0:00

The two weeks leading up to it was

0:02

just mentally exhausting

0:04

. There was so much . There's

0:07

so many times I could have done stuff . So

0:09

at that point I was like what's

0:11

wrong ? Why

0:14

am I so broken ? Why does this

0:16

always happen ? This can't be normal

0:19

for other people .

0:22

You know something isn't quite right , but

0:24

you just don't know what it is and you ask

0:26

yourself over and over , what's wrong with

0:28

me ? Now fast forward

0:30

to getting a diagnosis and guess what

0:32

? The questions still come . Does

0:35

this new diagnosis define me ? How

0:38

do I tell others ? How do I go

0:40

about my life ? Tim

0:42

here , and thank you for tuning into another

0:44

episode of the Invisible Condition podcast

0:47

, where we talk about advocacy and unusually

0:49

normal things the conditions , diseases

0:52

and illnesses we live with . We

0:54

will end the stigma of invisible conditions by empowering

0:56

voices , and today's voice is brought

0:58

to us by Martin . It

1:00

wasn't until he saw a social post from one

1:02

of his friends that he decided to step

1:04

out of fear , seek a diagnosis

1:07

and now tell his story with

1:09

the hope of breaking down stigmas . You

1:12

will learn the importance of embracing your story . Be

1:15

encouraged to share your story . Hear

1:17

how Martin gave his partner the wrong flight

1:19

details and how she flew to a completely

1:22

different city , to a completely different

1:24

airport , to meet him and

1:27

guess what ? He wasn't there . But

1:29

, most importantly , how his diagnosis

1:31

gave him the answers he needed . He

1:34

recognized the need for change in his life

1:36

and he sought and pushed for

1:38

answers . Have a listen , okay

1:42

, martin , you know we connected

1:44

a number of years ago of your

1:46

large community

1:49

caught my attention the People People Group . For

1:51

anyone who's listening is in the HR

1:53

space , you got to check out the People People Group . It

1:56

is massive , it's growing , it's active

1:58

. It is , I would say , probably

2:00

North America's largest

2:02

HR and People Ops

2:04

group on Slack and I

2:06

just I'm just so excited to have

2:08

you on the podcast . I hope I

2:10

did you justice with that intro , is that

2:12

okay ?

2:14

No , thank you so much , very kind

2:16

. I would love to take the

2:19

largest title

2:22

. There's

2:24

definitely a few larger ones out there . The

2:27

sneaky marketing thing

2:29

that I like to say is that we're the most

2:32

engaged , and I feel

2:34

confident and honest about

2:36

saying that when I look

2:39

at the community in comparison , so yeah , yeah

2:42

, and just to even compare that

2:44

with the community of those

2:46

who live with an invisible condition , because that's what

2:48

we're going to be talking about , just your journey

2:50

here in a sec .

2:52

There's more and more people , just even before we hit

2:54

record . There's so many people now

2:56

, at least on this podcast

2:59

, saying hey , it's time to share my story . I

3:01

want to share my story I haven't created

3:03

a community . I've thought about it . It's something

3:05

in the back of my mind . Today , we're

3:07

going to talk

3:09

about you . This is about

3:12

your journey living with an invisible condition . Finally

3:15

somebody wants to listen to me , we're here to

3:17

listen . I could probably

3:19

sit here for an hour just listen to myself talk at least

3:22

that's what my wife says but

3:24

I don't think I'd get too many downloads on that episode

3:26

. So why don't

3:28

you tell us a little bit about who

3:30

you are , briefly , about your

3:32

story , your diagnosis , what you live with ? I'm

3:35

just going to leave it for you for a couple minutes

3:37

.

3:37

Sure no thanks

3:40

for having me on and

3:42

suggesting

3:45

that I kind

3:47

of take that step . I'm

3:50

really grateful that you and I crossed paths

3:52

in the way that we did

3:54

and yeah

3:57

, I would say , maybe

3:59

before we met or just recently

4:01

I was in the midst of

4:04

like going through the diagnosis

4:06

process and what I have is

4:08

inattentive ADHD . And

4:12

I'm 38 years old and

4:15

I got diagnosed about two years ago

4:17

when I was 36 . And

4:22

that came out

4:24

of a

4:26

breaking

4:28

point for me , which was I've

4:31

got this project

4:33

do for work at my previous

4:35

employer . It was a

4:38

presentation and it

4:40

took like

4:42

every ounce of mental willpower

4:45

for me to do something that

4:47

probably takes people like 30 minutes tops

4:49

right , like really

4:51

talented people who

4:55

build slides and decks all

4:57

day long . And this is like a digital

5:00

asset , basically , of just

5:02

like I'm going to get my knowledge and put it on the

5:04

paper . And

5:06

it took like 15 and

5:09

I had two , three weeks to do it and

5:11

I left it to the last minute again

5:13

and it was like

5:15

two or three in the morning I was in front of my laptop

5:18

just like crawling to the finish

5:20

line of this deadline

5:22

, exhausted , because

5:25

I'm like a new dad

5:27

at this point I've got a little

5:29

one on the . You know

5:31

a baby is

5:33

coming and a two year

5:36

old at the time and

5:39

wildly supportive

5:41

, encouraging wife and I'm just like

5:43

trying to keep

5:46

my crying down at

5:49

two in the morning and from the laptop because I just

5:51

literally can't get this presentation out

5:53

of me . I don't know why . I've

5:55

been there so many times before and

5:58

there's this weird difference

6:02

of like on the flip side of that

6:04

. The next day when I have to do the presentation

6:06

, things go well and

6:09

you know the time and the

6:11

effort there , but the two

6:13

weeks leading up to it was just

6:15

mentally exhausting

6:17

. There was so much there's

6:20

so many times I could have done stuff . So

6:22

at that point I was like what's

6:24

wrong ? Why

6:27

am I so broken ? Why does this

6:29

always happen ? This can't be normal

6:32

for other people , and

6:34

started looking

6:38

into things that I had

6:40

kind of assumed

6:42

for a really long time and things

6:44

that had , I

6:49

don't know , necessarily worried me . But

6:51

it didn't feel right

6:54

to say that like oh , that's that's

6:56

me too right . Like because

6:59

the inattentive

7:02

piece of ADHD is that you

7:04

don't exhibit the like stereotypical

7:06

behaviors of like

7:08

he's really hyper and bounces off the walls

7:10

and it's just like really high emotions

7:13

all the time . If anything , I'm the opposite . I'm like completely

7:15

monotone poker faced all

7:17

the time and and

7:20

whatnot . So I didn't necessarily associate

7:23

myself with all of that and I guess the one

7:25

thing to kind of like tie this up in a bow

7:27

to a certain extent and let

7:30

you kind of jump in and double click where you'd

7:32

like . But the

7:34

reason I loved what you're doing

7:36

with this podcast was that

7:39

one of the things that gave

7:41

me the

7:44

strength and , I guess , the courage

7:46

to even end

7:48

and just like the knowledge of

7:51

what to do was a

7:54

friend of mine on on Facebook . His

7:56

name is bang and

7:58

he was posting about his journey of

8:00

taking medication for ADHD

8:03

and

8:05

he was being just wildly vulnerable

8:07

, just sharing out into the

8:09

Facebook void of like hey , I'm

8:12

afraid of taking this . I think my personality

8:14

is going to get muted . I think

8:16

you know the , the

8:19

bang , who I love and know

8:21

, and he was saying he was talking about himself

8:23

, is just going to kind of disappear

8:25

and I'm just going to turn into this drone

8:27

right , and that that was the scary part

8:29

for him and I shared that fear Like

8:31

there's a lot of the there's a lot of things

8:33

that I love about myself . And then there's a lot

8:35

of things that you

8:38

know bring a ton , of ton of challenge

8:40

into my life and I

8:42

just couldn't , couldn't

8:45

go on without

8:47

trying something different , I suppose . So

8:50

I'll kind of tie it off there and

8:52

you can double click wherever you like .

8:55

Well , I appreciate you sharing your

8:57

story . It does take a lot of vulnerability

8:59

and that is just a big theme

9:02

and a key theme that has

9:04

resonated with so many , where

9:06

people are listening

9:08

to the vulnerable stories and

9:10

are feeling a nudge inside of them

9:12

as well to say , hey , maybe it's time

9:14

to share my story , and we all have different

9:17

reasons to share and I'm

9:19

curious what ? I've

9:21

got a couple questions , but I'm curious why

9:24

? Now , what ? What makes you lean

9:26

into sharing your story and

9:28

not ? You know , you've

9:30

got your diagnosis , take your meds and continue on

9:32

with your day .

9:36

If , if , if bang didn't share

9:38

his story I don't know that I would have looked

9:41

into I

9:45

wouldn't call taking meds

9:47

a dance floor . But

9:50

if I hadn't

9:52

have seen that it

9:54

was a way of him sort of welcoming others

9:57

on to the dance floor , of just like , no

9:59

, it's okay to like go

10:02

here , it's okay to

10:05

feel afraid

10:08

. You're not the only one

10:10

who is afraid

10:12

going through this . And everything he was saying resonated

10:15

with me specifically and I

10:18

think oftentimes it's

10:20

like that's such a translatable

10:23

human emotion . Anything that you're afraid of

10:25

, you often think you're isolated

10:28

in it , and for

10:30

a lot of reasons . At

10:32

first it's true , but then you share

10:35

it and then you realize other people

10:37

are going through similar things and that's

10:39

really empowering , I think , and

10:41

I didn't want

10:43

to it feels

10:46

wronged and not pay it forward

10:48

so that if someone else sees this

10:50

and

10:53

they reach out or it gives them

10:55

like hey , you know what , I'm going to go check it out , like

10:57

that's all that I

11:00

think matters .

11:02

I had a previous guest talk about permission

11:04

and one of

11:06

the reasons why he shares his story is that

11:09

similar to what you're saying is that it

11:11

almost unlocks permission for people . Yeah

11:14

, we're diagnosed with something , we're

11:16

going through a health crisis and we're going

11:18

through something , and it feels

11:21

so lonely . Even when we're surrounded

11:23

by friends and family and a

11:25

partner and kids , it still feels so

11:27

lonely and throwing

11:30

it out there into , as you said , the void

11:32

of Facebook or void of social media

11:34

. Yeah , it's

11:36

the amount of support that just

11:39

comes in and the amount of questions

11:41

and people who care , complete strangers

11:43

. It's empowering

11:46

and

11:48

I mean , one of the purposes here , at a visible condition

11:51

, is to ignite social change , and it does

11:53

. It starts that , it catalyzes that

11:55

. But I just want to backtrack a little

11:57

bit . You're saying , hey

12:00

, you're working on this presentation , you've noticed a pattern

12:02

, you're down to the

12:05

wire getting it done . You've

12:07

noticed and you notice this pattern . I'm

12:10

curious , what

12:12

made you say

12:14

, okay , this

12:17

isn't right or

12:19

I feel that this could be done differently

12:21

? When have you , did you notice

12:23

that pattern previously in life or

12:25

throughout putting together presentations , and what

12:27

was the catalyst now ? Was

12:30

it that Facebook post , or was it , or did you have

12:32

? Had you seen it yet ?

12:37

Yeah , I would say I don't know . I

12:39

think I saw it

12:41

and it

12:44

was a seed that

12:46

needed watering and

12:50

I think that breaking point was the

12:52

sadly the water maybe the you

12:54

know the tears , kind of like , watered that

12:56

seed . But had I not seen that I

12:59

don't know that I would have connected his

13:02

experience and his fears to

13:04

and I just would have been

13:06

. I just would have

13:08

kept on going and

13:10

like suffering

13:13

mentally from like project to project

13:15

and it would have negatively impacted

13:17

my work . So the fear of like I've

13:20

got a family now , it's not just me

13:22

and my partner , it's me

13:24

, my partner and our daughters

13:26

and there's a lot more

13:28

on the line . So , even

13:30

though I was trying

13:32

harder than I'd ever tried in my

13:35

life before , it was just like running into a brick

13:37

wall mentally over and

13:39

over again , just like this can't . Something

13:41

has to change . I have to address this

13:43

thing that I used to address

13:46

in other unhealthy ways , mm

13:49

, hmm .

13:51

Yeah , it's those things that they

13:53

just don't go away , right , you try

13:55

different coping mechanisms , whatever worked

13:58

for you or you tried

14:00

that , you know , masked it , but

14:03

it's still there and yeah

14:07

, so you pursued that diagnosis

14:09

. When you received that diagnosis

14:12

, how did you feel ?

14:17

It was really I

14:20

don't . I won't . I don't want to say comforting , I

14:23

don't even want to say like a sense of relief

14:26

, because with that

14:28

relief , let's say there was immediately

14:31

. Now I have a stigma

14:33

. Sorry , I didn't ask if we could swear

14:35

, swear , but that's that's what went

14:38

through my mind . It was . It was like

14:40

it was like immediate relief

14:42

and then immediate . I

14:46

don't know what it was , but it it

14:49

wasn't just pure relief

14:51

, because now

14:53

I'm officially someone that

14:56

has ADHD and

14:58

what does this mean ? Does it define

15:01

me ? It

15:03

explains a lot . I have answers

15:05

for a lot . Is it going to be

15:07

my excuse now ? Is it the thing

15:09

that I tell other people

15:11

Overtly

15:14

? Are they going to judge me ? Do I tell

15:16

future employers about it ? It's

15:18

all those kind

15:21

of questions and concerns washed over

15:23

me in terms of . But it also

15:25

was like okay , now

15:28

I have a framework in which to

15:30

approach a

15:33

lot of the challenges in my life and

15:35

if I approach it from the framework of that

15:38

, maybe I'll have better , better

15:40

luck with some of the things that I'm trying to accomplish

15:43

.

15:45

I'm curious about some of the words that you use

15:47

. I'm just looking at my notes . Is this

15:50

an excuse ? And

15:53

I'm curious about that

15:56

emotion or that thought that had come

15:58

up . Yeah

16:01

, tell me a little bit more about that , if you can

16:03

.

16:07

So what was the answer to that one ? The

16:11

weird thing with ADHD

16:13

is that the

16:17

behaviors end

16:19

up looking a lot like laziness

16:23

or rudeness

16:26

, right . Like if

16:28

I'm in a conversation and my mind is

16:30

somewhere else , I might be nodding

16:33

and inattentive , literally

16:35

inattentive . There's inattentive and hyperactive

16:38

, right . So

16:41

like space cadet , or

16:44

just in my own mind , and you might

16:46

be telling me something and that thing might

16:48

be like okay , on Sunday you need to pick

16:50

up the girls at 4pm and

16:53

I wasn't there for that

16:55

conversation , right . And if

16:57

you think about how

17:00

often that happens whether

17:04

in a relationship , or you

17:06

have a relationship with your employer

17:08

or your boss or whatever it's

17:10

like if you're not present for critical information

17:13

, it's

17:15

not a good thing , right

17:18

. And

17:20

so the

17:22

word excuse came from , like , well , now I have

17:24

this excuse , now I have this reason , but

17:27

do I lean on it ? Can I lean on

17:29

it ? Is it something I even

17:31

want to lean on ? That's

17:34

kind of where that word came from for me .

17:37

Yeah , I can imagine your partner

17:40

if you did not

17:42

pick up the kids , or they're you know . I just have this image

17:44

of your daughter standing on the sidewalk just

17:46

looking both ways so where's dad ? And

17:49

using it as an excuse . I don't know

17:51

if that would fly , and

17:54

I can relate to that . Living with Crohn sometimes

17:56

I try to use that as

17:59

an excuse and as an out

18:01

, but my wife

18:03

holds me deeply accountable

18:05

too . It's

18:09

like no , you need to make sure

18:11

you're paying attention , make sure this

18:13

isn't just a reason to not

18:15

want to hang out with the kids or not

18:17

want to do something . It's like I don't want to go to that

18:19

party because I've got Crohn's , and sometimes

18:22

my wife's like well , you're

18:24

always going to have Crohn's , so maybe

18:26

it's time we go . And yeah

18:29

, I think it's straight

18:32

, it's what's the word I'm looking for . I don't want

18:34

to generalize it , at least for

18:36

me , and it sounds like potentially for you , it can

18:38

be an excuse , and I think it's . We

18:40

need to be aware of that .

18:43

Yeah , yeah , and

18:48

on the ADHD side it absolutely

18:51

can be . It's

18:53

easy to be , oh right

18:55

. Similarly , and

18:59

gratefully , my

19:01

wife has a ton of patience with

19:03

me and getting

19:06

diagnosed allowed me

19:08

and her to like have

19:11

a shared language

19:14

around what's going on

19:16

at times like hyperfixation , which

19:18

, like you'll go downstairs without announcing

19:20

it and you just won't come back upstairs

19:22

, even though you said you were going to , you

19:26

were going to go switch over the laundry

19:28

. I'm going to go switch over the laundry and on

19:30

the way there there's 15 things

19:32

that catch my attention and one

19:34

of those things could be something that I just hyperfix

19:37

it on and I end up

19:39

fixing some of the plumbing in

19:41

the bathroom because I noticed something was and

19:43

I just completely lose track of time

19:45

and if I don't like announce it

19:47

, there's sort of this like hey

19:50

, I was expecting

19:52

you to mind the kids with me for

19:54

a little bit so I could get something of my own

19:56

done . And

19:58

to her it might feel like I'm

20:01

disrespecting her time

20:03

or just

20:06

arbitrarily leaving her up there , and

20:08

that's never the intention , but that's what it feels like and that's

20:10

the reality of it , right , and

20:13

in those moments I could pass it off as

20:15

like well , you know I've

20:17

got this ADHD thing so you're just going to have

20:19

to deal with it . That's not the case . No , like

20:21

, I have to come up with different ways

20:24

. And like you

20:26

know the

20:28

amount of alarms on

20:30

my phone that co-off to

20:33

like remind me that it's like

20:35

three o'clock . So in 20 minutes you're

20:37

going to go need to pick up your

20:39

daughter from school . I've

20:41

got three or four . And

20:44

even though I have those three or four , sometimes

20:47

like I'm like I'm just going to just going to finish

20:49

this email or I'm just going to finish reading this thing

20:51

, and sometimes I'm running

20:53

from the house to go pick up my daughter and

20:55

thankfully I haven't been

20:58

crazy late or I've never

21:00

seen that like . But that there's

21:03

an extra level of accountability

21:06

that comes with , you

21:09

know a little one right , and that's

21:11

made . That

21:13

it's been . It's

21:16

been something that's really forced

21:18

me to kind of like address a lot

21:20

of the challenges because I couldn't

21:22

function in the way that I was previously . For

21:25

sure .

21:26

Yeah , yeah , I , I hear

21:28

you on that . You also

21:31

said something that has caught my

21:33

attention and I know others

21:35

have talked about it . Actually , others have said

21:37

I don't want to share my story because I'm

21:39

afraid of this , and

21:42

that is employers . Do I tell other

21:44

employers , well , we're out of podcast . Maybe

21:47

they'll listen to it on social media , on LinkedIn

21:49

, because I'm going to post it out because I'm

21:52

honored that you are sharing your story . I think there's so

21:54

much power in sharing your story , but there's

21:56

so much fear . I know there's , yeah

21:58

, there's shame and fear that that

22:01

often hold us back . So

22:03

what do you say to someone you know , let's

22:05

, let's . From the perspective of somebody who's you

22:08

know , do I tell a future employer and

22:10

then I want to switch the perspective of , hey , if you are a future

22:12

employer , because I want to hear your perspective on that . So

22:14

, yeah , I'm curious , do you tell

22:17

a future employer or somebody's

22:19

afraid to share their story ? Or to tell their

22:21

story ? What do you , what do you

22:23

say to that ?

22:25

Well , I want to address , like

22:28

my privilege in

22:31

that there's

22:34

a bunch , right , you

22:36

know my , my skin tone , my

22:38

gender that already

22:40

gives me a bunch of privilege

22:43

and you know , having a invisible

22:45

condition is

22:49

is a challenge , but

22:53

there's there's

22:55

a lot of things that have come easier

22:58

to me because of that and I can't necessarily

23:00

ignore it . So my

23:02

answer to this kind

23:05

of has to be seen with that lens , in

23:08

the sense that I'm

23:10

very lucky to have started

23:12

the community that I have , you know

23:15

, seven , seven years ago , and

23:17

so for

23:19

me to think

23:22

okay , if I'm open

23:24

and honest about this , what does that do

23:26

? Right

23:29

now I'm relying on myself to generate

23:31

income . I'm building a business and now

23:34

do I know where my next paycheck is going to come

23:36

from to a degree , but is it consistent

23:38

? No , I'm a consultant , so things kind

23:40

of work in in quarterly basis

23:42

. When I was employed , I

23:47

didn't . When

23:49

I got my diagnosis

23:52

, I told a few people on my

23:54

team , like people that were reporting

23:56

into me . Let them know that I

23:58

was like figuring it out . But

24:01

it wasn't . It

24:04

wasn't something I did lightly like , oh cool

24:06

, I'm just going to do this , Like it was pretty terrifying

24:08

, scary . But

24:10

I kind of thought back to . I don't

24:13

want to hide

24:15

this because

24:18

if I do

24:20

, it sort of feels disingenuous

24:22

, no-transcript

24:26

. On the flip side , not

24:29

everybody has built

24:31

a community that they can just

24:35

reach out to and say , hey , I

24:38

lost my job for whatever reason . I'm

24:41

looking for work and because

24:43

of the work that I've done in the community , it

24:49

would be easier for me to find

24:51

something than had I not built it

24:54

. That's a very unique circumstance

24:56

, I think , and

24:59

so the question

25:01

of should you be

25:05

transparent with an employer . I

25:11

struggle with that because I

25:13

think there's a time and a

25:15

place where you will feel comfortable enough

25:17

to do so and you will

25:19

know those moments and

25:22

in some of those moments you

25:24

might find out the hard way that

25:27

that wasn't

25:29

. You shouldn't have trusted

25:31

that individual with that information

25:34

because they didn't actually realize

25:36

it . And I think I

25:38

don't think the

25:41

way the relationship

25:43

between an employer and employee

25:46

is built in

25:49

a way that truly supports people

25:52

with , like

25:54

, there's a certain sense of normal that

25:57

companies want , and

26:00

it is inconvenient to

26:02

an organization for

26:05

an individual to

26:07

just not be performing

26:09

at 100% all the time , or

26:12

inconvenient . And

26:14

I haven't

26:16

seen I've

26:18

seen a lot of hope from , like , a modern

26:21

HR practice perspective where a

26:23

lot of people in HR are

26:25

really advocating for people when they

26:27

come to them and say , hey , listen , I've got this thing

26:29

and I need support from my employer

26:32

. But then you look

26:34

on the other side of things

26:36

and you see people posting online

26:38

and they might not even have an invisible

26:41

condition , they might not even have a visit

26:43

, they might not be , and

26:46

the

26:49

employer-employee

26:51

relationship still hasn't

26:53

gotten to this place of like . Yeah

26:55

, we figured this out and most companies do it

26:57

pretty well . Unfortunately

26:59

, it's not the

27:02

case . The great places

27:04

to work are

27:08

few and far between , I

27:10

think , in terms of like really being

27:13

welcoming to that

27:15

sort of thing , and that's

27:17

a little bit of a pessimistic view

27:20

. But I think , unless

27:23

you are especially in like the market

27:26

today in terms of like , I'm

27:28

looking at this from the lens

27:30

of like the startup and

27:33

tech community . But if

27:35

, unless you're super confident

27:37

that you can just find

27:39

another opportunity at a moment's

27:41

notice or

27:45

you have something to lean on like

27:47

, I would only really

27:50

share it if you

27:52

are in a place where you can

27:54

afford to , because I

27:56

haven't seen

27:58

a ton of acceptance and

28:00

maybe you have someone individually

28:02

at the organizations . Who's understanding

28:05

, but companies are

28:07

large and complex and your manager

28:09

might change and someone might share the information

28:11

if you become more open about it . I was

28:14

open about it with my team . I

28:16

don't know if that was the cause

28:18

of like . I don't know if that played a part

28:20

in me getting laid off I

28:22

don't think it was but I'm

28:24

sure somewhere in the back of someone's

28:26

mind they could have looked

28:28

back on some of the things

28:33

that I'd maybe didn't get done

28:35

quick enough or didn't turn around quick

28:37

enough and said , okay

28:40

, well , maybe we don't

28:42

need to . So that's a long answer and

28:44

it's a tricky one

28:46

. I think the

28:49

short version is

28:51

you'll know

28:53

when it's right for yourself , I think .

28:58

Yeah , I appreciate you call a pessimistic

29:00

view , I call it a realistic view . It's

29:02

a realist view where

29:04

you know it's a pretty general

29:07

question . I realized saying asking

29:09

hey , you know , should you share ? It depends

29:11

on the circumstance , it depends on

29:14

your organization . There's so many

29:16

factors that go into

29:18

it . Some have the opportunity

29:21

to have time on

29:23

their side to share when they're

29:25

comfortable . Some don't . I

29:28

had to share with an organization because I was in

29:30

the hospital and I was like phone

29:32

up my boss , I was like , hey , I'm not going

29:34

to be in because you know my

29:37

bowels exploded and I'm going to be in

29:39

the hospital for a little bit . You

29:41

know they reacted very positively

29:44

, but I've also heard many stories of companies

29:46

and organizations not reacting positively

29:48

and it's

29:50

scary . There's also , you

29:53

know it's so . It's an individual's choice

29:55

and I would say , if it is affecting

29:58

your performance , if it's affecting your

30:00

ability to do the job , maybe

30:02

there's , maybe it's time to say have a

30:04

conversation with someone , whether it's

30:06

HR , whether it's your leader , and just be

30:09

open and honest about it , about

30:11

what's going on , because the

30:13

last thing we want is for someone to

30:15

not step

30:17

in and to that vulnerability and end

30:19

up losing a job . And so

30:21

, you know , there's power in that

30:23

voice and it's kind of leads to the next question

30:26

, which is something that's been on my mind for

30:28

for about a month now , is

30:30

this term self-advocacy . Because

30:33

you know , you're a father

30:35

, I'm a father . I think of a world

30:37

where , you know , my kids are my

30:40

kids are a little bit older than yours but a

30:43

world where , if they live with something that's invisible

30:45

, how , how do

30:47

we want to encourage them to advocate for themselves

30:50

and step into , let's say , that they're

30:52

diagnosed with something ? And

30:54

you know , I'm curious when

30:57

, when you hear that , especially

30:59

, you know , when I talk about my kids in that way

31:01

, I just , you know , makes lots of emotions

31:03

come up , and there's

31:06

what's coming up for you in that world

31:09

of self-advocacy and thinking of the future .

31:15

My daughter this morning asked

31:18

me like Daddy , why are we always like

31:20

rushing to school ? And

31:24

like part of it is just

31:27

, you know , she doesn't

31:29

put her jacket on and she

31:31

wants to do a million other things before we leave

31:33

the house for school and what

31:36

not . Another part of it is like I probably

31:38

could have managed my time a little better . Maybe

31:40

I didn't , maybe I shouldn't have made my coffee

31:42

, maybe I should have just like been more

31:45

of a more

31:48

forceful and like okay , cool , let's get your jacket

31:50

on and your boots on and let's go kind of thing right

31:52

and

31:55

on the way I was . You

31:59

know there's no , there's probably there

32:01

are books , for sure . There's books on

32:03

how to be a parent . I haven't

32:06

read any of them , partially

32:08

because you know my attention span for

32:10

that stuff isn't that great

32:12

. But

32:15

the other , like , I learned best through

32:17

experience and

32:20

discussion , which is why

32:22

I enjoy these conversations and

32:24

talking about it with other people . But

32:29

the

32:32

self-advocacy piece

32:34

and the thing I thought in that

32:36

moment , you know , when she asked me that question , I'm

32:38

like , well , daddy's brain

32:41

works a little bit differently sometimes , and

32:43

it's like I also told her . I'm like

32:45

, do you also just need to like

32:47

put your jacket on a little bit quicker and faster

32:49

sometimes and like part of that's me and part

32:51

of that's you and as a two-way straight and we're a team

32:53

. But

32:56

I kind

32:58

of gave her a sneak preview into the

33:00

fact that , like , yeah

33:03

, I've , you

33:05

know , my brain works a little bit differently . Sometimes

33:07

people remember everything and sometimes daddy

33:10

doesn't , and sometimes daddy

33:13

doesn't remember important

33:15

things and

33:17

that's hard and I think

33:19

it was more of like a foreshadowing

33:22

to her that like , hey

33:25

, this is a thing there's

33:29

. There's a lot of guilt and shame

33:31

that comes with ADHD , because the

33:33

end result is disappointing

33:37

to others when things go poorly and

33:40

so that , having happened so many

33:42

times , you just build it up over time and

33:44

it always comes back to to

33:46

yourself . So the self-advocacy

33:48

piece , I think

33:50

for For

33:54

me and if I'm going off track here

33:56

, feel free to nudge me in the right direction

33:58

but it

34:00

kind of goes back to wanting to

34:02

pay it forward Always

34:06

goes back to that . Had

34:08

Bang not shared his

34:10

experiences on Facebook , I

34:13

don't feel like I would have dove

34:16

in and researched and felt comfortable

34:18

because he was sharing sort of like

34:20

a video blog and he was saying like , hey

34:22

, I didn't lose that part

34:24

of me that I felt really attached

34:29

to like the fun and personable

34:31

and kooky crazy side he didn't

34:33

turn into like the mindless

34:37

drone that he was worried about in terms

34:39

of like taking the medication and being like

34:41

muted from a personality perspective

34:43

, and that was really that gave

34:45

me permission to

34:48

sort of explore further , gave me reduced

34:51

some of the fear in it . So

34:56

if it feels disrespectful to

34:58

not self

35:01

maybe I'm misunderstanding

35:03

here , now I'm realizing it . I've probably gone

35:05

on a little bit of a tangent , but yeah

35:09

, that's where my mind went when

35:11

you asked that .

35:13

Yeah , no , I don't think it's

35:15

too far off . On a tangent , I think I

35:18

could just picture your daughter asking

35:20

why are we always rushing ? And part

35:24

of self advocacy to me is being

35:27

open and honest , even with the littles

35:30

in our lives , in our family .

35:32

The littles yeah .

35:34

With my kids . My daughter is six

35:36

and she's

35:38

asked me why are

35:41

you always running to the washroom before we leave the

35:43

house ? And I need to

35:45

explain to her that if I

35:47

don't , we

35:49

will likely need to stop somewhere along the

35:51

way , whether we're going for a walk or a drive . For me

35:53

to rush into a washroom because my

35:55

bowels work differently and

35:58

you know she's then will crack a few jokes

36:00

If you ever meet my daughter . She's very

36:03

sarcastic at six and likes to

36:05

joke around , and so we have some fun with that

36:07

. But it's being open and honest

36:09

, and then

36:12

it's also telling people what

36:14

we need . So , like with

36:16

your daughter , it's hey , we're working as a team

36:18

, this is

36:21

what we need , and I tell people

36:23

like , hey , if you're going to advocate for yourself at the doctors

36:25

, you got to be crystal clear on what's

36:27

happening and crystal clear what you need . And same with

36:29

our kids , same with the little people in

36:31

our lives , the friends , the family because

36:34

they can't read our minds . Nobody can read our minds . Somebody

36:37

says , hey , I can read your mind . They're wrong . I

36:40

think I have a fun conversation , but

36:44

I think it's a large part of it

36:46

, especially with our kids . It's

36:51

not shying away from what's

36:54

going on . And it makes

36:56

us our quote unquote normal . Because

36:59

, yeah , your brain works differently than your daughters

37:01

, works differently than your partners , works differently

37:03

than mine , and

37:07

owning that , stepping into it , I think there's power

37:09

in that .

37:11

Yeah , I

37:13

understand the question a bit better now

37:15

and

37:18

I would say , to add to what my

37:20

answer was on

37:24

the advocacy piece , I'll give an example

37:26

. That's a funny story now . So

37:30

I was invited to speak

37:32

at a HR tech

37:35

conference in San Francisco . Oh

37:39

, I just made the mistake again . No

37:42

, san Jose , and

37:47

I

37:49

was going to buy tickets . And my wife's

37:51

like , oh , it would be fun . And this was before

37:53

kids . So he's like , oh , it'd be fun

37:55

if , like , we , like I , flew down at the same

37:57

time and you know , I go

37:59

do my thing , and then we can meet up after your

38:02

speaking and engagement and make

38:05

like a weekend trip

38:07

out of it . I was like , okay , yeah , that's cool . She's like cool

38:09

, cool , I'm going to buy tickets . I'm going to buy tickets . I'm

38:11

hey , I'm buying tickets . It's

38:14

coming up in a month . Now I'd like

38:16

to buy some airline tickets . And for

38:18

me , I'm like even there's just a concept

38:20

of , like the time window . I'm like , oh , it

38:22

should be cheaper . It should

38:24

be cheaper when

38:27

you know , because it's and

38:29

that's not how flight tickets work . But

38:32

she's like I'm buying a ticket and

38:38

so you buy your own ticket and

38:41

you know if we're on the same flight , great

38:43

and that was like a little bit of a sticking

38:46

point . So

38:48

came like a week before , like

38:51

a few days before , and I'm buying my tickets

38:53

to go there . I'm like double

38:55

the price , which is already like

38:57

a stupid thing in the first

38:59

place . And

39:02

turns

39:05

out she

39:07

was like oh , you know when are you flying

39:10

into ? And I'm like , oh , I fly into

39:12

this airport , you know , at this time

39:14

she's like what did you say ? I'm like , yeah

39:16

, like she's like that's

39:18

, that's San Diego . I

39:21

got tickets to San Jose . Oh

39:25

, mixed up the sands

39:27

. San Francisco , san Diego

39:29

, san Jose , mixed them up . Mixed them up . Didn't

39:31

give you the right information . You're

39:33

flying to a city on the same day that

39:35

I am , but it's just four

39:38

hours away from the city that I'm going to . Wonderful

39:40

, the fact that I'm still married

39:42

out of that mistake is

39:46

a testament to how awesome and

39:48

patient and kind my

39:50

partner is . After

39:55

that experience , once

39:57

we got through some of the more challenging

39:59

aspects of , like you

40:02

know , making a mistake like that , you

40:04

know , you know you're going to be like oh , I

40:07

started to dig in a little bit more . I'm like

40:09

well , you do everything

40:11

analog right , her diary

40:13

is either in her head , her calendar

40:15

, you know her appointments and who

40:17

we're seeing next weekend is in her head and everything

40:20

for me is digital and if it's not

40:22

in the calendar it doesn't actually

40:24

exist . For me , it's not real , essentially

40:26

. And so the

40:29

biggest fix to

40:32

our relationship and some of our biggest

40:34

challenges and fights

40:36

and arguments was us

40:38

sitting down and saying , okay , so this

40:42

part of me doesn't work in the same

40:44

way . And

40:49

so my ask of you is that

40:51

, like , you start using the digital calendar

40:53

, and where I

40:55

will meet you in the middle to a certain extent

40:57

is , I'll try to keep

41:00

the whiteboard calendar that you use

41:02

more up to date . And that was a

41:04

good moment

41:07

for us to realize , like , okay , we need

41:09

to work together more on some of

41:12

these operational logistic things as

41:14

a couple . You throw kids into

41:16

that and all the appointments

41:18

and dates and times and , like you

41:21

, can you know there's

41:23

a level of like . Every once

41:26

in a while now I get to say like

41:28

, okay , sorry , I

41:30

didn't hear anything you just said not

41:32

intentional . And she , like

41:35

, can you say that again ? And I'm gonna put this

41:37

into my phone now and if she sees me doing

41:39

that , she knows that like the

41:42

chances of me doing the right thing

41:44

at the right time , just exponentially

41:46

increase .

41:49

Okay , a couple of things are coming up is okay

41:52

, I like applaud your partner for

41:55

sticking with you . It's like I've just applied to a completely

41:58

different city . Sorry about that

42:00

, oops , my mistake . And

42:02

but then being able to reconcile

42:04

that and sitting down and saying , okay

42:06

, even self-advocacy

42:09

doesn't have to be necessarily

42:11

outside of our

42:13

homes , with doctors and workplaces

42:15

and things like that , it's also with the people that are close

42:17

to us , is , hey , this is

42:20

what I need . And hearing the

42:22

reciprocating , this is what I need from our

42:24

partners , from our friends , and meeting

42:26

in the middle , like having that open dialogue

42:28

, is so , so key to

42:30

relationship and it unlocks

42:32

at just a deeper level of

42:35

friendship and with

42:37

our friends , with our partners , with our family . Would you agree

42:39

?

42:42

Yeah , now me and Karina end up going

42:44

to the same place most of the time .

42:47

Most of the time . I'm

42:49

so curious to hear her perspective of the story

42:51

. Maybe I'll have to ask her or get her

42:53

contacted .

42:54

She tells it regularly . She

42:56

actually tells it regularly , yeah .

42:59

Yeah , which is that over going to ? Yeah , san Jose

43:01

, san Francisco , san Diego , yeah

43:04

.

43:04

I blame California . Really , this isn't

43:06

a me problem , it's a California problem

43:08

, like who does that honestly ?

43:10

It is , you know , the

43:12

best of us like , yeah , I

43:15

could imagine if I was to go book

43:17

tickets I'd probably mess that up too . And it

43:20

is a California . We're gonna write a letter . I'll write a letter

43:23

after this and I'll put it into chat GPT

43:25

and see what comes out so

43:27

we can start a petition and change

43:30

California .

43:31

You've got your first signer here .

43:33

Yeah , I love it . Well , Bart , you

43:35

know I really appreciate you . I appreciate

43:38

your openness , your vulnerability . Your

43:41

demeanor in

43:43

how you tell your story is

43:45

something that is honestly . It's inspiring

43:48

to me and for

43:51

those who are listening , who

43:53

are thinking , and

43:55

maybe it's time to tell my story . How

43:59

would you encourage someone to even start ?

44:04

Start telling their own story . Well

44:11

, my initial thought was like only do

44:13

what's comfortable . And

44:16

then immediately my

44:18

mind's like growth doesn't

44:21

really come through comfort . So

44:26

does

44:29

it mean like jumping onto a podcast

44:31

right

44:33

off the bat ? Like it really depends

44:35

on wearing into classic HR

44:38

answer . Right , it depends , but

44:43

I would say it depends

44:45

on where you're at . I

44:47

think I'm

44:50

really grateful that I've gotten

44:52

to a place where I do feel comfortable . This

44:54

is like I'm not like , oh , this is great . Like

44:56

there's a sense of nervousness . There's

44:59

a sense of like oh , did

45:01

I do the right thing ? Am I doing like I'm starting a

45:03

business ? Maybe I shouldn't put this out

45:05

there so openly . And

45:08

then there's another part of me that says

45:10

I

45:12

have gotten so far

45:14

already and

45:18

I've been pretty transparent . If

45:21

I can keep making

45:23

it okay for

45:26

others to

45:28

share , or

45:30

muster up some courage to maybe just tell

45:33

a friend or a family member

45:35

or a boss or like

45:37

. It's not going to be easy

45:40

, but I think if you

45:42

start trying in small ways and

45:45

you do it consistently , one

45:49

day you'll end up looking back

45:51

and sort of laughing

45:54

at yourself that you thought

45:57

it was so scary at the time . And that's

45:59

kind of what happens with everything

46:01

. I think so .

46:04

Yeah , there's discomfort in

46:07

stepping out , and I love what you said

46:09

. Growth doesn't come through comfort

46:11

and so if you're listening to this

46:13

, maybe it's opportunity to get

46:15

uncomfortable , and

46:17

it might be for selfish

46:20

reasons , and I applaud you for that

46:22

. It might be for reasons where out

46:24

of necessity , and I applaud you for that . So

46:27

lots of good insight in that

46:29

, martin . So , as we wrap up

46:31

, I'm curious if somebody wants to know more , wants

46:33

to connect with you , wants to hear

46:36

more about your journey and maybe

46:38

dig into some of the insights you shared , where can people

46:40

reach you ?

46:42

Yeah , find me at LinkedIn

46:46

probably the best , easiest way as

46:48

a recruiter by trade . That's

46:53

Martin Hauke , h-a-u-c-k

46:56

. And

46:59

find

47:01

me on LinkedIn yeah , that's the easiest way

47:04

, martin H-A-U-C-Kca

47:07

as well . Kind of shows you all the

47:09

things . I just recently got

47:12

rid of Instagram for obvious

47:14

reasons , spending

47:17

way too much time there just going down like those

47:19

stories and the algorithms are just getting

47:22

bananas for attention spans

47:24

, adhd or not . It's

47:26

just concerning

47:28

. So I'm no longer on

47:30

the Insta and

47:35

you can find me on LinkedIn .

47:38

Sounds good . Well , I'll put your links

47:40

in the show notes as well . And again

47:43

, thank you for opening up , honestly

47:45

and vulnerably , your journey of

47:48

diagnosis with

47:50

Intentive ADHD

47:52

and your journey

47:55

as a father and sharing

47:57

with your kids and as well as

47:59

, I hope , your next trip with your rising

48:01

partner , you get up at the same place

48:04

and if not , I hope you have two separate trips . Yeah

48:06

, fingers crossed .

48:09

There's the bright side to it , right . Oh , how was your vacation

48:12

? Yeah , it was great . That was good . You

48:14

could divide in concrete .

48:15

You could see a lot of the world , right , If you just

48:18

keep it's not gonna work that way .

48:19

It takes to the wrong place no , don't think so Not gonna

48:21

work that way .

48:21

No , Well , again , thanks for coming

48:24

on and for those who are listening . I

48:26

love it when you shoot

48:28

me an email , shoot me a message , whether

48:31

it's through the website or social , and

48:33

just tell me what you thought about this week's

48:35

episode . Also , what really

48:37

helps the podcast get noticed is if

48:40

you take a moment and just give us

48:42

a rating and write a review , and

48:44

if it's a terrible review , if you're not enjoying

48:46

it , just shoot me a message . I would appreciate

48:48

that instead of posting it publicly . But

48:50

hey , if you wanna do that too , don't hold

48:53

back . And

48:55

with that , I just hope everyone has an amazing

48:57

day . And again , thanks , martin , for coming on .

49:00

Thank you Tim .