0:13

Hi everyone. Thank you for joining us and welcome

0:14

to our MedTech and Health equity panel

0:18

discussion with Accenture. The topic of today's discussion is

0:20

how MedTech can help address health

0:24

inequities. I am Olivia Phillips, manager

0:24

of Equity Initiatives here at matter.

0:29

And just for those who are

0:29

not familiar with matter,

0:32

here's a little background matter is

0:32

a healthcare technology incubator and

0:36

innovation hub. Built on the belief that collaboration

0:37

between entrepreneurs and industry

0:41

leaders is the best way to

0:41

develop healthcare solutions.

0:44

Our mission is to accelerate the

0:44

pace of change of healthcare,

0:47

and we do three things in

0:47

service of this mission. First,

0:51

we incubate startups. Since we

0:51

launched about eight years ago,

0:55

we worked with over 800 companies

0:55

that range from very early to growth

1:00

stage startups, and we have

1:00

a suite of services to help.

1:03

At every stage of development, our member companies have raised more

1:05

than $5 billion to fuel their growth.

1:10

Second, we work with large organizations.

1:10

This includes healthcare systems,

1:15

life science companies,

1:15

payers, and others.

1:18

To strengthen their innovation capacity, we help 'em find value in

1:21

emerging technology solutions,

1:24

unlock the full potential of

1:24

their internal innovators,

1:28

and create a more human-centered

1:28

healthcare experience through system level

1:32

collaborations and third

1:32

matter serves as a nexus

1:36

for those who are passionate

1:36

about healthcare innovation.

1:40

We like to bring people

1:40

together to be inspired,

1:42

to learn and to connect with each

1:42

other. We produce a lot of events,

1:47

some open to the public, and some

1:47

exclusive to our members and partners.

1:51

Today's event is about

1:51

helping us understand how to

1:56

While we know that social determinants

1:56

of health account for over 80% of an

2:00

individual's health, actually addressing these factors

2:01

can be challenging in practice.

2:05

We're thrilled to co-host today's

2:05

program with our partner Accenture,

2:09

who does extensive research into health

2:09

inequities and how the healthcare

2:13

industry and MedTech

2:13

can help address them.

2:17

Accenture's US health equity beyond the

2:17

statistics report found three key areas

2:21

to focus on when developing MedTech

2:21

solutions to improve health and healthcare

2:26

delivery. The first is mitigating

2:26

bias and data and algorithms,

2:31

the second designing inclusive

2:31

products and services, and the third,

2:35

creating sustainable and

2:35

structural change. With that,

2:39

I would like to introduce our moderator

2:39

for this panel, Laura Westerkamp,

2:43

director of Accenture's Life

2:43

Sciences and MedTech practice. Laura,

2:46

I'll let you take it away. Hi, Olivia. Thank you so

2:48

much and I really, really

2:53

We are so glad to be here today and we're

2:53

so glad that you've taken time out on

2:57

your Friday to join us to dig

2:57

into this really important topic,

3:02

which is how can MedTech play a

3:02

more significant role in addressing

3:07

health inequities? So Olivia,

3:07

thank you for the introduction.

3:12

My name is Laura Westerkamp. I'm

3:12

a managing director at Accenture.

3:17

I focus a lot on new commercial

3:17

models and experience,

3:20

and I'm really honored to

3:20

moderate today's panel with some

3:25

very, very esteemed panelists who will

3:25

introduce themselves in just one moment,

3:31

we're going to cover

3:31

three big areas today,

3:33

which Olivia gave you a short

3:33

preview of that really come out of

3:37

this recent report that we issued around

3:37

US Health inequity and how we can start

3:42

to get beyond the statistics. The first big bucket of questions that

3:44

we've got for our panelists is around

3:48

creating sustainable structural change.

3:48

The second is around

3:52

supporting access and

3:52

awareness. And thirdly,

3:55

we'll talk a little bit about how

3:55

we can start addressing some of the

4:00

bias that exists in data and algorithms,

4:04

which is so important in MedTech,

4:06

especially with all of the discussion

4:06

around generative AI and other

4:10

tools. So with that,

4:13

I would like to get the discussion going.

4:16

We'll spend about 30 minutes on these

4:16

questions and we will make sure we've got

4:20

about 15 minutes at the end to

4:20

address questions from the audience.

4:24

I know last round the folks

4:24

that were able to join

4:29

us had quite a few, so we want

4:29

to make sure we get to those.

4:31

Although I'll note it might

4:31

be tough to get to all of 'em,

4:34

but we'll do our very, very best. So

4:34

please keep those coming as we go. Okay.

4:38

All right. So I'll ask the

4:38

panelists to pop on video and to

4:43

introduce themselves.

4:43

So if we could, Nick,

4:48

I'd love if you could get us started and

4:48

tell us a little bit about yourself and

4:52

your role at Phillips. Yeah, absolutely Laura.

4:55

So I'm the general manager of what

4:55

Phillips calls our virtual care business,

5:00

and what that means is we

5:00

support and deliver solutions to

5:04

patients or healthcare members

5:04

who are not in a clinical setting.

5:10

So think about a diabetic

5:10

who's out in the world,

5:12

how can we better help that

5:12

person live a healthier,

5:16

longer life without necessarily having

5:16

to go into a healthcare setting to

5:20

receive the care that they need as

5:20

they go about their daily business?

5:25

Awesome. Well, thank you Nick. What an

5:25

important and interesting area. Fido,

5:29

maybe you could tell us a little bit

5:29

about yourself too before we get rolling.

5:33

Hi Laura and hi to everyone.

5:33

Thanks for the opportunity.

5:36

Looking forward to the next

5:36

hour. So I'm Fido Willie Biro.

5:40

I've been with BD 15 years plus.

5:43

I lead the commercial marketing team

5:43

for medication delivery solution

5:47

business, which really focuses

5:48

on providing access to

5:53

anything ranging from your syringes to

5:53

the IV catheters to actually even more

5:58

complex devices. So honored to be here and excited

5:59

for this discussion today.

6:04

Thank you, Fido. Providing access for tools that really

6:05

help enable treatments is so critical.

6:10

So we're really looking forward

6:10

to your perspective. Okay, Jackie?

6:15

Sure. Thank you Laura, and thank

6:15

you Olivia for that terrific setup.

6:19

Also happy to be here and sort of thrilled

6:19

to be talking about a subject near

6:24

and dear to my heart. So

6:24

at Johnson and Johnson,

6:27

I lead our global policy institute

6:27

within our government affairs and policy

6:31

team and lead a team of experts

6:31

in payment and delivery system

6:36

reform. So that means our

6:36

day-to-day is Medicare, medicaid,

6:40

payment and health system

6:40

delivery redesign, et cetera.

6:45

And we do that for both med

6:45

tech and farm life sciences,

6:49

which is very interesting to

6:49

get to work across both sectors.

6:53

Although when it comes to health equity, we find a tremendous amount

6:54

of synergy and opportunity.

6:58

So prior to joining j and j,

7:00

I was a tenure veteran of C M

7:00

s and there I was charged with

7:04

implementing a number of

7:04

the key provisions of the

7:09

community-based occupational therapist

7:09

practicing in the neighborhoods of

7:12

Baltimore City where I

7:12

got started in healthcare.

7:15

So happy to be here and look

7:15

forward to the discussion.

7:19

Thank you so much Jackie. Having that lens of

7:20

payer and really access I

7:25

think is so critical. So we're really,

7:27

really looking forward to hearing

7:27

your voice on these topics,

7:30

especially with I R A and so much

7:30

happening across the industry right now in

7:34

this area. It's just so,

7:34

so critical. Okay, Oliver,

7:38

if you could round us out, would love to learn a little bit more

7:40

about your background too before we get

7:43

going. Great, thanks Laura and thanks

7:44

everybody for the audience here today,

7:49

I've been working in healthcare and

7:49

life sciences for the last couple

7:53

decades. I am focused on MedTech

7:53

strategy within Accenture,

7:58

managing director within the practice,

7:58

and I think similar to Jackie,

8:02

I take a pretty wide lens where

8:02

I focus across pharma and med

8:07

device and diagnostics and really

8:07

looking through that from a patient and a

8:11

provider lens. So really looking forward to talking

8:13

about some of the challenges that we see

8:18

and some of the opportunities that we

8:18

see to improve health equity during the

8:21

discussion today. Yeah, perfect. Oliver, we appreciate

8:23

that. Taking the broad lens,

8:27

this is such a broad

8:27

and deep systemic issue.

8:31

I think all of the different perspectives

8:31

you bring will be so important to the

8:34

discussion and really furthering it

8:34

as a med tech in pharma community.

8:39

Alright, so let's start with the first

8:39

big topic area and that's around creating

8:43

sustainable and structural change. Fido,

8:46

I think we're going to pass

8:46

this first question to you.

8:50

So this one is really around

8:50

investments and we hear a lot

8:55

around investments and things

8:55

that MedTech is doing in the

9:00

industry right now. I'd love to get your perspective around

9:01

what are some of the investments that

9:05

you believe need to be

9:05

made by MedTech now and

9:10

potentially a little bit in the future

9:10

to really see some lasting improvements

9:15

in health equity. Fido,

9:15

what's your perspective?

9:18

Yeah, Laura, thanks for the question.

9:18

I think, well, a couple of things,

9:21

creating a healthier and more

9:21

equitable world is really

9:26

core. So I think what we

9:26

all represent on this call,

9:30

and so we're focusing here at bd, we're focusing on some of the most

9:32

challenging global health issues. I mean,

9:36

if you think about from

9:36

supplying instruments in the

9:41

world's first portfolio trials in

9:41

the fifties to delivering more than

9:46

2 billion syringes to

9:46

combat Covid pandemic,

9:50

we at BD have been involved and have

9:50

been looking at partnering and leading

9:55

in those spaces. But ultimately to improve

9:57

health equity collectively,

10:01

we must first the knowledge that

10:01

the health system is not equal

10:06

and until it is they

10:06

cannot be health equity.

10:09

So what we do here at BD is we

10:09

actually make innovative technologies,

10:15

but there's no point making

10:15

innovative technologies if those

10:19

technologies cannot be used or

10:19

leveraged or accessed by those that

10:24

I know most needs. So going back to your

10:24

question around what we can do and how

10:29

we're thinking about

10:29

making it more equitable,

10:33

there's really three areas that

10:33

we typically would focus on.

10:36

One is really around

10:36

public private partnership.

10:40

It's very clear when you think about a

10:40

health equity that industry alone cannot

10:45

do it. You really need a public-private

10:46

partnership to drive toward a

10:51

more equitable world. So we build partnerships

10:53

with government agencies,

10:57

nonprofit organizations, advocacy groups that support

10:59

innovative ways to care for

11:04

those that are vulnerable and meet them where they are,

11:10

where they are while also

11:10

helping improve their setting.

11:14

We also partner across the

11:14

industry with ED on the medical

11:19

technology fraud. We understand that industry

11:20

partners play a big role

11:25

in driving toward health equity, but I think we all kind of

11:27

technology and innovator providers.

11:32

So we also obviously look at

11:32

the solutions we develop and we

11:37

continuously look to develop

11:37

solutions that from the

11:42

core beginning include

11:42

the concept of equity,

11:46

ensuring that the accessible,

11:46

affordable and so forth.

11:49

So these are some areas that we're

11:49

focusing on and really trying to drive and

11:54

march toward a more

11:54

equitable healthcare system.

11:59

Fido, that is so encouraging to hear.

12:01

And if I were to summarize what I'm

12:01

hearing you say is it's really about

12:05

starting from the beginning, very intentionally investing in the

12:06

right relationships that have the

12:11

end user in mind or have,

12:11

gosh, I hate to say it,

12:15

but some of those challenges or barriers

12:15

that might exist even from a public

12:20

standpoint so that you can

12:20

start to address the needs.

12:24

I think you said something really

12:24

compelling there and Jack many things,

12:28

but Jackie, I would love to get

12:28

your perspective on this one.

12:31

To build on Fido's point, you said there's no point

12:33

in making innovative

12:37

technologies without access,

12:42

which I completely agree because we've

12:42

seen especially at places like Matter,

12:48

fantastic startups, but we

12:48

just don't have the pathway.

12:52

So Jackie, if you don't mind, I'd love to just get your perspective

12:53

around some of those pathways for

12:57

innovation and from an access standpoint,

13:00

maybe what you're starting

13:00

to see in the marketplace.

13:04

Sure, thank you. I think what has felt fresh

13:06

and new in this space or in

13:11

this new era in zeki and focus

13:11

on health equity has been this

13:16

intentional, meaningful,

13:16

focused, insert favorite,

13:20

your favorite group there, attention on the importance

13:22

of the private and public

13:27

sector partnership. And I think

13:27

that is a term that can be overused,

13:31

but it is going to be the lever we

13:31

really need to create the structural

13:36

and permanent change here. Perhaps this is my long-winded way of

13:38

saying I think we've been talking about

13:41

health equity for a long time,

13:43

but what we really need to do is

13:43

move and pivot from what feel like

13:48

episodic pilots or programs

13:48

to building those longer term

13:52

foundational structures we need in

13:52

order to make sure that all Americans

13:58

experience an equitable system of

13:58

not only healthcare but social care.

14:02

And so at j and j that

14:02

means a couple of things,

14:06

and I'll echo certainly echo a number

14:06

of the sentiments that Fido shared,

14:11

but one, we really have put a lot of time

14:13

in thinking about the response

14:17

to whether it was Freddie Gray

14:17

or whether it was covid or a

14:22

number of the prevailing social issues

14:22

of our time where we think we should

14:27

invest meaningfully.

14:27

And so we did make a decision in 2020 to

14:32

launch what we refer to as our

14:32

race to health equity campaign.

14:36

And within that campaign we thought to

14:36

pledge over a hundred million dollars

14:40

over five years to directly combat

14:40

racial and social injustice.

14:45

And to me, what was really meaningful about J and

14:46

J's commitment there is that we took a

14:50

step back and we started from the

14:50

perspective of directly having to

14:55

address, make the

14:55

statement, treat it head on,

14:59

that racial and social injustice

14:59

is a public health threat.

15:03

And making a statement of that

15:03

should not be as historical,

15:06

historically controversial as it has been.

15:09

And so then we had to do

15:09

the hard work to say, okay,

15:11

then really what is our role in this

15:11

space as a large healthcare company,

15:15

as a multi-sector company in both the

15:15

life sciences and in med tech. And

15:20

after some real thoughtful analysis, we really anchored on three areas.

15:26

One is that we need to live into

15:26

creating healthier communities and really

15:31

having an understanding of

15:31

that intersection of the

15:35

healthcare that we couldn't do

15:35

this alone and certainly needed

15:40

to foster new and unique

15:40

diverse alliances.

15:44

And sort of the last part

15:44

of our three-part theme

15:48

start at home. We needed to cultivate an inclusive

15:50

workforce and add real intentional

15:55

and critical milestones

15:55

to that commitment.

15:59

And I think this pulled through

15:59

pretty well in our MedTech space where

16:04

we have spent a lot of time and resources

16:04

thinking about an inclusive healthcare

16:09

workforce across MedTech,

16:09

not only inside of j and j,

16:12

but being very intentional and mindful

16:12

about diversity within our contracting

16:17

resources, diversity

16:17

in our health systems,

16:20

enhancing patient and provider

16:20

education and diverse spaces. And then

16:25

to your primary question here,

16:27

how do we enhance patient education

16:27

and access to innovative medical

16:31

technology and services?

16:34

And so that is really where my

16:34

hook and expertise has come in

16:39

and I think it's really challenging, but it's how do we advance policies

16:40

to create those sustainable

16:45

changes and what type of policies do we

16:45

and social I justice interventions do we

16:49

need to pursue across sectors to

16:49

really create this sustainable

16:54

change. So I'll throw in a couple ideas,

16:56

but happy to discuss any of this

16:56

throughout the discussion today.

17:00

First and foremost, we believe we need to protect and

17:01

strengthen the health safety net.

17:05

So we do pay a lot of attention

17:05

to Medicare and Medicaid policy

17:11

and making sure that the

17:11

traditional access to healthcare

17:16

services are improved upon for all people.

17:19

But then I think more aggressively it's

17:19

really thinking about how do you promote

17:23

care delivery models that incentivize

17:23

payment reforms that really address

17:27

equity and directly recognize the

17:27

role of addressing to Olivia's earlier

17:32

point social care and healthcare, whether or not you refer to that as

17:34

social determinants of health or what have

17:38

you really understanding that you need

17:38

to directly address and finance the

17:42

intersection of those two components.

17:42

And although it's painful to talk

17:47

about healthcare financing, you

17:47

do have to follow the money.

17:50

So if the systems were

17:50

further incentivized and

17:54

services over time, it also helps us partner in multi-sector

17:56

commitments to promote longer term

18:00

structural change. I know you're going to have a rich

18:01

discussion about data and digital and AI

18:06

technologies, but we have a strong

18:09

understanding and commitment in

18:14

terms of the significant role that data

18:14

and digital technologies will play in

18:18

advancing health equity, both

18:18

in the sort of more obvious,

18:21

making sure everybody has access, but

18:21

also in the more thorny and tricky,

18:25

which is to make sure that these data

18:25

sources aren't used to risk adjust in ways

18:29

that may be harmful to traditionally

18:29

marginalized populations. So really,

18:34

really tackling those issues straight

18:34

on and really getting at how do we

18:39

collect and develop and

18:39

foster data beyond traditional

18:44

epidemiologic data that includes

18:44

cultural data in terms of

18:50

developing policies that

18:50

are inclusive and responsive

18:55

to those in need. Yeah, Jackie, wow,

18:57

it sounds like you and the j and j team

18:57

have really crafted a comprehensive

19:02

approach to thinking about health

19:02

equity and having that commitment

19:07

really built from the start and how you

19:07

work and how you think about not just

19:11

your business but the people that

19:11

you're serving and impacting.

19:16

You said something in there that

19:16

I run into a lot with my clients.

19:20

I think for the startups

19:20

on the phone for matter,

19:23

they probably run into a

19:23

lot too, which is a little,

19:26

you didn't quite say this exactly, but I'm going to synthesize

19:27

it into Laura terms,

19:30

which is sometimes there's a little

19:30

bit of death by pilot with these equity

19:34

initiatives and we kind of lose the thread

19:34

on the scalability and what's really

19:39

realistic in the market. So I think that's an incredible point

19:41

and something for us to all bear in mind.

19:45

And actually I want to flip it over to

19:45

Nick because I think there's a thread

19:50

here around inclusive

19:50

design strategies. And Nick,

19:53

I know you've spent a lot

19:53

of time in this space,

19:56

so I'd love to get your perspective on,

19:59

and I think Jackie

19:59

started to touch on this,

20:01

what are some of the practical methods

20:01

that you use and you've used throughout

20:05

your career to really involve those

20:05

underrepresented communities in the design

20:10

of healthcare products and services so

20:10

you can make sure that there's that voice

20:14

in the development process from

20:14

pilot to scale and really what

20:19

ultimately gets into the market.

20:19

Nick, what's your perspective on this?

20:25

I think first of all, just

20:25

to maybe build on something

20:30

both our panelists have already said. So one was meeting that

20:32

patient or that user where

20:37

they are considering the

20:37

context of the end user,

20:41

which is often going to be a patient

20:41

and not a clinician depending on the use

20:46

case. And I think that the policy

20:46

context is super important as well,

20:52

because what the policy context

20:52

influences is affordability.

20:57

And in the US we've intentionally

20:57

designed our programs and our

21:01

health structures, and in many cases we call it the

21:03

consumerization of healthcare.

21:07

What it really means is

21:07

making people pay for things.

21:12

If we strip back all of the nice

21:12

language, so that means copays,

21:17

high deductible plans, and we as med tech and health tech

21:20

need to really think about that.

21:25

So what does that mean for us concretely?

21:28

It means if you design your

21:28

program around a thousand

21:33

dollars phone, that's

21:33

not inclusive design.

21:37

If you design it around

21:37

an $800 smartwatch,

21:42

that's not inclusive design because

21:42

you're immediately eliminating a huge

21:46

portion of the population. Often the population who may

21:48

need that remote or connected

21:52

capability the most, and especially if they're going to be

21:55

in a program where there's going to be

21:59

copays or high deductibles

21:59

or what have you,

22:01

where it's all funded out of pocket,

22:01

that becomes a real challenge.

22:05

So a couple of things that we think

22:05

about when we think about servicing

22:10

populations is first of all, how can we make sure that

22:12

Medicaid rural patients

22:17

start with them? If you can solve for that

22:18

particular cohort of patients,

22:23

they are the lowest income and

22:23

they're the hardest to reach.

22:26

They're usually at least an hour

22:26

away from any healthcare provider.

22:29

If you can provide access and

22:29

include them in your program,

22:33

you can kind of work upmarket,

22:35

if you will from there.

22:35

The second one is we spend much as

22:41

Jackie talked about for j and j, we spend a ton of time

22:42

working with state and

22:47

federal level policy makers

22:47

around things like access,

22:53

but really, for example,

22:53

we've worked in Georgia,

22:56

how can we work with Georgia to

22:56

make all 26 counties provide free

23:01

remote prenatal care to pregnant mothers?

23:05

Why is that a concrete example? Because the US has one of the

23:08

highest costs of birth and one of the

23:12

lowest and outcomes in

23:12

terms of complications,

23:17

miscarriages, post-birth NICU

23:23

entries. So if we can

23:23

help move the needle,

23:27

we can lower the cost of care, but we

23:27

need to cost shift a little bit, right?

23:31

We need to invest upfront so we can

23:31

reap the benefits at the backend.

23:36

And really the only one who

23:36

can do that is the government.

23:40

The government is the only one that

23:40

has that long-term perspective of its

23:43

citizens, right?

23:43

Individual payers,

23:45

we all rotate through payers

23:45

as you rotate through jobs.

23:50

So I think you have to combine three

23:50

dimensions that we've talked about here.

23:55

So first of all, designed for

23:55

that end user where they are.

23:58

And if you start with the

23:58

hardest end user group,

24:03

which again for us our kind of

24:03

benchmark is rural Medicaid patients

24:08

designed for what they will use,

24:10

what access they have to

24:10

connectivity to technology,

24:15

et cetera. The second element is if

24:15

you can meet them where they are,

24:20

how can then you design those programs

24:20

to engage them in a way that empowers

24:25

them to take control of their healthcare

24:25

without it frankly costing them?

24:30

Remove that friction point. And then the third one is

24:31

work like hell at policy,

24:35

both at the federal and the

24:35

state level to try to remove

24:40

practical barriers to care copays, right?

24:43

There's a host resolution going through

24:43

right now around eliminating copays

24:47

for telehealth, which were eliminated as part of

24:49

the pandemic and now have come back.

24:52

For instance, how can you make and expand access

24:54

to telehealth for conditions beyond

24:59

the 65 year old Medicare patient?

25:03

These are very practical policy

25:03

decisions that once implemented can

25:08

move the needle incredibly fast,

25:08

as we saw with Covid, right?

25:12

So we have a predicate situation

25:12

that now we can look back on and say,

25:16

how can we use that situation where

25:16

for a very specific circumstance,

25:20

we implemented essentially a national

25:20

healthcare policy overnight and

25:25

pull that through to move the

25:25

needle for additional cohorts of

25:30

patients like pregnant mothers?

25:34

Yeah. Nick, I, gosh, I think

25:38

it's such a great point around

25:38

ensuring that our policy isn't so

25:43

shortsighted and that we're really, we have the benefit of some time to see

25:45

the outcomes and the impact of some of

25:49

these good decisions that we made, especially around telehealth

25:51

during the pandemic that have now

25:56

slowly or quickly been eroded and made

25:56

things a little bit more difficult.

26:01

And Nick, the point around rural patients is very

26:03

close to my heart as someone from Iowa

26:07

and from a rural area, I've seen

26:07

firsthand there's some challenges there,

26:12

and it's encouraging to think

26:12

about Medicaid rural patients as a,

26:16

if we can get them sorted, then we've got a lot of hope in

26:18

rethinking inclusive design. Oliver,

26:23

I'm curious if you've got

26:23

any thoughts or reactions.

26:25

I know you've spent some time in this space as well, working with a number

26:28

of different clients. Any reactions with all

26:30

the richness from Fido,

26:34

Jackie and Nick and

26:34

what they both on here?

26:38

Yeah, I think a lot of great points,

26:38

and I mean I think as a starting point,

26:42

Nick, I think the point about

26:42

Covid kind of being a test bed

26:47

and a driver of, Hey, we can

26:47

make these changes quickly,

26:53

I think was really interesting. I think one of the problems that

26:54

we've seen over time is that

26:59

there is interest in improving

26:59

health access and health equity,

27:04

but it takes a lot of momentum to

27:04

get that rolling. And so again,

27:08

I think it's a good proof point that yes, we can adjust quickly and we can move

27:10

quickly. The other point I would say,

27:13

I mean I'd be curious to get some

27:13

of the other panelists thoughts.

27:17

How much of this is a

27:17

technology problem to be solved

27:21

versus a process problem to be solved?

27:24

I think a lot of times what we see

27:24

is that there are opportunities,

27:28

to your point, to provide

27:28

care at different settings,

27:31

to innovate from it the

27:31

way that these patients are

27:36

interacting with the healthcare system, where they're interacting

27:38

at what step in the process.

27:41

And so in some ways it's

27:41

almost a combination of that.

27:44

And then I think to Jackie's point, there has to be a policy angle to it and

27:47

an incentivization angle to it to make

27:52

sure that all of the relevant

27:52

players are falling into line

27:57

with the direction that things are moving. But I guess I would open that up to

27:59

the panel of what is this a technology

28:04

problem? Is this a process problem? And maybe Fido would love to,

28:09

especially with the area that you

28:09

work in around access. And Jackie,

28:13

I'm sure you've got a perspective on this

28:13

one too, to Oliver's point, but Fido,

28:16

maybe you could kick us off. And then

28:16

Jackie, if you have anything to add?

28:21

Yeah, thanks Laura. I just

28:21

got a couple simple thoughts,

28:24

and I completely agree with what

28:24

Nick was describing in my mind is

28:29

it is simple. There's probably three areas to focus on,

28:36

and I think, Laura, you mentioned some of the folks attending

28:37

the calls are more on the startup side

28:41

and whatnot. So when you're

28:41

thinking about inclusive design,

28:45

I think to Nick's point,

28:45

meet your patient, meet your

28:50

So that really means understanding

28:55

what the core requirements are

28:55

going to be for these technology,

28:59

these solutions to be used and

28:59

leveraged by those end users.

29:03

So I think investing upfront in

29:03

better understanding and defining

29:09

the requirements or the needs of that

29:09

customer population is going to be key.

29:14

The second piece to me as well is where

29:14

there's still opportunities is I think

29:18

as we look at our teams, as we are

29:18

looking at the team of developers,

29:22

make sure that within your

29:22

teams you can have that voice,

29:26

that can be the voice to

29:26

support the need of driving

29:31

more of an inclusive and an

29:31

equitable design. So I think there's

29:36

opportunities for sure for the developing

29:36

teams to continue to ensure that we

29:40

reflect that. And now on the

29:40

development side as well,

29:43

when you think about requirements,

29:43

product requirements,

29:47

I think there's still a lot of

29:47

opportunities there to ensure that even in

29:51

developing and defining the

29:51

core product requirements,

29:55

requirements as well

29:55

in themselves look for

29:59

equitable type of a design. So I

29:59

think when you think of that front,

30:03

there's quite a lot of

30:03

opportunities. And then finally,

30:06

just like I think Jackie, Nick,

30:06

and then the panel was saying here,

30:09

you can't do this on your own. So there's still a very big

30:11

angle of the public private

30:16

partnership of really finding how these

30:16

technologies and these solutions are

30:19

going to be funded. But so

30:19

it's really an ecosystem

30:25

of processes, tools, and people coming together that are

30:26

going to be needed in order to drive a

30:30

better equitable type designs.

30:35

Yeah. Excellent, excellent points.

30:35

Jackie, do you want to add anything?

30:39

Yeah, I'll just pick right up

30:39

where Fido left off. I mean,

30:42

the short answer to your question is

30:42

this process and structural or something

30:46

that technology can solve for,

30:46

I mean, it's both. I mean,

30:49

there's not a simple solution

30:49

to advancing health equity.

30:52

And we went at this for 10 years

30:52

in the Obama administration,

30:56

and there we aim to handle access

30:56

first in terms of the A c A

31:01

and Medicaid expansion. But we didn't pivot fast enough to

31:02

health equity. And if it was simple,

31:07

I think we would. And so what I

31:07

think is fresh and new to echo,

31:11

something I said at the outset of this

31:11

call is the collective interest and

31:14

passion of multiple different stakeholders

31:14

coming together and throwing all of

31:18

our collective tools at that, whether or not it's the

31:20

incubators and the startups.

31:23

And I'd echo the comments of our panelists

31:23

about the importance of inclusive

31:28

design and being financially incentivized

31:28

to meet customers where they are is

31:33

a terrific tool in that toolbox

31:33

within j and j and our med tech

31:38

efforts. I would be very remiss if I

31:38

didn't mention the importance of diversity

31:43

in clinical trials among a number of

31:43

partners in our organization who are

31:47

passionately working at this.

31:50

We have an effort called the

31:50

Research includes Me program, which

31:55

it's sort of a simple concept, but

31:55

we recognize was very much needed.

31:59

That helps folks understand

31:59

what is the profile of clinical

32:03

trials that are available. Does it promote and

32:05

promote inclusivity and

32:09

representation? That looks like all of

32:09

us, and we know the answer, there is no.

32:13

So we have a lot of work underway.

32:16

We also have a campaign

32:16

called Our Health Can't Wait,

32:20

which was a result of covid,

32:22

which we understood and experienced very

32:22

much in the med tech side of the house,

32:26

which was that folks wore foregoing

32:26

really important critical procedures and

32:31

treatments during that

32:31

time. And of course,

32:34

who were those that most suffered

32:34

were those who were traditionally

32:37

marginalized. So I think we are

32:37

collectively in this together.

32:43

And whether or not you're a behemoth

32:43

in healthcare like j and j maybe,

32:47

or somebody out there on the line

32:47

who's working on the front lines of an

32:50

incubator, you have an important role to play and

32:51

appreciate the form to bring us together.

32:55

Yeah, excellent, Jackie, that it cannot be understated. The criticality

32:59

of diversity in clinical trials.

33:04

And when we think about health equity,

33:07

I often don't think as

33:07

much about women's health,

33:11

which is very misplaced, but the lack of clinical

33:13

evidence specific for women

33:18

for some of our most established

33:18

medications on market is just really

33:22

remarkable. So rethinking the difference

33:23

between the biologies and how we.

33:27

Or pregnant women, right? Pregnant

33:27

it, it's the first, to Nick's point,

33:31

first I was a pregnant woman

33:31

during Covid at the vaccine.

33:35

Do I not get the vaccine? Do I get

33:35

the treatment for, I mean, so yeah,

33:38

it's a really good point. Yeah, absolutely. Gosh,

33:43

and having that risk of safety is so

33:47

terrifying. So how the industry can

33:47

help address that is so critical.

33:52

I think we've talked a lot

33:52

about supporting access

33:56

discussion around patient, including them,

34:00

making sure that we think about

34:00

working with the government,

34:04

working with different organizations

34:04

to really reach patients.

34:10

So I'm going to move us over to

34:10

mitigating bias and data and algorithms,

34:14

and we certainly can go back to access

34:14

and awareness if we have some time.

34:18

But again, I do want to make sure that we've got

34:18

the opportunity for the audience to ask a

34:22

few questions. Jackie, I

34:22

know we just tapped you,

34:26

but if you don't mind, we'd love it if you could get us

34:28

started off with this question as well.

34:32

So this is really all

34:32

around unbiased AI impact.

34:35

So with the emergence of

34:35

digital health tools in MedTech,

34:39

we think there's an opportunity to deliver

34:39

more transformative value to patients

34:44

and to improve outcomes.

34:44

So with that said,

34:48

how do you think we can really make

34:48

sure that we're using all this digital

34:53

data, these clinical data solutions,

34:55

which you just talked a little bit

34:55

about so that patients actually see this

34:59

benefit? Because AI is one thing and

35:01

generative AI is all the buzz.

35:05

We're big believers in it at Accenture,

35:05

but that said, AI is one thing,

35:09

but really applying it in an

35:09

unbiased way is another we think.

35:15

But Jackie would love

35:15

to hear what you think.

35:17

Sure. On this issue, I'll be

35:17

brief. I mean, first and foremost,

35:22

I do think it's very much about

35:22

education and not throwing a bunch of

35:26

new buzz terms out at the general

35:26

population and assuming folks are going to

35:31

understand what this means for me and

35:31

my interaction with the healthcare

35:35

system or the social system of care.

35:39

And I do think our number

35:39

one priority here at j and

35:44

j, and we are really thinking as meaningfully

35:44

as we possibly can about what our

35:49

activation strategy would be. In

35:49

response though, is the bias question.

35:54

We have real concerns about that. And at the same time as we're trying to

35:57

achieve our really ambitious goals about

36:02

representation, and not

36:02

only clinical trials,

36:05

but to our rich conversation before,

36:05

access to our procedures and our products,

36:09

services, solutions, what have you, making sure that these tools are

36:12

additive not only in terms of

36:17

tracking to the health outcomes and

36:17

the experience of our beneficiaries or

36:20

consumers or patients, but truly making sure that

36:22

they're not used in an advance,

36:25

in an unbiased way.

36:25

So like others on the line,

36:28

and I'm curious to hear from

36:28

Nick and Fido about this,

36:31

but do we need to really stretch

36:31

our muscle and regulatory tools and

36:36

pathways there? I mean, the technology has definitely got out

36:37

ahead of regulation and you guys are the

36:42

experts there. That happens a lot. But what do we need to reign in and

36:44

do in a way that does not curb the

36:47

innovation side of this piece?

36:47

What are the policy responses?

36:53

But I think a big part of that is the

36:53

education campaign. So we're focused,

36:56

we're very focused on that. We're

36:56

very focused on the policy. England,

36:58

we're very focused on the bias,

36:58

essential for bias, to be.

37:02

Honest. Great points. Jackie,

37:02

great points. And Nick,

37:05

maybe I'll throw it to you first because

37:05

I know you've spent a fair bit of time

37:09

in technology, in data and analytics and in

37:10

general in product development.

37:14

Thinking about the space,

37:14

so any reactions, policy,

37:19

so important, getting to human

37:19

factors design that's important,

37:24

the synthetic data sets you might

37:24

be using to train your models so

37:28

important. But Nick, additional

37:28

thoughts and reactions?

37:33

I think what Jackie mentioned is something

37:33

that definitely concerns us as well.

37:40

To give a concrete example, we have colleagues who are really good

37:42

data scientists and trying to figure out

37:47

how we can up resolution

37:47

consumer based data

37:52

like the Apple watches, E C G. The challenge is we all

37:55

know P P G has a built-in

37:59

bias for black skin versus white skin.

38:04

So you have to account in your algorithms

38:04

for the data you're getting based on

38:09

the skin tones that the P P G is looking

38:09

at and how you interpret that for your

38:13

algorithms for SPO two, E c G, et cetera.

38:16

That's based on P P G as a technology.

38:21

We're really looking at how do

38:21

you make sure, for instance,

38:25

when you're building and training the

38:25

data sets that the data sets are trained

38:28

off a very diverse population

38:28

of all skin tones because

38:34

otherwise you have built in a

38:34

bias to your core algorithm,

38:39

which in and of itself then translates

38:39

downstream because someone is going to

38:42

make a decision off of what

38:42

that algorithm means, right?

38:45

A clinician's going to look at that and

38:45

say, oh, I see a declining SPO O two,

38:50

therefore maybe I need to

38:50

bring you in the hospital.

38:55

Maybe ultimately you end up on a vent,

38:55

which we know is a great therapy,

38:59

but if you're on a vent unnecessarily,

38:59

it actually is counterproductive.

39:02

So I think practically this is

39:02

something we all have to keep in

39:07

mind that we are not the patients.

39:10

Sometimes we can sympathize

39:10

with the patients,

39:13

but often we cannot empathize with the

39:13

patients because they're in a completely,

39:18

I've never had cancer. I can't empathize with what it's like

39:19

to be discharged from chemo and need to

39:23

take my temperature every two

39:23

days or every couple days,

39:27

couple times a day, right? Post chemo when you're feeling awful

39:29

and you just don't want to be in that

39:32

situation. So I think that's a really important

39:33

element is there's the standard things we

39:37

think about inclusion, skin tone, gender,

39:42

age, but there's also the non-standard

39:42

things that we often don't think about.

39:46

Like Laura, you just said, you often don't think about

39:47

women because you're a woman. So.

39:52

Yeah, it's who. I think there's the inclusion of

39:54

the context is really important

39:59

to, because we talk about social

39:59

determinants of health quite often.

40:03

I think we also need to take that same

40:03

thinking into how we deliver technology

40:07

to these patients and what is the social

40:07

determinant that is going to drive the

40:11

context and be inclusive of those

40:11

social determinants as well.

40:16

There was a recent report,

40:16

for instance, about Chicago,

40:19

your hometown in Chicago,

40:22

25% of black and Latino

40:22

children don't have access to

40:27

high-speed internet. That's a hugely important context

40:29

we need to take into account,

40:33

and that is a hugely important

40:33

element that I think we also

40:39

don't bring into healthcare policy, right?

40:41

As more and more of the way

40:41

we deliver education and

40:46

healthcare is predicated on basic what we

40:51

now should call a utility,

40:51

high-speed intranet. For instance,

40:54

if 25% of children don't

40:54

have access to that,

40:58

that's 25% of the population

40:58

we're leaving behind.

41:01

Yeah, excellent point Nick. And gosh,

41:04

I think encapsulated in

41:04

what you said there too,

41:07

there's a core point around adherence,

41:10

especially your example of a

41:10

cancer patient coming back from

41:14

chemo, where I think often in industry,

41:17

sometimes it can get a little harsh

41:17

of like, oh, bad patient or bad H C P,

41:22

and they're just not following the

41:22

regimen when the reality is there's such a

41:25

human element of I don't

41:25

feel well, I feel horrendous,

41:30

or I can't get to my doctor

41:30

because I live in a rural part of a

41:35

state and I need to wait

41:35

for my son to take me,

41:39

and he can't do it until next

41:39

Wednesday after he gets off a shift.

41:43

So there's just a lot of considerations

41:43

from a very human at Accenture,

41:48

we talk a lot about ethnographic

41:48

research and insights,

41:51

that very human element

41:51

that comes into play. Fido,

41:56

any perspective on this too? I'm

41:56

sure you've got a ton, but any ads?

42:00

I know there's been so much

42:00

rich discussion around this one.

42:02

Yeah, no, I think, again, I just

42:02

agree with what the panelists said.

42:07

I think it's, I'm just hopeful.

42:10

I think because we are having these

42:10

conversations now and we're going to

42:14

continue to have the conversation

42:14

toward minimizing bias.

42:19

So I think you can count

42:19

on industry to play a big

42:24

role, and we have to play a

42:24

big role in minimizing bias.

42:28

So I'm just hopeful that things are just

42:28

going to continue to pan off better.

42:32

Totally. Fido, it's so

42:32

encouraging to hear about Nick,

42:36

the way you're thinking about things at

42:36

Phillips, your commitments at bd, Fido,

42:40

and of course j and j, the commitments that you and your team

42:42

Jackie are helping to realize. Oliver,

42:47

I'd love to get your perspective on this

42:47

a little bit more from a technology and

42:51

business strategy standpoint as you've

42:51

worked with a number of clients in this

42:56

space. Back to that core question of

42:57

how do we think about data in

43:03

clinical data decisions,

43:03

commercialization?

43:06

How do we really make sure that

43:06

we're not biasing the data points?

43:10

Oliver, let's bring it back

43:10

to core of really technology,

43:15

ways of working op model.

43:17

Anything that you want to share with us?

43:20

Yeah, I think a couple points

43:20

that I would make, Laura,

43:25

I think the panelists made great

43:25

points around thinking more

43:29

broadly about how patients are receiving

43:29

care and where they're receiving

43:34

care. And some of that, I mean, you made the point around the

43:35

drive or the transportation to

43:40

receive chemo or to get blood drawn

43:40

or for a follow-up appointment and

43:46

how that fits into their process.

43:46

The other big reaction that I had,

43:50

I think there's kind of this framing

43:50

of this is an extra burden or something

43:54

that we need to think about. I think we've encouraged our

43:56

clients to flip that around and say,

43:58

this is an innovation opportunity. And so you're creating

44:01

ways to disrupt the system.

44:04

You're creating new solutions that

44:04

are meeting patients where they are.

44:07

You're creating different cuts with more

44:07

diverse patient populations that are

44:10

feeding into training your algorithms or feeding

44:13

into the clinical trial populations that

44:18

you're studying. And that increased

44:18

diversity and that increased

44:23

innovation. It leads to new business

44:23

opportunities and new solutions.

44:27

I always go back to some of the

44:27

examples of work that we've seen where

44:32

looking at how to do imaging in

44:32

rural India and that leads to product

44:37

innovation that can then come

44:37

back to markets like the US or

44:42

the EU to drive more

44:42

inclusive types of solutions.

44:46

And so I would just encourage

44:46

the mindset that this isn't, and

44:50

having a more diverse, more inclusive strategy in how

44:51

you're designing these solutions,

44:56

that isn't necessarily a bad thing, obviously from a growth and

44:58

innovation perspective as well.

45:02

Yeah, and encouragingly,

45:04

we had an audience member who

45:04

popped in the chat some good news

45:09

that they just saw an f d a cleared

45:09

pulse oxometer that has clinical data to

45:13

support accuracy regardless of skin

45:13

tone showing there's progress. So Nick,

45:18

to build on your point there, so I do want to make sure that

45:21

we move to audience questions.

45:24

We've gotten a couple. So the first question that

45:26

I think I will pitch over

45:31

to Jackie, given your

45:31

deep experience in policy,

45:36

the question is, do you think there's a perception issue

45:37

with the public not understanding health

45:41

equity and making an affiliation

45:41

with public health care?

45:45

How can we help separate

45:45

the ideas? Jackie?

45:49

No, that's a great question. I thought maybe you were going to lead

45:50

with the question too about prioritizing

45:55

issues in healthcare policy right

45:55

now too. It's great one too.

45:58

It's a lot of really great questions

45:58

coming in from the audience.

46:02

So thanks for your participation.

46:07

I agree with the commenter in question

46:07

or that there is a perception issue,

46:12

but I think it's something

46:12

that we struggle with across

46:17

health initiatives. We experienced this certainly

46:18

had a front row seat to it at j

46:23

and j and our experience with the

46:23

vaccine during Covid and trying to bring

46:27

helpful solutions whether or not that

46:27

was testing or vaccine during that time.

46:31

And there is a component of not only

46:31

the bully pulpit but the public in

46:36

terms of perceived notions.

46:40

But I personally think that we

46:40

need to tackle it head on. I mean,

46:45

that was a big part of our analysis at j

46:45

and j and making public statements in a

46:49

collective recognition that any

46:49

injustices, whether they're racial,

46:53

whether they're social, are direct

46:53

public health threat. I mean,

46:57

what is not new about this space

46:57

is there are generations of data

47:02

demonstrating the impact of health

47:02

outcomes and longevity on those

47:07

lived experiences folks have.

47:10

And so I think one,

47:12

it's the direct recognition

47:12

that despite the controversy,

47:15

we need to call a spade a spade and

47:15

call out injustices and that we need to

47:20

educate. You need to educate

47:20

people on the importance.

47:23

I'm very biased here in that I'm

47:23

dual degreed in public health,

47:26

but we do need to educate folks on the

47:26

importance on public health and not

47:31

only the importance in terms of

47:31

what that means for a healthy

47:35

society, but the financial benefits of

47:35

that, the improvements in your workforce.

47:40

If you own a small business that's

47:40

more people coming to work that day,

47:44

that's more beneficial

47:44

for your bottom line.

47:46

And so just bringing

47:46

more people into the pie

47:51

versus developing or promoting

47:51

any of the divisiveness.

47:56

It's a little bit of an apple pie answer,

47:58

but I truly believe that's where we

47:58

need to start and where there is only,

48:02

there's only we, right? Bring more people. That start somewhere. And apple

48:05

pie is also delicious, Jackie.

48:08

So I'll take an apple pie any day,

48:08

and I think that's a very fair answer.

48:14

I do think this question that we also

48:14

got from the audience that I'll read,

48:19

what kind of policies are coming down

48:19

the pike that could address reimbursement

48:22

issues for providers that are adopting

48:22

these technologies but are reimbursed at

48:26

a lower rate. So Jackie, I'd love to get some rapid fire thoughts

48:28

from you on this since we've got you

48:32

and then Nick and Fido and Oliver,

48:35

because the reimbursement piece is

48:35

such a really, really important one.

48:40

So Jackie, any kind rapid fire.

48:43

Right? It's also a really good response to the

48:43

first question you just asked from the

48:47

audience, which is how do you want to compel

48:47

more folks to understand and have the

48:50

empathetic passion that

48:50

you need to advance public

48:53

pay folks well or appropriately?

48:56

So there are a number of

48:56

incentives happening in this space.

49:00

I think we all need to take a look at

49:00

what's happening out of C M s and the C M

49:03

I shop. They put out

49:03

a new model this week.

49:06

This is going to sound very technical fast, but we've been supporting

49:08

something called a Z code,

49:12

which is just another code used by

49:12

providers in their associated billing

49:17

offices to identify those

49:17

patients who may have

49:22

higher healthcare needs and thus

49:22

should be an associated higher payment.

49:25

With that, of course, we could have a whole political discussion

49:26

about who does pay for these things,

49:31

but the importance of recognizing and

49:31

tracking to then tie reimbursement more

49:36

closely is critical. And I think

49:36

it also is very much tied into,

49:40

so there's the technical, but

49:40

then there is the more ambitious,

49:42

which is we need a healthcare system

49:42

that rewards good health outcomes.

49:46

If you're directly addressing social

49:46

and health services together and you're

49:50

doing that well in a

49:50

network as a provider,

49:53

you should be rewarded for that and

49:53

the better outcomes that come with it.

49:56

There is a lot of energy behind that.

50:00

My concern is how do we make

50:00

that sustainable and how

50:05

appear attractive to

50:05

policymakers so that once again,

50:10

we don't end up in this space where a

50:10

lot of these social care interventions

50:13

feel episodic versus that

50:13

structural change and pull through.

50:16

Yeah. Alright, so Z code new

50:16

models from C M Ss, C M I, Nick,

50:21

any hopeful reimbursement strands

50:21

of glimmer that you see for adopting

50:27

that are reimbursed at lower rates? I know you work a lot in the

50:28

remote patient monitoring space.

50:33

So not necessarily on technology as

50:33

we would traditionally think about it,

50:38

right? The widget, but we are seeing some really interesting

50:41

things coming down in terms of the

50:46

technology combined with the

50:46

clinical service. So for instance,

50:50

in the physician fee schedule that was

50:50

published that hopefully we'll get a

50:54

final reading on here

50:54

in the next month or so,

50:57

there was a proposal to increase

50:57

reimbursement for coaching and helping

51:01

diabetics better manage their weight,

51:04

which we know there's a direct correlation

51:04

in that cardiometabolic dynamic.

51:08

So there are things coming that

51:08

will couple technology with

51:13

clinical service to help clinicians better provide support

51:17

to patients who need that support in that

51:22

interaction. I think one of the things that we need

51:24

to think about though is a lot of the new

51:28

models that we're talking

51:28

about are predicated on primary

51:33

care, and that's a great thesis,

51:40

but there's a huge number of people who

51:40

don't have a primary care physician,

51:44

and we know primary care physicians are

51:44

becoming more and more overworked and

51:48

more and more short supply. So I think

51:48

one of the things that I see coming

51:54

over the next several years

51:54

is how can industry help

51:58

primary care, but also the connection

51:58

between primary care and specialty care,

52:03

most of which are specialty care is

52:03

largely fee for service or in very certain

52:08

circumstances, an episodic

52:08

payment, joint replacements,

52:12

but it's still, it's a fee

52:12

for a rather short window.

52:16

It's not a population kind

52:16

of inclusive to care fee.

52:20

So I think there's something that we

52:20

all need to evolve in as well is how

52:25

can we help specialists start to join

52:25

in and connect in to this primary care

52:31

driven population management, but then also how can we help patients

52:33

get connected to primary care?

52:38

And that's where I think the evolution

52:38

of the retail and the virtual primary

52:42

care setting that we see evolving,

52:42

right? C V Ss and Walgreens on one hand,

52:47

but also Oak Street and one

52:47

Medical and some of these

52:53

new delivery practices, I think are going to be a

52:54

really interesting evolution

52:58

care setting landscape that we're all

52:58

going to be playing in over the next

53:02

several years. Yeah, great. Great

53:04

points. Nick, all around.

53:08

We got another question

53:08

in the chat that Fido,

53:11

I'd love to get your perspective.

53:11

Oh, actually, you know what,

53:16

before we move to FI on

53:16

this next question, Oliver,

53:20

I'm just reminded of some of the work

53:20

that you've done in this space too.

53:23

Maybe you could just, if you'd like to add anything to

53:24

the conversation before we move to a

53:28

question for Fido. Yeah, I'll give the real quick

53:30

22nd follow on. But I agree Nick,

53:34

and I think some of the innovation in

53:34

reimbursement and policy is around setting

53:38

of care. And so you mentioned the retail

53:38

kind of model or telehealth model,

53:43

but I think some of the incentivization

53:43

of care delivered outside of the

53:46

hospital at different settings at places

53:46

that are going to be more accessible by

53:50

patients. That's been one of the big movements

53:51

that we've seen over the recent years.

53:55

So just wanted to make that point quickly. Yeah, that's a great point.

54:00

And I think just speaking of kind over

54:00

the years and how things have changed,

54:04

Fido, we got another question in the

54:04

chat around, and the question is,

54:09

as the training ground for healthcare

54:09

providers, data scientists, technologists,

54:13

and so many others that play

54:13

a role in these systems,

54:16

we'd love to hear where you'd encourage

54:16

universities to step up to address these

54:20

issues raised throughout the conversation, how can we be a better partner

54:22

with industry to make change? Fido,

54:27

what do you think? Actually, first of all,

54:29

that's a very good question.

54:34

I think mean we all know

54:34

universities play a key role in

54:38

helping develop and advance healthcare.

54:41

So I think what universities can do and

54:46

what universities should

54:46

do is actually include in

54:51

their development of solutions

54:51

and their development

54:55

of solution, they should be including health

54:56

equity early into the process,

55:00

validating some of the concepts I

55:00

think that industry might be looking

55:05

at leveraging, and once

55:05

they're validating it,

55:08

I would say leverage any kind

55:08

of public forum to share some of

55:13

the insights I think that they

55:13

would've kind of generated.

55:16

So I'd say universities play a key

55:16

role, obviously in advance healthcare,

55:21

and I would say just

55:21

continuing to push for funding

55:25

for funding toward the areas that may

55:25

better help address health equity in

55:29

general. I hope I've

55:29

answered the question.

55:33

Yeah, very well. Fido. Anyone

55:33

else want to add to Fido's points?

55:38

I think training doctors in these

55:38

new technologies is really critical,

55:44

especially because

55:44

example of stethoscopes.

55:49

Physicians have been trained

55:49

using traditional stethoscopes for

55:54

hundreds of years, and about 20 years ago we started

55:56

to introduce digital stethoscopes

56:01

and now you start to see medical schools

56:01

actually making that the standard of

56:04

the training. It's not the standard of care, it's the standard of training that new

56:06

med students coming through and are

56:11

being trained using these new tools

56:11

which offer potential higher fidelity,

56:16

additional diagnostic value. You

56:16

can start to introduce algorithms.

56:22

So I think that's a long game, right?

56:25

We're talking about training new

56:25

physicians coming through that entire

56:30

pipeline, but it's a game that's going to

56:31

change the ground level interaction.

56:36

I think the other thing is

56:36

unconscious bias in corporations.

56:39

We all get those kinds of trainings. I think introducing those kinds of

56:41

trainings into clinical practice is also

56:44

really important. You hear all the time

56:44

about physicians', unconscious bias,

56:50

discounting patients saying

56:50

something doesn't feel right.

56:53

I get what you're telling me,

56:53

but it doesn't feel right.

56:56

I think those are really important

56:56

elements that are maybe not sexy to

57:00

introduce, but will be really important in terms

57:00

of moving the needle in terms of the way

57:04

we interact with each other as humans,

57:06

which is kind of what the

57:06

whole point of healthcare is.

57:09

So get those brilliant basics, get in there with the universities

57:11

early and make the impact,

57:15

build the partnerships. Alright,

57:18

so I'm going to give Oliver

57:18

one more rapid fire question.

57:20

I think we got to quite a few

57:20

of the questions in the chat.

57:23

We really appreciate the act

57:23

of participation from everyone.

57:26

This has been such a rich

57:26

discussion, Oliver, very quickly,

57:30

we've talked a lot about this one, Nick, I know we've talked a lot about this

57:32

one too. Can we leverage pharmacy more?

57:36

We saw a lot of use in the pandemic, different disparate points of

57:39

care and locations for care.

57:43

What can we do now? Yeah,

57:45

I mean I think it's probably a good wrap

57:45

up question because it summarizes a lot

57:49

of the things that we've talked about, the payment model or reimbursement

57:51

model for pharmacies going to where the

57:55

patients are in the communities, having solutions that are going to work

57:57

into workflows within those settings.

58:01

And I mean you saw with diagnostic

58:01

testing for Covid with vaccine

58:05

administration, with health check consults

58:06

within pharmacies.

58:11

I think it's a good example of moving

58:11

it from a historical hospital setting

58:16

to a community setting and having all

58:16

of that sort of ecosystem around it and

58:19

designing in a way that's going to be a

58:19

useful and efficient product to be able

58:24

to be delivered within that

58:24

setting. So short answer, yes.

58:28

Yeah, and all of our, I love it, but I

58:28

think so often, especially in pharma,

58:32

sometimes in tech, we don't think about beyond the H

58:33

C P as care providers and nurses,

58:38

pharmacists, everyone in that whole chain is doing

58:40

so much to help patients and improve

58:45

patient care. So with

58:45

that, oh my goodness,

58:48

what a fantastic discussion. We are so

58:48

grateful that y'all joined us today.

58:53

What an amazing panel. I think I've got to rewatch this thing

58:55

just so I can download all this great

58:59

information again, it was so incredible.

58:59

We really, really appreciate your time.

59:04

We really, really

59:04

appreciate you joining us.

59:06

Any final words from the matter

59:06

crew? Oh, thank you, Olivia. Yeah,

59:11

feel free to pop on. No, I was just going to say thank you

59:12

all again. This was such a great panel.

59:16

I couldn't get off Zoom

59:16

or mute fast enough.

59:19

On Zoom. Fair enough. We've all been

59:19

there, Olivia, we've all been there.

59:22

Just thanking everybody again and

59:22

thanking the audience for joining.

59:26

And I'll turn it back over

59:26

to you, Laura, to wrap us.

59:28

Up. Alrighty, well thank

59:28

you so much Olivia.

59:31

I think all of this will be available

59:31

on matters website as well as podcast.

59:35

So if you'd like to re-listen to

59:35

hear all of the fantastic deep

59:40

perspective and experience

59:40

from our panelists,

59:44

we really encourage you to do so. And we're wishing everyone

59:45

a fantastic weekend.

59:49

And thank you for always bearing equity

59:49

in mind so we can better serve people,

59:54

not just patients. Thank you all.