0:01

Every

0:11

little thing you think

0:14

that you need Every

0:25

little thing you think that

0:27

you need Every

0:30

little thing that's just feeding

0:32

your greed Oh, I bet

0:34

that you'll be fine without

0:36

it You're

0:39

listening to The Minimalist Podcast with

0:42

Joshua Fields-Milburn and T.K. Coleman Thank

0:44

you, Malabama. Hello, everybody. Coming up on

0:46

this free public minimal episode, a caller

0:48

has a question about wanting to spend

0:51

her money on two different things, but

0:53

she's having trouble making the right decision.

0:55

And then we've got a lightning round

0:57

question about our favorite pleasures that money

0:59

can't buy. That's followed by our right

1:02

here, right now segment and a listener

1:04

tip for you. You can check out

1:06

the full maximal edition of episode 447.

1:11

That's the full episode where we answer five times

1:13

the questions and we dive

1:15

deep into several simple living

1:17

segments. That private podcast episode

1:19

is out right now at

1:21

patreon.com/The Minimalists. Your support keeps

1:23

our podcast 100% advertisement

1:26

free because sing along

1:28

at home, y'all. Advertisements suck. Let's

1:31

start with our callers. If you have a question

1:33

or a comment for our show, we would love

1:35

to hear from you. Give us a call. Our

1:37

phone number is 406-219-7839 or simply email a voice

1:40

recording right from your phone to

1:45

podcast at theminimalists.com. Our first

1:47

question today is from Monica.

1:49

Hi, guys. My name is

1:51

Monica. I'm a 25-year-old from Munich, Germany. I

1:56

have a question about money and minimalism. Or

1:59

maybe I should ask you a question. about non-object

2:01

and minimalism. Right

2:03

now there are two things I could do that

2:05

would maybe enhance the quality of my

2:07

life, but they are both really expensive.

2:10

I'll give you the examples. I

2:12

could get my eyes lasered, which would be

2:15

4,800 euros, and I could get a tattoo. The artist I chose

2:20

wants 1,700 euros. The

2:23

thing is, I'm not blind without getting

2:25

my eyes lasered because of course have

2:28

glasses. And having a

2:30

beautiful tattoo of mountains on my forearm would

2:32

be nice, especially when I can't

2:34

make the time to go to the mountains in my day-to-day

2:36

life. But is it worth it? Am

2:39

I too attached to my money? I have

2:42

to add, I'm still a student and will be

2:44

for two and a half more years, but

2:46

I have saved up a bunch of money over

2:48

the past years because that's important to me. But

2:51

what do I do with that money if I can't seem to

2:54

spend it? Am I clinging to it? Where

2:57

am I intentional about spending it?

3:00

I have to admit that over the past year

3:02

I've spent way too much money on small nice-to-have

3:04

things and lost the

3:06

minimalist mindset because I went through

3:08

a hard time emotionally. So

3:11

maybe I'm now a little too hard on myself?

3:14

Your thoughts would be appreciated. Bye!

3:16

TK, I

3:19

love this phrase, non-objects, or

3:21

we might call them non-things.

3:24

But there's obviously some decision clutter

3:26

here. One of my favorite maxims of

3:28

all time that I got from you

3:30

is the dreams don't

3:33

come true decisions do. And

3:36

now Monica is obviously struggling to decide between

3:38

two different things, although I would argue it's

3:40

more than two things. But let's start with

3:43

a simple question. If we were to distill her question

3:45

down into a bite-sized chunk,

3:47

it would be how do you decide

3:50

between two things when

3:52

you have the money for only

3:54

one? You first

3:56

begin by recognizing that the problem isn't

3:59

that have two options and

4:01

you can only afford one. Because

4:03

if you had 10 options, you

4:05

have a difficulty with an 11th one that

4:07

you can afford, right? So if I said,

4:10

here's the money for the second option, now

4:12

you can have them both. Well, where did

4:14

the two options that are on the table

4:16

come from? They came from your imagination, they

4:19

came from your observation of circumstances, they came

4:21

from different ideas you were able to form

4:23

of things that could enhance your life and

4:25

the same creative space, the same area

4:28

of life that gave you the idea for

4:30

the tattoo or for the getting the eye

4:32

surgery, that can give you a third or

4:35

fourth idea. So there will always be trade

4:37

offs in life. There will always be things

4:39

that you will have to forego in order

4:41

to make something that you want happen. And

4:43

you want to start by recognizing that there

4:46

is no alternative space you can occupy that's

4:48

going to free you from that. If it

4:50

wasn't this, it would be something

4:52

else. Now that doesn't answer your question. That

4:54

doesn't solve your problem. And that's okay, we

4:56

can give more than that. But when you

4:59

when you accept that, it gives

5:01

you this sense of being free

5:03

from looking at your situation with

5:05

a kind of resentment towards your

5:07

circumstances. And when you're free from

5:09

that, you can just have fun thinking

5:11

critically and creatively about what you need. That's the

5:14

first step. There's an interesting decision that's being made

5:16

here because it's not for a physical thing. It's

5:18

not like, should I buy this car, put a

5:20

down payment on a house? Should I buy this

5:22

dress or this pair of jeans? There

5:25

are and it's also not an experience. I mean,

5:27

it sort of is right there's but there's an

5:29

outcome that we want here. When you have an

5:31

experience, you're not going there for the outcome. You're

5:34

not going to the movies and buying your ticket

5:36

and waiting in line so you can get to

5:38

the end of the movie. But when

5:40

you are buying eye surgery,

5:42

laser surgery for your eyes, or you're

5:44

buying a tattoo, my wife just got,

5:47

she has tattoos all over, she just

5:49

got a new tattoo this past week.

5:52

And the experience itself, she's sitting

5:54

in a chair for eight hours while

5:56

someone is poking needles into her arm.

5:58

Yeah, it's the engine. justifies the mean.

6:00

She's not going there for the mean, so

6:02

it's not really about the experience. Although that

6:04

is a part of it, there

6:06

is an outcome. But it's not the physical

6:09

outcome, like I'm buying a pair of jeans

6:11

or I'm buying a new shirt and I'm

6:13

trying to decide between this shirt or this

6:15

shirt. And so where Monica is

6:17

right now, she's asking some questions about

6:20

the trade-offs. So Thomas Sulk quote obviously

6:22

comes to mind here. There are no

6:24

solutions, there are only trade-offs. And

6:26

I wish I had a really easy answer for Monica.

6:28

She's like, you know what, obviously the tattoo makes

6:31

much more sense for you, right? It's

6:33

the better choice. And here are the

6:35

17 reasons why that tattoo is a

6:37

better choice for you. She

6:40

asked a question though. She said, is it worth it? And

6:43

I think that question uncovers

6:45

this other possibility. What

6:48

can I do with this money? Obviously I

6:50

can get the eye lasering, I can get

6:52

the tattoo, or I

6:54

can get something else. Is this

6:57

the best use of this money?

7:00

So there might be a third option. No,

7:02

I'd rather put that money toward X, Y,

7:04

or Z. Or maybe

7:07

I'd just like to save it. Maybe my decision

7:09

is to not do anything

7:11

with the money right now. And that's

7:13

really where this decision clutter gets

7:15

in the picture. Maybe you can unpack

7:17

that for us TK. I love the way you

7:20

just said that because some of my best decisions

7:22

have not come from a place of me saying,

7:24

here's what I'm going to do. They've come from

7:26

a place of me saying, here's what I'm not

7:28

going to do. I'm not gonna decide on this

7:30

for the next two months. Or I'm not gonna

7:32

decide on this until the end of the week.

7:34

I'm gonna sleep on it. I'm gonna give myself

7:36

some time. Because sometimes what we need is more

7:38

information, but sometimes what we need is time.

7:41

And thankfully the options that she set

7:43

forth, neither of them seem to

7:45

be necessary. That doesn't make them unimportant, but neither

7:47

of them are the kind of thing where she's

7:49

gotta decide by the end of the day, by

7:51

the end of the week, or by the end

7:53

of the month. And it may just be the

7:55

case that if you don't have a hell yes

7:57

on the table, if you don't have a decision

7:59

that is... compelling to you that wild

8:01

horses can't hold you back, then that may

8:03

be an invitation from your heart to sit

8:05

with it for a while and not rush

8:08

into it. You want to make the kinds

8:10

of decisions that you either have

8:12

to make because life compels you to make them

8:14

or because your heart compels you to make them.

8:16

You don't want to make decisions because, well, I

8:19

just got to get rid of the tension of

8:21

not knowing what I want to do. Maybe you

8:23

don't know what to do for a reason, but

8:26

because, and that reason may be because your heart

8:28

hasn't really settled on what it truly wants yet.

8:30

Yes, and so sometimes we can make

8:32

an impulsive decision. And obviously that's what

8:34

Monica is trying to avoid here, just

8:36

buying a tattoo on impulse. I

8:38

had a friend who in high school got

8:41

a little tattoo of Marvin the Martian on his

8:43

arm the day he turned 18. And

8:46

I was like, oh, that's an impulse decision.

8:49

I don't think he's wrong or bad for

8:51

doing that. But I wonder now, now

8:53

that we're in our forties, does he look back

8:55

at that little tattoo and he's like, oh,

8:58

maybe I should have done something more intentional. Not

9:00

that I shouldn't have got a tattoo, but why

9:03

did I pick that when I was 18 and I did

9:06

it out of this, this

9:08

impulse and this desire,

9:11

this thirst, right? And

9:13

so sometimes we have a thirst that guides

9:15

us and that type of

9:17

desire is not unhealthy, right? I've got this glass

9:20

of water here in front of me. And

9:22

if I'm thirsty, I'll take a sip of

9:24

this water. However, if I'm

9:26

so thirsty and I don't have this

9:28

glass of water in front of me,

9:30

I am more susceptible to contaminated water.

9:33

So if I'm walking down the street and I'm just dying

9:35

of thirst and oh my God, all of

9:37

a sudden I lose all rationality. I see

9:39

some water and a little puddle in the

9:42

gutter. I was like, oh, that

9:44

looks really tantalizing. But

9:47

I also know logically, if I step back,

9:49

wait a minute, if I drink that,

9:51

the outcome might be really negative for me. I

9:53

might experience a whole lot of pain on the

9:55

other side of that. And so when we make

9:57

a decision about anything, I'm not going to do

9:59

anything. any of these things, I

10:01

wouldn't personally get a tattoo or the

10:04

laser eye surgery. One is I don't

10:06

need the laser eye surgery personally. And

10:08

in tattoos, I look at like, what's

10:10

the potential downside of that, right? I

10:12

think tattoos are amazing. Like I said,

10:14

my wife has a ton of them

10:16

all over the place. I think especially

10:19

when they're well done, they're beautiful, they're

10:21

an artistic expression of what's in

10:23

the inside of you and putting it on the

10:25

outside of you. We can do that through other

10:27

ways as well. We can do that through our

10:29

outfits and we can do it through

10:32

our interactions. We can do it with our personality.

10:35

But also what is the downside?

10:38

What's the trade off of these purchases?

10:40

What's the potential downside if I

10:43

spend money on lasering my eyes?

10:45

What's the potential downside? Well, one

10:47

basic downside is I'm giving up

10:49

money that I otherwise would

10:52

have to spend elsewhere. That's a downside.

10:54

But also is there a negative consequence

10:56

for consuming something? For me, I used

10:58

to buy cars and when I bought

11:00

them, I would obviously just

11:03

put zero dollars down or as little down

11:05

as I could. And then I would get

11:07

the car home and now I have 60 months

11:09

or 72 months or 83

11:12

months worth of payments in front of me. The

11:14

upside is I got this brand new car and it

11:16

has that new car smell. But

11:18

the downside is there's a negative

11:20

consequence on the other side of

11:22

this. Now future me for the

11:24

next five, six, seven years is

11:26

responsible for this decision that I

11:28

made today. And

11:31

so she brings up a good point. Monica

11:33

is asking, am I clinging to

11:35

this money now or am I

11:38

being intentional? And there's a fine line

11:40

there. You are asking

11:42

some questions that indicate that you are being

11:44

intentional. But once you've gotten to a decision,

11:46

if you then don't act

11:49

out of fear, well that

11:51

in and of itself is a type

11:53

of decision. I'm deciding to do nothing.

11:57

I think that's the heart of it right there, the

11:59

question about. intentionality. I think every question

12:01

has a body and every question has

12:03

a heart. The body of the

12:05

question refers to the content that you're asking

12:08

about but the heart of the question is

12:10

what are the cries of the heart being

12:12

conveyed through the expression of that particular dilemma

12:14

and the body of this question is like

12:16

hey man the eye surgery or the tattoos

12:18

and the body is important the body is

12:20

essential but the heart of the question is

12:23

what am I really doing here? What

12:25

kind of relationship with money do I really want?

12:28

Am I being intentional or am I just

12:30

reacting to some fears I have

12:32

based on past patterns of behavior? When I look

12:35

back on my past I've got some days

12:37

where I spent a lot of money frivolously

12:39

and if I had the chance to do

12:41

it over again I wouldn't do that and

12:43

so I've developed a habit of saving in

12:45

response to that but what am I

12:47

really saving for? I'm saving

12:49

myself from my past self

12:51

which would spend frivolously but

12:54

what am I saving for? Have I really thought

12:56

this through? What do I really want?

12:58

Am I saving money so that I can have freedom

13:00

and more options later on? Am I saving money so

13:02

that I can have the flexibility to be able to

13:04

quit a job and survive for a few months if

13:07

I ever need to? Am I saving for an emergency?

13:09

Am I saving because I want to own a house

13:11

or there's something specific I want to buy? Here

13:14

I am experiencing the benefits of

13:16

having saved and now I've

13:18

got some options on the table and I don't know

13:20

what to do with respect to those options. What

13:23

should I do? I don't think this

13:25

is about what decision you should make.

13:27

I think this is about what mindset you

13:29

should cultivate so that you can always be

13:32

clear with yourself about what you really want

13:34

and need regardless of what the options are

13:36

and I think the real question to ask

13:38

yourself and only you have the answer here

13:40

is why save? I

13:43

like that you're saving but saving is

13:45

a little bit like someone saying you

13:47

know what I'm not proud of the fact that

13:49

I have a history of eating that food because

13:51

of the bad effects it had on me I'm

13:54

gonna stop doing that. Okay that's

13:56

cool that's good but what

13:58

are you gonna stop doing that for? And.

14:00

What are you gonna do instead? You

14:02

gotta have a positive goal that you're

14:05

working towards. You don't want saving to

14:07

be. I'm gonna stop spending money frivolously

14:09

you wanted to be. I'm going to

14:11

use the money as a tool to

14:13

intensely create a kind of life that

14:15

I what what is. That's because the.

14:18

Decision about the tattoo and the decision about

14:20

the eye glasses or the surgery is a

14:22

really only gonna be meaningful when it's contextualize

14:24

by it's ability to support a kind of

14:26

life. You decide you want to use money

14:28

as a tool for the heart of what

14:30

you're saying here, Tj is what do you

14:32

want. And forward ask Monica

14:35

this question she my say something

14:37

like happiness or I want and

14:39

what are you sure say that

14:41

the I want to the tattoo

14:43

I want the eye surgery but

14:45

the thing you want is never

14:47

the thing you want. You want

14:49

the perceived happiness that you bully

14:51

youth is on the other side

14:53

of that thing or that experience

14:55

or maybe these know on objects

14:57

here rates you want that pleasant

14:59

feeling so cold positive feelings whether

15:01

it's happiness or p sorts equanimity

15:03

or joy. Or excitements you

15:05

want that. And. So.

15:08

Are these the things that are most

15:10

likely going to give you that ceilings

15:13

and an even behind that. Is

15:15

that actually what you want?

15:17

Or. Is it what you think you want? As

15:20

your culture, your peers your

15:22

community prescribed of you should

15:24

feel this way. And therefore

15:26

here's how I'm going to

15:28

feel this way. Here's I'm

15:30

going to acquire: Externally.

15:34

The. Get something that's already going on

15:36

inside. Hear nothing wrong with the

15:38

tattoos but the tattoo as and

15:40

going to make you happy. Happiness

15:42

is already in here. right?

15:44

Here right now. The. Tattoos

15:47

can amplify who you are. The

15:49

eye surgery can make it easier

15:51

for you to see. That seems

15:53

like the more practical option of

15:55

the to put. Just because something

15:57

is practical doesn't mean that it

15:59

is always. The best decision

16:01

either. And times living

16:04

is about being impractical. That's.

16:06

Right and what I hear and that question

16:09

of is it worth it. It's

16:11

clearly not do I want it because you

16:13

do one it But is it worth it

16:15

is a question of value judgment. Is

16:17

it okay for me to spend that kind of

16:19

money on the things that I? what. Is.

16:22

It right for me to do something. About

16:25

which arguments can be made. Things.

16:27

That perhaps art and justifiable to another.

16:30

Is that all right? My. Be okay to

16:32

do that. And these are the sorts of questions

16:34

that can only be answered. By. Stepping

16:36

back from the particulars of the decision

16:39

and saying. What? The heck

16:41

am I living for? When am I

16:43

saving for what is my life all

16:45

about? because there's something that someone's gonna

16:47

have to say about everything that you

16:49

do. And. There's not a single

16:51

decision you can make that can't be

16:53

framed by some perspective as being irresponsible.

16:56

But. That's not what you want to make your decisions from.

16:59

Monaco. Applaud you for asking some

17:01

intentional questions about these tradeoffs, am

17:03

I willing to trade this money

17:05

for that's and then if? What?

17:08

Am I going to get out of it?

17:10

And is that the best use of this

17:12

money? Not only is it worth it because

17:14

in a vacuum, sure, If you have an

17:16

abundance of money, any one of these things

17:19

would be worth it when you don't have

17:21

to consider everything else is going on in

17:23

your life. In fact, that you just had

17:25

one of these desires, it be really easy

17:27

for you to say Yes, I have the

17:29

money and so. Is. This the

17:31

best use of this money. and if the answer

17:33

is yes, great than I can make that decision.

17:35

But here it's There's a tradeoff. Here.

17:37

either trading your i'd surgery for the tattoo

17:40

or you're trading your tattoo for the eye

17:42

surgery or maybe you're willing to trade off

17:44

both because there's some other ways in which

17:47

you like to use your money you'd like

17:49

to spend it elsewhere you'd like to save

17:51

it for a future maybe it's you want

17:53

to create a a larger safety net because

17:56

you associate that with freedom as well monica

17:58

of this new copy of our

18:00

book, Everything That Remains, this

18:03

year is the 10th anniversary of Everything

18:05

That Remains. And really it's a book

18:07

about the difficult trade-offs that Ryan and

18:10

I made back in the corporate world,

18:12

letting go of the corporate world,

18:15

trading off the corporate world for

18:17

a piece of our freedom. And

18:20

there's a lot of trade-offs there.

18:22

We traded money, we traded status,

18:24

we traded material possessions, we traded

18:27

lifestyle because something else, this freedom,

18:29

this creativity, this other life

18:32

was worth the trade-off for

18:34

us. I won a movie

18:36

with you and Ryan, a sci-fi movie, and it'll

18:38

be like a twist on Trading Places. You ever

18:40

seen that movie, Eddie Murphy? And

18:43

it'll be like you and Ryan traveling

18:46

back in time and trading places with

18:48

your past selves. And the person you

18:50

are now has to be the corporate

18:52

sales manager, and the corporate sales Josh

18:54

has to come on this podcast. Ooh.

18:58

Oh, that'd be so good. Although the problem would be, I'd

19:00

come on the podcast and I'd just be filled with initialisms

19:04

and acronyms and corporate jargon.

19:06

Yeah, but you'd have to deal with me and Bama

19:08

and that would be comedy all day. Speaking

19:13

of Bama, before we get back to our

19:15

callers, Malabama, what time is it? You know

19:17

what time it is. It's time for the

19:19

lightning round where we answer the Patreon community

19:21

chats question of the week. Yes, indeed. Now

19:24

during the lightning round, we each have 60 seconds

19:26

to answer your question with

19:28

a short, shareable, minimal maxim.

19:31

You can find this episode's

19:33

maxims in the show notes

19:35

at theminimalists.com/podcast and every minimal

19:37

maxim ever. At minimalmaxims.com,

19:40

we'll also deliver our weekly

19:42

show notes directly to your

19:44

inbox, including five new maxims

19:46

every Monday for free if

19:48

you sign up for our

19:51

email newsletter at theminimalists.email. All

19:53

those links you can find in the show notes

19:56

as well. We'll never send you spam or junk

19:58

or advertisements if you're on our newsletter. but we

20:00

will start your week with a dose

20:02

of simplicity. Malabama, what is

20:05

the question of the week this week? What's

20:07

your favorite pleasure that money can't

20:09

buy? I think you came

20:11

up with this one. What's your favorite

20:14

pleasure that money can't buy? Almost

20:16

the inverse of Monica's question a moment

20:18

ago. So she's buying something

20:20

that will give her a pleasant feeling afterward,

20:23

ideally. Even the tattoo, it might be

20:26

really unpleasant, which is another

20:28

lesson, right? Sometimes we have to go through

20:30

something unpleasant to get the outcome that we

20:32

want. I thought maybe we would

20:34

read a few of our patrons' comments

20:36

here. Michael, Alexis, and several

20:38

others had this to say, Bama. Time

20:41

with loved ones. This idea of time

20:43

came up again and again and again,

20:45

and I think both of our pithy

20:47

answers have a bit to do with

20:50

time. You wanna give

20:52

us something pithy, T.K. Coleman? Yeah, my pithy

20:54

is money saves time, but it can't buy

20:57

the courage to be present. Now I

20:59

say courage to be present because I

21:02

believe that money can buy you a day off. If

21:04

you don't have money, usually what you have to do

21:06

in order to get money is you have to sell

21:08

your time. You have to maybe

21:10

hire yourself out and give up your time to

21:12

go create some value for someone who will then

21:14

pay you. Or you may have to sell your

21:17

time in the form of devoting yourself to acquiring

21:19

knowledge that you can then sell without giving up

21:21

your time. So if you

21:23

have money, then you can literally buy

21:25

yourself a day off. Here's a day

21:27

where I don't have to say yes to anyone because I have

21:29

the money to take the day off. But when you have that

21:32

day off, do you have the

21:34

ability to relax, to be

21:36

present, to say no to people,

21:38

to look within? And if

21:40

you don't, are you willing to learn? Are

21:43

you willing to go through the discomfort

21:45

and the tension of looking within that

21:47

deep ocean of yourself and

21:50

waiting until the waters become still, confronting

21:52

what is within you? That's incredibly difficult to

21:54

do. There are many people with a lot

21:57

of money and who don't have busy lives.

21:59

And the moment they... get the slightest whiff

22:01

of that free time. They

22:03

immediately find some way to clutter it up with

22:06

busyness to avoid the confrontation with the void. And

22:08

so one thing that money can't buy is the

22:10

courage to sit alone in a room with yourself

22:13

to be present and to ask, what

22:15

can you teach me? I'm here. I'm willing

22:17

to listen. And in a way, what you're talking

22:19

about is what am I going to do with this freedom?

22:22

Because if I've lent out my time to

22:24

so many other people, and we do it

22:26

in a bunch of ways, and not just

22:28

with having a job, there's nothing wrong with

22:31

having a job, but we lend out our

22:33

time to telemarketers. A telemarketer called me the

22:35

other day, and I played

22:37

a fun little cat and mouse game with

22:40

them just because I dislike telemarketers. Do you

22:42

really do this? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's

22:45

go back to some of the pithy here, because I love

22:47

what you were talking about, TK, with money. When

22:49

you said money saves time, but it

22:51

can't buy the courage to be present,

22:54

I would just append that by saying buying a

22:56

Rolex will not buy you more time. We

22:59

have a lot of people in the

23:01

Patreon community chat talking about time, and

23:03

Amy said, time outside. And

23:05

a lot of the things that people

23:07

really want to experience, a lot of

23:09

the pleasures that money can't buy, a

23:12

lot of it has to do with time,

23:14

even if it's not directly related to time.

23:17

And the problem is, we often buy things

23:19

that we think are going to make us

23:21

happy, like a Rolex, but buying a Rolex

23:23

doesn't buy you more time. In fact, it

23:26

might extract some time from your life.

23:28

If a Rolex is thousands of dollars, what

23:30

do I have to do to get those thousands

23:32

of dollars? Maybe I have to part with my

23:34

time. Even if I'm buying a cup of coffee

23:36

at the coffee shop across the street and it's

23:39

$5, is this

23:41

worth $5 of my time? Is

23:45

another way to think about it. Not $5 of currency, but

23:47

what did it take to get these $5? Am

23:50

I willing to part with that, even though I have

23:53

that money in my checking account? Yeah,

23:55

I always find money and time discussions

23:57

interesting. I think money certainly can't buy

23:59

time already. already spent, but it certainly

24:02

can buy time not yet spent, right?

24:05

You can pay $20 for a parking space and

24:07

that can save you an hour of driving around

24:09

trying to find a good park, right? Or

24:12

you can have the money to take a day off

24:14

or take a vacation and that can save you the

24:16

time you would have spent having to do something for

24:18

the money. So there is a sense

24:20

in which you can save time, but you can't

24:22

recover it. You can't get your 20s back. You

24:24

can't get watching your kids grow up back. You

24:26

know, you can't get your youth

24:29

back or whatever. You can't get your health back and

24:31

money certainly does have those limitations. But

24:35

I like what you had to say about being present,

24:37

man. The willingness to be present, the courage to be

24:39

present, all of that is one of the

24:41

Swedish joys. And it's the foundation for all

24:43

other forms of joy because what can you

24:45

possibly enjoy if you're not able to be present

24:47

with it? What this

24:49

question initially birthed was another maxim from

24:52

you when you said that money buys

24:54

presents not presents. And

24:57

quite often, yeah, money will buy physical things, but it's

24:59

not going to buy you what you want. It's

25:02

not going to buy you the time behind it. And

25:04

then you're adding on something here. You

25:06

buy an actual gift for someone a present. You

25:09

know what? If they don't like

25:11

it, they can return it. But if

25:13

I waste your time, there's no refund

25:16

for wasted time. There's no refund for

25:18

misspent time. And I think that keeps

25:20

coming up again and again. Several other

25:22

patrons said what they would

25:25

do. What's your favorite pleasure that money

25:27

can't buy? Here's what Rin said. Feeling

25:30

the sun on my skin. And

25:32

then Ashley said thunderstorms. And

25:34

then there was another one. Fadila said the sound

25:37

of rain and the

25:40

petrichor that follows. That might be our

25:42

word of the week. Petrichor. People are

25:44

often asking me to do a vocabulary

25:46

word of the week. Petrichor, that's like

25:48

the feeling or the smell of rain.

25:50

It's like the smell of fresh rain.

25:53

Okay. Yeah. What's

25:55

going on after the

25:57

rain? And so what these people

25:59

were talking about... about here, whether it is

26:01

Rin saying the sun on my skin, and

26:03

you contrast that with Ashley wants the thunderstorms.

26:06

And you don't want all of these things all of

26:08

the time, right? It

26:11

was just raining all the time, well then

26:13

you'd be in Kachikan, Alaska, and

26:15

you would probably get tired of the rain. But

26:18

the variety, we have day because we have

26:20

night. If we didn't have night, we wouldn't

26:23

call it day, we would just call

26:25

it being, right? If we had

26:27

only sun all the time, we wouldn't really have a

26:30

way to describe when it is

26:32

overcast outside, right? And

26:35

so I think quite often, many of

26:37

the pleasures that these people are talking

26:39

about has to do with how it

26:42

lives in contrast with the rest

26:44

of our lives. In fact, Jessica

26:46

and Kristin both said the same

26:48

thing. A mid-afternoon nap. I took

26:50

one of those yesterday, a mid-afternoon

26:52

nap, and it was outstanding. So

26:54

I wouldn't want to take a mid-afternoon nap 24 hours a day,

26:56

right? Then I

26:59

would just be dead. And

27:01

so it is in contrast to the

27:03

waking hours. The mid-afternoon

27:05

nap is so compelling because it

27:08

gives me the energy then to

27:10

tackle the rest

27:13

of the day, to embrace the rest of the day,

27:15

to enjoy the rest of the day. Hey

27:17

man, we both gave maxims and kind

27:19

of philosophically reflected on the concept. But

27:21

what's your direct answer to this question that

27:23

other people are answering? What is your favorite

27:25

pleasure that money can buy? I

27:28

was going to say sex, but we know that

27:30

money can buy that for sure. Evan. Hey,

27:34

I'm not advocating for that, but

27:37

I know the commentors would be like,

27:39

actually Josh, you know that... Yeah,

27:42

it can buy depending

27:44

on how you define it, right? It can

27:46

buy intercourse, not intimacy. Yes, absolutely. Well, that's

27:48

a great way to put it, right? And

27:51

so for me, intimacy is one

27:53

of those things, but not just sexual

27:56

intimacy, right? But going

27:58

on a walk with my wife. wife,

28:01

there's an intimacy that we share there.

28:04

We have a partially kid-free summer this

28:06

summer, and so we have more time

28:08

together where it is just the two

28:10

of us, and I can't buy

28:12

that with money. I

28:14

can't buy that level of

28:16

intimacy. Intimacy also requires this

28:20

uninterrupted being, this presence, right?

28:22

We've all been with someone

28:24

before, whether it's at dinner

28:26

or we're at a movie,

28:28

and you see the couple

28:30

or you see the other person you're with or

28:32

you see it in yourself, although it's much harder

28:34

to see in yourself, you just pick up the

28:37

phone, you're responding to things that are going on

28:39

inside the glowing screen, and

28:41

you're not paying attention to that real, living, breathing

28:43

human being that you love that's right there in

28:45

front of you. When I

28:47

put my phone on a desk, so if I, you

28:50

and I are at a podcast desk right

28:52

now in the studio here, if I were

28:54

to put my phone right in between us,

28:56

it almost puts up this invisible smoke screen

28:58

and it says, TK, you're the

29:00

most important thing to me unless

29:03

anyone else decides to interrupt us right

29:05

now. And

29:09

so what is, if I

29:11

go back to this question, what

29:13

is your favorite pleasure that money

29:15

can't buy? Uninterrupted intimacy. Ooh, that's

29:18

good. I think mine is related, just I'll

29:20

express maybe in more colloquial

29:23

terms or less romantic terms. And it's that

29:25

opportunity to connect with people like you ever

29:27

just taken a walk and someone is walking

29:29

their dog and maybe it's like a cute

29:31

little puppy that's just so excited to see

29:33

you. You've never seen this puppy or this

29:35

person in your life, but that puppy is

29:37

just trying to get at you and

29:40

you receive the puppy and the person who owns the

29:43

dog lets the puppy come at you and that puppy

29:45

just jumps all over you and just gives you all

29:47

that love and it just feels so

29:49

good. You love on the puppy, the puppy loves

29:51

you. And yet, at a deeper level, you know

29:53

it's about more than just you and the puppy. It's about you

29:55

and that human being because we live in a world where

29:57

it's just a human being. And that's what we do. It's

30:00

like you and I don't know each other,

30:02

fellow human. And I don't know what you're up to. You

30:04

don't know what I'm up to. I don't know if I

30:06

can trust you. You don't know if I can trust me.

30:08

I'm wounded and you're wounded. And so it's kind of hard

30:10

for us to look each other in the eye so directly

30:13

and say, hello, how

30:15

are you? I wish you well. But your

30:17

puppy is kind of like a little bridge between us.

30:19

And in this moment where you're letting me play with

30:21

the puppy and I'm playing with the puppy, you

30:23

and I are also communicating indirectly as well.

30:26

We're saying, I see each other and

30:28

I feel safe connecting with you in this way. It's

30:30

good to see you and it's good to be seen.

30:32

Those are the kinds of moments in life, whether a

30:34

baby does that for us or a puppy does it

30:37

for us, where it's just a reminder, like, this

30:39

is what life is all about. Being

30:41

able to connect with one another without

30:44

needing to guard ourselves. Oh,

30:48

that's good. Being able

30:50

to connect without putting

30:52

up the guards, it actually derail

30:55

the connection or disconnect us.

30:59

The connection, which is so easy to do.

31:01

I find that if I go

31:03

to some sort of event where

31:05

it is mixed with parents and

31:07

children, it's so much easier for

31:10

me to connect with the children. I wonder if

31:12

anyone else listening to this has that experience. You

31:14

can let us know in the

31:16

comments. But connecting, like, because there

31:18

is no decorous

31:21

dance that is required like it is with

31:23

the adults. So I don't walk up to

31:25

a kid and say, Soho, what

31:27

do you do? You

31:29

go, what are you doing? Yes, yes. And

31:31

so what do you do is like this

31:33

philosophical question. And we all know what you

31:36

mean. Like, how do you earn a living,

31:38

right? So you can try to buy back

31:40

the time that you've lost. But

31:42

with a kid, it's like, what is going

31:44

on right here in front of you right

31:46

now? It's so much easier to connect because

31:48

we don't have those barriers up in front

31:51

of us that we

31:53

learn to place in front of us

31:56

as almost like this protection mechanism after

31:58

we've been hurt by some. or

32:00

we've lost something or experienced grief in some

32:03

way and all these barriers get built up

32:05

and then what we do with small talk

32:07

is try to find Subtle ways to get

32:09

through all of these barriers that each of

32:11

these adult humans has built Yeah, you're walking

32:13

down the street in LA and some brother

32:15

says you hey, man, you smell kind of

32:17

good It's like wait, where are you coming

32:19

from man? You're trying to sell me something.

32:22

What do you want? What's going on? Right,

32:24

but but a little puppy's like The

32:30

defenses are down right? Yeah. Yeah pure connection Well,

32:38

sometimes when someone has a dog and they

32:40

don't have that dog under control that that

32:42

can that can put up the defense Right.

32:44

Yeah, like I'm walking through where I live

32:46

up in Oh hi There's like this metal

32:48

land these this nature path and quite often

32:50

they're like really cute dogs really well behaved

32:52

But then sometimes there's one that like the

32:54

owners just can't control on the

32:56

leash and it's like Lunging at you and

32:59

and I this happened to me just the other day

33:01

and so I said, oh, no Thank you Like the

33:03

dog was trying to get up on me and the

33:05

owner looked like almost offended that I didn't want the

33:07

dog It was a giant dog tackling

33:10

me on the trail and

33:12

just said no thank you and I

33:14

wasn't offended that they were offended but

33:18

Yeah, sometimes we need permission or not

33:20

sometimes we always need permission before we

33:22

can put our hands on Someone

33:24

else a few other things

33:27

that people people answer this question What's

33:29

your favorite pleasure that money can't buy

33:31

Donnell said this writing poetry and prose

33:33

and in summer said making something

33:36

in the studio with fabric? There's this

33:38

element and this came up a few times

33:40

in the patreon community chats with

33:42

not just Donnell and summer But there's this

33:45

this idea of that money can't buy

33:47

creativity But sometimes we we get

33:49

lost we forget we conflate the

33:52

instruments of creativity as though I

33:54

am being creative If I just had

33:56

the right computer, then I could be the

33:58

designer. I've always wanted to be. If I

34:01

had the right pen, then I could

34:03

be the writer that I always want to

34:05

be. If I had the right software program,

34:07

I could be the editor that I've always

34:09

wanted to be. If I have all of

34:11

the instruments that I see the people whom

34:13

I aspire to be like, if I were

34:16

to acquire their instruments, I will somehow, via

34:18

osmosis, become just like those creative people. And

34:20

it's true that there's nothing wrong with those

34:22

instruments. Those tools can really help us, right?

34:24

But you don't need a specific pen to

34:26

be a writer. There are a bunch of

34:28

different ways. I was actually just joking with my

34:31

wife yesterday. She said, what are we doing this morning?

34:33

I said, oh, I was just writing. I said, well,

34:35

actually I was typing. I don't really write that much

34:37

anymore. And so maybe I'm not a writer. Maybe I'm

34:39

just a typer, right? But when I say I'm a

34:42

writer, we know what I mean. But I'm not actually

34:44

interested in the label of being a writer. I'm much

34:46

more interested in the creative act itself. Oh,

34:49

very interesting. You know, it's

34:51

funny for me just because

34:53

the types of struggles I faced in my

34:55

life, I've spent most of my life being

34:57

almost 100% internal, meaning like

35:00

not thinking about success, success is having anything

35:02

to do with the circumstances and conditions. But

35:04

it's all about my work ethic. It's all

35:06

about my character. It's all about my mindset.

35:08

It's all about the way I treat people.

35:10

It's all about the amount of self-respect that

35:13

I have, because I've just had to push

35:15

past circumstances that were way, way, way lower

35:17

than my ideals. And that was necessary to

35:19

get through them. And I'm actually coming out

35:21

on the other side of that where I'm

35:23

appreciating the external forms of support that

35:26

are necessary to compliment that success. Like,

35:28

hey, look, I got the mindset. I

35:30

got the work ethic. I got the attitude. I'm

35:32

treating myself well, but you know what? I

35:35

actually need a certain kind of physical space

35:37

to be in in order for me to

35:39

concentrate and be productive in the way that

35:41

I need to be. I actually do need

35:43

a certain kind of tool here in order

35:46

to be able to produce quality work. And

35:49

I think the lesson here or

35:51

the balance here isn't that money

35:53

can't buy you access to things that

35:56

significantly enhance your ability to be creative

35:58

and constructive, but rather never

36:00

underestimate our capacity to

36:03

make ourselves miserable even with the best

36:05

of tools at our disposal. Yes, and

36:07

in fact those tools can get in

36:09

the way because I thought this

36:11

new computer was going to make me a better

36:14

designer. Or I thought the software

36:16

program was going to make me finish

36:18

my book. But of course

36:20

it doesn't. Those things do enhance, as

36:23

TK says, enhance the experience of creating.

36:25

It's just like when I think about

36:27

being mindful or meditative or in the

36:29

moment. It is possible to be present

36:32

in Times Square. It's

36:34

more difficult there because there's so much

36:36

noise, so many distractions. But

36:39

there are masters of living, the Oshos of

36:41

the world, who I think would be just

36:43

as present in Times Square as they would

36:46

in some sort of sanctuary somewhere. But the

36:48

inverse of that is also true. It's

36:51

possible to be just as living

36:53

stuck in the past, clinging

36:56

to the nostalgia of yesteryear

36:58

in a sanctuary. In fact, quite often what

37:01

happens, I remember the first time I did

37:03

a float tank, which is a type of

37:05

sanctuary in a way, a sensory

37:07

deprivation tank. What

37:10

you learn is, oh, it's way more

37:12

chaotic up here in my head than

37:14

I ever realized because it was numbed

37:16

by all of the noise in my

37:19

everyday life. And when you take away

37:21

all of that noise, all that's left

37:23

is the chaos that's going on inside

37:25

me. Let us know what

37:27

your favorite pleasure that money can't buy

37:29

is. You can comment on Patreon in

37:31

the community chats over there.

37:35

We're just getting started, TK, in Alabama. We have oodles of

37:37

callers to talk to. But first,

37:39

real quick for right here, right now, here's

37:41

one thing that's going on in the life

37:43

of the minimalist, the end of everything. That's

37:47

right. It's the end of everything. Well,

37:51

the minimalist everything tour, that is. The

37:53

minimalist everything tour 2024 ends on July 19th with one more

37:56

stop in San Francisco. Francisco,

38:00

California. There are still a few free

38:02

tickets left on our website. We hope

38:04

to see you there. Side

38:06

note, you can listen to every event

38:08

from that tour and previous tours if

38:11

you subscribe to the true fan tier

38:13

on our Patreon. All right, Malabam, what

38:15

else you got for us? Here's a minimalist insight from

38:17

one of our listeners. Hi

38:20

guys, this is Tammy from

38:22

Thompson Station, Tennessee, a proud

38:24

Patreon subscriber. About

38:27

10 years ago, I discovered

38:29

Dolly Parton's Imagination Library. She

38:33

provides three books to children up to

38:35

age 5 worldwide. One

38:38

book will be mailed to your child

38:41

every month. In honor of

38:43

her daddy, it became her mission to

38:45

inspire in kids the love of reading.

38:48

Check out the website, imaginationlibrary.com,

38:50

to see if it's available

38:53

in your area. Thanks

38:55

guys in Malabam for all that you

38:58

do. Bye. Tammy,

39:01

thank you so much for that imaginative

39:03

tip. For anyone else who has a

39:05

listener tip or insight about this episode

39:08

or any other episode, leave a

39:10

comment on Patreon or YouTube or better

39:12

yet, send a voice memo to

39:14

podcast at theminimalists.com so we can feature

39:16

your lovely voice on the show. All

39:19

right, TK, that is the first 37.9% of episode 447.

39:25

We'll see you all on Patreon for the

39:27

full maximal edition, which includes answers to a

39:29

bunch more questions. Questions like, if everyone is

39:32

wearing logos, doesn't it call more

39:34

attention to your clothes if you're a minimalist who

39:37

refuses to wear logos? How

39:39

can I turn my smartphone

39:42

into a simple distraction-free device?

39:45

How do I decide whether I should

39:47

get rid of a sentimental item or

39:49

just keep it? Plus a million

39:51

more questions and simple living segments over

39:54

on The Minimalist Private Podcast. We

39:56

also have an outstanding home tour from

39:58

one of our listeners this week on

40:00

Patreon. Patreon, visit patreon.com/The Minimalists or click

40:02

the link down in the description to

40:05

subscribe and get your personal link so

40:07

that our weekly maximal episodes play in

40:09

your favorite podcast app. You also gain

40:11

access to all of our podcast archives

40:13

all the way back to episode 001.

40:18

By the way, Patreon is now offering free

40:20

trials, so if you'd like to test drive

40:22

our private podcast, you can join for seven

40:24

days for free. And that is

40:26

our minimal episode for today. If you leave

40:28

here with just one message, let

40:30

it be this. Love people

40:33

and use things because

40:36

the opposite never works. Thanks

40:39

for listening, y'all. We'll see you next time.

40:41

Peace. Every

40:43

little thing you think that

40:46

you need. Every

40:48

little thing you think

40:50

that you need. Every

40:53

little thing that you see in

40:55

your greed. Every little thing that

40:57

you see in your greed.