0:00

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0:02

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0:04

at winning prices. And with special financing

0:06

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0:09

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0:13

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store or ashley.com for details.

0:27

Tonight on the Mehdi Hassan Show, it's

0:29

one year till the 2024 election and the polls do

0:32

not look good for Joe Biden. My

0:34

conversation on that and the war in Gaza with

0:36

Democratic Congressman Jamal Bowman. Plus,

0:38

Mary Trump is here to preview her uncle's big day in

0:42

court tomorrow as the ex-president gets ready to

0:44

testify in his own civil fraud trial. And

0:47

Gaza suffers another communications blackout amid

0:51

intense Israeli bombardment. I'll

0:53

speak with a top UN official who resigned from

0:55

the organization, citing the quote,

0:57

genocide of the Palestinians.

1:07

Good evening, welcome to the show. I'm Mehdi Hassan.

1:10

It's November the 5th, 2023, which

1:13

means exactly a year from now, November

1:15

the 5th, 2024, Americans will go to the polls to

1:18

pick their president. And it looks

1:21

like the president's going to be And

1:23

it looks almost certain that once again, they'll be picking

1:25

between Joe Biden and

1:27

Donald Trump. A choice that Americans are saying

1:29

in poll after poll that they do not

1:32

want. They don't want a rerun of 2020. They

1:35

don't want Democratic and Republican candidates

1:37

with the names Biden and Trump.

1:40

But here we are. And here's the bad news for

1:42

team Biden in particular. If the election

1:44

were held not a year from now, but today, the

1:47

twice impeached, four times indicted Donald

1:49

J. Trump would win the electoral college

1:51

with over 300 votes, easily defeating

1:53

President Biden. That's according to a

1:55

new poll out today from The New York Times and Siena

1:58

College, which shows Biden.

1:59

using to Trump in five of the six

2:02

key battleground states Arizona, Georgia,

2:05

Michigan, Nevada and Pennsylvania. The

2:07

President is ahead only in Wisconsin

2:09

and only by two percentage points there.

2:12

It's worth noting that Joe Biden carried all

2:14

six of these states back in 2020. But

2:17

that's not all. The new poll also points

2:19

to several other glaring liabilities

2:22

for the President, including

2:24

his age. 71% of voters surveyed say Biden,

2:27

who will turn 81 later this month, is

2:29

too old to be an effective president. That includes

2:31

a remarkable 54% of his own

2:34

supporters. The same doesn't apply,

2:36

weirdly, to 77-year-old Donald Trump.

2:38

Only 39% of the overall electorate say

2:40

that Trump is too old to hold office with

2:43

just 19% of his supporters sharing

2:45

that view. Another issue hurting Biden

2:47

is the economy. Voters buy a 59% to 37%

2:50

margin, plus Trump over Biden

2:53

on economic issues. That's the largest gap of any

2:55

issue surveyed in that poll. That's

2:57

despite the fact that just last week we learned that

2:59

strong consumer spending drove the US GDP

3:02

to its biggest rise in nearly two years,

3:04

growing 4.9%. And

3:06

right now unemployment is at one of its lowest rates

3:08

for 50 years. People don't seem to care

3:11

in the polling. There's also growing concerns

3:13

over President Biden's mental fitness.

3:15

According to the poll, 62% of voters say

3:18

the President does not have the mental sharpness

3:20

to be effective. And yet, believe

3:22

it or not, only 44% of voters believe

3:24

the same of Donald Trump.

3:27

However, Trump's declining mental acuity

3:30

is kind of hard to ignore. Here

3:32

he is just last night in Florida delivering yet

3:34

another incoherent, rambling mad

3:37

speech. Many

3:39

many terrorists are coming in. Thousands of

3:42

middle-aged men are coming

3:45

in. Young men are coming in. Everyone's

3:47

saying, how come they're all so young and

3:50

so strong and they're

3:52

coming from China? Everything's a lie. The

3:55

whole thing is a lie. The

3:57

whole election was a lie.

3:59

Why would

4:01

I do a debate when Christie,

4:04

sir, I'm sorry, he is not

4:06

a fat pig, okay? This man, he said,

4:10

he is not a fat pig. No,

4:16

it's true. And you can't,

4:18

you can't use the term fat. You're

4:22

allowed to use the word pig, but not fat.

4:26

He sounds totally, mentally fit to

4:28

be president to me. But

4:30

perhaps the most stark finding from that new poll

4:32

from the Times is this. Biden trails

4:34

Trump by five points nationally, but when voters

4:37

were asked about a hypothetical race involving not

4:39

Biden, but an unnamed generic Democrat,

4:42

that candidate actually leads Trump by

4:44

eight points. That's a 13 point

4:46

swing. So to call these poll

4:49

results anything other than savage for the president

4:51

of the United States for the Democratic Party,

4:53

and let's be honest, for the future of American democracy,

4:56

would be an understatement to pretend things are

4:58

fine and will be fine is mad.

5:01

Having said all that, let me say again tonight, as

5:03

I've said many times before on this show, we

5:05

also do need to calm down a bit, get

5:07

some perspective, especially historical perspective.

5:10

Yes, the polls are bad for the sitting president,

5:13

but we are still one year, exactly

5:15

one year out from the election, 12 whole months. The

5:18

Biden campaign for reelection hasn't yet fully

5:20

launched. The Trump criminal trials,

5:22

four of them haven't yet started. And we

5:24

know that incumbent presidents like Barack

5:26

Obama and Ronald Reagan also trail their expected

5:29

opponents at this stage in their first

5:31

terms, too, only to emerge victorious

5:33

a year later. We also know that Biden's

5:35

own poor approval ratings didn't really hurt

5:38

Democrats in the midterms either. Remarkably,

5:40

they held on to the Senate and prevented a red wave

5:42

in the House. They did it by focusing

5:44

on abortion rights and voting rights, which

5:46

they can and presumably will do

5:49

again next year. And in the meantime, Trump

5:51

is giving Democrats ample ammo

5:53

to use against him almost daily. According

5:56

to new reporting from the Washington Post out just this

5:58

morning, Trump and his allies have already started

6:00

mapping out specific plans for a second term

6:02

revenge mission. The Post reports that Trump

6:04

wants to exploit the power of the federal government to

6:07

punish his critics and opponents using

6:09

the Department of Justice to investigate one-time

6:11

officials, and previous allies of his

6:13

who have since become critical of him. But

6:15

he doesn't just want to take over the DOJ, advisors

6:18

for the ex-president have also discussed deploying

6:20

the military to quell possible

6:22

unrest on day one of his presidency. Yes,

6:25

his associates have begun drafting plans to potentially

6:27

invoke the Insurrection Act on Inauguration

6:30

Day to target civil demonstrations.

6:34

So it's very clear exactly what is

6:36

at stake in this next election.

6:39

Still, the Democrats probably need to find the

6:41

right balance between calm and

6:44

complacent. I mean, let's be clear,

6:46

it would be crazy for Biden and the Democrats

6:48

to just ignore the age issue, which just

6:51

won't go away for it. It would be crazy for Biden

6:53

and the Democrats to ignore how their message on the economy,

6:56

backed by, yes, actual facts and figures,

6:58

is still not getting through to people. And it would be

7:00

crazy for Biden and the Democrats to ignore the massive

7:03

rutcheons within their base, especially

7:05

among young voters and people of color and Muslims

7:08

who are vocally opposed to the administration's seemingly

7:10

unconditional support for Israel's brutal

7:13

bombardment of the Gaza Strip. According

7:16

to recent polling from Gallup, Biden's job approval

7:18

rating upon Democrats, among Democrats,

7:21

has tumbled 11 percentage points just

7:23

in the past month. Which is now at 75 percent,

7:26

which is the lowest it's ever been for him during his

7:28

presidency. Look, the truth

7:30

is that it's much harder for a Democratic Party leader

7:32

in charge of a party whose base is actually

7:35

diverse. That is an actual coalition

7:37

of younger and older voters, white and

7:40

non-white voters, quote unquote moderate

7:42

and quote unquote progressive. It's

7:45

much harder for a Democratic Party leader to

7:47

keep that coalition intact, united,

7:50

energized, in an era of political polarization.

7:53

And yes,

7:54

war. A war in the Middle East that I

7:56

want to be very blunt with you because because

7:58

of the backlash we're seeing. young voters, Arab-American

8:01

voters and others in swing states like Michigan

8:03

and Pennsylvania, a war that

8:06

could end up costing Joe Biden reelection.

8:09

The Republican base, on the other hand, rather conveniently

8:11

for Donald Trump, is pretty white, pretty

8:13

old, pretty universally conservative. In

8:16

the era of Trump, it's also become pretty

8:18

cultish. So they'll get behind him,

8:20

warts, crimes and all. The

8:23

only thing we can say for certain right now is once

8:25

again, everything is riding on the next

8:27

election. And once again, it's just

8:30

too close to call. Joining

8:32

me now to discuss all of this and more Democratic

8:35

Congressman, Jamal Bowman of New York Congressman.

8:37

Thanks for coming back on the show. Let's start

8:39

with that poll. It's no secret that

8:41

Joe Biden wasn't the first choice for you and

8:43

your fellow progressives back in 2020. You've

8:46

since all endorsed his reelection.

8:48

And yet today's poll shows even a generic

8:50

nameless Democrat fares better against Trump in 2024.

8:54

Is it time for Democrats such as yourself to consider

8:56

an alternative to Joe Biden? Even former

8:58

Obama advisor David Axelrod is suggesting that

9:00

today. It's

9:04

time for us. You mentioned that

9:06

we need to remain calm because we're one

9:08

year out from the election. I think

9:10

it's time for us to be anything but

9:13

calm. I think we have to get

9:15

to the business of urgent organizing,

9:18

boots on the ground, really engaging

9:20

voters in a direct and authentic

9:23

way. And not just people like myself,

9:25

the White House needs to do an exceptional

9:28

job of this. Because as you mentioned,

9:30

in your open, people of color

9:33

are disengaged. Muslims

9:35

are disengaged. The Arab

9:37

community is the human,

9:41

excuse me, upset at the president's

9:43

handling of what's happening in Gaza. So

9:46

there's a large part of the Democratic

9:48

base that is struggling to come

9:50

around to continue to support President

9:52

Biden. And so urgent organizing

9:55

has to be number one on our agenda

9:58

so that we can hopefully turn.

9:59

this around by next year because I

10:02

at the moment do not see another

10:04

candidate rising up from the ashes

10:06

and coming to oppose

10:09

Trump. I do not see that happening right now.

10:11

So we have to support who we have. So

10:13

you suggested that the White House needs to be doing much

10:16

more. And I'll come back to Gaza in a moment, but just on

10:18

the domestic politics, I want to get your reaction to

10:20

that new reporting from the Washington Post about Trump's

10:22

plot for revenge. He's already planning to use the DOJ

10:25

to punish his critics. He wants to deploy the military

10:28

against demonstrators if he wins. And

10:30

despite these terrifying and I would argue fascistic

10:33

reports, he still leads against

10:35

Biden in a lot of polls, not just overall, but on

10:37

specific issues like national security and

10:40

mental fitness. Surely

10:42

the Democrats have to own some of that, the

10:44

failure to actually properly hold Trump

10:46

to account, to message about him. This Biden

10:49

White House has often wanted to stay above the fray and

10:51

not talk about Trump. And yet here you are,

10:53

a year out from the election and Donald Trump is leading.

10:58

Well, Trump has a very loyal base.

11:00

He has a base that no matter

11:03

what he does, they seem to continue to support

11:05

him. And he has a base that wants

11:07

to see transformational leadership.

11:10

And they think he's the leadership that can provide

11:12

that transformation for them, especially

11:15

if they are white nationalists. I

11:17

mean, this is a president who attempted

11:19

a coup d'état and thankfully was

11:22

unsuccessful. I'm very worried

11:24

about what's going to happen in

11:26

our country and to our democracy if he

11:29

gets back into office. I've heard many people

11:31

say they don't think he's going to leave.

11:33

He will figure out a way to

11:35

stay in office. And in terms of policies

11:37

coming from the Republican party, they don't

11:39

have a chance when you compare their policies

11:42

to what's happening in the Democratic party

11:45

over the last several years. And to your

11:47

point about the economy, that's a big point because

11:50

no matter how much we're seeing the

11:52

job growth and all of that, people

11:54

are still struggling with affordability.

11:57

And that's an issue we need to hold the Republican

11:59

party accountable. affordable for? How are you making

12:01

life more affordable for

12:03

the American people? They're really not doing anything

12:06

on that front.

12:08

No, they're not. And yes,

12:10

as I say, they continue to lead in the polls at the national

12:13

level. I do want to talk about Gaza. Before

12:15

I get to that, though, I have to ask you about your recent

12:17

guilty plea to a misdemeanor after you pulled

12:19

a fire alarm at the Capitol back in September.

12:22

At the time, you said you activated the alarm by

12:24

mistake on your way to a vote. But now you're

12:26

pleading guilty and paying a fine. So I just want to clear this

12:28

up for our viewers. Do you accept what you did was

12:30

wrong or was it a mistake? Which one?

12:34

Both. It was a mistake

12:36

and it was wrong. It was in violation

12:38

of DC law. So I

12:41

had to take responsibility for that, which I

12:43

did. I look forward to paying a fine.

12:45

I look forward to it being dismissed in three

12:48

months. And so it was both a mistake.

12:50

It was both wrong. Got to take responsibility

12:53

for what you do, which I did, and looking

12:55

forward to moving on and continuing to serve my

12:57

district.

12:58

Let's talk about Gaza, Congress. But how much

13:01

damage is Joe Biden's support for

13:03

Israel doing to the Democratic base? And

13:05

how much is that going to cost him in places like Michigan

13:08

with younger voters, Arab American voters,

13:10

and a key battleground state, which thanks to that

13:12

new poll from The Times, we already know he's struggling in even

13:14

before this war. Could this war cost

13:17

him reelection?

13:20

Yes, it could. And let

13:23

me just be very clear. It's one thing to support

13:25

Israel, which the US has always

13:27

done and will continue to do. It's

13:30

another thing to never hold Israel

13:32

accountable for their behavior,

13:35

whether it's related to the occupation,

13:37

the open air prison that is Gaza,

13:40

or the war crimes that are taking place

13:42

right now during this siege. I

13:45

mean, Israel was very clear from the beginning,

13:47

we're going to cut off water, food, electricity,

13:50

they've used white phosphorus. In

13:53

terms of collective punishment, that's what's

13:55

happening right now, moving half the

13:57

country from one part of the, excuse me, half

13:59

the street. from one part of the strip to the

14:01

other, or trying to within 24 hours. These

14:04

are things that President Biden hasn't

14:06

been strong enough in holding Israel

14:09

to account. And the Muslim community,

14:12

the Arab community, and Palestinians hear

14:14

that loud and clear and receive

14:17

that as erasure, and even

14:19

further receive it as dehumanization.

14:22

And this is where this president has to do better, but

14:24

this is where the United States has to do better

14:26

as well, because it's not just this president

14:29

or this war. This is historical.

14:32

Historical just continuing to support

14:35

Israel without the proper critiques

14:37

and accountability led us to

14:40

what happened on October 7th, but

14:42

also what's happening now.

14:45

Congressman, you say that it could cost him reelection.

14:47

Could this war cost you reelection from the other

14:49

direction? Because although you're hosting an event

14:51

against anti-Semitism and you've condemned Hamas,

14:54

you're still facing massive blowback over

14:56

your call for a ceasefire. Jewish leaders in your

14:58

district have denounced your approach. More than

15:01

two dozen local rabbis, I believe, have now called for

15:03

a primary challenger against you. Are

15:05

you willing to lose your seat over your stance

15:07

on Gaza?

15:10

My job and why

15:12

I ran for office and why

15:15

I was elected twice was to

15:17

provide moral leadership and moral

15:19

clarity to this district. And

15:22

while, yes, 26 rabbis did

15:24

write a letter to someone

15:27

to encourage him to primary

15:29

me, 50 individuals

15:33

who are part of an organization called Jews for

15:35

Jamal wrote a letter opposing

15:37

the rabbi letter in support of

15:40

my reelection. And so, as

15:42

we all know, like all communities, the Jewish

15:44

community is diverse, but I think

15:46

it's important in this moment to recognize

15:49

the pain and the trauma that

15:51

the Jewish community is experiencing as a result

15:53

of the Hamas terror attacks on October

15:56

7th, while also

15:58

doing the work on the ground. to

16:01

fight against antisemitism and

16:03

anti-hate in the real way. Not

16:06

political pandering, not virtue

16:08

signaling, not passing resolutions

16:10

in Congress that aren't gonna do anything, but

16:13

the pandering I'm talking about, we gotta do

16:15

the work on the ground and make sure we deal with

16:17

antisemitism and anti-hate in all those forms.

16:21

Well said, last question. You're one of the 20

16:23

or so members of Congress who has called for a ceasefire.

16:25

There's clearly a moral case for that. But what do

16:27

you say to your critics who argue that

16:29

a ceasefire would allow Hamas to just

16:31

regroup, rearm, and attack

16:33

Israel again?

16:36

You know, when you look at how we caught

16:38

Osama bin Laden, we were surgical,

16:41

we were strategic, we used special

16:43

forces to get Osama bin

16:45

Laden. We can do the same thing to

16:48

get Hamas because it is crystal clear

16:50

that Hamas needs to be dealt with and

16:52

deconstructed. But indiscriminately

16:55

bombing innocent civilians, 10,000 dead, 4,000

16:57

children, any

17:00

conflict that leads to the death of one child

17:03

close us that we need to take a different

17:05

approach. And so this approach right

17:08

now is killing tens of thousands of civilians,

17:10

injuring tens of thousands more,

17:13

and it's not the approach we need to take. And finally,

17:15

at the end of this, not even at the end,

17:17

right now, we need to be pursuing

17:20

a diplomatic approach to not

17:22

just ending this conflict, but finally

17:24

developing and building and creating a Palestinian

17:27

state. Because service to

17:29

that issue also has been something

17:31

that has contributed to the violence that's

17:34

been ongoing for decades.

17:37

Congressman Jamal Bowman, on that note, we

17:39

will have to leave it there. Thank you for your time, appreciate it.

17:42

Thank you.

17:44

After the break, I'll speak with a top UN official

17:46

who resigned after accusing the United Nations

17:48

of failing to address what he calls a textbook

17:51

place of genocide in Gaza. Thank

17:56

you. When

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you covered

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18:12

the gift of better sleep to children in need

18:15

and U.S. Special Operations forces.

18:17

Visit your local Ashley store or shop online

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today and make every snooze count.

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Financing is subject to credit approval. See

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store or ashley.com for details.

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I've

19:02

been in a constant refrain

19:04

in some circles since the start of this conflict

19:06

between Hamas and Israel. There's

19:08

no difference between Hamas and the people of Gaza

19:11

because the Gazans elected Hamas

19:13

to quote Republican Senator Tom Cotton. The

19:15

citizens of Gaza voted for Hamas

19:18

to quote once liberal lawyer Alan Dershowitz.

19:21

That's just false, incorrect, untrue.

19:24

First, half the population of Gaza are

19:26

kids under the age of 18. The vast

19:28

majority of them were not alive, let

19:30

alone old enough to vote the last time elections

19:32

were held in Gaza back in 2006, 17 years ago. Second,

19:38

Hamas didn't even get a majority of the vote

19:40

back in 2006. And in fact, even

19:42

this year, prior to the current conflict, one

19:44

survey found only 27% of Gazans,

19:47

barely one in four, picked Hamas

19:49

as their preferred party.

19:51

And third, even if everyone

19:53

in Gaza had voted for Hamas, supported

19:55

Hamas,

19:56

they're still civilians protected by international

19:59

humanitarian law.

19:59

they still can't be targeted.

20:01

The kind of people who think you can target

20:04

people for death because they voted the wrong way are

20:06

people like Osama bin Laden. That's literally

20:09

what he claimed in his open letter

20:11

to America back in 2002. Casualties,

20:15

however, in Gaza continue to mount. According

20:17

to the Gaza Health Ministry, at least 9,770 people

20:19

have been killed in total since October 7, including 4,008

20:25

children. In

20:29

Washington, D.C. on Saturday, huge crowds

20:31

of protesters turned out to demand the Biden

20:34

administration call for a ceasefire and

20:36

an end to the fighting. And last

20:38

week, a senior U.N. official in the New York

20:40

office of the U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights quit

20:43

the organization, denouncing the U.N.'s

20:45

failing stance on the conflict. In

20:48

his resignation letter, human rights lawyer Craig

20:50

McIber, who worked for the U.N. for three

20:52

decades, referred to the, quote,

20:55

wholesale slaughter of the Palestinian people and

20:57

described it as a textbook case

20:59

of genocide. In a statement to

21:01

the Guardian, the United Nations responded to McIber's

21:04

statement, calling them his personal views

21:06

and saying, in part, quote, the position of the office

21:08

on the grave situation in the occupied Palestinian

21:11

territories and Israel is reflected in our

21:13

reports and public statements.

21:16

Craig McIber joins me now. Craig,

21:18

thanks so much for coming on the show. You left

21:20

the U.N. last week and in your last

21:23

letter to your boss, the U.N. High Commissioner for Human

21:25

Rights, you attacked the U.N. for failing to

21:27

stop the war in Gaza and you called what Israel

21:29

is doing a textbook case of genocide. Now,

21:32

you know, that's an explosive accusation for many.

21:34

There's been a lot of pushback. People say that's hyperbole.

21:36

It's a misuse of the term. You're an international

21:39

human rights lawyer. You were at the U.N. for three decades. Make

21:41

the case briefly to our viewers for why

21:44

you believe what we're seeing in Gaza right now

21:46

meets the legal definition of genocide. Well,

21:50

thanks, Matthew. I mean, first of all, my critique

21:52

was not of the entire U.N. And I want to be very clear

21:55

that I am not criticizing those

21:57

heroic humanitarian and human rights

21:59

workers. workers on the front line, but dozens,

22:01

for example, of unrolled workers who've been killed

22:04

under Israeli bombs in the last few

22:06

weeks. And in fact, people who work for

22:08

the UN all over the world who are very serious

22:11

about the norms and standards of the organization.

22:14

My critique is about the political

22:16

side of the house in the UN. And I really

22:19

believe they've abandoned those workers as

22:21

well as abandoning people on the ground. I

22:23

know that genocide is a very politicized

22:27

term. I know it's often abused. It

22:29

is, because of the politics, sometimes denied

22:31

where it exists and asserted where it does

22:34

not exist. But strictly, it's a matter

22:36

of international law. There are a couple

22:38

of exceptional things here. One is the number

22:40

of specific acts in the UN Genocide

22:43

Convention that have been perpetrated by

22:45

Israel against the civilian population

22:48

of Gaza, including intentionally causing

22:50

serious harm, including bodily harm, imposing

22:53

conditions of life that are designed to bring

22:55

about their destruction. We know about

22:58

this with the closure of the siege on Gaza, specifically

23:00

designed to do so. A

23:05

number of other acts that we could talk about. But what

23:07

is remarkable here is

23:10

how explicit Israeli leaders

23:12

have been about genocidal intent.

23:15

Normally, the difficult thing to prove in matters

23:17

of genocide is intent.

23:20

Here we've had the prime minister, the president,

23:23

cabinet ministers, senior

23:25

military officials, all explicitly

23:28

declaring genocidal intent on

23:31

the record and in public. There's

23:33

no question that there is at least a prima

23:35

facie case of genocide that's

23:37

being perpetrated here. I think the

23:40

context is also important here, because

23:42

this is just the latest in

23:44

a series of ethnic purges of

23:48

areas of historic Palestine that started in 1948 and

23:50

has continued to this day,

23:52

incrementally in the West Bank, to be sure,

23:55

and in Jerusalem, but in a very wholesale

23:57

way now in Gaza. It's

24:00

really important that the UN, which is the guardian

24:02

of these international norms and standards, calls

24:05

a spade a spade. And when you have such a clear case

24:07

as this, the term genocide needs to be applied.

24:10

Great. What would

24:12

you say to defenders of Israel who say, we're

24:14

attacking Hamas, not the Palestinian people.

24:17

And if it was a genocide, we would have killed 100,000 people by now, not 10,000. We

24:21

wouldn't be calling people telling them to leave their homes

24:23

before we strike. We wouldn't be dropping leaflets

24:25

telling them to evacuate. What's your response

24:27

to that line of argument, which I'm sure you've heard? Well,

24:30

first of all, that is not a legal defense,

24:32

to be clear. We can talk about to the degree to which it's

24:34

a moral defense, even less so. But the

24:37

idea that you are pursuing an enemy does

24:39

not give you carte blanche to use

24:43

massive weaponry in a disproportionate

24:45

way without distinguishing between

24:48

civilians and combatants, as Israel

24:50

has clearly been doing. You would have to be incredibly

24:53

naive or terribly mendacious

24:55

to think that when you have bad this number of civilians

24:58

being killed with each attack relative

25:00

to whatever minor number of presumed

25:03

combatants are being hit, that this

25:05

is just an effort to reach those combatants.

25:08

The massive destruction that we are witnessing

25:10

in Gaza is clearly intended to

25:12

clear Gaza, to move

25:14

Gaza at least large portions,

25:17

if not all of Gaza, southward

25:19

and to make it uninhabitable. If

25:24

there was an intent, for example,

25:26

to hold accountable perpetrators of war crimes

25:29

on the 7th of October, there are ways

25:31

to do that under the rule of law that

25:33

don't involve wholesale massacres of

25:35

civilians. There is an obligation

25:38

of distinction. There is an obligation

25:40

of precaution under international

25:43

humanitarian law. None

25:45

of those obligations have been met. When you

25:47

pair them with the statements of intent, it's

25:49

very clear that there is a breach here. And by the

25:52

way, a breach also

25:54

by Western countries like the United States and the United

25:56

Kingdom That are actively

25:59

facilitating the containing Israel's

26:01

onslaught because they too have obligations

26:03

under international humanitarian law, not

26:05

just to respect what's in the Geneva Conventions,

26:08

but to ensure respect vis-a-vis other parties

26:11

over whom they have influence. And rather

26:13

than trying to ensure respect, we've actually seen

26:15

complicity demonstrated by the funding,

26:17

the armoring, the provision of intelligence

26:19

support, the provision of diplomatic cover

26:22

all the way up to the Security Council with the use

26:24

of the US veto to prevent even

26:26

a ceasefire or the protection of civilians

26:29

in Gaza. So this really is

26:32

my appeal to the UN was to move

26:34

away from amorphous political approaches and

26:36

return to international law. And that's what international

26:39

law says, many. Last

26:41

question for you, Greg. Your critics would say that you are,

26:44

as I'm sure you've heard this before, you're biased against

26:46

Israel. The Guardian reported this week that the UN

26:48

was reviewing your social media posts, apparently,

26:51

after a pro-Israel group complained about them. Some

26:54

people might say you didn't quit over the

26:56

UN's failure in Yemen or the UN's failure in

26:58

Sudan or the UN's failure in Syria, but

27:00

you did over Gaza. What do you say to them? Well,

27:04

I did in my letter express my frustration with

27:06

previous failures by the United Nations. And

27:09

I think it's fair enough

27:12

to lodge that critique if somebody

27:14

only spoke about one country. I've

27:16

been 32 years at the UN. I've dealt with dozens of countries

27:19

on all continents. I've criticized

27:21

the human rights violations by all of those countries.

27:23

I've never been attacked for those critiques.

27:26

In the UN, the only time you get criticized is when

27:28

you dare to raise Israeli violations of

27:31

Palestinian human rights. And

27:33

of course, there are Israeli lobby groups who

27:36

are constantly bringing complaints

27:38

to the UN about UN human rights officials

27:40

who dare to criticize Israeli violations, even

27:43

taking it sometimes to smearing you as an anti-Semite.

27:46

And we have been making the case over and over again. And

27:48

I think it bears repeating that criticism

27:50

Israeli human rights violations is not anti-Semitic,

27:53

just as criticism of Saudi violations is not

27:55

Islamophobic, criticism of Indian

27:57

violations is not anti-Hindu.

28:00

criticism of Myanmar violations is not

28:02

anti-Buddhist. If any of

28:04

those are true, then there's no

28:06

place for an international human rights framework. If

28:09

it only applies to Israel, that I

28:11

have said is a racist proposition to

28:13

suggest that only Palestinians

28:15

cannot have their human rights defended. Either one

28:17

of those propositions is unacceptable. And

28:19

I think we see very well that there

28:22

are, you know, with these accusations of

28:24

bias, we see people all over the world

28:26

standing up to reject this, to not be intimidated

28:28

by it. We see Jewish protesters standing

28:31

alongside Muslim, Christian and other protesters

28:34

saying that this is a question of international

28:36

law, of international human rights and of human

28:38

dignity, and not being intimidated

28:41

by these kinds of smears. And neither am I, Matty.

28:45

Craig McIber, we will have to leave it there. Thank you

28:47

so much for your time. Appreciate it.

28:49

Thanks for having me.

28:51

After the break, Ukrainian President Volodymyr

28:53

Zelensky has a new message for Donald Trump.

28:56

And don't forget, you can listen to The Mayor of the Essenger anytime,

28:58

free, wherever you get your podcasts. We'll

29:01

be right back.

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30:09

Just a few short hours from now,

30:11

Donald Trump will take to the stand to give testimony

30:13

that could help decide the fate of his business empire

30:16

in New York. The ex-president's niece,

30:18

Mary Trump, will join me to discuss her uncle's

30:20

big day under oath. That's in a

30:22

moment. But first, Richard Louis is here with some more

30:24

headlines. Good evening, Richard. Good evening to you,

30:26

Mehdi. Other stories were watching this hour for you.

30:29

Ukraine's president invited Donald Trump to visit

30:31

Ukraine. This comes after Trump said he could end

30:33

the war between Ukraine and Russia in 24 hours if

30:35

elected. In

30:38

a Meet the Press exclusive, Vladimir Zelensky

30:40

said he only needs 24 minutes

30:43

to explain to Trump that he cannot manage

30:45

the war. A shooting in Washington

30:47

left two dead and three wounded. At 1.30 a.m.,

30:50

local time, police responded to reports at a

30:52

bar in Tacoma. Some of the victims

30:54

were bystanders. There are no arrests.

30:57

And soon there could be no more giant

30:59

pandas in the United States for the first

31:01

time since 1972. Three

31:04

pandas from D.C.'s national zoo were returned

31:06

to China this month. Zoo Atlanta will

31:08

have the last giant pandas in the country until

31:10

they also leave sometime next year. China

31:13

has gifted pandas known as panda

31:15

diplomacy to countries for years. However,

31:18

with the U.S. and its allies at odds

31:20

with China, efforts to renew the pandas

31:22

contracts were unsuccessful. More

31:25

than Mehdi Hassan show after this break.

31:31

You've got to feel sorry for the Trump family.

31:34

They all suffer, it seems, from really bad

31:36

memory problems. Memory

31:37

problems that were conveniently on full display

31:40

this week in the New York Attorney General's civil

31:42

fraud trial against the Trump family and the Trump

31:44

organization, which accuses them of

31:46

knowingly committing fraud by submitting statements

31:48

of financial condition that inflated the value

31:51

of their properties and other assets. Both

31:53

Don Jr. and Eric Trump testified

31:56

over the last few days. And you'd think

31:58

given that both sons are exactly the same. vice

32:00

presidents and trustees of the business, they'll

32:02

have a good understanding of how their company is run, and

32:05

a good memory of who does what at that company.

32:07

But when Don Jr. was asked whether he worked on his father's

32:10

statements of financial condition, a document

32:12

central to the fraud case, he replied, quote,

32:15

not that I recall. When he was asked if his

32:17

father was still a trustee of the Trump organization,

32:19

Don Jr. again said, I don't recall.

32:22

And he said he had, quote, no understanding of accounting

32:25

practices and heavily relied on company

32:27

accountants in his business dealings. Curiously,

32:30

Eric Trump seemed to have the same sort of memory

32:32

loss, saying he was never involved with his

32:34

father's financial statements. Prosecutors

32:36

actually had to present Eric with decade old emails

32:39

to jog that memory of his email

32:41

showing a fellow Trump organization executive asking

32:44

Eric for information on the financial statements he

32:46

had just denied ever working on. But

32:49

surely Donald Trump himself

32:51

would have a better memory, right? After all, the

32:53

former president has told us all the time

32:55

just how good his memory is.

32:59

I have a very good memory. I'm blessed with a great

33:01

memory. It's called like up here and

33:03

it's called memory and it's called other things.

33:05

What are the great memories of all time? Based

33:10

on his own words, you'd have to assume Donald Trump has

33:12

an excellent memory, the best of all time, at

33:14

least much better than his son's. But

33:16

then again, this is the same Donald Trump that said, I don't

33:18

remember 35 times during his 2015

33:21

deposition in the Trump University lawsuit.

33:24

When Donald Trump becomes the first former president to

33:26

testify in court tomorrow, I have

33:28

a feeling we'll be seeing that version of him all

33:30

over again. I don't recall. And

33:33

then there's Ivanka Trump, whose own memory problems

33:35

we don't quite know about yet, but

33:37

who clearly has a case of bad judgment. She

33:39

actually tried to avoid taking the stand by arguing

33:42

she would suffer quote, undue hardship if

33:44

she were forced to testify quote, in the

33:46

middle of a school week. Yeah,

33:49

can't do it in a school week. Fortunately,

33:51

a New York appeals court didn't buy that bit of ridiculousness

33:54

and denied her request. She's now scheduled

33:56

to testify on Wednesday of this coming week.

33:59

We'll see if she. He and her father followed Don Jr.

34:01

and Eric and come up with a sudden case of, I don't

34:04

recall itis. After

34:06

the break, who better to ask about the family

34:08

memory problem than

34:10

Mary Trump? She'll join you

34:12

next.

34:20

To discuss

34:22

Donald Trump's upcoming post-Semitic civil

34:24

fraud trial, who better to talk to than one of his own family

34:27

members? A critical family member? Mary Trump joins me

34:29

now. She's Donald Trump's

34:31

niece and the author of Too Much and Never Enough, How

34:33

My Family Created the World's Most Dangerous Man. I think

34:35

that book title gives away her basic view of her uncle.

34:38

Mary, thanks so much for coming back on the show. Why

34:40

do you think your poor cousins, Don Jr.

34:42

and Eric, have such poor memories? They

34:44

can't seem to recall anything. It's a real problem

34:47

for them.

34:48

It's very worrisome, especially

34:50

since Alzheimer's does run to my family. I

34:54

think we have a simpler, less scary explanation

34:56

for what's going on. Donnie and

34:58

Eric had, I think, three choices

35:01

going into their testimony. They could

35:03

either plead the fifth, which, as

35:06

we know, in a civil case, is

35:08

very different from pleading the fifth in a criminal case.

35:11

It could be used against you in a particular way. They

35:14

could lie, commit

35:16

perjury, or they

35:20

could tell the truth. I

35:23

think they chose a version

35:26

of the first one, which is simply to say

35:28

they remember absolutely nothing because

35:31

lying in a courtroom is very different from lying

35:34

outside of a courtroom and telling the truth

35:36

for these people is never a good

35:38

option.

35:39

On that note of telling the truth,

35:43

inside a courtroom versus outside where they constantly

35:46

lie, what is Donald Trump going to do

35:48

tomorrow? How do you put Donald Trump on

35:50

the stand? How do you put him under oath? The man

35:52

is a walking perjury trap. If you're his

35:54

lawyer, wouldn't you be just

35:56

heading your hands right now, Sunday night?

35:59

should be. But what I found interesting

36:01

about his lawyer's behavior in the last

36:05

week certainly is that they seem to

36:07

be acting as if they're not

36:09

in a courtroom either. They seem to be goading

36:11

the judge. The judge expanded

36:14

the gag order that had applied previously

36:16

only to Donald to include his

36:18

counsel. And I'm wondering

36:21

if they actually have forgotten that

36:23

the judge is not Donald's

36:26

base. He cannot be spun.

36:29

He's going to be looking at the facts and evidence.

36:32

And I think they would

36:34

be putting

36:37

themselves and their client in

36:39

a very difficult position

36:41

if they cannot impress upon him that

36:44

he needs either to tell the truth

36:47

or keep his mouth shut. And

36:49

I don't know how much control they have at this point

36:51

because again they seem to be feeding into Donald's

36:54

own desires about how

36:56

this case needs to be going.

36:59

I would pay to be a fly on the wall

37:01

when the lawyer for Donald Trump tells Donald

37:04

Trump. You've got to tell the truth and not purge yourself.

37:07

Let's talk about your cousin Ivanka who had a pretty

37:09

amazing excuse for not being able to testify

37:12

or trying to avoid testifying in the civil fraud trial.

37:14

Her lawyer said that Ivanka would suffer undue

37:16

hardship if she's required to testify

37:18

in New York during the middle of a school week. It's

37:21

kind of amazing that she thought she might have a chance

37:23

with that line of argument, is it not?

37:26

Well many, you have to understand it's very difficult

37:28

to be a member of a family crime syndicate. So

37:31

you know you have to

37:32

cut her a little bit of thought. But I think

37:34

it just speaks to the breathtaking

37:36

entitlement of these people that

37:39

they don't even think

37:41

that other people are going to look at their past

37:44

behavior to realize that they

37:47

leave their kids home all the time. Plus

37:49

they probably have lots of help that most

37:52

people with young children don't have

37:54

and she also seems to have forgotten that she has a husband

37:56

who could presumably

37:57

take care of their children.

38:01

Jared does the school run. Dad

38:03

of the year. Let me ask you this,

38:05

a set of New York Times, Siena Coleridge polls

38:08

published today found that 62% of registered

38:10

voters in battleground states think that

38:12

Biden doesn't have the mental sharpness to

38:14

be president. Just 44% said

38:17

the same of Donald Trump. We are only

38:19

three years away from the Trump presidency

38:21

ending from that car crash, from the PTSD

38:24

that a lot of us suffered. But apparently

38:27

Americans, not just

38:29

the Trump kids, have real memory problems,

38:31

have just memory hold how bad it was

38:34

and how unhinged your uncle was

38:36

and is. You're a psychologist. What do you make of

38:38

that poll finding?

38:41

I think it has to do with

38:44

what takes get exposure. For

38:47

example, we've been hearing endlessly

38:49

about Joe Biden's age, not just

38:51

from right-wing media that

38:53

are in the tank for Donald, but everywhere. We

38:56

see it in the headlines on the front page of major

38:58

newspapers. What we don't

39:00

hear about is Donald's

39:03

increasing inability to

39:06

remember where he is or who's president

39:08

of where or who he ran against

39:11

in the last election. Because

39:14

I think that the gravest danger

39:17

we're facing in this

39:19

particular context is that Donald's

39:22

egregious behavior, from his criminality

39:25

to his mendacity to his

39:28

lack of intelligence and

39:30

his total unfitness,

39:33

it's just baked in. It's not

39:36

news. It's not pointed out. It's

39:38

just a given. People

39:40

don't even pay attention

39:43

to it anymore. That's

39:45

very concerning.

39:47

So let me ask you this

39:49

quick last question.

39:51

I've been saying for a while that there will be violence at

39:54

the next election because Trump will either lose,

39:57

in which cases supporters will

39:59

not take it well.