0:01

This podcast has

0:03

bad words. Every

0:05

little thing you

0:07

think that you

0:12

need. Every

0:25

little thing you think that

0:27

you need. Every

0:30

little thing that's just feeding

0:32

your greed. Oh, I bet

0:34

that you'll be fine without

0:36

it. You're

0:39

listening to The Minimalist Podcast with

0:41

Joshua Fields Milburn and T.K. Coleman.

0:44

Thank you, Malabama. Hello, everybody.

0:46

Today we're joined by our

0:48

returning champion. Lisa

0:50

Ann is here. Lisa is the host

0:52

of the new Sirius XM radio show,

0:54

Better Haves. She is also the author

0:57

of The Life Back. Four

0:59

more from loss to

1:01

less is more, where she discusses

1:03

everything she did to simplify her

1:05

life. Last time we had Lisa

1:07

on the show, we talked about

1:09

porn addiction on episode 258. But

1:13

today she's in studio because

1:15

we want to talk about rental

1:17

culture, including finding happiness by owning

1:20

fewer things. Coming

1:22

up on this free public minimal episode,

1:24

a caller has a question about what

1:26

she should do when her style, preferences

1:29

and tastes continue to evolve over time.

1:31

And then we've got a lightning round

1:33

question about which things are better to

1:35

rent than own. Followed by

1:38

our right here, right now segment and a

1:40

listener tip for you. You can check out

1:42

the full maximal edition of episode four

1:44

hundred and forty two, where we

1:47

answer five times the questions and

1:49

we dive deep into several simple

1:51

living segments. That private podcast episode

1:54

is out right now at patreon.com/the

1:56

minimalist. Your support keeps our podcast

1:58

one hundred percent. advertisement

2:01

free because sing along at home

2:03

y'all. Advertisements suck.

2:06

Let's start with our callers. If you have a question or a comment

2:08

for our show, give us a call. We'd love to hear from you.

2:10

Our phone number is 406-219-7839 or

2:15

just email a voice memo

2:17

right from your phone to

2:19

podcast at theminimalists.com. Our first

2:21

question today is from Inka.

2:24

This is Inka, based in Amsterdam. Very

2:27

suddenly, I have hired a professional

2:30

organizer to help me to collaborate

2:32

and organize. One

2:34

thing I've noticed throughout the years

2:36

is that as I grow older,

2:39

going to different stages of my life, my

2:42

interests and preference and styles and

2:44

tastes really change. So I end

2:47

up getting rid of a lot

2:49

of old stuff and keeping the new style.

2:52

But it makes me worry that is there

2:55

something that will continue happening as

2:57

I keep changing and growing

2:59

as a person and always going through

3:01

the same, getting rid of old and

3:04

keeping the new style

3:06

or at one

3:08

point of your life that your taste

3:10

and your personality,

3:12

your styles, will probably

3:14

stay more constant and

3:17

stable. So you don't have to keep going

3:19

through this process. Curious to

3:21

hear your thoughts. Thank you. Lisa

3:25

Ann, I thought this was the perfect question

3:27

to start out with because it is true

3:29

that our tastes, our preferences, our

3:31

personal style does evolve over time. But

3:33

sometimes it also solidifies. You figure out

3:35

what you like. But it's also OK

3:38

if that changes over a period of

3:41

time as well. I've often said that

3:43

trendy is just an adjective that means

3:45

soon to go out of style. If

3:48

you see something that is a TikTok

3:50

fashion trend, I can almost guarantee

3:52

that a month from now or a year from

3:54

now or certainly a decade from now, it

3:56

will have gone out of style. Or maybe it will be back

3:59

in style 15. years from now,

4:01

but what happens is as we let

4:03

go of a trend, well why

4:06

do we do that? It's because we don't

4:08

fit in anymore. So trends are maybe a

4:10

shortcut for us to fit in.

4:13

But I've always thought of

4:15

you as someone who is

4:17

hyper stylish, but also aggressively

4:19

simple. Can you talk about

4:21

that? Yeah, I think, yeah, we are going

4:23

to see things that tempt us and you have

4:25

to look at it as this

4:28

might be a disposable item. Is it a cheap

4:30

enough buy that it's trendy and it's going to

4:32

accessorize something else I already have? But you have

4:35

to also know that by next year, it's

4:37

going to be almost looked down upon to wear it. Anything

4:40

that comes on that strong is going to go out

4:42

just as strong. So to avoid

4:44

those pitfalls is really to look at things

4:46

and say, I'd like to buy smart pieces

4:49

that go with everything. And if once in a while

4:52

I add something and it's fun, that's

4:54

not that practical, maybe it'll have resale

4:56

value. They've now even started

4:58

a cute TikTok thing, a

5:00

bag that you order for $20 and you

5:03

fill this bag with

5:05

clothes and it's shipped back their

5:07

charge. And then you get a

5:09

coupons like Target or these others. For young people,

5:11

this is so cool because now they can just

5:14

quickly get rid of all of these items. Nobody

5:16

has to approve them. But I

5:18

say sticking with simple pieces, we all wear

5:20

a lot of black because it goes with

5:22

everything because you don't just order laundry because

5:24

it's super simple. You eventually realize

5:27

those things make more work. You talked

5:29

about your first documentary. Do you really

5:31

want to take your one weekend off

5:33

and be cleaning out your garage? That's

5:36

what you're going to do with your one weekend off when you

5:38

keep playing with your kids, your dog, your family, whatever. Do

5:40

you really want to take one weekend off to do

5:43

your closet? It's going to be the same thing if

5:45

you continue to fall into trends. And

5:47

yes, we will change and our style will change and it's

5:49

okay to get rid of some things. But

5:51

that is money. But you're also saying I'm willing

5:53

to look at this $200 and say I'm just going to

5:55

use it for a little bit of time. And I'm throwing

5:57

it out the window. That's right. We

6:00

have some questions here about rentals and when

6:03

it's better to rent versus own, but you

6:05

said something to Mallory in an email that

6:07

I found really fascinating. You've been experimenting with

6:09

renting clothes recently, is that right? I

6:12

have and I love it. This is the

6:14

coolest thing ever. So it's newly and

6:17

newly is six items for $98 a month.

6:20

Not a sponsor, by the way. Not a sponsor. What's

6:23

interesting about rental can be a deduction

6:25

from your taxes if you're using these

6:27

things for business, whereas buying clothes is

6:29

no longer a deduction because you could

6:31

be wearing them offset for other things.

6:33

Oh, wow. So there's a little loophole.

6:35

And what I decided I was going

6:37

to do, example, I'm wearing a trench

6:39

coat today. I decided I would look

6:42

at all the items that we wear

6:44

for a certain period of time. Raincoats.

6:47

In New York City, you're going to use a raincoat for maybe

6:49

two months and then you're going to store it for 10. So

6:52

that was first on my list. Coats. I had

6:54

so many fun, colorful coats this winter that I

6:56

didn't have to buy. I can have royal blue.

6:59

I can have green. I can have red. I

7:01

can have all these colors. And then in a

7:03

month, you just pack it

7:05

right back up again and send it

7:07

back. It also helps curb my appetite

7:09

to shop because you're always on

7:12

their platform and seeing what new items have

7:14

come in. You click this little hanger. It

7:16

puts it in your closet. And then when

7:18

it's turned for you to return your six

7:20

items and get six more, you already

7:22

have this little closet put together. Now, you know what?

7:24

The temperature is going to be OK. I'm going on

7:27

a vacation. I'll get some sun dresses. What have you?

7:29

Such a fun way to enjoy the entire

7:31

exercise from shopping online to looking at things

7:34

you don't need, to putting them in your

7:36

cart and then going back two days later

7:38

and saying, I'd never wear that. All

7:41

of that is just exciting

7:43

and it's so efficient. It's also great

7:45

for the environment. It's also great for

7:47

storage. So and I look

7:50

at it as I only want

7:52

to rent items that are worth over three hundred

7:54

dollars. OK, so I got into the math of

7:56

it as well. And I broke down the site.

7:58

I looked at brands like anthropology. I really like

8:01

anthropology theory and I look at things

8:03

that maybe I wouldn't buy that it

8:05

was black I'd buy it but if it's a

8:07

different color I'm not so get all my colors

8:09

that accent my black on newly

8:12

and it's just been a fun whole thing

8:14

I always love that coat. It's rented. I

8:16

have it for two more weeks Like it's

8:18

just a cute a way

8:20

to borrow and share and not clutter your

8:22

life and less than a hundred dollars a

8:24

month To have a whole month

8:27

of shopping pleasure I'm thrilled it's saving me

8:29

even more money that I was saving at

8:31

the same time last year And

8:33

even if we just assume that everything is

8:35

exactly three hundred dollars and nothing more That's

8:38

like a hundred dollars for eighteen hundred dollar

8:40

value. Yeah. All right. Yep. Wow. That's some

8:42

good math right there So

8:44

how much of a role this trends

8:46

play in in your choices? Not

8:49

too much but a little bit because I feel like

8:52

if I'm going to rent it I did rent this

8:54

really trendy blue coat that I thought was super fun.

8:56

I was like, okay This is great would never buy

8:58

it because it's super trendy. So I think if you

9:00

have a trendy urge Rental could

9:03

be a way to really flex that And

9:06

you can also buy the items at a discounted

9:08

price after you wear them So if you're trying

9:10

to see what brands work for you or something's

9:12

comfortable, maybe you'll want to buy a couple of

9:14

things I'm trying not to because I really want

9:17

to use it as a straight rental. Yeah.

9:19

Yeah, it's fascinating And we'll be talking

9:21

a lot about renting today, but I'm

9:23

harkening back to one of our very

9:25

first tour stops It was in 2011

9:27

and there was a guy we were

9:29

in Albuquerque, New Mexico It was Nicodemus

9:31

and I and he said

9:33

whenever I need any sort of big tools

9:36

I just get them from my storage

9:38

locker and my storage locker is Craigslist

9:41

And so what he does say I need a chainsaw

9:43

to cut down a tree that's in my yard I'm

9:45

not gonna go buy a chainsaw But it was difficult

9:47

for him to find one to just rent for a day

9:49

And so he said I just go

9:51

buy it from Craigslist for a hundred dollars or

9:54

whatever it is and I sell it You two

9:56

days later. I sell it back on Craigslist. He's

9:58

effectively renting it and then So when

10:01

we think about renting, what we're often thinking

10:03

about is I'm going to rent that car

10:05

for a day or whatever, but with clothing,

10:07

I would never even think of it or

10:09

a chainsaw. I would never think about that

10:12

as an option. You have to

10:14

buy your clothing. And what you're really

10:16

questioning here is that you don't have

10:18

to do anything. There are other alternatives.

10:21

And for myself, you know, I could stay in

10:23

a very basic wardrobe, but because I'm still hosting

10:25

events and doing appearances, I do

10:27

have the need to buy different things. And these

10:30

are things that I'm not going to wear in

10:32

my everyday life. So I also, when I get

10:34

my event schedule, all of my event outfits this

10:36

year have also been rentals. Cute little jumpers, little

10:38

dresses. And I'm like, it's so fun. I take

10:41

a ton of pictures in it and bye bye.

10:43

Someone else can go have fun in this outfit.

10:46

It's been really fascinating. And

10:48

not everyone is a celebrity who is

10:50

going to events where they need to

10:52

dress a particular way. But

10:55

for most of us, there tends to

10:57

be some sort of an event, whether

10:59

it's a wedding or a funeral or

11:01

a graduation, where you might wear something

11:03

you wouldn't typically wear. And

11:06

as a guy, we're often relegated to going

11:08

to like men's warehouse or something like that.

11:11

But there is a stigma for women. And there was a question about

11:13

that coming up. But Inca, I'd

11:15

love to send you a copy of our minimalist

11:17

rule book, because I think ultimately what we're talking

11:19

about here is setting up

11:21

boundaries. And there are certain

11:23

things, Lisa, you don't rent everything that you

11:25

own. But there are certain things

11:28

where it makes sense, especially with respect to

11:30

trendy styles, where you're like, I'm going to

11:32

set up some boundaries around that. Maybe your

11:34

boundary is I'm only going to purchase one

11:36

thing a month or two things a month.

11:38

Or maybe your boundary now is I'm going

11:41

to rent it for 30 days. And if

11:43

I find I'm getting immense value from it,

11:45

then I'm going to find a way to

11:47

purchase it, almost test driving some of those

11:49

items. So setting up some

11:51

boundaries are important. That's what the minimalist rule book does. 16

11:54

rules for living with less. You can download

11:56

it for free at the minimalist.com or you

11:58

can buy the audio book version. if

12:00

you are interested in that. Before we

12:02

move on to the lightning round, any

12:05

other thoughts on trendiness? Because when we get

12:07

caught up in trendy, even like if you

12:10

wear all black, you can wear a trendy

12:12

version of black. The way things are cut

12:14

this season are gonna be different from the

12:16

way they were cut in 2009. Remember

12:20

the deep V-necks were back in the day.

12:22

And if you're wearing something that was trendy

12:24

like that before, you kind of look crazy

12:26

today. Or you see someone breaking out a

12:28

brand new trend that you're not yet familiar

12:30

with. You're like, oh, what's wrong with that?

12:33

And then you see it a month later

12:35

or three months later and you're like, oh,

12:37

now everyone is wearing it. Yeah,

12:39

I mean, that's just how it happened. You know

12:41

this from ads. You know this from what

12:44

we're supposed to be doing, which is working,

12:46

spending, working, spending. This is really the whole

12:48

idea and concept. Think you see it more

12:50

in New York because you're walking and you

12:52

actually get even more tempted to shop there

12:54

because you see everyone, you grow up, oh,

12:56

that Kelly Green coat. That looks so cute.

12:58

I wonder where she got that. Your mind

13:00

starts going. It's a trigger. So

13:02

now it's like, okay, I'll go to a rental and see

13:04

if I can get a Kelly Green coat. I'm not buying

13:06

it. I'm not buying anything that I wouldn't be able to

13:09

wear year after year. And I do

13:11

look at quality pieces now and say, you'll

13:13

spend, you'll buy less items, but you buy

13:15

quality pieces that will last you longer. You

13:17

take better care of your things when you're

13:19

buying less. Yeah, that's absolutely

13:21

true. Because if you own fewer things, you have

13:23

the resources to take care of them as well.

13:25

If you have just huge walking

13:27

clothes that's full of stuff, you can't possibly take

13:30

care of all of that. I remember

13:32

when I was back in the corporate world, I

13:34

had 12 suits and I had 70 dress shirts.

13:37

Now I want you to think about this for a moment.

13:39

They're all really nice, expensive dress shirts from Brooks Brothers, but

13:42

how long does it take

13:44

you to wear 70 dress shirts? It's

13:46

gonna take me several months, but why do I have that

13:48

many? And many of them, like maybe

13:50

two dozen of them were white dress shirts. What

13:52

the hell am I doing with two dozen? I

13:55

was just holding on to it. I'd buy new ones.

13:58

Well, why? Because that's what you're supposed to do. to

14:00

do or I really like that pinstripe one. And

14:02

so when we're talking about the timeless things

14:04

that you own, if you own a few

14:06

timeless things, they work repeatedly. No one notices

14:09

if you wear, you know, if you have

14:11

three pairs of jeans and you're rotating through

14:13

those three pairs of jeans, you don't need

14:15

40 pairs of pants. And

14:18

however, if you have the same bright

14:20

orange sweatshirt on every day, people are

14:22

going to recognize that. Now,

14:24

Lisa, you're dressed right now. You have on like a

14:27

mock turtleneck and you have blue jeans

14:29

on. You could wear that every day and

14:31

no one's going to be like, oh, didn't you wear that yesterday?

14:34

And then I throw a blazer on top

14:36

of it and it looks even more different.

14:38

But no staples, basic pieces. It's

14:40

also helped with packing. You know,

14:42

when you're on a trip, I just had a trip where

14:44

I was on a layover and I found out my next

14:47

flight wasn't going to be for 11 hours. Years

14:49

ago, that would be a problem, but I only had a

14:51

carry on. So I went to Expedia and said, who else

14:53

has a flight out of this airport in the next hour

14:56

or two? I could buy it because I

14:58

don't have a bag pack. So I was

15:00

able to just roll to the next terminal and get home

15:02

at the right time again and do that. Now,

15:04

again, they're able to spend the money on the ticket

15:07

because I'm not buying as many other things. So

15:09

now you're using your money to make your life

15:11

more comfortable in a better way. And

15:14

I didn't have to abandon a bag on a plane, which

15:16

you're not supposed to do on a layover because they have

15:18

to take all the bags off the plane. I'm like, this

15:20

is why it's great to travel with a carry on. So

15:22

you pack basics that go and you could wear them every

15:24

day. Once you're not worried about someone

15:26

losing your stuff. All of that. Although

15:28

air tags are really fun to track. If

15:31

you have to pack a suitcase and you land, the

15:33

first thing you should do is watch your bag go

15:35

all the way through around the airport and down to

15:37

the terminal. It's just fun to watch. Yeah, yeah.

15:40

I love that. You know, one thing I'll

15:42

say about trends is that I'm

15:44

a firm believer in the idea that we don't get our

15:46

identity from the world. We give

15:48

identity to the world and that we

15:50

have the power to name things, label

15:52

things and crown them in a

15:55

way that changes the way everyone else responds to it.

15:57

And we see this all the time in the celebrity

15:59

world. We all know that Russell

16:01

Westbrook can wear whatever he wants to

16:03

wear. And the moment he puts that

16:05

outfit on, it doesn't matter what it

16:07

is, the world is gonna say that's

16:09

trending now. So it's not just what

16:11

you wear, it's also how you wear.

16:13

It's that phenomenon we call swag, right?

16:16

It's the confidence, it's the self assurance, it's

16:19

the sense of, I like this

16:21

so much that even if you laughed

16:23

at me, I would laugh at you because

16:25

you actually think it's hilarious for me to

16:27

be this cool. And when you have

16:29

that kind of confidence, the world buys into it. And

16:31

of course, no one has everyone

16:33

agree with them about anything, but I

16:36

do believe in that power. And one of the first

16:38

things I would say about this topic is focus

16:41

on those things that you like so much because

16:43

they make you feel relaxed when you wear them.

16:45

They make you feel confident when you wear them.

16:47

When you go to sleep, do you wear things

16:50

because of how you think the world responds? Or

16:52

because of what feels soothing on your body? What

16:54

are those things that feel so soothing to you,

16:56

so good to you, so smooth to you, that

16:58

when you look at yourself in the mirror, you

17:01

say, yeah, I look good,

17:03

I feel good. That's

17:05

90% of it right there because when

17:08

you go out into the world, there's always gonna be somebody that makes

17:10

fun of you. You can go buy the $3,000 or whatever it

17:12

is. The other

17:14

day, by the way, I told Josh, he says, one day,

17:16

man, I'm gonna buy me like a $3,000 suit. And

17:20

he says, I'm glad you think that's a

17:22

really expensive baller price for a suit. He's

17:25

like, you gotta dream bigger, man. I

17:28

think I might've said like $800 or something like that.

17:31

But you can go buy the expensive outfit and

17:34

copy the people on the cover of magazines

17:36

and people will still reject you if you

17:39

don't wear it with confidence. Yeah,

17:41

yeah, I'll just pause there. Well, there's the

17:43

Russell Westbrook swag. That's one bit of it,

17:45

right? But then there's also like the Larry

17:48

David swag. Oh, the best swag ever. Right,

17:50

we're- The same corduroy pants, those bands, and

17:54

the shirt, and the shirt, and the shirt, and then the corduroy

17:56

blazer. Oh, I love all

17:58

of these. And

18:01

where's the overlap on the Venn diagram between

18:03

the two of them is they're both confident

18:05

in what they're wearing and it

18:07

doesn't change who they are as a

18:09

person. It's almost like they're daring you

18:11

to say something about their outfit. Both

18:13

of them. Yeah. Yeah.

18:17

Where Russell Westbrook shows up in the new

18:19

trend that he has created the trend, right?

18:21

You see him on the NBA runway equivalent,

18:23

right? You see him before the game and

18:25

now on the NBA app, they're actually showing

18:27

like fit checks, right? Yep. And

18:29

with NFL. Right. Right.

18:32

And yet you see Larry David and he's not

18:34

walking down a runway looking any different than he

18:36

would if he's just in the back of an

18:38

Uber. It's always. It looks like

18:41

he drives to set in those clothes, works all day

18:43

and then goes and does his other things. He

18:45

doesn't carry a wardrobe bag. This is just what he wears. That's

18:47

right. Amazing. Yeah. So

18:50

Lisa, for someone who says, yeah, I get all that.

18:52

If you're famous, you can get away

18:54

with it because Larry David and Russell Westbrook both have

18:57

that in common, right? What would you say to the

18:59

person who says, look, I'm not a celebrity. I'm not,

19:01

I'm not famous. How do I get

19:03

the power to make something cool merely by loving

19:05

it? I think that's just your

19:07

choice. I mean, you should feel so cool in

19:09

it that other people's opinions aren't what's mattering. And

19:11

I love that you use the word comfort because

19:14

if you feel comfort, comfortable in something, you're going

19:16

to thrive. Your day is going to be easy.

19:18

You're not going to be fidgety. You're not going

19:21

to be checking yourself all the time. So I

19:23

think it's really a self inspired feeling of Larry

19:25

David never looked in the mirror and said, I

19:27

wonder what people are going to think about me

19:29

dressed like this. And there was a day he

19:31

wasn't famous. That's just who

19:33

he is. He knows who he is. Know who you

19:35

are and be comfortable who you are. We've all

19:38

seen the guy who this is the first time he's

19:40

ever worn a suit and he's like tugging at

19:42

the collar and like hiking the pants are too

19:45

tight. And yeah, or the woman who's never worn

19:47

high heels before, but now all of a sudden

19:49

for this event, she's forced to wear high heels

19:51

or feels compelled to wear them because she thinks

19:54

society is forcing her to do that. And

19:56

high heels can be great. If you want to wear them. However,

19:59

if you're you're forced to it, you see

20:01

the awkwardness. It's like a baby

20:04

giraffe trying to walk for the first time.

20:06

It's like, oh no, what am

20:08

I doing? And it's because you've been

20:10

told you have to wear this. This

20:12

is what you are supposed to do.

20:15

And when someone else tells you what you're supposed

20:17

to wear, of course it's not going to feel

20:19

comfortable the first time you wear it. Nanko,

20:21

thank you so much for your question.

20:24

Check out the minimalist rule book, theminimalists.com/rule

20:26

book. You can download that for free

20:28

or check out the audio book version

20:30

over there as well. Before we get

20:32

back to our callers, Malabama, what time

20:34

is it? You know what time it is.

20:36

It's time for the lightning round where we

20:38

answer your questions from Patreon community chats. Yes,

20:41

indeed. We have a question of the week.

20:43

We've been doing this really fascinating question of

20:45

the week. Now, at least you probably remember

20:47

from the last time you were on the

20:49

show, during the lightning round, we each have

20:51

60 seconds to answer your question with a

20:53

short, shareable, less than 140 character response. We

20:55

call them minimal maxims. We put

20:57

them in the show notes over at theminimalists.com/podcast

21:00

so you can copy and share our pithy

21:02

answers on social media if you'd like. We're

21:04

not on social media anymore, but Lisa

21:07

Ann is on social media and some

21:09

of y'all are still on social media as well. If you

21:11

want to share our minimal maxims, you can do

21:13

that. You can find all of our minimal maxims

21:16

over at minimalmaxims.com. And if you want them in

21:18

your inbox, we'll send them to you in your

21:20

email each week. We'll never send you spam or

21:22

junk or advertisements, but we'll send you our show

21:24

notes, replete with a dozen

21:26

or so minimal maxims each week,

21:28

half a dozen sometimes, just little

21:30

pithy aphorisms to start your week

21:32

off in a simple way. Sign

21:35

up for our email list over

21:37

at TheMinimalists.email. Malabama, what was our

21:39

question of the week this week? What's

21:42

one thing you'd rather rent than own

21:44

and what's one thing you'd rather own

21:46

than rent? Now I want to get

21:48

into the specifics, TK. We could talk

21:50

about something that you want to rent versus

21:53

own, something you'd like to own versus rent,

21:55

but do you have something pithy and

21:57

philosophical for us? I'll

22:00

say ownership is an illusion and everything

22:02

is a rental. I mean,

22:04

when you really think about it, ownership is more of

22:06

a political legal concept. It refers

22:09

to our ability to go into a court

22:11

of law and to get the state to

22:13

enforce my opinions about how

22:15

something should be used, or it's about my

22:17

political right to defend my opinions about how

22:20

this should be used against your opinions about

22:22

how it should be used. But if I'm

22:24

walking through nature and a

22:26

lion sees my body, he

22:28

just sees food. He's not thinking

22:31

that dude owns that body. He thinks that

22:33

dude's neck is going to be in my

22:35

mouth. But when it comes to you, on

22:37

the other hand, I have to think of

22:39

my body in terms of ownership and you

22:41

have to think of my body in terms

22:43

of ownership because I have the right to

22:45

put my hands on my body in a

22:47

way that you don't. Same thing with my

22:49

car, same thing with my house, and so

22:51

on. And so it's more of a legal

22:53

concept. But when you really think about it

22:55

in nature, ownership doesn't exist. There are things

22:57

that fall under our custody. There are things

22:59

that we have the power to influence, but

23:02

in nature, things just are, man. And we're

23:04

just making our way. So it's

23:06

all an illusion anyway. You can see

23:08

why we have him on the show, right? So

23:13

glad the lion's not really in here. Important

23:16

ones. I don't know which one of us

23:18

would jump in between you and the lion.

23:21

I'm not sure. That's a tough one. I

23:24

think the lion might run away from TK. He's

23:27

got that voice that will terrify all of

23:29

us. Here's something

23:31

to pity for you. Ownership is a burden whenever it

23:33

gets in the way of a blessing. And

23:36

so when I think about it as a

23:38

legal concept, some things that make sense to

23:40

own as a preference,

23:42

right? And so TK, when you

23:45

and I were talking before this conversation, you

23:47

said something fascinating to me. You said you

23:49

would rather own your home than rent it,

23:52

and you would rather rent your car than

23:54

own it. And that was interesting to

23:56

me because I'm the exact opposite from TK. you

24:00

would pathologize and say, well, TK is

24:02

clearly wrong about both of those things.

24:04

But tell me why you would prefer

24:06

one versus the other. Because

24:09

ownership is a legal political concept, then

24:12

what I choose to own is entirely

24:14

about where do

24:16

I want to be the most opinionated. And

24:18

it turns out that when it comes to renting

24:20

a car, if I rent a car,

24:22

then the people who really own it don't

24:25

really have a whole lot of opinions about

24:27

what I do with it beyond a certain

24:29

measure of maintenance and paying my bills. When

24:31

it comes to a home, I

24:34

want to have a whole lot of opinions about what

24:36

I do in that space. And when

24:38

I'm a renter, the areas where

24:40

I do need to be opinionated, I just

24:42

don't have that power. So I think

24:44

what you choose to own versus rent is really

24:46

going to boil down to where are those areas

24:48

where I really need to have the power to

24:51

call the shots? Where are those areas where I

24:53

really need a lot of freedom? And where are

24:55

the other areas where I'm okay with someone else

24:57

having a say over what color it has to

24:59

be or how it needs to be used and

25:01

so on. So that's where it's at for me.

25:04

Lee San, what about you? Is there anything

25:06

that stands out? We already talked about renting

25:08

clothes, which was a revelation to me. A

25:10

huge revelation to me as well. And it came

25:12

to me, a girlfriend, we were on vacation, she had different

25:14

sundress every day and she's like, I rent them all. And

25:16

I was like, what? For

25:19

myself in this new life that I started

25:21

living, December of 2019, thanks to becoming a

25:25

minimalist, was I'm renting. I'm

25:27

renting my apartment, I don't have a

25:29

car. And I've started to realize

25:31

that I really want to rent everything. I

25:34

don't want to own anything. And that's just

25:36

my opinion, how I'm living. But what I

25:38

love is the freedom of knowing I have

25:40

this choice every time I'm thinking,

25:42

do I want to renew my lease? Would

25:44

I want to live somewhere else? I have

25:46

so little belongings. I could easily pick up

25:48

my life and go, I'm exploring Italy right

25:51

now. I'm looking at all these things and

25:53

I'm realizing, oh, maybe I buy a place

25:55

in Italy that I Airbnb and rent to

25:57

others. And then when I want it, it's

25:59

only. almost like I'm borrowing it from myself. I

26:02

don't really want to call it 100% mine. I

26:05

don't want to put tchotchkes around. I want

26:07

it to be a really easy for somebody

26:09

to come in, share the space, have a

26:11

great experience, make memories with their friends and

26:14

leave. And then I go into that space

26:16

and borrow it from myself. I

26:18

love this feeling, but mind you, from

26:20

23 to 50 to 49, I

26:24

was a homeowner. I was also a landlord.

26:27

I was also the HOA president for two

26:29

years where I lived. So I've done all

26:31

of these things and now I'm kind of

26:33

in this like, huh, life is just easy.

26:35

I go on to an app, my ice

26:37

maker's not making ice. Boom, that comes up

26:39

great. We've got this fixed, have a good

26:41

day. I love this simplicity

26:43

that I'm feeling now. This is who I am

26:45

right now. And that's why I said

26:48

that ownership is a burden whenever it gets

26:50

in the way of a blessing. Homeownership can

26:52

sound really great. I am

26:54

anti-home ownership for me, not

26:57

for anyone else. If anyone else

26:59

wants to own a home, great, so be

27:01

it. Now, here's the problem. Interesting

27:03

coming from a man in LA too. Right,

27:05

also coming from a man who bought a

27:08

home in Ojai a few years ago. And

27:11

when my wife and I came to this agreement,

27:13

I was like, I want to still pretend that I'm

27:15

renting this. So you're the landlord. And

27:18

if anything needs to get sick, Malabamal

27:21

was the mid-tempered. I never know with

27:23

you, wherever, I never know

27:25

with you. Is there a landlord outfit

27:27

or something? I

27:31

never know with you guys. I have a

27:33

landlord kink. You have to admit that the

27:35

greatest thing about renting is the fact that when it

27:37

starts to rain and things are gonna leak, it's not

27:39

really as much of a crisis. Oh, there's

27:41

something leaking. I'll

27:44

call someone. I don't want to have to call myself to

27:46

fix it. Exactly.

27:49

I got to give some credit to Brian in community chats.

27:51

I was rolling when I read this. He

27:53

said, Mitch Hedberg had a joke about renting

27:55

and he's kind of paraphrasing here, but

27:57

he said, I don't need to go to Home Depot. to

28:00

the apartment depot. The apartment depot is just an

28:02

empty store with a bunch of people standing around

28:04

saying, we ain't got to fix shit. I

28:09

love that. And that's how I feel

28:11

about homeownership. Now, thankfully, I don't want

28:13

to own a home. I much rather

28:15

rent because I see the benefits of

28:17

having the ability to walk away when

28:20

I want to walk away, but

28:22

also not needing to

28:24

fix things when a big thing

28:26

comes. I mean, so the rain we've had over

28:29

the last two years, in Ojai, there was a 48

28:31

hour period where we had 17 inches

28:33

of rain. So it was, I

28:35

think, 24 years worth of rain

28:37

in like a three month

28:39

period. Wow. And so my

28:41

crawl space flooded three times.

28:43

We have three sump pumps down there and

28:46

like it not only is it a really

28:48

costly headache, but it's still a headache, even

28:50

if it didn't cost me anything. If I

28:53

was renting the place, I'd say, Hey, dear

28:55

landlord, we've got to fix this.

28:57

Now to your point, TK, having

28:59

the autonomy and the

29:02

freedom to fix it my way is

29:05

maybe the bigger benefit of being able to own.

29:07

So I can see that, but also I recognize

29:09

that if it doesn't get fixed in the way

29:11

that I want to fix renting,

29:13

that means you have the ability to walk away.

29:15

I made a list of a few other things

29:17

that make sense for me to rent movies. Quite

29:19

often I prefer to rent a movie or if

29:21

you're just going to a movie theater, that's a

29:24

type of renting. You took an Uber here, I

29:26

believe, or a Lyft and that's

29:28

a type of renting. It's aggressively short

29:30

term renting, but that's exactly what

29:32

it is. We often don't think

29:34

about it, but going to a movie theater, you're

29:36

renting a movie or renting that seat for that

29:38

two hour period of time. Rental

29:41

cars, and we're getting ready to head over to

29:43

Nashville pretty soon for some media stuff we're doing

29:45

with the Ramsey folks. And that

29:47

is something that I'm going to rent a

29:49

car. I'm not going to buy a car

29:51

while I'm there, obviously, but I also rent

29:53

the seat on the plane that flies me

29:55

there. I don't have a private jet yet.

29:57

A minimalist private jet. I'm going to. gonna

30:00

buy a BMW and then sell it on

30:02

eBay. Get my BMW out of the storage

30:04

locker. And

30:07

so we did a whole episode

30:10

about this, about home ownership versus home renting. You can

30:12

check that out. It's episode 345, Malabama. If

30:16

you could put that link to that in the

30:18

show notes. But before we move on to our

30:20

right here, right now segment, I wanted to read

30:22

some other folks. They answered this question on Patreon.

30:25

What's one thing you'd rather rent than own? And

30:27

what's one thing you'd rather own than rent? You

30:30

want to read a few of those for us, Bama? Yeah, I

30:32

loved what Shai said. She said, I don't

30:34

like renting because I value autonomy and I

30:36

don't want to have to follow someone else's

30:38

rules in order to borrow something. I'm all

30:40

about owning my own stuff because it means

30:42

I can do what I want with it

30:44

when I want and let go of it

30:46

when I'm done. A

30:48

lot of the topics that popped up, a

30:50

lot of people talked about books. Tim said,

30:52

I would rather own books. I know I'll

30:54

want to make all sorts of pencil, underline

30:56

and notes in the margins. But

30:59

Heather said, I prefer renting books. We borrow

31:01

around 30 books a week from

31:03

the library to read with the kids. You know,

31:05

that's fascinating to me because I think I'm closer

31:07

to Heather. I do own some books, but most

31:10

of the books that I own, I own for

31:12

a temporary period of time and I pass it

31:14

on to someone else. Yeah, of course. Lisa, you

31:16

were talking before we started recording about you sort

31:19

of are doing this with some friends now where

31:21

you're mailing them books. Yeah, a friend reached out

31:23

to me before his surgery. He

31:25

was having hernia surgery. He said, hey, can you recommend

31:27

a couple of good books for during my recovery? I

31:29

said, I'll one up you for the same cost of

31:32

me sending you one book. I'm going

31:34

to send you the last six to eight books that I

31:36

loved in a priority mailbox. I'll ship them to you right

31:38

now. And that just started this

31:40

thing where each time the stack is five or

31:42

six books, we reach out and our group

31:45

of friends, all right, who is looking for something new to

31:47

read. Great, pass it to you. And then then you pass

31:49

it and you pass it. I also do the library, but

31:51

it was a great way for me to get rid of

31:53

books that I didn't think I was going to read a

31:56

second time. You know, some books you will read again. people

32:00

use things I read again because there's different little

32:02

triggers that remind you you pick up something new

32:04

each time and it's just a good I

32:06

feel like books that make my heart feel

32:08

good. I keep because I want to reread

32:10

and touch in with that. But any sports

32:12

books or anything I'm reading took them.

32:15

So sharing those books has been really fun.

32:17

Now you have a new conversation when you get

32:20

on your monthly FaceTime or your phone call of

32:22

like, did you finish it? How did you like

32:24

it? What's your favorite part? I couldn't believe this

32:26

story. Now you're also engaging in a dialogue that's

32:28

bringing you closer and giving you almost

32:30

like you saw the same movie. But

32:33

books are very different to read because

32:35

everyone has their own picture that they're

32:37

picturing, right? Your imagination is more peaked

32:39

when you read. TK, does any

32:41

of that resonate with you because you are

32:43

a book lover. He recently did the he's

32:45

doing something on Patreon called Thursday Conversations. Book

32:47

Soccer. Book Admirer. And

32:50

he the first person he interviewed interviewing

32:52

interesting people. It's like eavesdropping on a

32:54

FaceTime call between two interesting people. The

32:57

first person he did one of these

32:59

conversations with was his wife. And

33:02

I think what she said to him was, I

33:04

feel like if we did had a house that

33:06

was nothing but books and just a few cushions,

33:09

then you would be perfectly happy. So there's

33:11

something about books that speak to you and

33:14

book ownership that speaks to you in a

33:16

way you don't even feel attached to them

33:18

so much as it's almost like setting up

33:20

an ambiance for you. Yeah, books are a

33:22

mystical experience for me. I literally hug my

33:24

books and I love hugging a book more

33:26

than I love hugging a person. I

33:29

truly love my books. I

33:31

also don't borrow them because I need

33:34

to reserve the right to destroy that book.

33:38

I tell people don't give me that book because

33:40

it's not my job to preserve the book. It's

33:42

my job. I imagine you burning books in your

33:44

house now. I'm destroying them. Oh no, don't ever

33:46

do that. I cry if I

33:48

saw a book burning. See you writing notes, right?

33:51

Yeah, yeah, it's my job. When I pick up

33:53

a book, my goal is to transform my soul.

33:55

It's not to make sure the book looks the

33:57

same. It's to make sure that when I'm done

33:59

with I'm not the same and in

34:01

order to get there I might need to destroy

34:03

that book or do things to the book that

34:05

make you feel like I destroyed it I need

34:07

to take notes. I need to dog-gear the pages

34:10

I need to underline and I'm a very ridiculous

34:12

underliner But I go back and I reread everything

34:14

that I underline and I may take notes Not

34:16

every book is equally destroyed in that way

34:18

Some books look pretty pristine, but I need

34:21

that freedom to do it And so ownership

34:23

is what makes that possible if you loan

34:26

me a book or I rented one I'd be

34:28

paying fines all the time I'd be losing friends all

34:30

the time and I just don't want that level of

34:32

responsibility If you like if you rented a car, but

34:34

you had to smash out the windows every time You're

34:37

gonna get barred from every car rental

34:39

place eventually. Yeah. Yeah We

34:41

had a couple other comments here about housing,

34:43

Malabama. Yeah, and said I love owning our

34:46

own home I get to decide how I want

34:48

to take care of it and love the freedom

34:50

in the stability of home ownership We

34:52

worked hard to get this place and we are thankful to

34:54

have it Nastasia said I tend to

34:57

live in a dwelling for two to three

34:59

years at a time and move cities and

35:01

states about every ten years While

35:03

I love the idea of having my own

35:05

home the maintenance and feeling stuck to one

35:07

location feels too overwhelming to me I prefer

35:09

to rent places that look and feel like something

35:11

I would own and have more freedom to get

35:14

up and go wherever I want now

35:16

if I was able to own a vacation home somewhere

35:18

and I didn't have to take care of it And

35:20

someone else managed it or cleaned it, but I got

35:23

to design and choose the location that would be nice

35:25

Miss out that you're describing renting a house

35:32

If I'm able to own a vacation home

35:34

somewhere where I didn't have to take care

35:36

of it and someone else managed it and

35:38

cleaned It that's an Airbnb, which is awesome

35:41

The good news is you have access

35:43

to the RBO or Airbnb now

35:45

I totally get the the desire to own

35:48

it maybe as an asset that you know

35:50

You're you're using it to rent out to

35:52

other people to make some sort

35:54

of income But that comes with a lot

35:56

of burden as well. Yeah, Lisa. You've

35:58

owned houses. You've you've been a landlord

36:01

and there's a lot of headache involved in

36:03

that. There is. There is a lot of

36:05

work. It is constant and mother nature plays a

36:07

big role. You know, every time something happens, you're

36:09

like, earthquake, what have you? You have to scope

36:11

everything out. Is there a new crack? What do

36:14

we have to worry about? Like there's always weather

36:16

is scary when you're a homeowner. All

36:19

right. So for both of you, because we got L.A.

36:21

and New York. How do

36:23

you feel about the equity argument? How do

36:25

you cope with that? Because both of you

36:27

live in cities where it's like the amount

36:29

you're paying every month for rent, you

36:32

add that up over a couple of years.

36:34

That's a lot of money gone. Yes. That's

36:36

not going towards equity. Like, how do

36:38

you reconcile that? Part of that is I

36:40

think a third of my mortgage goes to

36:42

taxes, which is wild. So you also have

36:44

to recognize that you don't actually own the

36:46

home, even if you own it outright. So

36:48

two things. I don't own the home. The

36:50

bank owns the home and I give them

36:52

money every single month. But let's say that

36:54

I came across the windfall and all of

36:56

a sudden I just paid it off immediately.

36:58

I still don't really own the home. Right.

37:01

Good luck owning the home, but not paying

37:03

taxes for a year or two years. You're

37:05

still paying rent to the government for having

37:07

that land. You're paying

37:10

it every single month. You're paying it quarterly or

37:12

however you pay it. So that's another level, by

37:14

the way, at which ownership is an illusion. Right.

37:16

That's exactly that's true for your car, too. That's

37:19

right. Good luck. You can own it in

37:21

the sense that you just can't drive it anywhere. Right.

37:23

You could own it and have it housed on your

37:25

property. Like there is a neighbor of mine who has

37:27

a car that's up on blocks. It looks like it's

37:30

been there for three decades. I don't

37:32

I doubt they're paying any taxes on it, but

37:34

it's just it's like the biggest paperweight I've ever

37:36

seen. Uh huh. And

37:38

so and then also owning a

37:40

car in a place like New York City

37:43

is it's cost prohibitive, right? It's a thousand dollars

37:45

a month to park a car. Right. Oh, my. So why do

37:47

you want to have a car? You're going to spend

37:49

more on the parking space than you are on the

37:51

car. And let's remember when you move it and you go

37:53

into a lot in Lower East Side, it's $50

37:55

for three hours. So now you're

37:58

moving your car from your thousand dollar a month. to

38:00

go use it in a $50 a day spot or $75.

38:04

It's always just better to take the Uber or the cab

38:06

or the train or however you wanna get there. City

38:09

bikes. And it was

38:11

funny, because during the pandemic, a bunch of

38:13

people in my building bought cars because they

38:15

were offering such cheap parking. And

38:17

I was like, you know, this is so temporary. And by

38:19

the way, you love driving in the city now because there's

38:22

no one here. But once the cars

38:24

come back, you're not gonna wanna, and now they're all stuck

38:26

with these cars. Well, like I got this car. But you

38:28

know, to answer you, I feel the same. You

38:30

never really own the home. Also

38:32

remember, earthquake insurance, fire insurance, all

38:34

of these different things, believe it

38:37

or not, even though I'm

38:39

paying rent in the most expensive city in

38:41

New York City and I'm in this crazy

38:43

beautiful building, I am still spending less money

38:45

than when I owned my home here in

38:48

California. I had my mortgage, I had

38:50

my HOA, I had all of my insurance, all

38:52

of my taxes. And you would think, and it

38:54

seems silly, sure, you're not getting anything at the

38:56

end of the day, but

38:59

if something changes in the neighborhood, which did in

39:01

mind in Studio City where I live, that asset

39:03

that you thought was gaining value, gaining value, gaining

39:05

value, now comes down a bit in value and

39:07

you realize, oh, I just broke even at the

39:10

end of the day, I actually rented this place

39:12

the last 15 years. That's

39:14

right, and that's really what it is,

39:16

ultimately, by the time we're on our

39:18

death beds, it was all rented anyway.

39:21

And whatever legal arrangement you prefer, and

39:23

that's really what it is, it's a

39:25

preference. I prefer to have between now

39:27

and then, so be it. But

39:30

also recognizing that renting, at least for

39:33

me, is paying for the

39:35

ability to walk away whenever I want

39:37

to walk away. And

39:39

that is worth more, that freedom is

39:41

worth more to me than

39:44

the so-called peace of mind of

39:46

so-called ownership. What I like about

39:48

the way you two are talking

39:50

about this is in

39:53

contrast to a lot of

39:55

conventional conversations on financial literacy,

39:57

it's not just about the math. Well,

40:00

Well, here's the decision that's gonna reduce your debt,

40:02

or here's the decision that's gonna allow you to

40:04

have an extra few hundred dollars a month to

40:06

devote to your 401k. You're

40:09

talking about the other kinds of costs,

40:11

not just the maintenance costs and the

40:13

transaction costs, but what are the opportunity

40:15

costs? What are the psychological costs?

40:17

What are the costs to my relationships

40:19

and so on? And each

40:21

person has to decide that for themselves. That's

40:23

subjective. It's not just a matter of the

40:26

math. What are the costs which when you

40:28

pay, really ruin your day?

40:30

And what are those costs you don't mind paying?

40:32

What are those areas where you don't mind taking responsibility?

40:34

And what are those areas where you say, no, I

40:36

need the freedom to be lazy here. I need

40:38

to be the freedom to be the person that's

40:40

not getting the call at two o'clock in the morning

40:43

when that thing goes wrong. And

40:45

that's all very subjective. And I can

40:47

tell you when renting doesn't make sense.

40:49

Remember, I mean, I grew up in

40:51

a relatively impoverished neighborhood and everyone went

40:53

to the rent-to-own stores. In fact, it

40:55

was called rent-to-own. Remember those? Yes. Pennsylvania

40:57

and Ohio had tons of them. Furniture,

41:00

TV stands, TV's like, and

41:02

they were busy all the time. The

41:05

reason I want to rent something is to not own

41:07

it. Not rent-to-own. I want to rent not to own.

41:10

And that'd be a great title for this

41:12

episode, maybe. Rent not to own. Because

41:14

when you rent the coat

41:17

that you wore in here today, it's a

41:19

beautiful coat, but you don't have to own

41:21

it. You don't have to worry about it.

41:24

If you decide to own it, that is

41:26

great. But the interesting thing was the markup

41:28

on the coffee table or couch or TV

41:31

at these rent-to-own places, it's a

41:33

terrible idea to rent-to-own there because

41:35

what you're doing is you're spending

41:37

sometimes 1,000% interest when

41:41

it adds all up with the penalties and

41:44

everything else in order to buy a couch.

41:46

The couch is $300, ends up costing you

41:48

over $1,000. You're

41:50

like, why? Because these places

41:52

are often predatory and they prey on

41:55

people who don't have the means to

41:57

buy the thing up front and they

41:59

take advantage. of their desires, of

42:01

their impulses. It's the reason I have

42:03

so many problems with advertiser culture, right?

42:06

Because it preys on people and

42:08

convinces them to have an impulse

42:10

to desire something that they

42:13

must have right now and then

42:15

they provide the so-called solution. Malabama,

42:18

let's wrap up with a couple hobbies

42:20

that people mentioned. Sarah had a comment

42:22

for us. Yeah, this surprised me. She

42:24

said, I wish my husband would rent

42:26

tools and machinery rather than own everything.

42:29

But in the spirit of minimalism, I

42:31

understand and accept his desire to do

42:33

so. I think that's great because, so Sarah, what she

42:35

is saying is, you know what? I

42:37

don't want to own any freaking tools. And

42:40

you're right. You owning tools, Sarah, if

42:42

you're not going to use them, total waste of time, waste

42:44

of space. But for your husband, ownership

42:46

of those tools does a few things. One

42:48

is if he's using them regularly, it means

42:50

he has regular access to them. And maybe

42:52

if you're renting them, you don't have that

42:54

same sort of access. So if that access

42:56

is important and it requires ownership, great. But

42:58

also living in a big city like Los

43:00

Angeles or New York, you often have access

43:02

to things that you don't need to own.

43:05

And that's pretty awesome, too. If you want

43:07

to go to a sauna, you don't have

43:09

to have one in your apartment. You

43:11

can go down the street and go to

43:13

a sauna. You don't have to have a

43:15

second bedroom. You've turned into a gym in

43:17

your home. Maybe there's a shared gym in

43:19

your apartment or you go to a gym

43:21

somewhere else. Nikki had something for us. Yeah,

43:24

she said, I have purchased items for

43:26

new activities that I just knew I'd

43:28

stick with this time. But

43:30

that excitement eventually fizzles out. Now I'd

43:32

rather rent or borrow things at first

43:34

to see if it's something I truly

43:36

enjoy and will actually maintain.

43:39

Imagine how many pickleball rackets right now are

43:41

going unused because someone bought it and they

43:43

wanted to try it out. And then it's

43:45

like, I don't like this. But if we

43:47

could have rented it, could have tried it

43:49

out beforehand, you probably would've been better off.

43:52

I will say this year I did buckle

43:54

and I bought a set of

43:56

ski boots and a helmet because I ski

43:58

a lot, but I'm always renting. So I

44:00

realized I still don't want to own the skis and

44:02

have to transport them and everything else. But the

44:05

boots I shouldn't be sharing in the

44:07

helmet, I shouldn't be sharing. Now I'm

44:09

like germ wise, I'm ready, but I

44:11

waited three years and told myself until

44:13

you ski more than five times a

44:15

season, it's not worth you

44:18

buying a helmet and boots. Yes. Now

44:20

I'm going more than five pounds. But

44:22

I remember being, when I

44:24

was moving from Huntington Beach to LA, I

44:27

had roller blades, bike,

44:29

skateboard, tennis racket. I

44:32

did the same. Every activity I thought

44:34

I would stick with, I made one

44:36

great garage sale. Yes. A really good garage

44:38

sale. If

44:43

there's something you're not sure about, it often

44:45

makes sense. If you have access to renting

44:47

it beforehand, let me try it

44:49

out. And you know what? It might even be

44:51

slightly more expensive in that one transaction because renting

44:53

a tennis racket and then buying one later means

44:56

you doubled up on the cost. But think about

44:58

all the money you save. You know what? I

45:00

tried out tennis and after the

45:02

few lessons, I just didn't like it. Now

45:04

you're not stuck with owning that tennis racket

45:06

and you're not forced to sell it either.

45:08

But I agree. There are some things that it

45:11

makes sense to own, whether it's your ski

45:13

boots or your helmet or the underwear. I didn't

45:15

rent the underwear that I'm wearing right now. We're

45:17

not doing that. We're not doing that. We cannot

45:19

rent. Yeah, we're not doing that. By the

45:21

way, a life hack on how to rent a

45:24

book without renting one in case it's

45:26

not in the library. If there's some book you're thinking about and

45:28

you're really on the fence, that's a

45:30

feeling I can't relate to, by the way. If I think I

45:32

want the book, I just get it. But if there's some book

45:34

you're on the fence about, go

45:36

on YouTube or go on Spotify, whatever,

45:39

and Google the author and listen to a

45:41

podcast interview where they talk about that book. And

45:43

then check in with your body when you're

45:45

done and say, do I want more

45:47

of this or do I want less of

45:50

this? If you want more, go ahead and get the book.

45:52

If you got everything you needed from that interview and you

45:54

don't want any more, you know what you need to think

45:56

about the book. I like that.

45:59

What do you say, Ann's new book? is out by the

46:01

way. It's called The Life Back Four

46:03

More From Loss to Less Is More.

46:05

We're just getting started, y'all. We've got

46:08

a bundle of caller questions on the

46:10

private podcast. But first, real quick, for

46:12

right here, right now, here's one thing

46:14

that's going on in the life of

46:16

The Minimalist. The Everything Tour continues. Lisa

46:18

Ann, it's the 10th anniversary for our

46:20

second book, Everything That Remains. Wow.

46:22

Ryan and I- The anniversary

46:25

already. Wow. We did a 100-city

46:27

tour with that first book, 119 events back in 2014.

46:29

We're just doing,

46:32

I think it's seven events this year,

46:34

one a month. We still have three

46:36

left. It's Fresno this weekend. We'll be

46:38

in San Diego and San Francisco. There

46:40

are a few tickets left. It's our

46:42

first free tour since 2015. So

46:45

you can grab your tickets while

46:47

they're still available at theminimalists.com. We'd

46:50

love to see you there. Before we

46:52

get back to our callers, Malabama, what

46:54

else you got for us? Here's a minimalist insight from

46:56

one of our listeners. Hi,

46:59

minimalists. My name is Gloria, and I'm

47:01

from Sanford, Florida, and I am a

47:03

Patreon subscriber. Thank you so much

47:05

for all the work that you do in this

47:07

podcast. Over the last nine months, I

47:09

have decluttered about 3,000 pounds of

47:12

items. I like to say

47:14

I decluttered Gloria as I have found

47:16

myself underneath all the false identities and

47:18

clutter. During this process, I

47:20

have let go of so many other things

47:22

as well. Dr. John

47:24

Deloni once aptly pointed out to a caller

47:26

on his show that resentment

47:28

is learned behavior. This

47:30

helped me to identify the resentment in my own

47:32

heart and to help me let it go. I

47:35

realized I had learned resentment from my mother,

47:38

who resents my father and her own

47:40

parents. She learned it from her mother.

47:43

I saw the damage it does to one soul

47:45

and heart when we do not let go of

47:47

resentment. My 15 year

47:49

relationship with my fiancé has done

47:51

a 180 since healing and letting

47:53

go of this damaging

47:55

mentality. I encourage

47:58

anyone wrestling with resentment to

48:00

look at your own life and see who

48:02

did you learn it from. Gloria,

48:05

thank you so much for that deep comment. Wow!

48:08

3,000 pounds of stuff, but also

48:11

more important, letting go of that

48:13

resentment. For anyone else who has

48:15

a listener tip or insight about

48:17

this episode or any other episode,

48:19

leave a comment on Patreon or

48:21

YouTube or better yet, send a

48:23

voice memo to podcastattheminimalists.com so we

48:25

can feature your beautiful voice on

48:27

the show. All right, that's the

48:29

first 25% of

48:32

episode 442. We'll see you

48:34

on Patreon for the full maximal

48:36

edition with Lisa Ann, which includes

48:38

answers to a bunch more questions.

48:40

Questions like, what are the minimalist

48:42

favorite brands of t-shirts? And

48:45

I keep trying to make friends and

48:47

go on dates, but I end up

48:49

being ghosted. What am I doing wrong?

48:53

And is it considered cheating

48:55

if my husband watches pornography? Should

48:58

I leave him if he keeps

49:00

watching? Plus a million more questions and

49:02

simple living segments over on the Minimalist

49:04

Private Podcast. We also have an outstanding

49:07

home tour from one of our listeners

49:09

this week on Patreon. Visit patreon.com/the minimalist

49:11

or click the link down in the

49:14

description to subscribe and get your personal

49:16

link so that our weekly maximal episodes

49:18

play in your favorite podcast app. You

49:21

also gain access to all of our

49:23

podcast archives all the way back to

49:25

episode 001. That's

49:29

right, all of our archives are over there on

49:31

Patreon. By the way, Patreon is now offering

49:33

free trials, so if you'd like to test

49:35

drive our private podcast, you can join for

49:37

seven days for free. Big thanks

49:39

to Lisa Ann for joining us today.

49:41

Check out her new radio show. It's

49:43

called Better Haves. You can find it

49:45

on Sirius XM channel 99. It's called

49:48

Raw Comedy. Her most recent

49:50

book is The Life Back. Four more

49:52

from loss to less is

49:54

more. And that is our minimal episode

49:56

for today. If you leave here with

49:59

just One message. Let

50:01

it be this. Love people

50:04

and use things. Because

50:06

the opposite never works. Thanks

50:09

for listening, y'all. We'll see you next time. Peace.

50:13

Every little thing you think

50:15

that you need. Every

50:18

little thing you think that

50:20

you need. Every

50:23

little thing that you see

50:25

in your greed. Oh, I

50:27

bet that you'll be fine

50:29

without it.