0:01

Hello and welcome back to the Marketing LawCast

0:03

. I'm your host , jennifer Goddard , and

0:05

I'm here today with my guest

0:08

, kevin

0:11

Horner , with the Galligan Law Firm . Galligan

0:14

Law Firm and the previous iteration

0:17

, which was Galligan Manning , have

0:19

been clients of ours for years and

0:21

years and years . It's

0:23

always a pleasure to visit with

0:25

Kevin and with

0:27

the folks there at the law firm . I've

0:30

asked Kevin to come on the

0:32

podcast today to

0:34

talk a little bit about what it's like

0:36

to have this very successful law

0:39

firm . They're located near

0:41

Houston , texas . Where exactly

0:43

are you , kevin ?

0:45

Very in Houston . We're in the Galleria

0:47

area for those who are more local . There's

0:50

an inner-side loop and we're inside that

0:52

loop .

0:53

Great . They're in Houston

0:55

, basically in the Galleria area . Their

0:58

practice focuses on

1:01

estate planning , algebra , probate

1:04

to the state administration . They've

1:07

been at this , like Mary

1:09

Galligan and Tammy Manning started

1:11

this in 1997 . This

1:14

is a long-term firm . It has

1:16

a terrific reputation in

1:18

the area . I'm

1:21

going to turn it over to you , kevin

1:23

, to tell me a little bit about the firm and

1:25

then a little bit about how you ended up

1:27

in Houston , texas .

1:31

It was an excellent introduction , by the way

1:33

. Yes , we are the Galligan Law Firm . We have

1:36

been around since exactly 1997 . We're

1:40

one of those firms that has been always

1:42

specialists in estate planning

1:44

and estate administration and then I brought in an elder

1:47

law component . We've been

1:49

focused as a boutique firm in this area for

1:51

the whole 25 years or so . I

1:54

specifically joined the firm Just

1:57

shy now I think about five years ago when I

1:59

moved down to Houston

2:02

, Texas . You can probably

2:04

hear from my accent , I am not from Texas

2:06

, I came from up north . I'm

2:08

from Pennsylvania originally , where I had my own firm

2:10

. Then . What happened is

2:12

as many people moved to

2:15

Houston for this reason . It was good work

2:17

opportunities . My wife is

2:19

a bioethicist and she works

2:21

in a hospital setting in the Baylor College of Medicine

2:23

. Here in Houston was one of the best places , at

2:26

least in the country , if not the world , to do what she did

2:28

. Someone there was an opportunity seemed

2:30

too good to pass up . Then

2:32

for me , of course , everyone

2:34

needs lawyers everywhere . I

2:37

could be fairly transportable at that point

2:40

and I already had been working at that point for

2:42

five or 10 years , I guess it

2:44

was . It

2:46

was a fairly easy transition to come down to

2:48

a place like this and eventually wave

2:51

in and start working here .

2:53

You've been there about five years . You haven't picked

2:55

up a Texas drawl yet . Probably

2:58

won't .

2:59

It's actually very selective . It

3:01

depends on who I'm with

3:03

and what I'm saying . But every

3:06

now and again , depending

3:08

on the subject matter , I either slide back

3:10

into my hard Yankee accent , my

3:12

Pennsylvania drawl , or I will occasionally

3:14

hit a little bit of text . I'm not going to do it upon requested

3:17

demand , just kind of flowed out naturally . But

3:19

every now and again , yes , it does come out . I'm

3:23

picking it up a little bit .

3:25

So tell me a little bit , Kevin , about

3:27

your particular practice area and

3:29

what makes it a little bit unique .

3:32

Sure . So the nice thing

3:34

about what we do with estate planning and estate

3:36

administration and then I do elder law

3:38

as well and then we do some things that are ancillary

3:41

to that like I do a little bit of real estate and some

3:43

business law too , but for the most part those areas

3:45

it's kind of unique for

3:47

us in the sense of we're

3:50

a firm that's focused on that and

3:52

we try to move beyond just doing

3:54

what people typically think of , like

3:56

when people want to do an estate plan , what they're really thinking

3:58

of is they need a will , they need to

4:00

plan to die because of course , we all do someday

4:03

and it is that . But one of the

4:05

nice things that we have

4:07

are unique things about a firm that focuses on

4:09

this , for so much is that we can do

4:11

more holistic planning than that . We

4:14

can do things that people

4:16

need as they age . We can

4:18

do incapacity planning . We can , of course , do

4:20

wills and plan for when people pass away . But

4:23

we like to talk about in our firm is legacy

4:25

planning . It's taking everything

4:27

that you want to pass on to the next generation

4:29

, whatever that means for you or your next loved

4:31

ones or whomever you want to leave things to and

4:34

help you leave that legacy to

4:36

those next people . And

4:39

so for some people , what that means is tax

4:42

planning . It's being really efficient in

4:44

how we do it . For some people it's with as

4:46

little fighting as possible . For

4:48

some families , that is the focal point

4:50

. And so we do estate plans that

4:52

help lead to the next set

4:55

of beneficiaries while avoiding conflicts

4:57

or maybe I shouldn't say avoiding , that's not really true

4:59

. We plan for family conflicts

5:01

and help us get through them . Or we do

5:03

things for options like elder

5:05

law , which a lot of times is long term

5:08

care planning . It's investigating

5:10

options of staying and living

5:12

and retiring and aging in

5:14

place , or maybe it's looking for a

5:16

suitable facility to live in , or

5:19

maybe it's paying for that suitable facility

5:21

to live in , be it through private pay

5:23

or insurance or Medicaid planning . And

5:26

so what I think maybe makes us unique

5:28

is we really can do all

5:31

of the legacy planning . Whatever those

5:33

issues is really the key one for that particular

5:35

client . We can do it and deal with a

5:38

tailored solution to whatever

5:40

that person's situation happens to be

5:42

. So that's probably really what makes us

5:44

unique and maybe what makes us special , if I may say

5:46

so , in terms of how we can help

5:48

clients in all of those different areas .

5:50

Sure , you know that's having

5:52

that perspective is so important

5:55

and you have a little bit of a twist

5:57

. Coming from the Northeast and

6:00

now practicing in Houston

6:02

, you bring sort of

6:04

a wider spectrum that

6:06

sometimes is very valuable to

6:08

some of your clients . You want to tell me a little bit about that ?

6:11

Sure . So , as I said , I had my own firm when

6:13

I was in Pennsylvania , so

6:15

I'm still admitted in Pennsylvania , I still have to

6:17

work on Pennsylvania issues , and we lived

6:19

in New York for a while where I practiced

6:21

a very good , sophisticated firm there

6:24

that deals very much in these particular

6:26

kind of issues . So we dealt with everything from really

6:28

high end tax planning to a lot of

6:30

Medicaid planning and , of course , all the planning

6:32

in between those things , and

6:34

so of course now I'm down here in Texas and I'm

6:36

comfortable thinking for that matter , I'm also admitted in West

6:38

Virginia , which I'm good to use

6:40

too much anymore , but I am

6:42

, and so the thing that's kind

6:44

of made that helpful from my

6:46

perspective as a planner is I've

6:49

seen a lot of different ways of handling a problem

6:51

. There's absolutely a philosophy , not

6:53

just different laws , but there's different philosophies

6:55

on how to handle problems , and

6:58

sometimes it's helpful to be able to troubleshoot

7:00

problems from a variety of perspectives

7:02

, including ones that you may have gained in certain

7:05

other areas , and

7:07

then basically be able to help clients because

7:09

you can see it from a variety of different perspectives

7:12

. It's interesting too that you would think , being in

7:14

Texas , that I would

7:17

maybe only be doing Texas planning and those

7:19

other states laws or those states

7:21

wouldn't really come in and touch this . But that

7:23

really isn't true . I mean , I was working

7:25

on a New York matter earlier

7:28

today and we still have the

7:31

occasional client who comes from one of those places

7:33

and so we have direct relationships or

7:35

direct need to do those kinds of

7:37

areas of law . So , in

7:39

short , it helps us do things

7:41

like plan for what it's going to be like when

7:44

a person is elsewhere . Actually , I'm

7:46

probably a really good example of this right . We

7:48

live in a very mobile society and

7:50

so we don't just have Texans

7:53

who have to plan for living in Texas

7:55

. We have people who are married

7:57

or maybe say older . They're

7:59

doing planning for their adult children , but the adult children

8:01

are all alone in Texas . They could be in New

8:03

York because of a job or

8:05

school or whatever . They could be in a Pennsylvania , they could

8:08

be a wherever , and so having

8:10

the perspective that I've had of having to figure

8:12

out planning in different places from different perspectives

8:15

, and having the portability , the ability

8:17

to kind of move and take these things

8:19

to new places , has been helpful . Planning

8:21

here because you're planning for people who

8:24

are not to stay in Texas or their beneficiaries

8:26

won't just be in Texas , and so to have

8:28

a broader perspective and maybe

8:30

more tools in the toolbox has

8:33

been really helpful in solving problems

8:35

for clients , even here .

8:37

Well , you know that's so important to realize

8:39

that even if the parents

8:41

or the people who are doing the planning live in Texas

8:44

, their heirs

8:46

, their children , certainly you

8:48

know further on down the line probably

8:50

don't you know Because we

8:52

are so mobile . I know like in

8:54

my situation , between my husband and

8:56

I we have five children and

8:59

they are in Connecticut , florida

9:01

, washington you know they're all over the

9:03

country . So , having that

9:05

perspective that you

9:08

know it needs to be something that can

9:10

be acceptable and work

9:12

across the board

9:14

.

9:15

I've had this situation where so coming

9:17

I'll give you a really , really quick version , because

9:19

this is a much longer conversation Tax

9:23

planning . So a lot of people are

9:25

at least considering tax planning . Not

9:27

everyone is blessed to have that as a serious problem

9:29

, but most clients are aware of they'd

9:32

rather maximize what they leave to their loved

9:34

ones compared to pay it to the state or

9:36

to the federal government , depending on the case . So

9:39

one thing that I found interesting is where I practice in

9:41

Pennsylvania , we had an inheritance tax , so

9:43

every estate was taxed , not a huge

9:46

amount necessarily , but it made taxes

9:48

relevant in all estates , not

9:50

just ones that were super wealthy . In

9:52

New York there was a state estate

9:54

tax and so we had to do planning

9:56

that was maybe more estate tax focused

9:59

than we do in a place like Texas , where there

10:01

isn't an estate tax , but

10:03

where it even still comes up to us today is

10:05

we have the situation now where , like you

10:07

, could be a taxing and not really have to worry about

10:09

serious tax problems for the most

10:12

part , at least , nothing that was Texas

10:14

based . But you have a child

10:16

who lives in New York because they moved

10:18

to New York for a business Opportunity there in New York

10:20

City , where the cost of living is really high and

10:23

the state has a state state tax

10:25

. Sometimes the

10:27

way that can inform our planning is that

10:29

might impact how you leave

10:32

your your assets to your

10:34

loved one you know , there are different . There

10:36

are different options . You might just leave it outright so

10:38

that it's in their pockets when they die , but

10:40

if that's true , then what you left them becomes

10:43

taxed in their estates . Sometimes you can

10:45

pre plan for that in your

10:47

own estate plan on how you leave it . So

10:49

those kinds of Awarenesses

10:51

help impact the way we can do

10:53

a state plan here .

10:55

Being located in Houston

10:57

, in you know , in Texas , houston's

11:01

a pretty major metropolitan area

11:03

. What are some of the unique aspects

11:05

of the clients that you deal with

11:07

? Some of their complex issues , or , you know

11:09

, tell me a little bit about your clientele , so

11:12

I think quite a few do

11:15

have what I was already kind of saying .

11:17

And there's the issue of mobility , because

11:19

there are very few it feels like we have

11:21

very few Houstonians . I

11:24

mean people who live here , obviously , but not like born

11:26

and raised . That just doesn't happen because

11:28

so many people who've moved here because

11:30

it's been a city that's done financially pretty

11:32

well in recent years , so a lot of people have moved

11:35

here for work opportunities

11:37

or for business opportunities . So a lot

11:39

of those multi-state issues

11:41

or actually , quite frankly here , international

11:43

issues too , because people come for oil and gas

11:45

, A lot of those do repeat

11:48

in the States . There's no doubt about that . But

11:50

beyond that , a lot of people

11:53

that we work with I would

11:55

say is a fairly common issue is because

11:57

it has been economically successful . Here it's

11:59

clients who have a fairly substantial

12:02

legacy buildup . They're usually looking

12:04

towards retirement . They're maybe thinking about

12:06

things like federal state tax , or at least

12:08

it's in their conversation , even if it's not really

12:10

a danger to them . They

12:13

might have kids , as I said , who have moved elsewhere

12:15

. They might have kids who are maybe

12:17

still in the area , but they tend to be mobile . So

12:20

a big part of it here is

12:22

figuring out the right way

12:24

to leave legacy , after accumulating like that

12:27

, to whomever the next loved one is . As

12:30

I alluded to before , that can be done in many ways

12:32

. So a lot of times what we're trying to figure

12:34

out is tax efficiency . Or

12:36

sometimes there's always

12:38

the question of when you're doing your estate planning you're talking

12:41

about property that you're leaving to whomever . Sometimes

12:44

there's a question of are you going to use

12:46

a plan that would necessitate probate

12:48

? Would you use a will that's going to go through a probate

12:50

process , which means a Texas process , or

12:53

do you try to do something that enables you to

12:55

be maybe more mobile for yourself or

12:57

very quick in how you pass assets

12:59

to other people ? So a lot of estate

13:02

planning , I'd say , is driven on at

13:04

least locally . For us is dealing

13:06

with clients who have a fairly substantial legacy

13:08

build up and want to be able to transfer

13:10

very efficiently , very cleanly

13:12

, if I can say it that way , with minimal

13:15

work on the back end and minimal

13:18

difficulty for their beneficiaries

13:20

or for their loved ones . So that's definitely number

13:22

one , I will say actually is an interesting

13:24

number two because and this is

13:26

, of course , true for everyone but because

13:29

so many people have moved here recently , it's

13:32

very interesting that incapacity planning

13:35

is a big focus here , because you might

13:37

have a situation where the

13:40

general term for this in your estate plan is you

13:42

have fiduciaries appointed , you have an executor

13:45

appointed , an agent or whatever the

13:47

particular hat might be . You

13:49

appoint these people to fulfill roles

13:51

in your estate plan . One of the ones we

13:54

struggle with here is when it comes to incapacity

13:56

planning specifically . People lack

13:59

a good choice for that , or

14:01

they maybe don't have someone

14:03

local who they want to do it , or their

14:05

kids have dispersed , or

14:08

perhaps they moved here for work and

14:10

so they're not as close to relatives of wherever

14:12

they came from , so those individuals aren't

14:14

great choices for it . So a lot

14:16

of it here too is , I'll

14:19

say , thorough incapacity planning and

14:21

figuring out who

14:24

could be a fiduciary , what kind of fiduciaries

14:26

to use , and basically brainstorming

14:29

solutions , the kinds of problems that

14:31

can sometimes create . So I'd say those two

14:33

definitely are very big issues here , certainly

14:36

.

14:36

That's really interesting , as you said

14:38

. Interesting number two , as

14:41

you brainstorm with people and you put some plans in

14:43

place to protect them in

14:46

the event of incapacity . That's got to be a huge

14:48

sense of peace of mind for

14:50

those clients .

14:52

I will say that it is definitely a peace of mind , because

14:54

all clients what they really want is they don't want to set a

14:56

documents , they want peace

14:58

of mind , they want

15:00

the relief of knowing things are taken

15:02

care of , which , in the end , is all of them we're hoping

15:04

to be able to give to people , and

15:07

it's interesting that , particularly with the incapacity

15:09

planning there really are , as I was saying before

15:11

, you need a lot of tools in the toolbox to solve

15:13

that , because there really is no one-size-fits-all

15:16

solution . Like it's a common

15:18

perception , I think , in what people like I

15:20

do , that this is a form-based

15:23

practice , that I have a stack of documents

15:25

in my office and I take one out , I just fill in

15:27

the next names and I keep passing it off . I'd

15:30

work a lot less if that

15:32

was the case , but it is not . So

15:35

you really do kind of have to dig sometimes deep

15:37

with these kinds of incapacity issues because you

15:39

have to figure out everything

15:42

from being really creative and finding

15:44

the appropriate person to do it . Putting the right

15:46

powers to that person is also a

15:48

big question . You know , if your agent

15:50

is somebody who you trust in a true

15:53

emergency but maybe don't really want them involved

15:55

in all of your business . There's a balancing

15:57

act that has to be done there . So

15:59

it really is a challenging

16:02

aspect of what we do to be able

16:04

to both figure out the solution , figure out the right

16:06

tool for it and find something the client can be help

16:08

, can be satisfied with and feel

16:11

good about .

16:12

You guys have been doing this in this community

16:14

for a very long time

16:16

. You've been there for about five years , but the

16:19

firm has been there for as we

16:21

talked earlier , about 25 . And

16:23

when we have chatted about this

16:25

, it seems like to me , as

16:28

an observer , one of the keys

16:30

to your guys' longevity has been

16:32

the stability of your staff

16:35

. Can you tell me a little bit about

16:37

you know what your staff

16:39

turnover looks like

16:41

and how important

16:43

that's been to your success

16:46

there ?

16:47

Our turnover has been very little , thankfully . So

16:51

we actually this is true

16:53

. It's very

16:55

nice that we have had a lot of stability with

16:57

our employees and in fact this actually just happened

16:59

earlier this week that we had a client

17:02

from years ago . It

17:04

was a longstanding case

17:06

that we had with the client that went on for

17:08

, I want to say , over five years

17:10

. It was a challenging litigation matter

17:12

. So it was sort of the nature of that kind of problem

17:15

. But the client

17:17

called and basically

17:20

, other than me , everyone here remembered

17:23

that client by name , you

17:25

know , because we have had the same people as

17:27

we did essentially over a decade ago and

17:29

that's actually been quite a good thing . So

17:31

I mean we did have , like Tammy Manning , who's

17:33

one of the founders she retired just

17:36

in the last couple of years but we

17:38

don't tend to have in all of

17:40

our key positions , much turnover , which

17:42

means we've built up good processes

17:44

, we're practiced at the processes

17:46

, we don't have a lot of the difficulties

17:49

that the turnover generates

17:51

. It is a true

17:53

statement in law and I know I've certainly

17:55

have seen , interacted or heard from clients

17:58

even though not our clients but people

18:01

working with lawyers a common frustration is the

18:03

amount of turnover at a firm , which

18:05

means they always feel like their case is now being handled

18:07

by somebody else than it was before . And

18:10

you know , I have definitely worked on

18:12

matters where I'm the third or fourth attorney and that is

18:15

not a good start . It's a necessary

18:17

but not a good start with a client . So

18:19

it's really helpful for us to be able to have

18:21

a client who calls . Like

18:24

I said , we all remember the person from in

18:26

my case five years , but everybody else's case 10

18:28

years later . So it's

18:30

good for the client , it's good for our efficiency

18:32

, it's just good in developing

18:35

a good relationship with clients .

18:37

Right and you avoid all of the costs and

18:39

the drama and the chaos of having

18:41

to replace people and interview

18:43

people and fire people and you know it's just

18:45

. You were able to really focus on the

18:48

client work and what you guys do best

18:50

by having a solid team like that .

18:52

Somebody a law school professor of mine

18:54

said something akin to no lawyer

18:57

wants to be a business person , which is not

18:59

quite right . But also we

19:01

did all this training and all this work

19:04

to be able to focus on a client problem , a

19:06

legal problem , and provide solution to

19:08

it . So , yes , I

19:10

think you , I'll speak for the entire profession

19:12

when I say the less

19:14

hiring we have to do , the less human

19:17

resource management that we have to do , the

19:19

better for everyone .

19:21

Absolutely , absolutely . So

19:23

, kevin , when you're in a firm that's kind of

19:25

been around you know for two and a half decades

19:28

, what , how do you see it in

19:30

the next three to five years ?

19:33

I see in terms of where we take our firm . Hopefully

19:37

more of the same , Hopefully

19:41

no serious need to

19:45

be doing more hiring , and just more of the stability

19:47

would be great . I do think it'll be interesting

19:50

and this is maybe a little bit beyond our firm and

19:52

maybe more to just where the practice in

19:54

general would go . But I think in

19:56

the next three to five years what we've been working

19:58

on in recent years is maybe

20:00

utilizing to its

20:02

full extent technology , everything

20:05

from client management to

20:07

during COVID . We all had to get very creative about

20:09

how we did this kind of practice . At

20:12

least in Texas , actual

20:15

signed documents originals

20:18

when it comes to wills are still the norm . Other

20:21

states are developing the options to do things

20:23

like electronic wills and different kinds

20:25

of all digital state

20:27

planning documents . So , other

20:30

than things like that , where I think we'll have to keep finding

20:32

ways to bring in technology , to keep bringing

20:35

this kind of expertise , as there's

20:37

maybe practical changes to what we do

20:39

, Hopefully it's just continuing

20:41

to build the practice while honing

20:44

our ability on that to help

20:46

create good outcomes for clients

20:48

.

20:50

Along those lines as well . If there's

20:52

someone listening to this podcast today and

20:55

they're a lawyer and they're practicing in

20:57

this area and they would like to grow

20:59

that practice in a

21:02

sustainable and profitable and enjoyable way

21:04

, which it sounds like you guys have been very successful

21:07

at doing that , what is some advice

21:09

that you would give to somebody else ?

21:14

So this actually is quite timely

21:16

. Not that long ago at a conference , I was talking to

21:18

a young lawyer about the same thing . I

21:22

would say first , the first

21:24

one is definitely to focus

21:26

on client experience , and

21:28

I mean in the sense of it's more than

21:31

just doing a competent job for

21:33

an attorney , because really , why

21:35

we do this is to actually

21:37

serve the needs of customer . You

21:39

want to say it that way , so , and

21:42

there's been business studies done on this but essentially

21:44

, where people have good

21:46

outcomes with a provider

21:48

of any service , like we would be , it's

21:50

where the experience is good . It's where things are

21:53

easy on their end to

21:55

have efficient meetings

21:57

, to be able to quickly and easily

21:59

get through things , where there's communication and

22:01

just to have them feel like their needs are taken care

22:04

of , where you get that good outcome I mentioned

22:06

earlier of feeling

22:09

the relief of having things

22:11

done or the peace of mind of knowing

22:13

these things are done . You want to get clients

22:15

through easily , efficiently

22:18

and simply , if possible

22:20

, so they can get to that . Because , really , client

22:22

experience is both the

22:24

best way of growing your practice

22:26

I mean , truly it is because you need

22:29

people who will be willing to say this was good experience

22:31

in that , but also just because then you

22:33

get other people interested

22:35

in it . They share that good outcome and

22:38

honestly , it's better for our peace of mind where

22:40

we can have that good relationship with clients

22:42

and then only do they become repeat clients

22:44

. But you just simply don't have to divert

22:47

your energy to difficult

22:49

relationships and then you can just keep focusing

22:51

on providing the service . So it's probably

22:53

easier said than done , but good

22:55

client relationships and focusing on client

22:58

experience probably definitely the number one . Two

23:01

and I think this comes for me because

23:04

I had my own firm so early on in my

23:06

practice but the

23:09

marketing aspect they always be

23:11

looking for new clients and a little bit

23:13

that's because of the transactional nature of what we

23:15

do . But also , you

23:18

know , I think , as I said before

23:20

, clients they really want to be their attorneys , didn't really want to be

23:22

business people , but

23:24

they also don't always think

23:26

about the fact that we're not doing this just

23:29

for ourselves . Right , we're not doing

23:31

Ironically , I did just

23:33

do my own estate plan update last weekend but

23:36

like we're not really doing this for ourselves

23:38

, you know what I mean Like we need to do this for other

23:40

people . So to constantly be generating

23:42

opportunities for marketing , to

23:44

constantly be able to promote what your services

23:47

are , to help people find your services

23:49

, is definitely number two , because it

23:51

doesn't matter how good you are at this If you

23:53

do not have a client to do it for it's

23:55

a waste of talent . So to constantly

23:58

be finding opportunities and good opportunities

24:00

to market and sort of

24:02

expand yourself are always good

24:04

things to do . And then

24:06

number three in this I guess really doesn't start

24:08

too different than to tie into the first two or

24:10

maybe it's the fruit of the first two but

24:13

get client reviews . I

24:16

have found that to be an extremely

24:18

beneficial thing in our practice

24:20

, both for growing . You

24:22

know we have lots of good client reviews that are either

24:24

hosted on our website or sometimes

24:26

a third party services . Google reviews

24:28

has been outstanding

24:31

honestly , quite frankly . For that it

24:33

helps with your SEO . It helps when people actually

24:35

look at that . Before they've talked to a soul , they

24:37

don't have to know somebody who went here , they just see all the

24:39

positive reviews and experiences and

24:42

then they know that hypothetical client

24:44

knows all of these people had

24:47

that good client experience and then know

24:49

they should expect the same when you work

24:51

with them . That's half the battle right

24:53

there . And so being able to do the reviews

24:55

and get that feedback has been great from a growing

24:58

perspective and then quite honestly it's

25:00

the less positive aspect of it , but a necessary

25:03

one . If you get a negative review , there's

25:05

also potentially a learning experience there

25:07

, or at least something you can keep

25:09

building , and the feedback you can

25:11

use to improve

25:13

your own practice to some degree . So definitely

25:15

, reviews is both worth

25:18

getting to develop your company and just

25:20

to get those new clients

25:22

that you would want to come through the door .

25:24

Well , I couldn't agree more with all 3 aspects

25:27

of those tips that the focusing

25:29

on the client experience , making sure

25:32

that you are investing in and getting

25:34

your marketing dialed in , and then you

25:37

just bring those 2 together Client

25:39

experience , great marketing , great reviews

25:41

and lots of them . Kevin

25:44

, as always , it has been an absolute

25:46

pleasure to visit with you today

25:49

. For those of you who are listening

25:51

, we're very proud that we hosted

25:53

, designed and hosted their website . So if you

25:55

want to reach out to Kevin

25:58

, learn a little bit more about their law firm , their

26:00

website is wwwGalligan-lawcom

26:05

and

26:08

you can look and see what their marketing looks

26:11

like and what their branding looks like . And if you have

26:13

any questions for Kevin

26:15

excuse me , for Kevin specifically you can

26:17

contact him through that website . Thank

26:21

you , thank you , kevin , and we will

26:23

be talking to you again soon .

26:26

Thank you very much . That's

26:29

a wrap on this edition of the marketing law

26:31

cast . Thanks for joining us . Head

26:33

over to wwwimsrockscom

26:37

for more growth focused insights

26:39

. If you're ready to skyrocket your

26:41

firm's marketing , don't hesitate to

26:43

book a free discovery call with our team

26:45

right on our website . Here's

26:48

to your success . See you next

26:50

time .