0:00

We've been tragically indoctrinated

0:02

to believe that we

0:04

actually are our achievements.

0:07

I'm here to be a billionaire.

0:09

I'm here to become this. I'm

0:11

here to be the most followed

0:13

person on TikTok. I'm here to

0:15

be whatever it may be. And

0:17

when we get confused in that

0:19

way, it breeds restlessness. You're

0:21

here to get free of the stuff

0:24

that binds you on the inside. How do

0:26

you define Dharma? So Dharma is

0:28

everything ranging from the core truth

0:30

of who you are, like the

0:32

Dharma of fire is to burn,

0:34

the Dharma of water is to

0:36

wet, the Dharma of Arjun, right?

0:38

His Dharma was to fight. But

0:41

he also had a Dharma as a husband, as a father,

0:43

as a son, as a king. So

0:46

our Dharma in our life, there's

0:48

not just one. We all have

0:50

so many different dharmas, both

0:52

in different stages of our life. You

0:55

were sexually abused and you had

0:57

a problem with eating disorder and

0:59

so on and so forth. What

1:02

does it feel when you are on

1:04

the other side of, like

1:06

you said, freeing yourself from this? Does

1:09

that feel nothing emotionally?

1:11

I feel when I revisit those

1:14

moments, like if

1:17

in my mind I were to think

1:19

back on the abuse or to

1:21

think back through the years when I was

1:23

struggling with bulimia. It's not that I feel

1:25

nothing, it's that I feel... Welcome

1:29

to another episode of the Spying Talk

1:31

Podcast. Today I'm blessed and honored to

1:33

have with me Sadhvizi. Sadhvizi,

1:36

welcome to the show. Thank you so much. I'm

1:38

so happy to be here with you. It's such an

1:40

honor and pleasure to have you on the podcast. And

1:44

for the last two days

1:47

of spending time here at Ashram,

1:49

and I think I've

1:51

always had this amazing

1:54

sense of peace and calm. And

1:57

Also I see the same in the face of the people.

2:00

If it's ah you know him

2:02

everybody heading to she could have

2:04

feel that light and I think

2:06

it's though many many years of

2:08

a double chef and though and

2:10

as he just shield which is

2:12

which is beautiful. I

2:15

was sitting in order some last

2:18

evening and dumb One thing

2:20

statue sort of in a shared

2:22

during that which I thought has

2:25

really been interesting was on

2:27

a lot of was a particularly

2:29

the youngster. We. Have

2:31

this restless mind. Where.

2:35

I need to constantly keep on doing

2:37

things I need to. constantly is on

2:39

I need to keep. I'm constantly in

2:41

our do things. So.

2:44

How do? How does one

2:47

find the balance? Of seen

2:49

that he would. I personally feel there's a

2:51

certain sense of rest is just listeners is

2:53

also required for you to pop in for

2:55

the. And at the same time not

2:57

get carried away by. Everything

3:00

and anything that is new and

3:02

that catches attention. Great!

3:05

So. First of

3:07

all, I would say if. There's

3:12

a difference between. Hundred,

3:15

She's. Excitement?

3:17

That's. How lady

3:20

and to rise and

3:22

rescue. Rats

3:24

listeners take has us.

3:27

Center. It.

3:30

Destabilizes as it takes us

3:32

are encouraging restlessness. His advice

3:35

that size the president now

3:37

me. Is not

3:39

correct. The present moment

3:41

is not right. Sensing something

3:43

is not like. Whether

3:46

it's because the next moment is going

3:48

to be a problem for me, sign

3:50

stressed about the future? Whether I'm rethinking

3:52

the past. Oh My. God. I made

3:54

a fool of myself. Sunni

3:58

in this moment. Her

4:00

Christmas is that. Can

4:03

fit. Fun thing you know. trust.

4:06

Em it in the future with us and to

4:08

there's. An

4:12

auto T right? Hook

4:14

here in the wild. Can

4:17

move forward. We.

4:19

Need an awareness of as she thinks.

4:21

First of all, we need an awareness

4:23

of our dharma. We. Need an

4:25

awareness that says this is what I'm put

4:27

on earth to do. That

4:31

in and of itself. Had

4:33

allies his ass and propel us

4:35

forward to her. Saw that times.

4:38

But we also need an awareness

4:41

that. We

4:44

are an instrument. And

4:46

the hands of the-and that there

4:48

is a slow as the universe

4:51

in this isn't separate from dharma,

4:53

but it's just another facet of

4:55

thinking about dharma. Were.

4:57

An instrument through which the divine.

5:00

Flat. There's.

5:04

Constant message. Rather

5:07

we speak about sure Steve the

5:09

creation. Whether we speak about procrit

5:11

the nature. Everything

5:14

other than supreme reality.

5:16

so or bad. Everything

5:19

else is in constant

5:21

motion. I won't

5:23

go into it. Too. Much philosophically that

5:26

one me speak about perversion.

5:28

procrit be. Crack

5:30

quit the as that which is in constant

5:32

motion. It's ah, it's our.

5:35

Physical body is it's our

5:37

car. Make the journey. It's

5:39

the drama that were going

5:41

through. It's the dharma Worse

5:43

a feeling. It's our roles.

5:46

It's our relationship. Ceasar thoughts

5:48

constant state. Of Motion

5:50

and. It's the

5:52

wave on. The. Ocean. And

5:55

so what? Allowing that

5:57

slow to flow through I the.

6:00

Not to start that. Dunga.

6:03

Flows before. It's.

6:05

Beautiful. You would never say oh I

6:08

should stop. Them. So

6:11

they done got can be

6:13

wine with their unchanging reality

6:15

Now the nature as and.

6:19

The. Actual. Physical

6:22

embodiment of the divine mother goddess.

6:24

The embodiment is her form as

6:26

the river. She's in motion. She

6:29

should flow. We did a lot of work

6:32

to make sure that she's slowing that her

6:34

flow is a veto and near my. Constant

6:37

free flowing and also clean in

6:40

the same us. In

6:43

I lions. We. Need

6:45

to allow a constant flow

6:47

of the river of life

6:49

through. And I mention this

6:51

right here because you don't

6:53

need to restlessness to be

6:55

the catalyst to propel you

6:57

for it. You need an

6:59

awareness that we are what

7:01

we call it. Nimitz Mister

7:03

A month. I'm. Betting.

7:08

That tool. That ah from

7:11

resigned amid the math and. That

7:14

as being just an instrument.

7:17

In the hands of the divine.

7:20

So that's what propels us is

7:22

I am here as an instrument.

7:24

I am here to be. A

7:27

tool. As a slow

7:29

of the divine on earth. And so every

7:31

day when I was caught. It's

7:34

not restlessness that propels a

7:36

sad as bad, it's a

7:38

sense of. How how

7:40

is the Divine going to slow?

7:42

Show me. How

7:44

can I be an instrument, a

7:46

channel as vehicle, a vessel that

7:48

one pay? The other part going

7:50

back to Dharma is dime is

7:52

not on the outside, so it's

7:55

not just a matter of what.

7:57

I'm doing. A

8:00

system My next thing. So my

8:02

dharma to how do you defend

8:04

Doma. That young so it

8:06

might die. Law is not just

8:08

what I'm doing, but it's actually

8:10

all air. How

8:13

I am understanding and transforming

8:15

my awareness. Had

8:18

you to sign dharma. While that. A

8:21

podcast in and of itself? Or a

8:23

series of them that for now I

8:25

would just say simplistically on. It's

8:30

a tapestry woven.

8:33

Of threads of. Duty.

8:37

Will. Truth.

8:43

Protection. Laws

8:48

of Nature of Laws as the

8:50

universe. So dharma is everything ranging

8:53

from the core truth of who

8:55

you are. Like the

8:57

dharma of fire is to burn. The.

9:00

Dharma of water is to. The.

9:03

Dharma has been guy is to

9:05

slow. Ring Noida

9:07

yo! The dharma

9:09

of our June Right lives of

9:11

other I'd He said I'm premier

9:13

treatise on dharma, his dharma ways

9:15

to save button but he also

9:17

had a damn. As

9:20

a husband. He had a dime

9:22

as a father. He

9:24

had a dharma as a son. She.

9:26

Had a dharma as a king. So

9:29

in seven hundred vs of the

9:32

bhagavad gita, One. By one

9:34

person is trying to get him to

9:36

say he was focusing most and his

9:38

dharma. Has a way. As

9:41

the one to restore that a

9:43

house, but if the Bhagavad Gita

9:45

had taken place in the living

9:48

room of the palace once they

9:50

had, yeah? One every

9:52

saying and the war was over and

9:54

they were back. She'd. have a

9:57

difference if the conversation took

9:59

place as the were walking

10:01

up through the Himalayas at

10:03

the end, the end of

10:05

their lives, it would

10:08

have been a completely different conversation

10:11

around Dharma. So our

10:14

Dharma in our life, there's

10:17

not just one, we

10:20

all have so many different dharmas,

10:22

both in different stages of our life.

10:25

Our Dharma as a student is different

10:27

than our Dharma as a householder, different

10:30

than our Dharma as a sannyās, different

10:33

from our Dharma as a child

10:35

to our parents or a parent to our

10:37

children. But then there's

10:40

also universal Dharma, which

10:43

is just things like, be

10:46

honest, have

10:48

integrity, be generous. All

10:51

of these principles and tenets of

10:53

what you would consider a dharmic

10:56

life, they're universal.

10:58

They apply to everyone. It doesn't

11:00

matter what phase of life you're

11:02

in, it doesn't matter any of

11:05

your relationships, we all should

11:07

be honest. We all should have

11:10

compassion, we all should be generous, we

11:12

all should be truthful, we all, I

11:14

mean, that's universal

11:16

Dharma. Then lastly, we

11:19

have, in addition to all

11:21

of those other aspects of Dharma, we

11:24

also have our Dharma to ourselves,

11:28

which primarily at the

11:31

core is to

11:33

wake up into the truth of who we are.

11:35

Like that's actually why we took birth. No

11:38

one took birth to become

11:40

the CEO of a company or

11:43

the president of a company or to make

11:45

a certain amount of money or

11:47

to achieve a certain goal. We

11:50

took birth to

11:53

wake up, to realize

11:56

that Divinity

11:58

of the truth of. Yeah. That

12:01

we are not permit from. The

12:06

supreme reality. That.

12:08

With Yoga. When. We

12:10

speak about yeah. Well.

12:12

That merging of the geez

12:14

off my and the Potomac.

12:16

my that journey from being

12:18

an individual self to that

12:21

status somebody. That

12:23

the dawn. Of

12:27

week. So.

12:29

That's again universal dharma, but on

12:31

an internal deep level rather than

12:33

a how we need to the

12:35

wild level. But then I also

12:37

have an internal dharma. To

12:40

my particular and you need car

12:43

max? Package and Journey. Each

12:46

of us. Have. Our

12:49

own unique. Car

12:51

max journey that were on. Karmic

12:54

package that we come on this

12:57

earth west and. We.

13:00

Have to. really it. On.

13:05

Give. Voice to it. Live.

13:07

And so when I speak about

13:09

dire my, that's that's what I

13:11

mean. But let's let's go back.

13:14

I don't want to. I don't

13:16

want to miss the threat of

13:18

the original question. About that, the

13:20

restlessness. Of the mind.

13:23

So what? That

13:25

restlessness. Is

13:29

antithetical. Shula.

13:33

Being anchored and grounded.

13:35

In truth. Because

13:38

the restlessness says present moment is not

13:40

right and future moment will not be.

13:44

On last I run the show and

13:47

even in the midst of the treatise

13:49

on dharma but one Krishna makes it

13:51

very clear to our june. My

13:54

friend, you're not actually doing anything. I'm

13:57

the do or. You're not actually the

13:59

do or any. While we're going to play this

14:01

game, we're gonna play this drama. You will play

14:04

that role. But

14:06

Do Not. Actually

14:10

start to think that that so

14:12

you so what? Over

14:18

mean rest and overcoming the

14:20

constant movement of the mind.

14:23

Is actually a very important call and

14:26

especially for you says he began so

14:28

I'll I'll come back down from like

14:30

the really that. Philosophy and will

14:32

just get back in Shale. Overcoming.

14:36

That of the mind. but it was a

14:38

beautiful. Diversion

14:40

and Dharma and. We've.

14:44

Been tragically. Indoctrinated

14:49

to believe. That

14:51

we actually are our achievements. That

14:54

we are our accomplishments, that we

14:56

are our roles. Whether I've become

14:58

the Cel were the president or

15:00

a successful this or that we.

15:03

Believe that that is our perp.

15:05

I'm here to be a billionaire.

15:07

I'm here to be com of

15:09

this. I'm here to be the

15:11

most followed person on tic toc.

15:13

I'm here to be whatever it

15:15

may be. And

15:21

when we get confused and. It

15:25

breeds just. Because

15:27

then we are constantly having to

15:29

live every moment. All about. What

15:32

I'm doing. What I'm doing. What I'm doing. What

15:35

I'm doing. And we forgot to ask who. Who

15:39

am? I want

15:41

to me his so it. For.

15:44

Your generation and for everyone's

15:46

generation. In any case, I

15:48

would say it's really important.

15:51

She'll. Realize

15:53

and has taken. That

15:56

you're not hear about some kind of

15:58

an achievement. You're

16:00

not here. That can kind of.

16:03

Specific attainment Specific.

16:09

Piece of work. You're

16:11

here for your an hour. You're here

16:13

to get free of the stuff that

16:15

binds he when the inside and so

16:17

if you feel as plus. I

16:21

would actually say what might be

16:23

counter intuitive which is slowdown. It

16:28

means you're not including glanced, what

16:30

is it that's propelling you and

16:32

what propels most of us is

16:34

a sense that we're not? Doesn't

16:37

matter how much I achieve, it's not and us. Until

16:40

and unless I'm number One. Until

16:42

And unless I'm First Intel. Unless

16:44

I've had a million views. Until

16:47

And unless I've had a million

16:49

dollars. Whatever, it is my benchmark.

16:51

Is I'm not sad. And

16:53

the minute I got there, Then. There's

16:56

another benchmark. Than I'm

16:58

still not satisfied. That

17:02

drives of the mind for

17:04

my mom game more more

17:06

more. Right. that's never satisfied.

17:09

Is. Actually are down. And

17:12

so when you notice that. Would.

17:15

Rather than speed up.

17:19

Stop and say there. Were.

17:22

Like I lost. What

17:25

Am I running toward? What

17:28

Am I running from? What

17:30

feeling of inadequacy? Not

17:33

soul mess in security?

17:35

Fear? Am I running

17:38

some. That

17:40

I think that somehow if I

17:42

make enough money, if I scale

17:44

the corporate ladder high enough, then

17:46

I will be worthy. Of

17:48

occupying my place on planet Earth. Is.

17:53

That restlessness is that. I

17:56

would say completely stopped temporarily.

17:59

and meditate Until there

18:01

is grounding and anchoring in, I am

18:03

enough. I

18:07

am full, I am whole, I am

18:09

complete in the very nature of who

18:11

I am. And from

18:13

that fullness and wholeness and completeness.

18:17

But if I don't have that anchoring

18:19

and grounding first, then

18:21

it all becomes about me, me, me. What

18:24

I'm doing, what I'm achieving, what I'm

18:27

attaining, who's blocking my way, who I

18:29

need to get rid of, who I

18:31

can use to get ahead, then

18:34

everything becomes competition. And

18:36

I'm never satisfied. You

18:40

said that, you know, become the

18:42

vehicle of Divine's

18:44

plan. Do

18:47

you think that we

18:49

get in our own way to

18:53

block the

18:55

plan that God has for you by

18:58

not being in alignment with

19:00

the Divine so that, like

19:04

you said, how Krishna executed what

19:06

he wanted through Arjuna. If,

19:11

and the basis of this is each

19:14

of us, the

19:17

God has a plan for us and

19:19

we are getting in our own way. Absolutely.

19:23

And if you were to say that, okay, these

19:25

are the few things we

19:27

can do, maybe both ways in terms of these are the

19:29

few things that's actually blocking for the most of the people

19:31

in terms of getting, being

19:34

that vehicle that the God has a plan

19:36

for you. Great. So

19:39

yeah, we absolutely are our own worst

19:41

enemies. We absolutely get

19:43

in our own way. Here's

19:45

the thing about the universe. It's

19:49

very patient. The

19:52

universe, and when I say the universe,

19:54

I say the universe instead of God because

19:56

when I say the universe, I say the universe instead of

19:58

God. we speak about

20:00

God and I won't go off on a very

20:04

long digression into

20:06

this, but when we speak about God, God

20:10

means different things to different people. When

20:12

some of us say God, we think about

20:14

the infinite supreme

20:16

reality, Vriman. When

20:19

some of us think about God, we think about

20:22

Vishnu and Vavtas. We think about Krishna, we

20:24

think about Rama who are very much here,

20:29

engaged in action on

20:31

earth. We

20:37

pray to different aspects of that divine and

20:39

that's going to inform how we think about

20:42

God's plan

20:44

for us, for example.

20:46

So when

20:49

I say the universe, I

20:51

mean that divine universe,

20:53

that intelligent universe, that

20:56

creative universe, that energy

20:59

of divinity, but

21:01

that also we speak of as grace. So

21:05

without getting caught up in semantics, that's what I mean when I

21:07

say the universe. I don't actually just

21:09

mean the stars and the suns and

21:11

this. I mean that whole intelligent energy,

21:15

that whole capital P plan and

21:17

the capital P plan are all of it. So

21:23

the universe absolutely has a plan for us. But

21:28

it's very patient. That plan

21:30

is, that agenda is that we all

21:32

should wake up. As I

21:36

said before, that's why we were given birth.

21:39

So the agenda is we all will wake up.

21:42

We will become free of

21:46

ignorance, free of illusion, free

21:48

of that which keeps us separate, free of that

21:50

which keeps us stuck. But

21:54

the universe is patient. And

21:56

so not this

21:58

life. Okay, next. life. There's

22:01

a beautiful

22:03

teaching that

22:05

says if you imagine a mountain that's

22:08

a mile wide and

22:10

a mile tall and

22:13

once every hundred years a

22:16

bird flies by that mountain with

22:18

a silk scarf in its beak

22:21

and it runs that silk scarf along

22:23

the side of that mountain once every

22:25

hundred years. The

22:28

amount of time it will take for

22:30

that mountain to be

22:32

eroded down is

22:35

as long as we have been

22:37

in this cycle of birth

22:40

and rebirth. So

22:43

it really gives you a much vaster

22:45

idea of how long this has been

22:47

going on. So the universe is

22:49

patient. You want to get in your own

22:51

way this life? Okay, next life.

22:54

You want to get in your own way next life again?

22:56

Okay, the life after that. But

23:02

we need to ask ourselves what's

23:05

the point? If I know what

23:07

my goal is, if

23:09

I know what the plan is, if

23:12

I know that I've been

23:14

put here as this beautiful,

23:16

incredible divine incarnation, which we

23:18

all are, we

23:20

all are these

23:23

incarnations of these embodiments

23:25

of manifestations of reflections

23:27

of the divine on

23:29

earth. Why waste our time?

23:32

Why the cake? Every scripture

23:35

we have is some way to

23:37

try to help us get unstuck.

23:39

How to deal with the monkey

23:41

mind, how to overcome your ego,

23:43

how to live your dharma. It's

23:46

all about, hey, wake up,

23:49

get free, come on, leave this

23:52

stuff. So yes,

23:55

we are our own worst enemies. That's part of

23:57

the Leela, that divine.

24:00

It's part of the workings of

24:03

our mind. But we're also

24:05

given the tools to get free of that, which

24:09

is introspection, meditation,

24:14

surrender. When we

24:16

come to the banks of Ganga, we

24:20

let go. Ganga

24:23

is that goddess of freedom,

24:25

that goddess of moksha. But

24:28

as I always remind everyone, it's not

24:30

just moksha after you die. People

24:33

bring ashes here, so

24:36

their loved ones can attain moksha after

24:40

they're dead. And that's beautiful. And

24:43

it works, of course. But

24:46

she doesn't only give moksha after death. She's

24:50

the bringer of liberation. And

24:53

so we become what we call

24:56

jeevan mukti. That's freedom

24:58

while living. So we offer to

25:00

Ganga not just our ashes after

25:02

we're dead, but

25:04

we offer that which is keeping us sick,

25:07

that which is getting us in

25:09

our own way, our

25:12

own egos, our fears, our

25:15

illusions, our anger, our grudges,

25:17

our competitions, our

25:20

jealousies, our false

25:22

identifications. We offer

25:24

all of that, and

25:27

we pray for her to make us free. That's

25:30

the work we have to do, is to recognize, where

25:32

am I getting in my own way? Some

25:36

of it is really unconscious

25:38

stuff. Some of it is more

25:41

subconscious self-sabotage that

25:45

we do on so many different levels. But

25:50

Ganga teaches us, just let

25:52

it go. And if you're not on the

25:54

banks of Ganga, don't worry. Offer it to any water body. Offer

25:57

it into a fire. Offer it in your

26:00

own way. your prayers, but don't feel like

26:02

you're stuck with it. Yes, we have an ego. It

26:05

doesn't mean that that has to run our show. Yes,

26:08

we've all had challenges and obstacles and

26:10

difficulties and even trauma and they've left

26:13

repercussions on us. That doesn't

26:15

mean it has to define us. That

26:18

doesn't mean that has to be the identity. Yes,

26:21

we all have fears and we have desires,

26:23

but that doesn't mean that

26:25

that keeps us from living

26:28

our dharma. Arjun had fears. The

26:30

whole Bhagavad Gita is in response to

26:32

Arjun's fear, to his doubt.

26:35

So these teachings are teachings to help

26:38

us get out of our own way.

26:41

They're essentially God saying

26:43

to us, come

26:45

on, Sari, stop.

26:49

I've given you these tools of awakening.

26:52

Use them. Sadhguru,

26:54

you came to India 27 years

26:56

back and then

26:59

stayed here at the ashram to

27:02

what you were saying in a

27:04

way that you were, you know,

27:06

sort of living

27:08

a different purpose per se before

27:11

this and then you came here and

27:14

then, you know, you are impacting so

27:16

many lives now. So what internal shifts

27:20

made you do this? So when

27:22

I first came, I didn't

27:24

come due to any internal

27:26

shift other than

27:29

just wanting a vacation.

27:31

I came with

27:33

a backpack on what I thought

27:36

was just going to be a three-month adventure I

27:38

had taken one semester off

27:40

of my PhD program.

27:43

I was an avid traveler,

27:47

loved traveling and had been in

27:49

a constant unbroken

27:55

PhD program and so

27:57

I thought I need… need

28:00

a break. So

28:02

I came with a math just

28:05

on this adventure

28:07

trip, but I had

28:10

an incredibly powerful experience

28:13

of awakening, of

28:16

self-realization, of God

28:18

realization, standing

28:21

on the banks of Ganga, unexpected,

28:24

unanticipated, just by

28:27

grace. I was 25, I

28:33

had been an academic, I was a scientist, I

28:35

was not a

28:37

mystic, I was not a spiritual person,

28:39

I was not a meditator, but

28:42

once that happened, then

28:45

there were so many shifts

28:50

on how I thought and how I lived.

28:52

I mean, everything shifted inside me. My heart

28:55

shifted, my awareness shifted,

28:57

my mind shifted,

28:59

everything shifted. The primary

29:01

way that I've come to talk

29:04

about these shifts actually

29:06

is in what

29:08

ended up becoming the title

29:10

of my memoir, Hollywood to

29:12

the Himalayas, because

29:16

it was not only

29:18

the physical journey that

29:20

my body took, quite

29:23

literally from Hollywood to the

29:25

Himalayas, but

29:27

because that's where I grew up,

29:29

I spent all of my childhood

29:31

in Hollywood, literally. But

29:35

the mindset shift from

29:38

what I call the Hollywood way of thinking

29:40

to the Himalayan way of thinking, that

29:42

was really the main shift. And the

29:46

Hollywood way of thinking says, you

29:49

are your body. Its

29:51

size, its shape, its color,

29:53

its race, its religion, its

29:56

success, its roles,

29:59

its relationship. relationships, it's rung

30:02

on the social ladder on the career

30:04

ladder, it's followers

30:06

on Instagram or TikTok

30:08

or Facebook or whatever it may be,

30:10

but that's who you are You

30:13

are your bank balance. You are all of those

30:15

things And so

30:17

we suffer We

30:20

suffer a constant feeling of I'm not

30:22

enough Not

30:24

beautiful enough not successful enough not

30:27

Intelligent enough not happy enough

30:30

not popular enough We

30:33

compete constantly with each

30:35

other We

30:38

bring suffering to others because we're constantly

30:41

trying to move others out of the

30:43

way where we feel not enough So

30:46

I need to push others out of the

30:48

way or use them in some way. We

30:50

objectify others we objectify ourselves And

30:54

we're miserable The

30:57

Himalayan way of thinking says

30:59

you have a body That

31:03

you need You

31:05

are soul you are spirit you

31:07

are consciousness you are divinity and

31:10

That for me was the main shift.

31:13

I came here thinking I was my body.

31:15

I Was

31:18

what it looked like The

31:20

days I was happy with it life was

31:23

good the days I was not happy with

31:25

it life was not good something needed to

31:27

be done that I was

31:29

my degrees That

31:32

I had you know a degree from Stanford University So

31:35

I was a very intelligent person that I was

31:37

this I was that but

31:39

I had These challenges

31:41

and these struggles and these obstacles

31:43

and this trauma so I was

31:46

Not worthy enough not good enough

31:50

and I was Self

31:53

identifying Based

31:56

on what I

31:58

did what I could do what I knew,

32:00

what I achieved, what happened to me, how

32:03

other people looked at me, how they talked about

32:06

me, how they thought about me. And

32:10

so I suffered. And

32:12

I come here and I have

32:14

this extraordinary darshan of Mother Ganga.

32:17

I find myself at the

32:20

feet of an extraordinary

32:27

master, an extraordinary being,

32:29

an extraordinary guru who

32:32

I didn't even know at the time was

32:34

one of the most revered masters not only

32:36

in India but in the world. And

32:41

he told me who just saw me did it, who

32:43

just saw me kid and underserved Vasiji. The

32:46

president of Paramartha Nikathana, he

32:50

really showed me and

32:52

taught me how I wasn't the

32:54

body, I wasn't the story, I wasn't the

32:56

roles, I wasn't the relationships, I wasn't any

32:58

of that, I wasn't the history,

33:01

I wasn't the

33:03

neurosis, I wasn't any of that. But

33:06

that who I was was divine. And

33:10

that shift in my mind

33:13

was this shift from suffering to

33:16

an end of suffering. Beautiful.

33:22

You have covered a ton in this

33:25

book on the journey. And

33:27

one thing that really stood out

33:29

to me, which you mentioned a

33:32

while ago, was give

33:35

you suffering, give you

33:38

pain, give you resentment, whatever you

33:40

are holding to nature.

33:44

In your case you did that to Mother

33:48

Ganga. So can you

33:50

talk about that experience

33:53

on what that experience was and how

33:55

people can probably do that with other

33:57

form of nature? But

34:00

as I was saying earlier, we hold

34:02

on. We

34:04

hold on to our anger, to grudges, to

34:08

false identifications of who we think we

34:10

are. I am

34:12

this, I am that. And

34:16

they're equally damaging whether it's something

34:18

positive or something negative, because

34:20

they're both false. And

34:22

they both box us in. So whether it's

34:25

I am the smartest, or

34:27

I am the stupidest, I am the best,

34:29

or I am the worst, they're

34:32

equally damaging. Because

34:34

they're equally untrue, and they keep

34:36

us equally stuck and equally trapped.

34:40

The I am the best feels better in

34:42

the moment than I am the worst. But

34:46

it's the lull of ignorance. You

34:50

know, it's how good a chocolate ice cream

34:52

cone feels in the moment without realizing the stomach

34:54

ache it's going to give you later on. We

35:00

hold on to our pain. We

35:04

hold on to our history. We

35:06

hold on to all of these

35:08

stories that we tell ourselves. We

35:10

hold on to attachments and expectations

35:12

of how the world should be,

35:14

how other people should

35:17

behave, how

35:19

they should think about us. And when

35:21

that doesn't happen, we

35:24

suffer. And

35:26

so what Sujesamiji had me

35:28

do was quite literally give

35:31

my pain and anger to

35:33

Ganga. And it's not just about

35:36

giving it to nature. Ganga

35:38

is really the mother goddess. As I

35:40

said, she is the bringer of liberation.

35:43

So there's a power

35:45

here that is different

35:49

from just the power of nature.

35:54

Because it's actually this mother goddess

35:56

liberating Shakti. And

36:01

he had me really offer it to her. Let

36:04

it go. Give it back to the mother. Give her your

36:06

anger. Give her your pain. And

36:10

I did. It wasn't easy. I

36:13

didn't think it was going to work. In

36:16

fact, I was pretty sure it wouldn't work. I had a...

36:19

You weren't sure that your PhD logic

36:21

and science... Of course.

36:23

Of course. I was just going

36:25

to say I was a, you know, PhD student in

36:27

psychology. We don't give pain to the river. But...

36:34

I did. And

36:36

I discovered that I became actually

36:39

free from it. And since

36:41

then, I've had the blessing of being

36:43

able to guide other people through this

36:45

process. And what I have seen

36:47

is the incredible power that it has on so many.

36:51

But again, as you bring up nature, it

36:53

doesn't have to be only Mother Ganga, because

36:55

a lot of people can't get here.

36:59

Sorry to interrupt, but can you give your

37:02

pain to the nature? Like

37:04

how do you feel? So, yeah. So

37:07

what I mean is really quite

37:10

literally, it's... You

37:13

close your eyes and you

37:15

literally feel, because we feel pain and

37:17

anger in our body. It's

37:20

not just in our mind. The reason it

37:22

gives us ulcers and heart attacks is

37:26

because it literally exists in our

37:28

body. And

37:31

so the moment you close your eyes

37:33

and you dive in, you feel it.

37:35

You can actually locate that. The

37:38

pain, the anger, the grudge,

37:40

the memories. And

37:44

you literally pull it

37:46

up. Can

37:49

you tangibly feel that

37:51

in your hands? And

37:54

if not tangibly, don't worry. You can just envision

37:56

that it's there. All of the memories

37:59

are there. The is just poor than out of your

38:01

mind, out of your heart. Into

38:04

your hands, In my case

38:06

I had water in my hands from the

38:08

river and side with pouring from my mind

38:10

from my heart from mind that some all

38:13

of these places that you hold that anger

38:15

and pain. Into the ladder.

38:18

You could do it was soil. You

38:21

could pull some soil up from

38:23

under the base of ed beautiful

38:25

tree. And

38:27

offered into that soil and then offer the

38:29

soil back to the base of the tree.

38:34

We. Do it into fire into are

38:36

ya gonna ceremonies you offer You hold

38:38

the some agree in your hand. And

38:41

ensue. That some agree you asked

38:44

for. The

38:47

anger is that pain that

38:49

grades the story. Of

38:52

and then you offer that Saw

38:54

exactly. Exactly so. It's

38:56

a very visual. It's

38:58

a very tactile. It's

39:00

a very active experience

39:02

as. Giving.

39:05

But. The truth is. We. Don't actually

39:08

have any other way. If we hold

39:10

on to these things, They keep us.

39:14

And we cannot live on. And

39:17

so we that that not because what

39:19

happens is okay. Not

39:21

because the other person was not in the wrong. But.

39:24

Because holding on keeps us from being trained.

39:28

Suthers. Yo follow Chris into that

39:31

trade on you had of Etti.

39:33

it'll. Dot. Are grown

39:35

in the sense that you were sexually abused.

39:38

Com. And you hard

39:40

problem with eating disorder and so

39:42

on and so forth. Hum

39:44

and. You know, This

39:49

is more from the perspective of what does

39:51

it feel. When. You are

39:53

on the other side of like

39:55

you said, free yourself from this

39:58

rights. Com. Maybe

40:00

someone who is going through all that

40:02

see a breakup or maybe someone was

40:04

going to our financial situation and life.

40:06

or maybe some somebody just got cheated

40:09

or and so on and so forth.

40:11

A things always happen and we foiled

40:13

a lot of back to us. And

40:16

when we do that.pain

40:18

that angle anal and

40:20

and.that. Suffering that we

40:23

go through. When.

40:25

You free yourself. And

40:27

when you revisit that event, You

40:30

know, District

40:33

see nothing emotionally.

40:37

I feel when I read the heck. That

40:39

now me. Like

40:42

of in my mind I were to

40:44

think back. On

40:46

the abuse. Or to think back to the

40:49

years and I was struggling with. believe me, It's

40:52

not that I feel nothing, it's

40:54

I fear extraordinary compassion. For

40:57

is a young girl for the young

41:00

while mean she was struggling the young

41:02

girl as a be as the young

41:04

woman when I was suffering from the

41:06

Millenia I feel incredible concessions for her.

41:13

And I don't feel like she

41:15

is nice. And

41:17

same able to see her and

41:19

to feel that live and to

41:21

feel that compassion. to feel a

41:24

sense of righteous anger as in

41:26

hey, that's wrong, That shouldn't have

41:28

happened. In the same

41:30

way that we feel righteous anger when you.

41:33

Read on the news that. Some.

41:36

Young child was kidnapped or raped

41:38

or harm type of stuff should

41:40

make a hanger. Spirituality.

41:43

Does Not mean our you can just read. All of

41:45

that and you see anything? It's

41:48

been that that being spiritual.

41:51

Best us does make but

41:53

not angry and I'll lay.

41:57

The handicap silence or have someone

41:59

else. or harm someone else. You read

42:01

the news. You

42:03

feel, if

42:06

there's something you can do, you want

42:09

to do it. If there's

42:11

nothing you can do, you take a moment,

42:13

you close your eyes, you pray. But

42:18

it doesn't paralyze your life. You

42:21

don't then, when you put down the newspaper

42:24

or turn off the computer, you

42:26

don't then move through your world feeling

42:31

like you are

42:33

that person. You

42:36

understand that this

42:38

happened to a being to whom

42:40

it shouldn't have. As

42:44

humans, we have a righteous

42:46

indignation at the fact that this happened

42:48

that should not happen. But

42:51

that righteous indignation does not paralyze

42:53

our lives and we

42:55

do not identify as it. So

42:57

I can see that and

43:00

I can feel a righteous

43:03

indignation that that should not have

43:05

happened while at the same

43:07

time I can feel great compassion for her

43:10

while at the same time I can feel

43:12

great compassion for the

43:14

perpetrator. Because I

43:17

can see him not as

43:19

a monster, not as an

43:22

evil being, but

43:24

as a scared, confused,

43:28

off the track man

43:32

who was just as haunted by what

43:35

he had done as I was. And

43:38

so I'm able to to see

43:40

that with the

43:43

compassion. I'm able to look back on myself

43:45

as an adolescent, as

43:48

a woman in my early 20s struggling

43:50

with bulimia and to feel great compassion

43:52

for that being. But

43:56

I don't feel, oh that is

43:58

me. I'm not caring. that

44:00

identity in the world. When

44:03

I think about that it doesn't trigger

44:05

me into then falling

44:07

back into any of that.

44:09

It doesn't bring back feelings

44:12

that that

44:15

paralyzed me, that

44:17

hijacked my mind, my heart, my

44:19

emotions, my identity, any of that.

44:23

How easy or difficult or you

44:26

know is it to

44:28

really distance yourself and say that you know

44:30

make peace with that and then also so

44:32

that that's not me and you

44:35

know not carry that identity. So

44:38

it's important to realize it's not distancing. I'm

44:41

not cutting myself off from it and that's

44:43

really important because then you get into repression

44:46

and suppression and denial and

44:48

then you just become like a volcano ready

44:50

to explode. It's actually

44:53

about healing and letting go which

44:56

is very different. It's

44:59

about letting go of that

45:01

identification. I mean the truth is if

45:03

you said to me show

45:06

me the girl who was abused, show

45:10

me the young woman who was bulimic. I

45:13

couldn't. There isn't one cell in

45:15

my body today that

45:17

was there in either of those times, not one. She

45:21

quite literally doesn't exist. So

45:24

it's not a matter of distancing

45:26

or repression. It's a

45:28

matter of real acknowledgement that

45:30

yes that happened, no

45:33

that shouldn't have happened, but

45:37

no that isn't the being who

45:40

sits here. And

45:44

so it's a real deep

45:47

awareness and

45:50

relinquishing of the attachment

45:52

to it. So

45:55

it's that. Was it easy

45:57

or hard? Oh it was definitely difficult. It's

45:59

a big deal. Definitely not easy, but

46:02

it's It's

46:06

letting go of the thing that keeps you stuck And

46:10

so as long as you really want to

46:12

be unstuck You

46:14

that Doesn't

46:17

mean it's easy But it

46:19

means you recognize Either I

46:21

hold on to this and it keeps me stuck forever

46:24

Or I learned to let it go so I can be free I

46:29

Wow, and this is such a

46:31

profound insight You

46:34

know for me to carry this is this is really amazing.

46:36

So You

46:39

have been you know in

46:41

this Ashram for

46:43

almost 27 years and you know,

46:46

you have taken the vows of

46:49

monk food and you know So

46:53

let's just assume that You

46:57

have to now go back to

46:59

the wheel I'm not saying you know

47:01

go back to the world and leave

47:03

like the rest of us not as a monk

47:05

now What are the three

47:08

things that would that you would take

47:10

from this last 27 years into

47:12

the real world? Just

47:14

three first of all This

47:18

is not the unreal world. Yeah,

47:20

I Realize that To

47:24

find Definitely

47:26

need a different definition of real I

47:30

know what you're talking about. Yeah, but

47:32

to me a World

47:34

in which we're focused on the truth of

47:37

who we are rather than the accumulation

47:39

of stuff It's

47:42

certainly just as real if not

47:44

a whole lot realer But

47:47

I know what you mean. You mean the external

47:50

material World

47:52

of some sada shall we say if I

47:54

were to take three things from here,

47:56

you know, it's it's hard because

48:02

Really, as a monk, the

48:07

only aspect of quote-unquote

48:10

monkhood is I'm celibate. So

48:13

I went from being a non-celebit person to

48:16

being a celibate person. I

48:18

went from being someone who wore

48:20

shirts and t-shirts to being someone

48:22

who wears, sorry. That's

48:26

the only aspect of the monk-ness.

48:31

The rest of it was an

48:33

aspect of a transformation of self

48:37

that would stay with me, even

48:40

if you sent me back into some city. So

48:42

even if you said, okay, you no longer can be a

48:44

monk, you

48:47

are hereby required to

48:49

abandon your celibacy. Well,

48:54

even if you required me to abandon that, you

48:58

couldn't undo the internal changes

49:00

that had happened within me. And

49:03

so I feel like I would actually carry all of

49:06

it back. There isn't a

49:08

way to tease apart the

49:11

lessons that I've learned here from the being of

49:13

a celibate.

49:17

I mean, you know, I always say one of the most powerful

49:19

lessons I've learned here is to

49:21

ask not what for

49:23

me, but to ask what through

49:25

me. That

49:28

I used to always think what for me, like

49:30

what's in this for me, whereas

49:32

I learned how much happier life is when

49:34

you ask what through me. But

49:37

that has nothing to do with sex. Even

49:40

if you said you must stop being

49:42

celibate. Well,

49:46

I wouldn't go back to asking what for me. The

49:51

two things are not tied together. Even

49:53

if you said you cannot wear saffron robes,

49:56

you must wear cut off jeans and T-shirts.

50:00

I still wouldn't start asking what for me. And

50:05

so I don't know that you

50:08

can separate the

50:10

lessons and the transformation of a

50:12

spiritual life and

50:16

simply lump it in with

50:20

abstinence from sex and wearing of

50:22

saffron robes. Because

50:24

it's a transformation of a spiritual

50:26

practice. And that's why we always

50:28

say you can live

50:30

a spiritual life, a

50:33

deeply rich spiritual life, even

50:36

if you're not a monastic. There's

50:38

no rule that says you must give

50:40

up sex in order to be enlightened,

50:44

awakened, in peace, any of these

50:46

things. It is

50:48

the Dharma of

50:51

a small group of

50:53

us, percentage-wise, whose Dharma really is like,

50:57

Arjun's Dharma was to be a warrior, my Dharma

50:59

is to be a monastic, a monk. But

51:03

even for those whose Dharma is

51:06

different, they

51:08

can still have all of the rest of it. They

51:11

may be in jeans and a t-shirt instead of

51:13

saffron robes. They

51:16

may be having sex rather than being abstinent. But

51:20

I hope that they still learn to ask

51:22

what's through me instead of what for me.

51:26

I hope that they still

51:28

learn to bring

51:31

all of the spiritual principles

51:33

and tenets into

51:35

their daily life. That they

51:37

meditate and pray and do Yajna and

51:40

do Arthi. I

51:42

would do all of those things whether I was

51:44

celibate in orange robes or not. Because

51:47

what I have seen is these are the things that

51:49

bring deep meaning in my

51:51

life. I

51:57

would carry it all with me.

52:02

The reason I asked that

52:04

was for us, you

52:06

know, who live in the material

52:09

world where we

52:11

are chasing things, milestones

52:13

and whatnot, right? So

52:17

you know, what we

52:19

could learn. So what three

52:21

tips can I give you? Okay, all right. All

52:24

right. Yeah. So

52:28

that's a fair question, different question, a

52:31

good question. So I

52:33

think number one would be the ask not

52:35

what for me, but ask what through me.

52:38

I think that's a really powerful one. We

52:42

know from science,

52:45

from all kinds of scientific

52:48

psychological studies that giving,

52:50

serving, altruism actually

52:53

brings much more happiness. Than

52:56

getting and obtaining. And

52:58

this isn't just from a monastic spiritual standpoint.

53:01

This is from psychological

53:03

studies from science. Number

53:06

two, I

53:10

would say remember who you are. When

53:13

you forget who you are, you start to think that

53:15

you are what you do. And

53:18

therefore what you do becomes of critical

53:20

importance. And you

53:22

become very attached to those

53:25

fruits of your labor. Because

53:27

if this is what I do, well, then it

53:30

better work out. It

53:32

better be number one. It better be the best. Everyone

53:35

better love it. Because

53:37

that's who I am. If

53:40

what I do is who I am, then

53:43

there's all that attachment, all that expectation. So

53:46

I would say know who you are, which

53:49

is not what you do. Shift

53:52

your way of thinking from the Hollywood way

53:54

to the Himalayan way. Take

53:57

that inner journey. of

54:00

a mindset shift. And

54:04

the third, I would

54:06

say, is to recognize

54:09

that spirituality

54:14

is something that's critical to bring into your lives

54:16

in any case. It

54:18

doesn't take you farther from

54:20

the world. It takes you

54:22

into the truth of the world. And

54:25

that spirituality and

54:27

success in entrepreneurship, success

54:29

in business, success

54:32

professionally can coexist.

54:36

Krishna was king of Dvaraka, a

54:38

city made of gold. Right?

54:42

There's nothing that says that gold

54:46

and God cannot coexist. I

54:48

love that. The

54:50

dilemma is when we start to think that God is

54:52

in the gold. So

54:59

should success come? Fantastic. Should

55:02

a claim come? Fantastic. But

55:05

don't think that all of what you

55:08

want in life is

55:10

going to come in your achievements and attainments

55:12

and success. Recognize

55:14

that the real success

55:19

is internal. And again, this is born out

55:21

by science. This is not just what

55:24

an orange robe clad monastic sitting

55:26

in the Himalayas is telling you. This

55:28

is what science is telling us these days.

55:31

What is real happiness anchored

55:34

in? What really brings happiness? Not

55:38

money, not external success, not

55:40

a claim, deep in

55:42

our connection. Living

55:45

a meaningful life, giving back, serving,

55:49

being connected to the

55:51

divine, to yourself, to others. So

55:57

remember. A

56:00

that you're not what you do, remember who you

56:03

are, but also remember what's

56:05

the purpose of your life? And

56:08

where is what you're looking for going to come from?

56:13

Is it only in the gold? Of course not. Krishna

56:16

was also there to them as house. But

56:19

it was just as blissful. Just

56:22

as blissful. It wasn't more blissful in Dvaraka because there

56:24

was gold. Sometimes

56:26

where God is, there's gold. Sometimes

56:28

where God is, there's leaves and

56:30

satch and mud and whatnot. But

56:34

as long as the divine is always

56:36

there, as long as that inner connection,

56:38

that spiritual connection is always there, success

56:42

will go up and down. Your

56:44

bank account will go up and down. But

56:47

then you won't go up and down with it. So

56:51

Sadhguruji, I was always curious when I used

56:53

to look at people

56:56

who are driven by

57:00

spreading the knowledge, by trying

57:02

to share as much as

57:05

they can to

57:07

video and more people. And

57:10

I always wonder, what

57:12

is it that really drives them? Is

57:14

there anything that they really want to

57:17

achieve or what is it that really

57:19

drives to consistently keep on doing the

57:21

same thing? Right? For instance, doing

57:24

the arthi every day, you know,

57:26

for years, you know,

57:28

or maybe doing the satsang every

57:31

day for years without saying

57:33

that it's boring or I've done enough and

57:35

so on and so forth. But still, you

57:37

know, you go. Great. Do

57:40

you eat every day? You

57:43

sleep every day? Would

57:46

you ever say, oh, hey, forget it, I'm done eating, that

57:48

is so boring, like I've done this every day. Forget

57:51

it enough. Go to our kadam. You're

57:55

going to keep eating because

57:58

it nourishes your body. Without

58:02

eating, you

58:04

feel unnourished.

58:09

Eventually, you'll start to get kind of

58:11

lightheaded. You won't be able to think

58:13

quite so well. You won't be really

58:16

grounded, anchored. You're health

58:18

will go. You

58:20

sleep. It

58:22

renourishes you. It recharges

58:24

you, quite literally. It

58:27

restores the body. Your

58:29

spiritual practices restore us. Now,

58:33

do enlightened

58:35

masters need to do

58:37

puja and meditation? No.

58:41

They're there. They

58:43

don't need to recharge. They're

58:46

the ones who charge us. But

58:48

for the rest of us, for

58:50

those of us who are on

58:53

the path, still

58:55

awakening, unfolding, and blossoming,

58:59

we need this constant

59:01

recharging, reenergizing

59:03

ourselves. Well, I

59:07

travel. I could be

59:09

out for a couple of months in a row, don't have

59:11

the chance to do the arati. By

59:14

God's grace, I've,

59:18

over all of these years,

59:20

developed an inner charge that's

59:23

strong enough, and it's

59:25

not like I find myself going

59:27

like this as the days go by that

59:29

I'm not doing arati. But

59:31

when I come back and I do it again, there

59:35

is a profound sense of,

59:39

oh, the soul just

59:41

soaks it up. In

59:45

the same way that you may have trained yourself

59:48

to be a very good faster, and

59:51

to be able to go for hours, if

59:53

not days, without eating. But

59:56

when you finally start to eat again, the

59:59

body definitely... has a sense of, thank

1:00:02

God. Many

1:00:06

of us, when we're students, learn

1:00:09

how to go for a really long time without

1:00:11

sleeping. Maybe some

1:00:13

chemical aids, maybe not, either way, but we

1:00:15

do manage in final exams and whatnot to

1:00:18

go a long time without sleeping. I

1:00:22

mean, it may be okay to run

1:00:24

on adrenaline or caffeine or whatever for a

1:00:26

while, but when we

1:00:28

finally do sleep, the

1:00:31

body and the brain go, ah. And

1:00:36

that's been my experience, is yes,

1:00:40

in the beginning, I never wanted

1:00:42

to miss one. In the beginning, it was like, oh God,

1:00:44

if I had to miss the arty. But

1:00:47

as the years have gone by, that

1:00:49

charge is there enough inside

1:00:51

that I

1:00:54

don't find myself plummeting

1:00:56

into spiritual despair. But

1:00:59

I do absolutely, when I come

1:01:02

back and experience it again, have

1:01:04

that sense of soul

1:01:07

spirit just going,

1:01:11

ah. So

1:01:15

we keep doing these things because they nourish us

1:01:17

and they nurture us and they recharge us the

1:01:20

same way that you keep eating and you

1:01:22

keep sleeping because it nourishes and nurtures and

1:01:24

recharges your physical

1:01:27

and your energetic body. Why do you

1:01:29

keep breathing? You

1:01:31

can breathe it long enough, aren't you bored? Beautiful.

1:01:36

Sadhguru, thank you

1:01:38

so much for everything that

1:01:40

you are doing and dedicating

1:01:42

your life in

1:01:44

making other

1:01:47

people experience the bliss that you

1:01:49

have experienced in your life and

1:01:52

also for pending your

1:01:54

journey in this book, Hollywood to

1:01:56

the Himalayas. I'll link

1:01:58

this up on the description of this video. the

1:02:00

podcast for the listeners

1:02:03

or the viewers to check this book out,

1:02:05

do definitely check this out. And I

1:02:08

can't recommend enough for

1:02:11

people to come to the ashram

1:02:13

once and experience this energy, you

1:02:16

know, experience this, you know,

1:02:18

divine energy that's

1:02:21

present here. And the

1:02:23

presence of you and Swamiji and

1:02:25

everybody here is just profound. Thank

1:02:30

you so much. Thank you so much. It's such a blessing

1:02:33

and honor to have this conversation with you here

1:02:35

today. I'm so happy that you came

1:02:37

and I hope that you keep coming. Absolutely.

1:02:41

Absolutely. Thank you.