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1:44

Bbc Sounds Music Radio

1:47

podcasts, Hi. I'm

1:49

Katie Razzle and this is the media show

1:51

from Bbc Radio Four. She's.

1:54

One of the most powerful women in Hollywood

1:56

now at the helm of one of the

1:58

movie industry's biggest players. won't. Brothers Motion

2:00

Picture Group, the 101-year-old studio that

2:03

first brought us the talkies, ushering

2:05

out the silent movie era with

2:07

its jazz singer, and the

2:09

studio behind beloved classics from Casablanca

2:11

to Batman. But in recent

2:14

years, Warner's faced challenges, not just

2:16

problems caused by Covid and strikes

2:18

by actors and writers, but others

2:20

of its own making, not least

2:22

a falling out with director Christopher

2:24

Nolan, who took his award-winning Oppenheimer

2:27

to Universal instead. The

2:29

company is also now riding high

2:31

with Barbie, the biggest-grossing film in

2:33

the company's history. Pam Abde, thanks

2:35

for having me on the lot. Hello. Just

2:39

to talk about your career for a little

2:41

bit first, you started as an intern and

2:43

then receptionist at Jersey Films, the production company

2:45

that made Pulp Fiction, and you ended up,

2:47

you know, you went on to be assistant

2:50

to the co-founder and actor and director Danny

2:52

DeVito. What was that like

2:54

and what were your first impressions of

2:56

the movie business back then? Well, the

2:58

movie business back then was pretty exciting.

3:01

It was 1995 when

3:03

I moved here and I went to

3:06

Emerson College and they had this wonderful

3:08

program, this internship program, so that's how

3:10

I obtained the internship through them. And

3:14

it was fantastic. It was exciting. I mean,

3:16

like driving onto the, they were

3:18

at the time on the Sony lot. So driving

3:20

on the Sony lot, which is the old MGM

3:23

lot, like feeling the history of film and being

3:25

like, you know, for me being this

3:27

kid from New Jersey, I couldn't even

3:29

believe this was happening. And it was so

3:31

cool because it was Jersey Films too. And

3:33

I knew, I hadn't met Danny right away

3:35

as an intern. He was off making a

3:38

film, but he would call the office every

3:40

day and I would answer the phone. And

3:42

I think I had a pretty heavy accent

3:44

back then, like Jersey accent. It'll slip

3:46

in. You'll catch it a couple times here.

3:49

But he would call and we would talk

3:51

and he would ask me questions. And

3:53

that's how we formed a relationship. And he was

3:55

filming the movie Matilda at the time, which he

3:58

was directing. And it was the final day. of

4:00

shooting and he ended up asking

4:03

his assistant to no longer be his assistant and he's

4:05

like I'll take the kid at the front desk you

4:07

know with the accent and that's how I got my

4:09

in that's how I started working for him and

4:12

it was thrilling it was terrifying

4:14

it was everything I

4:17

could imagine and honestly it was like going

4:19

to the best film school in the

4:21

world because you really I really learned

4:23

how to make movies nuts and bolts

4:25

make movies from the ground up working

4:28

at that company and it was a

4:30

lucky break that led you to incredible

4:32

places yes it was it was a

4:34

it was an incredible opportunity and

4:36

it started out just as being

4:39

an in office assistant and you know

4:41

I worked really really hard and tried

4:43

to figure out the business tried to

4:45

figure out how to be

4:47

an assistant which is challenging you know

4:49

you don't there's no like guidebook to say here's how

4:51

to be a good assistant and a

4:54

lot of its instincts and a lot of it

4:56

is follow-through and you know I just ended up

4:58

working more and more hours and then going into

5:00

you know going on to the put sex with

5:02

him going into the sound mix with him and

5:05

then finally started being able to travel around

5:07

and work you know I drove I drove

5:09

him every day to work and

5:11

just became his assistant there and really learned

5:13

how to make films and worked on many

5:15

different films with him not only at the

5:17

production company at the time but him as

5:19

just an actor which allowed me to when

5:21

he was off studying lines I would go

5:23

sneak around and run around to the AD

5:25

department or I'd run around to the line

5:27

producer or the camera department and I'd sit

5:30

there and just like try to absorb every

5:32

single thing I could and understand how each

5:34

department worked and what they needed to do

5:36

in a day and I really learned the

5:38

most I learned everything there I really did

5:40

and you spent of course now

5:42

decades several decades in the business at

5:44

Paramount Pictures and MGM before Warner Brothers

5:46

when I was struck by something struck

5:49

by something I heard or read about

5:51

Casablanca but back in 1942 when that

5:53

movie was being made here it was

5:56

one of 50 films being made on this lot

5:58

at that time and nobody was there. really thought it

6:00

was particularly special. And then

6:02

of course it became this incredible hit that

6:05

sustained over all these decades. Yeah.

6:08

Is that what movie making is about? I mean, can you ever,

6:10

do you ever know when a movie is going to be a

6:12

bit hit? I don't

6:14

think there's a like a set thing

6:16

knowing what's gonna work and what's not

6:18

gonna work. I think for myself I

6:20

always go at it with the best

6:22

hopes and the best intentions of finding

6:24

the best filmmaker, finding a great story

6:26

that I think the audience wants to

6:28

see and then trying to make it

6:30

the best you can be.

6:33

You know, it's really hard. You

6:35

know, the first thing, it's always funny to me, I always used

6:37

to say this when I was a producer, is like the best

6:39

day and the worst day of your

6:42

career, you know, your moment in making a film is

6:44

the day the director signs on. Because you can sit

6:46

in a room as a producer and develop the script

6:48

and work with the writer and come up with the

6:51

wonderful, most wonderful story and you're there and then all

6:53

of a sudden you get your dream director and they

6:55

come on and they're like, okay, this

6:57

is what it's gonna be and it's the best

6:59

day and the worst day because you have to

7:01

put to rest what your own vision of it

7:03

was and then go into the hands of the director.

7:05

For me, that's one of the greatest moments

7:08

in time is when you get to collaborate with a

7:10

great storyteller and a great

7:12

filmmaker. So, you know, you don't,

7:15

I don't know, there's no, there's movies that

7:17

I thought that I said, oh, this is gonna be the

7:19

one and it wasn't. It's like,

7:22

well, 47 Ronin

7:24

was one of them. You know, it

7:26

had a great script and it was

7:28

super ambitious and it just

7:30

didn't pan out to be what we wanted to

7:32

be. It was, it's

7:35

not what audiences wanted to see, you know,

7:37

and that's okay and that happens and you're

7:39

not gonna pick the right ones all the

7:41

time and then there's a little, you know,

7:43

conversely, there's a little movie that I made

7:45

that changed my career which was called Garden

7:48

State and, you know,

7:50

I read that script twice

7:52

in one night and it spoke to me

7:54

because I was from New Jersey

7:56

and I was a kid who left the

7:58

comforts of home and moved out well. to

8:00

try and chase my dreams, and that's what the character

8:02

was. So I related to it, but I didn't know that

8:04

anyone else was gonna want to see it. And,

8:07

you know, Zach was a first-time

8:09

director. He had been on a

8:11

show for one season on Scrubs,

8:13

and everyone in town passed

8:15

on us, every single person. We went

8:17

to so many companies, and

8:20

they were like, no, he's a first-time director.

8:22

How's he gonna do it? And frankly, you

8:25

know, I had a budget at the time

8:27

of $4 million, and I met this individual

8:29

who said he would finance the film, and

8:32

he said, I'll co-fi it, so he was gonna give

8:34

us half the budget. And we went to

8:36

one studio, and they said, we'll give you the other half

8:38

of the budget, but the deal they were making with us

8:40

was pretty subpar. It wasn't good,

8:42

and we would never see anything. We didn't even know

8:44

if anybody would ever see the movie after that. And

8:47

to Gary Gilbert's credit, he said, if you cut the

8:49

budget in half, I'll finance the whole thing. And I

8:51

did. And I cut the budget down to two and

8:53

a half. I moved into my parents' house in New

8:55

Jersey, because we had no money for me to live.

8:58

And we went and made this

9:00

movie. And for Zach and myself and Natalie

9:03

Portman and Peter Sarsgaard, I mean, we just, we were all

9:05

young, you know, and we didn't know what we were doing.

9:07

And it was magical. It was

9:09

truly one of the most magical experiences

9:11

ever. I used everyone I knew from

9:13

growing up for favors, for locations. My

9:16

mom would cook and bring food for

9:18

craft service. It was just one of those special

9:20

things, but I had no idea if anybody was gonna

9:22

see the movie. So when it sold

9:24

at Sundance in a bidding war, it was super

9:26

gratifying. A bet, yeah. And are there any rules?

9:28

Are there any rules that you could tell budding

9:30

filmmakers or, you know, are there any rules that

9:32

you live by in terms of, I'm gonna do

9:34

this with a movie or this is the kind

9:36

of movie I get, or this movie

9:38

is the kind of movie that is gonna do well? I

9:42

think now more than ever, because

9:44

there is such an expansion of

9:46

where people are receiving and getting

9:49

their content, I think for us

9:51

who believes wholeheartedly

9:54

into the theatrical experience, and when you're putting movies

9:56

out in the theater and you're engaging the audience

9:58

to say, go buy a... ticket, drive out

10:00

of your house, get a babysitter, go see

10:03

this movie. I think you have to have

10:05

intention and I think you have to know

10:07

who the audience is you're going for. And

10:10

if you're a movie for not at least one

10:12

audience, you're a movie for no one. So

10:15

the whole goal is always who

10:18

is this movie going to speak to, who

10:20

are you trying to engage, how can we expand

10:22

that audience? And that's the exciting

10:24

part. You know, for me it always starts

10:26

with the script. Filmmaking is about

10:28

what's on the page, the story and

10:31

the filmmaker. For me it's always about

10:33

what is that filmmaker's vision, what is

10:35

their passion, what is the story they're

10:37

going to tell. That I live

10:39

and die by. I really do. I

10:41

think for budding filmmakers it's always

10:43

about what is

10:45

the story you want to say, who are you

10:47

communicating to and how are you clearly telling

10:50

that story. Well let's talk about

10:52

Barbie. That is a big Warner Brothers hit right

10:54

now. The biggest movie of last year, 1.4 billion

10:57

dollars and counting. Were you surprised

11:00

by that or did you feel it in your bones that

11:02

it was going to work? You

11:04

started to feel it in your bones that was going

11:06

to work but you knew because Greta and

11:09

Noah's script was so special and

11:12

we were privileged when we came in, they had been

11:15

in the middle of shooting so we got to be

11:17

here for halfway through the shoot and

11:19

I went to visit the set the first time

11:21

and I saw just

11:23

this magic and Greta's command of the story

11:25

as a filmmaker and I think she is

11:27

truly one of the most, she is a

11:29

visionary and she is one of the best

11:32

filmmakers working today. I mean for me it

11:34

was like just

11:36

watching her work with the actors and tell

11:38

the story and design and every single

11:40

detail was so special. You knew that

11:42

at the center of it there is

11:44

someone with command and control and vision

11:46

of the storytelling process and that is

11:48

her. And at the time did you

11:50

see it as a feminist movie? Did

11:52

you think it was tapping into the

11:54

zeitgeist? I thought it was a movie

11:56

that had feminist principles to it and

11:59

a movie that... talked about what it

12:01

is to be a woman, but the

12:03

reason why I think the movie connects is because the movie is

12:05

about what it is to be human. And

12:08

what it is to be connecting,

12:10

and what it is to feel, and what it

12:12

is to see people. And I think

12:14

what's so special about Barbie is that it

12:16

speaks to everybody around the world. I

12:18

mean, when we had our first test screening, you

12:21

felt that energy in the audience, you know, and

12:23

we were going through our process

12:25

of posts. And every time we

12:28

dropped a piece of content, or a

12:30

trailer, or a teaser, or an image,

12:32

you just felt that energy around it.

12:34

And I think, you know, what's

12:36

so special, I remember opening weekend, I

12:38

went to the theater on Sunday morning

12:40

because my daughter wanted to see it

12:42

again for the fifth time. And

12:44

she asked my husband to come with us because

12:47

he wasn't able to come to the premiere. She

12:49

was my date for the premiere. She's always my date for everything. But

12:52

we were sitting there, and the lights went

12:54

down, and the music comes up,

12:56

and it's that first image of Barbie, you know,

12:58

of Margot when she's super high,

13:01

tall Barbie. And I saw her settle in, and

13:03

this grin on her face, and I looked at

13:05

my husband, I go, oh, this is

13:07

her Star Wars. I understand. This is E.T.

13:09

for her. This is what it felt like when

13:11

I was her age and went to the theater,

13:13

and the lights went down, and something that I

13:15

felt was made and speaking to me spoke to

13:17

her. That was

13:19

magical. And despite it being,

13:22

you know, clearly a huge commercial hit,

13:24

and the most talked about movie of

13:26

last year, why the snubs? You know,

13:29

no BAFTA Awards. Margot Robbie,

13:31

Greta Gerwig not nominated at the

13:33

Oscars. How did that feel? Well,

13:36

I mean, listen, we're super grateful

13:38

for all the recognition that

13:40

the movie has received, and we're super

13:42

grateful for the support, and we're really

13:45

grateful that it ignited audiences around the

13:47

world, and it's made $1.4 billion

13:50

and has smashed so many

13:52

records. Just, you know,

13:54

Greta's records, box office records, Warner Brothers

13:56

history records. So we're super grateful for

13:58

all of that. Yeah, of

14:01

course it does, you know, of course

14:03

I want to see all

14:05

of them get recognized. They deserve it, you know,

14:07

and I think, listen, I think

14:10

the industry has, we're making a lot

14:12

of strides. We have a long way to go.

14:14

Do you think the Academy voters are sexist? I

14:18

don't want to say that they are sexist. I want

14:20

to say that I wish that

14:22

there was a way

14:24

to make sure that everyone saw every single

14:26

movie that was out there

14:28

and I don't know that that process has sort

14:31

of found its way. Well

14:33

you and your co-chair Michael DeLuca, you took over

14:36

the studio nearly two years ago. Your

14:38

appointment came after Warner Brothers, you know, appeared

14:40

to have lost its way, you know, it

14:42

had spent, you know, perhaps 90 million dollars

14:45

on Batgirl and then Axed It, it lost

14:47

Christopher Nolan, who'd made movies for the studio,

14:49

you know, with the studio for decades, most

14:51

of his career. Steven Spielberg had made his

14:53

last two movies at other studios. Your

14:56

co-chair Michael DeLuca said your vision from

14:58

day one has been to rebuild this

15:01

iconic studio to the heights of its

15:03

glory days. What wrong do you think?

15:07

I think it's challenging, you

15:09

know, I think it's a challenging business,

15:12

it's an ever moving marketplace and I

15:14

can't speak to what happened really here

15:16

before because I wasn't here so I

15:18

can't really answer what went wrong. You

15:21

were looking in from outside. I'm looking in

15:23

from outside, you know, and it's

15:25

hard to judge other people's houses unless you're

15:27

inside that house. So I think

15:29

that from the very first meeting that

15:32

David Zaslov had with us, we

15:34

sat down with David and Mike and I talked

15:36

about our filmmaker approach, how an

15:39

eclectic slate and what we believe

15:41

in and David was so

15:43

supportive and on board from the

15:45

beginning and what David said to us, I want

15:47

to bring the glory back to Warner Brothers. I

15:49

want to bring the best and brightest storytellers here.

15:52

We have the best IP in the world. We

15:54

have so many different businesses that we can, you

15:57

know, have storytellers tell any kind of

15:59

story they want to tell. whether it's

16:01

at HBO, whether it's at CNN, whether

16:03

it's on the Discovery networks, on Warner

16:06

Studios with Warner Television. It's an incredible

16:08

group of creative leadership here.

16:11

And David, he said get the

16:13

best talent, I want them here. And one of them was

16:15

Tom Cruise. We said

16:18

Tom had made amazing films at Warner Brothers and

16:20

he's been working at Paramount for a long time and

16:22

we wanted to figure out a way how do we

16:24

do that? And we did. And how did

16:26

you do it? How do you woo someone like Tim Cruise?

16:28

What do you do? Is

16:30

it a lot of phone calls? Is it meetings? Is it lunches? What

16:33

is it? It's meetings. It's really thoughtful

16:35

and intentional discussions about where we see

16:37

the business and where we see the

16:39

audience and what kind of stories that

16:41

a global audience want to see. And

16:44

that's what Tom cares about. I mean,

16:46

he is an incredible human being, an

16:48

incredible storyteller and producer. And

16:51

I think it's just,

16:53

it's the lucky timing of everything

16:55

where we as a studio are

16:57

leaning into the theatrical experience. We

17:00

believe in theatrical. We believe in putting

17:02

movies around the world everywhere

17:05

and then making sure they're showing

17:07

around the world everywhere and then showing up

17:10

on HBO later and making sure that we're

17:12

maximizing all these stories in every single window

17:14

possible. And I think we just are like-minded

17:16

with Tom in that way. So what's he

17:18

gonna make with you? I mean, we know

17:20

he's going into space with the universe potentially.

17:23

So I'm missing an impossible elsewhere. What's he

17:25

gonna do with you? Well, the first film

17:27

is with Alejandro Gonzalez-Enri too, I'm

17:30

so excited about it. I've

17:33

had the privilege of working with Alejandro three

17:35

times before. So for me, this is like

17:38

a dream come true. One of my favorite actors

17:40

of all time and my favorite directors of all

17:42

time collaborating on a story. And there's more to

17:44

come. We have a few things that I'm not

17:46

ready to talk about yet. Can you tell us

17:48

anything about that movie they're making? No.

17:51

No. But it's not gonna be set

17:53

in space. It is not set in space, I will tell you

17:55

that. And I think it's a movie that will, deserves

17:59

to be seen on the... biggest screens possible all around

18:01

the world. Will Tom Cruise be on a

18:03

motorbike in an aeroplane, showing

18:05

off his muscles somewhere? I'm

18:08

not going to find this out, am I? No,

18:10

not today. Okay, fair enough. Fair enough. But

18:13

it's exciting. Okay, great, sounds brilliant. You were

18:15

talking earlier about your boss, David Zaslav. He

18:18

said recently, the film side of the business

18:20

had been underperforming. Lots of people read that

18:22

to me in the colour purple, which had

18:24

reportedly lost $40 million. Aquaman

18:26

2 didn't do the business that Warner

18:28

had hoped for. The

18:31

last time Warner Brothers won Best Picture at the

18:33

Academy Awards was more than 10 years ago with

18:35

Argo in 2013. What

18:37

does that say about the studio? I

18:40

mean, what does that say about the Academy

18:42

Awards, really? Because they've made some wonderful movies

18:45

and they've had multiple nominations over the years,

18:47

you know, in that decade. So I

18:49

think that, I think what it

18:51

says about the studio is that you try,

18:53

like I said earlier, you try with the

18:56

best intention to make the best movies possible

18:58

that are gonna, and then also market them

19:00

the best way you can and then get

19:02

them out to the audience and on the

19:04

best date that you can. I think, you

19:06

know, I think The Colour Purple is a

19:08

beautiful film and I wish it had found

19:11

a more broadened audience, but it found its

19:13

audience and now it can be seen where

19:15

the audience wants to see it. It's

19:17

now on max and it's doing really well

19:20

on max and, you know, that

19:22

part's great. I think with Aquaman, you

19:25

know, I think having it at the end of

19:27

the year was a great time to release that

19:29

film alongside our walker. I think the fact that

19:32

we kept all three movies in the year at

19:34

the end of the year for exhibition was

19:36

a very bold and intentional decision

19:39

that we made and we

19:41

felt that that was the best time to release all

19:43

three of those films. Okay, and you

19:45

have a correct record for winning Oscars.

19:48

Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant. What's

19:51

your recipe for Oscar glory? Directors.

19:54

Always the director. The US director. So that's

19:56

what your USP here is at Warner

19:59

to take them back into it. And even on any

20:01

kind of movie, I think it's important. I

20:03

think you should have the best director directing comedy, the

20:05

best director directing sci-fi, the best director. I mean, I

20:08

think it's all about you're in

20:10

the hands of that storyteller and they

20:12

are the ones that are capturing the

20:14

images. They are the ones getting

20:16

the performances. They are the ones creating

20:19

the narrative and the story alongside

20:21

the writers. But it's really in

20:23

the hands of the filmmakers. So

20:25

I think the recipe is filmmakers.

20:27

And of course, one of those key filmmakers, Greta Gerwig, are we

20:30

going to get a Barbie too? I

20:32

mean, we'd love to. Can

20:34

you see what the plot would be? I was trying to

20:36

work it out. Barbie works out in the real world that the

20:38

rat ways isn't for her and tries to go back to

20:40

Barbie land. I don't know what it would be. I

20:43

think there's a lot of people speculating about what it

20:45

can be. Are you talking to Greta about Barbie too?

20:47

Yeah, we're always talking about it. I think right now

20:49

we're just so happy this

20:51

week to be celebrating Barbie success

20:53

and Barbie at the Oscars this weekend. You

20:56

brought back the old Warner tradition and

20:58

this involves Margaret. I'm going to follow the

21:00

Barbie tradition. The Barbie tradition, right now and

21:02

exactly, of giving big talent that you're working

21:05

with the keys to the lot. I mean,

21:07

famously co-founder Jack Warner did it with Marilyn

21:09

Monroe. You recently gave Barbie

21:11

producer and star Margot Robbie a key. That's

21:13

because you've done a deal with her company,

21:15

which is called Lucky Chap. Just explain about

21:18

the key and how did you

21:20

seal the deal with Margot Robbie? Well, it was so

21:22

thrilling. I've known Margot a long time and then just

21:24

had the privilege of working with her on Barbie. She

21:28

and her partners, Tom Ackerly and

21:30

Josie McNamara are just amazing producers.

21:32

I think they are

21:34

just wonderful at development. They're wonderful about

21:36

the nuts and bolts of producing and

21:39

they're great about finding those new voices,

21:41

whether it was Emerald Fennell that they

21:43

did with Salburn and with Promising Young

21:45

Women and luring

21:48

Greta Gerwig to do Barbie. I just think

21:50

they're tremendous producers. During the

21:52

process of making the film of Barbie, we

21:54

were talking with Greta and her partners about

21:57

making Warner Brothers their home. They are... they

22:00

are exactly the types of filmmakers

22:02

that we want to be here

22:04

at the studio. We feel like their

22:06

collision of art and commerce is

22:08

just magical and we think it is,

22:11

they're so smart and we asked

22:13

them to join us here and we're so lucky that they said

22:15

yes. And what does the key mean? What is it? Well,

22:18

it's a symbolism that I think Jack

22:20

Warner gave several years ago when new

22:23

talent would sign, that was back in

22:25

the old studio system. So when new

22:27

talent would sign deals and become players

22:29

at the specific studio, he

22:31

would give them a key, welcoming them

22:33

to Warner Brothers. So Mike had seen

22:35

it, he had read a story about

22:37

it and he found a couple of

22:40

the old keys on eBay actually and

22:42

we bought them and we're now gonna

22:44

make it a tradition. So it's Margaux's

22:46

and eBay key. Margaux's is

22:48

actually Marilyn Monroe's key. Wow.

22:51

Yes. Well that's brilliant because I've seen

22:54

that beautiful footage of her getting her key. It

22:56

is beautiful, right? Fantastic. Yeah, super exciting. You

22:58

can buy that on eBay, Marilyn Monroe's key. Who put

23:00

that up for sale? I don't know. I don't know.

23:03

I don't know how, you know, there's so many

23:06

collectors in the world for all of this stuff,

23:08

so you never know. Okay, well let's talk about

23:10

Christopher Nolan, the man of the moment. He spent

23:12

most of his career at Warner, then he walked

23:14

away in 2020 before your time. After

23:17

the studio decided to premiere a year's worth

23:19

of films on its streaming service, he's

23:22

since praised you for what you're doing, he says

23:24

it's encouraging. Do you want Christopher Nolan

23:26

back at Warner Brothers? Of course. So

23:29

what are you doing to try and persuade him back? It's

23:31

up to Christopher Nolan and Emma. I

23:33

think they are tremendous artists and filmmakers,

23:36

and we've had a wonderful dialogue with

23:38

them since we came to the

23:40

studio. I'm so excited for him and Emma with

23:42

Oppenheimer. I think it's a brilliant film. What

23:45

does the success of it say to you? It's interesting, isn't it?

23:47

Because, you know, in a way people

23:49

are talking about how it's reshaping what constitutes blockbuster

23:51

entertainment. And film about a theoretical physicist on paper

23:53

doesn't necessarily make you think it's gonna do as

23:55

well as it did. I think the audience knows

23:57

it's a Christopher Nolan film. I

24:00

think they have a relationship with his storytelling

24:02

and they know that he's going to tell

24:04

a wonderful story and a

24:06

complex story and I think they show

24:08

up when they feel

24:10

like it's going to feel like

24:12

an event. And I think Oppenheimer absolutely felt

24:15

like an event. And clearly

24:17

we all know why he left. He left at

24:19

the time because of this anger that lots of

24:21

directors felt around this business with the theatrical window.

24:23

And they make the films for the big screen.

24:25

What he told me was, when

24:28

I interviewed Chris Nolan, he told me the amount of time

24:30

between a film cinema release and it being

24:32

put on a streamer should absolutely be longer.

24:34

He said, it's not good for the health

24:36

of cinemas otherwise. Do you agree with him?

24:39

I do. I do think

24:41

that not every movie needs

24:43

to stay in the cinema perhaps as

24:45

long. I don't think

24:47

it's like one size fits all. I

24:49

definitely don't feel that. But I do

24:51

feel like absolutely a movie, seen in

24:53

a theater, creating that

24:56

cultural experience, the communal experience,

24:58

I just think it is,

25:01

you cannot experience that kind of

25:03

storytelling anywhere else. You're

25:05

in a room, it's dark, you're with an audience,

25:07

you're laughing, you're crying, you're getting scared together,

25:10

you're experiencing something together. You then leave, you

25:12

go have a coffee or a dinner and

25:15

you talk about that film and you talk about how it

25:17

made you feel. And I just think

25:19

it shows up in all the other downstream windows with

25:21

a different kind of feeling. So did you think Warren

25:23

got that wrong when it came to Chris and then?

25:25

I think, I can't judge what they were doing. I

25:28

think they were trying to adapt to whatever

25:30

was going on. We were in the

25:32

middle of a global pandemic. I can

25:35

only speak to- Because I lost that biggest star. Yes. And

25:38

that's super unfortunate, but I think that

25:42

I can only speak to what my experience

25:44

was being president

25:46

of a studio during a global pandemic

25:48

that didn't have a streaming service as

25:50

a backstop. We, Mike and

25:53

I were at MGM at the time and as

25:55

you know, very, you know, it was very

25:57

out there. We moved to James Bond four

25:59

times. And that was a

26:01

considered and very intentional effort by

26:05

all of our leadership at, and

26:09

in concert with Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson.

26:12

That's what we did. And that's what we

26:14

chose to do. But I think each company at

26:16

the time was doing what they thought was

26:18

what they had to do. And you know, it's hard

26:20

to speak to or judge what someone else did. And

26:22

right now you've got this, you know, your first major

26:25

hit of 2024, June part two. Huge

26:27

opening weekend in America. And

26:30

you know, June part one, I think, was released

26:32

on streaming on the same day as in cinema.

26:35

Has Warner learned its lesson? When will June two

26:37

start being streamed? We

26:40

don't set the window. You know, we don't

26:42

talk about that from the beginning. We open

26:44

the movies and we let them play and

26:46

we see what's best. We iterate

26:48

all the time. So do you expect it to spend quite

26:50

a lot of time in cinema before it goes on the

26:52

skin? I think it's gonna be in cinemas for a while,

26:55

you know. I think it's gonna play in cinemas for a

26:57

while. And then, you know, what we did at MGM at

26:59

the time, and I think we do here as well, is

27:01

there's the P VOD stop afterwards where, you know, the movie

27:03

is available and then it shows up on S VOD. So

27:06

I think my job

27:08

is to maximize each movie in

27:11

the best way possible. Our job as distributors

27:13

and marketers is to make sure that every

27:16

time a movie shows up in its different

27:18

window, that it finds a new audience and,

27:20

you know, try to monetize the film the

27:22

best we can for everyone. But

27:24

that was a really interesting event last night about AI,

27:27

actually in the commercial advertising

27:29

world last night. But clearly

27:32

AI has been something, you know, we heard about it in

27:34

the strike, you know, something that people are worried about in

27:37

the movie business. What's

27:40

your feeling about AI and how it

27:42

might iterate in this movie business? I

27:45

think if AI can help us

27:47

create better efficiencies in the post-production

27:49

process and the production process, I'm

27:51

very excited about that. And that's

27:53

not replacing humans. That is just

27:56

in the way we do visual effects, the

27:58

way we, you know, create the

28:01

pipeline and delivery and all of that kind of

28:03

stuff. I think I'm excited by

28:05

it and I'm open to it. I wanna

28:07

understand it better. I think we all need

28:09

to understand it better. Do I think that

28:11

AI is ever gonna be able to feel

28:13

emotional or create

28:16

love or feel love? No,

28:18

maybe when I'm long gone, but

28:22

I don't see that in the foreseeable future.

28:24

I think what AI is doing in so

28:26

many other industries medicine and things like that

28:28

that I read about, I think it's super

28:30

exciting what's going on and we'll see how

28:32

it works for the film business. I guess,

28:35

because if AI does come for entry-level jobs,

28:37

then that would cut out the kind of

28:39

way that you got into the business. Yeah,

28:41

but I don't know. Call

28:44

me crazy. I can't see like, I think

28:46

back of me starting like driving to my

28:48

work and sitting there and answering the phone

28:50

and getting coffee for people.

28:52

I mean, I guess, but I can't imagine

28:54

it anytime soon. And we were

28:56

talking earlier about, you've moved

28:59

back, you've moved Tom Cruise. Obviously everybody

29:01

would love to have Christopher Nolan in

29:03

their studio. How does that work?

29:07

Are there other people? I was reading, for

29:09

example, about J.K. Rowling, who has one of, as

29:11

I understand it, one of the kind of A plus

29:14

talents that Warner Brothers have

29:17

made some incredible hit movies of the

29:19

Harry Potter and then Fantastic Beasts. Yes,

29:22

now there's a TV series in development

29:24

or happening, but clearly that relationship has

29:26

been tested over recent

29:28

years. Are you trying to repair ties

29:30

with J.K. Rowling? Yeah, I

29:33

think we're in a really good place with J.K.

29:35

Rowling. I think that David went over there right

29:37

when he got here and sat down and talked

29:40

to her and really listened to

29:42

her and heard what worked before, what

29:44

didn't work before. And I think he was

29:46

really thoughtful about it all. And now my

29:48

colleagues, Casey Boyes and Channing Dungy are working

29:50

on the series with her. And I think

29:52

it's super exciting. Do you think there'll ever

29:54

be another Harry Potter film? Or is

29:56

that it? The book's a don. No, I don't think, I would

29:59

never say it. done. They're

30:01

making the books for a

30:03

series. So I think we'll see. There's

30:05

going to be a whole new generation of fans. Super

30:08

exciting. And I know, David, as you said,

30:10

went to see her. Did it feel

30:13

like a relationship that needed mending? I

30:16

think should one of you be more loyal

30:18

to her, I suppose, through this period? I

30:20

think they are. And I think

30:23

that all relationships, especially

30:25

when you're new people coming into a

30:27

company, you have to listen and you

30:30

have to hear what felt

30:32

good to people and what didn't feel good to people.

30:34

And you have to understand

30:36

and try and forge your own

30:39

relationship. It's kind of like

30:41

that thing when you're a kid. You

30:43

don't just deserve respect because you have the

30:45

seat. You have to earn respect from people

30:47

and artists. And I think trust,

30:50

you have to earn trust from people. It's just

30:52

like being a little kid. When you go to

30:54

school and your teacher just expected you to trust

30:56

them or respect them. You have

30:58

to earn kids trust. You have to earn teacher's

31:00

trust. You have to earn your parents' trust. I think it's

31:03

about being thoughtful and also

31:05

being transparent. I think the

31:08

more transparent that people are

31:10

in this situation, in these

31:12

businesses, in the arts, in making

31:14

movies, the better. And I think it just

31:17

provides a better, healthy atmosphere to create.

31:20

I suppose it's difficult in the world that we

31:22

live in now where she has taken quite a

31:24

political stance or she has political views or views

31:26

that she believes are right.

31:28

And then you probably have a whole load of staff and

31:30

other people and the people who work on the Harry Potter

31:32

films who were offended by what she said. And you've got

31:34

to manage that. Yeah. I mean, I

31:38

think you always have to

31:40

manage things. It's just the world we live in

31:42

today. And I think she is an

31:45

amazing storyteller. I think her books

31:47

have touched so many generations

31:49

I saw what they did to my own

31:51

child and that reading between parent and child.

31:53

And I think it's super exciting

31:55

that Casey and Channing are about to

31:58

create a whole new. story.

32:00

You know, there's so many things they'll be able to do in a

32:02

season that, you know, just because it's longer

32:05

that they, that you're not able to do in the

32:07

film. I mean, David Hayman is still involved in the,

32:09

in the, in the, uh, the series as well, which

32:11

will be super great and exciting. I

32:13

used the term big guns earlier. It feels like quite a

32:16

male term anyway, but you know, in the

32:18

movie world, the big guns are often male. Um,

32:21

you're a significant player here. Donna Langley,

32:23

who I've interviewed before is running universal.

32:26

Are things changing because, you know,

32:28

I, I just saw today, a UCLA

32:31

diversity report came out, you know, their

32:33

annual diversity in Hollywood and it's still

32:35

the case, you know, hardly any women

32:37

directors making big budget movies. I think

32:39

of the hundred million budget movies, only

32:42

three women directors, including Greta, um, 25 men,

32:44

uh, and women of

32:47

color, you know, continually left out.

32:50

Are things changing in Hollywood? I ask people this all

32:52

the time and they say they are, but then the

32:54

numbers come out again and they haven't. I know it's

32:57

hard. It's frustrating, right?

32:59

Because all these reports come out and it

33:01

feels like when you feel like you're doing

33:03

the work, which I feel that we, we

33:05

are here at Warner's, um, you

33:09

think that it's going to be different and

33:11

it hasn't quite grown to the level, but

33:13

I think a lot of this has to

33:15

start with education and, and it has to

33:18

start with the younger education. And that goes

33:20

for every aspect of the business where we

33:22

are lacking diversity and, and

33:24

women in certain job roles,

33:26

whether that's directing, whether that's

33:28

cinematography, whether that is visual

33:30

effects or sound. I think,

33:34

I think traditionally there are certain

33:36

roles that women gravitated

33:38

towards because there was no

33:40

one in those positions before them that

33:43

they saw that looked like them or people,

33:45

you know, people of diverse backgrounds felt that

33:47

they had an entryway into the business. So

33:50

I think concentrating on education and

33:52

I think the academy is trying to do

33:54

that and different kinds

33:57

of programs like the Hollywood reporters women's

33:59

program. where it's, I

34:01

did that one year and you team

34:03

with, you have a mentee who's a

34:05

young woman, you know, there's these kids

34:07

there in high school just outside of

34:10

Los Angeles, like very close, just in

34:12

little suburbs around, and they can see

34:14

the Hollywood sign, but the idea of

34:16

getting into a job is so far-fetched

34:18

for them. They don't even know that

34:20

that's a possibility for them. And these

34:22

kinds of programs that allow these young

34:24

high school students to say, hey, I

34:27

can be part of a storytelling experience. I don't

34:29

have to be Greta to do it.

34:31

I don't have to be, you know, I

34:34

supported this young woman who had

34:36

a wonderful film out this year, A.B. Rockwell, 1001.

34:40

I don't have to be her to do that, to

34:42

be a storyteller. I can work in craft service. I

34:44

can work in sound. I can work in camera. I

34:46

just think education is the most

34:49

important thing, and that's how we're gonna change

34:51

the numbers. And clearly it makes a difference

34:53

once people are in positions of power.

34:55

Correct. I was interviewing Emerald Sunell

34:57

the other day, about Saltburn, and

34:59

she was saying on that film, they'd made sure

35:01

that more than 50% of the people

35:04

behind the camera were women, and that had meant a lot to

35:06

her. For someone like you in

35:08

your position, is that what you're also trying to

35:10

do? Absolutely. Quotas or? No,

35:12

it's not quotas. I think it's

35:14

just, I think it's being,

35:17

again, I keep using this word intentional, but

35:19

I think that's what we have to be

35:21

now more than ever in this

35:23

marketplace that we're in, and in this storytelling

35:26

atmosphere we're in. I think

35:29

it's important to, I'm

35:33

not saying you have to hire someone because

35:35

they're a woman or from a diverse background,

35:37

but you have to create opportunity, and you

35:39

have to have people go

35:42

in there and pitch themselves and give them the opportunity

35:44

and let them know that it's okay to come in

35:46

and pitch yourself. And you may not get one job,

35:49

but you may get the other job. And

35:51

it's all a networking business as well, and

35:53

it's all about working

35:55

with artists and creators

35:57

and technicians, and that's how you- You

36:00

build the family and you grow together. I

36:02

mean, I think, you know, I've

36:05

always been intentional about it from the time

36:07

I was young. I've worked with many female

36:10

directors and people of color and I

36:12

think that it is, I just

36:15

think it's imperative to tell different stories

36:17

from different lenses with different perspectives. There's

36:19

no, that's the world. The world is

36:21

told in, you know, everybody walks through

36:24

life with a different perspective. Entertainment

36:27

and storytelling should be represented for everyone. So

36:29

when you see, you know, every year the Oscar

36:31

list comes out, no women's

36:33

ever won Basim cinematography, Oscar,

36:36

only one woman on the directing list this year, same

36:38

as, you know, previous years.

36:41

What do you think when you see that? I think we have a lot

36:43

of work to do. And I think

36:45

I have a lot of hope though, for the future.

36:47

I feel like, you know,

36:49

we have some wonderful, I mean, I didn't,

36:53

when I was growing up in the, like when I was starting

36:55

to try to come into the business, there

36:57

weren't a lot of women directors. I

36:59

didn't, I didn't know that that was maybe a path

37:01

for me. There was writers, but

37:03

there were a lot of executives. There were

37:05

a lot of female executives and a lot

37:08

of female producers. So like reading about Dawn

37:10

Steele, reading about Sherri Lansing, you know, reading

37:12

about Julia Phillips, the producer who did this

37:14

thing, you know, reading about

37:16

these women, Gayle Ann Heard, and Linda Oates.

37:19

These were groundbreaking people that, you know,

37:21

broke barriers and came in and told

37:24

great stories. And a lot of them stories

37:26

that featured really, you know, complex

37:28

women at the center of them. So that

37:31

was inspirational for me. And then, and

37:33

then I, you know, listen, I was lucky. One

37:35

of Danny's partners is Stacy Sherr, who, you know,

37:37

produced Pulp Fiction and Hateful Aids.

37:41

And she's, she's an extraordinary producer and I learned

37:43

from her and she mentored me. So I was

37:45

really lucky to have a mentor like that. Then

37:48

when I went to Paramount, I was really lucky

37:50

to have him to get to work for Sherri

37:52

Lansing for a year. We

37:54

learned so much from them. I was really lucky

37:56

early on getting to know Donna Langley and getting

37:59

to know Mary Parrish. I was slightly, you

38:01

know, they were already executives when I started

38:03

as an assistant and they were always supportive

38:05

to me and I was able

38:07

to go to them and ask for advice. I

38:09

try to be that way for the next generation.

38:11

That's important to me. I want to give back.

38:14

I feel very lucky and blessed

38:16

for my career and for both

38:19

the male and female mentors I had. And

38:21

I just think it's my responsibility and it's

38:23

imperative. And, you know, eventually maybe

38:26

I'll retire, but probably not. You're probably going to have

38:29

to wheel me off of a set. You just keep

38:31

on going. Absolutely. I just love it too much. Yeah,

38:33

fair enough. I would too if I'm sure. If I

38:35

was going to. We're from the UK.

38:38

We're here in Hollywood, but let's

38:40

talk about the UK. You're expanding your studios

38:42

in the UK at Leaston. The British Chancellor

38:44

Jeremy Hunt said the UK will be

38:46

second only to Hollywood for studio space next

38:49

year. What makes the UK a good place

38:51

for you to make movies in? Well, you

38:53

have amazing crews. I

38:55

think the craftsmanship is extraordinary. And

38:59

there's a great, you know, great

39:01

incentives to go there. And I think,

39:04

you know, everything has, you know,

39:06

visual effects, sound studios, color

39:10

studios, the big stages we have at Leaston.

39:12

I just think everything's there. It's state of

39:14

the art and it's just a wonderful place

39:16

to work. Are we cheaper too? I

39:20

don't know that you're cheaper. I just think you have

39:22

a different, you know, tax incentive than a lot of

39:24

the states do here. And

39:27

I'm interested in what you make of the argument

39:29

you were talking earlier about, you know, that kind

39:31

of collective experience of going to see movies. And

39:33

yet, you know, there is also an argument that cinema just

39:36

no longer plays such a key

39:38

role in pop culture. You know,

39:40

Barbenheimer aside, you know, video games,

39:42

TikTok are arguably more important for

39:44

multiple generations. TV viewing for the

39:47

Oscars has gone down, you know,

39:49

for several years. Is it

39:51

you picking up? Is it a sign that

39:54

people are less interested in cinema? I don't

39:56

think they're less interested. I think I think

39:58

cinema has struggled over the last. several years

40:00

because we've had quite a few

40:02

things happen. We had a global

40:04

pandemic and last year

40:06

we unfortunately had the strike and

40:09

I think that the

40:11

consistency of the

40:13

movie-going experience got delayed

40:15

because of these two very big events.

40:17

I think the more we create stories

40:19

that people want to go to the

40:22

theater and see they're going to go.

40:24

They didn't stop going years ago after

40:26

the global pandemics. They

40:28

didn't stop going to theater in the

40:30

1800s when there were global pandemics. They

40:32

still want that kind of energy and

40:35

communal experience. I think it's

40:37

about the more, hopefully

40:39

this year you'll see a lot of movies

40:42

got pushed to the back half of this

40:44

year. We had a really barren first quarter

40:46

in exhibition because

40:48

of the strikes and let's see what

40:50

happens. I think it's super exciting. Dune

40:54

2 is just so wonderful that it's

40:56

igniting audiences around the world wanting to

40:58

go see it. There's more

41:00

than just Barbenheimer. There were Super Mario

41:02

Brothers last year. There was Sound of

41:04

Freedom last year. There was Five

41:09

Night at Freddy's last year. There

41:11

were several films that ignited audiences

41:13

that they wanted to go see.

41:15

Where are you on duration? Casablanca

41:18

was only one hour 42. Barbeat 12

41:20

minutes longer than that. But we've got

41:22

Killers of the Flower Moon over three

41:25

hours. Oppenheimer, three hours. I spoke

41:27

to Sir Ridley Scott about this. He talked

41:30

about squeaky bum time. He thinks after about

41:32

two hours people just start moving. Are just

41:34

films getting a bit too long? Some of

41:36

them are long. Yes, some

41:38

of them are too long. But I

41:43

think that you can't say every movie needs to

41:45

be 90 minutes or every movie should be three

41:47

hours. But do you say that

41:49

to your direct handle? We work with the

41:51

filmmakers and say I work closely with the

41:53

filmmakers when I feel like something's too long.

41:55

We say this feels like the

41:57

pace here or this isn't very good. working

42:00

in this section and we have wonderful tools

42:02

with audiences to see where they get a

42:05

little uncomfortable at times. But at the end of

42:07

the day, what

42:10

is the filmmaker's vision and how do we communicate

42:13

the story they're trying to tell in the right amount

42:15

of time? I'm interested in how

42:17

you balance, because clearly you're in a very

42:19

creative industry as a very creative person. But

42:21

equally, you're in charge of the money and

42:23

the economics. How do you

42:25

balance that with filmmakers who want to go

42:27

really long, who want to spend hundreds of

42:29

millions? Well, I think, and

42:31

I can't speak for everyone else, I think Mike

42:34

and I, our unique

42:36

perspective on being chairman of the

42:38

studio is we've also been producers.

42:40

So a lot of the filmmakers that we work

42:42

with, they know that we come

42:45

from a place with best intentions about

42:47

the movie. And we try

42:49

to very early on in the process with

42:51

filmmakers, we work really closely with them, determining

42:53

what that budget of the film needs to

42:56

be and being disciplined about the budget. And

42:58

we're not trying to cut them just to

43:01

cut them. We're not trying to give them

43:03

too much just to overindulge. We give the

43:05

right amount of money for that particular film.

43:07

And are there difficult conversations at home? Of

43:09

course they are. Sometimes they're really difficult conversations.

43:11

But like I said, if you're transparent and

43:14

you stay upfront, this is what we think

43:16

the budget should be. And

43:18

we work together to get there. They know

43:20

we're coming from a place of, we approach

43:22

everything as like producers. That's just the way

43:24

Mike and I do it. And

43:27

we're never going to change. We're never

43:29

going to be any different. So I

43:31

think the conversations sometimes go down a

43:33

bit easier because the filmmakers know we've

43:35

been on the ground in the trenches,

43:38

sweating it out as producers. And we

43:40

understand the challenges that they face every

43:42

day. And we've all been in

43:44

the cinema watching some amazing film and then someone next

43:46

to us is sitting on their phone. Oh yeah. Cinema

43:49

etiquette. Where are you with that? No one should be on their

43:51

phones. What do you say when someone is? Please

43:53

put your phone down. You do say that. I

43:56

go to the cinema almost. I try to go almost every

43:58

weekend. You know, my daughter. and I love going,

44:00

my husband loves to go. We

44:04

try to see everything in the theater. It's really important

44:06

to us. It's really important to me. I

44:09

have to say, I haven't noticed a lot of

44:11

people on the phones lately. Like, I took, when

44:14

my daughter and I went to see Mean Girls, you would think that

44:18

there'd be more kids on there, like, messing

44:20

around on the phones. And I didn't see that they

44:22

were engaged. OK. And my last question for you is,

44:25

as we said, in Warner Brothers, you've been here

44:27

for a while now, but with many more years

44:29

to go, I'm sure, with

44:32

the Academy Awards heading towards us, what

44:35

just sum up what you're doing to make

44:37

sure that in the future, you're sitting in

44:39

that Dolby theater in next year, the year

44:41

after, the year after that, with your film

44:43

winning Best Picture? What

44:45

am I doing? Trying to find the

44:48

best scripts possible, and

44:50

really trying to build an eclectic slate. Mike and

44:53

I are building an eclectic slate here, where we

44:55

try to make different kinds

44:57

of movies, different budget levels with

44:59

world-class storytellers. And I think

45:02

that's the best you can do, is try to

45:04

find the best stories possible that are commercial, that

45:07

are artistic, that, you know,

45:11

where commerce and art meet each

45:13

other. Come up, please. Thank you

45:15

very much. Thank you for having me. All right. Do

45:20

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