26:14

anywhere from three days to a week,

26:16

depending on the complexity of the case. I

26:18

mean, that's going to be really difficult, isn't it. I Mean

26:21

there's only I think what twenty seven twenty eight thousand

26:23

residents in all of Pike County.

26:26

You have to pick jurors for cases

26:29

out of a jury pool that small. I

26:31

would not be surprised to see them have to move

26:34

some of these trials to another county.

26:37

Again, here's Mike Allen. That's probably

26:40

the judge's the biggest headache

26:42

in this case is to ultimately

26:44

be able to see separate juries

26:46

that can be fair both to the state

26:49

and to the defense, because I think

26:51

you'd be hard pressed to find

26:53

any county in the stateable Ohio that

26:56

just was not innundated with

26:58

media coverage about this. But

27:00

it's important to keep this in mind. If

27:03

a potential juror says

27:05

under own that, yes, I have seen

27:08

things in the media about this, but

27:10

I can divorce myself

27:12

from those things and render

27:15

a fair and impartial verdict based upon

27:17

the evidence that we

27:19

see from the witness stand, the testimony,

27:22

and the instructions given by

27:24

the judge. That's then a good

27:26

and acceptable juror. And that's the

27:28

only way that this case is going to work.

27:31

Because unless you're

27:33

living in some kind of a cave, I don't care

27:35

who you are, you've heard about it,

27:37

and you know you're just not going to be

27:39

able to see a jury of twelve

27:42

in any of these cases where they've not

27:44

heard anything about it. How

27:46

are each of the cases likely to affect

27:48

the other? Are there things that we should be keeping

27:51

an eye on The first one that goes I

27:53

think as the tougher road, and

27:55

the guy going last or next to

27:57

last, they're going to have

27:59

advantage by knowing which way

28:02

the judge will rule on evidentiary

28:05

motions and things of that nature.

28:07

They'll have the benefit of watching the tape,

28:09

so to speak, like a like a football

28:11

coach would. But

28:14

there could be one overlooked factor that determines

28:17

the outcome of the cases, the drive

28:19

of the prosecuting attorneys. When

28:21

you see a case like this and see

28:24

the position these young

28:26

kids have been put in, what does that make you feel?

28:28

When you see a case like this, it's just

28:30

absolutely heartbreaking. It

28:33

just is because you

28:35

just know that that is going to permanently

28:38

affect that child. There's no way

28:40

that it couldn't, but a

28:42

prosecutors driven by justice

28:45

for the victim and the victim's family.

28:48

But if you have a particularly violent

28:51

and hand this crime like you

28:53

have here, it's tough. But

28:56

as a prosecutor, honestly,

28:58

it makes you want to work all the harder to

29:01

get a conviction. And yeah,

29:03

it's just the way it is. We've

29:05

heard Special Agent Ryan Scheiderer mentioned

29:08

witnesses who were close to the Wagner's and excerpts

29:10

of his testimony. Since Jake Wagner's

29:13

confession, we haven't heard anything from grandmother

29:15

of the accused, Frederica Wagner.

29:18

Last season, we talked about how she was arrested

29:20

on obstruction of justice and perjury

29:22

charges pertaining to bulletproof ESTs she purchased

29:25

for her son, Billy Wagner. Prosecutors

29:27

believe she purchased the best for him to

29:29

use in the killings. Her charges were dropped

29:31

after a hearing in twenty nineteen, as the

29:33

prosecution feared not being able to try the

29:35

case before the two hundred and seventy days

29:38

Speedy Trial statute. But her

29:40

case isn't closed yet, Frederica.

29:42

They've indicated in court documents

29:44

that they may charge her again with obstruction.

29:47

Frederica Wagner has vehemently defended

29:50

her family's innocence, but is

29:52

it possible that she knows more about what happened

29:54

the night of April twenty first, twenty sixteen

29:56

than she's let on. Depending

29:59

on what Jake wagen her nose and reveals,

30:01

it's possible that grandmother Frederica Wagner

30:04

could be looking at new charges. Do

30:06

you know what Jake pleading guilty,

30:08

how that will impact his grandmother?

30:11

Well, they can always be reindicted

30:14

if there's additional new evidence.

30:17

He kind of seems to be like he's the key

30:19

to this entire case. So

30:21

yeah, I suppose it's possible. To

30:24

our knowledge, Frederica Wagner has

30:26

not been implicated in any other crimes,

30:28

nor has she made any plea deals with the prosecution,

30:31

but the same camp he said for the other grandmother

30:33

who was charged in the case, Rita Newcome,

30:36

Angela Wagner's mother, had initially told

30:38

investigators that she had notarized

30:41

and signed some custody documents for

30:43

the child that Jake and Hannah shared in

30:45

the event that they died. But then later

30:48

as her trial approached, on the day of trial,

30:50

all of the sudden, we were all out there ready

30:53

to go, and the trial was canceled.

30:55

And then a short time later she pleaded guilty,

30:58

and in court the prosecution and outlined

31:00

how they said that Rita admitted

31:03

that she had lied and that her daughter Angela,

31:05

had asked her to lie about signing

31:07

and notarizing those custody documents.

31:10

Here's a statement read a newcommade during

31:12

her plea deal, as anyone promised

31:14

you anything at all, or threatened

31:16

you in any way at all, in order

31:19

to induce you to withdraw

31:21

your former plea of not guilty entered

31:24

to the original charge of obstructing

31:27

justice, a fifth degree felony in count four,

31:30

and to enter a plea of guilty to

31:32

the amended charge of obstructing

31:34

official business a misdemeanor

31:36

of the second degree. No,

31:39

I just feel that it's not a good Christian

31:42

thing to line and I couldn't input

31:44

it in the more. This

31:48

is all despite Angela Wagner's repeated

31:50

attempts to further manipulate her mother.

31:53

During court hearings for

31:55

Angela's mother, Rita Newcome, it was stated

31:57

that Angela Wagner was on jail calls

32:00

telling her mother, you don't have to testify

32:02

against us. Mike

32:05

Allen told Stephanie about the challenges Rita

32:07

Newcomb's testimony could present if the trials

32:09

move forward. If it's obvious to

32:12

the trial judge that she doesn't want to be

32:14

testifying to the state, the

32:16

judge can and probably would, designate

32:18

her as a hostile witness. What is

32:20

a hostile witness If the prosecution

32:24

has to call a witness to establish

32:26

or help establish one of the elements of the

32:28

offense, and that witnesses someone

32:30

who's more sympathetic with the defense

32:33

in all likelihood than the judge would designate

32:36

that person a hostile witness, giving the

32:38

prosecutor the opportunity to ask

32:40

leading questions. So it's not a matter

32:42

whether they get up on the stand and act at crazy

32:44

or act like an idiot. It's a matter of

32:47

is this person going to cooperate

32:50

with whoever is calling them.

32:53

Another possibility is hearing from one of

32:55

the long rumored informants we discussed

32:57

last season. Mike Allen discussed the role

32:59

in formants usually play in cases like the

33:01

Wagner's. Are you able to, Mike, just tell

33:04

us what an informant is. It usually

33:06

is a situation where they go to the police

33:09

with some information. I mean, police

33:11

can seek out people too, and you

33:13

know, just say hey, you know, you tell us what you

33:15

know about this, And I mean it happens both

33:18

ways, but more often than not, it's it's

33:20

the police know that somebody there's

33:22

a good chance somebody would know something, and

33:25

they seek that person out. But the thing

33:27

of it is, it's a confidential

33:29

and reliable informant. So it

33:32

has to be someone that you can

33:35

build a case that they are reliable.

33:38

At George Wagner's bond hearing last year, agent

33:40

Ryan Scheidier told the court that one informant

33:43

had disclosed a deadly plot that the Wagner

33:45

family was planning on carrying out. It

33:47

included then Attorney General Mike

33:49

Dwine, Pike County Sheriff Charles

33:51

Reader, and Scheiderer himself. There

33:54

is a witness that testified

33:56

that she was present when Sure,

34:00

his brother, Jake, his mom, and his dad

34:03

were basically organizing

34:05

a retaliation plan should

34:08

they get arrested and charged, specifically

34:11

targeting myself and the wine

34:14

and Share for a year. Okay, And

34:17

according to the person who gave

34:19

you this information, when was that stage

34:24

summer of twenty eighteen. Anjanette

34:27

Levy heard Agent Scheiderer's testimony

34:29

that day. I think there's supposed to be

34:31

a couple of informants in this case, and

34:34

one of them, which is very interesting, happens

34:36

to be a woman who married Jake Wagner

34:39

when the family went to Alaska.

34:47

Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll

34:49

be back in a moment. Last

35:01

season, we talked about the Wagner suspicious

35:03

move to Alaska in June of twenty

35:06

seventeen, at the height of the rod and murder

35:08

investigation. They said this had been planned

35:10

for some time. The boys were looking

35:12

for good jobs up there, and

35:14

then Jake met a woman at

35:16

church. They became married, and

35:19

in the discovery documents that

35:22

detail what was handed over by

35:24

the state to the Wagner attorneys. It

35:26

states that there are several interviews

35:28

between a Bureau of Criminal Investigations

35:31

agent and the woman that

35:33

Jake Wagner married while he was living in Alaska.

35:36

So there are a number of interviews with her and recorded

35:38

phone calls between this

35:41

woman and Jake Wagner. What

35:46

about the witnesses who were left alive at

35:48

the scene the rod and children who were

35:50

spared that fateful night in twenty sixteen.

35:53

One of the kids was a three

35:55

year old toddler. If that child

35:57

witnessed the murder, I don't know if he's

36:00

said something when the investors came

36:02

in that pointed to possibly

36:04

someone in the Wagner family, because they

36:06

would have all known each other. You know, he's

36:09

eight now, if he had

36:11

any memory or had said something

36:13

at the time when they found him, is there

36:15

any potential that he might be called as a witness?

36:18

Although eight now, in Ohio

36:21

the rule is a child under

36:23

the age of ten is presumed incompetent

36:26

to testify. Now, if a judge does

36:29

what they call a border of that potential

36:32

witness and determines that the young person

36:34

does know the difference between telling the

36:36

truth and telling a lie. It's possible

36:38

that the judge could permit the testimony,

36:41

but boy, any defense attorney

36:43

are going to fight like crazy to keep

36:45

something like that out. It comes down

36:47

to the reliability. Is it a reliable

36:50

statement? Can you rely on

36:53

something that a three year old saw and something

36:56

that an eight year old years

36:58

after the fact is trying to explain.

37:00

It's tough, not impossible

37:03

to get a statement like that in, but I think highly

37:05

unlikely. Mike

37:07

Allen points it out a compelling entry in one

37:10

of the discovery documents that implies another

37:12

piece of the evidentiary puzzle. Is

37:14

there one piece of evidence just based

37:16

on what you've seen in terms of the discovery

37:18

list, that is the AHA

37:21

or something that really surprised you. Yeah,

37:23

there's definitely one thing, says trash

37:26

poll from June eighth, twenty

37:28

and seventeen, and that can only mean

37:30

one thing that DNA

37:33

is involved in this case. What

37:36

a trash poll is is when

37:38

somebody sets their trash out at the curb,

37:40

they do not have a privacy

37:43

interest anymore in that trash.

37:46

So it's open season for the

37:48

police if they want to go rooting

37:50

through somebody's trash and that's

37:52

how in many instances,

37:55

that's how law enforcement gets DNA

37:57

evidence is from trash polls.

38:00

That's the thing that closes the deal, right, that

38:02

that like closes the case essentially, that's

38:05

the part of the CSI thing

38:07

that you know, jurors watch and that's one

38:10

thing that's accurate. I mean, if it

38:12

gets into evidence, it's it's just devastating.

38:17

Another revelation we're likely to witness at

38:19

the trial is more information about the rodents

38:22

autopsy reports. Though the documents

38:24

were released months after the murders in twenty sixteen,

38:27

they were heavily redacted due to a gag

38:29

order imposed by the judge on the case. This

38:31

is just a situation where, you know, the

38:34

trial judge, who has to shepherd

38:37

these trials through fairly doesn't

38:39

want the public getting this information

38:41

before trial. One of the reasons being

38:44

you don't want a tainted jury pool,

38:46

and of course the prosecution they

38:48

don't want to telegraph anything

38:51

from that autopsy with

38:53

respect of their strategy. Reporter

38:56

James Pilcher told us what journalists were

38:58

able to glean from the initial really he

39:01

basically laid out where they were found, how

39:03

many times they were shot. You know, where they were

39:05

shot, and you know they

39:07

did list specifically where the kids,

39:09

the young kids were found. So

39:13

what can we expect from the full reports. A

39:15

good autopsy, I'll tell you a

39:18

lot about how the victim lived and how

39:20

they died and gets a

39:22

pivotal critical piece of the investigation

39:24

and possibly reveal information

39:27

that maybe only the killer would know. But

39:32

the most powerful part of the state's case

39:34

could come from the prosecutor's recreation

39:36

of the events of April twenty first, twenty

39:39

sixteen. According to forensics expert

39:41

Joseph Morgan, this narrative helps

39:43

give a voice to each member of the slain family.

39:47

It's something that we'll be revealing in real time

39:49

as the trials for Billy Angela and

39:51

George Wagner proceed. In

39:55

the case of the Masker in

39:58

Piked and every single

40:00

human remain every

40:03

body that was there has

40:06

an individual tale to

40:08

be told. The prosecution

40:10

is trying to paint a picture here, and they're going

40:12

to do that through these bodies there. That's

40:15

going to be the vessel they're going to travel through here.

40:17

And the more vibrant

40:19

that the prosecution can make that picture, the

40:22

more effective it shocks

40:24

the conscience of just

40:26

people that go about their normal day life. They don't

40:28

expect this type of thing to happen and

40:31

it is pure. More

40:38

on that next time. For

40:42

more information on the case and relevant photos,

40:44

follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore

40:47

Studios. The Pikedon Massacre Returned

40:50

to Pike County is executive produced by Stephanie

40:52

Lydecker and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing

40:55

and sound designed by executive producer Jared

40:57

Aston. Additional producing by Jeff

41:00

Andrew Becker and Chris Graves. The

41:02

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41:04

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