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Eric Malinsky spent over a decade

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working as a public radio reporter

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and producer. He uses those skills

1:00

to create thoughtful, sound rich episodes

1:03

about science fiction and other fantasy

1:05

genres. Eric talks with

1:07

novelists, screenwriters, comic book creators,

1:09

filmmakers, game designers, and fans

1:11

about how they craft their

1:13

worlds, why we suspend our

1:15

disbelief, and what happens if the spell

1:18

is broken. You can subscribe

1:20

to Imaginary Worlds wherever you get your

1:22

podcasts. Welcome

1:25

to the Moth podcast. I'm

1:27

Edgar Ruiz Jr., manager of the community

1:29

engagement program at the Moth. And

1:32

I'm Brandon Grant Walker, director of marketing at the

1:34

Moth. And we're your hosts for

1:36

this episode. As for what this

1:38

episode's about, well... That's

1:45

right. In honor of May the 4th,

1:47

this episode is all about Star Wars.

1:50

One of the most influential and resonant narratives

1:52

of the past century. far,

2:00

far away. Brandon and I are

2:03

huge Star Wars fans. It's

2:06

why we're hosting this episode. But even

2:08

if you don't know how to pronounce

2:10

Baby Yoda's real name, or who shot

2:12

first, we think you'll get a lot

2:14

out of these stories. They may be

2:16

about Star Wars, but their appeal is

2:18

intergalactic. First up is Dane Wilburn.

2:20

She told this at a Dayton, Ohio main

2:23

stage where she also hosted the show. Here's

2:25

Dane, live at the month. I

2:33

was born in Macon, Georgia

2:35

and raised in Detroit. So

2:38

I have this weird combination of Southern

2:40

and Midwestern. I'm Midwestern to the point

2:42

that I drove here from Detroit because

2:44

it seems senseless to take a plane

2:47

for under a four hour drive. They're

2:54

like, we're going to get you a plane ticket. I'm like, nah,

2:56

it's under 12 hours. It's drivable. And

3:01

I have a tendency also to

3:03

be, which I think is Midwestern,

3:05

to be very punctual. I have a tendency to

3:07

show up an hour ahead of things. I

3:10

get laughed at a lot. Even when I

3:13

fly, I show up to the airport two hours

3:15

before boarding because I'm not going to be one.

3:17

Because basically what I do is get popcorn and

3:19

watch other people run to their

3:22

flight. Now,

3:24

I want to say I get this

3:27

because of living in Detroit and being

3:29

Midwest. And that's not true. I get it

3:31

from my father. And I want to say

3:33

that I get it from my father because he's punctual, but

3:35

that wasn't true either. My dad

3:37

had a tendency to be late

3:41

for some things, but the biggest thing he was

3:43

late for was always movies. He always

3:45

felt that you didn't need to see

3:48

things like the previews or

3:50

the opening credits. Like he figured,

3:52

you know, if we get real late, we'll just stay

3:55

at the movie and wait till it starts over and

3:57

catch The beginning again. My

4:02

mother wasn't a fan of going to the

4:04

movies with him because of these issues and

4:06

this brand new movie came out when I

4:08

was a little kid and my mother say

4:11

it I'm not going cause I don't want

4:13

to go to the movies with you and

4:15

my death of I'll go by myself as

4:17

she says us, you'll take the baby with

4:19

you. Because that's what.

4:21

Why do you know you're not gonna go

4:23

to the movies by yourself? Are we have

4:25

children? Are you insane? So I pack off

4:27

with my dad and we go see Star

4:30

Wars. Now.

4:34

My. Father was late for

4:37

the movie when we left

4:39

the house. So

4:42

by the time we bought our

4:44

tickets and he got in an

4:46

argument with the fountain drink do

4:48

about how they only had new

4:51

coke. And

4:53

he wanted to drink original code which is

4:55

not about do problem but my dad didn't

4:58

see it that way as he got into

5:00

a fight with the popcorn girl because they

5:02

didn't have popcorn salt and some of you

5:04

know what? saw the as of those who

5:07

don't on I get into it's ah it's

5:09

traumatic is triggering but I'm. I

5:12

just want to tell you we were

5:14

super late so we walked into the

5:16

movies where the fight scenes are already

5:18

happening. And I

5:20

as a little kids, decided

5:22

that this was in a

5:24

movie. it was a documentary.

5:26

I didn't. Really have that same.

5:29

Yet that told me this is

5:31

real. This isn't real. So I

5:33

figured this is real and so

5:36

above our heads. In. The

5:38

sky. At. This

5:41

moment. Danger. Was

5:44

image. So.

5:47

I call home and I tried to

5:49

explain to my mother does my father's

5:51

Maginot that oh, we're in a galactic

5:53

battle for good. And.

5:58

as the we are are fighting

6:01

the number one villain of

6:04

all time, Darth

6:06

Vader. Now, I

6:09

didn't hear Darth. And

6:12

he was dark, so I figured

6:14

Darth Vader was what they meant. So my

6:16

mother's laughing at me because I'm calling him

6:19

Darth Vader and not Darth. And she's

6:21

going back and forth. She's like, this isn't real. This

6:24

is just a movie. Movies aren't real. This guy isn't

6:26

real. And I said, OK, I don't

6:28

believe you. He is real, and

6:30

I need to defend us. So

6:34

my request for my birthday was

6:36

a lightsaber. And

6:39

they had them everywhere because you'd see the

6:42

commercial come to this toy store and get a

6:44

lightsaber. Now, there are those of you who

6:46

think that I'm trying to get a toy. I

6:49

need you to understand that in my brain,

6:51

I was getting the only weapon that could

6:54

protect us from evil. And

6:56

I needed it because this

6:58

was real. Now,

7:01

my birthday happens to be the 1st of

7:03

November, which falls

7:06

directly after Halloween. So

7:09

we are in Northland Mall, which is a mall just

7:11

outside of Detroit in a little town called Southfield. It's

7:13

one of the first malls built in the country, by

7:15

the way. We are walking

7:17

down the hall and around

7:19

the corner in

7:23

movie quality costume,

7:27

coming in at 6'4". And

7:31

approximately 230, 240 pounds is

7:35

some dude 100% dressed as Darth Vader. My

7:43

mother has spent months explaining to me

7:45

that this guy isn't real. But

7:48

there he be. Now,

7:54

when you're little, all the synapses

7:56

aren't firing. Your Brain doesn't really

7:58

know how to breathe. Stream so

8:00

I couldn't pick up. I

8:03

didn't I didn't have doors

8:05

to begin with. I somehow

8:07

couldn't pull dark at that

8:09

moment. so. I just screamed.

8:12

The only thing as you get out was his.

8:21

My does what you did. She bust

8:23

out laughing. I'm like

8:25

the Fate of the World is that funny. I

8:29

am a member of a rebel alliance.

8:31

I must protect us So I dive

8:33

into the to restore go all the

8:35

way to the back wall. Grab a

8:37

lightsaber. To my disappointment, it turned

8:40

out to be a flashlight. Would

8:42

a plastic to. But

8:45

I figured this dude is still far

8:47

down the hall. He won't know. Like

8:50

that I want to do the stance on

8:52

one of the whole thing and he's going

8:54

to be one hundred percent people terrified that

8:56

age or older lightsaber. He's gonna go away.

8:58

That's my theory. So I

9:00

run out of the store with the least

9:02

two cashiers. The hang Me I get. To.

9:05

The. Door of the store and my

9:08

mother. Is. Stand in

9:10

their. Bold. As brass.

9:13

Said. He. Was

9:17

black vader. And

9:23

they're just ended up. And

9:26

there have been a good old time. And

9:29

I'm Stan And in the door. The Toy store.

9:32

With to cash years removing my

9:34

on purchase lightsaber for my hands

9:37

and I let it go. Because.

9:40

I knew. Two.

9:42

Things. One. My.

9:45

Mother was a member of the

9:47

Empire. Was

9:50

quite frankly didn't shock me that most. And

9:56

to I was gonna need a lot

9:58

more than a. Last night would

10:01

a tube On its sake, you. That

10:10

was same Wilburn, same as a storyteller,

10:12

a host of Dames Eclectic Brain Podcast,

10:14

and various live shows including the Martha

10:17

Main Stage. She's completed for

10:19

residencies for storytellers including at Seven Be

10:21

and Palmetto, Georgia and one with Air

10:23

Tries and All Men Miss Again. Dame.

10:26

Is also presented at the University of

10:28

Iowa and you Cla. She lives in

10:30

a state of possibilities and in Michigan.

10:34

So Brendan. How do you? We ran

10:36

into Stallworth. You. Know I can't

10:38

really remember. I'm pretty sure.

10:41

That. I watched like the first set of

10:43

movies somewhere and like my late teens

10:45

and honestly, like. Didn't. Really

10:47

care. Thought they were interesting but like didn't

10:49

really think they were for me arm and

10:51

it probably wasn't until about like. Maybe

10:54

eight or nine years ago when like rogue

10:56

one came out and really showed like a

10:58

different side of Star Wars and I wasn't

11:00

like jet eyes for word it was really

11:03

about like the every day kind of person

11:05

and then if I like really think about

11:07

it then you have like Disney one.or plus

11:09

coming onto the scene and like you get

11:12

the back catalogue of movies but like I'd

11:14

never watched Clone Wars before as I started

11:16

watching like the Clone Wars cartoons and like

11:19

they do so many great things and anna

11:21

may sound like the anneke and character is

11:23

just. Like so much more developed and you get

11:25

like a so going you see like all these

11:27

different worlds and. Honestly like than I

11:30

just like anything I could get my hands

11:32

on. and I went back and I watched

11:34

the original Trilogy. Him and I watched the

11:36

prequel trilogy and then obviously by then the

11:39

sequel trilogy is where our it really showed

11:41

you this world of so many different people

11:43

working together to like overcome evil and like

11:45

builds you know a better world for themselves

11:48

and I just I find it to be

11:50

really really inspiring. A lot of levels. But.

11:53

Yeah, I was probably really young and like

11:55

couldn't really grasp at but now I'm like

11:57

in at all the way. We. So

11:59

liquid. It you when was the first time you're

12:01

memorising Sours. Well. For some a last

12:03

year I was like a years old with my

12:06

i am an hour at a sleepover and I

12:08

didn't I may have been like boring and and

12:10

long and. And. Will be honest with

12:12

you. I loved vetoed of the July because of

12:14

the he works in. I chose the giveaway you

12:16

enjoy he put those puppets a man. I was

12:18

like an ass at Eleven releases of because I

12:20

love mine and I love these movies. I was

12:22

kind of like a positive thing and and it

12:24

wasn't until I was like. Eighteen. Nineteen

12:26

years old when the Phantom Menace came out

12:28

that I really fell in love with though

12:31

is that I know that's like a census

12:33

to stay. There are very brave to admit

12:35

that. but yeah library say was it was

12:37

my gateway into start ways like and then

12:40

I so happened to have like one of

12:42

these life teens and summers. And

12:44

Porto Rico with my dad. When we reconnected

12:46

I just remember we had like a similar

12:49

scene to the region of to Return of

12:51

the Dead. I had the end where he

12:53

says. You. Remove my helmet

12:55

and let me see you have my

12:57

own eyes and I was watching that

12:59

with my my girlfriend had that one

13:01

point and I just started bawling because

13:03

I had like the similar like a

13:05

similar scene with my dad in a

13:07

car in Puerto Rico where we like

13:09

crying and the most relate to going

13:11

at each other with like House with

13:13

the truth and he was like he

13:15

was see me for the first time

13:17

and when I was watching dislike i

13:19

broke down and I was like loud

13:22

as movies deeper then what is up.

13:24

In an when it really isn't in the confines of

13:26

them. and a lot of people like the Return of

13:28

the Dead of Night when I'm people actually which one

13:31

is your favorite of the oh geez I'm like would

13:33

Return of It's and I in yeah I mean I

13:35

think that's what's so. Great. About

13:37

Star Wars is that like on any

13:39

level you can connect with Ed and

13:42

see parallels unlike her own life and

13:44

like I loves. He's sharing about your

13:46

dad and that moment where you are

13:49

both like seeing each other so clearly

13:51

for the first time and like that's

13:53

why I love, like the stories and

13:55

this our they are all so different.

13:58

But. The way that. War is

14:01

unites people in unlocking

14:03

bear imagination and bringing.

14:07

People. Together and making people

14:09

people feel seen and heard

14:11

as like something that's very

14:13

very special. Mixed

14:16

up to San and Paul Simon told

14:18

the story at the Twin Cities Story

14:20

Slam where the theme of the night

14:22

was wonder you Santa allow that the

14:24

most. Little

14:32

black girl. Sun like.

14:34

Star Wars. That's

14:38

what I learned in the nineteen seventies as

14:40

going up in Phoenix, Arizona And lease if

14:42

you ask my grandma endless. She.

14:45

Said i sun like Star Wars but

14:47

if you as sir I also wasn't

14:49

supposed like this though. Music: I once

14:51

was real science fiction novels and I

14:53

definitely would not supposed to wear pants

14:55

only. Dresses. What?

15:00

I was supposed as he was, I supposed

15:02

to go to our best. The cost to

15:04

church very often says kind of a Bloomberg

15:07

that says synthetic hostile to us. All those

15:09

things is seen in movie so there's a

15:11

lot of frames and shouting said we want

15:13

to turn a lot more on Wednesdays and

15:16

Fridays and Sunday morning that turned into Sunday's

15:18

Afc the New that quite often Sunday evenings

15:20

and we have that cool past. It said

15:22

sell to the left and occasionally dance a

15:25

little bit and dumped somebody and some water.

15:30

That's what little black roses supposed to do.

15:32

We are also supposed to sit still has

15:35

he put me on a stool next to

15:37

our stole than the kids and as she

15:39

would take a hot home and straighten my

15:41

hair and then braided into these beautiful brave

15:44

quite often with little be that the bottom.

15:47

That's what she said little black holes are supposed

15:49

to do. Now

15:52

the person they disagreed with her. Was.

15:54

My mother who also happens to be blessed

15:56

in case. you're wondering My

16:01

mother, who also was

16:03

raising me in the 1970s along with

16:05

my grandmother, she had different opinions. And

16:07

a lot of those were very subversive

16:09

for the time. And she would

16:11

say things like, no, you're supposed to be able

16:13

to have your own identity. And I'm not saying

16:16

that she didn't believe that. And

16:18

she did think that as a young person it was

16:20

my job to be able to sit there and floss

16:22

them as a young person to be my own young

16:24

girl. But she was also doing it to

16:26

piss my grandmother off. Because

16:29

she and my grandmother did not get along.

16:32

I mean, it was some giant fight. And

16:34

I could think of multiple occasions where I

16:36

know my mother did some things just to

16:38

make grandmama ask. But

16:40

my mom, like I said, she was a subversive. She had

16:43

a really big dope-ass afro. It was amazing.

16:45

And she had all of those really cool

16:47

polyester jumpsuits, and they all had pant legs.

16:53

And then to make it even worse, in 1977, what my mom decided

16:55

to do for the first movie she ever took me to, she

16:58

took me to see Star Wars. Episode

17:03

four, A New Hope. And

17:06

as a young black girl that grew up

17:08

in the desert of Phoenix, Arizona, I remember

17:10

sitting there in awe and going, I can

17:12

relate. Because

17:15

I wanted to go on adventures. That's what I

17:17

wanted to do. So when I first saw Luke

17:19

Skywalker sitting there, and he went into it, and

17:21

he was talking to his family, and he starts

17:23

whining about how he wanted to go to Taki

17:25

Station to

17:27

pick up some power converters, I said, I

17:30

too want to go on that adventure. And

17:37

Princess Leia had beautiful braids, and

17:41

eventually wore pants. And

17:48

so instead of listening to pastors talk

17:50

about the end times and

17:52

talk about the power of the Holy Spirit, instead

17:55

I also got to listen to people talk about

17:57

Jedi's and using the Force and talking about the

17:59

Force. how you know what even if

18:01

you grew up on this desert planet you

18:03

can go on adventures and you might be

18:05

the one that saves this galaxy. And

18:09

I remember thinking that was a really lofty goal because I

18:11

was like five. I was

18:17

just trying to get my mom to leave

18:19

my hair alone that's pretty much it I

18:21

just was like okay and no more Barbies

18:23

I want Tonka trucks I just wanted that

18:25

but it was my first foyer into going

18:27

you're allowed to be different than what they

18:29

said you were supposed to do and

18:31

you were allowed to do something different than

18:34

what they said you should do and

18:37

it was really wonderful to have my mom who was

18:39

a hippie at the time that hippies were really cool

18:43

and to sit there cross-legged in the corner

18:45

of our living room while she sat around

18:47

with her political science major friends at Arizona

18:49

State University and it was just a giant

18:52

haze of weed and I

18:56

would just sit there cross-legged and read Isaac

18:58

Asimov and Lord of the Rings and all

19:00

of these books because

19:03

my mom was like it's okay for you

19:05

to do what you want to do not

19:07

what you should do. That

19:15

was Shannon Paul. Miss Shannon

19:17

uses her talents to care for her son and make

19:19

the lives of other people better. She

19:21

is a comedian, speaker, voice actor,

19:24

event MC and benefit auctioneer. She

19:27

has appeared on Nick Mom's Night Out,

19:29

Labs TV and can regularly be seen

19:31

bringing her wit, whimsy and pop culture

19:33

expertise to Twin City's radio and television.

19:36

Plus you can hear Miss Shannon on

19:38

her podcast called Beyar Geek.

19:41

If you'd like to see a photo of Shannon with one of

19:44

her lightsabers we'll have that on

19:46

our website just go to themov.org/extras.

19:50

So you know I have two younger nephews we don't

19:52

live in the same city so I don't get to

19:54

like have those moments where I can like have them

19:56

over and like watch a movie and like basically make

19:59

them Star Wars nerds. So like having kids

20:01

do you force your kids to watch Star Wars?

20:04

Do I force? Yes all the time like if

20:06

you go on my Disney Plus account like You

20:09

go on revenge of the Sith and it's gonna start

20:11

exactly Like you try to

20:13

take away from me like Immediately,

20:15

like oh all the good parts like I

20:18

you know, I try to get them into

20:20

it. I just want them I'm

20:22

not gonna force them into it. But um, I

20:25

think my daughter might be going down that route nice Down

20:28

that going down that geek route and

20:30

you have this really cute picture of you and your wife

20:34

And your your son right? Yes dressed up as

20:36

like baby Yoda before baby Yoda was a thing.

20:38

Yes. What's that about? I I have I've honestly

20:40

believed somebody from Disney saw this picture of my

20:43

son and was like no we didn't mean we

20:45

need to make this happen this was in 2016

20:47

it was his first Halloween and His

20:50

mother and I are huge Halloween fans. Like we

20:52

dress up a lot on

20:55

Halloween's and There was a

20:57

time where I didn't celebrate Halloween and then I it was like

20:59

four years I didn't and then I came back and I

21:01

was a Jedi for like three years straight Like

21:04

four years. I was a Jedi running on the village with

21:06

an FX lightsaber that I pinned I paid like $150 for

21:08

it Yeah, I haven't

21:10

done cosplay yet. I Wouldn't

21:13

say I do cosplay. I know

21:16

cosplayers right? Yo, they take on

21:18

it. That's that's true I

21:21

wait and made a Jedi outfit and

21:23

just because I was tall and I

21:25

couldn't see Like the

21:27

stuff that was selling on like yeah

21:29

Amazon. Yeah. Why do you think people

21:31

have a connection to Star Wars? I Think

21:35

there's so much to come it's like what's not

21:37

to connect with you know there's

21:39

a fantasy element to it, which

21:41

is intergalactic and gives

21:43

you hope for life

21:46

elsewhere and for our connection to that

21:48

life elsewhere, I think there is the

21:50

interpersonal aspect Of

21:52

it where you have people from all

21:55

different Areas of the

21:57

galaxy coming together on a common

21:59

common whether that causes good or evil.

22:01

I think there's still interesting stories told on

22:03

both sides of it. And obviously,

22:06

you know, Star Wars at

22:08

its core is also a story about

22:10

like family. And there's so much dimension

22:13

to that in the way that they've been able to sort of look

22:15

at the legacy that we

22:17

leave with family, right? For me, it's

22:19

like, what's not to connect with? I

22:21

think anybody can find something in

22:23

the Star Wars canon that they

22:26

can feel that connection to. So

22:29

for people who've never watched them always like start

22:31

anywhere. If you like cartoons, start

22:33

with rebels. If you like live

22:36

action, you know, start with the movies. If

22:39

you don't care about the Jedi's, start with

22:41

Andor. You know, like there's something for everyone

22:44

as sort of my sort of take on it.

22:46

What about you? I think we all like

22:48

see ourselves. We're like everybody, there's

22:50

different type of characters in the whole saga

22:52

and everybody has a little, everybody has just

22:55

represented in the movies. And

22:57

I think that's why people are so passionate

23:00

about their characters. It's such an emotional movie.

23:02

I think a lot of us, you know,

23:04

it reminds us of our childhood of many of us, you

23:06

know, and a lot of them, the

23:09

Star Wars is just one of those

23:11

important things. Like everybody remembers where they

23:13

first saw it. And I hope a

23:15

hundred years from now, people

23:17

are watching them. Oh, I think for sure.

23:19

I think they'll be watching it from

23:22

a galaxy far, far away. Our

23:26

final story is from Manuelito Wheeler. Manuelito

23:29

told us at a main stage in Arizona. Here's

23:32

Manuelito live at the main. Yat

23:37

ei Manuelito Wheeler yin shea sit

23:39

na jini nishlong yai itra chini

23:41

ei bushes chin. Tohe

23:44

dlini ei das sheche kiyaani

23:46

ei das shenela. So

23:49

I have just introduced myself in

23:51

Navajo and language,

23:53

language equals. culture.

24:02

So it's the

24:04

late 1990s and my

24:06

wife has gone to grad school and

24:08

she left me with my

24:10

our three-year-old son at the time and

24:13

so she started school and

24:15

she got an apartment and

24:18

Tempe. We had a small apartment. Then

24:20

I came down three four months later

24:23

and you know I had a

24:25

three month a three-year-old son and I

24:27

needed a job and I'd always found

24:29

myself in the museum world.

24:32

So where do I go to look

24:34

for work right away? The Herd Museum.

24:36

You may have heard of it. No pun intended.

24:40

I go apply for a

24:42

curatorial type job there and

24:44

do great on my interview. Think I have it

24:47

in the bag. Get a call. Sorry you didn't

24:49

get it. It wasn't that cold but you know

24:51

sorry I didn't get it but you know what?

24:53

The Herd's expanding and they

24:55

need some help in the carpenter

24:57

shop and I'm like okay

25:00

I need a job I'll take it and

25:02

so I go and I

25:04

get interviewed by the master

25:06

carpenter there and get the job.

25:10

So that's where I started and

25:13

it's interesting that things

25:16

that I've learned today about management

25:20

I really took a lot from that carpenter

25:22

job. Measure twice,

25:24

cut once. It's something

25:27

that'll take you a long ways. So

25:29

I was a carpenter's

25:32

assistant and then I moved up to the

25:34

exhibit installer and then I moved

25:36

up to the design

25:40

manager there at the Herd Museum. So

25:43

during my time there my wife has

25:46

finished her master's and now she's on to

25:48

her doctorate in English Lit and

25:50

all the while she's teaching

25:53

Navajo. So she's teaching Navajo to high

25:55

school students here in the Phoenix area

25:58

and we would always have this of how

26:00

do we make our language relevant? How

26:02

do we get these young people to connect to

26:05

our language? And this is

26:07

something that's very close

26:09

to both of us. It's close to

26:11

me because I'm not fluent in Navajo.

26:14

And that's a secret shame

26:16

that I carry with me. That's

26:18

a secret shame that people of my

26:20

generation, we carry with us. And

26:23

it's like there it is, something that's

26:25

part of us, and it's fading, and

26:28

we're trying to figure out how to

26:30

save it. So then we talk

26:32

about this idea around, we're

26:34

sitting around the dinner table, and

26:36

we talk about, man, it would be

26:38

really cool to have our own movies

26:41

in the Navajo language. And

26:43

so they're like, yeah, yeah, that would be cool. So

26:46

we toss some ideas around. She

26:49

maybe has said, like, we should do

26:51

the Steel Magnolias in Navajo. And

26:53

I thought, oh, eh. But

26:58

then I say, like, you know, think about it

27:00

for a while, like we should do

27:02

Star Wars. Maybe

27:04

you've heard of it. And, you know,

27:08

the reason I thought about Star Wars, and

27:10

it's stuck, is like it's such a timeless

27:12

classic. And there are

27:14

themes in the movie that I

27:16

really felt connected with

27:19

Navajo's slash Native people.

27:22

You know, this idea that the universe

27:25

is connected, and if we

27:27

do something that affects this side of

27:29

the universe, it's going to ultimately affect

27:31

this side of the universe. The idea

27:33

that there's good and there's bad, and

27:36

how we choose to use it is

27:38

up to us, but it will have its consequences.

27:41

So I really felt that those

27:43

ideals would really stick with Navajo

27:45

people, especially our traditional elders. So,

27:50

you know, this is a time when the internet was

27:52

brand new, and there was that

27:54

thing that was like AOL, and you've

27:56

got mail, and like computers

27:59

were huge. and you would clack away on them.

28:02

And so I get on the internet, I

28:04

find the script to Star Wars, episode four,

28:06

for those of you that need some clarification.

28:10

And it comes in the mail, and

28:12

I look at it, and I put it on the

28:14

shelf and forget about it for a few weeks. And

28:17

then, you know, I find it again, I look

28:19

through it, and there's my wife, and I tell

28:21

her, like, you think you could do these five

28:24

pages and translate them in Navajo?

28:27

And she's like, yeah. And I'm

28:29

thinking, I'm not going to get this back until a

28:31

few days or a week or so. She

28:34

comes back in like about 30 minutes, and

28:36

it's all typed up, and she hands me the

28:38

papers. And I'm like, whoa. That's

28:41

when I had the moment, that light bulb moment

28:43

of, this can be done.

28:45

This is real. So

28:47

again, I research Lucasfilm, of

28:49

course, and send emails. And

28:53

this process goes on for about

28:55

10 years of

28:57

going to different parts of

28:59

Lucasfilm. There's the emails, there's

29:01

800 numbers. And

29:05

I'm not a pest. I'm not emailing Lucasfilm

29:07

every day or anything like that. It's just

29:09

like a couple times a year.

29:13

So, you know, that goes on. And

29:15

then the position opens

29:17

up at the Navajo Nation Museum to

29:19

be the director. I apply. I

29:22

get it. We move our family back to

29:24

our beloved res. And

29:29

then the idea resurges again. And

29:31

I'm like, let me try this

29:33

other door. Send the email off again,

29:36

just thinking, oh, it'll never

29:38

get answered. And one

29:40

day, you know, the email pops

29:42

up. And it's from Michael

29:44

from Lucasfilm. And he popped into the email

29:46

and says, we've got your message. And

29:49

this is something that we're interested in. Can

29:51

we schedule a meeting? And I'm

29:54

like, oh my gosh. I'm in

29:56

my, I sit back in my chair in my office

29:58

and I'm like, whoa. And then of

30:00

course I call my wife first. I'm like, guess who

30:02

I got an email from? It's like, Lucasfilm, they're on.

30:04

They want to do this. The

30:07

stipulation though was that we would have

30:09

to fund the production. The Navajo Nation

30:11

would have to fund this production. So,

30:14

you know, I gather myself, I go up

30:16

to my boss, go up to his office,

30:18

and he's a cool guy. I've always gotten

30:20

along with him. And I

30:22

tell him, hey, this idea about Lucasfilm

30:25

and they're interested in putting Star Wars

30:27

in the Navajo language. And

30:29

it's going to be great, and it's going to be the

30:31

best thing to ever happen to the Navajo Nation. And

30:34

he's sitting there, and he's just

30:36

kind of nodding in his head. And

30:38

he's like, that's nice, Manny.

30:42

And it was there, I just

30:44

felt this sinking feeling. Like he

30:47

doesn't get it. He doesn't see the

30:50

vision that I have. And

30:52

so he's like, well, put a budget together, and we'll

30:54

see if we can find

30:57

some money for you to do this. And

30:59

of course, there are much bigger

31:02

problems on the Navajo Nation. People actually

31:04

live without running water and electricity there.

31:07

So my project was going to have to take

31:10

a back seat for a while. But

31:12

I'm not discouraged. I go to

31:14

various Navajo Nation programs. And

31:16

I'm like, great project. No, sorry.

31:19

Great project, we should do this.

31:21

No, sorry. Great project, let's do

31:23

this. No,

31:25

sorry. And so this is

31:27

over, I would say, six to eight

31:29

months. And at that time, it's something

31:31

that you feel like you have lightning

31:33

in a bottle, but nobody wants to

31:35

buy it. And then

31:37

finally, I come across another person that

31:39

I know. And he oversees the fares

31:42

for the Navajo Nation. And

31:44

he's like, I'm trying to look for something

31:47

that's entertaining, something that would bring a

31:49

lot of people together. Next time, I'll suggest

31:51

a moth. So

31:54

he's like, I need something that's going

31:57

to bring a lot of people together. And I'm like, I've

31:59

got to go. got a project for you. And

32:02

I explained my idea about putting Star

32:05

Wars, dubbing it Navajo into over a Star

32:07

Wars movie. And he's like, yeah, that sounds

32:09

pretty good. Like, let's do it.

32:11

And I'm like, oh, I'm like trying to be cool on

32:13

the inside. Okay.

32:17

So around this time when he

32:19

said yes, I would say would

32:21

be around February, maybe even March.

32:25

And he said,

32:28

I need something for the 4th of July fair.

32:30

And I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, I

32:32

can do it. And so

32:34

after he agrees, I rush

32:36

over to my team. And my team was

32:38

very small, you know, the team of about

32:40

10 people. And I'm like, okay, we got

32:42

to do this. And we got to make

32:44

this happen. And so everybody gets on board.

32:48

We had to put together a press release. And

32:50

we send it to Lucasfilm for their approval. They

32:52

approve it. And then it goes out to the

32:54

internet. And so, you know, we're doing

32:56

our stuff, getting ready. And then it

32:59

takes off like wildfire. My

33:01

phone starts ringing every day,

33:03

you know, at least every

33:05

hour, maybe. And it's the

33:08

BBC, it's NPR, it's CNN,

33:10

like all of these different

33:13

major media outlets. They

33:15

want to talk to me about how this project's

33:17

getting done, why it's getting done. And I couldn't

33:20

believe it. And I'm like, oh, and then I

33:23

get a call from my friend who lives in

33:25

Los Angeles. And he's like, Manny,

33:27

you're this, this story,

33:29

Navajo Star Wars is trending at number

33:31

seven on Yahoo. And I'm like, oh,

33:33

cool. What does that mean? And so

33:39

he's like, well, let me put it this

33:41

way. The Olympics are trending at number eight.

33:43

And I'm like, whoa. So that's when it

33:45

hit me. And we started to get rolling.

33:48

The people from Burbank, they came out, they

33:50

basically gave us a template and gave us

33:53

a tutorial on how how to get things

33:55

rolling. So we auditioned for Star Wars in

33:57

two days. And we had

33:59

over 400 people come

34:01

over those two days auditioning to be a

34:03

part of this and Then

34:06

we go in the translators started and

34:08

we had five translators in a room

34:10

and they translated the whole Script

34:12

in 36 hours and

34:15

then we go into production and

34:17

it was just one massive

34:21

Amazing blur, but

34:23

let me put it this way we started on

34:25

April 12th And

34:29

we premiered the movie on July

34:31

3rd So we

34:33

did everything in that

34:35

short amount of time which even by

34:38

Hollywood standards is an amazing thing and

34:40

one of the things I'm most proud

34:42

of is it was mostly done by

34:44

Navajo people We really got

34:47

together and made this happen So

34:50

here we are We

34:52

are Here

34:57

we are. We're premiering it

35:00

and guess what a rodeo

35:02

arena classic Navajo style And

35:05

it wasn't just a rodeo arena a

35:08

rodeo had actually happened less than an

35:10

hour prior to us doing

35:13

this premiere so imagine

35:16

if you will and here

35:18

comes a giant semi driving into

35:20

the rodeo arena and My

35:23

people they had built a movie screen

35:25

on the side of the semi truck

35:27

and it pulls into the middle of

35:29

the rodeo arena and people

35:32

the stands are filled there are

35:35

thousands of people over 2,000 people

35:37

were there and they're all Waiting

35:40

for this movie to start the

35:42

cast and crew is there people

35:44

from Burbank are there people from

35:46

Hollywood are there Everybody is excited to

35:48

see this and my

35:51

wife She's sitting right next to me and

35:53

then the lights go

35:55

down people applaud cheer kind

35:59

of And then it happens.

36:03

Those light blue, that

36:06

light blue font, a long

36:08

time ago in a galaxy far, far

36:10

away, it appears on

36:12

the screen, but it's in Navajo.

36:15

And then the crowd goes wild. They

36:17

cheer. And then the big

36:20

Star Wars logo blasts on screen.

36:23

Da, da. And the Star

36:25

Wars pop of the crowd goes wild again.

36:27

And it's almost like a frenzy. And

36:30

here comes the crawl. The crawl's in

36:33

Navajo. And my wife

36:35

and I are sitting there. And I

36:38

squeeze her hand. And we're just

36:40

sitting there. And she's crying. Peers

36:44

are coming down her eyes. I'm

36:46

not crying. Maybe

36:49

I was crying. It was a rodeo arena.

36:51

It's dusty and dust getting in

36:53

my eyes. So

36:58

then the crawl starts. And then here

37:00

comes the big Imperial cruiser descending upon

37:02

Princess Leia's ship. And

37:05

it goes C-3PO. C-3PO utters the

37:07

first words. And C-3PO is in

37:09

Navajo. And the crowd goes wild

37:12

again. And then here

37:14

comes Darth Vader. And he lifts up the

37:16

rebel. And he's like, where is the princess?

37:18

Where are the plans? And it's

37:21

Darth Vader's voice in

37:23

Navajo. And the crowd

37:25

is going crazy. And

37:28

I'm there, sitting there, squeezing my wife's hand. And

37:31

I'm thinking of our

37:34

grandmothers that have gone on to the

37:36

next world. I'm thinking of

37:38

our grandfathers that have gone on to the next

37:40

world. Our uncles that have gone on

37:42

to the next world. Our

37:44

aunts that have gone on to the next world. That

37:47

I wish they were here to see this.

37:51

This is our culture. It's

37:54

living on. This

37:56

is our culture. And

37:58

now there was. That

38:18

was Manolito Wheeler. Born and

38:21

raised in the Navajo Nation, Manolito is

38:23

currently working with his wife, Jennifer Jackson

38:25

Wheeler, as consultants for various networks and

38:28

studios, helping them incorporate native languages into

38:30

their content. Their company,

38:32

Black Beat Productions, specializes in dubbing,

38:34

translations, and cultural protocol involved in

38:37

film production and post-production. And

38:39

here's a clip of Star Wars, A New Hope,

38:41

translated into Navajo. This is the

38:44

scene where Obi-Wan and Luke see Princess Leia's

38:46

hologram for the first time. And

38:48

that's it for this episode. From

39:06

all of us here at the Moth, may the

39:08

Force be with you. This is the way. This

39:10

is the way. Edgar

39:13

Ruiz Jr. is the manager of the Community

39:15

Engagement Program and a StorySlim host at the

39:17

Moth. He is a comedian and storyteller who

39:20

has been featured in the Moth's latest book,

39:22

A Point of Beauty. True story

39:24

is about holding on and letting go.

39:26

If you're interested in reading more about

39:28

his Star Wars origin story, you can

39:30

visit edgarruizjr.com. Brandon

39:33

Grant Walker has always loved telling a good

39:35

story, and that passion informs his work as

39:37

director of marketing for the Moth. Brandon

39:40

is a diehard Marvel fan, a tequila

39:42

connoisseur, and proud uncle. He

39:46

has a Florida native, he gravitates towards the

39:48

sun and beach, but he has an equal

39:50

love for his adopted home of New York

39:52

City, the food, the culture, the skyline, and

39:54

the people. The rest of the Moth's leadership

39:56

team includes Sarah Haberman, Jennifer Hickson, Meg Bowles,

39:58

Kate Tellers, Marina Cluche, Suzanne Rust,

40:01

Brandon Grant Walker, Lee-Ann Gully, and

40:03

Aldi Qasa. The Moth would like

40:05

to thank its supporters and listeners.

40:08

Stories like these are made possible by

40:10

Community Giving. If you're not already a

40:12

member, please consider becoming one or making

40:14

a one-time donation today at themoth.org/give back.

40:17

All Moth stories are true, as remembered by

40:20

the storytellers. For more about

40:22

our podcast, information on pitching your own

40:24

story, and everything else, go to our

40:26

website, themoth.org. The

40:28

Moth podcast is presented by PRX, the

40:30

Public Radio Exchange, helping make

40:33

public radio more public at

40:35

prx.org. This

40:41

story is brought to you by Brooks Running

40:44

and is told by Beth Bradley. Should you

40:46

feel inspired by this story to move towards

40:48

your own finish line, remember that Brooks has

40:50

the gear to take you to that place

40:52

that makes you feel more alive. Let's

40:55

run there. Enjoy and happy trails.

40:58

I really wanted to cry, and

41:00

I really wanted to give up, but I

41:02

really didn't want to do both, and

41:05

I was running out of time to make up my mind. It

41:08

was 11.45 a.m., and

41:10

I was sitting on a huge pile of rocks located

41:13

about 13,700 feet above

41:15

sea level, and I was trying

41:17

to get to the 14,000-foot summit of the mountain that these

41:21

rocks belong to, but I only had

41:23

about 15 minutes left. And that's because when

41:26

you're at that type of elevation, it gets

41:28

really dangerous to be on the summit any

41:30

time after 12 p.m. in Colorado,

41:33

because there's lightning that rolls in pretty much

41:35

every afternoon in the mountains in the summer.

41:38

So I've been climbing straight up,

41:40

up, up this mountain for the past five

41:42

or six hours with two of

41:44

my best friends, Katie and Don, and

41:47

I only had about a quarter mile left

41:49

to go, but it might as well have

41:51

been 500 miles. Katie

41:54

and Don have both done a climb like this before,

41:56

but not me. Basically,

41:58

my whole life, the world's been telling me. I'm too fat

42:00

to try stuff like this. So I pretty much

42:02

believe that too. And even

42:04

though Katie and Don and I have been friends

42:06

for 20 years, I was still

42:09

nervous to be clearing with them because

42:11

I knew they'd be able to do it no problem

42:13

and I'd be the slow one. So

42:15

I had been training and doing

42:18

research for months. I

42:20

remember one article that I came across suggested

42:22

that you bring Kleenex with you because when

42:25

you're up at that elevation, the wind blows like crazy,

42:27

so your nose is probably gonna be running. So

42:29

I had not only heeded that advice, I'd

42:32

actually bought a neighboring Kleenex

42:34

C3 after a dollar because they're happy

42:36

to have motivational messages

42:38

printed on them like,

42:41

believe in yourself and seize this

42:44

moment. Nothing,

42:47

not even the Kleenexes had prepared me for

42:49

how I was feeling at 11.45, which was

42:51

just completely

42:54

depleted and essentially catatonic.

42:57

So Don and Katie had kind of

43:00

gone up ahead to sort of scope out the rest

43:02

of the trail. And I was just alone

43:04

with my thoughts, which had been pretty positive up

43:06

till then, like I felt like all

43:08

that preparation was paying off. But

43:11

now the disappointment was

43:13

just seeping in and the

43:15

worst part about that was how

43:17

familiar it tasted. Three

43:19

years before that, I had moved all the way out

43:21

to Seattle and even though I

43:23

had approached that move with the same kind

43:25

of exhaustive preparation as this climb,

43:27

I felt like I just couldn't get my life to

43:29

work out there, like it was just one

43:32

failure after another, like the job I

43:34

got turned out to be a bad

43:36

fit, I couldn't get acclimated. And

43:38

then the relationship that I was in held

43:41

apart in a really excruciating and heartbreaking way.

43:45

I had managed to get myself home, I'd

43:47

managed to move back to Colorado, but

43:49

I felt like I had gone on this like 2000 mile

43:51

detour just to end up

43:53

exactly where I started. So

43:56

I wanted it to mean something, I wanted being

43:58

home to mean something. He went all

44:00

the time. The kids. The.

44:03

Mouse and have dinner. For.

44:07

Myself wanting to know what are you

44:09

feel like to be a half against.

44:13

The. Higher I guess. They have a

44:15

all of that house. And later I

44:17

got the more pressure with varying down. At.

44:20

This point I notice that everyone else

44:22

I could see was very thin and lies

44:24

and they were the stepping up the rock

44:27

plate. the world's most annoying pack gazelle who.

44:31

On know. Me

44:34

like I was so scared and I was.

44:36

Overwhelmed. And are hating

44:38

my body for the issue. Fat in my

44:40

mind for being too weak. And

44:42

I just kept thinking to myself. Who

44:45

do I think I am even attempt this

44:47

Like who do I think I am even

44:49

tries. At

44:52

this point I can see that Katie with

44:54

had a background where I work and I

44:56

could tell from our eyes as she was

44:58

gonna say that it was too late and

45:01

we needed to turn around and ivy to

45:03

danger he going. For. The

45:05

peace to through. She

45:08

came in. And

45:11

looting that defeat

45:13

like settling. With.

45:16

Totally City said. We.

45:19

Should keep going. I know you can

45:21

do it. So.

45:25

Are there we're thing happens. Which is that

45:27

I realized I believed her. Even

45:30

though T and I have been friends

45:32

forever and she said stuff like that

45:34

to me before. This. Heard

45:37

it. Would.

45:44

Think. The answer then

45:46

that person is too fat he prays

45:48

for kept failing over and over. but

45:51

T was seeing someone else. To

45:53

see someone she love, Food been thrown

45:56

have not been kept going so. she

45:58

was seeing someone strong So

46:01

when Katie said that I

46:03

could do it, it sounded different than the

46:05

Kleenex. It sounded like

46:08

the truth. So

46:12

I decided not to give up, and

46:14

learning to cry became my only

46:16

motivation. And the

46:18

next 10 minutes were just like a blur

46:20

of pain and exhaustion. But basically,

46:23

right at noon, I gave myself over the

46:26

last stupid rock, and

46:28

I was surprised if I

46:30

messed off on the flat-pod ground of

46:32

the Senate. All of

46:34

those gazelle people were hanging

46:37

out and smiling and taking pictures. I

46:40

was the only person who was smiling

46:42

and openly weeping. I

46:46

was also hugging Katie and Don like crazy.

46:48

I was petting dogs, and

46:51

I was looking out of

46:53

the view, which was as incredible as anything

46:55

I've ever seen. I realized

46:57

I would also advise free Kleenex if you do

46:59

a climb like this, because

47:03

crying on top of a mountain is a

47:05

wonderful feeling, and I'd recommend it

47:07

to anyone, so it's good to be

47:09

prepared. I

47:12

keep chasing that feeling. I keep trying

47:14

to climb more mountains. Sometimes I get

47:16

to the top, and sometimes I don't. But

47:19

what I've noticed is that that one question

47:21

isn't coming into my head anymore. That question

47:23

of, who do I think I am? Now,

47:25

I know who I am. Support

47:33

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