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This is the BBC. This

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podcast is supported by advertising outside

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the UK.

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BBC

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sounds music radio Podcast.

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And

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this is the media show from BBC Radio 4.

0:17

Hello this week

0:19

with welcome to Don Walker's, he makes his

0:21

move from BBC breakfast, TV to

0:23

Channel 5, Drive Time news. What

0:26

made him go and does. The big pool

0:28

cost is gave up for the the ghibli will

0:30

be finding out what it's like to cover the royal family

0:33

with the bbc is johnny diamond and i

0:35

tv's chris ship and asking

0:37

is that any women role reporting for criticism

0:39

should that be lower clancy author

0:42

of running the family from is also here

0:45

but we'll start with down walcott one

0:47

of the big beasts of breakfast tv

0:49

he spent six years fronting the nation's

0:51

most popular early morning tv show

0:53

those three am alarmed must feel

0:55

like just a bad dream now because on monday

0:58

he starts his new role at channel

1:00

five done welcome to the program

1:02

i guess the obvious question is why

1:04

did you decide to make the move

1:07

what i had nothing to do with a free clock starts of

1:09

i am even i stopped doing breakfast now

1:11

for couple of weeks of i'm still waking

1:13

up occasionally that sort of the morning

1:16

classy it takes a while we saw the

1:18

body thought that i think it's just i'm

1:20

if i'm on his case he just opportunity and

1:23

i think ah channel five came

1:26

in at a chat and so the said in a nice

1:28

spot away we we want you and

1:30

dance they said we don't want you to just

1:32

do the news we like to come and a has

1:35

asked a set number of hours every every

1:37

contract to come and make tv for

1:39

us and i got crazy rolling

1:41

coming up with what that see the a is and

1:44

, you speaks a lot of people who work

1:46

in television on this program and

1:48

everybody who works in cz and probably

1:51

listens to the school know that those opportunities

1:53

don't come around very often so you

1:55

it don't matter bbc the divas he went off when you

1:57

something either i wasn't the case

1:59

of me going

2:00

ive b b saying saying this and channel five have

2:02

said this what have you got i i never did

2:04

the been really open and honest been with b b

2:06

c and whole time i been that really

2:08

and ive just i just felt the there

2:10

are opportunities a channel five that maybe i wouldn't have got

2:13

at the bbc and

2:15

i think it's also a ,

2:18

instincts i'm instincts the industry january and channel

2:20

five is that's an eighty

2:22

place to be a minute i think they make some

2:24

great programs or think there's not

2:27

many commissioning a most their commission's

2:29

recently been brilliant shows ah

2:31

and who doesn't wanna get the chance we'll atlantic the

2:33

rice works that sounds sad i am i

2:36

mean i gonna as is as that they're moving

2:38

massive moving the right direction automata think it's

2:40

a bit excited by survey with a really crazy too

2:42

yeah and come back on channel im five just you were

2:44

reported to b on just under three hundred thousand

2:46

pounds yeah for you b b c work on

2:49

assuming channel five offered you quite good deal

2:51

to what extent did money clare pounds

2:54

I can be brutally honest about that.

2:56

Money has never ever be the a motivating factor

2:58

for me at any point in my career history

3:07

on our first in broadcast journalism, and

3:10

I working a commercial radio station in Manchester on

3:12

the right now to tell be working

3:15

18 to 20

3:17

hour shift today on occasions and

3:19

six months. I got promoted to editor

3:22

that work. Exactly the same. number

3:24

of hours with two people working on the mail think my i

3:26

went up to just over eight thousand pounds so if

3:29

i was motivated by money i would have left l l

3:31

a long time ago the job site that the

3:33

i i love the job i love the have to say

3:36

i is always been a real privilege

3:39

and , think think really thankful

3:41

to get the chance i do yes i

3:44

talking about money and is nothing more

3:46

embarrassing than the salary whether

3:48

it's right or wrong being wrong the front page of page national newspaper

3:50

i guess is another reason to leave for channel five

3:52

because they don't have to publish his salary his ss

3:55

online

3:55

they do say it's a good movie head

3:57

of the i can awareness by suzanne know

4:00

you about know they have cause i'm not giving you'll

4:02

miss basis

4:04

ah yes massively those i i've

4:06

done it's of six and a half years

4:08

and i think the know

4:10

because of me but is just that sort of nights or the

4:12

industry i think that job now is

4:14

so much bigger than when i started

4:17

it i'm in now there's a huge sort

4:19

of independent outside

4:21

process to find whoever replaces no

4:23

breakfasts when i started the i think i

4:26

i turned it down a couple of times for reasons

4:28

i don't quite buy into it and a wife and

4:31

and then i was asked

4:33

to go and so sit in the studio africa

4:36

holidays which holidays did and did started the job

4:38

i think two weeks after that i think the scrutiny

4:40

on tv news now is so much

4:44

more and more and

4:46

of microscope than it ever has been before

4:48

and that job is a really big job he speaks of politicians

4:51

every day the beach the prime

4:53

minister regularly and you

4:55

sort of talking to opinion formers said opinion

4:57

makers everyday on that show in it's a it's a

4:59

really significant role i think that's great for

5:01

breakfast see they and ,

5:04

on a diet for long time than a i

5:06

love new challenge learn to dance last

5:08

year so now the hulk hogan

5:10

other guys deciding

5:11

them to the negativity to matt being strictly

5:14

which should i was a big deal

5:16

did you asked to do it and when

5:18

he saw during as a remotely

5:20

like the other

5:21

they are you how does it work and and and i'm

5:23

your private we thinking about what is it gonna

5:25

do for me in the nominee

5:28

any kind of strategy i don't mind the know the winning

5:30

yeah and i mean in terms of what it might dc

5:33

i can answer all of those but he and his an ice

5:36

i said no to strictly for times then

5:39

your guy it now and they keep asking i'm not

5:41

getting a lesson the know what about other

5:43

night as you say as i said no four times and i

5:45

said yes last year for for be two main

5:47

reasons one have been talking about

5:49

coded for three months

5:52

and i just i'm just genuinely just

5:54

felt like having a bit of fun and not

5:56

talk about death tolls and horrible stuff and

5:58

then also my kids fourteen

6:01

twelve and eleven they will sit me down and said cheated

6:04

extremists been strictly police siren

6:07

i've done society must have these folks that's

6:09

one reason why i signed up i didn't have a strategy

6:11

and i think some people do go into programs

6:13

thought that i know on over

6:15

the last week's fragments couple weeks guy you talk about

6:18

reality t v i think some

6:20

people do going to buy them sought that and i think what's

6:22

the jonathan gal this gonna find

6:24

a partner i want to become more famous

6:27

fame and fortune and froth

6:29

and all those other things have never ever united

6:31

may i just went in database on i

6:34

gone really well my partner ninety percent of the

6:36

i learned novel about her about myself

6:38

and alert out said they were foxtrot

6:41

know it was evil that

6:43

beverly a so stuff move okay let's come on

6:45

your knees show then yeah

6:47

you okay presenting the knees at five

6:49

pm on channel five any back in a day

6:52

channel five these people are old enough to remember was

6:54

the innovating cathy young presenting

6:56

sitting on the dass es can you give us

6:58

a sense of yeah whether you've

7:00

got what your innovations is ever done walk

7:02

away of doing nice

7:04

that's what would let them walk away

7:06

during news is the make

7:09

it not about you ah i fundamentally

7:11

believe that is essential the

7:13

and you never talk to students

7:16

or school kids about getting

7:18

into the industry try make a point of

7:20

saying that i've spent a lot

7:22

of my life trying to get out the way of the story

7:25

i think this is an obsession and a real interest

7:28

and i can a good interest in the way that we didn't use a

7:30

moment in this country and i think

7:32

at one end of the scale there is that he's that cold

7:34

hard facts i'm going to present

7:36

not a bit like at a robots and

7:38

on the other end is what's my program because

7:40

it got lazy massive opinions and you'll care

7:43

about them and i think in the middle is

7:46

spite of expressing his expressing his with feeling

7:49

where by you're not presenting in

7:51

a vacuum you know dousing

7:54

in your opinion because who

7:56

cares about why i think but you're

7:58

doing in a way which is in connection

8:00

with your audience and you

8:02

understand who they are and

8:05

what they're going through and what the

8:07

impact of the story you're talking about will have on

8:09

their lives and i think you can connect

8:11

with your audience in a really special way to do that

8:13

friendly and that's what i've always tried to do

8:16

both at breakfast and before that and

8:18

that's why i would try and bring to

8:20

an already well oiled program

8:23

on channel five something they do connect with average

8:25

really well and that's that's why why do

8:27

that see if there is a star news that's it

8:29

do you worry in a nice as possible

8:32

and been a say this it makes you the kind of bland

8:34

slightly and offensive choice sort of in the middle

8:36

that kind of third way of knees the appeal

8:39

of the straight white male ah

8:41

not i mean

8:43

never even considered that all i've

8:45

all i try and do is be as genuine

8:48

as i can and do

8:50

the best job i can and can and hard to try

8:52

and make great tv and

8:55

ah thanks lay those those doors

8:57

as kept opening to make even also notes

8:59

that some funny thing is natalia

9:01

there's a i enjoy i enjoyed

9:04

him i'm doing and helsing cases i was

9:06

trying make sure that the programs i work on

9:08

ah the best them

9:10

to be apart of and if you go and ask

9:13

anybody i've ever worked with and if you them

9:15

whether they think i'm bland and boring

9:17

the and not sure i agree with them

9:19

no and your style umbrellas

9:21

you just talking about opinionated and

9:23

journalism at one end of the scale that's not you

9:25

you'll start on breakfast is clearly very different

9:28

piers morgan who is he a regular going

9:30

up had had to deal on i t v's good morning

9:32

britain and it was rivalry that

9:34

neither and piers morgan said recently down

9:36

who when he was asked about your decision

9:39

to leave the baby say you

9:41

both now less funny ventures

9:43

and we as she spiked piers morgan on the eve of his

9:45

talk tv lawrence now the headlines

9:47

around that show of the since then have been about the low audience

9:50

numbers and i wondered if you have any advice

9:52

for piers morgan i'd

9:55

be very good away does the

9:57

and i've always said about him and while while he

9:59

is

10:00

gently tossed the insults rounded last few

10:02

years i've always said that good morning britain the

10:05

great job when he was there it's

10:07

been brilliant to see susanna

10:09

reads journalism in in

10:11

recent weeks i think ah another into

10:13

cb the prime minister was brilliant in

10:15

could see bit more her the and going

10:18

on a new channel a people not

10:20

wouldn't say my i wish him i wish him

10:22

all the very best that i think it's a

10:24

it's a big challenge for a and

10:26

but he's but he's good at what he does and

10:29

of don't know quite

10:31

proud of his the are and i never walked off when

10:33

kalka which had anything to be such a

10:35

guy

10:36

the everglades and science and talking

10:38

a bbc brought with them in a receipt cdc beverages

10:40

on a high we all know that and it's

10:42

hitting highs and lows and t million viewers last

10:45

year when you with s and you moving

10:47

to channel five and a slot which is in

10:49

a much much less popular at the moment

10:52

and nine and pull the a quarter that audience

10:54

so you're facing similar things i guess the piers

10:57

morgan in terms of that shift why

10:59

would you maze Because

11:02

all the other, a like a challenge on what

11:04

channel 50 the minute is a really good program

11:06

and a caiman.

11:10

I

11:11

i see cuz I had time to me for one of the best

11:13

fries and I know

11:15

that I can go there and and can pull

11:17

my full enthusiasm, and years

11:20

of experience into that program and hopefully

11:23

we'll get some more viewers. We want to make it an appointment

11:25

to watch TV, and it's

11:27

on before 6. news

11:30

is on before i see ends offerings it's

11:32

sort of on a time when when

11:34

some it's a breakfast in terms of audience so

11:37

audience think is the up those numbers yeah

11:40

i'm not yeah yeah that's a huge success

11:42

in television is if i also want

11:44

to make it the best program that we can make and i think

11:46

having met the same of emit the editor having

11:48

met and forty lies was well who will be

11:51

presented with i think we've got

11:53

older elements that make a really successful

11:55

programmer as underscored something

11:57

right and i gotta wash he because

11:59

you are

12:00

the latest of the bead he's presented talent

12:02

to be learned a b c and viewed

12:04

as i'll call a yemeni mate list on siple

12:06

andrew marr he said he wanted to get his voice

12:09

back by leaving the bbc now that

12:11

you're off the leash what is it that you really

12:13

want to say

12:15

the looking forward to more the four hours late

12:17

case if a bs i have i've

12:19

got nothing but nice things say about baby

12:21

say that one about not having i've always

12:23

thought well see a when you are see a when you

12:25

as well and when you are somewhat is bland

12:27

and boring someone you program that's what you get outside

12:30

your plan to the eagles are you

12:32

and i don't know

12:34

i don't feel like i've got like

12:37

to anything to share about i'm not going

12:39

to sort of be released the though

12:42

i think that the shackles of people think that

12:44

you on and under at the bbc don't

12:46

exist i've never been told what

12:48

not to say or what to say or what to ask

12:50

all you know don't know don't the prominence of at

12:52

all not that's never happened in my many

12:55

years of the bbc and yeah bbc

12:57

have kept me out of jail on occasions of have been chased

12:59

down a train in china by some

13:01

police officers when i was filming a documentary many

13:03

years the only thing that stopped

13:05

us me in a camera operator going

13:07

to jail for the night was all bbc

13:09

car because you see those letters and they mean

13:11

something or , the world and i

13:13

think think that the bbc

13:15

does need to change it's

13:18

change big old base and it's sometimes slow

13:20

to do things are never gonna talk about royal

13:22

coverage that knowing about it right now right

13:25

think there are there were certain things that

13:27

maybe he can do differently and improve in

13:29

a sort of constantly changing market based

13:32

still does a lot of things brainlets

13:34

and there are some wonderful people that work they're not

13:36

whether it was sport or breakfast or quizzes

13:39

or strictly of have had the privilege

13:41

of what can be some of the best in industry down

13:43

and it's not over my my bridges

13:45

are not been burned to the bbc i hope to have them again

13:47

into that will dance walker thank you donald

13:50

be on channel five at five pm weekdays

13:52

from monday that unisex for don't go wideouts

13:55

am the case i want this down the subject

13:57

of knees and with the jubilee taking center stage

13:59

for

14:00

the about will cost as specifically royal

14:02

knees and how it's covered chris ship

14:04

is the role as a tough fight tv news

14:06

johnny diamond wanted to be disease royal correspondence

14:09

and laura clancy author of running

14:11

the family some is also here nor was

14:13

also a lecturer in media and sociology

14:16

at lancaster university and johnny as

14:18

we've been hearing say much about the brilliant people are the

14:20

b b c let's come to ethos you know you've

14:22

been a washington correspondence

14:24

he been to europe correspondent in our royal

14:26

correspondence is it the same job in

14:28

terms of how you do it

14:32

the my favorite horror of it is

14:34

just about the same interests

14:37

about finding stuff out

14:39

and

14:40

reading it in context and

14:42

explaining it and doing that

14:44

in an interesting way and it has the great advantage

14:47

of phase of full of color and history

14:50

and say doing it in an interesting why

14:52

is op's easier is

14:54

, and industrial

14:56

disputes on the west bank interesting

15:00

the so much

15:02

of it is very different actually

15:04

selling anything i've done

15:06

or the b b c or it is it

15:08

is i think out of its

15:10

time largely because

15:13

it is so mediated is is

15:15

so mean

15:18

, with edward controlled by

15:22

the palace because of that

15:24

is said save monopoly

15:27

on information said know

15:30

of monopoly job that i've worked of no other

15:32

brief the that

15:34

monopoly or near monopoly and

15:36

operation so that makes it

15:38

very different actually

15:41

so , chorus just

15:43

about the same but the reality

15:45

is is reality very different than

15:48

do they need i was just into i'm sorry how

15:50

do they control it would it would you mean by that was

15:52

how does it work

15:54

are we now is partly because

15:56

of the the public private

15:59

mates or the

16:00

the war in the tension between they say

16:02

which is essentially that most

16:05

severe cities or stuff the state stuff

16:07

even the ceremonial stuff it's

16:10

colorful but it's not in itself

16:12

interesting it's actually quite dull what is

16:14

interesting audience is the personal thoughts

16:17

and is there is an implicit

16:20

feel , different degree

16:22

in royal coverage which is you so

16:25

that of ankle and huge debts

16:27

is not favorable coverage to get more damage

16:29

than he would do for any other

16:32

sort of cause out barrel or

16:34

any on the body and that's just

16:36

part of it being the royal story so

16:40

that is one degree of control the other

16:42

is in a nearly everything

16:44

they do they inform you

16:47

through their own source of that force

16:49

will quite happily same whether it's up

16:51

his act in a press officer or and social

16:54

classes and that that's private and

16:57

that's like the age difference

16:59

is the stuff we are interested in style

17:01

very easy enables say that

17:04

price private christian let us bring

17:05

and you know you kind of politics and your previous roles

17:07

you know why but see me i'm sort of twenty plus

17:10

people vying to be your souls how

17:12

close the world stories can you have again

17:16

the are you make your to the point i was a decade of

17:18

westminster i think i see also more than twenty

17:20

people is my six hundred and sixty mps

17:22

are willing to sort you plus an army of farms

17:24

best advisors who will want your ear to

17:27

benzene as it said said so you their story

17:29

the difference of pound moving from politics into roiled

17:31

is those sources are much

17:34

more limited of the information they give

17:36

you is much more limited see your job

17:38

really us bases row correspondence it's

17:40

a put those tiny bits of information together

17:42

within the wider context within your experience

17:44

of doing the job for the past however many

17:46

years and then make a decision maker

17:49

cool say what you think is happening

17:51

say what you think will happen and

17:53

or thing but says that the the main difference

17:55

of the jobs that the challenge is getting

17:57

as many different sources as you

17:59

possibly in all the different policies to

18:01

speak to you as frequently as possible illness

18:03

kind of are easier said than done

18:06

i know or let me just bring you and you do you think that's

18:08

space for criticism enroll reporting

18:10

or to your mind is it all

18:12

a bit deferential an unquestioning i

18:16

mean in my opinion as it is not enough

18:18

great kinda rough on labor i don't think that's

18:20

necessarily to outlive individual journalists i

18:22

agree with what's been said

18:24

around hides the structure their belt and something

18:27

that you've all wrote a system for example that gives access

18:29

to teacher's pet gently do

18:31

you need to apply to and we

18:33

send my limits maybe more independent janice

18:35

for example gain access to the store than

18:38

i did i didn't intervene some rough refunded

18:40

such research and and they were

18:42

telling me you know if you have a in these supposed

18:45

to be be seen on big newspapers

18:47

you're gonna get to access the store with than people

18:49

who might not be a and people in my not gonna

18:51

rob system

18:53

more do you think about that is is that the case

18:55

to film bbc another been at the big

18:58

players i'm not saying you're not a big glad that you know domains

19:00

and today get better access and also in a

19:02

where do you stand on pushing a quizzical

19:05

voice and would you put it they can voice in your

19:07

packages

19:08

i mean i wrote the story today about a

19:10

a you gov opinion poll which shows

19:12

that to support for the monarchy has declined

19:14

dramatically in the past ten years

19:16

since the queen's a a diamond jubilee

19:18

percent clean and i think probably worryingly for the

19:21

to the institution of or the s

19:25

in or

19:30

a the

19:34

or ,

19:40

the in the

19:46

the royal the

19:53

of a

19:56

in i a decide

20:00

where it is needed

20:02

, but i think a lot of the time

20:05

royal stories are generally are little bit more

20:07

upbeat sometimes are at us as want

20:09

them in want bullets and because they are

20:11

you know that they list they bus and sometimes bus and

20:13

that's quite important to get the right mix it

20:16

in the bullets and so

20:18

yes as opposed to criticism and i think that

20:20

there has to go in there and i think we have to acknowledge

20:22

that a good twenty or thirty percent of

20:24

the country wants us to have elected head

20:26

of state not have him

20:27

and nor would you say there's a difference

20:29

between individual criticism individual criticism individuals

20:32

within the rules homily and then criticism

20:35

of the instead the shin

20:37

yeah absolutely i mean i agree

20:39

i mean i think that the coverage a print and you wouldn't have

20:41

come out without joe mixon as as as

20:43

a valid point i'm fine i wouldn't twice

20:45

than that and spans and yeah criticizing the system

20:48

talking openly about even talking

20:50

openly about what republicanism i look like for

20:52

example we never really see that and

20:55

been spoken about i'm also interested

20:57

in canada value i will i made into

20:59

the game will correspondence you got

21:01

a foreign correspondent you've got the political

21:03

correspondent you got royal college of and and how

21:06

that might find out hello

21:09

either all type a type of value

21:11

and what what omitted unchanged funding is

21:13

all the fire them or that might do that in the public imagination

21:16

intent of and of what what kind of you need

21:18

has been detonated i'm a kind of museum i expect

21:20

to see

21:22

and johnny damon cannot bring you and you as the bbc

21:24

voice said you think the bbc has

21:26

a very distinct relationship

21:28

with the royals the parts

21:31

of the bbc days

21:33

the be honest bbc news is their

21:35

relationship with the royal this is

21:38

his face i think village the on audience

21:40

which is we have a have a very big audience

21:42

and that makes the bbc

21:44

a good place to pop story for

21:47

the other possibilities i shouldn't speak about

21:50

see months because i was really seen is

21:52

when i don't know then as well as i

21:54

know needs for places like bbc

21:56

events and people he made the documents

21:59

a standard very long standing relationship

22:01

with the royals it

22:04

in a gives them privileged access

22:06

privileged suppose that in that anyone he

22:09

does any kind the your

22:11

would throw out and says he broke up and get some kind

22:13

of privilege and generally give something

22:16

back and returns and does that

22:18

mean how it is

22:19

sergeant what does that mean are difficult

22:21

to put a critical voice in

22:23

then

22:24

no record of snow because it it

22:26

when the when the wrong with being a documentary

22:28

like unseen queen would say is you haven't

22:30

seen it is just gorgeous

22:33

i'm i'm under a big one yet

22:35

as as road diesel such as it's

22:37

hi maisie sfas amazing islamic state

22:39

in iso doing that and if you're doing it

22:41

with really anybody else

22:43

there will be conditions attached and yes they're

22:45

perfect his sins of with the

22:48

royal family and that's the deal they're

22:50

able to strike and with news

22:52

it is this and the with broadly say

22:55

i , most of of i'm a serial with

22:58

people like chris and organizations like

23:00

ip be nice and we don't get

23:03

to the sabres and that front of that means we

23:05

we can be as because the unelected laura

23:07

i'm not laura think you've i think you make a very

23:10

good point i think

23:12

part of the problem is

23:14

the aged and effects and of the sovereign

23:17

i think part of the problem is that

23:19

as chris says it's not the story and

23:21

it's seen as a as a the happy end

23:23

point for losses bulletins particularly

23:25

t v and , think part

23:27

of the problem is a classification of which is

23:30

if you are republican i totally

23:32

get this is your republican you see

23:34

nearly every royal story as

23:37

a political story anything where is

23:39

the council voice i say think

23:41

most will say the more like sports stories

23:43

and we don't doubt these stories about

23:46

how most people don't care about the world cup

23:48

world lots of people i care about woke up

23:51

we discover it and so fear that

23:53

severe as a status report revealed humans

23:55

about criticisms duquette as a kebab have

23:57

lost that into the and it's a good point bringing

23:59

down okay school and mean

24:01

all in one

24:02

and evolve as he met various royals

24:05

on breakfast how to

24:07

use ease the line the bbc

24:09

impacts other bull costs as walk when it comes

24:11

to during the well family

24:14

it's a brilliant she was been fasting to return

24:16

to christie johnny and said to lower on that as

24:18

well i mean i've i've made one of those documentaries

24:20

that johnny was talking about the i have spent kopitar

24:23

myth prince william on a documentary about

24:25

mental health and in i was able to talk

24:27

to him before the documentary went out

24:29

under nothing was said you can't ask

24:31

face can we spoke about his mom and how that's

24:34

affected his mental health and he was talking

24:36

with gao southgate with a

24:38

chevy on ray ways and

24:40

peter crouch and number of other supporters as well

24:42

in addition to some other individuals

24:45

who had struggled with and mental health and

24:47

also covered loves real stories

24:49

by into billy's and have met

24:51

there is members there royal family's wealth of the one thing

24:54

that i often think about

24:56

it the issue of of

24:58

balance and i'd have to listen to what johnny said

25:00

that about the were become a sport a nasa really

25:02

good point i think sometimes

25:05

ah for example my old job at bbc

25:07

breakfast we would regularly extra

25:10

cash very one death in a you do the obit

25:13

proceeded to make sure that what's that happens

25:15

or that be like prince charles of the queen

25:17

of the queen mother before she passed away or

25:19

you know and the duke of edinburgh

25:22

he is sometimes practice by sorts of procedures

25:24

and i would always say once we did those

25:26

taxes backs i felt we

25:29

go too far on the

25:32

the tone you know you have to speak incredibly slowly

25:35

and you have to be sort of more

25:37

deferential than i think you need the

25:39

did you are sometimes told to bake and

25:41

i feel you could naturally show that story is

25:44

a difficult to talk about a sad

25:46

is of national international importance without

25:49

getting too far and when the duke of edinburgh kids die

25:52

i do think that the bbc did

25:54

make a mistake in in putting

25:57

the same out on bbc one on bbc

25:59

to and better i'm afraid of his and flow that

26:01

and and and rightly so i think that's where the

26:03

balance should come in because you can't force

26:05

greece upon a nation he had reports

26:07

of a lot johnny say but you can't make

26:10

everybody feel the same way because some people don't

26:12

feel that way about the royal family i think that's important

26:14

okay and is chris ship bring you into

26:17

the end you know there was this documentary

26:19

by your colleague tom bradley with harry and meghan

26:21

an african journey showed the all wasn't

26:23

well with the sausage there's no they spoke about the mental

26:25

health struggles starches admitted she was

26:27

not okay really and that made news around the world

26:30

and i wonder whether they were consequences by tv

26:32

best them will perhaps johnny was saying earlier just

26:34

about you know they'd reflecting

26:36

that particular side of the story

26:39

i think there can be consequences when

26:41

i actually what you've reported is the truth what tom

26:43

uncovered in that documentary novice some

26:46

during the news everyday working

26:48

kind of alongside him i'm what

26:50

he uncovered was the all was not well

26:52

with the sauce exists inside the royal family

26:54

ends well what happened bullet turned out

26:56

to be very troops a couple of months later they went to canada

26:59

a few months so i'm a few weeks after that they said

27:01

they wanted outs and then you know the rest is

27:03

history in and i'll live i'll california and we

27:05

think that coming back today incidentally

27:08

of for the queen's jubilee which makes fast

27:10

a new story again because the first time they've been

27:12

in the uk in a public appearance since

27:15

appearance left so other thing that can be consequences

27:17

of what you're telling us the truth and the it

27:19

if we are reflecting as best we can the truth

27:22

which is our job as journalists and

27:24

then i'll sing we shouldn't worry about consequences

27:26

and if they're all they do come for

27:28

whatever reason than so bit because our job

27:31

is to tell the truth is this weekend

27:33

and indeed you are all doing that and will continue to

27:35

do that i'm sure particularly three this long

27:37

weekend of deeply coverage and

27:39

thank you so much see will i'm afraid

27:41

that is all we actually have time for

27:43

i'm i'm sure people will be looking for to the

27:45

cufflinks and ah and it's

27:48

coming up or down walker good luck on channel

27:50

five ah chris ship rule

27:52

editor of the of for ita vini thanks

27:54

for coming on the programs tony diamond bbc

27:57

royal correspondence law accountancy

28:00

and media and sociology at lancaster

28:02

university the media show will be back at

28:04

the same time next week but for now thank

28:06

you so much for listening goodbye